Too much scaling up these days

HarveyH55 wrote:
Housing... I got a strange letter from the 'Florida Department of State, Division of Historic Resources' about my home. For some reason, they want to enter my home in the National Historic Registry. Didn't give any details of why my property is of any historical significance. It was built in 1946, and bought and lived in it since 1992. It's just a house, never heard any stories of anything interesting about it. The city has been trying for decades to create a downtown historical district, for grant money. My property is just inside the area they want to designate. It's a small town, and really nothing noteworthy.

GasGuzzler wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:
Housing... I got a strange letter from the 'Florida Department of State, Division of Historic Resources' about my home. For some reason, they want to enter my home in the National Historic Registry. Didn't give any details of why my property is of any historical significance. It was built in 1946, and bought and lived in it since 1992. It's just a house, never heard any stories of anything interesting about it. The city has been trying for decades to create a downtown historical district, for grant money. My property is just inside the area they want to designate. It's a small town, and really nothing noteworthy.

Don't do it! My sister and her husband were dumb enough to buy a historical society house, on the cheap. Needed total renovation. They need 6 permits and written permission to replace a downspout. I'm exaggerating, but seriously, they must follow certain guidelines and materials lists for what they can do with a home they own.

keepit wrote:
For example -
Putin and ukraine , how is that working out?
Trump - how is all of that working out?
FTX - Not working out so well either.
Musk - tesla and twitter are having problems as well.
Millions of homebuyers - So many of them trying to improve their housing situation that prices have jumped 40% during the last 2 years. It turns into a big problem for many people.
Even representative santos tried to scale up his life. what a joke he is.

It's like scaling up is the way to go in life for many people.

James_ wrote:
What people often overlook is when is having it good "good enough"?

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
What people often overlook is when is having it good "good enough"?

Only I can decide that for myself and no one should ever attempt to tell when I do or don't have enough.
Yes, socialism is evil. It attempts equality by theft of those with more and giving it to those with less, only after first feeding it's own appetite for power.

Capitalism on the other hand, creates opportunity for those with less to gain more through work or ingenuity, or both. The really cool part is people with more get even more, so everyone participating is happy.

If you and your power tools are good enough, then good for you. You've "made it" and won't be asking me to pay for anything you want.

PS. I may have overlooked a few more errors you stated about capitalism, but hey, I need to go make some money so I can buy more stuff. I actually don't have everything. There are three items remaining that I still don't have.

James_ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
What people often overlook is when is having it good "good enough"?

Only I can decide that for myself and no one should ever attempt to tell when I do or don't have enough.
Yes, socialism is evil. It attempts equality by theft of those with more and giving it to those with less, only after first feeding it's own appetite for power.

Capitalism on the other hand, creates opportunity for those with less to gain more through work or ingenuity, or both. The really cool part is people with more get even more, so everyone participating is happy.

If you and your power tools are good enough, then good for you. You've "made it" and won't be asking me to pay for anything you want.

PS. I may have overlooked a few more errors you stated about capitalism, but hey, I need to go make some money so I can buy more stuff. I actually don't have everything. There are three items remaining that I still don't have.

Is this how socialism keeps people from prospering? Strange how the U.S. has no car that is close to what is made in a socialist country.
p.s., And Trump having illegal immigrant grandparents is what made MAGA. It's the illegal German immigrant and those of the 3rd Reich that made America great.
Search German rocket scientist and the answer is Wernher von Braun. He created NASA. That is very well known. Like Einstein is known for relativity, von Braun is known for rocket science. Both lived in Germany at the same time. Maybe we need to quit following Germany?

HarveyH55 wrote:

James_ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
What people often overlook is when is having it good "good enough"?

Only I can decide that for myself and no one should ever attempt to tell when I do or don't have enough.
Yes, socialism is evil. It attempts equality by theft of those with more and giving it to those with less, only after first feeding it's own appetite for power.

Capitalism on the other hand, creates opportunity for those with less to gain more through work or ingenuity, or both. The really cool part is people with more get even more, so everyone participating is happy.

If you and your power tools are good enough, then good for you. You've "made it" and won't be asking me to pay for anything you want.

PS. I may have overlooked a few more errors you stated about capitalism, but hey, I need to go make some money so I can buy more stuff. I actually don't have everything. There are three items remaining that I still don't have.

Is this how socialism keeps people from prospering? Strange how the U.S. has no car that is close to what is made in a socialist country.
p.s., And Trump having illegal immigrant grandparents is what made MAGA. It's the illegal German immigrant and those of the 3rd Reich that made America great.
Search German rocket scientist and the answer is Wernher von Braun. He created NASA. That is very well known. Like Einstein is known for relativity, von Braun is known for rocket science. Both lived in Germany at the same time. Maybe we need to quit following Germany?

Cute toy car... Can every Norwegian afford to drive one? Looks a little small for me. Not that I can't drive most anything with wheels, I'm 6'4", and prefer room to stretch out. That's what's great about capitalism. Not everyone has to own the same things, or limited to a few options.

James_ wrote:
America should be a little nicer towards those who aren't as powerful.

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
America should be a little nicer towards those who aren't as powerful.

Who and what is to blame for this American position of strength?

James_ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
America should be a little nicer towards those who aren't as powerful.

Who and what is to blame for this American position of strength?

Other countries buying the American dollar. If they buy the Euro instead then the EU will become America.

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
America should be a little nicer towards those who aren't as powerful.

Who and what is to blame for this American position of strength?

Other countries buying the American dollar. If they buy the Euro instead then the EU will become America.

...and what shall we blame the strength of the dollar on?

James_ wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:

James_ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
What people often overlook is when is having it good "good enough"?

Only I can decide that for myself and no one should ever attempt to tell when I do or don't have enough.
Yes, socialism is evil. It attempts equality by theft of those with more and giving it to those with less, only after first feeding it's own appetite for power.

Capitalism on the other hand, creates opportunity for those with less to gain more through work or ingenuity, or both. The really cool part is people with more get even more, so everyone participating is happy.

If you and your power tools are good enough, then good for you. You've "made it" and won't be asking me to pay for anything you want.

PS. I may have overlooked a few more errors you stated about capitalism, but hey, I need to go make some money so I can buy more stuff. I actually don't have everything. There are three items remaining that I still don't have.

Is this how socialism keeps people from prospering? Strange how the U.S. has no car that is close to what is made in a socialist country.
p.s., And Trump having illegal immigrant grandparents is what made MAGA. It's the illegal German immigrant and those of the 3rd Reich that made America great.
Search German rocket scientist and the answer is Wernher von Braun. He created NASA. That is very well known. Like Einstein is known for relativity, von Braun is known for rocket science. Both lived in Germany at the same time. Maybe we need to quit following Germany?

Cute toy car... Can every Norwegian afford to drive one? Looks a little small for me. Not that I can't drive most anything with wheels, I'm 6'4", and prefer room to stretch out. That's what's great about capitalism. Not everyone has to own the same things, or limited to a few options.

When a cheap model costs $3.65 million, can you afford socialism?
Socialism ain't cheap.

GasGuzzler wrote:Only I can decide that for myself and no one should ever attempt to tell when I do or don't have enough.

GasGuzzler wrote:Yes, socialism is evil. It attempts equality by theft of those with more and giving it to those with less, only after first feeding it's own appetite for power.

GasGuzzler wrote:Capitalism on the other hand, creates opportunity for those with less to gain more through work or ingenuity, or both.

GasGuzzler wrote: There are three items remaining that I still don't have.

[quote]IBdaMann wrote:
I'm going to quibble with your wording.

IBdaMann wrote:
I claim that there is never any effort to give more to those with less. There is only the claim of giving more to those with less, as a play on the gullible masses to let the Marxism do their thinking for them

IBdaMann wrote:
Modern day Marxists HATE sports, believing that sports are used to indoctrinate children into sound economic principles by focusing their impressionable minds on understanding competition and on doing what is needed to win

IBdaMann wrote:
I have two secret items with which I am waiting to surprise you the moment you think you have acquired everything, and I'm going to be there with my camera so I can capture the look on your face. You're going down.

HarveyH55 wrote:

James_ wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:

James_ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
What people often overlook is when is having it good "good enough"?

Only I can decide that for myself and no one should ever attempt to tell when I do or don't have enough.
Yes, socialism is evil. It attempts equality by theft of those with more and giving it to those with less, only after first feeding it's own appetite for power.

Capitalism on the other hand, creates opportunity for those with less to gain more through work or ingenuity, or both. The really cool part is people with more get even more, so everyone participating is happy.

If you and your power tools are good enough, then good for you. You've "made it" and won't be asking me to pay for anything you want.

PS. I may have overlooked a few more errors you stated about capitalism, but hey, I need to go make some money so I can buy more stuff. I actually don't have everything. There are three items remaining that I still don't have.

Is this how socialism keeps people from prospering? Strange how the U.S. has no car that is close to what is made in a socialist country.
p.s., And Trump having illegal immigrant grandparents is what made MAGA. It's the illegal German immigrant and those of the 3rd Reich that made America great.
Search German rocket scientist and the answer is Wernher von Braun. He created NASA. That is very well known. Like Einstein is known for relativity, von Braun is known for rocket science. Both lived in Germany at the same time. Maybe we need to quit following Germany?

Cute toy car... Can every Norwegian afford to drive one? Looks a little small for me. Not that I can't drive most anything with wheels, I'm 6'4", and prefer room to stretch out. That's what's great about capitalism. Not everyone has to own the same things, or limited to a few options.

When a cheap model costs $3.65 million, can you afford socialism?
Socialism ain't cheap.

So, that would be what the 'elite' class drive. What would the average, peasant class drive? Something with two legs? Least, before they had to slaughter it, before starving to death. Does socialist health insurance put food on the table, for those suffering malnutrition?

Cars that like that have only on use. Something you can drive around, advertising that you are rich and privileged. Nothing more than a frivolous toy. Even if I was an elitist, doubt that car would interest me.

James_ wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:

James_ wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:

James_ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
What people often overlook is when is having it good "good enough"?

Only I can decide that for myself and no one should ever attempt to tell when I do or don't have enough.
Yes, socialism is evil. It attempts equality by theft of those with more and giving it to those with less, only after first feeding it's own appetite for power.

Capitalism on the other hand, creates opportunity for those with less to gain more through work or ingenuity, or both. The really cool part is people with more get even more, so everyone participating is happy.

If you and your power tools are good enough, then good for you. You've "made it" and won't be asking me to pay for anything you want.

PS. I may have overlooked a few more errors you stated about capitalism, but hey, I need to go make some money so I can buy more stuff. I actually don't have everything. There are three items remaining that I still don't have.

Is this how socialism keeps people from prospering? Strange how the U.S. has no car that is close to what is made in a socialist country.
p.s., And Trump having illegal immigrant grandparents is what made MAGA. It's the illegal German immigrant and those of the 3rd Reich that made America great.
Search German rocket scientist and the answer is Wernher von Braun. He created NASA. That is very well known. Like Einstein is known for relativity, von Braun is known for rocket science. Both lived in Germany at the same time. Maybe we need to quit following Germany?

Cute toy car... Can every Norwegian afford to drive one? Looks a little small for me. Not that I can't drive most anything with wheels, I'm 6'4", and prefer room to stretch out. That's what's great about capitalism. Not everyone has to own the same things, or limited to a few options.

When a cheap model costs $3.65 million, can you afford socialism?
Socialism ain't cheap.

So, that would be what the 'elite' class drive. What would the average, peasant class drive? Something with two legs? Least, before they had to slaughter it, before starving to death. Does socialist health insurance put food on the table, for those suffering malnutrition?

Cars that like that have only on use. Something you can drive around, advertising that you are rich and privileged. Nothing more than a frivolous toy. Even if I was an elitist, doubt that car would interest me.

The standard of living in Norway and Sweden is comparable to the U.S. but with better healthcare.

James_ wrote:
I might move to Indonesia myself.

James_ wrote:
It'd be nice to get away from "pure" English speakers who can only talk about how good they are.

James_ wrote:
And in a sign of the times there is this;
Great Salt Lake will disappear in 5 years without massive 'emergency rescue,' scientists say
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/us/great-salt-lake-disappearing-drought-climate/index.html

James_ wrote:
Yep, capitalism hasn't figured out how to solve water shortages.

GasGuzzler wrote:

I'm a pure English speaker. Only Swan talks about how good he is. I only speak of how good we have it here in the states.

James_ wrote:
And in a sign of the times there is this;
Great Salt Lake will disappear in 5 years without massive 'emergency rescue,' scientists say
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/us/great-salt-lake-disappearing-drought-climate/index.html

Seriously? You are going to buy into this fear mongering. You are gullible.

HarveyH55 wrote:
Water shortages are mostly mis-management of natural resources. California often complains about drought, well least until last week. Now, it's flooding, mudslides... Few months, it will be drought, and wildfires as usual. Fresh water falls from the sky often enough. Most places have channeled/directed most of it to run-off to river/streams, and out to sea, quickly as they can to avoid flooding, or puddles of standing water. They know they are going to need water later in the year, but make no effort to store any of the surplus rainfall they get.

The aquifer will be fine. If it were an unreliable source of water, fewer people are going to bother trying to tap into it. They'll abandon using it, and find an alternative. It'll recover, naturally, over time. Food prices won't skyrocket, since we import quite a bit of it. Testament of how screwed up our government has become. US farmers can make any profit, because imports are cheaper. All the rules, regulations, minimum wage, fines for using illegal laborers... The government subsidizes certain crops, that store and ship well, like grains. Always in demand around the world, and a political bargaining tool.

Mankind has always found the resources they need, exploit the source into non-existence, they looked else where to gratify their needs. We are lazy animals, and hate doing any more work, than absolutely necessary to reach our goals.

James_ wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:
Water shortages are mostly mis-management of natural resources. California often complains about drought, well least until last week. Now, it's flooding, mudslides... Few months, it will be drought, and wildfires as usual. Fresh water falls from the sky often enough. Most places have channeled/directed most of it to run-off to river/streams, and out to sea, quickly as they can to avoid flooding, or puddles of standing water. They know they are going to need water later in the year, but make no effort to store any of the surplus rainfall they get.

The aquifer will be fine. If it were an unreliable source of water, fewer people are going to bother trying to tap into it. They'll abandon using it, and find an alternative. It'll recover, naturally, over time. Food prices won't skyrocket, since we import quite a bit of it. Testament of how screwed up our government has become. US farmers can make any profit, because imports are cheaper. All the rules, regulations, minimum wage, fines for using illegal laborers... The government subsidizes certain crops, that store and ship well, like grains. Always in demand around the world, and a political bargaining tool.

Mankind has always found the resources they need, exploit the source into non-existence, they looked else where to gratify their needs. We are lazy animals, and hate doing any more work, than absolutely necessary to reach our goals.

No amount of salad dressing would make that word salad palatable.

HarveyH55 wrote:How's the Bessler Wheel working theses days?

HarveyH55 wrote: People are getting desperate for a reliable source of free-energy.

James_ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

I'm a pure English speaker. Only Swan talks about how good he is. I only speak of how good we have it here in the states.

James_ wrote:
And in a sign of the times there is this;
Great Salt Lake will disappear in 5 years without massive 'emergency rescue,' scientists say
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/us/great-salt-lake-disappearing-drought-climate/index.html

Seriously? You are going to buy into this fear mongering. You are gullible.

GiGi, I think you're a bigot. As a "real" American, you don't need to learn what you're talking about. I find this hysterically funny.

You say climate change doesn't happen when in the northern hemisphere it is well known that there is natural climate variance.
But you're not gullible. If you were then you could say the warming now is what happens after it's been cold for several hundred years. But you're not smart enough to say that.
Instead you say there was no Little Ice Age and no Medieval Warm period when
they build cathedrals across Europe. The warmer weather allowed for a more prosperous people.
And yet you're not gullible. You are gullible (or is that just plain stupid?) if you don't believe that there isn't natural climate variance.

Into the Night wrote:

James_ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

I'm a pure English speaker. Only Swan talks about how good he is. I only speak of how good we have it here in the states.

James_ wrote:
And in a sign of the times there is this;
Great Salt Lake will disappear in 5 years without massive 'emergency rescue,' scientists say
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/us/great-salt-lake-disappearing-drought-climate/index.html

Seriously? You are going to buy into this fear mongering. You are gullible.

GiGi, I think you're a bigot. As a "real" American, you don't need to learn what you're talking about. I find this hysterically funny.

You say climate change doesn't happen when in the northern hemisphere it is well known that there is natural climate variance.
But you're not gullible. If you were then you could say the warming now is what happens after it's been cold for several hundred years. But you're not smart enough to say that.
Instead you say there was no Little Ice Age and no Medieval Warm period when
they build cathedrals across Europe. The warmer weather allowed for a more prosperous people.
And yet you're not gullible. You are gullible (or is that just plain stupid?) if you don't believe that there isn't natural climate variance.

What value is changing?? Climate has no values!

This is a story about a Viking mountain pass that has been buried under ice for about 1,000 years. It shows it has been this warm before.
Archaeologists from the University of Cambridge in the UK and NTNU University Museum in Norway used radiocarbon dating on at least 60 artifacts from the site, suggesting the mountain pass was used by humans for over millennia, between 300 CE and 1500 CE. This also indicated that the mountain pass was most widely used around 1000 CE during the Viking Age, a time in Scandinavian history when Norsemen expanded their influence across Europe and beyond through trade.
https://www.iflscience.com/melting-glacier-reveals-longlost-viking-mountain-pass-and-ancient-relics-55688

HarveyH55 wrote:
To put the whole climate issue at rest... When has planet Earth not been changing? Correlation/consensus is not causation. For as long as anyone can tell, the planet has been shifting and changing, from the beginning. Whether is from the book of Genesis, or any other textbook.

Meanwhile, more evidence of apocalyptic climate change... It rained in California, a deluge of biblical proportion. Punishment for their carbon-sins.

HarveyH55 wrote:To put the whole climate issue at rest... When has planet Earth not been changing?

HarveyH55 wrote: Correlation/consensus is not causation.

HarveyH55 wrote: For as long as anyone can tell, the planet has been shifting and changing, from the beginning.

HarveyH55 wrote: Whether is from the book of Genesis, or any other textbook.

HarveyH55 wrote:Meanwhile, more evidence of apocalyptic climate change... It rained in California, a deluge of biblical proportion. Punishment for their carbon-sins.

James_ wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

James_ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

I'm a pure English speaker. Only Swan talks about how good he is. I only speak of how good we have it here in the states.

James_ wrote:
And in a sign of the times there is this;
Great Salt Lake will disappear in 5 years without massive 'emergency rescue,' scientists say
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/us/great-salt-lake-disappearing-drought-climate/index.html

Seriously? You are going to buy into this fear mongering. You are gullible.

GiGi, I think you're a bigot. As a "real" American, you don't need to learn what you're talking about. I find this hysterically funny.

You say climate change doesn't happen when in the northern hemisphere it is well known that there is natural climate variance.
But you're not gullible. If you were then you could say the warming now is what happens after it's been cold for several hundred years. But you're not smart enough to say that.
Instead you say there was no Little Ice Age and no Medieval Warm period when
they build cathedrals across Europe. The warmer weather allowed for a more prosperous people.
And yet you're not gullible. You are gullible (or is that just plain stupid?) if you don't believe that there isn't natural climate variance.

What value is changing?? Climate has no values!

I think when the atmosphere is colder in the northern hemisphere and there are more glaciers and sea ice extent, those lower temperatures show a value that influences the climate.
But you're here because of your political beliefs. You guys who say that climate change doesn't happen are unable to say it is warmer now that 300 years ago and
then 800 to 1,100 years ago it is warm now as it was then.

This is a story about a Viking mountain pass that has been buried under ice for about 1,000 years. It shows it has been this warm before.
Archaeologists from the University of Cambridge in the UK and NTNU University Museum in Norway used radiocarbon dating on at least 60 artifacts from the site, suggesting the mountain pass was used by humans for over millennia, between 300 CE and 1500 CE. This also indicated that the mountain pass was most widely used around 1000 CE during the Viking Age, a time in Scandinavian history when Norsemen expanded their influence across Europe and beyond through trade.
https://www.iflscience.com/melting-glacier-reveals-longlost-viking-mountain-pass-and-ancient-relics-55688

That it was open for about 1,200 years suggests that it was this warm during all that time. This image is years before present.

IBdaMann wrote:

Rational analysis does not apply when the belief is religious or involves the supernatural, e.g. the global climate. In such cases, all speculation is fair game and no one is required to buy into it.

HarveyH55 wrote:
To put the whole climate issue at rest... When has planet Earth not been changing? Correlation/consensus is not causation. For as long as anyone can tell, the planet has been shifting and changing, from the beginning. Whether is from the book of Genesis, or any other textbook.

Meanwhile, more evidence of apocalyptic climate change... It rained in California, a deluge of biblical proportion. Punishment for their carbon-sins.

James_ wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Rational analysis does not apply when the belief is religious or involves the supernatural, e.g. the global climate. In such cases, all speculation is fair game and no one is required to buy into it.

And Texas freezing in 2021 probably started with bushfires in Australia in 2019/20.
That suggests a cause and effect. Yet you're here to promote your political beliefs
and say that only politics has meaning.

James_ wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:
To put the whole climate issue at rest... When has planet Earth not been changing? Correlation/consensus is not causation. For as long as anyone can tell, the planet has been shifting and changing, from the beginning. Whether is from the book of Genesis, or any other textbook.

Meanwhile, more evidence of apocalyptic climate change... It rained in California, a deluge of biblical proportion. Punishment for their carbon-sins.

Think Ferengi and how they say hoo'man when you ignore what Darwin said.
Something about hoo'mans having the ability to adapt. In order to adapt it needs
to be understood what adaptation is necessary to support hoo'man evolution.
I happen to find geosciences interesting. After all, I realized that when a mountain pass had opened again that it has been this warm before.
What you forget about are people. Montana farmers might suffer as a result of climate change. How to adapt so they can keep the family farm which might provide you with what you're eating? You can say import so helping Americans doesn't matter. That is so American. Screw the farmer because we can import produce and grain. And this is why America is the greatest country in the world.

gfm7175 wrote:
Apparently natural gas stoves are "evil" now, per the Church of Green... There are now louder whispers from Feds to ban them in this nation.

Into the Night wrote:

gfm7175 wrote:
Apparently natural gas stoves are "evil" now, per the Church of Green... There are now louder whispers from Feds to ban them in this nation.

Guess it's back to burning wood! MUCH better than clean burning natural gas or propane!

What is the idiot Biden going to do? Try to drive every natural gas supplier and every propane supplier out of business? Do you really think THAT's going to happen without a fight?

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

gfm7175 wrote:
Apparently natural gas stoves are "evil" now, per the Church of Green... There are now louder whispers from Feds to ban them in this nation.

Guess it's back to burning wood! MUCH better than clean burning natural gas or propane!

What is the idiot Biden going to do? Try to drive every natural gas supplier and every propane supplier out of business? Do you really think THAT's going to happen without a fight?

I don't think Democrats care if business owners put up a fight or not. All they want is for businesses to fail and for society to become further and further dependent upon them.

gfm7175 wrote:
Apparently natural gas stoves are "evil" now, per the Church of Green... There are now louder whispers from Feds to ban them in this nation.

Into the Night wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

gfm7175 wrote:
Apparently natural gas stoves are "evil" now, per the Church of Green... There are now louder whispers from Feds to ban them in this nation.

Guess it's back to burning wood! MUCH better than clean burning natural gas or propane!

What is the idiot Biden going to do? Try to drive every natural gas supplier and every propane supplier out of business? Do you really think THAT's going to happen without a fight?

I don't think Democrats care if business owners put up a fight or not. All they want is for businesses to fail and for society to become further and further dependent upon them.

It is obvious they don't care about anyone or anything but themselves.