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Venus is hotter than Mercury?!?



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29-07-2019 03:42
James___
★★★★★
(3169)
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:
As was said, why should Americans learn STEM subjects that keeps America running when immigrants can do that work?


We are immigrants! The whole country.

Americans can be accused of a lot. Workaholic nation being one, but you can't imply lazy too
Mutually exclusive

And you should allow yourself to be exploited and paid adequately for it. That's just any job.


Words anyone can write. You forget that I am an American and have worked with them. But people will hold my service connected hearing loss against me.
I'm not lazy though. Have plenty of schooling but discrimination is very difficult to overcome. I think people screw me over because they don't want to see someone willing to put out the effort that they won't.
And if you want to compare Venus to the Earth, learn some of the math and science that goes along with it. I don't think it's possible for a planet to have a weaker gravity than ours and still have 90 times the atmospheric pressure. That's just wrong and math might show something with Newton's Theory of Gravity that's been overlooked.
At 1 au earth has a gravity of 9.8 m/s. Atmospheric pressure 14.7
At. 72 au Venus has a gravity of 8.87 m/s. Atmos pressure 1,330+
It might be a simple explanation. It only takes a little work

If you can't figure it out, not why I should give you the answer.
Edited on 29-07-2019 03:44
29-07-2019 04:01
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7463)
tmiddles wrote:We are immigrants! The whole country.

I'm not an immigrant. I came into existence in the U.S.. I have never belonged to any other country.

... as well as my parents.

... as well as my grandparents.

... as well as my great grandparents.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-07-2019 04:04
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1790)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:We are immigrants! The whole country.

I'm not an immigrant. I came into existence in the U.S.. I have never belonged to any other country.

... as well as my parents.

... as well as my grandparents.

... as well as my great grandparents.


I was hatched. STILL in a fowl mood.


All the time the base and surface are at equal temperature as the equilibrium graduates to establish the temperature development--Pete Rogers
29-07-2019 04:14
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1790)
James___ wrote: I think people screw me over because they don't want to see someone willing to put out the effort that they won't.

Rich! New signature line.
29-07-2019 04:24
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
James___ wrote:I don't think it's possible for a planet to have a weaker gravity than ours and still have 90 times the atmospheric pressure.


James this comes back to if you believe the Russians, Japanese and US space agencies falsified date on the visits we made to Venus.

What do you think the margin of error is on an instrument used to measure atmospheric pressure directly? Do you think they would be off by 90 times, same error, every time?

What exactly do you think is going on if you don't trust measurements taken directly from the planet?

Granted it was just one pressure meter in one location on roughly 20 different missions but I think it's safe to assume Venus has a much much higher atmospheric pressure than earth does despite it's weaker gravity.

Do you dissagree?


29-07-2019 05:02
James___
★★★★★
(3169)
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:I don't think it's possible for a planet to have a weaker gravity than ours and still have 90 times the atmospheric pressure.


James this comes back to if you believe the Russians, Japanese and US space agencies falsified date on the visits we made to Venus.

What do you think the margin of error is on an instrument used to measure atmospheric pressure directly? Do you think they would be off by 90 times, same error, every time?

What exactly do you think is going on if you don't trust measurements taken directly from the planet?

Granted it was just one pressure meter in one location on roughly 20 different missions but I think it's safe to assume Venus has a much much higher atmospheric pressure than earth does despite it's weaker gravity.

Do you dissagree?



Please show where I questioned the accuracy of their pressure readings. Wish I had better hearing. Then I wouldn't find this interesting.
29-07-2019 05:06
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
James___ wrote:
Please show where I questioned the accuracy of their pressure readings.


Here:
James___ wrote:I don't think it's possible for a planet to have a weaker gravity than ours and still have 90 times the atmospheric pressure.


I took that to mean you thought it wasn't possible and therefore a lie.

We measured the pressure and the gravity directly. So I wondered if you thought there was falsified data or what?


29-07-2019 05:52
James___
★★★★★
(3169)
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:
Please show where I questioned the accuracy of their pressure readings.


Here:
James___ wrote:I don't think it's possible for a planet to have a weaker gravity than ours and still have 90 times the atmospheric pressure.


I took that to mean you thought it wasn't possible and therefore a lie.

We measured the pressure and the gravity directly. So I wondered if you thought there was falsified data or what?



As I said, you don't find it interesting. If you want to consider if Venus has anything to do with the Earth, none of the info made known IMHO allows for a comparison.
Ever wonder how much force it takes to pressurize CO2 to over 1,330+ psi? There's actually something in physics that can explain this. It would suggest there's more to Venus' gravitational field than meets the eye. It's in a book in a library. I like libraries. They make it easier for me to hear


Can't give you the answer though. If I do then the answer would be worthless. In a capitalist system, the only thing that has value like your paycheck is if you work for it.

I'll give you a free one about atmospheric pressure. The Earth's atmospheric pressure is 14.7 psi or 1.03 kg/cm^2 because a column of water equal to 9.8 meters tall that has a surface area of 1 cm^3 weighs 1.03 kg. A column of water of the same height that has a surface area of 1 in^2 weighs 14.7 lbs.
With me, I think they have Venus' gravity wrong. It takes force to create pressure. And if you take the time to do the work, you might understand what I'm talking about.
And 9.8 meters is equal to 1 second of gravity on Earth.
Edited on 29-07-2019 06:27
29-07-2019 07:00
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
James___ wrote:I think they have Venus' gravity wrong.


You mean they miscalculated it's mass? We've actually been there with our landers and probes to experience the gravity first hand (robot hand), so we know what the downward force of gravity is on Venus.

My understanding was that the pressure is so great because the gravity has so much to pull down. Venus has all that CO2, a very heavy gas.

Doesn't a mass of gas act similarly to a mass of liquid? The more you have piled over your head the more pressure you experience due to gravity?


29-07-2019 07:28
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7463)
GasGuzzler wrote:I was hatched. STILL in a fowl mood.

If you should ever find what's pecking at your head it'll be a feather in your cap.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-07-2019 10:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote: he's relying on whites to support him because he's offending everyone else.


One group he's not offending are neonazis and the KKK. They just love him so much. He is the most rabid attack dog against his enemies so you know who ihs enemies aren't.

David Duke may be an enemy of the state but he's not on Trump's very long list of enemies.

James___ wrote:
then why is it that immigrants seems to be doing all the hard work?...

got a question for tmiddles. What happens when other countries demand that we pay down the national debt? https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt-to-gdp


Well we are immigrants. I guess you mean why do recent immigrants work harder?

Our abuse of having the US dollar as the global standard is pretty well documented. I guess the question of what if the world starts to mess with the United States is a little bit like asking somebody who works for the rich family up the street when they plan to start messing with that rich family. We're in this together. The US economy is vital to the world.


As was said, why should Americans learn STEM subjects that keeps America running when immigrants can do that work? That's very discriminatory. And probably why Trump will get reelected. It's funny how you sound like one of his supporters.

Are you actually suggesting that Americans aren't working in high tech???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


You don't get it ITN. What you'd like to see happen might.

...which is?
James___ wrote:
I read where the people at Jamestown just killed Indians when they wanted their land for growing tobacco. It takes arable land to grow agricultural products.

??? Why would I like to see people mistreat indians or anyone else?
James___ wrote:
You forget that I wouldn't mind seeing Pocahontas' remains returned to her people. The catch is that the Powhatan tribe really doesn't exist anymore.

Why are you bringing this up??
James___ wrote:
That is the funny aspect about society, most highly placed people in the tech field are either immigrants or their children.

Nope. Most people in high tech were born right here in the U.S., and so were their parents and their grandparents.
James___ wrote:
This kind of means that one day they'll probably influence American politics.

?? They already do!
James___ wrote:
They'll have the money to support political campaigns. In some ways Trump might be offending the Hi Tech community by going after minorities.

Now you want to go for the bigotry, eh?
James___ wrote:
Yet if all those young people decided to help their own countries, where would that leave the US? The issue of immigration is a bitch.

Most in high tech are not immigrants, so nothing would happen.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
29-07-2019 10:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
. How many of Trump's executive orders went into effect, as written? .


Republicans had both houses and a president. Can't blame democrats.


Sure I can. And I will.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
29-07-2019 10:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:
As was said, why should Americans learn STEM subjects that keeps America running when immigrants can do that work?


We are immigrants! The whole country.

Nope. Most are born here
tmiddles wrote:
Americans can be accused of a lot. Workaholic nation being one, but you can't imply lazy too
Mutually exclusive

Correct.
tmiddles wrote:
And you should allow yourself to be exploited and paid adequately for it. That's just any job.

Correct.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
29-07-2019 11:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
James___ wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:
As was said, why should Americans learn STEM subjects that keeps America running when immigrants can do that work?


We are immigrants! The whole country.

Americans can be accused of a lot. Workaholic nation being one, but you can't imply lazy too
Mutually exclusive

And you should allow yourself to be exploited and paid adequately for it. That's just any job.


Words anyone can write. You forget that I am an American and have worked with them. But people will hold my service connected hearing loss against me.

I don't believe you have any medical condition.
James___ wrote:
I'm not lazy though.

Yes you are.
James___ wrote:
Have plenty of schooling but discrimination is very difficult to overcome.

No, you're lazy.
James___ wrote:
I think people screw me over because they don't want to see someone willing to put out the effort that they won't.

No, you're a lazy whiner.
James___ wrote:
And if you want to compare Venus to the Earth, learn some of the math and science that goes along with it. I don't think it's possible for a planet to have a weaker gravity than ours and still have 90 times the atmospheric pressure.

Too bad. It exists.
James___ wrote:
That's just wrong and math might show something with Newton's Theory of Gravity that's been overlooked.

No, the atmosphere of Venus has been overlooked by you.
James___ wrote:
At 1 au earth has a gravity of 9.8 m/s. Atmospheric pressure 14.7
At. 72 au Venus has a gravity of 8.87 m/s. Atmos pressure 1,330+

It might be a simple explanation. It only takes a little work

CO2 is a very heavy molecule. There is also more atmosphere as well. Volcanic activity on Venus has created quite a lot of atmosphere.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
29-07-2019 17:14
James___
★★★★★
(3169)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:
As was said, why should Americans learn STEM subjects that keeps America running when immigrants can do that work?


We are immigrants! The whole country.

Nope. Most are born here
tmiddles wrote:
Americans can be accused of a lot. Workaholic nation being one, but you can't imply lazy too
Mutually exclusive

Correct.
tmiddles wrote:
And you should allow yourself to be exploited and paid adequately for it. That's just any job.

Correct.



Nah, you guys are lazy..
29-07-2019 18:28
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2399)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
. How many of Trump's executive orders went into effect, as written? .


Republicans had both houses and a president. Can't blame democrats.


Sure I can. And I will.


Obama started his first term, with both as well, still had trouble getting his health care passed. That should have been obvious to all, that it wasn't a good deal. Didn't pass until the third round, and just barely, and a lot of closed door dealings. Still bothers me, how many of them admitted they hadn't read it, and still voted for it. They get paid a lot of money to read that crap, and vote in best interest of those who elected them. They neglected to do their jobs, and nothing happens. Most of us would have been fired, if did stuff like that at work. Votes should be bought, sold, or traded either, which they do often, and openly these days.
29-07-2019 20:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
. How many of Trump's executive orders went into effect, as written? .


Republicans had both houses and a president. Can't blame democrats.


Sure I can. And I will.


Obama started his first term, with both as well, still had trouble getting his health care passed. That should have been obvious to all, that it wasn't a good deal. Didn't pass until the third round, and just barely, and a lot of closed door dealings. Still bothers me, how many of them admitted they hadn't read it, and still voted for it. They get paid a lot of money to read that crap, and vote in best interest of those who elected them. They neglected to do their jobs, and nothing happens. Most of us would have been fired, if did stuff like that at work. Votes should be bought, sold, or traded either, which they do often, and openly these days.


Not only that, it was arbitrarily modified by Obama AFTER it was passed!


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
29-07-2019 23:46
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
HarveyH55 wrote:Obama started his first term, with both as well, still had trouble getting his health care passed. That should have been obvious to all, that it wasn't a good deal.


Yeah I think that's a fair assessment. If your own party isn't with you then there are some real issues.

If mitch mcconnell wanted a wall we'd have one.


30-07-2019 04:22
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2399)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:Obama started his first term, with both as well, still had trouble getting his health care passed. That should have been obvious to all, that it wasn't a good deal.


Yeah I think that's a fair assessment. If your own party isn't with you then there are some real issues.

If mitch mcconnell wanted a wall we'd have one.


Not really, both the House and Senate need to pass spending bills. Not sure if it's a simple majority, or the full 2/3rds. The democrats know the wall is important, and most of the country agree. It's a key bargaining tool for them. Trump promised, but if he can't deliver, they believe he'll lose votes. The figure if they can keep it on hold, eventually, Trump will agree to some of their agenda projects, like raising taxes, more social handouts, or job killing regulations. Which, of course would lose votes, and sort of give the impression that Trump is on-board with the socialism movement. Trump is use to getting what he wants, and not giving up much. Pretty relentless to, one way doesn't work, he keeps looking for other ways to make it happen, like the Pentagon funds, since the wall, is for nation defense, protects our economy...
30-07-2019 04:39
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
HarveyH55 wrote:Not sure if it's a simple majority, or the full 2/3rds.


Raising the debt ceiling is 2/3rds but spending is just a majority.

It's 60 votes to close debate in the senate (fillibuster if not closed) and the "nuclear option" used now by both parties is to make it 51.

May 2, 2017
link
"You don't have a single Republican on the border who's for the wall,"

Mainly because it's an imbecile's idea. Hey look, a wall!:

We already have one.

Every president has invested heavily in border security. Trump just wants to pretend he's the first.


30-07-2019 04:57
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1790)
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:I was hatched. STILL in a fowl mood.

If you should ever find what's pecking at your head it'll be a feather in your cap.

Nah, I found it tonight. It was just a damn tick.


All the time the base and surface are at equal temperature as the equilibrium graduates to establish the temperature development--Pete Rogers
30-07-2019 18:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:Not sure if it's a simple majority, or the full 2/3rds.


Raising the debt ceiling is 2/3rds but spending is just a majority.

Since the house makes their own rules on this, it's just a majority for both, in the end.
tmiddles wrote:
It's 60 votes to close debate in the senate (fillibuster if not closed) and the "nuclear option" used now by both parties is to make it 51.

The Senate does not create spending bills. They can only vote on the ones the House gives it.
tmiddles wrote:
May 2, 2017
link
"You don't have a single Republican on the border who's for the wall,"

Lie.
tmiddles wrote:
Mainly because it's an imbecile's idea. Hey look, a wall!:

Compositional error fallacy.
tmiddles wrote:

We already have one.

Not everywhere.
tmiddles wrote:
Every president has invested heavily in border security.

Lie.
tmiddles wrote:
Trump just wants to pretend he's the first.

Lie.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 30-07-2019 18:04
30-07-2019 18:32
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2399)
Well, I disagree, we need a physical barrier. It won't stop the illegal activities but make it a little more challenging, more expensive. Most importantly, it'll be more obvious, a greater risk of getting caught, no excuses. House still get robbed, even though there are locked doors and windows, security system. Vast majority of cars burglarized or stolen, were left unlock. Smashed windows are a little obvious. The wall won't stop some people, but it should discourage many from even making the trip. The border has been a problem for decades. Three other presidents started building a wall, just other things came up, a little more important. These people are crossing by the thousands, with only what the can carry. They need food, water, and shelter, transportation, in a hurry. No jobs, no income, no residence. How do you think many of them feed their immediate needs? Crossing the border illegally, is just the start of the criminal activities. It's a much bigger crisis, than global warming.
31-07-2019 04:26
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Well, I disagree, we need a physical barrier.


Please refer to the photo of the wall above = physical barrier.

W and Obama worked a lot on the border.

Trump is just being theatrical.


31-07-2019 11:09
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2399)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Well, I disagree, we need a physical barrier.


Please refer to the photo of the wall above = physical barrier.

W and Obama worked a lot on the border.

Trump is just being theatrical.


A fence is just as good a barrier as a wall, cheaper too. Trump is doing the best he can, with the funds he can get for the project. Fence/wall climbing isn't that easy, specially when you are already fatigued from walking miles, with a bare minimal amount of food and water. Hiding behind some bushes, or in a ditch, until Border Patrol passes, then simply walking across the border is easy. Not everyone will be able to climb over. Cutting a hole through, or digging a tunnel would be obvious, take time and energy, and risky. A wall only deals with one type of illegal immigration. There are still those that come over on a visa, that they never intended to honor, or never bother to renew, or update. A lot make it through the front door, by the tractor trailer load, though there have been quite a few that don't survive the ride. Fishing boats can easily get a few past the border, half a day is plenty to go from a Mexican port, to American port, and they don't necessarily need to dock any where official either. They can pick them up, dump them off, any where along the way. Coast Guard might pick off a few, but they can't hassle every fishing boat.
31-07-2019 12:14
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
HarveyH55 wrote:A wall only deals with one type of illegal immigration.


Also why is this a crisis? Why not instead be committed to fixing the problem by making the immigration legal?

Trump's pro white agenda is pretty transparent. From defending Nazi's and Confederate statues to calling Mexicans murders and rapists.

People like to pretend all "crime" is equivalent on this topic, as if jay walking was as bad as murder. Sneaking into a country to work just isn't much of a crime. Not offensive at all if you're white.

Don't you think we could stop it tomorrow if we just cut off the ability to work here?

99% of them are effectively invited by their employer.

He's created a country where brown children have "build the wall" chanted at them in school. It's sick.



Edited on 31-07-2019 12:15
31-07-2019 16:33
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7463)
tmiddles wrote:Also why is this a crisis?

Because the country is being severely impacted by the sheer magnitude of the illegal immigration.

tmiddles wrote: Why not instead be committed to fixing the problem by making the immigration legal?

A century ago, we Americans became committed, and we remain committed, to ensuring a legal process for immigration to this greatest of all countries.

Unfortunately, the rest of the world is just chock full of bad actors that ruin it for everyone by violating the process we have in place. It is the illegal immigrants who make their immigration illegal as opposed to doing it legally.

One more time, the fault is on the illegal immigrants, not on the good people of the United States. The American people are not somehow bad for wanting people to immigrate to our open arms LEGALLY. Those who blame the American people for the illegal immigration of illegal immigrants are shit.

tmiddles wrote: Trump's pro white agenda is pretty transparent.

Your hatred is only matched by your gullibility. Trump is a business genius who will be reelected in 2020. You are a moron and a loser. We have already established that you are a scientifically illiterate imbecile who is desperate to appear smart. Perhaps you have been conned into thinking that you will appear smart if you bash Trump. I have news for you. It makes you look stupid. It makes people conclude that you are trying to hide your own shortcomings. You are probably a racist, misogynist and homophobe. We have already established that you are a hater. Feel free to beat the dead horse of just how much of an uneducated dolt you are.

Idiot.

tmiddles wrote: From defending Nazi's and Confederate statues to calling Mexicans murders and rapists.

So you were gullible enough to believe that Trump did all that. Just keep bringing it on. You're not telling us anything about Trump. You're speaking volumes about yourself. You will apparently believe whatever other haters order you to believe.

Loser.

tmiddles wrote: Sneaking into a country to work just isn't much of a crime.

I'll get arrested if I get caught breaking my family into Disney World without paying. That isn't fair. All I want is to improve the quality of life for me and my family. Why is that a crime?

If I rob a bank, they'll throw me in jail. All I'm trying to do is to improve the lives of my family and the bank has so much more money, they'll never miss what I take. It's so unfair.

If I steal medicine from the pharmacy, what's the big deal? I'm trying to help my sick family members. What? You would rather they just die? Why put me in jail for trying to help my family heal?


Ummmm, yeah, illegal entry and theft should absolutely be decriminalized. I see your point.

tmiddles wrote: Not offensive at all if you're white.

So, tell me, why are you so fixated on identity politics. Is this one of your shortcomings you are trying to disguise.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-07-2019 16:49
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7463)
HarveyH55 wrote: A fence is just as good a barrier as a wall,

Nope. A fence still needs to be closely manned because fences can be cut and breached in short order with easily portable tools/equipment.

The government/military has regulations on materials/construction of the walls used in secure areas. Secure areas cannot be demarked by fences ... unless they are heavily manned with armed personnel as you might find in a war zone.

To be on the safe side, the basic rule to follow is "Build That Wall."

HarveyH55 wrote: Fence/wall climbing isn't that easy, specially when you are already fatigued from walking miles, with a bare minimal amount of food and water.

I can put you in touch with many security personnel who can show you wall designs that essentially require mountain climbers to breach.

Also, we know how electronic technology has exploded, and this includes sensor and surveillance technology. We don't need to man miles of fence just to have a law enforcement desk become aware of someone trying to breach a wall at some point, and to train a camera on the spot. If it is a wall, responders will have a lot of time to arrive and neutralize the situation; not so with a fence where response time needs to be within two-three minutes.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-07-2019 19:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Well, I disagree, we need a physical barrier.


Please refer to the photo of the wall above = physical barrier.

W and Obama worked a lot on the border.

Trump is just being theatrical.


Obama did very little for the border except to try to ignore the illegals coming through it.

Bush did some for the border, including hiring additional men to man the wall (an unmanned wall is not a very good one!), and improving sensors along the border, but did little for the wall itself.

The wall is outdated. It needs to be improved. This is what Trump is trying to do, and to also build wall where there is none. There is no continuous wall at the border. In many areas, it's little more than a barbed wire fence, and in many places, there is nothing at all. Just desert.

The border is facing more pressure than ever before, thanks to jerks like Soros, who is funding and organizing the massive numbers of Haitians coming through Mexico.

With those massive numbers crossing without any vetting at all are a few other individuals, who are members of terrorist cells invading the United States. There are also criminals in Mexico, fleeing justice. After crossing, they form gangs, increasing mayhem in our cities and towns.

It's time something needs to be done about the wall. It has been ignored for far too long.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
31-07-2019 19:48
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:A wall only deals with one type of illegal immigration.


Also why is this a crisis? Why not instead be committed to fixing the problem by making the immigration legal?

Trump's pro white agenda is pretty transparent. From defending Nazi's and Confederate statues to calling Mexicans murders and rapists.

People like to pretend all "crime" is equivalent on this topic, as if jay walking was as bad as murder. Sneaking into a country to work just isn't much of a crime. Not offensive at all if you're white.

Don't you think we could stop it tomorrow if we just cut off the ability to work here?

99% of them are effectively invited by their employer.

He's created a country where brown children have "build the wall" chanted at them in school. It's sick.


Just letting 'em cross unhindered means you have no border. If you have no border, you have no nation. These aren't just innocent people. There are those among them that carry dangerous diseases, are criminals like murderers, thieves, rapists, and violent thugs, people importing toxic drugs to be sold for fun and profit on our city streets, terrorists and other enemies of the United States that would just as soon kill you as look at you since you happen to be a citizen of the U.S., and others of the same sort hidden among these people.

Most of the rest come to sponge off the government welfare systems (and use your money to pay for it!), leaving those systems overloaded and failing.

Is this what you really want?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
31-07-2019 20:30
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2399)
It's a crisis, when border patrol is catching around 100,000 trying to cross illegal, every month now. We don't have the funds or facilities to handle even half that number. Those are just the ones that get caught, can't image the numbers that make, because agents are busy else where.

Last month, the stop a group of 14, from Nigeria, fleeing because a new outbreak of Ebola. Being rich enough to afford airfare to South America, and travel north, guess they weren't likely exposed. Little scary, very few survive that bug, and it spreads quick, kills quick.

They've busted several large shipments of recreational drugs this year, and a truck load of guns. Border patrol has a website, where you can look at the monthly reports. May have changed, haven't looked since GW Bush. They were catch quite a few from the middle east back then.

I really don't understand the problem with separating families. Any other crime family in America, men go to men's jail, women got to women's jail, kids go to kiddie jail, or children services. It's not a hotel, they knew they were breaking our laws, would be detained if caught, and usually sent back over the border. Do the crime, do the time. I think the strategy is to overwhelm our system, and get a fast track to residency.

The illegal are pushing ahead of the legal immigration line too. Friend of mine at work, just got his citizenship, after a 15 year wait. He'd been employed there the whole time, got married, had a son, bought a house. Shouldn't have taken that long, obviously doing everything right, and being a productive citizen.

Don't know about other states, but we have a huge problem with hit-and-run drivers, and it's not just running over pedestrians either. Sometimes, it's drunk drivers, or criminals wanted for other crimes. Many are never caught, even when the vehicle is found abandoned. They do catch a few fleeing the seen, and they are often undocumented, not always Mexicans either. Here, you can't get a driver's licence, register a car, or get insurance, without documentation.
31-07-2019 22:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
HarveyH55 wrote:
I really don't understand the problem with separating families. Any other crime family in America, men go to men's jail, women got to women's jail, kids go to kiddie jail, or children services. It's not a hotel, they knew they were breaking our laws, would be detained if caught, and usually sent back over the border. Do the crime, do the time.


And THIS is where most liberals simply don't get it.

Crossing the border illegal IS a crime. It is punishable as a crime. If you are caught, you will be detained until you can be sent back to your nation of jurisdiction.

If kids are involved, it is exactly the same as when parents are committing any other type of crime. The kids are send to children's services, or to juvenile jail if they committed a crime (they crossed the border illegally too!).

If the parents are to be kept in jail for any length of time, the kids are sent to foster care, if they themselves are not serving time.

Being a criminal makes one an unfit parent. You can and probably will lose your children.

The "it's about the children" argument is an emotional one, and one that doesn't work.

If a man commits murder, do you let him off because he has a kid at home? Do you put the kid in jail with his dad so he serves hard time too? If the mother can't be found or is involved in the murder, do you put the kid in Women's prison, even if it's a boy?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 31-07-2019 22:38
31-07-2019 23:18
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
If I said jay walking was a crisis in America. That it's a CRIME punishable with a citation from the POLICE. What would be the difference with illegal immigration?

Who are the victims actually?


01-08-2019 01:45
James___
★★★★★
(3169)
tmiddles wrote:
If I said jay walking was a crisis in America. That it's a CRIME punishable with a citation from the POLICE. What would be the difference with illegal immigration?

Who are the victims actually?


In the US, if you kill someone with your car while sober, not a problem. A family friend lost their husband while he was jogging. The motorist claimed to see nothing out of their windshield.
It was ruled an accident. He left behind 2 young daughters.
His wife was from Germantown, Ohio while he was from I think Colombia.
Living in Seattle, same situation. A motorist ran over and killed someone. No charges were filed because the motorist claimed to be switching stations on their radio and couldn't be expected to know if they drove onto the shoulder of the road or not.
It is legal to kill someone with your car. It's wrong to go for a run.
With the motorist in Seattle, a detective found the hit and run driver. No charges could be filed. There was a bump in the road.
And in south Seattle, it's not unusual for jaywalkers to die less than a hundred feet from a cross walk. It doesn't stop them.

Thought I'd add, highway 99 is also known as Aurora Ave. Check the statistics around Sea-Tac airport. That stretch of highway has low income people living there.
Edited on 01-08-2019 02:14
01-08-2019 02:12
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3374)
James___ wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
If I said jay walking was a crisis in America. That it's a CRIME punishable with a citation from the POLICE. What would be the difference with illegal immigration?

Who are the victims actually?


In the US, if you kill someone with your


Oh I was being silly James.

Ok what if illegal U turns on deserted streets was considered a crisis?
01-08-2019 02:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
tmiddles wrote:
If I said jay walking was a crisis in America. That it's a CRIME punishable with a citation from the POLICE. What would be the difference with illegal immigration?

Who are the victims actually?


The drivers that hit you. The traffic accident you may cause. The insurance company that has to pay your or someone else's medical bills. The family you or someone else can no longer support because you ****ed yourself or someone else up by you being stupid.

That's above and beyond your own pain of course, but you are correct...that is just the pain you get to live with yourself because you yourself were stupid.

All in all, the citation is the LEAST of your problems! Consider it a slap in your wallet to get your attention.

I have already described the problems with illegal immigration. I will not repeat it here. Pay attention.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-08-2019 02:40
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
James___ wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
If I said jay walking was a crisis in America. That it's a CRIME punishable with a citation from the POLICE. What would be the difference with illegal immigration?

Who are the victims actually?


In the US, if you kill someone with your car while sober, not a problem.

It's a problem. Someone just died in a car accident.
James___ wrote:
A family friend lost their husband while he was jogging. The motorist claimed to see nothing out of their windshield.

Pretty weak excuse, and an indication of how poor the visibility a lot of cars have these days.
James___ wrote:
It was ruled an accident. He left behind 2 young daughters.

I agreed. Unfortunate. At least those 2 young daughters inherit the estate.
James___ wrote:
His wife was from Germantown, Ohio while he was from I think Colombia.

Who cares?
James___ wrote:
Living in Seattle, same situation. A motorist ran over and killed someone. No charges were filed because the motorist claimed to be switching stations on their radio and couldn't be expected to know if they drove onto the shoulder of the road or not.

Charges should have been filed. Distracted driving is a misdemeanor in Washington. In Las Vegas, NV, it's a felony.

Of course, the motorist is liable for any civil suits they lose over it as well.

James___ wrote:
It is legal to kill someone with your car. It's wrong to go for a run.

Compositional error fallacy. Offenses are specifically outlines in the law.
James___ wrote:
With the motorist in Seattle, a detective found the hit and run driver. No charges could be filed.

Charges should have been filed. Hit and run is a class C felony in Washington, including Seattle. Unfortunately, the prosecutor in Seattle is notoriously incompetent. A civil suit is still an option of course.
James___ wrote:
There was a bump in the road.

No factor.
James___ wrote:
And in south Seattle, it's not unusual for jaywalkers to die less than a hundred feet from a cross walk. It doesn't stop them.

True. There are a lot of accidents there as well.
James___ wrote:
Thought I'd add, highway 99 is also known as Aurora Ave.

Only part of it. State Rt 99 goes by many names as it passes through the Everett-Seattle-Tacoma area.
James___ wrote:
Check the statistics around Sea-Tac airport.

Not too bad, actually. The passenger skybridges improved a lot.
James___ wrote:
That stretch of highway has low income people living there.

WRONG. It has people of all income levels living there.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-08-2019 02:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13292)
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
If I said jay walking was a crisis in America. That it's a CRIME punishable with a citation from the POLICE. What would be the difference with illegal immigration?

Who are the victims actually?


In the US, if you kill someone with your


Oh I was being silly James.

Ok what if illegal U turns on deserted streets was considered a crisis?


Obviously, they aren't.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-08-2019 02:57
James___
★★★★★
(3169)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
James___ wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
If I said jay walking was a crisis in America. That it's a CRIME punishable with a citation from the POLICE. What would be the difference with illegal immigration?

Who are the victims actually?


In the US, if you kill someone with your


Oh I was being silly James.

Ok what if illegal U turns on deserted streets was considered a crisis?


Obviously, they aren't.



If you ever want things to change for Native Americans, your attitude isn't helping.
01-08-2019 03:48
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2399)
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
I really don't understand the problem with separating families. Any other crime family in America, men go to men's jail, women got to women's jail, kids go to kiddie jail, or children services. It's not a hotel, they knew they were breaking our laws, would be detained if caught, and usually sent back over the border. Do the crime, do the time.


And THIS is where most liberals simply don't get it.

Crossing the border illegal IS a crime. It is punishable as a crime. If you are caught, you will be detained until you can be sent back to your nation of jurisdiction.

If kids are involved, it is exactly the same as when parents are committing any other type of crime. The kids are send to children's services, or to juvenile jail if they committed a crime (they crossed the border illegally too!).

If the parents are to be kept in jail for any length of time, the kids are sent to foster care, if they themselves are not serving time.

Being a criminal makes one an unfit parent. You can and probably will lose your children.

The "it's about the children" argument is an emotional one, and one that doesn't work.

If a man commits murder, do you let him off because he has a kid at home? Do you put the kid in jail with his dad so he serves hard time too? If the mother can't be found or is involved in the murder, do you put the kid in Women's prison, even if it's a boy?


It's also to help protest the women and children as well. You can watch everyone of them, all the time. You don't want their meals stolen or sexual assaults. In some cases you can't be sure they are actually families either, the women and children might not be actual traveling to be reunited with families or to the type of job promised. Human trafficking is a real thing.

We really don't know anything about these individuals, but we do know some are criminals from the countries they fled. We can't provide individual housing for each, or separate homes for the families. We don't have the staff to provide 24/7 protection for each of the either. No city in America provides each citizen with their own personal police officer, each of us is expected to provide our own protection. Police are there to provide assistance, and to try to find and apprehend criminals, to prevent others from being victimized. The seldom stop a crime from happening, or arrive in to time to catch the criminal in the act.
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