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It's not overpopulation problem rather population mismanagement problem


It's not overpopulation problem rather population mismanagement problem07-11-2019 17:55
decentralmind
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(2)
Overpopulation is not such a big problem as it seems to be. Earth can handle extremely large population for decades without any problems if managed well, I like to clarify it with simple high school math.

Current population = 7.7 billion, I want to make it to 8 billion for this calculation.

Australia land area size = 7.692 million km², let's narrow down to Queensland state only,

Queensland land area size = 1.853 million km².

Let's put all the world population into Queensland only

Land space for each person =
1.853 million km² / 8 billion = 0.000231625 km2 = 231.625 square meter.

Each person on planet earth will have 231.625 square meter, that's very comfortable living space for single person, many people today lived in cramped space way below than this.

Now imagine this, if each house is made with 2 Storey buildings than Queensland alone can fit 16 billion population comfortably easy.

I think overpopulation will not be of serious issue for decades unless we manage it well.
07-11-2019 18:08
HarveyH55
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(1459)
Not really a lot of space at all. Consider there is a lot more to living, than just sitting at home. All those people will need food and water. 232 m^2 isn't going to produce enough per person. So, you need some land that will produce food. You need roads and transportation to get the food and water to the people, or the people to the food and water. Think you sort of get the picture.
07-11-2019 18:56
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
decentralmind wrote:
Overpopulation is not such a big problem as it seems to be. Earth can handle extremely large population for decades without any problems if managed well, I like to clarify it with simple high school math.

Current population = 7.7 billion, I want to make it to 8 billion for this calculation.

Australia land area size = 7.692 million km², let's narrow down to Queensland state only,

Queensland land area size = 1.853 million km².

Let's put all the world population into Queensland only

Land space for each person =
1.853 million km² / 8 billion = 0.000231625 km2 = 231.625 square meter.

Each person on planet earth will have 231.625 square meter, that's very comfortable living space for single person, many people today lived in cramped space way below than this.

Now imagine this, if each house is made with 2 Storey buildings than Queensland alone can fit 16 billion population comfortably easy.

I think overpopulation will not be of serious issue for decades unless we manage it well.


Population is not 'managed'. The only people to try it are oppressive regimes like China. Didn't work for them either.

You are quite right that there is plenty of space to spare. People live in crowded areas because they want to, not because they have to.


The Parrot Killer
07-11-2019 18:57
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Not really a lot of space at all. Consider there is a lot more to living, than just sitting at home. All those people will need food and water. 232 m^2 isn't going to produce enough per person. So, you need some land that will produce food. You need roads and transportation to get the food and water to the people, or the people to the food and water. Think you sort of get the picture.


The entire remainder of the Earth is available for those resources. You are quite right. Getting the two together is the biggest issue.

Guess that's why the entire population of Earth doesn't live in Queensland!



The Parrot Killer
Edited on 07-11-2019 18:58
07-11-2019 19:37
decentralmind
☆☆☆☆☆
(2)
I've left all parts of the earth area's out of the equation except Queensland. There are more than plenty of land area's to grow food or declare whole single country for just animals.

I definitely wont think that whole population would ever live on single state but I'm trying to point out here is that how mismanagement whole system is. I thought we were running out of land areas but the above basic math shows it's not the case.

Let focus on drinking water sector, it is estimated that United States households lose over 1 trillion gallons in total each year.

Now again let's do the simple basic math,

Current population = 7.7 billion

Liters of water per person each day = (1 trillion gallons / 7.7 billion ) * 3.78541 liter = 491.61 / 365 days = 1.34 liters each day

A water wasted just from united state only if managed can provide 1.34 liters of daily water to all the population on Earth. Of course 1.34 liters of water is not enough but this equation accounts only United State.

Let look at food sectors,

It is estimated that during 2018 United State alone wasted 1.3 billion tons of food each year.

Now again let's do simple math,

Kg of food per person each day = (1.3 billion / 7.7 billion) * 1000 kg = 168.83 kg / 365 days = 0.46 kg

Food wasted by United State alone provide 0.46 kg of food to all the population of earth if managed well. Of course again 0.46 kg is not sufficient but this equation only account food wasted by United State.

I just want to highlight how mismanaged the whole world is. The world can sustain far more population if managed well.
07-11-2019 20:18
GasGuzzler
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(1467)
I love pizza, but not the crust. I don't eat it. What would be the proper management of that crust so it doesn't go to waste?
07-11-2019 21:12
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
decentralmind wrote:
I've left all parts of the earth area's out of the equation except Queensland. There are more than plenty of land area's to grow food or declare whole single country for just animals.

I definitely wont think that whole population would ever live on single state but I'm trying to point out here is that how mismanagement whole system is. I thought we were running out of land areas but the above basic math shows it's not the case.

Let focus on drinking water sector, it is estimated that United States households lose over 1 trillion gallons in total each year.

Now again let's do the simple basic math,

Current population = 7.7 billion

Liters of water per person each day = (1 trillion gallons / 7.7 billion ) * 3.78541 liter = 491.61 / 365 days = 1.34 liters each day

A water wasted just from united state only if managed can provide 1.34 liters of daily water to all the population on Earth. Of course 1.34 liters of water is not enough but this equation accounts only United State.

Let look at food sectors,

It is estimated that during 2018 United State alone wasted 1.3 billion tons of food each year.

Now again let's do simple math,

Kg of food per person each day = (1.3 billion / 7.7 billion) * 1000 kg = 168.83 kg / 365 days = 0.46 kg

Food wasted by United State alone provide 0.46 kg of food to all the population of earth if managed well. Of course again 0.46 kg is not sufficient but this equation only account food wasted by United State.

I just want to highlight how mismanaged the whole world is. The world can sustain far more population if managed well.



What you ignored are the effects to the environment. Victoria Island has had much of its trees harvested. Fresh water around the planet is becoming scarce. If things don't change in the US then it's western states might become like Jordan.
Meanwhile Israel and other Arab countries are heavily dependent on desalination and the US is going to need to accept that it will need to as well.
This is something that could hurt the US because of wasteful government spending that didn't improve the infrastructure to support the quality of life that Americans enjoy.
Although I've heard that Australia is a nice place to live. It's government also seems to be fiscally responsible. It's GDP to debt ratio is about 1/2 that of the US.
This is where the US has over 4 times the people and it creates problems. An example is the income disparity. It's one of the highest in the world.
07-11-2019 22:11
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1459)
GasGuzzler wrote:
I love pizza, but not the crust. I don't eat it. What would be the proper management of that crust so it doesn't go to waste?


Get a large breed dog... They're good for other things too, great crime deterrents. I had a Rottweiler-Curr mix that made a man pee himself once... Of course the man was outside of a bar, and stupid drunk, might have peed himself earlier... I just noticed, as I was dragging the dog away.
07-11-2019 22:13
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1459)
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Not really a lot of space at all. Consider there is a lot more to living, than just sitting at home. All those people will need food and water. 232 m^2 isn't going to produce enough per person. So, you need some land that will produce food. You need roads and transportation to get the food and water to the people, or the people to the food and water. Think you sort of get the picture.


The entire remainder of the Earth is available for those resources. You are quite right. Getting the two together is the biggest issue.

Guess that's why the entire population of Earth doesn't live in Queensland!


Most people don't like them huge poisonous spiders they have everywhere.
07-11-2019 22:20
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1459)
James___ wrote:
decentralmind wrote:
I've left all parts of the earth area's out of the equation except Queensland. There are more than plenty of land area's to grow food or declare whole single country for just animals.

I definitely wont think that whole population would ever live on single state but I'm trying to point out here is that how mismanagement whole system is. I thought we were running out of land areas but the above basic math shows it's not the case.

Let focus on drinking water sector, it is estimated that United States households lose over 1 trillion gallons in total each year.

Now again let's do the simple basic math,

Current population = 7.7 billion

Liters of water per person each day = (1 trillion gallons / 7.7 billion ) * 3.78541 liter = 491.61 / 365 days = 1.34 liters each day

A water wasted just from united state only if managed can provide 1.34 liters of daily water to all the population on Earth. Of course 1.34 liters of water is not enough but this equation accounts only United State.

Let look at food sectors,

It is estimated that during 2018 United State alone wasted 1.3 billion tons of food each year.

Now again let's do simple math,

Kg of food per person each day = (1.3 billion / 7.7 billion) * 1000 kg = 168.83 kg / 365 days = 0.46 kg

Food wasted by United State alone provide 0.46 kg of food to all the population of earth if managed well. Of course again 0.46 kg is not sufficient but this equation only account food wasted by United State.

I just want to highlight how mismanaged the whole world is. The world can sustain far more population if managed well.



What you ignored are the effects to the environment. Victoria Island has had much of its trees harvested. Fresh water around the planet is becoming scarce. If things don't change in the US then it's western states might become like Jordan.
Meanwhile Israel and other Arab countries are heavily dependent on desalination and the US is going to need to accept that it will need to as well.
This is something that could hurt the US because of wasteful government spending that didn't improve the infrastructure to support the quality of life that Americans enjoy.
Although I've heard that Australia is a nice place to live. It's government also seems to be fiscally responsible. It's GDP to debt ratio is about 1/2 that of the US.
This is where the US has over 4 times the people and it creates problems. An example is the income disparity. It's one of the highest in the world.


Isn't rain water, fresh water? I would think fresh water would be a problem for people living near mountains, except maybe California. People chose to live where they do, and move, when it no longer provides what they want or need, just like any other animal.
08-11-2019 04:10
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
decentralmind wrote:
I've left all parts of the earth area's out of the equation except Queensland. There are more than plenty of land area's to grow food or declare whole single country for just animals.

I definitely wont think that whole population would ever live on single state but I'm trying to point out here is that how mismanagement whole system is. I thought we were running out of land areas but the above basic math shows it's not the case.

Let focus on drinking water sector, it is estimated that United States households lose over 1 trillion gallons in total each year.

Now again let's do the simple basic math,

Current population = 7.7 billion

Liters of water per person each day = (1 trillion gallons / 7.7 billion ) * 3.78541 liter = 491.61 / 365 days = 1.34 liters each day

A water wasted just from united state only if managed can provide 1.34 liters of daily water to all the population on Earth. Of course 1.34 liters of water is not enough but this equation accounts only United State.

Let look at food sectors,

It is estimated that during 2018 United State alone wasted 1.3 billion tons of food each year.

Now again let's do simple math,

Kg of food per person each day = (1.3 billion / 7.7 billion) * 1000 kg = 168.83 kg / 365 days = 0.46 kg

Food wasted by United State alone provide 0.46 kg of food to all the population of earth if managed well. Of course again 0.46 kg is not sufficient but this equation only account food wasted by United State.

I just want to highlight how mismanaged the whole world is. The world can sustain far more population if managed well.



What you ignored are the effects to the environment. Victoria Island has had much of its trees harvested. Fresh water around the planet is becoming scarce. If things don't change in the US then it's western states might become like Jordan.
Meanwhile Israel and other Arab countries are heavily dependent on desalination and the US is going to need to accept that it will need to as well.
This is something that could hurt the US because of wasteful government spending that didn't improve the infrastructure to support the quality of life that Americans enjoy.
Although I've heard that Australia is a nice place to live. It's government also seems to be fiscally responsible. It's GDP to debt ratio is about 1/2 that of the US.
This is where the US has over 4 times the people and it creates problems. An example is the income disparity. It's one of the highest in the world.


Isn't rain water, fresh water? I would think fresh water would be a problem for people living near mountains, except maybe California. People chose to live where they do, and move, when it no longer provides what they want or need, just like any other animal.



Learn about agricultural production west of the Mississippi River and the amount of water that requires. I don't think people will want to drain our rivers in hopes that enough rain will fall.
These links might give you a start.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/07/western-us-states-using-ground-water-alarming-rate

http://duwaterlawreview.com/crisis-on-the-high-plains-the-loss-of-americas-largest-aquifer-the-ogallala/
08-11-2019 05:52
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
And then there's this; https://www.denverpost.com/2012/12/04/missouri-river-pipeline-mulled-to-ease-front-ranges-water-woes/
08-11-2019 19:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
decentralmind wrote:
I've left all parts of the earth area's out of the equation except Queensland. There are more than plenty of land area's to grow food or declare whole single country for just animals.

I definitely wont think that whole population would ever live on single state but I'm trying to point out here is that how mismanagement whole system is. I thought we were running out of land areas but the above basic math shows it's not the case.

Let focus on drinking water sector, it is estimated that United States households lose over 1 trillion gallons in total each year.

Now again let's do the simple basic math,

Current population = 7.7 billion

Liters of water per person each day = (1 trillion gallons / 7.7 billion ) * 3.78541 liter = 491.61 / 365 days = 1.34 liters each day

A water wasted just from united state only if managed can provide 1.34 liters of daily water to all the population on Earth. Of course 1.34 liters of water is not enough but this equation accounts only United State.

Let look at food sectors,

It is estimated that during 2018 United State alone wasted 1.3 billion tons of food each year.

Now again let's do simple math,

Kg of food per person each day = (1.3 billion / 7.7 billion) * 1000 kg = 168.83 kg / 365 days = 0.46 kg

Food wasted by United State alone provide 0.46 kg of food to all the population of earth if managed well. Of course again 0.46 kg is not sufficient but this equation only account food wasted by United State.

I just want to highlight how mismanaged the whole world is. The world can sustain far more population if managed well.



What you ignored are the effects to the environment. Victoria Island has had much of its trees harvested. Fresh water around the planet is becoming scarce. If things don't change in the US then it's western states might become like Jordan.
Meanwhile Israel and other Arab countries are heavily dependent on desalination and the US is going to need to accept that it will need to as well.
This is something that could hurt the US because of wasteful government spending that didn't improve the infrastructure to support the quality of life that Americans enjoy.
Although I've heard that Australia is a nice place to live. It's government also seems to be fiscally responsible. It's GDP to debt ratio is about 1/2 that of the US.
This is where the US has over 4 times the people and it creates problems. An example is the income disparity. It's one of the highest in the world.


Isn't rain water, fresh water? I would think fresh water would be a problem for people living near mountains, except maybe California. People chose to live where they do, and move, when it no longer provides what they want or need, just like any other animal.


Rain water is fresh water. It falls mostly on the prevailing windward sides of mountains. That wind is normally from the sea in the West. That's why the western slopes of coastal ranges, the Cascades, and even the Rockies get the most rain.

The mountains is where much of the rainwater falls. It is the mountain itself that starts air rising.


The Parrot Killer
09-11-2019 05:49
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1459)
Fresh water falls from the sky, abundantly, and causes flooding in many areas. All of your precious glaciers are fresh water. Storm water is generally diverted to a water way heading toward the sea. Would you think if there was an actual fresh water crisis, people would be making better use of the natural resource falling out of the sky?
09-11-2019 06:24
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
decentralmind wrote:
I've left all parts of the earth area's out of the equation except Queensland. There are more than plenty of land area's to grow food or declare whole single country for just animals.

I definitely wont think that whole population would ever live on single state but I'm trying to point out here is that how mismanagement whole system is. I thought we were running out of land areas but the above basic math shows it's not the case.

Let focus on drinking water sector, it is estimated that United States households lose over 1 trillion gallons in total each year.

Now again let's do the simple basic math,

Current population = 7.7 billion

Liters of water per person each day = (1 trillion gallons / 7.7 billion ) * 3.78541 liter = 491.61 / 365 days = 1.34 liters each day

A water wasted just from united state only if managed can provide 1.34 liters of daily water to all the population on Earth. Of course 1.34 liters of water is not enough but this equation accounts only United State.

Let look at food sectors,

It is estimated that during 2018 United State alone wasted 1.3 billion tons of food each year.

Now again let's do simple math,

Kg of food per person each day = (1.3 billion / 7.7 billion) * 1000 kg = 168.83 kg / 365 days = 0.46 kg

Food wasted by United State alone provide 0.46 kg of food to all the population of earth if managed well. Of course again 0.46 kg is not sufficient but this equation only account food wasted by United State.

I just want to highlight how mismanaged the whole world is. The world can sustain far more population if managed well.



What you ignored are the effects to the environment. Victoria Island has had much of its trees harvested. Fresh water around the planet is becoming scarce. If things don't change in the US then it's western states might become like Jordan.
Meanwhile Israel and other Arab countries are heavily dependent on desalination and the US is going to need to accept that it will need to as well.
This is something that could hurt the US because of wasteful government spending that didn't improve the infrastructure to support the quality of life that Americans enjoy.
Although I've heard that Australia is a nice place to live. It's government also seems to be fiscally responsible. It's GDP to debt ratio is about 1/2 that of the US.
This is where the US has over 4 times the people and it creates problems. An example is the income disparity. It's one of the highest in the world.


Isn't rain water, fresh water? I would think fresh water would be a problem for people living near mountains, except maybe California. People chose to live where they do, and move, when it no longer provides what they want or need, just like any other animal.


Rain water is fresh water. It falls mostly on the prevailing windward sides of mountains. That wind is normally from the sea in the West. That's why the western slopes of coastal ranges, the Cascades, and even the Rockies get the most rain.

The mountains is where much of the rainwater falls. It is the mountain itself that starts air rising.



The reason according to KOMO News 4 is that Seattle has the bluest skies is because it's on the Puget Sound. The Pacific Northwest is called God's Country for a reason. Kind of why I'm a tad or wee bit of an environmentalist.

https://youtu.be/ZDPhJu9i-9c

ITN, what most people might not understand is that when the Seattle metropolitan area had a population of 2 million people, the entire state of Kentucky couldn't keep up with it.
PBS did a documentary about Seattle and said that it's people were still in love with the World's Fair from 1961.
I think that all of the innovation that comes from the area might make Seattle one of the best places in the world to live.
Edited on 09-11-2019 07:22
09-11-2019 08:07
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
What some people might not know is that a tribe on the Columbia River couldn't use 1 salmon in a traditional ceremony. One indication that dams on the river has decreased the number of salmon that spawn up river
When I lived in Vancouver, Washington, I still read the paper.
09-11-2019 13:18
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1459)
James___ wrote:
What some people might not know is that a tribe on the Columbia River couldn't use 1 salmon in a traditional ceremony. One indication that dams on the river has decreased the number of salmon that spawn up river
When I lived in Vancouver, Washington, I still read the paper.


Some how find that hard to believe, but then again I grew up in Oregon. That was a long time ago, but the salmon made it up river just fine, and past the three damns. They have something called fish ladders... I lived way up on a snow capped mountain, and can't remember a year, not being able to catch a a few salmon and steelhead. And that was within walking distance of my house, we live in town... Of course walking allowed to access areas of rivers not so crowed, and employ no-traditional fishing techniques... We didn't get to fish everyday, or even every weekend, since most of the paths we used weren't usable when wet, which was often. Not always easy to catch a ride, or as successful with a fishing pole. Pretty sure Native Americans had better.
09-11-2019 19:01
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
What some people might not know is that a tribe on the Columbia River couldn't use 1 salmon in a traditional ceremony. One indication that dams on the river has decreased the number of salmon that spawn up river
When I lived in Vancouver, Washington, I still read the paper.


Some how find that hard to believe, but then again I grew up in Oregon. That was a long time ago, but the salmon made it up river just fine, and past the three damns. They have something called fish ladders... I lived way up on a snow capped mountain, and can't remember a year, not being able to catch a a few salmon and steelhead. And that was within walking distance of my house, we live in town... Of course walking allowed to access areas of rivers not so crowed, and employ no-traditional fishing techniques... We didn't get to fish everyday, or even every weekend, since most of the paths we used weren't usable when wet, which was often. Not always easy to catch a ride, or as successful with a fishing pole. Pretty sure Native Americans had better.



Times have changed. My dad used to go to Alaska for King Crab. He said they used to throw away what's being kept now. The link is about the fish runs to Idaho.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/16/science/chinook-salmon-columbia.html


And early next week it will be cold in Florida
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/next-weeks-arctic-blast-cold-113051061.html
Edited on 09-11-2019 19:20
09-11-2019 20:56
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
decentralmind wrote:
I've left all parts of the earth area's out of the equation except Queensland. There are more than plenty of land area's to grow food or declare whole single country for just animals.

I definitely wont think that whole population would ever live on single state but I'm trying to point out here is that how mismanagement whole system is. I thought we were running out of land areas but the above basic math shows it's not the case.

Let focus on drinking water sector, it is estimated that United States households lose over 1 trillion gallons in total each year.

Now again let's do the simple basic math,

Current population = 7.7 billion

Liters of water per person each day = (1 trillion gallons / 7.7 billion ) * 3.78541 liter = 491.61 / 365 days = 1.34 liters each day

A water wasted just from united state only if managed can provide 1.34 liters of daily water to all the population on Earth. Of course 1.34 liters of water is not enough but this equation accounts only United State.

Let look at food sectors,

It is estimated that during 2018 United State alone wasted 1.3 billion tons of food each year.

Now again let's do simple math,

Kg of food per person each day = (1.3 billion / 7.7 billion) * 1000 kg = 168.83 kg / 365 days = 0.46 kg

Food wasted by United State alone provide 0.46 kg of food to all the population of earth if managed well. Of course again 0.46 kg is not sufficient but this equation only account food wasted by United State.

I just want to highlight how mismanaged the whole world is. The world can sustain far more population if managed well.



What you ignored are the effects to the environment. Victoria Island has had much of its trees harvested. Fresh water around the planet is becoming scarce. If things don't change in the US then it's western states might become like Jordan.
Meanwhile Israel and other Arab countries are heavily dependent on desalination and the US is going to need to accept that it will need to as well.
This is something that could hurt the US because of wasteful government spending that didn't improve the infrastructure to support the quality of life that Americans enjoy.
Although I've heard that Australia is a nice place to live. It's government also seems to be fiscally responsible. It's GDP to debt ratio is about 1/2 that of the US.
This is where the US has over 4 times the people and it creates problems. An example is the income disparity. It's one of the highest in the world.


Isn't rain water, fresh water? I would think fresh water would be a problem for people living near mountains, except maybe California. People chose to live where they do, and move, when it no longer provides what they want or need, just like any other animal.


Rain water is fresh water. It falls mostly on the prevailing windward sides of mountains. That wind is normally from the sea in the West. That's why the western slopes of coastal ranges, the Cascades, and even the Rockies get the most rain.

The mountains is where much of the rainwater falls. It is the mountain itself that starts air rising.



The reason according to KOMO News 4 is that Seattle has the bluest skies is because it's on the Puget Sound.

Seattle doesn't have the bluest skies. A fanciful song doesn't make them bluer than anywhere else either. Maybe the grayest skies...
James___ wrote:
The Pacific Northwest is called God's Country for a reason.

Everywhere is God's Country, if you believe in a god. Seattle is called the Emerald City because of all the green vegetation around here (particularly pretty on a sunny summer after a rain).
James___ wrote:
Kind of why I'm a tad or wee bit of an environmentalist.

No problem with that! But you have to recognize the difference between helping the environment and people hijacking your views for the purposes of spreading socialism.
James___ wrote:
ITN, what most people might not understand is that when the Seattle metropolitan area had a population of 2 million people, the entire state of Kentucky couldn't keep up with it.

That's Kentucy's problem.

James___ wrote:
PBS did a documentary about Seattle and said that it's people were still in love with the World's Fair from 1961.

Most people here weren't at the World's fair. I was. The Monorail, the Space Needle, and the Science Center are all that remains of the world's fair. All other buildings have been retasked to something else or torn down. The Armory building was retasked to be the Food Circus during the fair (complete with the Bubble-ator!). The restaurants have changed, and the rest of the building has been turned into the childrens' museum and the like, and the Bubble-ator is gone. (It was donated to Children's Hospital, but they couldn't use it. The parts were auctioned off. The bubble is a private greenhouse now.

The pixie elf that ran it is now a very elderly grandmother enjoying lots of kids.

Times have changed since 1961!

James___ wrote:
I think that all of the innovation that comes from the area might make Seattle one of the best places in the world to live.

There is actually less innovation than is believed.

Microsoft has not come out with any significant product for a very long time now. Both Windows and DOS came from other sources outside the Puget Sound area. Little innovation there.

Google has some offices here, but much of that is spent trying to build cloud services for Google, copying Amazon. Google Android support is also done here, but Android came from silicon valley, not the PNW.

Amazon has been very innovative. They are not only a very successful bookseller, they sell all kinds of products now on line; and with a warehouse system that is worldwide. They have also introduced not only the most extensive cloud services on the planet, but introduced products designed to take advantage of it, such as the Alexa service (Google and Microsoft is trying to copy it). At least Google can hook theirs into Google's indexing service.

Boeing has been building essentially the same airframe in slightly different ways and with different materials they come across, but not much actual change in design there. Aircraft systems are changing, but those come from all over the world, not the PNW.

Innovation happens everywhere, not just the PNW. You can find some real innovation in chemistry all throughout Texas and Louisiana. Innovation in electronics is found in Taiwan, Japan, and South Korea. Innovation in food production occurs not just among the farmers all over, but in labs in the Boston area and in Missouri. Innovation in oil and natural gas products is still found in Texas and Oklahoma, as well as Louisiana.

What has the PNW got besides Microsoft, Boeing, Google, and Amazon?
Starbucks coffee, Nintendo, and oh...high costs, arrogant and self centered people, lots of homeless, pot and other 'recreational' drugs, and the highest depression rate in the country (thanks to all those grey skies).

When it's sunny here, especially in the summer, it is gorgeous. We have some the best developed night skiing anywhere in the world (even if it IS on what the skiers call 'Cascade Concrete'). Puget Sound is indeed blue now. So is Lake Washington. I cleaned them both. In 1961, they were open sewers.


The Parrot Killer
09-11-2019 21:00
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
James___ wrote:
What some people might not know is that a tribe on the Columbia River couldn't use 1 salmon in a traditional ceremony. One indication that dams on the river has decreased the number of salmon that spawn up river
When I lived in Vancouver, Washington, I still read the paper.


It has always been possible to catch salmon in the Columbia river. It still is. The dams have fish ladders and the salmon have no problem with it. They can actually travel further up the river than they used to before the dams.

Salmon are also plentiful in Puget Sound and in the coastal waters where the Columbia river drains to.

I suggest the tribe had other problems, or that you are quoting fake news.


The Parrot Killer
09-11-2019 21:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
What some people might not know is that a tribe on the Columbia River couldn't use 1 salmon in a traditional ceremony. One indication that dams on the river has decreased the number of salmon that spawn up river
When I lived in Vancouver, Washington, I still read the paper.


Some how find that hard to believe, but then again I grew up in Oregon. That was a long time ago, but the salmon made it up river just fine, and past the three damns. They have something called fish ladders... I lived way up on a snow capped mountain, and can't remember a year, not being able to catch a a few salmon and steelhead. And that was within walking distance of my house, we live in town... Of course walking allowed to access areas of rivers not so crowed, and employ no-traditional fishing techniques... We didn't get to fish everyday, or even every weekend, since most of the paths we used weren't usable when wet, which was often. Not always easy to catch a ride, or as successful with a fishing pole. Pretty sure Native Americans had better.


Salmon in the Columbia can now travel further upstream than before the dams because of those fish ladders, and the dams themselves provide deep water areas for them to rest in before continuing on upstream. The little guys that spawn from those spawning beds have no problem negotiating their way down through those same fish ladders.

The indians in the area used nets for much of the Columbia river fishing. That was before the dams, and was limited to pretty much anything below The Dalles rapids at the time. Before the dams, salmon could not get past the Dalles.


The Parrot Killer
09-11-2019 21:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
What some people might not know is that a tribe on the Columbia River couldn't use 1 salmon in a traditional ceremony. One indication that dams on the river has decreased the number of salmon that spawn up river
When I lived in Vancouver, Washington, I still read the paper.


Some how find that hard to believe, but then again I grew up in Oregon. That was a long time ago, but the salmon made it up river just fine, and past the three damns. They have something called fish ladders... I lived way up on a snow capped mountain, and can't remember a year, not being able to catch a a few salmon and steelhead. And that was within walking distance of my house, we live in town... Of course walking allowed to access areas of rivers not so crowed, and employ no-traditional fishing techniques... We didn't get to fish everyday, or even every weekend, since most of the paths we used weren't usable when wet, which was often. Not always easy to catch a ride, or as successful with a fishing pole. Pretty sure Native Americans had better.



Times have changed. My dad used to go to Alaska for King Crab. He said they used to throw away what's being kept now. The link is about the fish runs to Idaho.

...deleted fake news...

And early next week it will be cold in Florida
...deleted long range forecast...


Nope. The size that you can keep has not changed. You MUST throw away ones that are too small. Dungeness crab (I prefer it's flavor) is still plentiful and still have the same limits on size you can keep. They are all over Puget Sound and Hood Canal.


The Parrot Killer
09-11-2019 21:15
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
What might be a thought is to place screens to create a path to the fish ladders. Nitrogen is released by the churning water coming out of the dam. This kills a lot of fish. Or even just make a stream that goes around the dam.
What might be a strange proposal to pull water from the Mississippi River is to use locks to reduce the flow. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes to that.
09-11-2019 23:16
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
James___ wrote:
What might be a thought is to place screens to create a path to the fish ladders.
Already there.
James___ wrote:
Nitrogen is released by the churning water coming out of the dam.
No nitrogen is released from water.
James___ wrote:
This kills a lot of fish.
Doesn't affect fish.
James___ wrote:
Or even just make a stream that goes around the dam.
Already done. That's what a fish ladder is.
James___ wrote:
What might be a strange proposal to pull water from the Mississippi River is to use locks to reduce the flow. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes to that.

Locks don't reduce the flow. They can't.


The Parrot Killer




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