The USA electricity system - Hourly billing.?

Jakob wrote:
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When you use electricity in the USA do you pay the same price per kWh 24/7 or how do you handle the accounts.?



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Jakob wrote:
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I guess I have to refraze the question a bit.

If the company that sells you the electricity shall be able to change the price from hour to hour they will have to be able to read how much you use in each specific hour.
Can they do that.?

They finally can in Denmark now after we all got new electricity meters.
It is important to promote free market forces and avoid too much planned economy. This is about on demand energy. It is easier to generate more energy from a boiler online or gas turbine than it is using green energy. Kind of why I like perpetual motion machines, they can be green 24/7.



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Jakob wrote:
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James

You quote wrong and you don't answer my question.
It is a bad idea to write in a forum if you are drunk.


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Jakob wrote:
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When you use electricity in the USA do you pay the same price per kWh 24/7 or how do you handle the accounts.?
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Jakob wrote:
­


I guess I have to refraze the question a bit.

If the company that sells you the electricity shall be able to change the price from hour to hour they will have to be able to read how much you use in each specific hour.
Can they do that.?

They finally can in Denmark now after we all got new electricity meters.
It is important to promote free market forces and avoid too much planned economy.



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James_ wrote:

Jakob wrote:
­


I guess I have to refraze the question a bit.

If the company that sells you the electricity shall be able to change the price from hour to hour they will have to be able to read how much you use in each specific hour.
Can they do that.?

They finally can in Denmark now after we all got new electricity meters.
It is important to promote free market forces and avoid too much planned economy. This is about on demand energy. It is easier to generate more energy from a boiler online or gas turbine than it is using green energy. Kind of why I like perpetual motion machines, they can be green 24/7.



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If a perpetual motion machine works, that could be a source of green energy.
With charging by the hour as you said, how is that electricity generated? That's a part of it.
With using fossil fuels, at night they burn energy while generating little electricity.
With solar panels and wind turbines, they support fossil fuels while not replacing fossil fuels.

James_ wrote:
[quote]Jakob wrote:
­James

You quote wrong and you don't answer my question.
It is a bad idea to write in a forum if you are drunk.

I had already answered your question. How many times do you want it answered?
Texas does things its way while other places do things its way. The state I live in uses monthly billing. How another state does it I do not know.
...fictional stories deleted...

Into the Night wrote:

James_ wrote:
[quote]Jakob wrote:
­James

You quote wrong and you don't answer my question.
It is a bad idea to write in a forum if you are drunk.

I had already answered your question. How many times do you want it answered?
Texas does things its way while other places do things its way. The state I live in uses monthly billing. How another state does it I do not know.
...fictional stories deleted...

States do not charge for electricity. Electric companies do.
Most ever electric company I know charges monthly for how many joules you used that month, measured as kWh.

Most ever electric company I know charges monthly for how many joules you used that month, measured as kWh.

Jakob wrote:
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Into the Night

Most ever electric company I know charges monthly for how many joules you used that month, measured as kWh.

Thank you.

In Denmark we had the same primitive communist billing system but with the new electricity meters we now have the option for hourly billing.

I believe I heard about a place in Texas where the consumers are not supposed to use the electric water heater during prime-time.
I wonder how they control that with monthly billing.?

Maybe it is a job for the police sometimes to visit peoples houses to check, and if it is on, the owner has to be handcuffed and go to jail.?

In Denmark the hourly price just increases during that time.


By the way, I'm glad to see that after messing around a lot, you ended up agreeing with me about how the unit of energy can be measured at the elementary school level in physics, and in your own house. If it was accidental and you don't quite understand it yet, perhaps because your knowledge of physics comes from half-forgotten rote learning, I can try to explain it to you more thoroughly if you want me to.

James

Your machine and your aggression towards users who are not present has nothing to do in this subject.



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The internal design of the machine was always closely guarded by its inventor. Plagued by paranoia and a nasty temper, and with no patent laws to protect him, Bessler never arranged payment terms for the wheel. A bitter man, he took his secret to the grave and drifted into obscurity.
https://besslerwheel.com/

And yet you just wanted to know hourly billing and what a joule is. No interest in problem solving or making things better?

Jakob wrote:
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And yet you just wanted to know hourly billing and what a joule is. No interest in problem solving or making things better?

One step at a time.

As soon as we all agree about that the USA billing system for electricity belongs in a communist country or an underdeveloped banana republic, then I expect you by all means want to change it in a hurry.

Am I right.?

Have we reached that point now, or is further explanation needed to understand the context.?




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Jakob wrote:
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And yet you just wanted to know hourly billing and what a joule is. No interest in problem solving or making things better?

One step at a time.

As soon as we all agree about that the USA billing system for electricity belongs in a communist country or an underdeveloped banana republic, then I expect you by all means want to change it in a hurry.

Am I right.?

Have we reached that point now, or is further explanation needed to understand the context.?




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James_ wrote:

Jakob wrote:
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And yet you just wanted to know hourly billing and what a joule is. No interest in problem solving or making things better?

One step at a time.

As soon as we all agree about that the USA billing system for electricity belongs in a communist country or an underdeveloped banana republic, then I expect you by all means want to change it in a hurry.

Am I right.?

Have we reached that point now, or is further explanation needed to understand the context.?




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Why doesn't Denmark just generate more green energy that is affordable? It's as I've said, I should stay out of forums. You want to control me using your opinion about hourly billing while you criticize how energy is billed in the U.S. when the cost for electricity is the same during peak hours as it is for none peak hours.
It seems that you are contradicting yourself to make it seem like you are being reasonable. And yet I don't know who you are. You're a meaningless name in a forum. You could be anyone including Alan Bauldree. Bye

Jakob wrote:
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As soon as we all agree about that the USA billing system for electricity belongs in a communist country or an underdeveloped banana republic, then I expect you by all means want to change it in a hurry.

Am I right.?

Have we reached that point now, or is further explanation needed to understand the context.?

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Jakob wrote:
­

And yet you just wanted to know hourly billing and what a joule is. No interest in problem solving or making things better?

One step at a time.

As soon as we all agree about that the USA billing system for electricity belongs in a communist country or an underdeveloped banana republic, then I expect you by all means want to change it in a hurry.

Am I right.?

Have we reached that point now, or is further explanation needed to understand the context.?

Jakob wrote:

If the US has already done it with the electricity meters, or if we agree that it must be done quickly, then I have reached my goal with this topic.
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GasGuzzler wrote:

Jakob wrote:

If the US has already done it with the electricity meters, or if we agree that it must be done quickly, then I have reached my goal with this topic.
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The US has already done this for decades. You are missing the big picture.

Ask yourself why the price must go up during peak usage hours. It is because supply cannot meet demand.

Now ask yourself why isn't there enough supply. We have everything needed to build the generating stations, except for one tiny little problem. Gullible fear mongering liberal religious freaks from the Church of Global Warming continue to stand in the way. You have to know that elderly people die when they don't have air conditioning. Because of the shortages of electricity, there are brown outs and blackouts every summer. It's particularly bad in California, which has been run by Democrats for Decades.

Now you have to answer one more question. Why do you hate people?

Jakob wrote:
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Into the Night

Most ever electric company I know charges monthly for how many joules you used that month, measured as kWh.

Thank you.

In Denmark we had the same primitive communist billing system but with the new electricity meters we now have the option for hourly billing.

Jakob wrote:
I believe I heard about a place in Texas where the consumers are not supposed to use the electric water heater during prime-time.
I wonder how they control that with monthly billing.?

Maybe it is a job for the police sometimes to visit peoples houses to check, and if it is on, the owner has to be handcuffed and go to jail.?

In Denmark the hourly price just increases during that time.

Jakob wrote:

By the way, I'm glad to see that after messing around a lot, you ended up agreeing with me about how the unit of energy can be measured at the elementary school level in physics, and in your own house. If it was accidental and you don't quite understand it yet, perhaps because your knowledge of physics comes from half-forgotten rote learning, I can try to explain it to you more thoroughly if you want me to.

­

Jakob wrote:
­

And yet you just wanted to know hourly billing and what a joule is. No interest in problem solving or making things better?

One step at a time.

As soon as we all agree about that the USA billing system for electricity belongs in a communist country or an underdeveloped banana republic, then I expect you by all means want to change it in a hurry.

Am I right.?

Have we reached that point now, or is further explanation needed to understand the context.?
­­

Jakob wrote:
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I am not agitating for the US to copy the Danish electricity system in full. Keep me safe please. lol

This chapter is only about intelligent electricity meters that the electricity companies can automatically read on an hourly basis.

This will ensure that the electricity consumers who are reckless and do not want to save electricity during prime time will pay the real higher price for it.
Conversely, consumers who save electricity during prime time will be rewarded with a lower price.
If you do not bill on hourly basis, then the financial incentive to buy the electricity disappears when it is cheap to produce, and the reasonable consumers end up paying for electricity to the unreasonable ones, and in general electricity becomes more expensive for everyone. That is the unfortunate thing about a communist or banana republican power system, and that is what I want agreement to eradicate in the United States.
It's infrastructure that costs investment, like when you build roads and train connections, but it has to be done if you want to develop civilization with a well-functioning market, and it pays off in the long run.

If the US has already done it with the electricity meters, or if we agree that it must be done quickly, then I have reached my goal with this topic.



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Jakob wrote:
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GasGuzzler wrote:

Jakob wrote:

If the US has already done it with the electricity meters, or if we agree that it must be done quickly, then I have reached my goal with this topic.
­

The US has already done this for decades. You are missing the big picture.

Ask yourself why the price must go up during peak usage hours. It is because supply cannot meet demand.

Now ask yourself why isn't there enough supply. We have everything needed to build the generating stations, except for one tiny little problem. Gullible fear mongering liberal religious freaks from the Church of Global Warming continue to stand in the way. You have to know that elderly people die when they don't have air conditioning. Because of the shortages of electricity, there are brown outs and blackouts every summer. It's particularly bad in California, which has been run by Democrats for Decades.

Now you have to answer one more question. Why do you hate people?

I don't.

Jakob wrote:
­Do you think I do because you are an ignorant Banana Republican.?

Jakob wrote:
­It is silly of you to claim the supply cannot meet demand.
If it couldn't your light would go out.

Jakob wrote:
­Funny how easy it is to see with electricity.

Jakob wrote:
­The price often goes up in prime time because the power plant has to put on more coal to meet the demand during that time. But they can't do that very quickly. It takes time to increase performance and turn up for the turbines. And the same when they have to turn them down again. Therefor a lot of electricity can be pure waste because the demand is missing during the night and at other times beside prime time.

Jakob wrote:
­So therefore if you can make people move the consumption to other times there will be less waste and in the big picture electricity will be cheaper.

Into the Night wrote:

Jakob wrote:
­It is silly of you to claim the supply cannot meet demand.
If it couldn't your light would go out.

And it does go out. Rolling blackouts are common in California.

Jakob wrote:
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Into the Night wrote:

Jakob wrote:
­It is silly of you to claim the supply cannot meet demand.
If it couldn't your light would go out.

And it does go out. Rolling blackouts are common in California.

The issue was why the price is higher in prime time.
I hope you understood my explanation.

If you have daily blackouts in prime time so much more do you need intelligent electricity meters.

­Can you agree with that.?

GasGuzzler wrote:

The issue is not the meters.

Jakob wrote:
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GasGuzzler wrote:

The issue is not the meters.

No obviously not for you since you have had intelligent electricity meters for decades like you wrote.

So why don't you just show me the page where I can see the hourly prices you have to pay today.?

The price in Denmark changes. Actually that is the point in hourly billing. Sometimes we can even earn money using electricity, because the price is negative.



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Jakob wrote:
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Into the Night wrote:

Jakob wrote:
­It is silly of you to claim the supply cannot meet demand.
If it couldn't your light would go out.

And it does go out. Rolling blackouts are common in California.

The issue was why the price is higher in prime time.
I hope you understood my explanation.

If you have daily blackouts in prime time so much more do you need intelligent electricity meters.

­Can you agree with that.?


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Jakob wrote:
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GasGuzzler wrote:

The issue is not the meters.

No obviously not for you since you have had intelligent electricity meters for decades like you wrote.

So why don't you just show me the page where I can see the hourly prices you have to pay today.?

The price in Denmark changes. Actually that is the point in hourly billing. Sometimes we can even earn money using electricity, because the price is negative.
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GasGuzzler wrote:
You just don't want to talk about lack of electricity production. I wouldn't either if I were you. This is my REC prices. Dirt cheap compared to communist Denmark.

, the on-peak energy is billed at a rate of $0.16/kilowatt-hour (KWH); the first 750 KWHs of the off-peak energy is billed at $0.08/KWH and any off-peak usage over 750 KWH is billed at $0.0649/kWh

Into the Night wrote:

The cost of generating electricity is never negative.

Jakob wrote:
­There will be days when those prices are not right so it still looks like a half concrete communist billing system to me.

Jakob wrote:
­How do they know how much electricity you use during prime time.?
The electricity meter or the company has to be pretty stupid if they can't provide you with the page I asked for.
Is it just a camera on an old meter.?

Jakob wrote:
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I can see your price in prime time is actually higher than it normally is in Denmark.

Jakob wrote:
­But you can just buy some more power plants for coal if you want it to go up even further the next 30 years,

Jakob wrote:
­and you can send your fellow citizens deeper and deeper into the coal mines to find the last expensive peace of fossil fuel.

Jakob wrote:
­There is no way that I can stand in your way.

Jakob wrote:
­I just feel so sorry for America

Jakob wrote:
­and the next generation if the infrastructure for electricity is going to be maintained or rebuilt by under educated Banana Republicans who think they can make America great again by preventing development into a much better future.

Jakob wrote:
­[quote]Into the Night wrote:

The cost of generating electricity is never negative.

Jakob wrote:
­Nuclear plants and plants for coal are not very flexible,

Jakob wrote:
­so if you buy more of those turbines to satisfy more reckless consumers in prime time you will also see the price beside prime time go down further, and sometimes they have to pay just to get rid of the energy to keep the system in balance and prevent the turbines from melting down.

Jakob wrote:
­A modern windmill can normally be stopped and started a lot faster, so it is a lot more flexible.

Into the Night wrote:

Jakob wrote:
­There is no way that I can stand in your way.

But you sure want to, don't ya?

Jakob wrote:No, but USA is Denmark's closest allied, so it is on my mind that you make the right choices for a good and sustainable future.­

Jakob wrote:
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Here the consumers can see the raw hourly electricity prices in Denmark:
https://www.nordpoolgroup.com/en/Market-data1/Dayahead/Area-Prices/DK/Hourly/?view=table

DK1 is West-Denmark.
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