What exactly is the evidence that AGW is happening or

HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?

spot wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?

You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.

GasGuzzler wrote:

spot wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?

You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.

I read what you write. I read what ITN and IBdaMann write.

No way in hell all 3 are correct. How do I know the "stuff" I read is correct?

spot wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

spot wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?

You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.

I read what you write. I read what ITN and IBdaMann write.

No way in hell all 3 are correct. How do I know the "stuff" I read is correct?

I was thinking more in the lines of reading books and websites written by people who study glaciers rather then us three. Finding out how glaciers react to climate change is interesting and there are many resources on the subject.

GasGuzzler wrote:

spot wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

spot wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?

You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.

I read what you write. I read what ITN and IBdaMann write.

No way in hell all 3 are correct. How do I know the "stuff" I read is correct?

I was thinking more in the lines of reading books and websites written by people who study glaciers rather then us three. Finding out how glaciers react to climate change is interesting and there are many resources on the subject.

So I took your suggestion and did a little reading on glaciers. I have stumbled across the most amazing quote I think I ever seen. Here's the credits and a link.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145185/major-greenland-glacier-is-growing

NASA Earth Observatory images by Joshua Stevens, using Landsat data from the U.S. Geological Survey, and data courtesy of Josh Willis/NASA JPL and the Oceans Melting Greenland (OMG) Program. Story by Kathryn Hansen.

The quote...

"Even three years after the cold water arrived, the glacier is still reacting," Willis said. "I'm really excited to go back this August and measure the temperature again. Is it still cold? Or has it warmed back up?"

Whoa! Back the truck up! Why on Earth would someone have to measure that water temperature with a thermometer??

James___ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

spot wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

spot wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:
But, how can you tell how much the glacier moved?

You read stuff, That's how you learn stuff.

I read what you write. I read what ITN and IBdaMann write.

No way in hell all 3 are correct. How do I know the "stuff" I read is correct?

I was thinking more in the lines of reading books and websites written by people who study glaciers rather then us three. Finding out how glaciers react to climate change is interesting and there are many resources on the subject.

So I took your suggestion and did a little reading on glaciers. I have stumbled across the most amazing quote I think I ever seen. Here's the credits and a link.

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145185/major-greenland-glacier-is-growing

NASA Earth Observatory images by Joshua Stevens, using Landsat data from the U.S. Geological Survey, and data courtesy of Josh Willis/NASA JPL and the Oceans Melting Greenland (OMG) Program. Story by Kathryn Hansen.

The quote...

"Even three years after the cold water arrived, the glacier is still reacting," Willis said. "I'm really excited to go back this August and measure the temperature again. Is it still cold? Or has it warmed back up?"

Whoa! Back the truck up! Why on Earth would someone have to measure that water temperature with a thermometer??

You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.
Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?
The area that you are talking about has warmed or cooled 10 years after a magnitude 6.0 earthquake or greater. Which causation are you suggesting happened?

GasGuzzler wrote:

None of that James. Method of measurement is all I'm talking about.

James___ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

None of that James. Method of measurement is all I'm talking about.

What type of thermometer? I doubt that they're dropping a mercury type thermometer into the water.

An electronic thermometer works by putting a voltage across its metal probe and measuring how much current flows through it. If you put the probe in boiling water, the water's heat makes electricity flow through the probe less easily so the resistance goes up by a precisely measurable amount.

Same thing satellite observations are based on. So not sure what point your trying to make. As far as satellites goes, they can be verified. If not then like anything else, how would you know if it's properly calibrated?

James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


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GasGuzzler wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


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Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!

James___ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


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Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!

I guess that does hide the fact that you posted a link showing that thermometers are used to measure the temperature of water when that's how they have done for who knows how long. I thought that was funnier IMHO

GasGuzzler wrote:

James___ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


.

Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!

I guess that does hide the fact that you posted a link showing that thermometers are used to measure the temperature of water when that's how they have done for who knows how long. I thought that was funnier IMHO

Sure, thermometers are used to measure temperature. However, I'm supposed to believe thermometers are not necessary because satellites can precisely measure the temp of anything. So again, why the need to take a boat to Greenland to measure the water temp 3 years later??

James___ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James___ wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: You don't know where that water comes from, do you? There is a recirculation gyre that is a flow from the Greenland Sea which is the southern recirculation gyre of the Gulf Stream.

Absolutely! You are going to be way off if you're not accounting for the low-frequency climate signal propagating across the Northern Hemisphere. You have to closely monitor the network of synchronized climate indices identified in previous analyses of instrumental and proxy data. The tempo of signal propagation is rationalized in terms of the multidecadal component of Atlantic Ocean variability – the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. Through multivariate statistical analysis you can better investigate this signal to elucidate propagation dynamics.

I'm glad you brought that up.

James___ wrote: Are you suggesting that less warm water from the Gulf Stream is flowing above the Labrador Current? Maybe during those years it was warmer in France and England?

You are so totally spot-on! The Eurasian Arctic Shelf-Sea Region, where sea ice is uniquely exposed to open ocean in the Northern Hemisphere, generates and sustains propagation of the hemispheric signal. Ocean-ice-atmosphere coupling spawns a sequence of positive and negative feedbacks that convey persistence and quasi-oscillatory features to the signal. Further stabilizing the system are anomalies of co-varying Pacific-centered atmospheric circulations. Indirectly related to dynamics in the Eurasian Arctic, these anomalies appear to negatively feed back onto the Atlantic's freshwater balance. Earth's rotational rate and other proxies encode traces of this signal as it makes its way across the Northern Hemisphere.

I'm glad you brought that up.


.

Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!

I guess that does hide the fact that you posted a link showing that thermometers are used to measure the temperature of water when that's how they have done for who knows how long. I thought that was funnier IMHO

Sure, thermometers are used to measure temperature. However, I'm supposed to believe thermometers are not necessary because satellites can precisely measure the temp of anything. So again, why the need to take a boat to Greenland to measure the water temp 3 years later??

You're asking the wrong person. Seriously, you should be asking someone else this because you won't like my answer.
Have a question for you. When you buy a heat exchanger like a heater, air conditioner or even a heat pump, why do Btus matter?
A Btu raises the temperature of 1 lb. of water 1° F. That is 0.016 cubic feet of water. A Btu raises or lowers the temperature of 16 cubic feet of air 1° F.
Water is basically 1,000 times denser than our atmosphere. It will reflect or refract most electromagnetic waves. Why sonars ping and radios on subs use ELFs.
Radar can penetrate the ground but it might require a very high amplitude (a lot of energy in the wave) that is focused. Think of a jack hammer here. With ELFs, lots of energy but can travel great distances.

GasGuzzler wrote:Literally hurting from laughing so hard! THAT was awesome!!

Xadoman wrote:
I just can not understand one thing. Scientists are saying that glaciers are decreasing. They say that almost all glaciers on earth are losing mass now. Only three are not. What causes it?

Xadoman wrote: Scientists are saying that [some] glaciers are decreasing.

Xadoman wrote: They say that almost all glaciers on earth are losing mass now. Only three are not.

IBdaMann wrote:
Scientists are also saying ....

tmiddles wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:
Scientists are also saying ....

This is where a normal post would include a citation/link.

IBdaMann wrote:...You didn't similarly insist Xadoman provide you any citations,...

tmiddles wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:...You didn't similarly insist Xadoman provide you any citations,...

I didn't have to I found it myself easily online. .

IBdaMann wrote:...suddenly you became incompetent at searching...

tmiddles wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:...suddenly you became incompetent at searching...

I'm not searching to support your argument. I presented evidence you're wrong instead.

IBdaMann wrote:...I'll write it down.

tmiddles wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:...I'll write it down.

OK

MarcusR wrote: I explained the origin of he SB law, and why that consequently did not in any way contradict the greenhouse effect due to how EM propagates, is absorbed, emitted, scarttered and so forth in the atmosphere.

MarcusR wrote: But I guess certain laws of physics can be applied however you would like without knowing if that specific law has any bearing at all on the subject or if it os applicable.

MarcusR wrote:

tmiddles wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:...I'll write it down.

OK

It is one thing to write something down, but another thing to understand the context of what you are writing.

I explained the origin of he SB law, and why that consequently did not in any way contradict the greenhouse effect due to how EM propagates, is absorbed, emitted, scarttered and so forth in the atmosphere.

But I guess certain laws of physics can be applied however you would like without knowing if that specific law has any bearing at all on the subject or if it os applicable. A bit like saying a car can not have a green color because its cars kinetic energy is proportional to its velocity.

IBdaMann wrote:

MarcusR wrote: I explained the origin of he SB law, and why that consequently did not in any way contradict the greenhouse effect due to how EM propagates, is absorbed, emitted, scarttered and so forth in the atmosphere.

That's because you were violating thermodynamics at that moment in time, not Stefan-Boltzmann.

You pivot to violating Stefan-Boltzmann whenever someone notices you are violating thermodynamics. You essentially alternate back and forth between violations as a way of saying "See! You can't catch me!"

This is why you won't state any unambiguous definition of Greenhouse Effect; you can't define it without violating at least one of them.

MarcusR wrote: But I guess certain laws of physics can be applied however you would like without knowing if that specific law has any bearing at all on the subject or if it os applicable.

You are unfortunately relegated to "guessing" and "pretending" when you are scientifically illiterate. This is why Global Warming recruiters target the scientifically illiterate and the mathematically incompetent because they can be easily duped.


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Xadoman wrote:
I am pretty sure we see Blue Ocean Event soon. We have a Blue Lake Event now happening here in Estonia. Never in my lifetime the winter has been so warm. A couple of weeks ago in Norwey the temperature was+19 degrees celcius! I just can not understand what is happening now.

MarcusR wrote:...like saying a car can not have a green color because its cars kinetic energy is proportional to its velocity.

Xadoman wrote:I just can not understand what is happening now.