Biogeochemical GRID-LEVEL ENERGY STORAGE

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10-04-2022 09:46
Into the Night★★★★★ (21599)	Spongy Iris wrote: Into the Night wrote: Spongy Iris wrote: Into the Night wrote: Not for 55,500 watts. You can expect to spend about $150,000 for such a system. It's not a lavish home, and you won't have a yard (it's full of solar panels), and no power is available during the day, since you are charging batteries with it. That includes the panels, charger, and ballasting using lithium-ion batteries. In other words, it costs more than the house in many cases. . The average household electricity consumption kWh per day is 28.9. Scaling error. Spongy Iris wrote: So 55 kWh is good if you run a pretty high energy life, no? Scaling error. A day is not one hour long. Spongy Iris wrote: Ok so 6 panels gives 1.2 kW, ouch not much. 55 / 1.2 = 46 46×6=276 panels per lavish house. Unit error. Watts are not watt-hours. Spongy Iris wrote: If $500 per panel = 138,000 This is turning out to be one hell of a DIY project. I already was pointing this out. Well it It looks like we came to almost the same answer anyways. But to clear things up regarding the the standard unit of measurement... KWh is not the number of kilowatts you're using in an hour. A kWh equals the amount of energy you would use by keeping a 1,000 watt appliance running for one hour. KWh is the number of kilowatts you're using in an hour. Spongy Iris wrote: Example... Appliance: Refrigerator Number of Watts: 300 watts Hours used per day: 8 hours (while it keeps your food cold all day long, the motor is only running about 8 hours a day) 300 watts X 8 hours = 2,400 watt-hours per day Unit error. Watts is not watt hours. Spongy Iris wrote: 2,400 watt-hours per day / 1000 = 2.4 kWh per day So looks like about 12 solar panels are needed to power a fridge. You need to power more than a fridge, AND you need to charge the batteries. You can't do both with the same panels. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
10-04-2022 09:47
Into the Night★★★★★ (21599)	GretaGroupie wrote: Into the Night wrote: Jimmy Carter...He cared so much he barfed on the Prime Minister of Japan (I guess tentacles didn't agree with him!). Actually, ITN, wasn't it King George Bush the first who puked on Japan's PM? It was both. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
10-04-2022 09:52
Into the Night★★★★★ (21599)	HarveyH55 wrote: Spongy Iris wrote: Into the Night wrote: Spongy Iris wrote: Into the Night wrote: Not for 55,500 watts. You can expect to spend about $150,000 for such a system. It's not a lavish home, and you won't have a yard (it's full of solar panels), and no power is available during the day, since you are charging batteries with it. That includes the panels, charger, and ballasting using lithium-ion batteries. In other words, it costs more than the house in many cases. . The average household electricity consumption kWh per day is 28.9. Scaling error. Spongy Iris wrote: So 55 kWh is good if you run a pretty high energy life, no? Scaling error. A day is not one hour long. Spongy Iris wrote: Ok so 6 panels gives 1.2 kW, ouch not much. 55 / 1.2 = 46 46×6=276 panels per lavish house. Unit error. Watts are not watt-hours. Spongy Iris wrote: If $500 per panel = 138,000 This is turning out to be one hell of a DIY project. I already was pointing this out. Well it It looks like we came to almost the same answer anyways. But to clear things up regarding the the standard unit of measurement... KWh is not the number of kilowatts you're using in an hour. A kWh equals the amount of energy you would use by keeping a 1,000 watt appliance running for one hour. Example... Appliance: Refrigerator Number of Watts: 300 watts Hours used per day: 8 hours (while it keeps your food cold all day long, the motor is only running about 8 hours a day) 300 watts X 8 hours = 2,400 watt-hours per day 2,400 watt-hours per day / 1000 = 2.4 kWh per day So looks like about 12 solar panels are needed to power a fridge. Not so fast... Solar panels depend on full sunlight, hitting them directly. Not exactly. They can still put out usable power even on cloudy days. HarveyH55 wrote: The rating is based on ideal conditions. True. HarveyH55 wrote: You want get the same output, all day long. Won't happen due to changing weather. HarveyH55 wrote: Might get the maximum output during mid-day. Depending on the weather. You might get your best power in the morning before afternoon storms start brewing. HarveyH55 wrote: You'll need More panels to charge batteries, and run the refrigerator. True. I already mentioned this. HarveyH55 wrote: The marketing, the media hype, the left-government, make it sound so affordable, so simple, and a great investment... The simple truth, is that you will pretty much never have your stationary mounted solar panel ideally lined up with the sun, even a few hours each day. If you go with the minimal, just to run an appliance, you will always come up short. That's why the battery-free, grid-tie system were subsidized, and encouraged most. Most everyone would at least see a small reduction in their monthly bills, just not huge discounts as marketed. You can save about as much, by reducing the amount of energy you use/waste It's worse than that. It is the most expensive method of generating electricity. As you mentioned, it is heavily subsidized by the government. It is taking money by force and giving it to someone else the government thinks deserves it better than you. There is a word for this: communism. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
10-04-2022 09:53
Into the Night★★★★★ (21599)	GretaGroupie wrote: HarveyH55 wrote: Not so fast... Solar panels depend on full sunlight, hitting them directly. The rating is based on ideal conditions. Oh, come now Harvey. For a few million dollars you could buy one of those tracking assemblies like they have on the Hubbub tellescope so that they're always facing the sun, even at night. Now that would up the eficiency. Facing the Sun...even at night???!? The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
10-04-2022 16:26
GretaGroupie★★☆☆☆ (350)	HarveyH55 wrote: Not so much, since the actuators require energy to move the panels... Gee, Harvey, you couldn't just play the straight man for me on this one? I was making a jokey thing Oh well, your point is well taken. It seems like we're so far down the energy rabbit-hole already, so no matter which direction we turn it's going to just get stranger and stranger.

10-04-2022 16:30
GretaGroupie★★☆☆☆ (350)	Into the Night wrote: Facing the Sun...even at night???!? Oopsey... ditzy gean again! (not me, but close)
10-04-2022 16:35
GretaGroupie★★☆☆☆ (350)	Spongy Iris wrote: They take up a lot of space, and it would probably take about 40 years before seeing any financial savings from installing them. Why don't we just make a massive solar farm in the desert? Lots of free space?
10-04-2022 16:40
GretaGroupie★★☆☆☆ (350)	Into the Night wrote: It was both. Wow, got nuked on and puked on twice! Being PM of Japan is certainly a very dangerous job
10-04-2022 19:01
Spongy Iris★★★★☆ (1643)	GretaGroupie wrote: Spongy Iris wrote: They take up a lot of space, and it would probably take about 40 years before seeing any financial savings from installing them. Why don't we just make a massive solar farm in the desert? Lots of free space? It has been done before. 1 of the 2 biggest solar farms in the world are in the Mojave desert. It's a 3900 acre farm. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Sunlight_Solar_Farm#:~:text=The%20Desert%20Sunlight%20Solar%20Farm,thin%2Dfilm%20manufacturer%20First%20Solar. That farm yields about 1,300,000,000 kWh per year. That's enough to power about 118,000 average homes. The math... (1,300,000,000 / 11,000 = 118,181.81818181...)
10-04-2022 19:19
Into the Night★★★★★ (21599)	GretaGroupie wrote: Spongy Iris wrote: They take up a lot of space, and it would probably take about 40 years before seeing any financial savings from installing them. Why don't we just make a massive solar farm in the desert? Lots of free space? I am a pilot, and occasionally fly over this solar farm as I set up my approach to Las Vegas when I visit there. It is just SW of Las Vegas. The tower with the bright light is filled with salt (now molten). Just north of Las Vegas is a modest coal plant that produces far more power. The grid purchases the cheapest power per watt available. They choose the coal plant. Most of the power from this thing goes to the SDTC (The Socialist Dictatorship of the Territory of California), where the government there has mandated the use of solar power despite it's cost. They import the power from this plant, which is near their border. Despite importing power like this, they are short of power in the SDTC because they have dismantled most power plants. Brown outs and blackouts are common. This is bad news for the people living there because the SDTC has also mandated electric cars. There is no place to charge them reliably. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
10-04-2022 20:14
Into the Night★★★★★ (21599)	Spongy Iris wrote: GretaGroupie wrote: Spongy Iris wrote: They take up a lot of space, and it would probably take about 40 years before seeing any financial savings from installing them. Why don't we just make a massive solar farm in the desert? Lots of free space? It has been done before. 1 of the 2 biggest solar farms in the world are in the Mojave desert. It's a 3900 acre farm. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Sunlight_Solar_Farm#:~:text=The%20Desert%20Sunlight%20Solar%20Farm,thin%2Dfilm%20manufacturer%20First%20Solar. That farm yields about 1,300,000,000 kWh per year. That's enough to power about 118,000 average homes. The math... (1,300,000,000 / 11,000 = 118,181.81818181...) That farm is 164 acres. It generates 25Mw of electricity. That's per HOUR, dude, not per year (or 25Mwh of electricity), and only during the day, near noon, when skies are clear (cloudy and overcast days reduce output, and occur in this region fairly frequently). That's only 211Wh available for each of 118,000 homes. That project cost $110 million to build, or about $4.40 per watt-hour (or about $4400 per kwh). It sells all of it's power to the SDTC. The government there are the only idiots dumb enough to buy such expensive power. The SDTC has a 20 year contract to purchase all the power this thing produces. In addition, the plant requires constant maintenance. Dust storms in the area ruin the mirrors, and they must be replaced frequently (that's the bulk of area you see in the image). The alignment motors also fail fairly regularly due to dust and sand exposure. There are covers on the mechanism to keep it out, but it really gets in everywhere. There are two pumps for the coolant to each tower. One is a backup of the other. Failure in the primary coolant lines means the tower is destroyed. The coolant itself is used to turn a turbine which in turn drives a generator, located in the complex of equipment you see at the base of the tower. As always, synchronization is provided by coordinating with the grid operator and using automated equipment to adjust phase and speed for the turbine-generator combination. Excess coolant energy is radiated into the atmosphere. At night, of course, the plant shuts down. It has no battery or other ballasting. This means the power is NOT available just as peak power demands are occurring in the SDTC. So you can't charge your Tesla overnight with it. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
10-04-2022 20:25
Into the Night★★★★★ (21599)	GretaGroupie wrote: Into the Night wrote: It was both. Wow, got nuked on and puked on twice! Being PM of Japan is certainly a very dangerous job The Japanese really have got to stop serving tentacles for State dinners. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
11-04-2022 17:16
GretaGroupie★★☆☆☆ (350)	Into the Night wrote: Most of the power from this thing goes to the SDTC (The Socialist Dictatorship of the Territory of California).... Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha... I like that! One good ha-ha deserves another, so I thought you'd enjoy this:
11-04-2022 17:19
GretaGroupie★★☆☆☆ (350)	Into the Night wrote: The Japanese really have got to stop serving tentacles for State dinners. Tentacles for dinner? Ewwww.... gross!

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