12V DC motor question

GasGuzzler wrote:
I am on a mission to build the ultimate fishing kayak. It will be a semi hillbilly build, and if it performs like I want it to, I will put the money into a high quality vessel next year. I've got a lot of logistics to hammer out. Here's my question for the board....

If I put a 60 amp 12v DC motor speed controller on the 12v trolling motor, will it draw less amps at lower speed than higher speeds, or will it effectively act like a 120v dimmer switch which is essentially a power dump.

I have an older trolling motor on my Lund fishing boat, but the controls are all jacked up. The motor is strong, and I would like to cut the shaft down to customize to the kayak and wire it to a reversing speed controller with an output monitor.

I will only be packing one lithium 100 amp/hr battery. I'm seeing guys get 30-50 miles out of a charge if the speed is kept low around 2-3 mph. I'm not expecting that with the older inefficient motor, but I'd like to get across the lake and back.

Any "input" would be appreciated. Thanks!

James_ wrote:
This could be garbage. Any chance you could hook up fuses before your motor controller?

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
This could be garbage. Any chance you could hook up fuses before your motor controller?

I don't currently own a speed controller, but I was thinking something like this. If it craps out in a year, no big deal it was $25.

Other option is spending more on a newer trolling motor and breaking down those controls to put in some type of panel, but I really don't want to spend that kind of money on a hillbilly build. This is a prototype boat to work out the bugs. If I like it, I'll drop the $ next year on new and efficient quality stuff.

James_ wrote:
After I get home I'll design something on SketchUp so you'll see how 3 or 4 fuses can support running in series. https://lithiumhub.com/series-vs-parallel/

And then you can use a bolt on top of the contacts for the fuse's discharge. Then the bolt becomes hot. Then that can feed your controller or whatever you use to change your Motor's speed. In the link, think of your electric motor as the battery. You know that fuses will blow if too much current tires to pass through it.

GasGuzzler wrote:
I am on a mission to build the ultimate fishing kayak. It will be a semi hillbilly build, and if it performs like I want it to, I will put the money into a high quality vessel next year. I've got a lot of logistics to hammer out. Here's my question for the board....

GasGuzzler wrote:
If I put a 60 amp 12v DC motor speed controller on the 12v trolling motor, will it draw less amps at lower speed than higher speeds, or will it effectively act like a 120v dimmer switch which is essentially a power dump.

GasGuzzler wrote:
I have an older trolling motor on my Lund fishing boat, but the controls are all jacked up. The motor is strong, and I would like to cut the shaft down to customize to the kayak and wire it to a reversing speed controller with an output monitor.

GasGuzzler wrote:
I will only be packing one lithium 100 amp/hr battery. I'm seeing guys get 30-50 miles out of a charge if the speed is kept low around 2-3 mph. I'm not expecting that with the older inefficient motor, but I'd like to get across the lake and back.

GasGuzzler wrote:
Any "input" would be appreciated. Thanks!

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
This could be garbage. Any chance you could hook up fuses before your motor controller?

I don't currently own a speed controller, but I was thinking something like this. If it craps out in a year, no big deal it was $25.

Other option is spending more on a newer trolling motor and breaking down those controls to put in some type of panel, but I really don't want to spend that kind of money on a hillbilly build. This is a prototype boat to work out the bugs. If I like it, I'll drop the $ next year on new and efficient quality stuff.

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
After I get home I'll design something on SketchUp so you'll see how 3 or 4 fuses can support running in series. https://lithiumhub.com/series-vs-parallel/

And then you can use a bolt on top of the contacts for the fuse's discharge. Then the bolt becomes hot. Then that can feed your controller or whatever you use to change your Motor's speed. In the link, think of your electric motor as the battery. You know that fuses will blow if too much current tires to pass through it.

James, you are overthinking things again. It's a 12v motor-not rated for 24 so wiring in series is out of the question.

If all the other logistics work well, next year I will get a newer 24v motor and add another battery.

Right now I just want to know if a speed controller like the one pictured above will drain a battery just as fast on low speed as it does on high speed.

New lithium 100amp/hr batteries have a Bluetooth app so you can see your current draw in real time. So again, is a cheap controller fine or are they just a power dump that will leave me paddling upstream?

There seems to be a huge price difference in controllers claiming to do the exact same thing.... anywhere from $12 to $400. What's the difference?

Into the Night wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
After I get home I'll design something on SketchUp so you'll see how 3 or 4 fuses can support running in series. https://lithiumhub.com/series-vs-parallel/

And then you can use a bolt on top of the contacts for the fuse's discharge. Then the bolt becomes hot. Then that can feed your controller or whatever you use to change your Motor's speed. In the link, think of your electric motor as the battery. You know that fuses will blow if too much current tires to pass through it.

James, you are overthinking things again. It's a 12v motor-not rated for 24 so wiring in series is out of the question.

If all the other logistics work well, next year I will get a newer 24v motor and add another battery.

Right now I just want to know if a speed controller like the one pictured above will drain a battery just as fast on low speed as it does on high speed.

New lithium 100amp/hr batteries have a Bluetooth app so you can see your current draw in real time. So again, is a cheap controller fine or are they just a power dump that will leave me paddling upstream?

There seems to be a huge price difference in controllers claiming to do the exact same thing.... anywhere from $12 to $400. What's the difference?

No, it won't. When running at low speed, the pulse width is quite narrow, and the time the motor is receiving power is minimal, giving an average low current. The battery will last just fine.

The biggest difference in controllers is features, and some folks just charge too much for what the controller does. More expensive is not necessarily a better controller.

The best bet is to look 'em over, figure out what features you want, and get the cheapest controller to fulfill the job.

Like I said, they all to PWM. More expensive ones try to make a nice sine wave out of it (really unnecessary for a trolling motor!) which gives slightly better efficiency. It really comes down to what you need vs the fancy marketing bullshit you're willing to pay for.

(Doesn't it always!

)

James_ wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
After I get home I'll design something on SketchUp so you'll see how 3 or 4 fuses can support running in series. https://lithiumhub.com/series-vs-parallel/

And then you can use a bolt on top of the contacts for the fuse's discharge. Then the bolt becomes hot. Then that can feed your controller or whatever you use to change your Motor's speed. In the link, think of your electric motor as the battery. You know that fuses will blow if too much current tires to pass through it.

James, you are overthinking things again. It's a 12v motor-not rated for 24 so wiring in series is out of the question.

If all the other logistics work well, next year I will get a newer 24v motor and add another battery.

Right now I just want to know if a speed controller like the one pictured above will drain a battery just as fast on low speed as it does on high speed.

New lithium 100amp/hr batteries have a Bluetooth app so you can see your current draw in real time. So again, is a cheap controller fine or are they just a power dump that will leave me paddling upstream?

There seems to be a huge price difference in controllers claiming to do the exact same thing.... anywhere from $12 to $400. What's the difference?

No, it won't. When running at low speed, the pulse width is quite narrow, and the time the motor is receiving power is minimal, giving an average low current. The battery will last just fine.

The biggest difference in controllers is features, and some folks just charge too much for what the controller does. More expensive is not necessarily a better controller.

The best bet is to look 'em over, figure out what features you want, and get the cheapest controller to fulfill the job.

Like I said, they all to PWM. More expensive ones try to make a nice sine wave out of it (really unnecessary for a trolling motor!) which gives slightly better efficiency. It really comes down to what you need vs the fancy marketing bullshit you're willing to pay for.

(Doesn't it always!

)

For what he wants to know he'll still need to check all electrical connections.
Worn brushes on an electric motor will rob the motor of power. And with most electrical connections, a wire brush will work.
Old batteries can't hold a full charge or will lose it quickly. And can he check the
battery acid levels? It's possible for the distance he wants to cover, he might need 2 batteries. If so then running them parallel will increase the amps to the motor without increasing voltage.

Into the Night wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
After I get home I'll design something on SketchUp so you'll see how 3 or 4 fuses can support running in series. https://lithiumhub.com/series-vs-parallel/

And then you can use a bolt on top of the contacts for the fuse's discharge. Then the bolt becomes hot. Then that can feed your controller or whatever you use to change your Motor's speed. In the link, think of your electric motor as the battery. You know that fuses will blow if too much current tires to pass through it.

James, you are overthinking things again. It's a 12v motor-not rated for 24 so wiring in series is out of the question.

If all the other logistics work well, next year I will get a newer 24v motor and add another battery.

Right now I just want to know if a speed controller like the one pictured above will drain a battery just as fast on low speed as it does on high speed.

New lithium 100amp/hr batteries have a Bluetooth app so you can see your current draw in real time. So again, is a cheap controller fine or are they just a power dump that will leave me paddling upstream?

There seems to be a huge price difference in controllers claiming to do the exact same thing.... anywhere from $12 to $400. What's the difference?

No, it won't. When running at low speed, the pulse width is quite narrow, and the time the motor is receiving power is minimal, giving an average low current. The battery will last just fine.

The biggest difference in controllers is features, and some folks just charge too much for what the controller does. More expensive is not necessarily a better controller.

The best bet is to look 'em over, figure out what features you want, and get the cheapest controller to fulfill the job.

Like I said, they all to PWM. More expensive ones try to make a nice sine wave out of it (really unnecessary for a trolling motor!) which gives slightly better efficiency. It really comes down to what you need vs the fancy marketing bullshit you're willing to pay for.

(Doesn't it always!

)

GasGuzzler wrote: I am on a mission to build the ultimate fishing kayak.

GasGuzzler wrote: It will be a semi hillbilly build, and if it performs like I want it to, I will put the money into a high quality vessel next year.

GasGuzzler wrote: Here's my question for the board....

If I put a 60 amp 12v DC motor speed controller on the 12v trolling motor, will it draw less amps at lower speed than higher speeds,

GasGuzzler wrote: Any "input" would be appreciated.

IBdaMann wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote: I am on a mission to build the ultimate fishing kayak.

... full of bacon?

IBdaMann wrote:
Make sure it's a hybrid, i.e. runs on both solar and wind power.

James_ wrote:
p.s., I also never said what type of battery.

James_ wrote:
And can he check the
battery acid levels?

James_ wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
After I get home I'll design something on SketchUp so you'll see how 3 or 4 fuses can support running in series. https://lithiumhub.com/series-vs-parallel/

And then you can use a bolt on top of the contacts for the fuse's discharge. Then the bolt becomes hot. Then that can feed your controller or whatever you use to change your Motor's speed. In the link, think of your electric motor as the battery. You know that fuses will blow if too much current tires to pass through it.

James, you are overthinking things again. It's a 12v motor-not rated for 24 so wiring in series is out of the question.

If all the other logistics work well, next year I will get a newer 24v motor and add another battery.

Right now I just want to know if a speed controller like the one pictured above will drain a battery just as fast on low speed as it does on high speed.

New lithium 100amp/hr batteries have a Bluetooth app so you can see your current draw in real time. So again, is a cheap controller fine or are they just a power dump that will leave me paddling upstream?

There seems to be a huge price difference in controllers claiming to do the exact same thing.... anywhere from $12 to $400. What's the difference?

No, it won't. When running at low speed, the pulse width is quite narrow, and the time the motor is receiving power is minimal, giving an average low current. The battery will last just fine.

The biggest difference in controllers is features, and some folks just charge too much for what the controller does. More expensive is not necessarily a better controller.

The best bet is to look 'em over, figure out what features you want, and get the cheapest controller to fulfill the job.

Like I said, they all to PWM. More expensive ones try to make a nice sine wave out of it (really unnecessary for a trolling motor!) which gives slightly better efficiency. It really comes down to what you need vs the fancy marketing bullshit you're willing to pay for.

(Doesn't it always!

)

For what he wants to know he'll still need to check all electrical connections.

James_ wrote:
Worn brushes on an electric motor will rob the motor of power.

James_ wrote:
And with most electrical connections, a wire brush will work.

James_ wrote:
Old batteries can't hold a full charge or will lose it quickly.

James_ wrote:
And can he check the battery acid levels?

James_ wrote:
It's possible for the distance he wants to cover, he might need 2 batteries.

James_ wrote:
If so then running them parallel will increase the amps to the motor without increasing voltage.

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
After I get home I'll design something on SketchUp so you'll see how 3 or 4 fuses can support running in series. https://lithiumhub.com/series-vs-parallel/

And then you can use a bolt on top of the contacts for the fuse's discharge. Then the bolt becomes hot. Then that can feed your controller or whatever you use to change your Motor's speed. In the link, think of your electric motor as the battery. You know that fuses will blow if too much current tires to pass through it.

James, you are overthinking things again. It's a 12v motor-not rated for 24 so wiring in series is out of the question.

If all the other logistics work well, next year I will get a newer 24v motor and add another battery.

Right now I just want to know if a speed controller like the one pictured above will drain a battery just as fast on low speed as it does on high speed.

New lithium 100amp/hr batteries have a Bluetooth app so you can see your current draw in real time. So again, is a cheap controller fine or are they just a power dump that will leave me paddling upstream?

There seems to be a huge price difference in controllers claiming to do the exact same thing.... anywhere from $12 to $400. What's the difference?

No, it won't. When running at low speed, the pulse width is quite narrow, and the time the motor is receiving power is minimal, giving an average low current. The battery will last just fine.

The biggest difference in controllers is features, and some folks just charge too much for what the controller does. More expensive is not necessarily a better controller.

The best bet is to look 'em over, figure out what features you want, and get the cheapest controller to fulfill the job.

Like I said, they all to PWM. More expensive ones try to make a nice sine wave out of it (really unnecessary for a trolling motor!) which gives slightly better efficiency. It really comes down to what you need vs the fancy marketing bullshit you're willing to pay for.

(Doesn't it always!

)

For what he wants to know he'll still need to check all electrical connections.
Worn brushes on an electric motor will rob the motor of power. And with most electrical connections, a wire brush will work.
Old batteries can't hold a full charge or will lose it quickly. And can he check the
battery acid levels? It's possible for the distance he wants to cover, he might need 2 batteries. If so then running them parallel will increase the amps to the motor without increasing voltage.

Not doing lead acid. Takes 2 batteries to do what one lithium can do, and it's 4 times the weight. I'm not a small dude, so I will be pushing the weight limit of the kayak as it is. If I need 2 lithiums, so be it. At $200-300 each for a hillbilly build, I'll see what one can do first. Just stay by the phone. I might need a ride.

GasGuzzler wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
(Doesn't it always!

)

Thanks! This is the answer I was looking and hoping for.

GasGuzzler wrote:
Yes, it's going to be a fun project.

GasGuzzler wrote:
I'm not a boat guy.

GasGuzzler wrote:
I did inherit the Lund fishing boat. It's nice, with a 90 hp Mercury on it. Used it a few times but it's not my style. I live 5 minutes from a great fishing river. Lots of pike and walleye. I like to get home from work, grab a bite to eat, and be fishing in 10 minutes. There's some good lakes around too and I will fish those too, but mostly I use the small river close to home.

The boat just takes so much work getting in and out of the water, tough to navigate shallow waters (V bottom) and if I fish till dark in June, by the time I load up the boat and get everything put away it's after 11:00 when I finally sit to unwind for the night. If I'm lucky I'm sleeping by 1am and 6am rolls around too quickly for this old fart.

GasGuzzler wrote:
A kayak can simply be tossed in the truck in a fraction of the time.

GasGuzzler wrote:
A lot of challenges in this project. With a kayak, I am pretty much stuck in the seat. No hopping around to make adjustments or grab this or that. Everything must be done within the reach of my ass.

GasGuzzler wrote:
With a bow mounted motor I want to be able to

1) rotate the motor with electric joystick steering
2) rotate the motor 180 instantly for a dead stop and be able to push back upstream
3) control motor speed and mph precisely with a no step speed control.
4) be able to instantly rotate the prop to shallow depth when approaching rocks
5) Be able to rotate prop out of the water instantly for a nice sandy lading.

GasGuzzler wrote:
All this from hand controls on a vessel that was never designed to have a motor. Should be good fun.

GasGuzzler wrote:
Here's my river. Nothing crazy. It's just a peaceful place.

Into the Night wrote:Too much weight in the bow or the stern and the thing will never behave properly. Spread the weight of the battery/motor combination around the craft. Don't forget your OWN weight of course! It's fortunately nicely centered in the craft.

The same equations for doing weight and balance for aircraft applies to boats as well. Basically, you can just take the weight of significant components and add them up to get a total weight (including your own!). Each weight has a moment away from the center of the craft. You just add these up as well and divide by the number of items you are using. This will give you a combined weight and moment, showing where the center of gravity is going to wind up. You want it somewhere near your seat. If it's there, and the weight is not enough to sink your craft outright, it will behave well in the water.

GasGuzzler wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GasGuzzler wrote:

James_ wrote:
After I get home I'll design something on SketchUp so you'll see how 3 or 4 fuses can support running in series. https://lithiumhub.com/series-vs-parallel/

And then you can use a bolt on top of the contacts for the fuse's discharge. Then the bolt becomes hot. Then that can feed your controller or whatever you use to change your Motor's speed. In the link, think of your electric motor as the battery. You know that fuses will blow if too much current tires to pass through it.

James, you are overthinking things again. It's a 12v motor-not rated for 24 so wiring in series is out of the question.

If all the other logistics work well, next year I will get a newer 24v motor and add another battery.

Right now I just want to know if a speed controller like the one pictured above will drain a battery just as fast on low speed as it does on high speed.

New lithium 100amp/hr batteries have a Bluetooth app so you can see your current draw in real time. So again, is a cheap controller fine or are they just a power dump that will leave me paddling upstream?

There seems to be a huge price difference in controllers claiming to do the exact same thing.... anywhere from $12 to $400. What's the difference?

No, it won't. When running at low speed, the pulse width is quite narrow, and the time the motor is receiving power is minimal, giving an average low current. The battery will last just fine.

The biggest difference in controllers is features, and some folks just charge too much for what the controller does. More expensive is not necessarily a better controller.

The best bet is to look 'em over, figure out what features you want, and get the cheapest controller to fulfill the job.

Like I said, they all to PWM. More expensive ones try to make a nice sine wave out of it (really unnecessary for a trolling motor!) which gives slightly better efficiency. It really comes down to what you need vs the fancy marketing bullshit you're willing to pay for.

(Doesn't it always!

)

Thanks! This is the answer I was looking and hoping for.

Yes, it's going to be a fun project. I'm not a boat guy. I did inherit the Lund fishing boat. It's nice, with a 90 hp Mercury on it. Used it a few times but it's not my style. I live 5 minutes from a great fishing river. Lots of pike and walleye. I like to get home from work, grab a bite to eat, and be fishing in 10 minutes. There's some good lakes around too and I will fish those too, but mostly I use the small river close to home.

The boat just takes so much work getting in and out of the water, tough to navigate shallow waters (V bottom) and if I fish till dark in June, by the time I load up the boat and get everything put away it's after 11:00 when I finally sit to unwind for the night. If I'm lucky I'm sleeping by 1am and 6am rolls around too quickly for this old fart.

A kayak can simply be tossed in the truck in a fraction of the time.

A lot of challenges in this project. With a kayak, I am pretty much stuck in the seat. No hopping around to make adjustments or grab this or that. Everything must be done within the reach of my ass.

With a bow mounted motor I want to be able to

1) rotate the motor with electric joystick steering
2) rotate the motor 180 instantly for a dead stop and be able to push back upstream
3) control motor speed and mph precisely with a no step speed control.
4) be able to instantly rotate the prop to shallow depth when approaching rocks
5) Be able to rotate prop out of the water instantly for a nice sandy lading.

All this from hand controls on a vessel that was never designed to have a motor. Should be good fun.

Here's my river. Nothing crazy. It's just a peaceful place.

[quote]HarveyH55 wrote:
You'll need to waterproof the electronics...

HarveyH55 wrote:
You already have reverse on the controller. Should be instantaneous.

HarveyH55 wrote:
Haven't been able to get a handle on James's use of fuses to control (speed, or anything else). Fuses are for protection. Usually the wiring, so the insulation doesn't melt off, or start a fire. You should use some fuses though, and make sure your wires can handle the load.

IBdaMann wrote:

Into the Night wrote:Too much weight in the bow or the stern and the thing will never behave properly. Spread the weight of the battery/motor combination around the craft. Don't forget your OWN weight of course! It's fortunately nicely centered in the craft.

The same equations for doing weight and balance for aircraft applies to boats as well. Basically, you can just take the weight of significant components and add them up to get a total weight (including your own!). Each weight has a moment away from the center of the craft. You just add these up as well and divide by the number of items you are using. This will give you a combined weight and moment, showing where the center of gravity is going to wind up. You want it somewhere near your seat. If it's there, and the weight is not enough to sink your craft outright, it will behave well in the water.

What is GasGuzzler to do with the bacon? I'm guessing that he'll just have to lose a little weight, or spread himself around a bit better.

I have some name recommendations:
Bacon Baiter
Pork Punt
Trichinosis Trawler
Cured Cruiser
Cutter Coronary

.

GasGuzzler wrote: As I am granted one wish in this imaginary situation, I think of the perfect name for my ship. I will name her,

ESCAPE VELOCITY

GasGuzzler wrote: PS. Don't you EVER AGAIN suggest I might need to lose a little weight. Unoriginal and just plain baloney.