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What exactly is the evidence that AGW is happening or



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24-11-2019 17:52
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2059)
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved? The hunk of ice moves, but it's independent of the surface melting, or being added to. Glaciers move slowly, but the seasonal expansion and contraction is more rapid. It doesn't really matter in the long run though, ice melts, that's what it does. Water freezes, nothing unusual there either. Ice builds up in the winter, melts in the summer. Neither events are ever the same, from year-to-year. Melting is generally expected, since the glacier was likely form during an ice age, which passed, and it's been getting a little warmer, ever since.
24-11-2019 18:08
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?


You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
24-11-2019 18:25
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1714)
spot wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?


You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.


I read what you write. I read what ITN and IBdaMann write.

No way in hell all 3 are correct. How do I know the "stuff" I read is correct?


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
24-11-2019 18:36
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
GasGuzzler wrote:
spot wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?


You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.


I read what you write. I read what ITN and IBdaMann write.

No way in hell all 3 are correct. How do I know the "stuff" I read is correct?


I was thinking more in the lines of reading books and websites written by people who study glaciers rather then us three. Finding out how glaciers react to climate change is interesting and there are many resources on the subject.


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
24-11-2019 19:18
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1714)
spot wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
spot wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?


You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.


I read what you write. I read what ITN and IBdaMann write.

No way in hell all 3 are correct. How do I know the "stuff" I read is correct?


I was thinking more in the lines of reading books and websites written by people who study glaciers rather then us three. Finding out how glaciers react to climate change is interesting and there are many resources on the subject.


So I took your suggestion and did a little reading on glaciers. I have stumbled across the most amazing quote I think I ever seen. Here's the credits and a link.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145185/major-greenland-glacier-is-growing

NASA Earth Observatory images by Joshua Stevens, using Landsat data from the U.S. Geological Survey, and data courtesy of Josh Willis/NASA JPL and the Oceans Melting Greenland (OMG) Program. Story by Kathryn Hansen.

The quote...

"Even three years after the cold water arrived, the glacier is still reacting," Willis said. "I'm really excited to go back this August and measure the temperature again. Is it still cold? Or has it warmed back up?"

Whoa! Back the truck up! Why on Earth would someone have to measure that water temperature with a thermometer??



gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
24-11-2019 20:05
James___
★★★★★
(2833)
GasGuzzler wrote:
spot wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
spot wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?


You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.


I read what you write. I read what ITN and IBdaMann write.

No way in hell all 3 are correct. How do I know the "stuff" I read is correct?


I was thinking more in the lines of reading books and websites written by people who study glaciers rather then us three. Finding out how glaciers react to climate change is interesting and there are many resources on the subject.


So I took your suggestion and did a little reading on glaciers. I have stumbled across the most amazing quote I think I ever seen. Here's the credits and a link.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145185/major-greenland-glacier-is-growing

NASA Earth Observatory images by Joshua Stevens, using Landsat data from the U.S. Geological Survey, and data courtesy of Josh Willis/NASA JPL and the Oceans Melting Greenland (OMG) Program. Story by Kathryn Hansen.

The quote...

"Even three years after the cold water arrived, the glacier is still reacting," Willis said. "I'm really excited to go back this August and measure the temperature again. Is it still cold? Or has it warmed back up?"

Whoa! Back the truck up! Why on Earth would someone have to measure that water temperature with a thermometer??



You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.
Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?
The area that you are talking about has warmed or cooled 10 years after a magnitude 6.0 earthquake or greater. Which causation are you suggesting happened?

I just checked and there was a 6.1 in 2009. I can show other earthquakes and NASA Earth Observer to show that there is a relationship. I'm thinking that deep faults open and close. I have done more than homework on this


https://photos.app.goo.gl/j3CtVy71uV33uQSd8
Attached image:


Edited on 24-11-2019 20:16
24-11-2019 20:16
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1714)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
spot wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
spot wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?


You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.


I read what you write. I read what ITN and IBdaMann write.

No way in hell all 3 are correct. How do I know the "stuff" I read is correct?


I was thinking more in the lines of reading books and websites written by people who study glaciers rather then us three. Finding out how glaciers react to climate change is interesting and there are many resources on the subject.


So I took your suggestion and did a little reading on glaciers. I have stumbled across the most amazing quote I think I ever seen. Here's the credits and a link.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145185/major-greenland-glacier-is-growing

NASA Earth Observatory images by Joshua Stevens, using Landsat data from the U.S. Geological Survey, and data courtesy of Josh Willis/NASA JPL and the Oceans Melting Greenland (OMG) Program. Story by Kathryn Hansen.

The quote...

"Even three years after the cold water arrived, the glacier is still reacting," Willis said. "I'm really excited to go back this August and measure the temperature again. Is it still cold? Or has it warmed back up?"

Whoa! Back the truck up! Why on Earth would someone have to measure that water temperature with a thermometer??



You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.
Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?
The area that you are talking about has warmed or cooled 10 years after a magnitude 6.0 earthquake or greater. Which causation are you suggesting happened?


None of that James. Method of measurement is all I'm talking about.


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
24-11-2019 20:23
James___
★★★★★
(2833)
GasGuzzler wrote:

None of that James. Method of measurement is all I'm talking about.



What type of thermometer? I doubt that they're dropping a mercury type thermometer into the water.

An electronic thermometer works by putting a voltage across its metal probe and measuring how much current flows through it. If you put the probe in boiling water, the water's heat makes electricity flow through the probe less easily so the resistance goes up by a precisely measurable amount.

Same thing satellite observations are based on. So not sure what point your trying to make. As far as satellites goes, they can be verified. If not then like anything else, how would you know if it's properly calibrated?
24-11-2019 20:37
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1714)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:

None of that James. Method of measurement is all I'm talking about.



What type of thermometer? I doubt that they're dropping a mercury type thermometer into the water.

An electronic thermometer works by putting a voltage across its metal probe and measuring how much current flows through it. If you put the probe in boiling water, the water's heat makes electricity flow through the probe less easily so the resistance goes up by a precisely measurable amount.

Same thing satellite observations are based on. So not sure what point your trying to make. As far as satellites goes, they can be verified. If not then like anything else, how would you know if it's properly calibrated?


If satellite "data" is actually data, why is she so excited to go measure the water temp? Hasn't been there in 3 years but she's drooling over the opportunity to measure it precisely.

Do you not see the problem here?


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
24-11-2019 22:08
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7047)
James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
24-11-2019 22:14
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1714)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


.


Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!



gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
24-11-2019 22:45
James___
★★★★★
(2833)
GasGuzzler wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


.


Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!



I guess that does hide the fact that you posted a link showing that thermometers are used to measure the temperature of water when that's how they have done for who knows how long. I thought that was funnier IMHO


Of course with IBDM, was he performing for your satisfaction? I noticed that you got your rocks off.
Edited on 24-11-2019 22:57
25-11-2019 03:31
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1714)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


.


Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!



I guess that does hide the fact that you posted a link showing that thermometers are used to measure the temperature of water when that's how they have done for who knows how long. I thought that was funnier IMHO



Sure, thermometers are used to measure temperature. However, I'm supposed to believe thermometers are not necessary because satellites can precisely measure the temp of anything. So again, why the need to take a boat to Greenland to measure the water temp 3 years later??


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
25-11-2019 04:45
James___
★★★★★
(2833)
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


.


Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!



I guess that does hide the fact that you posted a link showing that thermometers are used to measure the temperature of water when that's how they have done for who knows how long. I thought that was funnier IMHO



Sure, thermometers are used to measure temperature. However, I'm supposed to believe thermometers are not necessary because satellites can precisely measure the temp of anything. So again, why the need to take a boat to Greenland to measure the water temp 3 years later??



You're asking the wrong person. Seriously, you should be asking someone else this because you won't like my answer.
Have a question for you. When you buy a heat exchanger like a heater, air conditioner or even a heat pump, why do Btus matter?
A Btu raises the temperature of 1 lb. of water 1° F. That is 0.016 cubic feet of water. A Btu raises or lowers the temperature of 16 cubic feet of air 1° F.
Water is basically 1,000 times denser than our atmosphere. It will reflect or refract most electromagnetic waves. Why sonars ping and radios on subs use ELFs.
Radar can penetrate the ground but it might require a very high amplitude (a lot of energy in the wave) that is focused. Think of a jack hammer here. With ELFs, lots of energy but can travel great distances.
Edited on 25-11-2019 04:55
25-11-2019 05:08
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1714)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


.


Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!



I guess that does hide the fact that you posted a link showing that thermometers are used to measure the temperature of water when that's how they have done for who knows how long. I thought that was funnier IMHO



Sure, thermometers are used to measure temperature. However, I'm supposed to believe thermometers are not necessary because satellites can precisely measure the temp of anything. So again, why the need to take a boat to Greenland to measure the water temp 3 years later??



You're asking the wrong person. Seriously, you should be asking someone else this because you won't like my answer.
Have a question for you. When you buy a heat exchanger like a heater, air conditioner or even a heat pump, why do Btus matter?
A Btu raises the temperature of 1 lb. of water 1° F. That is 0.016 cubic feet of water. A Btu raises or lowers the temperature of 16 cubic feet of air 1° F.
Water is basically 1,000 times denser than our atmosphere. It will reflect or refract most electromagnetic waves. Why sonars ping and radios on subs use ELFs.
Radar can penetrate the ground but it might require a very high amplitude (a lot of energy in the wave) that is focused. Think of a jack hammer here. With ELFs, lots of energy but can travel great distances.


Have another random beer and stay off the interweb till you sober up.


gasguzzler, calling the jet stream the "Norwegian jet stream" is a bigoted statement. -James-
25-11-2019 05:58
James___
★★★★★
(2833)
@gasguzzler, it's the internet. You must be talking about yourself. I'll take it easy on you. Some scientists actually use Narwhals to monitor temperature and other things.
I think we need to better monitor water temperature in the Arctic. How hot spots can be found. The link is to an article about how Narwhals are used.
What few people know is that until around 1920 they were found around the southern end of Greenland. When those waters warmed, most migrated to the Hudson Bay. They prefer cold Arctic waters.

https://www.nature.com/news/2010/101028/full/news.2010.569.html
25-11-2019 15:53
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7047)
GasGuzzler wrote:Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!

I had my hearty laugh when I first read it. Don't think that I made that up. That's known as the "Stadium Wave Theory of Climate Change" and is the modern Climate Science response to the question of the Global Warming "Hiatus" I put it in The MANUAL. I couldn't help but think of it when James__ started rambling on. At a certain point you just have to say "Oh yeah, I totally agree!"

From The MANUAL:

Stadium Wave: noun
A Global Warming edict, written in an unintelligible tongue speculated to be a Latin derivative, issued by Oracle from the Climate Change "Holy Sea" known as the IPCC, prophesying and explaining the current multi-decade hiaitus of Global Warming mythology.

The Stadium Wave Prophecy:

"A hypothesized low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere through a network of synchronized climate indices was identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis of an expanded database, we further investigate this hypothesized signal to elucidate propagation dynamics. The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, emerges as a strong contender for generating and sustaining propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere."

Note on the Stadium Wave Prophesy: Scientists are already working on translating this beautiful and mysterious language.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 25-11-2019 15:55
17-01-2020 03:23
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(189)
I just can not understand one thing. Scientists are saying that glaciers are decreasing. They say that almost all glaciers on earth are losing mass now. Only three are not. What causes it?
17-01-2020 03:34
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3259)
Xadoman wrote:
I just can not understand one thing. Scientists are saying that glaciers are decreasing. They say that almost all glaciers on earth are losing mass now. Only three are not. What causes it?
Every year ice melts in the summer and reforms in the winter. If less forms in the winter than melted in the summer that's a decrease in ice.


Edited on 17-01-2020 03:34
17-01-2020 04:37
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7047)
Xadoman wrote: Scientists are saying that [some] glaciers are decreasing.

Scientists are also saying that some glaciers are growing and some are forming.

Scientists have no data indicating that the earth's surface ice mass is somehow changing either way.

Xadoman wrote: They say that almost all glaciers on earth are losing mass now. Only three are not.

Those aren't scientists saying this. Those are political activists preaching the Global Warming faith.

Only mindless, gullible warmizombies fall for that shtick.

Question: Did you fall for that schtick?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-01-2020 04:49
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3259)
IBdaMann wrote:
Scientists are also saying ....
This is where a normal post would include a citation/link.
17-01-2020 05:50
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7047)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Scientists are also saying ....
This is where a normal post would include a citation/link.


Too funny! You didn't similarly insist Xadoman provide you any citations, and I just parrotted his words. I've known for some time that you are never serious when you post.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-01-2020 05:59
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3259)
IBdaMann wrote:...You didn't similarly insist Xadoman provide you any citations,...
I didn't have to I found it myself easily online. I was already familiar with this.

You seem to be making stuff up. You're well aware what you said was a contrarian "you've heard wrong!" counter argument. So yeah a poster interested in actually presenting facts would include citations.
Edited on 17-01-2020 06:02
17-01-2020 06:04
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7047)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...You didn't similarly insist Xadoman provide you any citations,...
I didn't have to I found it myself easily online. .

Oh, and suddenly you became incompetent at searching.

I get it. It happens even to the best of us.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-01-2020 06:10
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3259)
IBdaMann wrote:...suddenly you became incompetent at searching...
I'm not searching to support your argument. I presented evidence you're wrong instead.

That's actually the same objective you see. "You are wrong" answers the question "Are you right about that?".
17-01-2020 06:16
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7047)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...suddenly you became incompetent at searching...
I'm not searching to support your argument. I presented evidence you're wrong instead.

You haven't presented anything beyond gibberish. You babble. You preach your WACKY religion. I recall you being correct about something only one time since you have been posting on this board, and it was such a minor point it wasn't worth remembering.

If you are ever correct about something in the future I'll write it down.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-01-2020 06:30
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3259)
IBdaMann wrote:...I'll write it down.
OK
17-01-2020 12:30
MarcusRProfile picture★☆☆☆☆
(111)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...I'll write it down.
OK


It is one thing to write something down, but another thing to understand the context of what you are writing.

I explained the origin of he SB law, and why that consequently did not in any way contradict the greenhouse effect due to how EM propagates, is absorbed, emitted, scarttered and so forth in the atmosphere.

But I guess certain laws of physics can be applied however you would like without knowing if that specific law has any bearing at all on the subject or if it os applicable. A bit like saying a car can not have a green color because its cars kinetic energy is proportional to its velocity.
17-01-2020 16:28
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7047)
MarcusR wrote: I explained the origin of he SB law, and why that consequently did not in any way contradict the greenhouse effect due to how EM propagates, is absorbed, emitted, scarttered and so forth in the atmosphere.

That's because you were violating thermodynamics at that moment in time, not Stefan-Boltzmann.

You pivot to violating Stefan-Boltzmann whenever someone notices you are violating thermodynamics. You essentially alternate back and forth between violations as a way of saying "See! You can't catch me!"

This is why you won't state any unambiguous definition of Greenhouse Effect; you can't define it without violating at least one of them.

MarcusR wrote: But I guess certain laws of physics can be applied however you would like without knowing if that specific law has any bearing at all on the subject or if it os applicable.

You are unfortunately relegated to "guessing" and "pretending" when you are scientifically illiterate. This is why Global Warming recruiters target the scientifically illiterate and the mathematically incompetent because they can be easily duped.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-01-2020 19:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12779)
MarcusR wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...I'll write it down.
OK


It is one thing to write something down, but another thing to understand the context of what you are writing.

I explained the origin of he SB law, and why that consequently did not in any way contradict the greenhouse effect due to how EM propagates, is absorbed, emitted, scarttered and so forth in the atmosphere.

But I guess certain laws of physics can be applied however you would like without knowing if that specific law has any bearing at all on the subject or if it os applicable. A bit like saying a car can not have a green color because its cars kinetic energy is proportional to its velocity.


No, you DENIED the Stefan-Boltzmann law. You tried to add a frequency term (which it doesn't have), and you tried to eliminate the emissivity term (which it does). You also tried to impose an inversion on the radiance temperature relationship (which it doesn't have).

In other words, you tried to write a completely different equation and call it the Stefan-Boltzmann law.


The Parrot Killer
17-01-2020 19:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12779)
IBdaMann wrote:
MarcusR wrote: I explained the origin of he SB law, and why that consequently did not in any way contradict the greenhouse effect due to how EM propagates, is absorbed, emitted, scarttered and so forth in the atmosphere.

That's because you were violating thermodynamics at that moment in time, not Stefan-Boltzmann.

You pivot to violating Stefan-Boltzmann whenever someone notices you are violating thermodynamics. You essentially alternate back and forth between violations as a way of saying "See! You can't catch me!"

This is why you won't state any unambiguous definition of Greenhouse Effect; you can't define it without violating at least one of them.

MarcusR wrote: But I guess certain laws of physics can be applied however you would like without knowing if that specific law has any bearing at all on the subject or if it os applicable.

You are unfortunately relegated to "guessing" and "pretending" when you are scientifically illiterate. This is why Global Warming recruiters target the scientifically illiterate and the mathematically incompetent because they can be easily duped.


.


He was violating both.


The Parrot Killer
17-01-2020 20:20
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(189)
I am pretty sure we see Blue Ocean Event soon. We have a Blue Lake Event now happening here in Estonia. Never in my lifetime the winter has been so warm. A couple of weeks ago in Norwey the temperature was+19 degrees celcius! I just can not understand what is happening now.
17-01-2020 20:31
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7047)
Xadoman wrote:
I am pretty sure we see Blue Ocean Event soon. We have a Blue Lake Event now happening here in Estonia. Never in my lifetime the winter has been so warm. A couple of weeks ago in Norwey the temperature was+19 degrees celcius! I just can not understand what is happening now.

Question: Are record warm temperatures proof of Global Warming?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-01-2020 02:33
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3259)
MarcusR wrote:...like saying a car can not have a green color because its cars kinetic energy is proportional to its velocity.
Ha ha, yes nice. I love the monty python bit where it's concluded that a woman is a witch because witches are made of wood, wood floats, so do geese, and so because she is the same weight as a goose she is a witch. The dumbest stupid is logical.

Xadoman wrote:I just can not understand what is happening now.
I wonder if changes in ice are more dramatic than changes in the mean temp. I would think if you're at the frontier of how far south ice remains it would seem pretty dramatic.
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