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Venus is hotter than Mercury?!?

Climate-Debate.com > Discussion Forum > Climate debate in general > Venus is hotter than Mercury?!? > Page 25


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06-07-2020 01:42
duncan61
★★★★★
(2021)		 whats venus
06-07-2020 08:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21773)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted IAW tmiddles ordinance #1...


No argument presented. RQAA. Denial of science.

The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
06-07-2020 08:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21773)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
"if the temperature goes [up] for the earth then the earth's radiance into space must go up."
And that would also be true for Venus correct?


RQAA.

The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
06-07-2020 18:24
James___
★★★★★
(5513)
duncan61 wrote:
whats venus



This is Venus https://d1o50x50snmhul.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/01401904.jpg and as tmiddles said, the more calories it consumes, the more heat it can generate.
The link is in case the image doesn't load.
Attached image:

06-07-2020 19:26
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)		 Venus fly traps!!! I love those things... They're damn cool.
06-07-2020 23:11
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
"if the temperature goes [up] for the earth then the earth's radiance into space must go up."
And that would also be true for Venus correct?


That right IBD? You're claiming that:
If the temperature of the atmosphere of Venus goes up then Venus's radiance into space must go up.
06-07-2020 23:22
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14500)
tmiddles wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
"if the temperature goes [up] for the earth then the earth's radiance into space must go up."
And that would also be true for Venus correct?


That right IBD? You're claiming that:
If the temperature of the atmosphere of Venus goes up then Venus's radiance into space must go up.


You need to take a step back. Before we can move forward I need you to answer the following:

1) What are the unambiguous definitions of Global Warming, Climate Change and Greenhouse Effect that neither violate nor deny physics? [Status: Unanswered]
2) Why should any rational adult believe in either Global Warming, Climate Change or Greenhouse Effect? [Status: Unanswered]
3) How can I unambiguously demonstrate to my children thermal energy flowing from cooler to warmer? [Status: Unanswered]
4) How can I know the temperature of a large, unspecified volume, e.g. Denver, to within, say, 10degF with only one temperature measurement, e.g. the Denver airport? [Status: Unanswered]
5) What are the unambiguous definitions of "race," "negro," "black people," "white people," "brown people," "white supremacy," "white nationalsim," "white nationalist," "white supremacist," "black supremacist" and "racist"? [Status: Unanswered]
6) Is there an official list of races? [Status: Unanswered]
- 6a) How do I determine my own race or that of my children? [Status: Unanswered]
7) Why should any rational adult believe that there is a problem of racism in the United States? [Status: Unanswered]
8) Why should law abiding citizens be rendered defenseless before rampant violent crime? [Status: Unanswered]
9) Where in the 1st Amendment is "hate" prohibited such that, if shown, a prosecutor can throw someone in jail for having had that emotion/thought? [Status: Unanswered]
10) Why do you claim that an atmosphere only makes a planet's or moon's solid surface hotter since you are fully aware that no place at the bottom of earth's atmosphere ever reaches anywhere close to the daytime temperatures of the moon's atmosphereless solid surface? [Status: Unanswered]
11) If we were to discover that Lisa Gherardini was actually a shitty person, would that justify Black Lives Matter storming the Louvre to destroy the Mona Lisa? [Status: Unanswered]
12) Why should we destroy artifacts and relics pertaining to history that we never want to forget or repeat? [Status: Unanswered]
13) The Aztecs committed genocide of many other tribes and practiced human sacrifice; should their artwork and artifacts be destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
14) Why would you or anyone pretend to be a judge of what history is to be revised or destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
15) In what substantive/meaningful way do the platforms of Black Lives Matter, ANTIFA, The National Organization of Women, the DNC, Communist Party USA and Socialist Party USA ... differ? [Status: Unanswered]

... and you might as well read my response to your question because you obviously missed it ... or you ignored it, one of the two.

.

I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit

A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
06-07-2020 23:35
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
"if the temperature goes [up] for the earth then the earth's radiance into space must go up."
And that would also be true for Venus correct?


That right IBD? You're claiming that:
If the temperature of the atmosphere of Venus goes up then Venus's radiance into space must go up.
You need to take a step back. Before we can move forward I need you to answer the following:...Why should we destroy artifacts...
Why is that? Clearly it has nothing to do with this topic.
Edited on 06-07-2020 23:36
06-07-2020 23:51
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14500)
tmiddles wrote: Why is that? Clearly it has nothing to do with this topic.

You didn't read through the entire list.


1) What are the unambiguous definitions of Global Warming, Climate Change and Greenhouse Effect that neither violate nor deny physics? [Status: Unanswered]
2) Why should any rational adult believe in either Global Warming, Climate Change or Greenhouse Effect? [Status: Unanswered]
3) How can I unambiguously demonstrate to my children thermal energy flowing from cooler to warmer? [Status: Unanswered]
4) How can I know the temperature of a large, unspecified volume, e.g. Denver, to within, say, 10degF with only one temperature measurement, e.g. the Denver airport? [Status: Unanswered]
5) What are the unambiguous definitions of "race," "negro," "black people," "white people," "brown people," "white supremacy," "white nationalsim," "white nationalist," "white supremacist," "black supremacist" and "racist"? [Status: Unanswered]
6) Is there an official list of races? [Status: Unanswered]
- 6a) How do I determine my own race or that of my children? [Status: Unanswered]
7) Why should any rational adult believe that there is a problem of racism in the United States? [Status: Unanswered]
8) Why should law abiding citizens be rendered defenseless before rampant violent crime? [Status: Unanswered]
9) Where in the 1st Amendment is "hate" prohibited such that, if shown, a prosecutor can throw someone in jail for having had that emotion/thought? [Status: Unanswered]
10) Why do you claim that an atmosphere only makes a planet's or moon's solid surface hotter since you are fully aware that no place at the bottom of earth's atmosphere ever reaches anywhere close to the daytime temperatures of the moon's atmosphereless solid surface? [Status: Unanswered]
11) If we were to discover that Lisa Gherardini was actually a shitty person, would that justify Black Lives Matter storming the Louvre to destroy the Mona Lisa? [Status: Unanswered]
12) Why should we destroy artifacts and relics pertaining to history that we never want to forget or repeat? [Status: Unanswered]
13) The Aztecs committed genocide of many other tribes and practiced human sacrifice; should their artwork and artifacts be destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
14) Why would you or anyone pretend to be a judge of what history is to be revised or destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
15) In what substantive/meaningful way do the platforms of Black Lives Matter, ANTIFA, The National Organization of Women, the DNC, Communist Party USA and Socialist Party USA ... differ? [Status: Unanswered]



.

I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit

A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
06-07-2020 23:59
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: Why is that? Clearly it has nothing to do with this topic.

You didn't read through the entire list....
I will stay on topic even if you won't. So? Are you going to respond or is this your excuse not to?
07-07-2020 00:26
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: Why is that? Clearly it has nothing to do with this topic.

You didn't read through the entire list....
I will stay on topic even if you won't. So? Are you going to respond or is this your excuse not to?

Evasion. Answer the questions listed above, whether here or within the separate thread that was made for you and that you are purposely avoiding...
07-07-2020 00:42
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
gfm7175 wrote:
Evasion....
Of this topic? How is that? What question is being "evaded"?
07-07-2020 00:47
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
Evasion....
Of this topic? How is that? What question is being "evaded"?

You didn't read through the entire list.


1) What are the unambiguous definitions of Global Warming, Climate Change and Greenhouse Effect that neither violate nor deny physics? [Status: Unanswered]
2) Why should any rational adult believe in either Global Warming, Climate Change or Greenhouse Effect? [Status: Unanswered]
3) How can I unambiguously demonstrate to my children thermal energy flowing from cooler to warmer? [Status: Unanswered]
4) How can I know the temperature of a large, unspecified volume, e.g. Denver, to within, say, 10degF with only one temperature measurement, e.g. the Denver airport? [Status: Unanswered]
5) What are the unambiguous definitions of "race," "negro," "black people," "white people," "brown people," "white supremacy," "white nationalsim," "white nationalist," "white supremacist," "black supremacist" and "racist"? [Status: Unanswered]
6) Is there an official list of races? [Status: Unanswered]
- 6a) How do I determine my own race or that of my children? [Status: Unanswered]
7) Why should any rational adult believe that there is a problem of racism in the United States? [Status: Unanswered]
8) Why should law abiding citizens be rendered defenseless before rampant violent crime? [Status: Unanswered]
9) Where in the 1st Amendment is "hate" prohibited such that, if shown, a prosecutor can throw someone in jail for having had that emotion/thought? [Status: Unanswered]
10) Why do you claim that an atmosphere only makes a planet's or moon's solid surface hotter since you are fully aware that no place at the bottom of earth's atmosphere ever reaches anywhere close to the daytime temperatures of the moon's atmosphereless solid surface? [Status: Unanswered]
11) If we were to discover that Lisa Gherardini was actually a shitty person, would that justify Black Lives Matter storming the Louvre to destroy the Mona Lisa? [Status: Unanswered]
12) Why should we destroy artifacts and relics pertaining to history that we never want to forget or repeat? [Status: Unanswered]
13) The Aztecs committed genocide of many other tribes and practiced human sacrifice; should their artwork and artifacts be destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
14) Why would you or anyone pretend to be a judge of what history is to be revised or destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
15) In what substantive/meaningful way do the platforms of Black Lives Matter, ANTIFA, The National Organization of Women, the DNC, Communist Party USA and Socialist Party USA ... differ? [Status: Unanswered]

Answer the questions...
07-07-2020 01:06
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
gfm7175 wrote:
...Global Warming,..."black supremacist"...Aztecs...Socialist Party...? [Status: Unanswered]
Answer the questions...
If you have something on topic let's hear it.

Still waiting on IBD to follow up on his own statement:
tmiddles wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
"if the temperature goes [up] for the earth then the earth's radiance into space must go up."
And that would also be true for Venus correct?


That right IBD? You're claiming that:
If the temperature of the atmosphere of Venus goes up then Venus's radiance into space must go up.
07-07-2020 03:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21773)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
...Global Warming,..."black supremacist"...Aztecs...Socialist Party...? [Status: Unanswered]
Answer the questions...
If you have something on topic let's hear it.


This is the topic. Answer the questions put to you:

1) What are the unambiguous definitions of Global Warming, Climate
Change and Greenhouse Effect that neither violate nor deny physics?
[Status: Unanswered]
2) Why should any rational adult believe in either Global Warming,
Climate Change or Greenhouse Effect? [Status: Unanswered]
3) How can I unambiguously demonstrate to my children thermal energy
flowing from cooler to warmer? [Status: Unanswered]
4) How can I know the temperature of a large, unspecified volume,
e.g. Denver, to within, say, 10degF with only one temperature
measurement, e.g. the Denver airport? [Status: Unanswered]
5) What are the unambiguous definitions of "race," "negro," "black
people," "white people," "brown people," "white supremacy," "white
nationalsim," "white nationalist," "white supremacist," "black
supremacist" and "racist"? [Status: Unanswered]
6) Is there an official list of races? [Status: Unanswered]
- 6a) How do I determine my own race or that of my children? [Status: Unanswered]
7) Why should any rational adult believe that there is a problem of
racism in the United States? [Status: Unanswered]
8) Why should law abiding citizens be rendered defenseless before
rampant violent crime? [Status: Unanswered]
9) Where in the 1st Amendment is "hate" prohibited such that, if
shown, a prosecutor can throw someone in jail for having had that
emotion/thought? [Status: Unanswered]
10) Why do you claim that an atmosphere only makes a planet's or
moon's solid surface hotter since you are fully aware that no place at
the bottom of earth's atmosphere ever reaches anywhere close to the
daytime temperatures of the moon's atmosphereless solid surface?
[Status: Unanswered]
11) If we were to discover that Lisa Gherardini was actually a shitty
person, would that justify Black Lives Matter storming the Louvre to
destroy the Mona Lisa? [Status: Unanswered]
12) Why should we destroy artifacts and relics pertaining to history
that we never want to forget or repeat? [Status: Unanswered]
13) The Aztecs committed genocide of many other tribes and practiced
human sacrifice; should their artwork and artifacts be destroyed?
[Status: Unanswered]
14) Why would you or anyone pretend to be a judge of what history is
to be revised or destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
15) In what substantive/meaningful way do the platforms of Black Lives
Matter, ANTIFA, The National Organization of Women, the DNC, Communist
Party USA and Socialist Party USA ... differ? [Status: Unanswered]

The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-07-2020 03:22
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
...Global Warming,..."black supremacist"...Aztecs...Socialist Party...? [Status: Unanswered]
Answer the questions...
If you have something on topic let's hear it.

This is the topic...."brown people," "white supremacy,"...
No it's not. The topic is the thermodynamics of Venus.
07-07-2020 03:52
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14500)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
...Global Warming,..."black supremacist"...Aztecs...Socialist Party...? [Status: Unanswered]
Answer the questions...
If you have something on topic let's hear it.

This is the topic...."brown people," "white supremacy,"...
No it's not. The topic is the thermodynamics of Venus.


Whatever angle you are trying to preach, we've reached a barrier preventing any further discussion. That barrier is comprised of the questions that have been identified.

Why don't we table the other wheel-spinning for the moment and focus on the questions that need to be answered in order to continue listening to your preaching? Let's make tackling this list the priority.


1) What are the unambiguous definitions of Global Warming, Climate Change and Greenhouse Effect that neither violate nor deny physics? [Status: Unanswered]
2) Why should any rational adult believe in either Global Warming, Climate Change or Greenhouse Effect? [Status: Unanswered]
3) How can I unambiguously demonstrate to my children thermal energy flowing from cooler to warmer? [Status: Unanswered]
4) How can I know the temperature of a large, unspecified volume, e.g. Denver, to within, say, 10degF with only one temperature measurement, e.g. the Denver airport? [Status: Unanswered]
5) What are the unambiguous definitions of "race," "negro," "black people," "white people," "brown people," "white supremacy," "white nationalsim," "white nationalist," "white supremacist," "black supremacist" and "racist"? [Status: Unanswered]
6) Is there an official list of races? [Status: Unanswered]
- 6a) How do I determine my own race or that of my children? [Status: Unanswered]
7) Why should any rational adult believe that there is a problem of racism in the United States? [Status: Unanswered]
8) Why should law abiding citizens be rendered defenseless before rampant violent crime? [Status: Unanswered]
9) Where in the 1st Amendment is "hate" prohibited such that, if shown, a prosecutor can throw someone in jail for having had that emotion/thought? [Status: Unanswered]
10) Why do you claim that an atmosphere only makes a planet's or moon's solid surface hotter since you are fully aware that no place at the bottom of earth's atmosphere ever reaches anywhere close to the daytime temperatures of the moon's atmosphereless solid surface? [Status: Unanswered]
11) If we were to discover that Lisa Gherardini was actually a shitty person, would that justify Black Lives Matter storming the Louvre to destroy the Mona Lisa? [Status: Unanswered]
12) Why should we destroy artifacts and relics pertaining to history that we never want to forget or repeat? [Status: Unanswered]
13) The Aztecs committed genocide of many other tribes and practiced human sacrifice; should their artwork and artifacts be destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
14) Why would you or anyone pretend to be a judge of what history is to be revised or destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
15) In what substantive/meaningful way do the platforms of Black Lives Matter, ANTIFA, The National Organization of Women, the DNC, Communist Party USA and Socialist Party USA ... differ? [Status: Unanswered]

.

I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit

A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-07-2020 04:16
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
IBdaMann wrote:
Whatever angle you are trying to preach, we've reached a barrier preventing any further discussion.
IBD I can't force you to discuss anything that's clear. I will not be indulging you here. You are currently abusing the board and you should stop.

I do not regard your last post as being relevant to this topic and I won't be responding to the scattered assortment of questions it contains.

You have chosen not to respond to this topic at this time. That's your choice.
07-07-2020 04:19
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14500)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Whatever angle you are trying to preach, we've reached a barrier preventing any further discussion.
IBD I can't force you to discuss anything that's clear. I will not be indulging you here. You are currently abusing the board and you should stop.

I do not regard your last post as being relevant to this topic and I won't be responding to the scattered assortment of questions it contains.

You have chosen not to respond to this topic at this time. That's your choice.

Let me know when something changes.

.

I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit

A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-07-2020 04:57
James___
★★★★★
(5513)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Whatever angle you are trying to preach, we've reached a barrier preventing any further discussion.
IBD I can't force you to discuss anything that's clear. I will not be indulging you here. You are currently abusing the board and you should stop.

I do not regard your last post as being relevant to this topic and I won't be responding to the scattered assortment of questions it contains.

You have chosen not to respond to this topic at this time. That's your choice.



This is where I could have fun with math. But I'm no fun at parties undress we're in Texas. Then we could let a little something, something hang out. And how could we "a dress" that situation? Could we "cover up" the situation to "a dress" your problems?
Typical American B.S. You have an "a dress". That's where to find what you want, right? At the right "a dress"? I'm the same way and am looking for her.
Edited on 07-07-2020 04:58
07-07-2020 05:03
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
IBdaMann wrote:
Let me know when something changes.
.
you are always free to stop the debate with me IBD, ITN did long ago.
We were in the middle of discussing:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
"if the temperature goes [up] for the earth then the earth's radiance into space must go up."
And that would also be true for Venus correct?


I assume (since you stopped addressing this I can only assume) that you are claiming that there must be a direct correlation between ground level temps and the radiance into space a planet emitts. Venus prove that this is false.

The error you've made is confusing the ground level, and the interior temperature of an object, with it's emitting surface.

In short: a ground level temp radiating far more than a planet's radiance to space does not violate planck's law or Stefan-Boltzmann because the ground level is not the whole emitting surface of the planet. The emitting surface is primarily higher in the atmosphere.
Edited on 07-07-2020 05:11
07-07-2020 06:12
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14500)
James___ wrote: I'm the same way and am looking for her.

I hope by "her" you mean "them" because "they" are looking for you, and they won't take "I don't know where he is" for an answer.







They want you James__, they want you. They need you. I can't hold them off forever.

.

I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit

A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-07-2020 06:13
James___
★★★★★
(5513)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Let me know when something changes.
.
you are always free to stop the debate with me IBD, ITN did long ago.
We were in the middle of discussing:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
"if the temperature goes [up] for the earth then the earth's radiance into space must go up."
And that would also be true for Venus correct?


I assume (since you stopped addressing this I can only assume) that you are claiming that there must be a direct correlation between ground level temps and the radiance into space a planet emitts. Venus prove that this is false.

The error you've made is confusing the ground level, and the interior temperature of an object, with it's emitting surface.

In short: a ground level temp radiating far more than a planet's radiance to space does not violate planck's law or Stefan-Boltzmann because the ground level is not the whole emitting surface of the planet. The emitting surface is primarily higher in the atmosphere.


NASA hasn't figured out what you claim to know. Either show it or shut the fück up. It gets old. It seems no one in this forum understands basic physics. This means that ya'all are stupid. Kind of makes believing in God stupid because you guys exist. Just sayin', did God create stupid?
07-07-2020 16:16
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
tmiddles wrote:
No it's not. The topic is the thermodynamics of Venus.

... and in order to have a rational discussion with you regarding "the thermodynamics of Venus", you need to first answer these questions:

1) What are the unambiguous definitions of Global Warming, Climate
Change and Greenhouse Effect that neither violate nor deny physics?
[Status: Unanswered]
2) Why should any rational adult believe in either Global Warming,
Climate Change or Greenhouse Effect? [Status: Unanswered]
3) How can I unambiguously demonstrate to my children thermal energy
flowing from cooler to warmer? [Status: Unanswered]
4) How can I know the temperature of a large, unspecified volume,
e.g. Denver, to within, say, 10degF with only one temperature
measurement, e.g. the Denver airport? [Status: Unanswered]
5) What are the unambiguous definitions of "race," "negro," "black
people," "white people," "brown people," "white supremacy," "white
nationalsim," "white nationalist," "white supremacist," "black
supremacist" and "racist"? [Status: Unanswered]
6) Is there an official list of races? [Status: Unanswered]
- 6a) How do I determine my own race or that of my children? [Status: Unanswered]
7) Why should any rational adult believe that there is a problem of
racism in the United States? [Status: Unanswered]
8) Why should law abiding citizens be rendered defenseless before
rampant violent crime? [Status: Unanswered]
9) Where in the 1st Amendment is "hate" prohibited such that, if
shown, a prosecutor can throw someone in jail for having had that
emotion/thought? [Status: Unanswered]
10) Why do you claim that an atmosphere only makes a planet's or
moon's solid surface hotter since you are fully aware that no place at
the bottom of earth's atmosphere ever reaches anywhere close to the
daytime temperatures of the moon's atmosphereless solid surface?
[Status: Unanswered]
11) If we were to discover that Lisa Gherardini was actually a shitty
person, would that justify Black Lives Matter storming the Louvre to
destroy the Mona Lisa? [Status: Unanswered]
12) Why should we destroy artifacts and relics pertaining to history
that we never want to forget or repeat? [Status: Unanswered]
13) The Aztecs committed genocide of many other tribes and practiced
human sacrifice; should their artwork and artifacts be destroyed?
[Status: Unanswered]
14) Why would you or anyone pretend to be a judge of what history is
to be revised or destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
15) In what substantive/meaningful way do the platforms of Black Lives
Matter, ANTIFA, The National Organization of Women, the DNC, Communist
Party USA and Socialist Party USA ... differ? [Status: Unanswered]
07-07-2020 16:20
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Whatever angle you are trying to preach, we've reached a barrier preventing any further discussion.
IBD I can't force you to discuss anything that's clear. I will not be indulging you here. You are currently abusing the board and you should stop.

I do not regard your last post as being relevant to this topic and I won't be responding to the scattered assortment of questions it contains.

You have chosen not to respond to this topic at this time. That's your choice.

There is nothing meaningful to discuss until you answer the questions put forward to you. So long as you continue to evade those questions and refuse to define your terminology, your responses will continue to be summarily dismissed as a violation of the tmiddles ordinance.
07-07-2020 16:29
duncan61
★★★★★
(2021)		 Tmiddles me old mate.Are you claiming to know the radiance of Venus??
07-07-2020 16:31
keepit
★★★★★
(3104)		 IBD,
Keep those cards and letters coming.
07-07-2020 16:38
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
tmiddles wrote:
I assume (since you stopped addressing this I can only assume) that you are claiming that there must be a direct correlation between ground level temps and the radiance into space a planet emitts. Venus prove that this is false.

The error you've made is confusing the ground level, and the interior temperature of an object, with it's emitting surface.

In short: a ground level temp radiating far more than a planet's radiance to space does not violate planck's law or Stefan-Boltzmann because the ground level is not the whole emitting surface of the planet. The emitting surface is primarily higher in the atmosphere.


Violation of the tmiddles ordinance.
Evasion of the Official List of Questions.

Summarily dismissed.
07-07-2020 17:10
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14500)
duncan61 wrote: Tmiddles me old mate.Are you claiming to know the radiance of Venus??

duncan, whenever you are addressing tgoebbles, it's always a word game in which he cheats until he quits.

He does not "claim" to know the radiance of Venus, he "implies" that he knows the radiance of Venus ... through his omniscience of Venus' temperature and emissivity (what is needed to compute radiance via Stefan-Boltzmann), and you are to "infer" this without asking a bunch of questions.

He does not "claim" to be omniscient, he "implies" omniscience through his claims that Venus' temperature and emissivity are "what we know" ... which means "what he knows" because you and I obviously don't ... and you are to accept that he knows without asking a bunch of questions.

If you somehow do ask a bunch of questions that take aim at his implied omniscience, he changes the subject to the Soviet Venera program (ended in the 1980's) that sent probes to Venus, all of which were destroyed due to the intense stresses of space travel and extreme heat-pressure. Since nothing about the Venera program can somehow be revived to be scrutinized or cross-examined, you aren't supposed to question anything he claims about Venus.

Short Answer: Don't ask a bunch of questions. Just accept his omniscience on the matter.

.

I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit

A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-07-2020 17:37
duncan61
★★★★★
(2021)		 Is the radiance of Venus 42 as well??
07-07-2020 18:27
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
duncan61 wrote:
Is the radiance of Venus 42 as well??

The radiance of Venus is "what we know" (aka, "what tmiddles knows") it is. Just take his word for it!

There's good reason that the council has put the tmiddles ordinance into effect and is strictly enforcing it.
07-07-2020 18:32
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14500)
duncan61 wrote: Is the radiance of Venus 42 as well??

By some unit of measure it is.

.

I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit

A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-07-2020 20:06
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21773)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted IAW tmiddles ordinance #1...


Answer the questions put to you:

1) What are the unambiguous definitions of Global Warming, Climate
Change and Greenhouse Effect that neither violate nor deny physics?
[Status: Unanswered]
2) Why should any rational adult believe in either Global Warming,
Climate Change or Greenhouse Effect? [Status: Unanswered]
3) How can I unambiguously demonstrate to my children thermal energy
flowing from cooler to warmer? [Status: Unanswered]
4) How can I know the temperature of a large, unspecified volume,
e.g. Denver, to within, say, 10degF with only one temperature
measurement, e.g. the Denver airport? [Status: Unanswered]
5) What are the unambiguous definitions of "race," "negro," "black
people," "white people," "brown people," "white supremacy," "white
nationalsim," "white nationalist," "white supremacist," "black
supremacist" and "racist"? [Status: Unanswered]
6) Is there an official list of races? [Status: Unanswered]
- 6a) How do I determine my own race or that of my children? [Status: Unanswered]
7) Why should any rational adult believe that there is a problem of
racism in the United States? [Status: Unanswered]
8) Why should law abiding citizens be rendered defenseless before
rampant violent crime? [Status: Unanswered]
9) Where in the 1st Amendment is "hate" prohibited such that, if
shown, a prosecutor can throw someone in jail for having had that
emotion/thought? [Status: Unanswered]
10) Why do you claim that an atmosphere only makes a planet's or
moon's solid surface hotter since you are fully aware that no place at
the bottom of earth's atmosphere ever reaches anywhere close to the
daytime temperatures of the moon's atmosphereless solid surface?
[Status: Unanswered]
11) If we were to discover that Lisa Gherardini was actually a shitty
person, would that justify Black Lives Matter storming the Louvre to
destroy the Mona Lisa? [Status: Unanswered]
12) Why should we destroy artifacts and relics pertaining to history
that we never want to forget or repeat? [Status: Unanswered]
13) The Aztecs committed genocide of many other tribes and practiced
human sacrifice; should their artwork and artifacts be destroyed?
[Status: Unanswered]
14) Why would you or anyone pretend to be a judge of what history is
to be revised or destroyed? [Status: Unanswered]
15) In what substantive/meaningful way do the platforms of Black Lives
Matter, ANTIFA, The National Organization of Women, the DNC, Communist
Party USA and Socialist Party USA ... differ? [Status: Unanswered]

The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-07-2020 20:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21773)
tmiddles wrote:...deleted IAW tmiddles ordinance #1...Mantras 7...29...20b...20b4...20b5...20b5...39j...39k...30...20b...


No argument presented. RQAA. Denial of science. Invalid proofs.

Answer the questions put to you.

The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-07-2020 20:24
James___
★★★★★
(5513)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: I'm the same way and am looking for her.

I hope by "her" you mean "them" because "they" are looking for you, and they won't take "I don't know where he is" for an answer.







They want you James__, they want you. They need you. I can't hold them off forever.

.



Kind of what my projects are about. And there's a German scientist and a Rock star (Brian May of Queen who has a PhD in astrophysics) that I want to do an atmospheric chemistry experiment with. This could also lead to another explanation about why Venus is so hot.
I think this is where my service connected hearing loss has made me more of a target. And if I work with people who aren't Americans, that's because Americans only wanted to exploit me. Kind of why IMHO there are problems today. It's about people expecting to get their way.
07-07-2020 23:14
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
gfm7175 wrote:
... and in order to have a rational discussion with you regarding "the thermodynamics of Venus", you need to first answer...justify Black Lives Matter
Into the Night wrote:
Answer the questions put to you:...Aztecs committed genocide...
You have both asked me the same question again (maybe you're drinking like IBD) so I'm happy to reanswer. I won't be wasting my time or abusing the board by indulging a scattered batch of off topic questions, now or in the future. You are both abusing the board.

duncan61 wrote:
Tmiddles me old mate.Are you claiming to know the radiance of Venus??
The radiance leaving Venus is easy, just like the radiance leaving the Sun, because they both "leave" so you can measure them from Earth.

That make sense?

The radiance leaving Venus is not easy to look up online but the radiance of the Sun is. It's really the same question. YES we can pretty reliably determine the radiance emitted into space by the objects around us in the solar system.

Also note my rebuttal to IBD's misuse of Planck's Law & SB below.

IBdaMann wrote:...nothing about the Venera program can somehow be revived to be scrutinized or cross-examined, you aren't supposed to question anything he claims about Venus....
You have yet to propose a reasonable theory as to why the Venera program did not produce reliable results. I think you last said that a chart of the data was not data


Back on topic IBD:
I assume (since you stopped addressing this I can only assume) that you are claiming that there must be a direct correlation between ground level temps and the radiance into space a planet emitts. Venus proves that this is false.

The error you've made is confusing the ground level, and the interior temperature of an object, with it's emitting surface.

In short: a ground level temp radiating far more than a planet's radiance to space does not violate planck's law or Stefan-Boltzmann because the ground level is not the whole emitting surface of the planet. The emitting surface is primarily higher in the atmosphere.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN
Edited on 07-07-2020 23:18
08-07-2020 00:33
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(3314)
tmiddles wrote:
You have both asked me the same question again (maybe you're drinking like IBD) so I'm happy to reanswer. I won't be wasting my time or abusing the board by indulging a scattered batch of off topic questions, now or in the future. You are both abusing the board. ... deleted violation of tmiddles ordinance...

Evasion of Official List of Questions.

Meaningful conversation cannot be had until you answer the questions...
08-07-2020 00:44
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
gfm7175 wrote:
...until you answer the questions...
You have asked me the same question again and as I said I won't be indulging off topic questions. You are abusing the board and you should stop.
08-07-2020 01:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21773)
tmiddles wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
...until you answer the questions...
You have asked me the same question again and as I said I won't be indulging off topic questions. You are abusing the board and you should stop.

Evasion. Answer the questions put to you.

The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
08-07-2020 01:15
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3979)
Into the Night wrote: Answer the questions put to you.
I have answered you that I considered your post to be irrelevant to the topic. Are your confused?

I will not be answering random and off topic questions for no reason. Not now or in the future.

You are repetitively abusing the board now and you should stop.
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