Water Vapor And The Climate, Why Carbon Dioxide Is A Very Minor Player

Conventional greenhouse theory holds that the sun's energy passes through a relatively transparent atmosphere (in absence of clouds and aerosols) and heats the surface of the earth. The surface radiates energy in infrared wave lengths back into the atmosphere. Some of that energy is absorbed by greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide and water vapor, and some is re-radiated back toward the surface, thereby raising temperatures. Why then, does the presence of water vapor, a strong greenhouse gas, cause cooling? The answer lies in the properties of water.

First, it takes heat energy to turn liquid water into water vapor. This is the latent heat of vaporization which absorbs heat energy without changing temperature. Likewise is the latent heat of fusion. It takes heat energy to change ice to liquid water, again without changing temperature.

Second, is the great heat capacity of water and water vapor, i.e., the ability to store heat energy. Since hot air rises, the contained water vapor transports heat away from the surface by convection.

The third property is related to the second. Water vapor is relatively transparent to incoming solar radiation in the visible part of the spectrum, but is an excellent absorber of infrared radiation. This capacity warms the water vapor and heat is transported away by convection. Sweger notes, "that the IR absorption of carbon dioxide on solar irradiance is of marginal effect since the absorption by water vapor is virtually 100% without any contribution from carbon dioxide." That may be overstating it a bit, but not by much since there is usually at least 60 times more water vapor in the atmosphere compared to carbon dioxide.

And, of course, more water vapor in the atmosphere produces clouds which reflect incoming sunlight back into space, so it never reaches the surface to contribute to the greenhouse effect.

We see from direct observation that water vapor tends to moderate global temperatures. As Dr. Roy Spencer notes, "The question of how much warming will result from adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is what we skeptics are skeptical of. The climate system is amazingly complex, and the IPCC position that elements within the climate system (especially clouds) will change in ways which amplify the resulting small warming tendency is highly questionable, to say the least. If the climate system instead acts to reduce the warming, then anthropogenic global warming (AGW) becomes for all practical purposes a non-issue."

HarveyH55 wrote:
https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2018/07/21/water-vapor-and-the-climate-why-carbon-dioxide-is-a-very-minor-player/

Conventional greenhouse theory holds that the sun's energy passes through a relatively transparent atmosphere (in absence of clouds and aerosols) and heats the surface of the earth. The surface radiates energy in infrared wave lengths back into the atmosphere. Some of that energy is absorbed by greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide and water vapor, and some is re-radiated back toward the surface, thereby raising temperatures. Why then, does the presence of water vapor, a strong greenhouse gas, cause cooling? The answer lies in the properties of water.

First, it takes heat energy to turn liquid water into water vapor. This is the latent heat of vaporization which absorbs heat energy without changing temperature. Likewise is the latent heat of fusion. It takes heat energy to change ice to liquid water, again without changing temperature.

Second, is the great heat capacity of water and water vapor, i.e., the ability to store heat energy. Since hot air rises, the contained water vapor transports heat away from the surface by convection.

The third property is related to the second. Water vapor is relatively transparent to incoming solar radiation in the visible part of the spectrum, but is an excellent absorber of infrared radiation. This capacity warms the water vapor and heat is transported away by convection. Sweger notes, "that the IR absorption of carbon dioxide on solar irradiance is of marginal effect since the absorption by water vapor is virtually 100% without any contribution from carbon dioxide." That may be overstating it a bit, but not by much since there is usually at least 60 times more water vapor in the atmosphere compared to carbon dioxide.

And, of course, more water vapor in the atmosphere produces clouds which reflect incoming sunlight back into space, so it never reaches the surface to contribute to the greenhouse effect.

We see from direct observation that water vapor tends to moderate global temperatures. As Dr. Roy Spencer notes, "The question of how much warming will result from adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is what we skeptics are skeptical of. The climate system is amazingly complex, and the IPCC position that elements within the climate system (especially clouds) will change in ways which amplify the resulting small warming tendency is highly questionable, to say the least. If the climate system instead acts to reduce the warming, then anthropogenic global warming (AGW) becomes for all practical purposes a non-issue."

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[/img]

HarveyH55 wrote:
https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2018/07/21/water-vapor-and-the-climate-why-carbon-dioxide-is-a-very-minor-player/

Conventional greenhouse theory holds that the sun's energy passes through a relatively transparent atmosphere (in absence of clouds and aerosols) and heats the surface of the earth. The surface radiates energy in infrared wave lengths back into the atmosphere. Some of that energy is absorbed by greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide and water vapor, and some is re-radiated back toward the surface, thereby raising temperatures. Why then, does the presence of water vapor, a strong greenhouse gas, cause cooling? The answer lies in the properties of water.

First, it takes heat energy to turn liquid water into water vapor. This is the latent heat of vaporization which absorbs heat energy without changing temperature. Likewise is the latent heat of fusion. It takes heat energy to change ice to liquid water, again without changing temperature.

Second, is the great heat capacity of water and water vapor, i.e., the ability to store heat energy. Since hot air rises, the contained water vapor transports heat away from the surface by convection.

The third property is related to the second. Water vapor is relatively transparent to incoming solar radiation in the visible part of the spectrum, but is an excellent absorber of infrared radiation. This capacity warms the water vapor and heat is transported away by convection. Sweger notes, "that the IR absorption of carbon dioxide on solar irradiance is of marginal effect since the absorption by water vapor is virtually 100% without any contribution from carbon dioxide." That may be overstating it a bit, but not by much since there is usually at least 60 times more water vapor in the atmosphere compared to carbon dioxide.

And, of course, more water vapor in the atmosphere produces clouds which reflect incoming sunlight back into space, so it never reaches the surface to contribute to the greenhouse effect.

We see from direct observation that water vapor tends to moderate global temperatures. As Dr. Roy Spencer notes, "The question of how much warming will result from adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is what we skeptics are skeptical of. The climate system is amazingly complex, and the IPCC position that elements within the climate system (especially clouds) will change in ways which amplify the resulting small warming tendency is highly questionable, to say the least. If the climate system instead acts to reduce the warming, then anthropogenic global warming (AGW) becomes for all practical purposes a non-issue."

HarveyH55 wrote: https://arizonadailyindependent.com/2018/07/21/water-vapor-and-the-climate-why-carbon-dioxide-is-a-very-minor-player/

some is re-radiated back toward the surface, thereby raising temperatures.

Second, is the great heat capacity of water and water vapor, i.e., the ability to store heat energy.

Since hot air rises, the contained water vapor transports heat away from the surface by convection.

And, of course, more water vapor in the atmosphere produces clouds which reflect incoming sunlight back into space, so it never reaches the surface to contribute to the greenhouse effect.

We see from direct observation that water vapor tends to moderate global temperatures.

As Dr. Roy Spencer notes, "The question of how much warming will result from adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is what we skeptics are skeptical of.

HarveyH55 wrote:80% of the planet surface is water. Water is very good at moving thermal energy. We have ocean currents, we have wind. Water will move thermal energy from hot to cold. Which is pretty good, since only half the planet faces the sun at any moment. We don't get the huge shock of going from a hot day,to freezing cold, when the sunsets.

IBdaMann wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:80% of the planet surface is water. Water is very good at moving thermal energy. We have ocean currents, we have wind. Water will move thermal energy from hot to cold. Which is pretty good, since only half the planet faces the sun at any moment. We don't get the huge shock of going from a hot day,to freezing cold, when the sunsets.

Solid point.

The earth itself acquires thermal energy from the sun, and loses thermal energy via thermal radiation into space, all according to Stefan-Boltzmann and blackbody science. Wamizombie claims, that the shuttling around of thermal energy as you describe somehow creates thermal energy and somehow increases temperatures, stand in denial of science.

HarveyH55 wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:80% of the planet surface is water. Water is very good at moving thermal energy. We have ocean currents, we have wind. Water will move thermal energy from hot to cold. Which is pretty good, since only half the planet faces the sun at any moment. We don't get the huge shock of going from a hot day,to freezing cold, when the sunsets.

Solid point.

The earth itself acquires thermal energy from the sun, and loses thermal energy via thermal radiation into space, all according to Stefan-Boltzmann and blackbody science. Wamizombie claims, that the shuttling around of thermal energy as you describe somehow creates thermal energy and somehow increases temperatures, stand in denial of science.

I really don't get where liberals have such a strong faith in 'free-stuff'. Poor parenting I'm sure played a huge role.

IBdaMann wrote:As Dr. Roy Spencer notes, "The question of how much warming will result from adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is what we skeptics are skeptical of.

Im a BM wrote:
Well, nobody has to settle for sloppy seconds any more.