Maximizing Carbon Sequestration in Terrestrial Agroecosystems

James_ wrote:
According to the EPA, N2O (nitrous oxide) has a 300 times greater impact on global warming than CO2 does. CO2 is 79% of GHG emissions while N2O is only 7%.
A little math tell us .79 x 1 = .79 Then
.............................07 x 300 = 21
We have a winner folks. 21 is always a winer in Vegas but what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
If not, why go to Vegas to gamble and party? Right folks? So 21 is always a winner in Vegas.
And now we're back to ODSs and ozone depletion. And CO2 is helping the ozone layer to recover.
Kind of makes me feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If3SXJeZzMQ

Im a BM wrote:

James_ wrote:
According to the EPA, N2O (nitrous oxide) has a 300 times greater impact on global warming than CO2 does. CO2 is 79% of GHG emissions while N2O is only 7%.
A little math tell us .79 x 1 = .79 Then
.............................07 x 300 = 21
We have a winner folks. 21 is always a winer in Vegas but what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
If not, why go to Vegas to gamble and party? Right folks? So 21 is always a winner in Vegas.
And now we're back to ODSs and ozone depletion. And CO2 is helping the ozone layer to recover.
Kind of makes me feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If3SXJeZzMQ

I was surprised to see EPA saying nitrous oxide has 300 times as much global warming potential as CO2.

The people I knew who were researching it were estimating about 200, but that was more than 10 years ago.

The easy part is to use spectroscopy in a lab and compare carbon dioxide to nitrous oxide.

That will tell you, gram per gram or mole per mole, how much more capable nitrous oxide is compared to carbon dioxide to absorb and emit infrared.

You can get an exact answer out to the tenth decimal place.

But the hard part is to know how long the gases remain in the atmosphere.

To calculate global warming potential (GWP), you have to have a mean residence time for the gas in the air.

An incredibly powerful greenhouse gas will have little impact if it is removed from the atmosphere as soon as it is emitted.

For the number to have shifted from 200 to 300 means that someone has decided that either carbon dioxide has a shorter mean residence time than previously believed, or that nitrous oxide hangs around longer than they used to think.

I'm surprised if it is the second, because they were learning about new ways nitrous oxide gets removed.

At the surface, microorganisms can pull it back out of the air and reduce it to ammonia, or oxidize it to nitrate.

High above, it gets consumed through oxidation by ozone, with nitric acid as a major product.

A specific mechanism has been identified whereby this either brings about MORE ozone loss, OR prevents additional ozone loss, depending on how long the nitric acid ice crystals remain suspended.

If the nitric acid crystal just acts as a magnet upon which ozone destroying agents adsorbed, but then pulls them down toward the surface before they have time to react with much ozone, it causes short term ozone loss but then allows for robust recovery as fewer ozone destroying agents are available.

If that nitric acid ice hangs out for a long time before falling, it could be facilitating more ozone destruction than would occur in their absence.

While the simple calculation presented above suggests that nitrous oxide was doing 7% of the about of the anthropogenic global warming (not ozone destruction related), the number in the textbooks used to be more like 16%.

But I've never heard of a mechanism through which carbon dioxide could be protecting the ozone layer. Well, maybe one.

If carbon dioxide is the main gas responsible for global warming and associated stratospheric COOLING, which now permits temperatures cold enough to freeze nitric acid, maybe that how CO2 protects the ozone?

You will get a Nobel prize if you can show a plausible mechanism for CO2 protecting the ozone layer via some direct chemical interaction.

What mechanism do you propose?

Im a BM wrote:

]Into the Night wrote:
Nope. The entire plant is carbohydrates and some proteins.

Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Ignoring the carbohydrates that make up the plant is not going to help you.

Yesterday, Parrot Boy again insists that "lignin is a carbohydrate".

Im a BM wrote:
Apparently, the basis for the infallible authority is because "I work with lignin".

Im a BM wrote:
ANYBODY can do a simple search about what lignin is.

Im a BM wrote:
It is NOT a carbohydrate by any definition in chemistry.

Im a BM wrote:
Lignin is a class of polymeric compounds produced by plants.

Im a BM wrote:
The main component of lignin are aromatic alcohol subunits.

Im a BM wrote:
There is no point for myself, or anyone else for that matter, to respond to the idiotic assertions of someone who doesn't know how to look up definitions for the simplest terms.

Im a BM wrote:
And to stubbornly continue to insist that lignin is a carbohydrate is more than just ignorant.

Im a BM wrote:
It is an **** way to "debate".

It is unworthy of respect.

It deserves no acknowledgement.

Im a BM wrote:
But I'll have fun with the "I work with lignin" (Parrot Boy quote) thing.

I published MY work with lignin 25 years ago, and it continues to be cited to this day.

Im a BM wrote:
I really DID work with lignin.

Im a BM wrote:
Extracting it and measuring it, and cross checking some of the analysis with NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance).

Im a BM wrote:
Other scientists vouch for my work with lignin, citing it as informing their research.

Im a BM wrote:
Parrot Boy is a nothing.

Im a BM wrote:
He can say that lignin is a carbohydrate 1000 times, and it still will be incorrect.

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

Im a BM wrote:The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

How can someone with no formal training in chemistry find out if this assertion is absurd?

The quickest way would be to use an Internet search engine with the question:

"Is lignin a carbohydrate"

The answer is unambiguous and unanimous.

If you want to go deeper might ask:

"What is the difference between lignin and carbohydrate?"

But you will find it swamped with references to "lignin-carbohydrate complexes", rather than something that just distinguishes the two definitions.

Still, this is very revealing. A lignin-carbohydrate complex forms from two different materials combining. As if they were not the same to begin with.

You could check simply:
"definition of carbohydrate" and "definition of lignin".
Even without any chemistry training you will see obvious differences.
For example, for lignin you will see terms like "aromatic" and "phenyl" which are never used in the carbohydrate definitions.

You could check simply:
"chemical formula for carbohydrate" and "chemical formula for lignin"
Even with no training, you can see they are quite different.
All the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 3:1
Nearly all the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-carbon ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 1:1

You could look up:
"chemical structure for carbohydrate" and "chemical structure for lignin"
Even with no training, they do not look very similar.
The lignin is full of hexagons with circles inside them. No carbohydrates do.
The hexagons are the "aromatic" (benzene ring) par of lignin.
Carbohydrates may have hexagons, but no circles inside. Not aromatic. Ever.

The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Or by anyone who actually studied chemistry in the real world.

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

How can someone with no formal training in chemistry find out if this assertion is absurd?

The quickest way would be to use an Internet search engine with the question:

"Is lignin a carbohydrate"

The answer is unambiguous and unanimous.

If you want to go deeper might ask:

"What is the difference between lignin and carbohydrate?"

But you will find it swamped with references to "lignin-carbohydrate complexes", rather than something that just distinguishes the two definitions.

Still, this is very revealing. A lignin-carbohydrate complex forms from two different materials combining. As if they were not the same to begin with.

You could check simply:
"definition of carbohydrate" and "definition of lignin".
Even without any chemistry training you will see obvious differences.
For example, for lignin you will see terms like "aromatic" and "phenyl" which are never used in the carbohydrate definitions.

You could check simply:
"chemical formula for carbohydrate" and "chemical formula for lignin"
Even with no training, you can see they are quite different.
All the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 3:1
Nearly all the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-carbon ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 1:1

You could look up:
"chemical structure for carbohydrate" and "chemical structure for lignin"
Even with no training, they do not look very similar.
The lignin is full of hexagons with circles inside them. No carbohydrates do.
The hexagons are the "aromatic" (benzene ring) par of lignin.
Carbohydrates may have hexagons, but no circles inside. Not aromatic. Ever.

The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Or by anyone who actually studied chemistry in the real world.

Into the Night wrote:
Repairing damaged quoting...apparently you STILL haven't figured out how to quote. You must be a real moron....

Im a BM wrote:

]Into the Night wrote:
Nope. The entire plant is carbohydrates and some proteins.

Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Ignoring the carbohydrates that make up the plant is not going to help you.

Yesterday, Parrot Boy again insists that "lignin is a carbohydrate".

It is.

Im a BM wrote:
Apparently, the basis for the infallible authority is because "I work with lignin".

That I do.

Im a BM wrote:
ANYBODY can do a simple search about what lignin is.

Apparently you never bothered.

Im a BM wrote:
It is NOT a carbohydrate by any definition in chemistry.

Yes it is. I suggest you go read a basic chemistry book and find out what 'carbohydrate' means.

Im a BM wrote:
Lignin is a class of polymeric compounds produced by plants.

It is a carbohydrate.

Im a BM wrote:
The main component of lignin are aromatic alcohol subunits.

Buzzword fallacy. It is a carbohydrate. Alcohol (grain or plant based alcohol, as described here), is also a carbohydrate.

Im a BM wrote:
There is no point for myself, or anyone else for that matter, to respond to the idiotic assertions of someone who doesn't know how to look up definitions for the simplest terms.

You are describing yourself again.

Im a BM wrote:
And to stubbornly continue to insist that lignin is a carbohydrate is more than just ignorant.

Nope. The definition of a carbohydrate in chemistry is very clear and concise. You just deny and discard it.

Im a BM wrote:
It is an **** way to "debate".

It is unworthy of respect.

It deserves no acknowledgement.

There is no debate. The definition is clear and concise. You just deny and discard it.

Im a BM wrote:
But I'll have fun with the "I work with lignin" (Parrot Boy quote) thing.

I published MY work with lignin 25 years ago, and it continues to be cited to this day.

Your 'work' denies and discards chemistry. I have already described why and how. So have others.

Im a BM wrote:
I really DID work with lignin.

I don't believe you.

Im a BM wrote:
Extracting it and measuring it, and cross checking some of the analysis with NMR (nuclear magnetic resonance).

You never did. You are just making shit up now.

Im a BM wrote:
Other scientists vouch for my work with lignin, citing it as informing their research.

You are not a scientist. Neither are any idiots that quote you.

Im a BM wrote:
Parrot Boy is a nothing.

You are describing yourself again.

Im a BM wrote:
He can say that lignin is a carbohydrate 1000 times, and it still will be incorrect.

It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

How can someone with no formal training in chemistry find out if this assertion is absurd?

The quickest way would be to use an Internet search engine with the question:

"Is lignin a carbohydrate"

The answer is unambiguous and unanimous.

If you want to go deeper might ask:

"What is the difference between lignin and carbohydrate?"

But you will find it swamped with references to "lignin-carbohydrate complexes", rather than something that just distinguishes the two definitions.

Still, this is very revealing. A lignin-carbohydrate complex forms from two different materials combining. As if they were not the same to begin with.

You could check simply:
"definition of carbohydrate" and "definition of lignin".
Even without any chemistry training you will see obvious differences.
For example, for lignin you will see terms like "aromatic" and "phenyl" which are never used in the carbohydrate definitions.

You could check simply:
"chemical formula for carbohydrate" and "chemical formula for lignin"
Even with no training, you can see they are quite different.
All the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 3:1
Nearly all the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-carbon ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 1:1

You could look up:
"chemical structure for carbohydrate" and "chemical structure for lignin"
Even with no training, they do not look very similar.
The lignin is full of hexagons with circles inside them. No carbohydrates do.
The hexagons are the "aromatic" (benzene ring) par of lignin.
Carbohydrates may have hexagons, but no circles inside. Not aromatic. Ever.

The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Or by anyone who actually studied chemistry in the real world.

Many carbohydrates do. Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

How can someone with no formal training in chemistry find out if this assertion is absurd?

The quickest way would be to use an Internet search engine with the question:

"Is lignin a carbohydrate"

The answer is unambiguous and unanimous.

If you want to go deeper might ask:

"What is the difference between lignin and carbohydrate?"

But you will find it swamped with references to "lignin-carbohydrate complexes", rather than something that just distinguishes the two definitions.

Still, this is very revealing. A lignin-carbohydrate complex forms from two different materials combining. As if they were not the same to begin with.

You could check simply:
"definition of carbohydrate" and "definition of lignin".
Even without any chemistry training you will see obvious differences.
For example, for lignin you will see terms like "aromatic" and "phenyl" which are never used in the carbohydrate definitions.

You could check simply:
"chemical formula for carbohydrate" and "chemical formula for lignin"
Even with no training, you can see they are quite different.
All the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 3:1
Nearly all the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-carbon ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 1:1

You could look up:
"chemical structure for carbohydrate" and "chemical structure for lignin"
Even with no training, they do not look very similar.
The lignin is full of hexagons with circles inside them. No carbohydrates do.
The hexagons are the "aromatic" (benzene ring) par of lignin.
Carbohydrates may have hexagons, but no circles inside. Not aromatic. Ever.

The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Or by anyone who actually studied chemistry in the real world.

Many carbohydrates do. Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Lignin is a polymer that is closely related to cellulose and is most certainly not a carbohydrate

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

How can someone with no formal training in chemistry find out if this assertion is absurd?

The quickest way would be to use an Internet search engine with the question:

"Is lignin a carbohydrate"

The answer is unambiguous and unanimous.

If you want to go deeper might ask:

"What is the difference between lignin and carbohydrate?"

But you will find it swamped with references to "lignin-carbohydrate complexes", rather than something that just distinguishes the two definitions.

Still, this is very revealing. A lignin-carbohydrate complex forms from two different materials combining. As if they were not the same to begin with.

You could check simply:
"definition of carbohydrate" and "definition of lignin".
Even without any chemistry training you will see obvious differences.
For example, for lignin you will see terms like "aromatic" and "phenyl" which are never used in the carbohydrate definitions.

You could check simply:
"chemical formula for carbohydrate" and "chemical formula for lignin"
Even with no training, you can see they are quite different.
All the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 3:1
Nearly all the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-carbon ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 1:1

You could look up:
"chemical structure for carbohydrate" and "chemical structure for lignin"
Even with no training, they do not look very similar.
The lignin is full of hexagons with circles inside them. No carbohydrates do.
The hexagons are the "aromatic" (benzene ring) par of lignin.
Carbohydrates may have hexagons, but no circles inside. Not aromatic. Ever.

The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Or by anyone who actually studied chemistry in the real world.

Many carbohydrates do. Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Lignin is a polymer that is closely related to cellulose and is most certainly not a carbohydrate

Lignin is not cellulose. Both are carbohydrates.

Swan wrote:Lignin is not digestible and is classified as a fiber,

IBdaMann wrote:

Swan wrote:Lignin is not digestible and is classified as a fiber,

... and fiber is carbohydrate found mainly in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and legumes.

Is it not?

Fiber is a carbohydrate that the human body cannot digest.

It simply depends on who owns the English language, right?

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

How can someone with no formal training in chemistry find out if this assertion is absurd?

The quickest way would be to use an Internet search engine with the question:

"Is lignin a carbohydrate"

The answer is unambiguous and unanimous.

If you want to go deeper might ask:

"What is the difference between lignin and carbohydrate?"

But you will find it swamped with references to "lignin-carbohydrate complexes", rather than something that just distinguishes the two definitions.

Still, this is very revealing. A lignin-carbohydrate complex forms from two different materials combining. As if they were not the same to begin with.

You could check simply:
"definition of carbohydrate" and "definition of lignin".
Even without any chemistry training you will see obvious differences.
For example, for lignin you will see terms like "aromatic" and "phenyl" which are never used in the carbohydrate definitions.

You could check simply:
"chemical formula for carbohydrate" and "chemical formula for lignin"
Even with no training, you can see they are quite different.
All the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 3:1
Nearly all the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-carbon ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 1:1

You could look up:
"chemical structure for carbohydrate" and "chemical structure for lignin"
Even with no training, they do not look very similar.
The lignin is full of hexagons with circles inside them. No carbohydrates do.
The hexagons are the "aromatic" (benzene ring) par of lignin.
Carbohydrates may have hexagons, but no circles inside. Not aromatic. Ever.

The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Or by anyone who actually studied chemistry in the real world.

Many carbohydrates do. Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Lignin is a polymer that is closely related to cellulose and is most certainly not a carbohydrate

Lignin is not cellulose. Both are carbohydrates.

Lignin is not digestible and is classified as a fiber,

Swan wrote:
carbohydrates are digestible

Swan wrote:
and are sugars.

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a sugar,

Swan wrote:
but is rather a compound containing about 40 oxygenated phenylpropane units, as well as coniferyl, sinapyl, and p-coumaryl alcohols that have undergone a dehydrogenative polymerization process. Lignins vary in mass and methoxyl content.

Swan wrote:
You may now resume trolling

IBdaMann wrote:

Swan wrote:Lignin is not digestible and is classified as a fiber,

... and fiber is carbohydrate found mainly in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and legumes.

Is it not?

Fiber is a carbohydrate that the human body cannot digest.

It simply depends on who owns the English language, right?

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Swan wrote:Lignin is not digestible and is classified as a fiber,

... and fiber is carbohydrate found mainly in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and legumes.

Is it not?

Fiber is a carbohydrate that the human body cannot digest.

It simply depends on who owns the English language, right?

But, lignin is not a carbohydrate

Swan wrote:
but due to its association with dietary fiber component,

Swan wrote:
it affects the physiological effects of dietary fiber and hence classified as dietary fiber.

Swan wrote:
So lignin is neither a carb nor a fiber, it is a polymer.

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

How can someone with no formal training in chemistry find out if this assertion is absurd?

The quickest way would be to use an Internet search engine with the question:

"Is lignin a carbohydrate"

The answer is unambiguous and unanimous.

If you want to go deeper might ask:

"What is the difference between lignin and carbohydrate?"

But you will find it swamped with references to "lignin-carbohydrate complexes", rather than something that just distinguishes the two definitions.

Still, this is very revealing. A lignin-carbohydrate complex forms from two different materials combining. As if they were not the same to begin with.

You could check simply:
"definition of carbohydrate" and "definition of lignin".
Even without any chemistry training you will see obvious differences.
For example, for lignin you will see terms like "aromatic" and "phenyl" which are never used in the carbohydrate definitions.

You could check simply:
"chemical formula for carbohydrate" and "chemical formula for lignin"
Even with no training, you can see they are quite different.
All the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 3:1
Nearly all the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-carbon ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 1:1

You could look up:
"chemical structure for carbohydrate" and "chemical structure for lignin"
Even with no training, they do not look very similar.
The lignin is full of hexagons with circles inside them. No carbohydrates do.
The hexagons are the "aromatic" (benzene ring) par of lignin.
Carbohydrates may have hexagons, but no circles inside. Not aromatic. Ever.

The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Or by anyone who actually studied chemistry in the real world.

Many carbohydrates do. Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Lignin is a polymer that is closely related to cellulose and is most certainly not a carbohydrate

Lignin is not cellulose. Both are carbohydrates.

Lignin is not digestible and is classified as a fiber,

Lignin has no fibers.

Swan wrote:
carbohydrates are digestible

Some are, some aren't.

Swan wrote:
and are sugars.

Carbohydrates are not sugar, but sugar is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a sugar,

Correct.

Swan wrote:
but is rather a compound containing about 40 oxygenated phenylpropane units, as well as coniferyl, sinapyl, and p-coumaryl alcohols that have undergone a dehydrogenative polymerization process. Lignins vary in mass and methoxyl content.

Buzzword fallacies.

Swan wrote:
You may now resume trolling

Inversion fallacy.

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

How can someone with no formal training in chemistry find out if this assertion is absurd?

The quickest way would be to use an Internet search engine with the question:

"Is lignin a carbohydrate"

The answer is unambiguous and unanimous.

If you want to go deeper might ask:

"What is the difference between lignin and carbohydrate?"

But you will find it swamped with references to "lignin-carbohydrate complexes", rather than something that just distinguishes the two definitions.

Still, this is very revealing. A lignin-carbohydrate complex forms from two different materials combining. As if they were not the same to begin with.

You could check simply:
"definition of carbohydrate" and "definition of lignin".
Even without any chemistry training you will see obvious differences.
For example, for lignin you will see terms like "aromatic" and "phenyl" which are never used in the carbohydrate definitions.

You could check simply:
"chemical formula for carbohydrate" and "chemical formula for lignin"
Even with no training, you can see they are quite different.
All the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 3:1
Nearly all the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-carbon ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 1:1

You could look up:
"chemical structure for carbohydrate" and "chemical structure for lignin"
Even with no training, they do not look very similar.
The lignin is full of hexagons with circles inside them. No carbohydrates do.
The hexagons are the "aromatic" (benzene ring) par of lignin.
Carbohydrates may have hexagons, but no circles inside. Not aromatic. Ever.

The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Or by anyone who actually studied chemistry in the real world.

Many carbohydrates do. Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Lignin is a polymer that is closely related to cellulose and is most certainly not a carbohydrate

Lignin is not cellulose. Both are carbohydrates.

Lignin is not digestible and is classified as a fiber,

Lignin has no fibers.

Swan wrote:
carbohydrates are digestible

Some are, some aren't.

Swan wrote:
and are sugars.

Carbohydrates are not sugar, but sugar is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a sugar,

Correct.

Swan wrote:
but is rather a compound containing about 40 oxygenated phenylpropane units, as well as coniferyl, sinapyl, and p-coumaryl alcohols that have undergone a dehydrogenative polymerization process. Lignins vary in mass and methoxyl content.

Buzzword fallacies.

Swan wrote:
You may now resume trolling

Inversion fallacy.

But, lignin is not a carbohydrate but due to its association with dietary fiber component, it affects the physiological effects of dietary fiber and hence classified as dietary fiber. So lignin is neither a carb nor a fiber, it is a polymer.

You may now resume drinking like your other selfs

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

How can someone with no formal training in chemistry find out if this assertion is absurd?

The quickest way would be to use an Internet search engine with the question:

"Is lignin a carbohydrate"

The answer is unambiguous and unanimous.

If you want to go deeper might ask:

"What is the difference between lignin and carbohydrate?"

But you will find it swamped with references to "lignin-carbohydrate complexes", rather than something that just distinguishes the two definitions.

Still, this is very revealing. A lignin-carbohydrate complex forms from two different materials combining. As if they were not the same to begin with.

You could check simply:
"definition of carbohydrate" and "definition of lignin".
Even without any chemistry training you will see obvious differences.
For example, for lignin you will see terms like "aromatic" and "phenyl" which are never used in the carbohydrate definitions.

You could check simply:
"chemical formula for carbohydrate" and "chemical formula for lignin"
Even with no training, you can see they are quite different.
All the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 3:1
Nearly all the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-carbon ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 1:1

You could look up:
"chemical structure for carbohydrate" and "chemical structure for lignin"
Even with no training, they do not look very similar.
The lignin is full of hexagons with circles inside them. No carbohydrates do.
The hexagons are the "aromatic" (benzene ring) par of lignin.
Carbohydrates may have hexagons, but no circles inside. Not aromatic. Ever.

The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Or by anyone who actually studied chemistry in the real world.

Many carbohydrates do. Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Lignin is a polymer that is closely related to cellulose and is most certainly not a carbohydrate

Lignin is not cellulose. Both are carbohydrates.

Lignin is not digestible and is classified as a fiber,

Lignin has no fibers.

Swan wrote:
carbohydrates are digestible

Some are, some aren't.

Swan wrote:
and are sugars.

Carbohydrates are not sugar, but sugar is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a sugar,

Correct.

Swan wrote:
but is rather a compound containing about 40 oxygenated phenylpropane units, as well as coniferyl, sinapyl, and p-coumaryl alcohols that have undergone a dehydrogenative polymerization process. Lignins vary in mass and methoxyl content.

Buzzword fallacies.

Swan wrote:
You may now resume trolling

Inversion fallacy.

But, lignin is not a carbohydrate but due to its association with dietary fiber component, it affects the physiological effects of dietary fiber and hence classified as dietary fiber. So lignin is neither a carb nor a fiber, it is a polymer.

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Lignin is a carbohydrate.
It is a carbohydrate, just like plant based alcohols are.

How can someone with no formal training in chemistry find out if this assertion is absurd?

The quickest way would be to use an Internet search engine with the question:

"Is lignin a carbohydrate"

The answer is unambiguous and unanimous.

If you want to go deeper might ask:

"What is the difference between lignin and carbohydrate?"

But you will find it swamped with references to "lignin-carbohydrate complexes", rather than something that just distinguishes the two definitions.

Still, this is very revealing. A lignin-carbohydrate complex forms from two different materials combining. As if they were not the same to begin with.

You could check simply:
"definition of carbohydrate" and "definition of lignin".
Even without any chemistry training you will see obvious differences.
For example, for lignin you will see terms like "aromatic" and "phenyl" which are never used in the carbohydrate definitions.

You could check simply:
"chemical formula for carbohydrate" and "chemical formula for lignin"
Even with no training, you can see they are quite different.
All the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-oxygen ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 3:1
Nearly all the carbohydrates have hydrogen-to-carbon ratio of 2:1
In most lignins, it is closer to 1:1

You could look up:
"chemical structure for carbohydrate" and "chemical structure for lignin"
Even with no training, they do not look very similar.
The lignin is full of hexagons with circles inside them. No carbohydrates do.
The hexagons are the "aromatic" (benzene ring) par of lignin.
Carbohydrates may have hexagons, but no circles inside. Not aromatic. Ever.

The absurd assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate can be falsified by just about anyone who knows how to use Internet search engines.

Or by anyone who actually studied chemistry in the real world.

Many carbohydrates do. Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Lignin is a polymer that is closely related to cellulose and is most certainly not a carbohydrate

Lignin is not cellulose. Both are carbohydrates.

Lignin is not digestible and is classified as a fiber,

Lignin has no fibers.

Swan wrote:
carbohydrates are digestible

Some are, some aren't.

Swan wrote:
and are sugars.

Carbohydrates are not sugar, but sugar is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a sugar,

Correct.

Swan wrote:
but is rather a compound containing about 40 oxygenated phenylpropane units, as well as coniferyl, sinapyl, and p-coumaryl alcohols that have undergone a dehydrogenative polymerization process. Lignins vary in mass and methoxyl content.

Buzzword fallacies.

Swan wrote:
You may now resume trolling

Inversion fallacy.

But, lignin is not a carbohydrate but due to its association with dietary fiber component, it affects the physiological effects of dietary fiber and hence classified as dietary fiber. So lignin is neither a carb nor a fiber, it is a polymer.

Lignin is a carbohydrate. It is not fibrous. You are now locked in paradox. You can't call something a fiber and not a fiber at the same time.

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate and it is a fiber that is not sugar, but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule. As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration, leading to a tough, stringy texture.

PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

Im a BM wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate and it is a fiber that is not sugar, but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule. As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration, leading to a tough, stringy texture.

PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

This definition of lignin is partially correct.

However, if lignin were a saccharide, that would make it a carbohydrate.

Phenolic resin alcohols isn't too far off.

Lignins are polymers of aromatic alcohols (phenols) with aliphatic interlinks.

Carbohydrates are purely aliphatic. Also, carbs have strictly single bonded links between all atoms. Lignin and polyphenols have mainly double bonded carbons.

Next we'll get into how much lignin is like polyphenol.

That is what makes lignin significant for carbon sequestration and nitrogen cycling, with important implications for climate change.

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate

Swan wrote:
and it is a fiber

Swan wrote:
that is not sugar,

Swan wrote:
but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule.

Swan wrote:
As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration,

Swan wrote:
leading to a tough, stringy texture.

Swan wrote:
PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

Swan wrote:
PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

Im a BM wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate and it is a fiber that is not sugar, but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule. As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration, leading to a tough, stringy texture.

PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

This definition of lignin is partially correct.

Im a BM wrote:
However, if lignin were a saccharide, that would make it a carbohydrate.

Phenolic resin alcohols isn't too far off.

Lignins are polymers of aromatic alcohols (phenols) with aliphatic interlinks.

Carbohydrates are purely aliphatic.

Im a BM wrote:
Also, carbs have strictly single bonded links between all atoms. Lignin and polyphenols have mainly double bonded carbons.

Im a BM wrote:
Next we'll get into how much lignin is like polyphenol.

That is what makes lignin significant for carbon sequestration and nitrogen cycling, with important implications for climate change.

Swan wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate and it is a fiber that is not sugar, but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule. As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration, leading to a tough, stringy texture.

PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

This definition of lignin is partially correct.

However, if lignin were a saccharide, that would make it a carbohydrate.

Phenolic resin alcohols isn't too far off.

Lignins are polymers of aromatic alcohols (phenols) with aliphatic interlinks.

Carbohydrates are purely aliphatic. Also, carbs have strictly single bonded links between all atoms. Lignin and polyphenols have mainly double bonded carbons.

Next we'll get into how much lignin is like polyphenol.

That is what makes lignin significant for carbon sequestration and nitrogen cycling, with important implications for climate change.

The biggest failure in American history unlike what you have been told was the Manhattan project

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate

Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
and it is a fiber

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
that is not sugar,

It is not a sugar. Sugar, however, is also a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule.

Define 'advanced molecule'.

Swan wrote:
As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration,

Plant cell walls don't contain lignin.

Swan wrote:
leading to a tough, stringy texture.

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

You lock yourself into your own paradoxes. They are YOUR problem. Only YOU can do something about them.

Swan wrote:
PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

I take better care of my chickens than that.

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate

Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
and it is a fiber

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
that is not sugar,

It is not a sugar. Sugar, however, is also a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule.

Define 'advanced molecule'.

Swan wrote:
As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration,

Plant cell walls don't contain lignin.

Swan wrote:
leading to a tough, stringy texture.

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

You lock yourself into your own paradoxes. They are YOUR problem. Only YOU can do something about them.

Swan wrote:
PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

I take better care of my chickens than that.

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate

Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
and it is a fiber

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
that is not sugar,

It is not a sugar. Sugar, however, is also a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule.

Define 'advanced molecule'.

Swan wrote:
As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration,

Plant cell walls don't contain lignin.

Swan wrote:
leading to a tough, stringy texture.

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

You lock yourself into your own paradoxes. They are YOUR problem. Only YOU can do something about them.

Swan wrote:
PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

I take better care of my chickens than that.

There is no human ...

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate

Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
and it is a fiber

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
that is not sugar,

It is not a sugar. Sugar, however, is also a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule.

Define 'advanced molecule'.

Swan wrote:
As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration,

Plant cell walls don't contain lignin.

Swan wrote:
leading to a tough, stringy texture.

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

You lock yourself into your own paradoxes. They are YOUR problem. Only YOU can do something about them.

Swan wrote:
PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

I take better care of my chickens than that.

As the stupid word games make clear, trolls have never studied chemistry in the real world.

Im a BM wrote:
Look up the definition for carbohydrate, and you will find the term "saccharide".

Im a BM wrote:
Parrot Boy wouldn't know that. He could have won the debate by quoting Snarky's incorrect claim that lignin is a saccharide.

Im a BM wrote:
But all he knows is how to play word games and make contrarian assertions.

Im a BM wrote:
Deny that lignin is found in cell walls,

Im a BM wrote:
and try to make it about "fibrous" somehow.

Im a BM wrote:
Kind of like "amphibious" versus the actual definition of amphibian.

Im a BM wrote:
And this thread is completely covered in troll feces now.
Would have been nice to try to discuss the topic.

Im a BM wrote:
Lignin comes in second after polyphenol as the chemical that most regulates carbon sequestration and nitrogen cycling.

Im a BM wrote:
By some definitions, lignin IS a polyphenol. Most of its molecular weight arises from its phenolic (aromatic alcohol) rings.

But polyphenols, also known as tannins or tannic acid, are defined not just by the phenols but also the acid. Polyphenols are carboxylic acids, which lignins are not. Benzoic acid is another word for it when the carboxylic acid group is attached to a benzene ring, as it is in polyphenols. But that benzene ring is also an alcohol (phenol)

Im a BM wrote:
Meanwhile, Parrot Boy STILL makes the absurd anti scientific assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate. Yet doesn't even know what a saccharide is.

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate

Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
and it is a fiber

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
that is not sugar,

It is not a sugar. Sugar, however, is also a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule.

Define 'advanced molecule'.

Swan wrote:
As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration,

Plant cell walls don't contain lignin.

Swan wrote:
leading to a tough, stringy texture.

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

You lock yourself into your own paradoxes. They are YOUR problem. Only YOU can do something about them.

Swan wrote:
PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

I take better care of my chickens than that.

As the stupid word games make clear, trolls have never studied chemistry in the real world.

Look up the definition for carbohydrate, and you will find the term "saccharide".

Parrot Boy wouldn't know that. He could have won the debate by quoting Snarky's incorrect claim that lignin is a saccharide.

But all he knows is how to play word games and make contrarian assertions.

Deny that lignin is found in cell walls, and try to make it about "fibrous" somehow. Kind of like "amphibious" versus the actual definition of amphibian.

And this thread is completely covered in troll feces now.

Would have been nice to try to discuss the topic.

Lignin comes in second after polyphenol as the chemical that most regulates carbon sequestration and nitrogen cycling.

By some definitions, lignin IS a polyphenol. Most of its molecular weight arises from its phenolic (aromatic alcohol) rings.

But polyphenols, also known as tannins or tannic acid, are defined not just by the phenols but also the acid. Polyphenols are carboxylic acids, which lignins are not. Benzoic acid is another word for it when the carboxylic acid group is attached to a benzene ring, as it is in polyphenols. But that benzene ring is also an alcohol (phenol)

Meanwhile, Parrot Boy STILL makes the absurd anti scientific assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate. Yet doesn't even know what a saccharide is.

Swan wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate

Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
and it is a fiber

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
that is not sugar,

It is not a sugar. Sugar, however, is also a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule.

Define 'advanced molecule'.

Swan wrote:
As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration,

Plant cell walls don't contain lignin.

Swan wrote:
leading to a tough, stringy texture.

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

You lock yourself into your own paradoxes. They are YOUR problem. Only YOU can do something about them.

Swan wrote:
PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

I take better care of my chickens than that.

As the stupid word games make clear, trolls have never studied chemistry in the real world.

Look up the definition for carbohydrate, and you will find the term "saccharide".

Parrot Boy wouldn't know that. He could have won the debate by quoting Snarky's incorrect claim that lignin is a saccharide.

But all he knows is how to play word games and make contrarian assertions.

Deny that lignin is found in cell walls, and try to make it about "fibrous" somehow. Kind of like "amphibious" versus the actual definition of amphibian.

And this thread is completely covered in troll feces now.

Would have been nice to try to discuss the topic.

Lignin comes in second after polyphenol as the chemical that most regulates carbon sequestration and nitrogen cycling.

By some definitions, lignin IS a polyphenol. Most of its molecular weight arises from its phenolic (aromatic alcohol) rings.

But polyphenols, also known as tannins or tannic acid, are defined not just by the phenols but also the acid. Polyphenols are carboxylic acids, which lignins are not. Benzoic acid is another word for it when the carboxylic acid group is attached to a benzene ring, as it is in polyphenols. But that benzene ring is also an alcohol (phenol)

Meanwhile, Parrot Boy STILL makes the absurd anti scientific assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate. Yet doesn't even know what a saccharide is.

Cell walls create the structure of the cell. Not sure if you know that cells do not have skeletons but use their walls for structure, hence that is where fiber would be found

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate

Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
and it is a fiber

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
that is not sugar,

It is not a sugar. Sugar, however, is also a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule.

Define 'advanced molecule'.

Swan wrote:
As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration,

Plant cell walls don't contain lignin.

Swan wrote:
leading to a tough, stringy texture.

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

You lock yourself into your own paradoxes. They are YOUR problem. Only YOU can do something about them.

Swan wrote:
PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

I take better care of my chickens than that.

As the stupid word games make clear, trolls have never studied chemistry in the real world.

Look up the definition for carbohydrate, and you will find the term "saccharide".

Parrot Boy wouldn't know that. He could have won the debate by quoting Snarky's incorrect claim that lignin is a saccharide.

But all he knows is how to play word games and make contrarian assertions.

Deny that lignin is found in cell walls, and try to make it about "fibrous" somehow. Kind of like "amphibious" versus the actual definition of amphibian.

And this thread is completely covered in troll feces now.

Would have been nice to try to discuss the topic.

Lignin comes in second after polyphenol as the chemical that most regulates carbon sequestration and nitrogen cycling.

By some definitions, lignin IS a polyphenol. Most of its molecular weight arises from its phenolic (aromatic alcohol) rings.

But polyphenols, also known as tannins or tannic acid, are defined not just by the phenols but also the acid. Polyphenols are carboxylic acids, which lignins are not. Benzoic acid is another word for it when the carboxylic acid group is attached to a benzene ring, as it is in polyphenols. But that benzene ring is also an alcohol (phenol)

Meanwhile, Parrot Boy STILL makes the absurd anti scientific assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate. Yet doesn't even know what a saccharide is.

Cell walls create the structure of the cell. Not sure if you know that cells do not have skeletons but use their walls for structure, hence that is where fiber would be found

Lignin is not in cell walls. Lignin is not fibrous. Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Im a BM wrote:
[quote]Into the Night wrote:
Nope. The entire plant is carbohydrates and some proteins.
[quote]



MYSTERY SOLVED!

Since "the entire plant is carbohydrates and some proteins."

And since lignin is NOT a protein.

Lignin HAS to be a carbohydrate. Like every other non protein compound found in plants. They are ALL carbohydrates, according to the infallible expert in science.

We are so lucky to have a plant chemistry expert such as Parrot Boy to enlighten us.

Im a BM wrote:
[quote]Into the Night wrote:
Nope. The entire plant is carbohydrates and some proteins.
[quote]



MYSTERY SOLVED!

Since "the entire plant is carbohydrates and some proteins."

And since lignin is NOT a protein.

Lignin HAS to be a carbohydrate. Like every other non protein compound found in plants. They are ALL carbohydrates, according to the infallible expert in science.

We are so lucky to have a plant chemistry expert such as Parrot Boy to enlighten us.

HarveyH55 wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
[quote]Into the Night wrote:
Nope. The entire plant is carbohydrates and some proteins.
[quote]



MYSTERY SOLVED!

Since "the entire plant is carbohydrates and some proteins."

And since lignin is NOT a protein.

Lignin HAS to be a carbohydrate. Like every other non protein compound found in plants. They are ALL carbohydrates, according to the infallible expert in science.

We are so lucky to have a plant chemistry expert such as Parrot Boy to enlighten us.

Anything that can survive in water is an 'amphibian'. Any molecule that contains carbon and hydrogen is a carbohydrate... "learn some English"... Semantics is everything silly. Always narrowing your focus to the largest possible group, and you are never wrong.

Any attempt at discussing a specific sub-group, is quickly deflected to the larger group, to avoid possible ignorance.

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Lignin is not a carbohydrate

Lignin is a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
and it is a fiber

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
that is not sugar,

It is not a sugar. Sugar, however, is also a carbohydrate.

Swan wrote:
but rather a saccharide, consisting of long chains of phenolic resin alcohols connected along an oversized advanced molecule.

Define 'advanced molecule'.

Swan wrote:
As plants mature, their cell walls increase in lignin concentration,

Plant cell walls don't contain lignin.

Swan wrote:
leading to a tough, stringy texture.

Lignin is not fibrous.

Swan wrote:
PS. Can you now explain how you believe that you can lock people into paradoxes by means of your obvious trolling?

You lock yourself into your own paradoxes. They are YOUR problem. Only YOU can do something about them.

Swan wrote:
PSS. You may now resume choking your chicken

I take better care of my chickens than that.

As the stupid word games make clear, trolls have never studied chemistry in the real world.

Look up the definition for carbohydrate, and you will find the term "saccharide".

Parrot Boy wouldn't know that. He could have won the debate by quoting Snarky's incorrect claim that lignin is a saccharide.

But all he knows is how to play word games and make contrarian assertions.

Deny that lignin is found in cell walls, and try to make it about "fibrous" somehow. Kind of like "amphibious" versus the actual definition of amphibian.

And this thread is completely covered in troll feces now.

Would have been nice to try to discuss the topic.

Lignin comes in second after polyphenol as the chemical that most regulates carbon sequestration and nitrogen cycling.

By some definitions, lignin IS a polyphenol. Most of its molecular weight arises from its phenolic (aromatic alcohol) rings.

But polyphenols, also known as tannins or tannic acid, are defined not just by the phenols but also the acid. Polyphenols are carboxylic acids, which lignins are not. Benzoic acid is another word for it when the carboxylic acid group is attached to a benzene ring, as it is in polyphenols. But that benzene ring is also an alcohol (phenol)

Meanwhile, Parrot Boy STILL makes the absurd anti scientific assertion that lignin is a carbohydrate. Yet doesn't even know what a saccharide is.

Cell walls create the structure of the cell. Not sure if you know that cells do not have skeletons but use their walls for structure, hence that is where fiber would be found

Lignin is not in cell walls. Lignin is not fibrous. Lignin is a carbohydrate.

You have...

Swan wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Nope. The entire plant is carbohydrates and some proteins.

MYSTERY SOLVED!
...Mantra 40b....

So have...