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Gravity fed electrical generation system



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30-04-2019 15:57
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1783)
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Just had a chance to catch up on some reading here....

Dehammered,
I've been here a while and I can tell you this....ITN knows his shit. If you want to throw insults he'll be happy to toss them right back. He's quite good at it! On the other hand, if you want to discuss anything, and I mean ANYTHING, he will discuss to no end. His knowledge is quite incredible on a multitude of topics, so much so that I've often wondered if he is more than one person.
If you have questions, ask them and he will answer with the heart of a teacher that cares.

*humble bow*
GasGuzzler wrote:
I do have a question for you and ITN.

Up front I will say from your first post that your patent sounded like perpetual motion. I have no doubt it won't work. so...

Forget for a moment that that you are trying to create free energy. You talked about 100 gallons a minute available to a 1000 ft drop. 100 gpm seems pretty minuscule, doesn't seem like enough to generate anything substantial/worthwhile. How much do you think this would generate?

ITN, is there a way to calculate what kind of KW could be generated given ONLY these 2 factors? (100 gpm at 1000 ft of fall)


Assuming that the water is in a position to fall this far, such as sunlight moving water vapor into such position as rain, or another machine consuming energy to move water into that position:

Yes. There is a way to calculate it.

Water weighs approx 8.34lbs per gallon. We are talking 100 gallons dropping 1000 ft in a minute. This is equivalent to dropping a 834lb weight 1000 ft in that minute. Converting this to metric means dropping 378kg 305 meters in 60 seconds. This works out to be about 1920 watts.

To move that much water back into position to generate power again will also require 1920 watts, assuming no losses. The first law of thermodynamics states that dU=Q-W. The work we get out of the falling water (or W) is 1920 watts. The work to put the water back into place with no losses (or Q) is also 1920 watts. This results in a change of energy (or dU) of zero. In other words, there is no extra energy to extract from anywhere. All of the available energy is used to move the water back into position.

All machines have losses, however, in which some of the power is lost as waste heat. This means, in order to compensate for such losses and achieve a dU of zero, then MORE power will be required to raise the water back into position to generate W. In words, the lost heat is also part of W. Q will have to be raised correspondingly to cover such losses to again achieve no overall change in energy, where dU is again zero. That means you have to add additional energy from somewhere.

The only way to get usable energy out a machine is if dU is made positive. Then, and only then, is energy increasing in the machine, and you can safely increase W without causing the machine to stop. The only way to do that is to increase the energy added (or Q). You can get that additional energy from the Sun. That's what a hydroelectric power plant does.


....and the practical application of this magik machine is it would take 2 or 3 of these to power my house. (I use quite a bit with well pump, electric dryers, hot water and stove).
30-04-2019 16:03
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
....and the practical application of this magik machine is it would take 2 or 3 of these to power my house. (I use quite a bit with well pump, electric dryers, hot water and stove).


ONLY if your house is 750 foot tall. IF you happen to have a drop of 750 feet from the top of your house/property to the bottom, then you can use this.
30-04-2019 16:10
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1783)
dehammer wrote:
....and the practical application of this magik machine is it would take 2 or 3 of these to power my house. (I use quite a bit with well pump, electric dryers, hot water and stove).


ONLY if your house is 750 foot tall. IF you happen to have a drop of 750 feet from the top of your house/property to the bottom, then you can use this.


I've got about 80 ft of fall from the top of the driveway to the pond and the bottom. The house is somewhere in between. What could I do with that?
30-04-2019 16:13
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
GasGuzzler wrote:
You guys need to pay attention.

He already explained that the water comes from the ocean. The sun, through evaporation/condensation/rainfall, is the "pump" if you will, that returns the water to a position in the system where is can flow back through the turbine and create electricity. It violates no law of science.
Neither does my system. It uses SPECIFIC gravity differences to move the water to the top.
Ritter_Wasserelektrolyse.jpg
30-04-2019 16:18
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
GasGuzzler wrote:
dehammer wrote:
....and the practical application of this magik machine is it would take 2 or 3 of these to power my house. (I use quite a bit with well pump, electric dryers, hot water and stove).


ONLY if your house is 750 foot tall. IF you happen to have a drop of 750 feet from the top of your house/property to the bottom, then you can use this.


I've got about 80 ft of fall from the top of the driveway to the pond and the bottom. The house is somewhere in between. What could I do with that?
Nothing. The system would lose energy in that short a distance.

The best thing you could do if you wanted to use this for your personal use would to have a hole drilled to 400 feet and build a 350 tower above it. It would be too expensive for most people to do it themselves unless they happened to live on or next to a hill that was 750 foot tall, or next to a lake or ocean that dropped 750 foot (you could build a tower above the lake or ocean for part of that drop).

A friend once asked me if this would work inside a safe. My answer was "only if it is at least 500 foot tall".
Edited on 30-04-2019 16:24
30-04-2019 16:25
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1783)
....and that's why it sat in the patent office for 40 years. It has not been shown to work and even if it did, too expensive/not practical for most people.

But hey, I will not be the one to tell someone they're not capable or they can't do it. Go get some funding and try this thing. If nothing else you'll learn more than you already know.
Edited on 30-04-2019 16:27
30-04-2019 16:42
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
You are missing the point.

Alarmist say we only have until 2030 to reduce our co2 emission. YET they do not care enough about the co2 emissions to build a comparatively cheap device that would cut co2 a large amount for a city.

Take for example, New York City. They have well over 100 buildings over 750 foot. They have a polluted river and they complain about the lack of clean drinking water.

Imagine if they required all of those buildings to add a system like this to their building. Consider that a number of those buildings were built after 1979, so they could have had the design integrated into their building design.

During the day, those buildings would power not only themselves but a good chunk of the city, if not all of it. At night, they would be able to produce hydrogen for cabs, busses and other vehicles. By having a city owned network of pipes bringing the hydrogen from the river, they could have clean drinking water as much as they wanted.

Jun 1, 2014 - In 2010 (the latest year for which data is available) New York City added 54,349,650 metric tons of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere = 148,903 tons a day = 6,204 tons an hour = 1.72 tons a second
www.carbonvisuals.com/projects/new-yorks-carbon-emissions-in-real-time

Imagine if they had cut that much out. Now imagine if they did that with 100 of the biggest cities of the world.

This would pay for itself in a matter of a decade or so. After that it would be money for the cities its in.

YET NO ONE wants to use this. Why are the alarmist not all over it? Why doesn't Al Gore push it?

He has enough money he could likely put up over 100 of these. In a decade he would have a steady money maker.

Yet instead he pushes for a carbon tax with a credit exchange that will make him a billionaire.
Edited on 30-04-2019 16:46
30-04-2019 17:07
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
Here is another example of their hypocrisy.

California has dozens of mountains at least 1000 foot tall within a few miles of the ocean. They are CONSTANTLY complaining about the lack of clean water for their swimming pools. They scream about the rising seas threatening to flood their cities. Its all other people's fault of course, they are all WOKE so it cant be their fault.

Yet not once have they built a device that could give them clean drinking water AND cheap electricity for their cars and such.

Colorado is the perfect place to build a group of devices that could power the entire country for the next century, YET they do not. Instead they complain about other people making so much co2.

Florida is complaining about the land subsidence.. oh, yea, the land isn't subsiding. BUT they could just as easy put a low profile pipe system where the sea falls 1000 feet or more just a few miles over the horizon. While this would not prevent the land from flooding, it would at least justify their complaining.
30-04-2019 17:46
James___
★★★★★
(3161)
GasGuzzler wrote:
....and that's why it sat in the patent office for 40 years. It has not been shown to work and even if it did, too expensive/not practical for most people.

But hey, I will not be the one to tell someone they're not capable or they can't do it. Go get some funding and try this thing. If nothing else you'll learn more than you already know.



There might be a cheap way of generating power using a static/pressure head.
It'd help if you understood why atmospheric air pressure is 14.7 psi. Maybe you guys can figure it out?

FYI, inventions are worth money. With this one, all patent rights would go to charity. If it does work then hydroelectric and nuclear power plants might be able to be dismantled. After all, I am an environmentalist.
The problem as I see it is that we need CO2 from coal fired power plants. I do believe CO2 is supporting stratospheric ozone. And this is something that I need to consider. Would a self renewing source of energy cause CO2 generators to be dismantled instead of those things which are actually harming our planet?
I have seen where people go with their emotions when it comes to science. Yet when it comes to their own family and friends no such emotions exist.
Of course, if you guys figure it out, then it's your invention and not mine. Then you guys can do with it whatever you want.
At the moment I am working on someone else's invention which should help me with some of the science I wish to pursue such as Natural Climate Variation. And if things work out for me then you'll know who I am. I'll be the guy explaining the science behind NCV.
Edited on 30-04-2019 18:31
30-04-2019 18:52
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
dehammer wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
You guys need to pay attention.

He already explained that the water comes from the ocean. The sun, through evaporation/condensation/rainfall, is the "pump" if you will, that returns the water to a position in the system where is can flow back through the turbine and create electricity. It violates no law of science.
Neither does my system. It uses SPECIFIC gravity differences to move the water to the top.
...deleted Wikipedia link...

This random apparatus that you pulled out the thick air of Wikipedia is meaningless. I assume is some sort of electrolysis apparatus. It doesn't show anything about specific gravity.

I assume you mean you moving hydrogen to the top because it floats in open air. Trouble is, the tube you are sending this stuff through is not open to the air. If it was, the hydrogen would simply escape to the atmosphere and be lost. Further, hydrogen trapped in such a tube at atmospheric pressure would cause the whole tube to float, pulling it out of your electrolysis device. Over a 750 foot tube, that will put about 7000lbs of tensile stress on that joint.

The more important problem is that you cannot generate enough hydrogen to power your machine by using the machine itself. You still are ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.

Oh, and oxygen doesn't float nearly as well, and still requires open air to do it (which you do not provide, nor would you want to). At least the tensile stress on the tube joint will be much less.

I don't think you understand why anything floats.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
30-04-2019 18:55
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
dehammer wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
dehammer wrote:
....and the practical application of this magik machine is it would take 2 or 3 of these to power my house. (I use quite a bit with well pump, electric dryers, hot water and stove).


ONLY if your house is 750 foot tall. IF you happen to have a drop of 750 feet from the top of your house/property to the bottom, then you can use this.


I've got about 80 ft of fall from the top of the driveway to the pond and the bottom. The house is somewhere in between. What could I do with that?
Nothing. The system would lose energy in that short a distance.

The best thing you could do if you wanted to use this for your personal use would to have a hole drilled to 400 feet and build a 350 tower above it. It would be too expensive for most people to do it themselves unless they happened to live on or next to a hill that was 750 foot tall, or next to a lake or ocean that dropped 750 foot (you could build a tower above the lake or ocean for part of that drop).

A friend once asked me if this would work inside a safe. My answer was "only if it is at least 500 foot tall".

There is nothing magick about a 750 foot drop. Argument from randU fallacy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
30-04-2019 18:55
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
GasGuzzler wrote:
....and that's why it sat in the patent office for 40 years. It has not been shown to work and even if it did, too expensive/not practical for most people.

But hey, I will not be the one to tell someone they're not capable or they can't do it. Go get some funding and try this thing. If nothing else you'll learn more than you already know.


Bingo.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
30-04-2019 20:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
dehammer wrote:
You are missing the point.

No, YOU are missing his AND my point. You are pushing a perpetual motion machine.
dehammer wrote:
Alarmist say we only have until 2030 to reduce our co2 emission.

Big hairy deal. Alarmist said we only had until 2000 to reduce our CO2 emissions. Pick a year.
dehammer wrote:
YET they do not care enough about the co2 emissions to build a comparatively cheap device that would cut co2 a large amount for a city.

Okay, whiner. If it's so cheap, build one and try to get it to work.
dehammer wrote:
Take for example, New York City. They have well over 100 buildings over 750 foot. They have a polluted river and they complain about the lack of clean drinking water.

Their river has been cleaned up and they are rather proud of their drinking water. It's one of the best tasting drinking water in the country. I guess you've never been to New York.
dehammer wrote:
Imagine if they required all of those buildings to add a system like this to their building.

Imagine the fascism required to do it.
dehammer wrote:
Consider that a number of those buildings were built after 1979,

No, most buildings in New York are older than that. In any case, they do not contain your magick machine. They will all have to be retrofitted.
dehammer wrote:
so they could have had the design integrated into their building design.

But they didn't, so now they will ALL have to be retrofitted. Who's going to pay for that? You don't get to dictate to anyone what they will put into their buildings for energy sources. You are not the king.
dehammer wrote:
During the day, those buildings would power not only themselves but a good chunk of the city,
if not all of it.

Your machine won't even power itself, much less a building.
dehammer wrote:
At night, they would be able to produce hydrogen for cabs, busses and other vehicles.

Wait. You NEED that hydrogen to power your machine. You can't just give it away. What's going to power your machine if you do?
dehammer wrote:
By having a city owned network of pipes bringing the hydrogen from the river,

Hydrogen doesn't come from a river. Water does. You have to use energy to get hydrogen out of it. Where are you going to get it?
dehammer wrote:
they could have clean drinking water as much as they wanted.

They already do. Besides, have you tasted distilled water? Yuk.
dehammer wrote:
Jun 1, 2014 - In 2010 (the latest year for which data is available) New York City added 54,349,650 metric tons of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere = 148,903 tons a day = 6,204 tons an hour = 1.72 tons a second
www.carbonvisuals.com/projects/new-yorks-carbon-emissions-in-real-time

Random numbers from a biased web site. Argument from randU fallacy.
dehammer wrote:
Imagine if they had cut that much out.

Nothin'. You think this little bit is significant to the size of the atmosphere in the world? You seem to have no sense of proportion.
dehammer wrote:
Now imagine if they did that with 100 of the biggest cities of the world.

Nothin'.
dehammer wrote:
This would pay for itself in a matter of a decade or so.

How? Your machine does not produce usable energy. It does not produce excess hydrogen. You are creating energy out of nothing in violation of the 1st law of thermodynamics and your are creating matter out of nothing.
dehammer wrote:
After that it would be money for the cities its in.

How?
dehammer wrote:
YET NO ONE wants to use this.

WRONG. You do.
dehammer wrote:
Why are the alarmist not all over it?

One is. You.
dehammer wrote:
Why doesn't Al Gore push it?

He doesn't want to lose money on a wasted project. Al Gore is only about himself, remember.
dehammer wrote:
He has enough money he could likely put up over 100 of these. In a decade he would have a steady money maker.

No, he will lose money on it.
dehammer wrote:
Yet instead he pushes for a carbon tax with a credit exchange that will make him a billionaire.

If fools are willing to give Al Gore their money on such a scheme, then he will happily take advantage of them.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
30-04-2019 20:32
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
dehammer wrote:
Here is another example of their hypocrisy.

California has dozens of mountains at least 1000 foot tall within a few miles of the ocean. They are CONSTANTLY complaining about the lack of clean water for their swimming pools.

No, they are not. They keep filling their swimming pools. They use chlorine and hydrovacuum systems to keep them clean, too.
dehammer wrote:
They scream about the rising seas threatening to flood their cities.

Wait...what? They are lacking water, but they are flooding???

dehammer wrote:
Its all other people's fault of course, they are all WOKE so it cant be their fault.

You aren't even making sense.
dehammer wrote:
Yet not once have they built a device that could give them clean drinking water AND cheap electricity for their cars and such.

Your machine will provide neither.
dehammer wrote:
Colorado is the perfect place to build a group of devices that could power the entire country for the next century,

Your machine cannot even power itself.
dehammer wrote:
YET they do not.

Guess why.
dehammer wrote:
Instead they complain about other people making so much co2.

Some do, some don't. They don't understand that CO2 is necessary for life on this planet, and that CO2 has NO capability to warm the Earth.
dehammer wrote:
Florida is complaining about the land subsidence..

No, they aren't. They aren't complaining about much of anything, other than the usual government corruption and traffic, like most people do. The occasional sinkhole causes problems here and there, they just deal with it.
dehammer wrote:
oh, yea, the land isn't subsiding.

Correct. Florida is actually rising very slowly. It used to be entirely underwater. Now it's underwater only part of the time.
dehammer wrote:
BUT they could just as easy put a low profile pipe system where the sea falls 1000 feet or more just a few miles over the horizon.

I already showed you how much tensile strength your plumbing would have to withstand. If you stick that underwater your plumbing joints will have to withstand 120 tons of tensile strength.
dehammer wrote:
While this would not prevent the land from flooding,

No, hurricanes would still happen. It would be a spectacular failure for your plumbing lines though. You should sell tickets for that one!
dehammer wrote:
it would at least justify their complaining.

They aren't complaining. More and more people are moving to Florida because they like it there. Others wander in and can't seem to find they way out again. See floridaman.com.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
30-04-2019 20:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
....and that's why it sat in the patent office for 40 years. It has not been shown to work and even if it did, too expensive/not practical for most people.

But hey, I will not be the one to tell someone they're not capable or they can't do it. Go get some funding and try this thing. If nothing else you'll learn more than you already know.



There might be a cheap way of generating power using a static/pressure head.
It'd help if you understood why atmospheric air pressure is 14.7 psi. Maybe you guys can figure it out?
That is not a 'head'. It is the same pressure everywhere (generally speaking). A 'head' of pressure is a pressure difference, dude, not an absolute pressure.
James___ wrote:
FYI, inventions are worth money. With this one, all patent rights would go to charity.

What one? There is no machine or process to use absolute atmospheric pressure as a source of power. There is no source of power there.
James___ wrote:
If it does work then hydroelectric and nuclear power plants might be able to be dismantled.
After all, I am an environmentalist.

What, you don't clean solar power? Why kind of environmentalist is that? You don't like producing power using literally a few pounds of fuel for months of power? What kind of environmentalist is that?
James___ wrote:
The problem as I see it is that we need CO2 from coal fired power plants. I do believe CO2 is supporting stratospheric ozone. And this is something that I need to consider.
CO2 has nothing to do with ozone.
James___ wrote:
Would a self renewing source of energy
Not possible. You are suggesting a perpetual motion machine.
James___ wrote:
cause CO2 generators to be dismantled instead of those things which are actually harming our planet?
CO2 does not harm the planet.
James___ wrote:
I have seen where people go with their emotions when it comes to science.
So have I. You are there right now.
James___ wrote:
Yet when it comes to their own family and friends no such emotions exist.
I'll bet your family and friends really appreciate your attitude towards them.

James___ wrote:
Of course, if you guys figure it out, then it's your invention and not mine. Then you guys can do with it whatever you want.
Void argument. What invention?
James___ wrote:
At the moment I am working on someone else's invention which should help me with some of the science I wish to pursue such as Natural Climate Variation.
No such thing. You are studying a void.
James___ wrote:
And if things work out for me then you'll know who I am. I'll be the guy explaining the science behind NCV.

There is no science behind NCV. NCV is a buzzword like 'climate change'. It doesn't mean anything.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
30-04-2019 21:53
James___
★★★★★
(3161)
http://plainshumanities.unl.edu/encyclopedia/doc/egp.war.013
30-04-2019 23:33
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
There is nothing magick about a 750 foot drop. Argument from randU fallacy.
Says the person with zero understanding of science. You use a single name as a shield to prevent learning real science.

But you are right. It isn't magical. Its science.
Edited on 30-04-2019 23:46
30-04-2019 23:44
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
James___ wrote:
It'd help if you understood why atmospheric air pressure is 14.7 psi.


Its actually quite simple for anyone that understands science. At sea level, every square inch has a column of air above that weighs 14.7 pounds.
problem as I see it is that we need CO2 from coal fired power plants.
Plants need co2. At somewhere around 150 ppm, all plants would die of co2 starvation. If man had not been pumping co2 into the air, all life might have died in about 180k-240k years at the rate it was going before us.

Would a self renewing source of energy cause CO2 generators to be dismantled instead of those things which are actually harming our planet?
I personally would dismantle the nuclear power plants first, but the alarmist would certainly demand coal plants go.

At the moment I am working on someone else's invention which should help me with some of the science I wish to pursue such as Natural Climate Variation. And if things work out for me then you'll know who I am. I'll be the guy explaining the science behind NCV.


Good luck with that.
01-05-2019 00:06
James___
★★★★★
(3161)
dehammer wrote:
James___ wrote:
It'd help if you understood why atmospheric air pressure is 14.7 psi.


Its actually quite simple for anyone that understands science. At sea level, every square inch has a column of air above that weighs 14.7 pounds.
problem as I see it is that we need CO2 from coal fired power plants.
Plants need co2. At somewhere around 150 ppm, all plants would die of co2 starvation. If man had not been pumping co2 into the air, all life might have died in about 180k-240k years at the rate it was going before us.

Would a self renewing source of energy cause CO2 generators to be dismantled instead of those things which are actually harming our planet?
I personally would dismantle the nuclear power plants first, but the alarmist would certainly demand coal plants go.

At the moment I am working on someone else's invention which should help me with some of the science I wish to pursue such as Natural Climate Variation. And if things work out for me then you'll know who I am. I'll be the guy explaining the science behind NCV.


Good luck with that.



Question; is working the saxophone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A0wGO3c2T8 the same as working from Saxony? Could another man's invention be a phone? If so is a Saxon invention a "saxophone"? Note the quotation marks.
With atmospheric air pressure, a column of water that is 9.8 metres weighs 1.03 kg's. In American terms that is 14.7 pounds. That's American pounds. They're not the same as a British pound.
To translate, water in English terms is 0.6 ounces per cubic inch equals 14.7 pounds at a column of 392 inches squared. This might be at what Americans call 39º F. At 0º the elevation of the column drops.
It's sad when you Americans don't understand what your science is based on.
01-05-2019 00:19
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
Sorry but I can not see any connection with what you wrote to what you quoted.

You asked why the pressure of air at sea level was 14.7 psi. The reason for that pressure is the weight of the air above the square inch (psi means pounds per square inch). So the 100+ miles column air above that inch weighs 14.7 pounds.
01-05-2019 00:28
James___
★★★★★
(3161)
dehammer wrote:
Sorry but I can not see any connection with what you wrote to what you quoted.

You asked why the pressure of air at sea level was 14.7 psi. The reason for that pressure is the weight of the air above the square inch (psi means pounds per square inch). So the 100+ miles column air above that inch weighs 14.7 pounds.


This is sad.

Americans can't do the simple math. Had to delete the rest of my post. I don't want to offend American women. dehammer, water is about 1,000 times denser than air. This means that a column of air weighing 14.7 lbs. should be 1,000 times the height of a column of water. Don't you Americans even understand basic maths and science? This means that a column of air would be 33,200 feet in elevation. What is that in your miles?
Edited on 01-05-2019 00:34
01-05-2019 01:24
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
air pressure
Have they stopped teaching basic science in England?
Edited on 01-05-2019 01:25
01-05-2019 01:55
James___
★★★★★
(3161)
dehammer wrote:
air pressure
Have they stopped teaching basic science in England?


Your link fails to give the mass of air in a volume.
consider a column of air 1 inch^2 in size extending from sea level to the top of the atmosphere.

the weight (=mass X gravity) of the column of air will be about 14.7 lbs.

Hence, the pressure at sea level is = force/area = 14.7 lbs/inch2

How tall is the column and what is the mass? I understand how an American could miss such miniscule details. I mean you guys like inches and what's that when compared to millimetres ?
Edited on 01-05-2019 01:56
01-05-2019 02:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
dehammer wrote:
There is nothing magick about a 750 foot drop. Argument from randU fallacy.
Says the person with zero understanding of science. You use a single name as a shield to prevent learning real science.

But you are right. It isn't magical. Its science.


Nope. No science here. You aren't using a single theory of science with your statement.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-05-2019 02:58
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
dehammer wrote:
James___ wrote:
It'd help if you understood why atmospheric air pressure is 14.7 psi.


Its actually quite simple for anyone that understands science. At sea level, every square inch has a column of air above that weighs 14.7 pounds.
That is not science. That is an observation.
dehammer wrote:
problem as I see it is that we need CO2 from coal fired power plants.
Plants need co2. At somewhere around 150 ppm, all plants would die of co2 starvation. If man had not been pumping co2 into the air, all life might have died in about 180k-240k years at the rate it was going before us.
Plants have been around and healthy long before we developed anything like technology or the population we have today. How do you think those plants survived the wilderness without us?
dehammer wrote:
Would a self renewing source of energy cause CO2 generators to be dismantled instead of those things which are actually harming our planet?
I personally would dismantle the nuclear power plants first, but the alarmist would certainly demand coal plants go.
Personal opinion. I see no need to dismantle either. Neither of you get to dictate the energy markets. Neither of you are king.
dehammer wrote:
At the moment I am working on someone else's invention which should help me with some of the science I wish to pursue such as Natural Climate Variation. And if things work out for me then you'll know who I am. I'll be the guy explaining the science behind NCV.


Good luck with that.

Good luck with what? His buzzword?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-05-2019 02:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
James___ wrote:
It'd help if you understood why atmospheric air pressure is 14.7 psi.


Its actually quite simple for anyone that understands science. At sea level, every square inch has a column of air above that weighs 14.7 pounds.
problem as I see it is that we need CO2 from coal fired power plants.
Plants need co2. At somewhere around 150 ppm, all plants would die of co2 starvation. If man had not been pumping co2 into the air, all life might have died in about 180k-240k years at the rate it was going before us.

Would a self renewing source of energy cause CO2 generators to be dismantled instead of those things which are actually harming our planet?
I personally would dismantle the nuclear power plants first, but the alarmist would certainly demand coal plants go.

At the moment I am working on someone else's invention which should help me with some of the science I wish to pursue such as Natural Climate Variation. And if things work out for me then you'll know who I am. I'll be the guy explaining the science behind NCV.


Good luck with that.



Question; is working the saxophone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A0wGO3c2T8 the same as working from Saxony? Could another man's invention be a phone? If so is a Saxon invention a "saxophone"? Note the quotation marks.
With atmospheric air pressure, a column of water that is 9.8 metres weighs 1.03 kg's. In American terms that is 14.7 pounds. That's American pounds. They're not the same as a British pound.
To translate, water in English terms is 0.6 ounces per cubic inch equals 14.7 pounds at a column of 392 inches squared. This might be at what Americans call 39º F. At 0º the elevation of the column drops.
It's sad when you Americans don't understand what your science is based on.

I'm impressed. I've never seen any use so many unrelated units in a single sentence before.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-05-2019 03:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
dehammer wrote:
Sorry but I can not see any connection with what you wrote to what you quoted.

You asked why the pressure of air at sea level was 14.7 psi. The reason for that pressure is the weight of the air above the square inch (psi means pounds per square inch). So the 100+ miles column air above that inch weighs 14.7 pounds.


This is assuming standard air pressure and temperature.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-05-2019 03:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Sorry but I can not see any connection with what you wrote to what you quoted.

You asked why the pressure of air at sea level was 14.7 psi. The reason for that pressure is the weight of the air above the square inch (psi means pounds per square inch). So the 100+ miles column air above that inch weighs 14.7 pounds.


This is sad.

Americans can't do the simple math. Had to delete the rest of my post. I don't want to offend American women. dehammer, water is about 1,000 times denser than air. This means that a column of air weighing 14.7 lbs. should be 1,000 times the height of a column of water. Don't you Americans even understand basic maths and science? This means that a column of air would be 33,200 feet in elevation. What is that in your miles?


Do the math, dude. Don't complain about Americans can't do the math when you obviously won't.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-05-2019 03:05
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
dehammer wrote:
air pressure
Have they stopped teaching basic science in England?


No, he just didn't learn any science or mathematics. He never learned logic or philosophy either. He really is quite illiterate.

Just as you are.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-05-2019 03:06
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
James___ wrote:
dehammer wrote:
air pressure
Have they stopped teaching basic science in England?


Your link fails to give the mass of air in a volume.
consider a column of air 1 inch^2 in size extending from sea level to the top of the atmosphere.

the weight (=mass X gravity) of the column of air will be about 14.7 lbs.

Hence, the pressure at sea level is = force/area = 14.7 lbs/inch2

How tall is the column and what is the mass? I understand how an American could miss such miniscule details. I mean you guys like inches and what's that when compared to millimetres ?


Incompatible units. Try again. Air pressure is not measured in millimeters or any other length.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-05-2019 03:49
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2396)
Into the Night wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Here is another example of their hypocrisy.

California has dozens of mountains at least 1000 foot tall within a few miles of the ocean. They are CONSTANTLY complaining about the lack of clean water for their swimming pools.

No, they are not. They keep filling their swimming pools. They use chlorine and hydrovacuum systems to keep them clean, too.
dehammer wrote:
They scream about the rising seas threatening to flood their cities.

Wait...what? They are lacking water, but they are flooding???

dehammer wrote:
Its all other people's fault of course, they are all WOKE so it cant be their fault.

You aren't even making sense.
dehammer wrote:
Yet not once have they built a device that could give them clean drinking water AND cheap electricity for their cars and such.

Your machine will provide neither.
dehammer wrote:
Colorado is the perfect place to build a group of devices that could power the entire country for the next century,

Your machine cannot even power itself.
dehammer wrote:
YET they do not.

Guess why.
dehammer wrote:
Instead they complain about other people making so much co2.

Some do, some don't. They don't understand that CO2 is necessary for life on this planet, and that CO2 has NO capability to warm the Earth.
dehammer wrote:
Florida is complaining about the land subsidence..

No, they aren't. They aren't complaining about much of anything, other than the usual government corruption and traffic, like most people do. The occasional sinkhole causes problems here and there, they just deal with it.
dehammer wrote:
oh, yea, the land isn't subsiding.

Correct. Florida is actually rising very slowly. It used to be entirely underwater. Now it's underwater only part of the time.
dehammer wrote:
BUT they could just as easy put a low profile pipe system where the sea falls 1000 feet or more just a few miles over the horizon.

I already showed you how much tensile strength your plumbing would have to withstand. If you stick that underwater your plumbing joints will have to withstand 120 tons of tensile strength.
dehammer wrote:
While this would not prevent the land from flooding,

No, hurricanes would still happen. It would be a spectacular failure for your plumbing lines though. You should sell tickets for that one!
dehammer wrote:
it would at least justify their complaining.

They aren't complaining. More and more people are moving to Florida because they like it there. Others wander in and can't seem to find they way out again. See floridaman.com.


A lot of Florida in that one...

Think a 1000 foot drop in Florida would be hard to find, maybe far north Florida. Heard rumors of some hills up there, and not just highway overpasses either. There are very few high rise buildings, but I tend to steer clear of the big cities, too confusing for me. Not sure which is more civilized anymore, the big city, or the wild, undeveloped land...

Don't know about NYC water, but can't imagine it being the best tasting water. Best water I ever tasted, was from a mountain stream out in Oregon. Could have been mostly that I was usually pretty thirsty by the time I got there, long walk, but one of the finer points.

Floridaman... Yeah, Florida is magnet of the mentally ill. Use to think that crazy stuff happens all over, and the Floridaman stories just seemed so common, because I live here. When they make national news regularly, it's a little embarrassing. Maybe, it's just that we get so many tourist from all over, and they take our local news with them. Have to admit, a lot of them are just funny as hell though. One of my favorites, was a Florida man stealing beer, when the cops showed up, he of course ran, but fell face first into the parking lot, tripped over his saggy pants that fell down. The caught it all on video too.

I've about given up try to see this invention in my mind, seems that it keeps changing, not well defined. Of course, I have many other things going on in my head, and a short attention span. Probably get more done, if I ever learn to focus.
01-05-2019 03:50
James___
★★★★★
(3161)
Into the Night wrote:
dehammer wrote:
air pressure
Have they stopped teaching basic science in England?


No, he just didn't learn any science or mathematics. He never learned logic or philosophy either. He really is quite illiterate.

Just as you are.


Aw, c'mon dad. Even mum knows that you're a real möther fücker. Why do you think I'm here? Because you're a virgin?
01-05-2019 03:55
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1783)
Best water I ever tasted, was from a mountain stream out in Oregon.
Best water I ever tasted was from a rocky mountain stream. However, it must have been parasite city as I paid dearly for the next 24 hrs!
Probably get more done, if I ever learn to focus.

You too?
01-05-2019 04:32
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
dehammer wrote:
Here is another example of their hypocrisy.

California has dozens of mountains at least 1000 foot tall within a few miles of the ocean. They are CONSTANTLY complaining about the lack of clean water for their swimming pools.

No, they are not. They keep filling their swimming pools. They use chlorine and hydrovacuum systems to keep them clean, too.
dehammer wrote:
They scream about the rising seas threatening to flood their cities.

Wait...what? They are lacking water, but they are flooding???

dehammer wrote:
Its all other people's fault of course, they are all WOKE so it cant be their fault.

You aren't even making sense.
dehammer wrote:
Yet not once have they built a device that could give them clean drinking water AND cheap electricity for their cars and such.

Your machine will provide neither.
dehammer wrote:
Colorado is the perfect place to build a group of devices that could power the entire country for the next century,

Your machine cannot even power itself.
dehammer wrote:
YET they do not.

Guess why.
dehammer wrote:
Instead they complain about other people making so much co2.

Some do, some don't. They don't understand that CO2 is necessary for life on this planet, and that CO2 has NO capability to warm the Earth.
dehammer wrote:
Florida is complaining about the land subsidence..

No, they aren't. They aren't complaining about much of anything, other than the usual government corruption and traffic, like most people do. The occasional sinkhole causes problems here and there, they just deal with it.
dehammer wrote:
oh, yea, the land isn't subsiding.

Correct. Florida is actually rising very slowly. It used to be entirely underwater. Now it's underwater only part of the time.
dehammer wrote:
BUT they could just as easy put a low profile pipe system where the sea falls 1000 feet or more just a few miles over the horizon.

I already showed you how much tensile strength your plumbing would have to withstand. If you stick that underwater your plumbing joints will have to withstand 120 tons of tensile strength.
dehammer wrote:
While this would not prevent the land from flooding,

No, hurricanes would still happen. It would be a spectacular failure for your plumbing lines though. You should sell tickets for that one!
dehammer wrote:
it would at least justify their complaining.

They aren't complaining. More and more people are moving to Florida because they like it there. Others wander in and can't seem to find they way out again. See floridaman.com.


A lot of Florida in that one...

Think a 1000 foot drop in Florida would be hard to find, maybe far north Florida. Heard rumors of some hills up there, and not just highway overpasses either. There are very few high rise buildings, but I tend to steer clear of the big cities, too confusing for me. Not sure which is more civilized anymore, the big city, or the wild, undeveloped land...

They say the highest point in Florida was a basketball player that lived there, but he moved away.

Seriously though, there are hills in Florida, like you say, up in the north. There are also antenna towers 1000 ft high. I fly aircraft. I watch out for these babies!
HarveyH55 wrote:
Don't know about NYC water, but can't imagine it being the best tasting water. Best water I ever tasted, was from a mountain stream out in Oregon. Could have been mostly that I was usually pretty thirsty by the time I got there, long walk, but one of the finer points.

You can easily get the Hiker's Trots that way, fortunately you were lucky. Yes, it was probably because you were just damn thirsty. New Yorkers are quite proud of their water. It doesn't come from the river. I've tasted it. It's actually pretty good...and I live Washington.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Floridaman... Yeah, Florida is magnet of the mentally ill. Use to think that crazy stuff happens all over, and the Floridaman stories just seemed so common, because I live here. When they make national news regularly, it's a little embarrassing. Maybe, it's just that we get so many tourist from all over, and they take our local news with them. Have to admit, a lot of them are just funny as hell though. One of my favorites, was a Florida man stealing beer, when the cops showed up, he of course ran, but fell face first into the parking lot, tripped over his saggy pants that fell down. The caught it all on video too.

Excellent. Crime, oddball behavior, auto accidents, all happen in other States, but Florida has a weirdness factor in these events that other States don't have. We try hard to be weird in Seattle, but we don't hold a candle to Florida. Las Vegas can be delightfully weird in its own right, but that's just a city. Florida practically makes an industry out of it.

You have eco-wackos trying to save one invasive species from another invasive species.
You have The Villages.
You have Walt Disney World.
You have the Keys.
You have one of the creepiest swamps ever: the Everglades.
You have a huge cruise ship industry, with all the weirdness it can muster.
You have Weeki Wachee park.
You have more theme parks than anywhere.
You have lakes that are 9 miles in length, 2 miles across, and only knee deep the whole way.
You have Florida Man.
HarveyH55 wrote:
I've about given up try to see this invention in my mind, seems that it keeps changing, not well defined.

He keeps changing bits to try to compensate for problems we keep pointing out, but the basic machine hasn't changed. Using a fuel cell to consume hydrogen and oxygen to make water, use that to spin a generator, and use the power generated by this machine to make enough hydrogen and oxygen again by electrolysis to fuel the machine. He still doesn't get that it will cost more energy to run the electrolysis to produce the fuel he used to run the electrolysis cell.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Of course, I have many other things going on in my head, and a short attention span. Probably get more done, if I ever learn to focus.

I think you actually focus pretty well. Don't sell yourself short.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-05-2019 04:36
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13273)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Best water I ever tasted, was from a mountain stream out in Oregon.
Best water I ever tasted was from a rocky mountain stream. However, it must have been parasite city as I paid dearly for the next 24 hrs!

Yeah...that happens. You can use iodine, a careful dose of dilute Chlorox, or simply boil the water first, but that does change it's taste.

Nothing like that attractive, cold, splashing stream after a long hike though!
GasGuzzler wrote:
Probably get more done, if I ever learn to focus.

You too?


It IS kinda hard to focus when you are paying the parasites their due.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
01-05-2019 05:08
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1783)
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Best water I ever tasted, was from a mountain stream out in Oregon.
Best water I ever tasted was from a rocky mountain stream. However, it must have been parasite city as I paid dearly for the next 24 hrs!

Yeah...that happens. You can use iodine, a careful dose of dilute Chlorox, or simply boil the water first, but that does change it's taste.

Nothing like that attractive, cold, splashing stream after a long hike though!
GasGuzzler wrote:
Probably get more done, if I ever learn to focus.

You too?


It IS kinda hard to focus when you are paying the parasites their due.


LOL. It was an 8th grade youth group trip to Colorado. I honestly didn't know any better!! Kids bounce back quick though. If I did the same today it'd prolly kill me dead.
01-05-2019 05:35
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
James___ wrote: Your link fails to give the mass of air in a volume.
consider a column of air 1 inch^2 in size extending from sea level to the top of the atmosphere.
The main purpose of that link was the picture. You tried to give the distance as if the pressure was the same all the way to the top of the atmosphere. IF you noticed there are a lot of blue dots at the bottom but as it goes higher and higher, they get fewer. As there is less weight above, the pressure decreases and the air density going down as pressure does. So while you assume that it would only be a few miles because of the height if the pressure was equal, it doesn't work that way.
01-05-2019 06:18
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
HarveyH55 wrote:I've about given up try to see this invention in my mind, seems that it keeps changing, not well defined.


I have changed nothing. The problem is your image of it. I have discussed two versions of it, a small version and a large version. The short version, (750-1250 foot) more likely used for testing or in the ocean where the pressure would get very high very quickly. It could be used in cities with tall buildings.

The large version (10000 foot) would be the main one for producing power for a state or country. As an example, there are many mountains in the Rockies that soar 10000 feet above the valley below. I know there is one mountain at least that soars 8000 feet above Denver. These could produce much of the power the US.

Imagine the force of 500 cubic foot of water per second rushing down a pipe 250 feet long and turning a turbine. How a dam works
Power = (x feet) x (500 cubic feet per second) x (0.80 effiency) / 11.8 = y kilowatts

In this case it would be 250 feet x 500 x.8/11.8=8474.5 kilowatt.

IF you drop it 8000 feet, that means you go though 32 of these, so the total would be 271186.4 Kw.

It takes 157.3 kw to electrolysis 1cf of water, so 500 would take 78658 kw to electrolysis 500 cf. Even if you had no recovery of it such as a fuel cell, motor, or even a boiler/steam turbine set up, you would still gain 192528kw per minute. That would be enough electricity for 562183 homes. Assuming 4 person per home and that 2.25 million people.

Assuming that you got a recovery of 60% from a fuel cell, the person that did the patent might have gotten it wrong. I was basing the 750 feet off his graph. It might have take 928 feet to break even.

Of course, my math might be wrong. He did provide the formula but it was upside so I never copied it.
01-05-2019 06:40
James___
★★★★★
(3161)
dehammer wrote:
James___ wrote: Your link fails to give the mass of air in a volume.
consider a column of air 1 inch^2 in size extending from sea level to the top of the atmosphere.
The main purpose of that link was the picture. You tried to give the distance as if the pressure was the same all the way to the top of the atmosphere. IF you noticed there are a lot of blue dots at the bottom but as it goes higher and higher, they get fewer. As there is less weight above, the pressure decreases and the air density going down as pressure does. So while you assume that it would only be a few miles because of the height if the pressure was equal, it doesn't work that way.



Don't you Americans know what a torr or a pascal is? I've never heard of atmospheric pressure being described in "blue dots". Do you even know the difference in mass in atmospheric gasses when pressures are varied from 1.03 kgf/cm^2 to 0.5015 kgf/cm^2?
This would be like KE = 1/2kT and 1/1kT. 1/1 = 1 atm.
You didn't show where pressure and mass are relative. In stating column height, average pressure and relative mass, no values were shown. You Yanks are nothing more than a bunch of wankers that have your knickers all knotted up in a bunch. Makes me d@mn glad when I can say that I'm proud to say that I'm not a Yank Wanker!!!
That actually rhymes, Yank Wanker. God Bless the Queen !!!
Edited on 01-05-2019 06:44
01-05-2019 06:57
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(431)
Its an image. That it all it is. It is used to aid in visualization nothing more.
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