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27-06-2020 04:54
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
gfm7175 wrote:You have yet to formally define "black people", nor have you defined "white people".
I think this is very worthy of discussion and I'll explain my point of view as much as you like GFM.

What I mean when I use the words "white people" and "black people" is what I assume, based on experience, is the socially prevalent racist identification of people. I don't want it to be such a prevalent part of our society and I also don't pretend it's not there. I avoid identifying people by race personally as it is usually very rude and irrelevant. I might talk about Nazi persecution in terms of Jews, Gypsy, Homosexual, Communist and political groups. Those categories were well defined by the Germans.

The KKK currently does not mean "pale" people when they say "white people". Plenty of Jews are pale and the KKK is deeply antisemitic.

Is it stupid? Very stupid. It's also very real and very dangerous.

Pretend stupid and dangerous things don't exist at your peril.

Generally speaking when I use the English language I stick to the meaning that is most common and most popular. I'm a real "dictionary guy".

As I mentioned earlier Tiger Woods is the most famous "black" golfer to many people while his father has broken his lineage down with Thai being 1/2 of his ancestry, his mothers side, and just 1/16th "black" as Earl was 1/8th "black".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv3TbDlwR8Q

gfm7175 wrote:I don't know what you speak of.
Which part?

gfm7175 wrote:Anybody can identify anything however they wish
Very true and well said. Some very powerful and dangerous identifications that have justified slaughtering people totally regardless of their appearance are: "Infidel", "Heathen", and Nazi's called Jews Rats, in Rwanda the Hutu's called the Tutsi "cockroaches". And people have self identified too like the Nazi who thought of themselves not as "white" (doesn't work so well when you hate a lot of pale people) but "Aryan".

gfm7175 wrote:Instead of chanting "Black Lives Matter", maybe chant "Rational Arguments Matter"?
So implied in that attempt at humor is the belief that there is no such thing as "black" and therefor no such thing as racist oppression of black people. But I know you and IBD won't actually address that, you'll just ask another question without answering any.

gfm7175 wrote:You misquoted IBD
How exactly? (you can do that by showing how my quoting differed from what IBD actually posted).
27-06-2020 05:40
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tgoebbles wrote:The KKK currently does not mean "pale" people when they say "white people". Plenty of Jews are pale and the KKK is deeply antisemitic.

You certainly like to obsess about the KKK, an organization that is all but dead. We only hear about them when BLM is bullying them, giving them far more attention than they deserve and inciting violence at their events. BLM. We should be focusing on BLM violence, which I consider to include all the violence that they actively incite. Charlottesville is all BLM.

So let's talk about BLM.

BLM currently does not mean "dark" people when they say "black people". Plenty of "Asians" are dark and BLM does not consider them to be worthy to be counted among "black people."

Is it stupid? Very stupid. It's also very real and very dangerous.

Pretend BLM stupidity and danger don't exist at your peril.

tgoebbles wrote: Generally speaking when I use the English language I stick to the meaning that is most common and most popular.

Au contraire, mon frère, you redefine every word you can according to how radical leftist political leaders instruct you, in their constant dishonest pursuit of controlling the narrative and the disruption of free communication of ideas.

Your claim is dismissed utterly.

tgoebbles wrote: Some very powerful and dangerous identifications that have justified slaughtering people totally regardless of their appearance are:

"Pigs in blankets - Fry like bacon!"

tgoebbles wrote: And people have self identified too like the Nazi who thought of themselves not as "white" (doesn't work so well when you hate a lot of pale people) but "Aryan".

I never understood that part. They presumed to be from India. Totally weird.

tgoebbles wrote: So implied in that attempt at humor is the belief that there is no such thing as "black" and therefor no such thing as racist oppression of black people.

Exactly. You can't have a problem of racism against the completely undefined. You know that. But I know you won't actually define any of your terms lest you cede ownership of the bogus narrative.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
27-06-2020 05:55
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:I want to compare your definition...BLM currently does not mean "dark" people when they say "black people"....
My use of the term "black people" is based on anyone who calls themselves black and whoever anyone else defines as "black people" because that is a reality for those people.

What is your point exactly? I think it's that because racism isn't logical it doesn't exist? But help me out and get to the point please.

Of course I know nothing about your children and let's keep it that way.

IBdaMann wrote:...mock me for making the observation that it is obviously not real.
"not real"! There are probably not any real witches with actual magic yet it's very "real" that there were 20 executions in Salem, 1692–93.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: If your kid is called black by others that's real. Very real for your kid.

It's completely meaningless.
Unjustified yes, meaningless in the sense of being based on nothing sensible, sure, but not imaginary. If it's happening it's real.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: You kid would be dealing with being a "black person" to anyone who thought of them as such.

When you write "dealing with" ... what might that involve?
Well depends on who your child is dealing with. Let's say it's Republican David Duke, a Member of the Louisiana House of Representatives from the 81st district in the early 90s. Fortunately as he's a bit famous we have his thoughts in print. Let's say that your child wanted to date Mr. Duke's child, or be treated decently in general. Here's a quote, printed in the The Sun newspaper of Wichita, Kansas "White people don't need a law against rape, but if you fill this room up with your normal black bucks, you would, because niggers are basically primitive animals." As you know Mr. Duke ran for governor and received 671,009 votes, 38.8%. He's a big Trump supporter, was there in Charlottesville, and is still someone your child might deal with one day.

But really what you seem to be asking is that I prove that racism is real. I got that right?
IBdaMann wrote:You can't have a problem of racism against the completely undefined. You know that.
Right.
I know that is not correct at all. Again: We didn't ACTUALLY have witches did we? Yet some people got killed because they were CALLED witches.

IBdaMann wrote:You raised the issue of ...Sikhs having been attacked, ...What is your point?
That Sikhs were identified as being muslim/alqueda/arab/"rag heads" by morons. That it was a very real issue and threat to their welfare. I thought that it was a good example as it's so completely stupid as it's actually due tot he bigot being uninformed about who they actually hate.

2015: Sikh called a terrorist and beaten in Chicago

Got it?

Identity can be chosen by others for you.

I'll say it again:

You Racial/ethnic/younameit identity can be and will be chosen for you by other people when they interact with you and in how they think about you.

You can't just choose to have that not happen.

How many photographers, pitchers, congresswomen, doctors, cashiers, or programmers want to be called a black photographer, black pitcher, black congresswoman, black doctor, black cashier, or black programmer instead? You think people just love that? Like it brightens their day?

IBdaMann wrote:...Humans make mistakes out of ignorance.

Are you proposing a new way to eliminate this?
New way? Not really it's a very tried a true way: Awareness, passion and action. We can improve and have a long history of doing just that.

IBdaMann wrote:I do not condone the actions of the Boston Tea Party revolutionaries who dumped the tea overboard.
All right well that is consistent with your take on protests now. You must find the "Tea Party" moniker to be upsetting.


IBdaMann wrote:Individual people were attacked by groups of people who violently beat and kicked and stomped them,
Yet only you know about it. Odd. I'd think the beaten people would have gotten the word out. But I know you're not big on evidence for what you've manufactured.

IBdaMann wrote:I used a photo to create a meme.
You labeled a photo so as to misrepresent the photo. So you have established your own lack of integrity.

IBdaMann wrote:"Pigs in blankets - Fry like bacon!"
Yes that was a very rude chant. Yet it was not violence was it? Had the Nazi era been known as a terrible time of name calling that hurt the feelings of Jews it would be a real improvement on history.
27-06-2020 07:13
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tgoebbles wrote: My use of the term "black people" is based on anyone who calls themselves black

One moment you claim that "black people" is a term of self-identity, then the next moment you claim that it is a determination made by others.

... and you still haven't told me what it even means. It is exactly a meaningless term.

tgoebbles wrote: "not real"! There are probably not any real witches with actual magic yet it's very "real" that there were 20 executions in Salem, 1692–93.

I used the present tense. The seventeenth century doesn't quite qualify for the present tense.

tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tgoebbles wrote: If your kid is called black by others that's real. Very real for your kid.
It's completely meaningless.
Unjustified yes,

That's an interesting choice of words on your part. Why would it be "unjustified." Is it a bad thing. You aren't giving me much with which to work.

Oh, and for my children it would be completely meaningless.

tgoebbles wrote:Let's say it's Republican David Duke, a Member of the Louisiana House of Representatives from the 81st district in the early 90s.

Could we use a better example, say Corey Booker, US Senator from New Jersey? Fortunately as he's a bit famous we have his thoughts in print. He thinks "white" children have too much money whereas "black" children don't have enough.

Should my son be worried about being labelled a "white" person? He might have to deal with people like that.

tgoebbles wrote: But really what you seem to be asking is that I prove that racism is real. I got that right?

Not at all. I stipulated that racism exists. It is you who tried to delimit "racism" to bad treatment somehow of "black people" by "white people." I had to correct you that racism is occurs whenever political decisions (or decisions involving resources) are determined by race.

You never acknowledged the corrected understanding.

tgoebbles wrote: I'll say it again: You Racial/ethnic/younameit identity can be and will be chosen for you by other people when they interact with you and in how they think about you.

Nope. You are conflating concepts. Stick with "race." How will anyone determine my "race"?

tgoebbles wrote: How many photographers, pitchers, congresswomen, doctors, cashiers, or programmers want to be called a black photographer, black pitcher, black congresswoman, black doctor, black cashier, or black programmer instead?

All those who live in South Africa.





tgoebbles wrote: New way? Not really it's a very tried a true way: Awareness, passion and action.
That's what leads to genocide (see Malema memes above).

tgoebbles wrote: We can improve and have a long history of doing just that.

With BLM terrorism being recent examples.

tgoebbles wrote: All right well that is consistent with your take on protests now. You must find the "Tea Party" moniker to be upsetting.

No, I do not since the label is only used to mean taking action, but always in the form of peaceful, rational dialog and voting. There are no Tea Party calls to loot or lynch.

tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:Individual people were attacked by groups of people who violently beat and kicked and stomped them,
Yet only you know about it.

Not at all. Only you are completely blind to it apparently.

tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:I used a photo to create a meme.
You labeled a photo so as to misrepresent the photo. So you have established your own lack of integrity.

You've never seen a meme? You need to get out more.

tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:"Pigs in blankets - Fry like bacon!"
Yes that was a very rude chant. Yet it was not violence was it?

It was in celebration of events like Micah Xavier Johnson sniping twelve police officers and killing five. Upon being sued, BLM responded that you can't blame the entire organization for one bad apple.



.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
27-06-2020 09:26
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
27-06-2020 19:22
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13780)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:You have yet to formally define "black people", nor have you defined "white people".
I think this is very worthy of discussion and I'll explain my point of view as much as you like GFM.

What I mean when I use the words "white people" and "black people" is what I assume, based on experience, is the socially prevalent racist identification of people.

Racism isn't socially prevalent, fortunately. You can't speak for everyone. You can only speak for you. Mantras 9c...34...35b2...
tmiddles wrote:
I don't want it to be such a prevalent part of our society

Lie. Yes you do.
tmiddles wrote:
and I also don't pretend it's not there.

No one is pretending it's not there. You are racist.
tmiddles wrote:
I avoid identifying people by race personally as it is usually very rude and irrelevant.

Lie. You are racist.
tmiddles wrote:
I might talk about Nazi persecution in terms of Jews, Gypsy, Homosexual, Communist and political groups.

Bigotry is not racism. Mantras 9b...9b...9b...9b...
tmiddles wrote:
Those categories were well defined by the Germans.

Nope. These categories are well defined by religious and political groups. Mantra 4b...
tmiddles wrote:
The KKK currently does not mean "pale" people when they say "white people". Plenty of Jews are pale and the KKK is deeply antisemitic.

Racism. Bigotry. Mantras 9c...9b...
tmiddles wrote:
Is it stupid? Very stupid. It's also very real and very dangerous.

Paradox. Which is it, dude? You can't be a racist and a bigot and condemn racism and bigotry.
tmiddles wrote:
Pretend stupid and dangerous things don't exist at your peril.

No one is. Mantras 16b...30...
tmiddles wrote:
Generally speaking when I use the English language

Lie. You don't know the English language. You only know the Liberal language.
tmiddles wrote:
I stick to the meaning that is most common and most popular.

Lie. You change the meaning of words, sometimes in the same sentence! You use words that have no meaning in English. Mantras 10a...10b...10c...10d...10e...10f...10g...10h...10i...22a...22b...22c...22d...22e...22f...22g...
tmiddles wrote:
I'm a real "dictionary guy".

Dictionaries do not define words. Mantras 4b...4d...4e...4f...
tmiddles wrote:
As I mentioned earlier Tiger Woods is the most famous "black" golfer to many people while his father has broken his lineage down with Thai being 1/2 of his ancestry, his mothers side, and just 1/16th "black" as Earl was 1/8th "black".
...deleted Holy Video...

Racism. Mantras 9c...16b...
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:I don't know what you speak of.
Which part?

Void question. RQAA. Mantras 15...29...36e...
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:Anybody can identify anything however they wish
Very true and well said. Some very powerful and dangerous identifications that have justified slaughtering people totally regardless of their appearance are: "Infidel", "Heathen", and Nazi's called Jews Rats, in Rwanda the Hutu's called the Tutsi "cockroaches". And people have self identified too like the Nazi who thought of themselves not as "white" (doesn't work so well when you hate a lot of pale people) but "Aryan".

Mantras 9b...9c...
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:Instead of chanting "Black Lives Matter", maybe chant "Rational Arguments Matter"?
So implied in that attempt at humor is the belief that there is no such thing as "black" and therefor no such thing as racist oppression of black people.

Racism. Mantra 9c...
tmiddles wrote:
But I know you and IBD won't actually address that,

He already has. RQAA. Mantra 29.
tmiddles wrote:
you'll just ask another question without answering any.

Inversion fallacy. Mantra 29...30...
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:You misquoted IBD
How exactly? (you can do that by showing how my quoting differed from what IBD actually posted).

He does not need to quote anything. You misquote people all the time. Mantras 30...36c...36e...


No argument presented. RQAA. Denial of self. Paradox. Racism. Bigotry. Speaking for others. Inversions. Lies.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
27-06-2020 20:52
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)


Can you spot the "Kill Whitey" in the picture below?

27-06-2020 23:27
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:
Can you spot the "Kill Whitey" in the picture below?


So that I know what I'm responding to:

Where/when/who is the "KILL WHITEY" sign photo from?
28-06-2020 00:57
James___
★★★★★
(3433)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Can you spot the "Kill Whitey" in the picture below?


So that I know what I'm responding to:

Where/when/who is the "KILL WHITEY" sign photo from?




Apparently @jrivanob was replying to himself.
Attached image:


Edited on 28-06-2020 01:00
28-06-2020 04:01
James___
★★★★★
(3433)
Apparently there were 3 statues and all 3 were destroyed. Why @jrivanob would be replying to himself. And it was the rapper/actor Ice-T who said this about humanity and not black lives. I saw his interview.
I can understand symbols of slavery being offensive, but no one should hope to purge history and rewrite it. If every evidence of slavery were gone, what then? Would people forget? They would.
28-06-2020 04:38
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Can you spot the "Kill Whitey" in the picture below?


So that I know what I'm responding to:
Where/when/who is the "KILL WHITEY" sign photo from?


Do you think that will help you find it in the picture?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-06-2020 04:52
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1274185043766697984

BLM ... quite the inspiration for our children. If kids learn to effectively play hooky from school, they too can grow up to be just like them.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-06-2020 05:42
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Can you spot the "Kill Whitey" in the picture below?


So that I know what I'm responding to:
Where/when/who is the "KILL WHITEY" sign photo from?


Do you think that will help you find it in the picture?

.


Is it from South Africa? Why would you post a photo and refuse to identify it?
28-06-2020 06:14
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Can you spot the "Kill Whitey" in the picture below?


So that I know what I'm responding to:
Where/when/who is the "KILL WHITEY" sign photo from?


Do you think that will help you find it in the picture?

.

Is it from South Africa? Why would you post a photo and refuse to identify it?

I think someone is missing the point of the puzzle.

I don't want to give any spoilers.

,


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-06-2020 08:14
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:
...the puzzle...I don't want to give ...,
ok good luck with that. Ironically you make the best case for how non-violent BLM protests have been. Your inability to provide anything other than examples of vandalism says it all.

To be honest I thought you'd find a little something. Millions have protested and someone's always stupid somewhere. I'm sure there has been some violence.
Edited on 28-06-2020 08:15
28-06-2020 08:46
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
...the puzzle...I don't want to give ...,
ok good luck with that. Ironically you make the best case for how non-violent BLM protests have been. Your inability to provide anything other than examples of vandalism says it all.

To be honest I thought you'd find a little something. Millions have protested and someone's always stupid somewhere. I'm sure there has been some violence.

What I'm reading is your desperate attempt to pronounce me to have lost on a case I have not presented.

I already stated that I was not going to waste my time trying to convince you away from your religious convictions. You're not any sort of dispassionate judge. You are a choir member of the congregation. You have been instructed to refer to violent BLM terrorism as peaceful benevolence ... and you are clearly OBEYING.

How much of my time do you honestly think I'm going waste on that ... pretending, of course, that you are inclined to be honest?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-06-2020 10:55
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:...to pronounce me to have lost on a case I have not presented.
The case you presented was:
IBdaMann wrote:...BLM who lynch and loot and kill, ...
All you've shown are misrepresented photos (which have nothing to do with BLM protests), a quote from a South African politician, and cars being killed.

This from the guy who claims real photos from Charlottesville are staged.

IBdaMann wrote:One moment you claim that "black people" is a term of self-identity, then the next moment you claim that it is a determination made by others.
Yes IBD. Any type of social "identity" is something a person can choose to adopt and it is also something others can project onto them.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddless wrote:...witches ...Salem, 1692–93.
I used the present tense.
And I also gave you the example of Sikh's being attacked. There really is no shortage of examples of stupid bigotry.

IBdaMann wrote:Could we use a better example,...
Why? That's David Duke right there in Charlottesville. Former Republican candidate for state Governor. Why ignore that example?
Popular guy with some. Maybe YOU would even call his fans "very fine people". Why DODGE that one IBD?

IBdaMann wrote:Corey Booker, US Senator ...thinks "white" children have too much money..
Just admit first off that you think the only significant racism in the US has those who are considered "white" as the victims. You have also misrepresented Mr. Booker. Here's the quote:
"Today, white young people have 16 times the wealth of black young people....my baby bonds legislation, which would virtually close the racial wealth gap." His proposal is that EVERY child, regardless of race, would have a government funded $1000 nest egg at birth. The concept goes back to 1797 and Thomas Paine. One more time: "white" babies would get exactly the same thing that "black" babies got. It would be for everyone. But keep searching for that reverse racism, you'll find something. Oh and of course that's not even law, it's just a tweet.

Kind of like the quote from a fringe South African politician you seem to think is relevant (why is that btw?) Just something someone said.

IBdaMann wrote:...you who tried to delimit "racism" to bad treatment somehow of "black people" by "white people." I had to correct you that racism is occurs whenever political decisions (or decisions involving resources) are determined by race.
You are saying the only racism is committed by governments. This is a denial that racism occurs otherwise. You are denying that black people are the victims of racism in the private sector.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: How many ...want to be called a black photographer, ...

All those who live in South Africa.
Ha ha, I will admit I'm skipping the research to support this: But being black in Africa is not something people notice. 9% of South Africa is consider white. But how desperate can you be to leave the country on this topic!

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: New way? Not really it's a very tried a true way: Awareness, passion and action.

That's what leads to genocide
yeah, and the declaration of independence, an end to slavery, women's suffrage....

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:Individual people were attacked
Yet only you know about it.
Not at all.
Yet you have time to quote South African fringe politicians but not share that now mythical violence you keep alleging?

IBdaMann wrote:Micah Xavier Johnson sniping twelve police officers and killing five. Upon being sued, BLM responded that you can't blame the entire organization for one bad apple.
Wow you have fabricated a quote yet again! BLM condemned the attack which was horrible. You have lied again, by claiming that statement was made.

You didn't bother to research your examples, yet again:
" Johnson's manifesto. As we reported, "In the short purported manifesto, the writer points to police shootings of black Americans as his motivation and criticizes the Black Lives Matter movement."" link
Edited on 28-06-2020 11:32
28-06-2020 11:11
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Is it stupid? Very stupid. It's also very real and very dangerous.

Paradox. Which is it, dude? You can't be a racist and a bigot and condemn racism and bigotry.
So here we have this odd concept that if you acknowledge bigotry and deal with it that somehow makes you a bigot.

Whether or not a person admits that people are identified by others racially, that other people classify their fellow citizens as "black people" and "white people", does nothing to change that reality!

Let's take an easy one: Hate crime laws.

Someone in a bar gets into an argument and is punched in the face. Now that is assault.

A different incident also involves a punch to the face but it's a Sikh man walking down the street who is chased by some bigots calling him a "terrorist rag head" who then punch him in the face. That is also assault.

But these crimes, I hope you'll agree, are far from equivalent. Even if the punch was just as hard and in the same spot.

The Sikh man was the victim of a hate crime. The punishment in the bar fight case is maybe nothing or it's a misdemeanor. In this case it should be far more severe for two reasons: One the damage and trauma inflicted on the victim and society as whole is far greater, Two the perpetrators represent an ongoing threat to society.

Now if you were to say that the court should be "blind to prejudice" or something along those lines, that they should disregard the racist motives, well, you'd have some bigots very relieved.

The state of Georgia only just got a hate crime bill passed. It took a racially motivated murder to do it. (well really it took one being on video while BLM protests are ongoing to do it).
Edited on 28-06-2020 11:36
28-06-2020 23:57
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tgoebbles wrote:So here we have this odd concept that if you acknowledge bigotry and deal with it that somehow makes you a bigot.

You are not "acknowledging" anything. You are creating racism. Let's walk through it.

What is the objective definition of "black people" such that one can validate your claim that there is a problem of racism against "black people" in the US?

You know there isn't any such definition and you know that there is no problem of racism in the US. Ergo you set about fabricating racism at the bidding of your slave masters in BLM (and ANTIFA and whatever other Marxist organizations own you). You work to foment uprisings and terrorism in the US by fabricating "problems" that don't exist, e.g. racism, Global Warming, threats of law abiding citizens able to defend themselves, etc...

tgoebbles wrote: Whether or not a person admits that people are identified by others racially, that other people classify their fellow citizens as "black people" and "white people", does nothing to change that reality!

The reality is that there is no Global Warming that you have demonstrated, there are no mystical magical substances in our atmosphere violating physics that you have demonstrated, there is no problem of racism in the US, there is no more NAZI Germany that you have demonstrated outside of staged photographs you are selling and there is no problem with law-abiding citizens being able to defend themselves outside of your consternation that it will reduce the effectiveness of the terrorism you seek to unleash on the country.

tgoebbles wrote:Let's take an easy one: Hate crime laws.

There should be no such thing. No one's thoughts are illegal. Only actions should be made illegal.

If I were king for a day all hate crime statutes would be abolished ... immediately.

tgoebbles wrote:But these crimes, I hope you'll agree, are far from equivalent.

They are equivalent. Hating people is legal. The assault is not.

tgoebbles wrote:The state of Georgia only just got a hate crime bill passed.

I feel sorry for Georgians. They are now one step closer to 1984.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-06-2020 21:37
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13780)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Is it stupid? Very stupid. It's also very real and very dangerous.

Paradox. Which is it, dude? You can't be a racist and a bigot and condemn racism and bigotry.
So here we have this odd concept that if you acknowledge bigotry and deal with it that somehow makes you a bigot.

You are a racist bigot, and not because you acknowledge it.
tmiddles wrote:
Whether or not a person admits that people are identified by others racially, that other people classify their fellow citizens as "black people" and "white people", does nothing to change that reality!

Racism. Buzzword fallacy Mantras 10d...9c...
tmiddles wrote:
Let's take an easy one: Hate crime laws.

Laws based on racism or bigotry.
tmiddles wrote:
Someone in a bar gets into an argument and is punched in the face. Now that is assault.

Correct. A felony.
tmiddles wrote:
A different incident also involves a punch to the face but it's a Sikh man walking down the street who is chased by some bigots calling him a "terrorist rag head" who then punch him in the face. That is also assault.

Correct. A felony.
tmiddles wrote:
But these crimes, I hope you'll agree, are far from equivalent.

Coirrect. In Washington, the first case is a class B felony since the victim help to instigate the assault against him. The 2nd is a class A felony since the victim did NOT help to instigate the assault against him.
tmiddles wrote:
Even if the punch was just as hard and in the same spot.

Irrelevant.
tmiddles wrote:
The Sikh man was the victim of a hate crime.

Bigotry. Mantra 9c.
tmiddles wrote:
The punishment in the bar fight case is maybe nothing or it's a misdemeanor.

WRONG. It is a class B felony in Washington State. It is a felony in most States.
tmiddles wrote:
In this case it should be far more severe for two reasons: One the damage and trauma inflicted on the victim and society as whole is far greater, Two the perpetrators represent an ongoing threat to society.

They do in both cases. No difference.
tmiddles wrote:
Now if you were to say that the court should be "blind to prejudice" or something along those lines, that they should disregard the racist motives, well, you'd have some bigots very relieved.

Implementing racist and bigoted laws does not eliminate bigotry and racism.
tmiddles wrote:
The state of Georgia only just got a hate crime bill passed. It took a racially motivated murder to do it. (well really it took one being on video while BLM protests are ongoing to do it).

The the legislature of Georgia has only demonstrated they are racist.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
29-06-2020 21:51
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:You have yet to formally define "black people", nor have you defined "white people".
I think this is very worthy of discussion and I'll explain my point of view as much as you like GFM.

What I mean when I use the words "white people" and "black people" is what I assume, based on experience, is the socially prevalent racist identification of people.

tmiddlesC8. You are still evading. Define "black people".

tmiddles wrote:
I don't want it to be such a prevalent part of our society and I also don't pretend it's not there. I avoid identifying people by race personally as it is usually very rude and irrelevant. I might talk about Nazi persecution in terms of Jews, Gypsy, Homosexual, Communist and political groups. Those categories were well defined by the Germans.

The KKK currently does not mean "pale" people when they say "white people". Plenty of Jews are pale and the KKK is deeply antisemitic.

Is it stupid? Very stupid. It's also very real and very dangerous.

Pretend stupid and dangerous things don't exist at your peril.

Lies. You have said many racist and bigoted things within this very thread alone. You have already shown yourself to be both a racist and a bigot.

tmiddles wrote:
Generally speaking when I use the English language I stick to the meaning that is most common and most popular. I'm a real "dictionary guy".

Mantra 35. Mantra 4b. What "English" are you referring to? You've been speaking Liberal this whole time. Liberal is not English.

tmiddles wrote:
As I mentioned earlier Tiger Woods is the most famous "black" golfer to many people while his father has broken his lineage down with Thai being 1/2 of his ancestry, his mothers side, and just 1/16th "black" as Earl was 1/8th "black".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv3TbDlwR8Q

Mantra 29.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:I don't know what you speak of.
Which part?

"racial identity", whatever that means. Mantra 29.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:Anybody can identify anything however they wish
Very true and well said. Some very powerful and dangerous identifications that have justified slaughtering people totally regardless of their appearance are: "Infidel", "Heathen", and Nazi's called Jews Rats, in Rwanda the Hutu's called the Tutsi "cockroaches". And people have self identified too like the Nazi who thought of themselves not as "white" (doesn't work so well when you hate a lot of pale people) but "Aryan".

Mantra 9b, Mantra 9c.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:Instead of chanting "Black Lives Matter", maybe chant "Rational Arguments Matter"?
So implied in that attempt at humor is the belief that there is no such thing as "black" and therefor no such thing as racist oppression of black people.

tmiddlesC3a. Mantra 9c.

tmiddles wrote:
But I know you and IBD won't actually address that, you'll just ask another question without answering any.

tmiddlesC5a. Mantra 17.

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:You misquoted IBD
How exactly? (you can do that by showing how my quoting differed from what IBD actually posted).

tmiddlesC8. Continued bogus position assignments. Mantra 36c, Mantra 36e.
Edited on 29-06-2020 21:53
29-06-2020 23:24
James___
★★★★★
(3433)
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:


What I mean when I use the words "white people" and "black people" is what I assume, based on experience, is the socially prevalent racist identification of people.

tmiddlesC8. You are still evading. Define "black people".




Umm, being back in the "No Fun Zone", Niger means black. An example is Nigeria, it is a country about black people. While I don't know Latin, Niger in Latin means black. Pretty basic.
In southern US states, ignorant white people (Americans) said niggers. They did not know Latin. Why white Americans are ignorant.
30-06-2020 01:17
James___
★★★★★
(3433)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:..."black people"...there isn't any such definition...there is no problem of racism in the US.
gfm7175 wrote:Define "black people".
Has there ever been a problem of racism in the US in your opinion? If so what was different then as opposed to now?

In our history there was slavery, laws against interracial relationships, private legal contracts against selling real estate or renting based on race, segregation laws about where you could eat, walk or enter a building based on race.

It doesn't seem to me that millions of people had any trouble defining "black people" when they were called "colored people":


Is the term "colored people" well defined for you?

And plenty of this was instituted privately beyond the scope of government action.

IBdaMann wrote:...NAZI...staged photographs...
You keep claiming this photo is stage:

How about this one:
Ah same guy:Again:
But it's all fiction to you right? I'm curious: Do you see any "Very Fine People" in those photos from Charlottesville?

I sure don't.

And you're the guy that has openly and shameless misrepresented photos here repeatedly.

IBdaMann wrote:If I were king for a day all hate crime statutes would be abolished ... immediately.
Well your position on what the laws should/shouldn't be is clear. You did neglect to address the issue I presented though.

Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
But these crimes, I hope you'll agree, are far from equivalent.
...class B felony since the victim help to instigate the assault against him
No I did not say the victim in the bar instigated anything. You have elected not to address the issue I presented. It all depends on if you are evaluating a crime based on the damage it does to the victim and society.

You have not addressed that at all.

You would both seem to have very "Offender POV" on criminal justice.

If someone lights a match (non-violently by IBD's definition) and burns your home to the ground, it is a greater crime than if they damage a wall by hitting it with a hammer for hours.

We are accountable for the harm we cause.

gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:I don't know what you speak of.
Which part?
"racial identity", whatever that means.
You don't understand how a person can have a racial identity? We can talk about it if you'd like. You realize of course I didn't just invent the concept here.



My father lived under actual Nazi rule. You know, people who wore uniforms and had machine guns. I had many talks with him about this. What you're showing is basically a joke. Would you like to know what reality is?
p.s., other people in my family lived under Nazi rule. Want to know the truth?
Kind of why I am an a$$h0le.

In simplistic terms, you"re an American. And yet Rome fell.
Edited on 30-06-2020 01:26
30-06-2020 01:34
James___
★★★★★
(3433)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:..."black people"...there isn't any such definition...there is no problem of racism in the US.
gfm7175 wrote:Define "black people".
Has there ever been a problem of racism in the US in your opinion? If so what was different then as opposed to now?

In our history there was slavery, laws against interracial relationships, private legal contracts against selling real estate or renting based on race, segregation laws about where you could eat, walk or enter a building based on race.

It doesn't seem to me that millions of people had any trouble defining "black people" when they were called "colored people":


Is the term "colored people" well defined for you?

And plenty of this was instituted privately beyond the scope of government action.

IBdaMann wrote:...NAZI...staged photographs...
You keep claiming this photo is stage:

How about this one:
Ah same guy:Again:
But it's all fiction to you right? I'm curious: Do you see any "Very Fine People" in those photos from Charlottesville?

I sure don't.

And you're the guy that has openly and shameless misrepresented photos here repeatedly.

IBdaMann wrote:If I were king for a day all hate crime statutes would be abolished ... immediately.
Well your position on what the laws should/shouldn't be is clear. You did neglect to address the issue I presented though.

Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
But these crimes, I hope you'll agree, are far from equivalent.
...class B felony since the victim help to instigate the assault against him
No I did not say the victim in the bar instigated anything. You have elected not to address the issue I presented. It all depends on if you are evaluating a crime based on the damage it does to the victim and society.

You have not addressed that at all.

You would both seem to have very "Offender POV" on criminal justice.

If someone lights a match (non-violently by IBD's definition) and burns your home to the ground, it is a greater crime than if they damage a wall by hitting it with a hammer for hours.

We are accountable for the harm we cause.

gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:I don't know what you speak of.
Which part?
"racial identity", whatever that means.
You don't understand how a person can have a racial identity? We can talk about it if you'd like. You realize of course I didn't just invent the concept here.



tmiddles, your argument is based on one guy. I like IBDM's latest post about space exploration. Americans hate Norwegians. They actually kill them.
When Christopher Bergan was killed by his father in law, nothing happened.
Chris had a Norwegian accent like I had before my hearing loss.
Why did his father in law kill him? This is your perspective.
With me, Americans hate me because there is the right way to speak Engleske. And Chris was a family man married to an American woman.
And as good Americans, we know the face of evil.
Attached image:


Edited on 30-06-2020 01:39
30-06-2020 01:57
James___
★★★★★
(3433)
I get it now. He was Bjoran and not Ferengi. I feel so stupid over such a simple mistake. The Bjorans have a civil war going on while the Ferengi only wish to acquire. My baad.
30-06-2020 02:02
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:..."black people"...there isn't any such definition...there is no problem of racism in the US.
gfm7175 wrote:Define "black people".
Has there ever been a problem of racism in the US in your opinion? If so what was different then as opposed to now?

In our history there was slavery, laws against interracial relationships, private legal contracts against selling real estate or renting based on race, segregation laws about where you could eat, walk or enter a building based on race.

It doesn't seem to me that millions of people had any trouble defining "black people" when they were called "colored people":


Is the term "colored people" well defined for you?

And plenty of this was instituted privately beyond the scope of government action.

IBdaMann wrote:...NAZI...staged photographs...
You keep claiming this photo is stage:

How about this one:
Ah same guy:Again:
But it's all fiction to you right? I'm curious: Do you see any "Very Fine People" in those photos from Charlottesville?

I sure don't.

And you're the guy that has openly and shameless misrepresented photos here repeatedly.

IBdaMann wrote:If I were king for a day all hate crime statutes would be abolished ... immediately.
Well your position on what the laws should/shouldn't be is clear. You did neglect to address the issue I presented though.

Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
But these crimes, I hope you'll agree, are far from equivalent.
...class B felony since the victim help to instigate the assault against him
No I did not say the victim in the bar instigated anything. You have elected not to address the issue I presented. It all depends on if you are evaluating a crime based on the damage it does to the victim and society.

You have not addressed that at all.

You would both seem to have very "Offender POV" on criminal justice.

If someone lights a match (non-violently by IBD's definition) and burns your home to the ground, it is a greater crime than if they damage a wall by hitting it with a hammer for hours.

We are accountable for the harm we cause.

gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:I don't know what you speak of.
Which part?
"racial identity", whatever that means.
You don't understand how a person can have a racial identity? We can talk about it if you'd like. You realize of course I didn't just invent the concept here.
30-06-2020 02:21
James___
★★★★★
(3433)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:..."black people"...there isn't any such definition...there is no problem of racism in the US.
gfm7175 wrote:Define "black people".
Has there ever been a problem of racism in the US in your opinion? If so what was different then as opposed to now?

In our history there was slavery, laws against interracial relationships, private legal contracts against selling real estate or renting based on race, segregation laws about where you could eat, walk or enter a building based on race.

It doesn't seem to me that millions of people had any trouble defining "black people" when they were called "colored people":


Is the term "colored people" well defined for you?

And plenty of this was instituted privately beyond the scope of government action.

IBdaMann wrote:...NAZI...staged photographs...
You keep claiming this photo is stage:

How about this one:
Ah same guy:Again:
But it's all fiction to you right? I'm curious: Do you see any "Very Fine People" in those photos from Charlottesville?

I sure don't.

And you're the guy that has openly and shameless misrepresented photos here repeatedly.

IBdaMann wrote:If I were king for a day all hate crime statutes would be abolished ... immediately.
Well your position on what the laws should/shouldn't be is clear. You did neglect to address the issue I presented though.

Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
But these crimes, I hope you'll agree, are far from equivalent.
...class B felony since the victim help to instigate the assault against him
No I did not say the victim in the bar instigated anything. You have elected not to address the issue I presented. It all depends on if you are evaluating a crime based on the damage it does to the victim and society.

You have not addressed that at all.

You would both seem to have very "Offender POV" on criminal justice.

If someone lights a match (non-violently by IBD's definition) and burns your home to the ground, it is a greater crime than if they damage a wall by hitting it with a hammer for hours.

We are accountable for the harm we cause.

gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:I don't know what you speak of.
Which part?
"racial identity", whatever that means.
You don't understand how a person can have a racial identity? We can talk about it if you'd like. You realize of course I didn't just invent the concept here.



My father suffered under actual Nazis. In this forum, I pretty much hate everyone for being Nazis. And then there is you. Your repeated display of the Swastika would do any real Nazi proud.
Any argument you have tmiddles is that you are a Nazi. Absolutely no one displays the swastika as much as you do. It is a symbol of pride for some people.
I am 1/2 Norwegian and do know what the swastika represents. And I am also an a$$hole. Some things I can never support. At least on Earth.
Sadly, you identify with it.
Edited on 30-06-2020 02:23
30-06-2020 02:56
James___
★★★★★
(3433)
Hopefully you'll understand tmiddles that some of us don't care for the swastika. I happen to have no tolerance for it. If you want to post a picture of it, say how much it disgusts you. But when I see it represented in so many pictures, do know I will be enemy #1. I will have no tolerance.
I only mention this tmiddles because you keep posting the Nazi flag. Why do you keep posting pictures of it for? It has nothing to do with BLM.
Give a reason or quit posting it.
Edited on 30-06-2020 03:13
30-06-2020 07:06
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tgoebbles wrote: Has there ever been a problem of racism in the US in your opinion?

Yes. Specifically past tense.

tgoebbles wrote: If so what was different then as opposed to now?

Today we have only one political party (DNC) working tirelessly to instill racism and bigotry, which was not the case in the past when all political parties were in agreement about instilling racism and bigotry.

tgoebbles wrote: In our history there was ...

Yes. All non-revisionist history is admitted into evidence.

tgoebbles wrote: It doesn't seem to me that millions of people had any trouble defining "black people" when they were called "colored people"

How things seem to you does not count as a definition of "black people." Please define "black people" or stop using the term. Please define all the empty buzzwords you use."

tgoebbles wrote: Is the term "colored people" well defined for you?

Not at all.

tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...NAZI...staged photographs...
You keep claiming this photo is stage:

You keep posting staged photos created by the people you serve. You are targetted because you are gullible and fall easy prey to stupid, obviously staged photos.

tgoebbles wrote: I'm curious: Do you see any "Very Fine People" in those photos from Charlottesville?

I sure don't. I see lots of BLM'ers staging very cliché photos for gullible audiences. If those were actual "white supremacists" then your slavemasters would have already doxed every single one of them already. However, since they are all BLM'ers staging the photographs, every single one of their identities is heavily guarded like top secret information or like the DNC file server. If that were to ever get out then of course the jig would be up.

I'm not gullible like you so don't expect me to fall for the stunt.

tgoebbles wrote:And you're the guy that has openly and shameless misrepresented photos here repeatedly.

Too funny! You're the guy who had to have "meme" explained to him. It's no wonder you fall so easily for staged photos.

Please be aware that those staged photos are for your benefit, i.e. to keep you well manipulated. Those photos aren't going to have the same effect on those not controlled by your slavemasters.

tgoebbles wrote: You did neglect to address the issue I presented though.

... and I see that it isn't important enough to you to refresh my memory so I take it that we can close that out as well, whatever it was.

tgoebbles wrote: It all depends on if you are evaluating a crime based on the damage it does to the victim and society.

Nope. That is done in the sentencing phase. The only evaluation of the crime is binary: "Guilty" or "Not Guilty."

tgoebbles wrote: You have not addressed that at all.

... because you are WRONG!

tgoebbles wrote: You would both seem to have very "Offender POV" on criminal justice.

I'm intrigued. What the F does that even mean?

tgoebbles wrote: We are accountable for the harm we cause.

... unless we are chanting "Pigs in a blanket, fry like bacon!"
... unless we are looting and lynching.
... unless we torch cars and family businesses
... unless we are "black people" (whatever that means)
... unless we topple statues.
... unless we kill cops.
... unless we brutally attack people with viscious ground-and-pounds

You have too many exceptions to your rule, rendering it somewhat meaningless. The fact that your rule only applies to "white people" reveals the racism inherent in your thought process.


tgoebbles wrote: You don't understand how a person can have a racial identity? We can talk about it if you'd like. You realize of course I didn't just invent the concept here.

I am assuming exactly that, i.e. that you are inventing this new and improved term "racial identity" in your ongoing efforts to redefine English. Please define clearly and unambiguously this "racial identity." Do I have one? Is there an official list of these racial identities? How do I determine my own? How do I teach my children how they can racially identify themselves, you know, so they can share with their friends and help others racially identify themselves?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-06-2020 07:28
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
James___ wrote: Hopefully you'll understand tmiddles that some of us don't care for the swastika.

I hope you know that Hitler appropriated the ancient "rebirth" symbol from Hinduism. Hitler wanted a "rebirth" of the German Reich so he stole the symbol of Ganesh which is:







The truly bizarre part of Hitler's insanity was his belief in the superiority of the "Aryan" race. What race was that? "Whites", as in what tgoebbles would have us believe? Nope. Hitler and the Reich did not believe in "white" superiority or in "caucasion" superiority but in "Aryan" superiority ... and they are neither "white" nor "caucasion." They are Indian ... Indian Hindus from the Arya Valley along the Indus river in what is now Pakistan.

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.9999992,70.8599243,50351m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

They were the Vedic Indic tribes who migrated to southeast Asia around 1480 BCE. Some went as far west as what is now Iran.

They were the Aryan "race" that Hitler claimed was superior.


However, today everyone seems to think Hitler created the "swastika" for "White superiority" ... everyone except Hindus.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-06-2020 08:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13780)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:..."black people"...there isn't any such definition...there is no problem of racism in the US.
gfm7175 wrote:Define "black people".
Has there ever been a problem of racism in the US in your opinion? If so what was different then as opposed to now?
RQAA.
In our history there was slavery,

There still is, though it's illegal.
tmiddles wrote:
laws against interracial relationships,

There still is. You can't marry a horse, for example.
tmiddles wrote:
private legal contracts against selling real estate or renting based on race,

There still is. My cat can't sign any contracts or buy real estate.
tmiddles wrote:
segregation laws about where you could eat, walk or enter a building based on race.

There still are places you can't eat, walk, or enter a building based on the color of your skin.
tmiddles wrote:
It doesn't seem to me that millions of people had any trouble defining "black people" when they were called "colored people".

Racism.
tmiddles wrote:
Is the term "colored people" well defined for you?

RQAA. Racism.
tmiddles wrote:
And plenty of this was instituted privately beyond the scope of government action.

It still is.
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...NAZI...staged photographs...
You keep claiming this photo is stage:
...deleted image...
How about this one:
...deleted image...
Ah same guy:[...deleted image....
But it's all fiction to you right?

RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
I'm curious: Do you see any "Very Fine People" in those photos from Charlottesville?

RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
I sure don't.

And you're the guy that has openly and shameless misrepresented photos here repeatedly.

Inversion fallacy.
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:If I were king for a day all hate crime statutes would be abolished ... immediately.
Well your position on what the laws should/shouldn't be is clear.

Then why are you asking the same questions that he already answered about them?
tmiddles wrote:
You did neglect to address the issue I presented though.

Lie. RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
But these crimes, I hope you'll agree, are far from equivalent.
...class B felony since the victim help to instigate the assault against him
No I did not say the victim in the bar instigated anything.

Yes you did liar. They were arguing.
tmiddles wrote:
You have elected not to address the issue I presented.

Lie. RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
It all depends on if you are evaluating a crime based on the damage it does to the victim and society.

Nope. It depends on the circumstances surrounding the incident.
tmiddles wrote:
You have not addressed that at all.

Lie. RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
You would both seem to have very "Offender POV" on criminal justice.

If someone lights a match (non-violently by IBD's definition) and burns your home to the ground, it is a greater crime than if they damage a wall by hitting it with a hammer for hours.

Yes. Arson endangers lives.
tmiddles wrote:
We are accountable for the harm we cause.

Unless you are a 'privileged elite', such as a BLM or Antifa member.
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:I don't know what you speak of.
Which part?
"racial identity", whatever that means.
You don't understand how a person can have a racial identity?

RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
We can talk about it if you'd like.

Mantra 6.
tmiddles wrote:
You realize of course I didn't just invent the concept here.

No, but you are a racist and bigot anyway.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
30-06-2020 08:13
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: Has there ever been a problem of racism in the US in your opinion?

Yes. Specifically past tense.
So around when, what year/s, did racism in the US cease to be a problem?

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: Is the term "colored people" well defined for you?

Not at all.

So how do you think they managed with segregation? Here's a quote from Plessy v. Ferguson (not overturned until 1954):
"This case turns upon the constitutionality of an act of the general assembly of the state of Louisiana, passed in 1890, providing for separate railway carriages for the white and colored races. Acts 1890, No. 111, p. 152."

Now that is Homer Plessy. He was called an "octoroon" having 1/8th African-American heritage. He looked "white" and the case was deliberately brought as a test of the law. Legally though he was considered "colored".

How do you suppose they managed to discuss this so plainly in court but you're confused IBD?

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: You did neglect to address the issue I presented though.
...refresh my memory...The only evaluation of the crime is binary: "Guilty" or "Not Guilty."
That a Sikh man would be punched by bigots attacking him for being in their words a "terrorist rag head" should be considered a more severe crime than a punch without special circumstances. You see we are not talking about "Guilty"/"Not Guilty" with a "Hate CRIME" as distinguished from just a "Crime". Of COURSE you must prove that a crime was committed first. The "Hate Crime" comes into play with the punishment. And "Special Circumstances" are a well recognized and understood part of our criminal justice system:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_circumstances_(criminal_law)

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: You would both seem to have very "Offender POV" on criminal justice.

I'm intrigued. What the F does that even mean?
You are concerned primarily with the experience and needs of the perpetrator of a crime and have no regard for the damage done to and the experience of the vicitims.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: We are accountable for the harm we cause.
... unless we are looting and lynching.... unless we kill cops.
Who was lynched? And how is that egg on your face feel after you brought up, and totally misrepresented Micah Xavier Johnson as being a BLM protester?

IBdaMann wrote:Please define clearly and unambiguously this "racial identity."
Same question at the top of the post RE: Plessy V Ferguson.

Into the Night wrote:It depends on the circumstances surrounding the incident.
Exactly! A Hate Crime law establishes a consideration of bigotry being a special circumstance. Where it's passed into law it is the law.
Edited on 30-06-2020 08:23
30-06-2020 08:28
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13780)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: Has there ever been a problem of racism in the US in your opinion?

Yes. Specifically past tense.
So around when, what year/s, did racism in the US cease to be a problem?
It is still a problem. Racists like you are still around.
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: Is the term "colored people" well defined for you?

Not at all.

So how do you think they managed with segregation? Here's a quote from Plessy v. Ferguson (not overturned until 1954):
"This case turns upon the constitutionality of an act of the general assembly of the state of Louisiana, passed in 1890, providing for separate railway carriages for the white and colored races. Acts 1890, No. 111, p. 152."

How do you suppose they managed to discuss this so plainly in court but you're confused IBD?

RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: You did neglect to address the issue I presented though.
...refresh my memory...The only evaluation of the crime is binary: "Guilty" or "Not Guilty."
That a Sikh man would be punched by bigots attacking him for being in their words a "terrorist rag head" should be considered a more severe crime than a punch without special circumstances. You see we are not talking about "Guilty"/"Not Guilty" with a "Hate CRIME" as distinguished from just a "Crime". Of COURSE you must prove that a crime was committed first. The "Hate Crime" comes into play with the punishment. And "Special Circumstances" are a well recognized and understood part of our criminal justice system:

Nope. Such laws are unconstitutional according to the 14th amendment.
tmiddles wrote:
...deleted Holy Link...

Wikipedia is not a valid source or the constitution of the United States.
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: You would both seem to have very "Offender POV" on criminal justice.

I'm intrigued. What the F does that even mean?
You are concerned primarily with the experience and needs of the perpetrator of a crime and have no regard for the damage done to and the experience of the vicitims.

Word salad. Try English. It works better.
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: We are accountable for the harm we cause.
... unless we are looting and lynching.... unless we kill cops.
Who was lynched?

Irrelevant. Contextomy fallacy.
tmiddles wrote:
And how is that egg on your face feel after you brought up, and totally misrepresented Micah Xavier Johnson as being a BLM protester?

RQAA.
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:Please define clearly and unambiguously this "racial identity."
Same question at the top of the post RE: Plessy V Ferguson.

Contextomy fallacy. This case does not define 'racial identity'.
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:It depends on the circumstances surrounding the incident.
Exactly! A Hate Crime law establishes a consideration of bigotry being a special circumstance.

Nope. Such a law is unconstitutional.
tmiddles wrote:
Where it's passed into law it is the law.

Nope. An unconstitutional law is not a valid law. It can be ignored.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
30-06-2020 08:33
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:A Hate Crime law establishes a consideration of bigotry being a special circumstance.
Such a law is unconstitutional.
Why?
30-06-2020 11:21
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tgoebbles wrote: So how do you think they managed with segregation?

Why are you asking me? You are the one who apparently understands whereas I do not. Let's do this the right way and have me ask you:

What were they thinking during segregation? How did they determine who was to be separated from whom? What definitions did they use?

tgoebbles wrote: 1/8th African-American heritage.

This is absurd. So race is determined by heritage? How did they measure "1/8th" I hope you aren't going to tell me that it involves "other people" besides the person in question.

tgoebbles wrote: He looked "white" and the case was deliberately brought as a test of the law. Legally though he was considered "colored".

So there was a legal definition then. Why didn't you just say so? Just tell me what legal definition they used.

tgoebbles wrote: How do you suppose they managed to discuss this so plainly in court but you're confused IBD?

Did you just ask me how stupid things could be argued in court? I take it that you don't imagine that our highest court would ever listen to arguments about a fruit being a vegetable, and then rule that the fruit is a vegetable. You wouldn't buy it, would you?

tgoebbles wrote: You see we are not talking about "Guilty"/"Not Guilty" with a "Hate CRIME" as distinguished from just a "Crime".

I answered your question. I consider it unconscionable to pretend to outlaw thoughts. "Hate" crimes are nothing more than the rendering illegal of certain thoughts and then accusing someone of those illegal thoughts.

The entire concept should be abolished. Accusations need to be limited to actions. Circumstances are considered during sentencing. The circumstance of what someone was thinking when perpetrating a crime is irrelevant to whether or not the crime was committed and since all thoughts and emotions are legal there can be no additional crime charged for what one was thinking or feeling, ever.

tgoebbles wrote: You are concerned primarily with the experience and needs of the perpetrator of a crime and have no regard for the damage done to and the experience of the vicitims.

Oh, then you are WRONG!

Read the Constitution. It lays out protections for We the People so that We the People cannot be rounded up arbitrarily and capriciously by a tyrannical government and made to rot in jail without a fair trial. You, however, want the government to have the power to imprison We the People for whatever whimisical reason, even for accusations of having thought something that the government has declared politically incorrect.

Your idealized utopia is the stuff of nightmares.

tgoebbles wrote: And how is that egg on your face feel after you brought up, and totally misrepresented Micah Xavier Johnson as being a BLM protester?

No egg on my face. Your desperation to drown in denial is clear. I know you felt obligated to try to fool me on the off chance that you might be successful ... but that didn't happen.

By the way, Black Lives Matter is not a new organization that formed when George Zimmerman defended himself. It is merely a new name for an organization that has been around for decades and it is no coincidence that it carries the same symbol as socialism. Yes, Micah Johnson was a member, big time. In fact while he was holed up by the police in a garage he rattled off the then current BLM platform/mantra which was about cops killing "blacks" and that hasn't really changed.

... but nice try.

tgoebbles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:It depends on the circumstances surrounding the incident.
Exactly! A Hate Crime law establishes a consideration of [what someone is thinking] being [an additional crime]. Where it's passed into law it is the law.

Where it is made law, it is illegal because thoughts cannot be made illegal.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-06-2020 17:14
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:..."black people"...there isn't any such definition...there is no problem of racism in the US.
gfm7175 wrote:Define "black people".
Has there ever been a problem of racism in the US in your opinion? If so what was different then as opposed to now?

tmiddlesC8. RQAA.

tmiddles wrote:
In our history there was slavery, laws against interracial relationships, private legal contracts against selling real estate or renting based on race, segregation laws about where you could eat, walk or enter a building based on race.

It doesn't seem to me that millions of people had any trouble defining "black people" when they were called "colored people":

tmiddlesC8. Continued evasion. Define "black people".

tmiddles wrote:
Is the term "colored people" well defined for you?

No. Define "colored people".

tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:I don't know what you speak of.
Which part?
"racial identity", whatever that means.
You don't understand how a person can have a racial identity? We can talk about it if you'd like. You realize of course I didn't just invent the concept here.

Define "racial identity".
30-06-2020 19:25
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:
Why are you asking me?....
This is absurd. So race is determined by heritage?
gfm7175 wrote:
Define "colored people".
If you don't live in the US and are oblivious to our history then proclaiming that racism ended here is really beyond the scope of your knowledge.

You know they were able to determine who could be enslaved based on race too.

Do your own research to support your own claims.

IBdaMann wrote:
"Hate" crimes are nothing more than the rendering illegal of certain thoughts and then accusing someone of those illegal thoughts.
No those are laws against "Hate Speech". A "Hate Crime" law gives special circumstances to a crime, like assault. It is all about sentencing and the jurisdiction and level of the crime. So assault can become a federal offense. The damage done to the victim is the reason for the special circumstances. You are probably one of those people who considers rape a minor crime when there aren't severe physical injuries.

IBdaMann wrote:
Yes, Micah Johnson was a member, big time. .
You are a shameless liar. Making up facts, fake quotes and misrepresenting photos.
Edited on 30-06-2020 19:29
30-06-2020 20:57
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tgoebbles wrote: If you don't live in the US and are oblivious to our history then proclaiming that racism ended here is really beyond the scope of your knowledge.

Aaaah, I was waiting for the this completely anticipated dishonesty. I knew you would wait two or three posts to completely shift the goalposts and change "problem of racism" to "all racism."

Yes, I knew you would do it and I let you walk into the ambush. You've been caught. You have been DQ'ed.

tgoebbles wrote: You know they were able to determine who could be enslaved based on race too.

Who are "they" and what definition of "race" did "they" use? You have no shortage of meaningless terms that you can sling without any defintion.

Of course, you are summarily dismissed when you do.

tgoebbles wrote: No those are laws against "Hate Speech". A "Hate Crime" law gives special circumstances to a crime, like assault.

You are simply exchanging the word "circumstance" for "having politically incorrect thoughts or emotions" ... which are entirely legal.

You are trying to bypass the legislature and render the completely legal into being completely illegal. You are trying to give the courts the power to ignore the Constitution so they can convert the US into cross between Venezuela and Afghanistan.

You are WRONG! You are dismissed.

tgoebbles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote: Yes, Micah Johnson was a member, big time. .
You are a shameless liar. Making up facts, fake quotes and misrepresenting photos.

You are a pathetic gullible tool who is doomed to be a racist slave. Enjoy!

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-06-2020 22:07
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1325)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Why are you asking me?....
This is absurd. So race is determined by heritage?
gfm7175 wrote:
Define "colored people".
If you don't live in the US and are oblivious to our history then proclaiming that racism ended here is really beyond the scope of your knowledge.

tmiddlesC8. Continued evasion.

Mantra 22. Define "colored people". Define "black people". Define "white people". Answer IBD's question to you: (So race is determined by heritage?)

tmiddles wrote:
You know they were able to determine who could be enslaved based on race too.

Mantra 22. Who is "they"?

tmiddles wrote:
Do your own research to support your own claims.

Mantra 17.

tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
"Hate" crimes are nothing more than the rendering illegal of certain thoughts and then accusing someone of those illegal thoughts.
No those are laws against "Hate Speech". A "Hate Crime" law gives special circumstances to a crime, like assault. It is all about sentencing and the jurisdiction and level of the crime. So assault can become a federal offense. The damage done to the victim is the reason for the special circumstances.

Mantras 19b, 19c.

tmiddles wrote:
You are probably one of those people who considers rape a minor crime when there aren't severe physical injuries.

Mantra 30.

tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Yes, Micah Johnson was a member, big time. .
You are a shameless liar. Making up facts, fake quotes and misrepresenting photos.

Mantras 1, 10c, 38a

No valid argumentation presented.
30-06-2020 23:23
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:...I knew you would ...shift ...to "all racism."
Oh I know that you and GFM believe the only significant racism today is affirmative action and BLM/DNC racism perpetrated against those they call "white people".

We were and are talking about about racism perpetrated against black people.

You and GFM seem to think a clever ploy is to pretend I invented this.

I have shared with you some of the US history you should have already known but seem clueless about.

You have not answered my question as to when you believe this racism ended. Or maybe you don't think even slavery was racist? I don't know you're pretty nutty.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: You know they were able to determine who could be enslaved based on race too.

Who are "they" and what definition of "race" did "they" use?
gfm7175 wrote:Define "colored people"
"They" would have been slave owner, traders, courts and our government. You don't deny that slavery existed do you?

I believe they defined it based on lineage/blood legally.

But here's an example of a Virginia law if you're really interested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_Integrity_Act_of_1924 (not repealed until 1967)
They refer to "colored blood" and "The Act classified all non-whites, including Native Americans, as "colored."[2]"

As I've said already my definition of the categories and labels applied by other people is simply to recognize they have made those determinations.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: No those are laws against "Hate Speech". A "Hate Crime" law gives special circumstances to a crime, like assault.

You are simply exchanging the word "circumstance" for "having politically incorrect thoughts or emotions" ... which are entirely legal.
No a crime is committed which is not speech: Assault for example. But pretend you didn't catch that again. I would have thought you'd take enough of interest in Hate Crime laws not to need me to explain them to you.

IBdaMann wrote:You are trying to bypass the legislature
Hate Crime laws are passed by the legislature. Georgia being one of the last to do so. Just 3 states left I believe.
Edited on 30-06-2020 23:30
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