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Biogeochemical GRID-LEVEL ENERGY STORAGE



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Biogeochemical GRID-LEVEL ENERGY STORAGE07-04-2022 03:25
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4323)
https://hackaday.com/2022/04/06/grid-level-energy-storage-and-the-challenge-of-storing-energy-efficiently/

Very long article about the various options available today, and how critical it is that we come up with something soon. The nature of renewable 'green' alternatives, cause the grid to crash frequently, with blackouts, as the grid system controls reboot, and attempt to balance the demand, with the energy available.

Pretty much, the article admits, that we got nothing, that could be scaled up to grid-level functionality. Solar panels are the worst alternative, since they only produce during the daytime (lowest demand). The surplus during the day, just goes to waste, but who cares. It's 'free' energy anyway. Well, except for the power companies, who are required to buy ObamaSolar, by law, even if they can't store, or sell.
07-04-2022 15:40
GretaGroupieProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(350)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Solar panels are the worst alternative, since they only produce during the daytime (lowest demand). The surplus during the day, just goes to waste, but who cares

Jimmy Carter cared. Didn't he put solar panels on the White House?
07-04-2022 20:34
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
GretaGroupie wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Solar panels are the worst alternative, since they only produce during the daytime (lowest demand). The surplus during the day, just goes to waste, but who cares

Jimmy Carter cared. Didn't he put solar panels on the White House?

Jimmy Carter cared so much he implemented price controls on gasoline, resulting in massive shortages.
He cared so much he barfed on the Prime Minister of Japan (I guess tentacles didn't agree with him!).

Solar panels are the most expensive method of generating electricity there is. They can be useful in remote locations, but they are useless when cheaper forms of energy are available.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-04-2022 22:15
Spongy Iris
★★★★☆
(1169)
GretaGroupie wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Solar panels are the worst alternative, since they only produce during the daytime (lowest demand). The surplus during the day, just goes to waste, but who cares

Jimmy Carter cared. Didn't he put solar panels on the White House?


It's pretty easy to type into a search engine, Can go store solar power?

"Yes, you can store solar power. All you need is a home battery.

The simplest and best way for homeowners to solve solar power's energy glitch is to install a solar battery--a battery that stores energy from solar panels during the day, so you can still use solar generated electricity at night. It really is that simple. Solar batteries are charged each day with electricity generated by solar panels (or, alternately, they can be charged with electricity straight from the grid.) These daylight hours are usually times that households need electricity the least; households are lit with natural light (thanks to the sun... again) and many people are out of the house. During these hours, unstored electricity generated by solar panels either goes unused, or leaks back into the power grid. With a solar battery, this energy is waiting to welcome you home to a fully-charged house, ready for whatever you have planned for the evening."

https://www.swellenergy.com/blog/can-you-store-solar-power/#:~:text=called%20Energy%20Storage.-,Yes%2C%20you%20can%20store%20solar%20power.,solar%20generated%20electricity%20at%20night.


08-04-2022 00:02
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4323)
Spongy Iris wrote:
GretaGroupie wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Solar panels are the worst alternative, since they only produce during the daytime (lowest demand). The surplus during the day, just goes to waste, but who cares

Jimmy Carter cared. Didn't he put solar panels on the White House?


It's pretty easy to type into a search engine, Can go store solar power?

"Yes, you can store solar power. All you need is a home battery.

The simplest and best way for homeowners to solve solar power's energy glitch is to install a solar battery--a battery that stores energy from solar panels during the day, so you can still use solar generated electricity at night. It really is that simple. Solar batteries are charged each day with electricity generated by solar panels (or, alternately, they can be charged with electricity straight from the grid.) These daylight hours are usually times that households need electricity the least; households are lit with natural light (thanks to the sun... again) and many people are out of the house. During these hours, unstored electricity generated by solar panels either goes unused, or leaks back into the power grid. With a solar battery, this energy is waiting to welcome you home to a fully-charged house, ready for whatever you have planned for the evening."

https://www.swellenergy.com/blog/can-you-store-solar-power/#:~:text=called%20Energy%20Storage.-,Yes%2C%20you%20can%20store%20solar%20power.,solar%20generated%20electricity%20at%20night.


The article I quoted, was about grid-level power storage. Home, grid-tied solar installations are only a smaller part of that. Home battery solutions are expensive. That's why Obama pushed grid-tie systems. It's not just a battery add-on. You need a battery charger/monitoring system. Never interested enough to look into the inverter needed to power your home from the battery. The grid-tie inverter might/might not be useful here. Not exactly the same piece of equipment, and probably not dual function. The more crap you have running off the battery, the quicker it discharges. Most of the batteries are only meant to power essentially, when power goes out, not everything in your house.

The main selling point of grid-tie, was selling your solar-power to the electric company, offsetting your power bill. It greatly simplified the system, since the home is still drawing power from the grid. All you want to use, not limited to just what is produced. Battery, and battery management gets expensive, and not so impressive for the additional cost. You won't go completely off-grid with these systems, without major reduction of power usage. Most people who bought the solar hype, aren't getting anything more than a small monthly discount on their electric bill, not a paycheck every month. Those getting major savings, or even paid out, bought ultra-high efficiency appliances and lighting. Reduced the power usages to bare minimal, and alternatives like gas powered appliances. No central heat/AC, dishwasher, laundry... Figuring in all they spent on solar, and greening, they really aren't saving a cent.

It's pretty easy to do the math, and see just how much battery capacity you would need to power your home each day. You are only saving the difference between low-demand rates, and peek. Only going to get a few hours of run-time, if the grid power goes out. Marketing hype, and actual benefit are two different things.
08-04-2022 00:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
Spongy Iris wrote:
GretaGroupie wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Solar panels are the worst alternative, since they only produce during the daytime (lowest demand). The surplus during the day, just goes to waste, but who cares

Jimmy Carter cared. Didn't he put solar panels on the White House?


It's pretty easy to type into a search engine, Can go store solar power?

"Yes, you can store solar power. All you need is a home battery.

Nah. Just a battery will do for the ballasting.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The simplest and best way for homeowners to solve solar power's energy glitch is to install a solar battery

No glitch. Using batteries to ballast solar power is common, but expensive.
Spongy Iris wrote:
--a battery that stores energy from solar panels during the day, so you can still use solar generated electricity at night. It really is that simple. Solar batteries are charged each day with electricity generated by solar panels

That energy is not available for use when charging batteries. It is being spent charging batteries.
Spongy Iris wrote:
(or, alternately, they can be charged with electricity straight from the grid.)

Then you are just using power from the grid.
Spongy Iris wrote:
These daylight hours are usually times that households need electricity the least; households are lit with natural light (thanks to the sun... again) and many people are out of the house. During these hours, unstored electricity generated by solar panels either goes unused, or leaks back into the power grid. With a solar battery, this energy is waiting to welcome you home to a fully-charged house, ready for whatever you have planned for the evening."

Maybe. It takes time to charge batteries.

Remember that solar panels are expensive, and batteries are expensive. There are much cheaper ways of getting electricity for your home.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
08-04-2022 03:26
Spongy Iris
★★★★☆
(1169)
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


08-04-2022 05:06
GasGuzzler
★★★★★
(2540)
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


Am I missing something??? 1200 watts won't run my toaster!


Studies show that if you force several tubs of peanut butter down the throats of newborns, in some cases it could potentially be toxic. In cities where infant-PB-stuffing is more common, infant deaths increased by over 47% with corresponding increases in dead-infant obesity.. -IBdaMann
08-04-2022 05:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.

Wow. A whopping 1.2kw...for $3579! And no batteries! You DO realize, don't you, that 1.2kwh of power from the grid is $0.11 or so...and that's available 24/7? No battery needed?

I guess you also forgot that solar panels need maintenance. Don't need to worry much about it with power from the grid.

Oh yes...you can expect to spend $33,000 for a 12kw battery, needed to get through that long night. Oh...you need the entire solar panel output to charge your battery, so it's no longer available for other uses, and neither is the battery (it's being charged).

Do the math, stupid.

Oh yes...1.2kw is not enough to run a microwave, a toaster, a full sized refrigerator, a stove, even the blower assembly on a gas furnace, or supply a house with the electrical needs as required by the National Electrical code.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 08-04-2022 05:34
08-04-2022 05:32
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


Am I missing something??? 1200 watts won't run my toaster!

You aren't missing anything. He is. He's missing the math.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
08-04-2022 06:57
Spongy Iris
★★★★☆
(1169)
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


Am I missing something??? 1200 watts won't run my toaster!

You aren't missing anything. He is. He's missing the math.


Actually that was the ad headline so you are missing a detail.

Scroll down there are:

6 x 200 Watt Monocrystalline Solar Panels 12V - 25-Year Power Output Warranty
4 x 12v Batteries - Choice of AGM or Lithium with varying capacities - 5-7 Year Warranty

So that equals 7200 watts.

Ok it looks like you will need to buy about 4 of those to power your home. So maybe 5 years is a better estimate for how long it takes to see financial savings if you DIY.

I'm also a huge gas guzzler, so I would probably need to buy 8 if I were to do this project. There may be better deals. That was just the first ad I found.


08-04-2022 07:01
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12547)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home. Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar
Am I missing something??? 1200 watts won't run my toaster!

Yes, GasGuzzler, what you are missing is that you just buy the $5,720 DIY residential home system if you have a toaster. Voial! Problem solved! ... and I might add that it is a problem you created, i.e. you brought it on yourself, so stop your bitching. Your mega-drain on the grid is not the fault of the caring people who offer you a solution.

Next you're going to tell me that you need to run a refrigerator as well. Hey, if you're going to make a concerted effort to singlehandedly destroy our delicate global ecosystem, well I guess you can just go ahead and spend the additional $4,250 to run that Climate-killer. You can carry it on your conscience.

Let me guess, you have an electric can-opener? Seriously? You hate humanity THAT much? Don't expect me to shed any tears when you have to heap on another $3,579 to get it running.

...
08-04-2022 07:53
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4323)
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


You should know that 3,000 watt inverter will use up, what the solar panels stored in the batteries, in about an hour. 1,200 watts isn't much, if you hope to do more than just lighting. Inverters sound cool, but they are power hungry, not super-efficient. Better off looking for DC appliances (camping, boating). I played with solar panels for a while, when I first moved to Florida. Wanted to at least run a coffee pot, or microwave after a hurricane. The 800 watt coffee maker, barely worked, before the battery was drained. Propane burner on the back porch, and cowboy-style coffee worked out better.

Solar is okay, if you don't have a huge need for electricity, and you aren't service by the grid. You aren't going to power your modern home, cheap though.
08-04-2022 10:22
Spongy Iris
★★★★☆
(1169)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


You should know that 3,000 watt inverter will use up, what the solar panels stored in the batteries, in about an hour. 1,200 watts isn't much, if you hope to do more than just lighting. Inverters sound cool, but they are power hungry, not super-efficient. Better off looking for DC appliances (camping, boating). I played with solar panels for a while, when I first moved to Florida. Wanted to at least run a coffee pot, or microwave after a hurricane. The 800 watt coffee maker, barely worked, before the battery was drained. Propane burner on the back porch, and cowboy-style coffee worked out better.

Solar is okay, if you don't have a huge need for electricity, and you aren't service by the grid. You aren't going to power your modern home, cheap though.


The inverter is just if you want to hook up to the AC electrical grid, right? Do you even need the inverter if you want to go off grid, using just DC from the panels?

Ok let's talk numbers... I bet...

$28,000 can get you enough panels to power a lavish home.

55,500 watts.

If you are spending $400 per month on gas and electricity, you would see financial savings in 6 years (or maybe a bit longer if you need to finance the $28,000).

And you wouldn't need to burn coal and gas to power your home!

Maybe with your 50 solar panels, you can even charge your Chevy Bolt!

Talk about the American Dream!

Can you see the solar home? A shining beacon in the crowd!




08-04-2022 16:34
GasGuzzler
★★★★★
(2540)
Spongy Iris wrote:
The inverter is just if you want to hook up to the AC electrical grid, right? Do you even need the inverter if you want to go off grid, using just DC from the panels?

You only need the inverter if you wish to use any of your appliances. Not a huge deal breaker...


Studies show that if you force several tubs of peanut butter down the throats of newborns, in some cases it could potentially be toxic. In cities where infant-PB-stuffing is more common, infant deaths increased by over 47% with corresponding increases in dead-infant obesity.. -IBdaMann
08-04-2022 17:02
GasGuzzler
★★★★★
(2540)
IBdaMann wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home. Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar
Am I missing something??? 1200 watts won't run my toaster!

Yes, GasGuzzler, what you are missing is that you just buy the $5,720 DIY residential home system if you have a toaster. Voial! Problem solved! ... and I might add that it is a problem you created, i.e. you brought it on yourself, so stop your bitching. Your mega-drain on the grid is not the fault of the caring people who offer you a solution.

Next you're going to tell me that you need to run a refrigerator as well. Hey, if you're going to make a concerted effort to singlehandedly destroy our delicate global ecosystem, well I guess you can just go ahead and spend the additional $4,250 to run that Climate-killer. You can carry it on your conscience.

Let me guess, you have an electric can-opener? Seriously? You hate humanity THAT much? Don't expect me to shed any tears when you have to heap on another $3,579 to get it running.

...


No, I don't run an electric can opener! I call Sven when I need my beans opened. Dude is a beast.

I do have a bit of another quandary though. Possibly we need a biogeomass scientist for this. Just do your best.

I have a 1 acre pond full of fish. Due to climate change, we've been a little dry the last few years, and the pond is getting low. In previous years when there was NORMAL rainfall, the pond water would get dirty due to climate change induced erosion.

I read somewhere that planting trees will stop the erosion, so I did just that. It worked so well that I believe this is a secondary low water feedback loop.

Here is the issue...
I need to save my fish and simultaneously be a faithful follower of Climate.

Options,

1) cut down my trees and choke my fish with dirty life saving water
2) Run my 240v well pump 24/7 on the grid
3) destroy another acre of pasture land to install the necessary solar panels to run my well pump.

Please help! Whatever I do seams to be in violation of climate.

PS. I do run an electric knife sharpener. Am I a greedy bastard for insisting on sharp knives to clean my harvest with no waste? I am willing to part with it, but only if it means the fish survive.

Thanks in advance.


Studies show that if you force several tubs of peanut butter down the throats of newborns, in some cases it could potentially be toxic. In cities where infant-PB-stuffing is more common, infant deaths increased by over 47% with corresponding increases in dead-infant obesity.. -IBdaMann
Edited on 08-04-2022 17:13
08-04-2022 19:19
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12547)
GasGuzzler wrote:I have a 1 acre pond full of fish. Due to climate change, we've been a little dry the last few years, and the pond is getting low.

Hold on right there. I see your problem already and I know where this is headed.

You haven't terraformed, have you? Ask me how I knew. The next time you consider the acidifying ocean, realize that you haven't done your part to restore alkAliniTy. WhEre's the salt from the sea wATEr? You are clearly soil-ly scientifically illiterATE. ... and I don't know why I compulsively cApiTalizE select letters.

GasGuzzler wrote: In previous years when there was NORMAL rainfall, the pond water would get dirty due to climate change induced erosion.

... because you neglected to seed the area with ferns. You'll never achieve the low-oxygen content required to produce the methane reservoir you are trying to build. A few septic tanks is not going to cut it.

GasGuzzler wrote:I read somewhere that planting trees will stop the erosion, so I did just that. It worked so well that I believe this is a secondary low water feedback loop.

You never checked for arsenic, nor did you ever examine for hexavalent chromium, did you? You probably don't even own a gamma-spec, do you? Please do your homework first before coming to this board bitching about your sulfates not being reduced.

GasGuzzler wrote:Here is the issue...
I need to save my fish and simultaneously be a faithful follower of Climate.

I hope you caught your little admission right there. You're one of those "land owners" who believes in "private property." How do you expect the government to solve your problems and properly manage the soil if you are keeping all of the help that ClimATE needs at bay? You've entered into paradox A: Do you want to protect ClimATE or do you need to be GREEDY?

GasGuzzler wrote:Options,

1) cut down my trees and choke my fish with dirty life saving water
2) Run my 240v well pump 24/7 on the grid
3) destroy another acre of pasture land to install the necessary solar panels to run my well pump.


1) fill the pond with plentiful sea water for an instant WIN-WIN!
2) cover the entire area with green, renewable wind turbines topped with solar panels and use them to run a bunch of toasters.
3) write your Congressman and push for a tax increase of 7-12%

GasGuzzler wrote:Please help! Whatever I do seams to be in violation of climate.

That's because your desire is not genuine. You are a TROLL. You have insisted on destroying your pond just like you have destroyed this board. I'm not going to play your "definitions" word games. Soon my army of scientists will visit your pond and they'll be able to fish whatever they want without having to deal with any of your ClimATE-denying mud.

GasGuzzler wrote:PS. I do run an electric knife sharpener. Am I a greedy bastard for insisting on sharp knives to clean my harvest with no waste? I am willing to part with it, but only if it means the fish survive.

Oh sure, at the cost of how many Dominican coral reefs? I remember back when they were so beautiful ... and you destroyed them before you even knew what you were doing. Then you used your knife sharpener to carve open a big hole in the ozone layer. You might not have intended to do so, but the delicate ozone is only millimeters thick and you were careless thinking only of your GREED.

I'm not going to dignify your post with a direct response to you, GasGuzzler. I'm going to direct this post to my audience.

@audience ... all of the above.
08-04-2022 19:35
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4323)
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


You should know that 3,000 watt inverter will use up, what the solar panels stored in the batteries, in about an hour. 1,200 watts isn't much, if you hope to do more than just lighting. Inverters sound cool, but they are power hungry, not super-efficient. Better off looking for DC appliances (camping, boating). I played with solar panels for a while, when I first moved to Florida. Wanted to at least run a coffee pot, or microwave after a hurricane. The 800 watt coffee maker, barely worked, before the battery was drained. Propane burner on the back porch, and cowboy-style coffee worked out better.

Solar is okay, if you don't have a huge need for electricity, and you aren't service by the grid. You aren't going to power your modern home, cheap though.


The inverter is just if you want to hook up to the AC electrical grid, right? Do you even need the inverter if you want to go off grid, using just DC from the panels?

Ok let's talk numbers... I bet...

$28,000 can get you enough panels to power a lavish home.

55,500 watts.

If you are spending $400 per month on gas and electricity, you would see financial savings in 6 years (or maybe a bit longer if you need to finance the $28,000).

And you wouldn't need to burn coal and gas to power your home!

Maybe with your 50 solar panels, you can even charge your Chevy Bolt!

Talk about the American Dream!

Can you see the solar home? A shining beacon in the crowd!



The panels only produce electricity in the daytime, so you need some batteries to charge. Peak usage is mostly in the evening hours. Which is fine, since they can charge while you are at work, or the beach... The batteries, charge controller, and monitoring circuits are going to cost some bucks too, specially on that scale. And yeah, if you figure on a luxury home, you'll want an inverter. DC appliances will get the job done, but suck almost as bad as high-efficiency rated appliances... You'll want TV, cable, internet. Water heater... Though you can get a solar water heater. Basically, it's like a new hobby. You start off thinking to get in basic and cheap, but quickly learn you need to keep spending more, and more. It's really about whether you intend to let it grow, until you achieve the level of comfort you want. Or, see how much convenience and comfort you want to give up, to live on the cheap.
08-04-2022 20:52
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


Am I missing something??? 1200 watts won't run my toaster!

You aren't missing anything. He is. He's missing the math.


Actually that was the ad headline so you are missing a detail.

Scroll down there are:

6 x 200 Watt Monocrystalline Solar Panels 12V - 25-Year Power Output Warranty

Which is 1200 watts. That means in one hour you have 1200wh. Whoopie. All for only $3795! LOL
Spongy Iris wrote:
4 x 12v Batteries - Choice of AGM or Lithium with varying capacities - 5-7 Year Warranty

A lithium-ion cell's voltage is 3.7 volts. Two of them in series makes 7.4v. Three of them in series makes 11.7v. One stack of these cells (typically similar to AA size) can handle 1A.

This gives a discharge capability of 11.7w.

Four of these stacks will give you a total capacity of 46.8w.

Lithium batteries are expensive. You are going to need more than 4 stacks of them.

You'll be paying about $140/kwh. You will need 12kwh to get through the night, making the total cost of just the cells $1680. You will then need the charging circuit, an inverter powerful enough, and associated wiring and installation costs. You can add about $400.

Total cost, for a system that can't run anything during the day (because all of it's capacity is used to charge the batteries), and at night is not even enough to run a toaster or microwave, is:
3795 + 1680 + 400 = $5875
Spongy Iris wrote:
So that equals 7200 watts.

No. It equals 1200 watts. Not enough to run any toaster or microwave.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Ok it looks like you will need to buy about 4 of those to power your home. So maybe 5 years is a better estimate for how long it takes to see financial savings if you DIY.

It will not power your home. Indeed, your home powered solely by such a system would not meet code. You couldn't live in it. The national electrical code is used by every county in the States, with most adding additional requirements. The county will not give you an occupancy permit until you meet all plumbing, electrical, structural, HVAC, insulation, and water use codes.
Spongy Iris wrote:
I'm also a huge gas guzzler, so I would probably need to buy 8 if I were to do this project. There may be better deals. That was just the first ad I found.

Okay. Multiply your costs by eight. You are now at $47,000; but you will finally have enough to run a microwave AND a toaster, but only during the night. All that power from the solar panels is being used to charge the batteries during the day is not available for any other use.



Note that installation costs are NOT included, nor are the costs of permits and inspections.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
08-04-2022 20:55
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


You should know that 3,000 watt inverter will use up, what the solar panels stored in the batteries, in about an hour. 1,200 watts isn't much, if you hope to do more than just lighting. Inverters sound cool, but they are power hungry, not super-efficient. Better off looking for DC appliances (camping, boating). I played with solar panels for a while, when I first moved to Florida. Wanted to at least run a coffee pot, or microwave after a hurricane. The 800 watt coffee maker, barely worked, before the battery was drained. Propane burner on the back porch, and cowboy-style coffee worked out better.

Solar is okay, if you don't have a huge need for electricity, and you aren't service by the grid. You aren't going to power your modern home, cheap though.

No, it's not cheap. You won't get your home past the county inspectors either. It wouldn't meet the current electrical code.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
08-04-2022 20:57
sealover
★★★☆☆
(804)
Meh.

Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


You should know that 3,000 watt inverter will use up, what the solar panels stored in the batteries, in about an hour. 1,200 watts isn't much, if you hope to do more than just lighting. Inverters sound cool, but they are power hungry, not super-efficient. Better off looking for DC appliances (camping, boating). I played with solar panels for a while, when I first moved to Florida. Wanted to at least run a coffee pot, or microwave after a hurricane. The 800 watt coffee maker, barely worked, before the battery was drained. Propane burner on the back porch, and cowboy-style coffee worked out better.

Solar is okay, if you don't have a huge need for electricity, and you aren't service by the grid. You aren't going to power your modern home, cheap though.

No, it's not cheap. You won't get your home past the county inspectors either. It wouldn't meet the current electrical code.
08-04-2022 20:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


You should know that 3,000 watt inverter will use up, what the solar panels stored in the batteries, in about an hour. 1,200 watts isn't much, if you hope to do more than just lighting. Inverters sound cool, but they are power hungry, not super-efficient. Better off looking for DC appliances (camping, boating). I played with solar panels for a while, when I first moved to Florida. Wanted to at least run a coffee pot, or microwave after a hurricane. The 800 watt coffee maker, barely worked, before the battery was drained. Propane burner on the back porch, and cowboy-style coffee worked out better.

Solar is okay, if you don't have a huge need for electricity, and you aren't service by the grid. You aren't going to power your modern home, cheap though.


The inverter is just if you want to hook up to the AC electrical grid, right? Do you even need the inverter if you want to go off grid, using just DC from the panels?

Ok let's talk numbers... I bet...

$28,000 can get you enough panels to power a lavish home.

55,500 watts.

If you are spending $400 per month on gas and electricity, you would see financial savings in 6 years (or maybe a bit longer if you need to finance the $28,000).

And you wouldn't need to burn coal and gas to power your home!

Maybe with your 50 solar panels, you can even charge your Chevy Bolt!

Talk about the American Dream!

Can you see the solar home? A shining beacon in the crowd!


Nowhere near it. You still haven't got the math figured out. Solar power is the most expensive way of generating electricity.

Your beacon is dark.
It's also probably an eyesore with all the solar panels you have mounted everywhere.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
08-04-2022 22:58
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


You should know that 3,000 watt inverter will use up, what the solar panels stored in the batteries, in about an hour. 1,200 watts isn't much, if you hope to do more than just lighting. Inverters sound cool, but they are power hungry, not super-efficient. Better off looking for DC appliances (camping, boating). I played with solar panels for a while, when I first moved to Florida. Wanted to at least run a coffee pot, or microwave after a hurricane. The 800 watt coffee maker, barely worked, before the battery was drained. Propane burner on the back porch, and cowboy-style coffee worked out better.

Solar is okay, if you don't have a huge need for electricity, and you aren't service by the grid. You aren't going to power your modern home, cheap though.


The inverter is just if you want to hook up to the AC electrical grid, right? Do you even need the inverter if you want to go off grid, using just DC from the panels?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Ok let's talk numbers... I bet...

$28,000 can get you enough panels to power a lavish home.

55,500 watts.

Not for 55,500 watts.
You can expect to spend about $150,000 for such a system. It's not a lavish home, and you won't have a yard (it's full of solar panels), and no power is available during the day, since you are charging batteries with it.

That includes the panels, charger, and ballasting using lithium-ion batteries.

In other words, it costs more than the house in many cases.

Spongy Iris wrote:

If you are spending $400 per month on gas and electricity, you would see financial savings in 6 years (or maybe a bit longer if you need to finance the $28,000).

Faulty math. You ignored Ohm's law again, and you ignored the cost of producing 55kw of electricity.
Spongy Iris wrote:
And you wouldn't need to burn coal and gas to power your home!

No, they they are both a hell of a lot cheaper way to heat and provide power for a home.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Maybe with your 50 solar panels, you can even charge your Chevy Bolt!

In about 12 hours, yes. Careful with that one...they are still having issues with battery fires.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Talk about the American Dream!

Nah. Just your nightmare.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Can you see the solar home? A shining beacon in the crowd!

Your beacon is only showing how much money you wasted.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 08-04-2022 23:01
08-04-2022 23:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
sealover wrote:
Meh.

Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
You sound like you're into DIY stuff Harvey.

Here's a pretty comprehensive DIY solar kit for $3,579 for a residential home.

Complete DIY Solar Panel Kit - 1,200 Watts Solar + 3,000W Pure Sine Inverter / Charger 120V Output | 24VDC | [DIY-10]

https://shopsolarkits.com/products/complete-diy-solar-panel-kit-10?currency=USD&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&c1=GAW&source=prospecting&cr2=shopping_-_us_-_off-grid_kits&kw=shopify_US_6578007507084_39340072042636&cr7=m&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl7qSBhD-ARIsACvV1X1OIsu76-GaIJJz875hRpVgKEep7Z6w9OijzspnTGJTAl2rpE3tbmkaAj8YEALw_wcB

If your power bill is $250 per month, that is $3000 per year. After 15 months this kit should yield you a lot of savings.


You should know that 3,000 watt inverter will use up, what the solar panels stored in the batteries, in about an hour. 1,200 watts isn't much, if you hope to do more than just lighting. Inverters sound cool, but they are power hungry, not super-efficient. Better off looking for DC appliances (camping, boating). I played with solar panels for a while, when I first moved to Florida. Wanted to at least run a coffee pot, or microwave after a hurricane. The 800 watt coffee maker, barely worked, before the battery was drained. Propane burner on the back porch, and cowboy-style coffee worked out better.

Solar is okay, if you don't have a huge need for electricity, and you aren't service by the grid. You aren't going to power your modern home, cheap though.

No, it's not cheap. You won't get your home past the county inspectors either. It wouldn't meet the current electrical code.

So you want to spend all that money and not be able to live in your home?? Don't ignore those inspectors. They have the authority to kick you out of your home, AND make you tear out the nonconforming bits at your expense!


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 08-04-2022 23:05
09-04-2022 06:37
Spongy Iris
★★★★☆
(1169)
Into the Night wrote:


Not for 55,500 watts.
You can expect to spend about $150,000 for such a system. It's not a lavish home, and you won't have a yard (it's full of solar panels), and no power is available during the day, since you are charging batteries with it.

That includes the panels, charger, and ballasting using lithium-ion batteries.

In other words, it costs more than the house in many cases.
.


The average household electricity consumption kWh per day is 28.9.

So 55 kWh is good if you run a pretty high energy life, no?

Ok so 6 panels gives 1.2 kW, ouch not much.

55 / 1.2 = 46

46×6=276 panels per lavish house.

If $500 per panel = 138,000

This is turning out to be one hell of a DIY project.


09-04-2022 08:52
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:


Not for 55,500 watts.
You can expect to spend about $150,000 for such a system. It's not a lavish home, and you won't have a yard (it's full of solar panels), and no power is available during the day, since you are charging batteries with it.

That includes the panels, charger, and ballasting using lithium-ion batteries.

In other words, it costs more than the house in many cases.
.


The average household electricity consumption kWh per day is 28.9.

Scaling error.
Spongy Iris wrote:
So 55 kWh is good if you run a pretty high energy life, no?

Scaling error. A day is not one hour long.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Ok so 6 panels gives 1.2 kW, ouch not much.

55 / 1.2 = 46

46×6=276 panels per lavish house.

Unit error. Watts are not watt-hours.
Spongy Iris wrote:
If $500 per panel = 138,000

This is turning out to be one hell of a DIY project.

I already was pointing this out.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
09-04-2022 09:21
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
The math in Perth WA is very simple.A quality system with battery storage will cost a little under 10,000AUD installed.It will make enough to power a standard house and the extra can be sold back to the grid operator.The WA government is giving back a 3700 AUD rebate now.If it is like the Auto gas rebate as soon as enough are installed it will be scrapped.Some installers are offering free installation as for 3700AUD they can fit an inferior system with no battery storage and they claim the rebate.You will still get bills but they will be tiny.If you fit timers to your fridges and freezers you will break even.
09-04-2022 09:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
duncan61 wrote:
The math in Perth WA is very simple.A quality system with battery storage will cost a little under 10,000AUD installed.It will make enough to power a standard house and the extra can be sold back to the grid operator.The WA government is giving back a 3700 AUD rebate now.If it is like the Auto gas rebate as soon as enough are installed it will be scrapped.Some installers are offering free installation as for 3700AUD they can fit an inferior system with no battery storage and they claim the rebate.You will still get bills but they will be tiny.If you fit timers to your fridges and freezers you will break even.

There is no such thing as a 'standard house'.
So you embrace communism. Accepting a rebate for that system means others are paying for it, forced to do so by government.

No math presented.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 09-04-2022 09:30
09-04-2022 09:53
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
A standard house in the suburbs is a 4 bedroom 2 bathroom usually with a parents retreat or study.You can still get entry level houses that are 3 bedrooms and 1 bathroom with 2 doors.These houses are Traditionally built in low socioeconomic areas for Poor fat white trash which is what I am but I live with family members and can afford to live in Karrinyup which is a rather affluent area.I feel Perth is a great place to live .If it is communist I never noticed and do not care.The government has gazillions of dollars raised from royalties from exporting minerals.I think investing it back in to the community to be a good thing.No one is forced to do anything.Do you yankee dogs still do the reds under the bed thing.That is so out of date
09-04-2022 10:07
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(12547)
duncan61 wrote:The math in Perth WA is very simple.

Hey genius, post this math of which you speak.

1) A quality system = ~ 10,000AUD installed.
2) It will make enough to power a standard [?] house
3) the extra can be sold back to the grid operator.

duncan ... does anything appear missing? I'll give you three guesses ... and a hint: a four-letter word beginning with "m" "a" "t" "h"

[ I don't think you even know what math is. You probably think it is a female moth]
09-04-2022 10:15
duncan61
★★★★★
(2003)
So I posted how Domestic solar works here and all you care about is the word math.Riiiight doctor evil style
09-04-2022 11:20
Spongy Iris
★★★★☆
(1169)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:


Not for 55,500 watts.
You can expect to spend about $150,000 for such a system. It's not a lavish home, and you won't have a yard (it's full of solar panels), and no power is available during the day, since you are charging batteries with it.

That includes the panels, charger, and ballasting using lithium-ion batteries.

In other words, it costs more than the house in many cases.
.


The average household electricity consumption kWh per day is 28.9.

Scaling error.
Spongy Iris wrote:
So 55 kWh is good if you run a pretty high energy life, no?

Scaling error. A day is not one hour long.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Ok so 6 panels gives 1.2 kW, ouch not much.

55 / 1.2 = 46

46×6=276 panels per lavish house.

Unit error. Watts are not watt-hours.
Spongy Iris wrote:
If $500 per panel = 138,000

This is turning out to be one hell of a DIY project.

I already was pointing this out.


Well it It looks like we came to almost the same answer anyways.

But to clear things up regarding the the standard unit of measurement...

KWh is not the number of kilowatts you're using in an hour. A kWh equals the amount of energy you would use by keeping a 1,000 watt appliance running for one hour.

Example...

Appliance: Refrigerator

Number of Watts: 300 watts

Hours used per day: 8 hours (while it keeps your food cold all day long, the motor is only running about 8 hours a day)

300 watts X 8 hours = 2,400 watt-hours per day

2,400 watt-hours per day / 1000 = 2.4 kWh per day

So looks like about 12 solar panels are needed to power a fridge.


09-04-2022 15:23
GretaGroupieProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(350)
Into the Night wrote:
Jimmy Carter...He cared so much he barfed on the Prime Minister of Japan (I guess tentacles didn't agree with him!).

Actually, ITN, wasn't it King George Bush the first who puked on Japan's PM?

09-04-2022 15:51
GretaGroupieProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(350)
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's pretty easy to type into a search engine, Can go store solar power?
"Yes, you can store solar power. All you need is a home battery.

Thanks for all the helpful information Spongy.

Boy, I just stepped away for two days and this whole thread just blew up!
09-04-2022 16:45
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4323)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:


Not for 55,500 watts.
You can expect to spend about $150,000 for such a system. It's not a lavish home, and you won't have a yard (it's full of solar panels), and no power is available during the day, since you are charging batteries with it.

That includes the panels, charger, and ballasting using lithium-ion batteries.

In other words, it costs more than the house in many cases.
.


The average household electricity consumption kWh per day is 28.9.

Scaling error.
Spongy Iris wrote:
So 55 kWh is good if you run a pretty high energy life, no?

Scaling error. A day is not one hour long.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Ok so 6 panels gives 1.2 kW, ouch not much.

55 / 1.2 = 46

46×6=276 panels per lavish house.

Unit error. Watts are not watt-hours.
Spongy Iris wrote:
If $500 per panel = 138,000

This is turning out to be one hell of a DIY project.

I already was pointing this out.


Well it It looks like we came to almost the same answer anyways.

But to clear things up regarding the the standard unit of measurement...

KWh is not the number of kilowatts you're using in an hour. A kWh equals the amount of energy you would use by keeping a 1,000 watt appliance running for one hour.

Example...

Appliance: Refrigerator

Number of Watts: 300 watts

Hours used per day: 8 hours (while it keeps your food cold all day long, the motor is only running about 8 hours a day)

300 watts X 8 hours = 2,400 watt-hours per day

2,400 watt-hours per day / 1000 = 2.4 kWh per day

So looks like about 12 solar panels are needed to power a fridge.


Not so fast... Solar panels depend on full sunlight, hitting them directly. The rating is based on ideal conditions. You want get the same output, all day long. Might get the maximum output during mid-day. You'll need More panels to charge batteries, and run the refrigerator.

The marketing, the media hype, the left-government, make it sound so affordable, so simple, and a great investment... The simple truth, is that you will pretty much never have your stationary mounted solar panel ideally lined up with the sun, even a few hours each day. If you go with the minimal, just to run an appliance, you will always come up short. That's why the battery-free, grid-tie system were subsidized, and encouraged most. Most everyone would at least see a small reduction in their monthly bills, just not huge discounts as marketed. You can save about as much, by reducing the amount of energy you use/waste
09-04-2022 19:40
GretaGroupieProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(350)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Not so fast... Solar panels depend on full sunlight, hitting them directly. The rating is based on ideal conditions.

Oh, come now Harvey.

For a few million dollars you could buy one of those tracking assemblies like they have on the Hubbub tellescope so that they're always facing the sun, even at night.

Now that would up the eficiency.
09-04-2022 21:07
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4323)
GretaGroupie wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Not so fast... Solar panels depend on full sunlight, hitting them directly. The rating is based on ideal conditions.

Oh, come now Harvey.

For a few million dollars you could buy one of those tracking assemblies like they have on the Hubbub tellescope so that they're always facing the sun, even at night.

Now that would up the eficiency.


Not so much, since the actuators require energy to move the panels. But, it does illustrate how inefficient the whole solar-scheme. You can't just get by, with just installing the solar panels. You need to build a system, to be somewhat useful. You need to keep building onto that system, in hopes to get a reasonable return, and function, out of your already considerable investment. But, with the more you add on, the more energy used by the system, and not the homeowner. You can eventually get a complex system, that provides what you expected from the start, but more parts, means more maintenance, and fail points.
09-04-2022 21:53
Spongy Iris
★★★★☆
(1169)
GretaGroupie wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's pretty easy to type into a search engine, Can go store solar power?
"Yes, you can store solar power. All you need is a home battery.

Thanks for all the helpful information Spongy.

Boy, I just stepped away for two days and this whole thread just blew up!


Haha no problem.

You know I never thought about how expensive solar panels were until this thread.

I can see why they only account for such a small fraction of the world's energy use.

They take up a lot of space, and it would probably take about 40 years before seeing any financial savings from installing them.


09-04-2022 22:37
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4323)
Spongy Iris wrote:
GretaGroupie wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
It's pretty easy to type into a search engine, Can go store solar power?
"Yes, you can store solar power. All you need is a home battery.

Thanks for all the helpful information Spongy.

Boy, I just stepped away for two days and this whole thread just blew up!


Haha no problem.

You know I never thought about how expensive solar panels were until this thread.

I can see why they only account for such a small fraction of the world's energy use.

They take up a lot of space, and it would probably take about 40 years before seeing any financial savings from installing them.


Solar works okay for a lot of applications, but it doesn't scale up well. Certainly lose a lot of appeal, when cheaper, more accessible power sources are available.

The main problem with solar, is the an individual cell, only provide 0.5 volts. A solar panel links a lot of the cells in series to get a useful voltage. Then, you need link a bunch of those in parallel to get the current needed to do actual work. You can't stack them up either, just a single layer. The more power you need, the greater the surface area required.

Ever think about how often you need to wash your windows? You home, your car, get rained on, rinsed off often enough, but you still need to give them the soap and water scrub, a few times a year. Solar panels lose efficiency, as the pollen, dust, and crap (bird) build up. Your solar farm is going to need the same attention, as the windows.
10-04-2022 09:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(19208)
duncan61 wrote:
So I posted how Domestic solar works here and all you care about is the word math.Riiiight doctor evil style


If you ignore the math, you will just waste your money (and other people's money).


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
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