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The science is absolutely not settled



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The science is absolutely not settled30-01-2021 18:22
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
https://mises.org/wire/physicist-howard-haydens-one-letter-disproof-global-warming-claims

Dear Administrator Jackson:

I write in regard to the Proposed Endangerment and Cause or Contribute Findings for Greenhouse Gases Under Section 202(a) of the Clean Air Act, Proposed Rule, 74 Fed. Reg. 18,886 (Apr. 24, 2009), the so-called "Endangerment Finding."

It has been often said that the "science is settled" on the issue of CO2 and climate. Let me put this claim to rest with a simple one-letter proof that it is false.

The letter is s, the one that changes model into models. If the science were settled, there would be precisely one model, and it would be in agreement with measurements.

Alternatively, one may ask which one of the twenty-some models settled the science so that all the rest could be discarded along with the research funds that have kept those models alive.

We can take this further. Not a single climate model predicted the current cooling phase. If the science were settled, the model (singular) would have predicted it.

Let me next address the horror story that we are approaching (or have passed) a "tipping point." Anybody who has worked with amplifiers knows about tipping points. The output "goes to the rail." Not only that, but it stays there. That's the official worry coming from the likes of James Hansen (of NASA­GISS) and Al Gore.

But therein lies the proof that we are nowhere near a tipping point. The earth, it seems, has seen times when the CO2 concentration was up to 8,000 ppm, and that did not lead to a tipping point. If it did, we would not be here talking about it. In fact, seen on the long scale, the CO2 concentration in the present cycle of glacials (ca. 200 ppm) and interglacials (ca. 300-400 ppm) is lower than it has been for the last 300 million years.

Global-warming alarmists tell us that the rising CO2 concentration is (A) anthropogenic and (
leading to global warming.

(A) CO2 concentration has risen and fallen in the past with no help from mankind. The present rise began in the 1700s, long before humans could have made a meaningful contribution. Alarmists have failed to ask, let alone answer, what the CO2 level would be today if we had never burned any fuels. They simply assume that it would be the "pre-industrial" value.

The solubility of CO2 in water decreases as water warms, and increases as water cools. The warming of the earth since the Little Ice Age has thus caused the oceans to emit CO2 into the atmosphere.
(
The first principle of causality is that the cause has to come before the effect. The historical record shows that climate changes precede CO2 changes. How, then, can one conclude that CO2 is responsible for the current warming?

Nobody doubts that CO2 has some greenhouse effect, and nobody doubts that CO2 concentration is increasing. But what would we have to fear if CO2 and temperature actually increased?

A warmer world is a better world. Look at weather-related death rates in winter and in summer, and the case is overwhelming that warmer is better.
The higher the CO2 levels, the more vibrant is the biosphere, as numerous experiments in greenhouses have shown. But a quick trip to the museum can make that case in spades. Those huge dinosaurs could not exist anywhere on the earth today because the land is not productive enough. CO2 is plant food, pure and simple.
CO2 is not pollution by any reasonable definition.
A warmer world begets more precipitation.
All computer models predict a smaller temperature gradient between the poles and the equator. Necessarily, this would mean fewer and less violent storms.
The melting point of ice is 0 ºC in Antarctica, just as it is everywhere else. The highest recorded temperature at the South Pole is -14 ºC, and the lowest is -117 ºC. How, pray, will a putative few degrees of warming melt all the ice and inundate Florida, as is claimed by the warming alarmists?
Consider the change in vocabulary that has occurred. The term global warming has given way to the term climate change, because the former is not supported by the data. The latter term, climate change, admits of all kinds of illogical attributions. If it warms up, that's climate change. If it cools down, ditto. Any change whatsoever can be said by alarmists to be proof of climate change.

In a way, we have been here before. Lord Kelvin "proved" that the earth could not possibly be as old as the geologists said. He "proved" it using the conservation of energy. What he didn't know was that nuclear energy, not gravitation, provides the internal heat of the sun and the earth.

Similarly, the global-warming alarmists have "proved" that CO2 causes global warming.

Except when it doesn't.

To put it fairly but bluntly, the global-warming alarmists have relied on a pathetic version of science in which computer models take precedence over data, and numerical averages of computer outputs are believed to be able to predict the future climate. It would be a travesty if the EPA were to countenance such nonsense.

Best Regards,

Howard C. Hayden
Professor Emeritus of Physics, UConn
30-01-2021 18:48
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3195)
Science is redundant, and repeatable. One computer model, is not science. One data set, is not science. Proxies, and analogs are not data. Global warming, is theoretically possible, on paper, which is all the consensus ever agreed to. The probability that it could actually be happening, is extremely low. We don't have the means, to actual measure, observe it happening. It's an extremely weak argument, but politics, marketing, and greed make up for the shortfalls. It'll remain popular, as long as it's profitable, or somebody comes up with a better scam.
30-01-2021 19:03
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Science is redundant, and repeatable. One computer model, is not science. One data set, is not science. Proxies, and analogs are not data. Global warming, is theoretically possible, on paper, which is all the consensus ever agreed to. The probability that it could actually be happening, is extremely low. We don't have the means, to actual measure, observe it happening. It's an extremely weak argument, but politics, marketing, and greed make up for the shortfalls. It'll remain popular, as long as it's profitable, or somebody comes up with a better scam.


LOL if the science were settled then all computer models would agree. They do not so no one knows

Rather simple
30-01-2021 20:44
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8625)
HarveyH55 wrote: Science is redundant, and repeatable.

Science is not an action. Here I believe you are referring more accurately to the scientific method which utilizes experiments ... which must be repeatable to be valid.

Science models are not themselves redundant because Occam's Razor eliminates redundancies as well as eliminating more complex models that express the same thing. Here I believe you are referring to how the external consistency of science models translates directly into clear and obvious overlap in science experiments.

In both cases you are spot on.

HarveyH55 wrote: One computer model, is not science.

Correct. Any given computer model is simply one person's unsupported claim, expressed in a programming language instead of being expressed in English. This is done in order to be able to say "It's not my opinion, it's what the computer is telling us! It must be true and correct! The computer can't lie!"

I feel sorry for the gullible morons that fall for it.

HarveyH55 wrote: One data set, is not science. Proxies, and analogs are not data.

You are wise beyond your years.

HarveyH55 wrote: Global warming, is theoretically possible, on paper,

Nope. No one has ever put it "on paper." To do so would result in its swift death by summary execution. Hence, no warmizombie will ever unambiguously define it.

HarveyH55 wrote: We don't have the means, to actual measure, observe it happening.

All political "crises" and "existential threats" used to control people through fear are always invisible, poorly defined and impossible to confirm.

Right now, the US is under seige by the uber-trifecta, i.e. Global Warming, China Virus and White Nationalism-driven Domestic Terrorism. We need our Federal Government to save us from the doom that they would never have created in the first place. We can only hope that our Federal Government sufficiently taxes us before we reach the tipping point, even if it might already be too late.

.
30-01-2021 21:48
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(548)
Gee apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Then they went extinct. Great point Swan!


30-01-2021 21:50
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8625)
Spongy Iris wrote: ... apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Why should any rational adult believe that?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-01-2021 22:06
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(548)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote: ... apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Why should any rational adult believe that?


.


Let's go with ice cores and fossil records...

Or you can go to a museum and see how huge dinosaur bones are, and just imagine how much oxygen they would have needed to breath, and how much CO2 they would have exhaled.


30-01-2021 22:45
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Gee apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Then they went extinct. Great point Swan!


Dinosaurs went extinct during a mass extinction event caused by an asteroid impact. However we would be here unless CO2 was dramatically greater in the past as this was environmentally normal.

Why do you ignore this
30-01-2021 23:57
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8625)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote: ... apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Why should any rational adult believe that?

Let's go with ice cores and fossil records...

Great. Let's go with those.

I hope you are prepared for a rude awakening. I hope you are prepared to find out just how gullible you were in believing conclusions you were ordered to believe without question just because someone said to you "Hey! Didn't you hear me use the words "ice cores" and "fossil record?"

Well, let's get to it. What do you want to discuss about which ice core? What fossil shall we analyze?



* . G . * . U . * . L . * . L . * . I . * . B . * . L . * . E . *



A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-01-2021 00:14
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(548)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote: ... apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Why should any rational adult believe that?

Let's go with ice cores and fossil records...

Great. Let's go with those.

I hope you are prepared for a rude awakening. I hope you are prepared to find out just how gullible you were in believing conclusions you were ordered to believe without question just because someone said to you "Hey! Didn't you hear me use the words "ice cores" and "fossil record?"

Well, let's get to it. What do you want to discuss about which ice core? What fossil shall we analyze?



* . G . * . U . * . L . * . L . * . I . * . B . * . L . * . E . *


Apparently fossil records reveal that atmospheric CO2 levels around 600 million years ago were about 7,000 parts per million. Then approximately 480 million years ago those levels gradually dropped to 4,000 ppm over about 100 million years, while average temperatures remained at a steady 72 degrees. They then jumped rapidly to 4,500 ppm and guess what! Temperatures dove to an estimated average similar to today. Around 180 million years ago, CO2 rocketed up from about 1,200 ppm to 2,500 ppm. And would you believe it? This coincided again with another big temperature dive from 72 degrees to about 61 degrees. Then at the border between the Jurassic period when T. Rex ruled and the Cretaceous period that followed, CO2 levels dropped again, while temperatures soared back to 72 degrees and remained at that level (about 20 degrees higher than now) until long after prodigious populations of dinosaurs became extinct.



Edited on 31-01-2021 00:15
31-01-2021 00:27
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote: ... apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Why should any rational adult believe that?

Let's go with ice cores and fossil records...

Great. Let's go with those.

I hope you are prepared for a rude awakening. I hope you are prepared to find out just how gullible you were in believing conclusions you were ordered to believe without question just because someone said to you "Hey! Didn't you hear me use the words "ice cores" and "fossil record?"

Well, let's get to it. What do you want to discuss about which ice core? What fossil shall we analyze?



* . G . * . U . * . L . * . L . * . I . * . B . * . L . * . E . *


Apparently fossil records reveal that atmospheric CO2 levels around 600 million years ago were about 7,000 parts per million. Then approximately 480 million years ago those levels gradually dropped to 4,000 ppm over about 100 million years, while average temperatures remained at a steady 72 degrees. They then jumped rapidly to 4,500 ppm and guess what! Temperatures dove to an estimated average similar to today. Around 180 million years ago, CO2 rocketed up from about 1,200 ppm to 2,500 ppm. And would you believe it? This coincided again with another big temperature dive from 72 degrees to about 61 degrees. Then at the border between the Jurassic period when T. Rex ruled and the Cretaceous period that followed, CO2 levels dropped again, while temperatures soared back to 72 degrees and remained at that level (about 20 degrees higher than now) until long after prodigious populations of dinosaurs became extinct.


Nothing in the fossil record records temperatures accurately

Not that you can know this as you are brainwashed
31-01-2021 01:04
James___
★★★★★
(4159)
Swan wrote:

Nothing in the fossil record records temperatures accurately

Not that you can know this as you are brainwashed



Umm, there actually is. Isotopes of various molecules will vary according to the temperature. This balance can actually help to know about what the temperature was. You should take some time and read up on science maybe?
31-01-2021 01:07
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(548)
Swan wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Gee apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Then they went extinct. Great point Swan!


Dinosaurs went extinct during a mass extinction event caused by an asteroid impact. However we would be here unless CO2 was dramatically greater in the past as this was environmentally normal.

Why do you ignore this


How do you know it was an asteroid impact that made dinosaurs go extinct?


31-01-2021 01:41
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3195)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote: ... apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Why should any rational adult believe that?

Let's go with ice cores and fossil records...

Great. Let's go with those.

I hope you are prepared for a rude awakening. I hope you are prepared to find out just how gullible you were in believing conclusions you were ordered to believe without question just because someone said to you "Hey! Didn't you hear me use the words "ice cores" and "fossil record?"

Well, let's get to it. What do you want to discuss about which ice core? What fossil shall we analyze?



* . G . * . U . * . L . * . L . * . I . * . B . * . L . * . E . *


Apparently fossil records reveal that atmospheric CO2 levels around 600 million years ago were about 7,000 parts per million. Then approximately 480 million years ago those levels gradually dropped to 4,000 ppm over about 100 million years, while average temperatures remained at a steady 72 degrees. They then jumped rapidly to 4,500 ppm and guess what! Temperatures dove to an estimated average similar to today. Around 180 million years ago, CO2 rocketed up from about 1,200 ppm to 2,500 ppm. And would you believe it? This coincided again with another big temperature dive from 72 degrees to about 61 degrees. Then at the border between the Jurassic period when T. Rex ruled and the Cretaceous period that followed, CO2 levels dropped again, while temperatures soared back to 72 degrees and remained at that level (about 20 degrees higher than now) until long after prodigious populations of dinosaurs became extinct.


Few minor flaws... CO2 is heavier than O2, there would be less O2 near the surface for the critters to breath. OSHA, CDC, claim 5,000 ppm is a lethal level, do to the lack of available O2, least indoor workplaces. Likely doesn't much matter, since you still wouldn't get enough oxygen. 1,200 ppm is consider safe to work in, unassisted.

I do believe there was a great deal more CO2, than today. Those giant lizards, would have had giant appetites as well. The ideal level of CO2 for plants, is around 800 ppm. Never found any maximum level, but the was no noticeable difference, going higher than 800. Greenhouses go with 1200 ppm, safe to work in, and the plants always get all they want, even if somebody left the door open for a while.

We didn't leave a journal, or any records from the dino-days, so it's just guessing, unless somebody has a magic time machine.
31-01-2021 01:47
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3195)
James___ wrote:
Swan wrote:

Nothing in the fossil record records temperatures accurately

Not that you can know this as you are brainwashed



Umm, there actually is. Isotopes of various molecules will vary according to the temperature. This balance can actually help to know about what the temperature was. You should take some time and read up on science maybe?


Hmm... You mean that once god created the isotope, it can never be changed? And isotopes can only be formed by got, so nothing else could have done the trick.

Faith-based 'science' isn't fact, it's best guessing. Only lasts as long as takes, to come up with a better guess.
31-01-2021 01:54
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8625)
Spongy Iris wrote: Apparently fossil records reveal that atmospheric CO2 levels around 600 million years ago were about 7,000 parts per million.

Nope. Fossil records reveal ... fossils.

So which fossil or fossil do you wish to discuss? What fossil(s) were you shown that convinced you to believe that around 600 million years ago atmospheric CO2 levels were around 7,000 parts per million? ... or were you simply bullied into believing something stupid under threat of being called "thtoopid"?

Spongy Iris wrote: Then approximately 480 million years ago ... [boolsch't speculation of the past deleted]


Your wild speculation of the past is colorful. Why should any rational adult believe any of what you are peddling?

Spongy Iris wrote: ... until long after prodigious populations of dinosaurs became extinct.

... or they simply evolved* into the birds that we have today.


* - simply considering the possibility of Darwin's theory within an old earth context.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-01-2021 02:26
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Swan wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Gee apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Then they went extinct. Great point Swan!


Dinosaurs went extinct during a mass extinction event caused by an asteroid impact. However we would be here unless CO2 was dramatically greater in the past as this was environmentally normal.

Why do you ignore this


How do you know it was an asteroid impact that made dinosaurs go extinct?


Why do you question reality?

Do you have other info?

No you do not, you just want to hear yourself babble

So babble on
31-01-2021 02:44
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(548)
Swan wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Swan wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Gee apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Then they went extinct. Great point Swan!


Dinosaurs went extinct during a mass extinction event caused by an asteroid impact. However we would be here unless CO2 was dramatically greater in the past as this was environmentally normal.

Why do you ignore this


How do you know it was an asteroid impact that made dinosaurs go extinct?


Why do you question reality?

Do you have other info?

No you do not, you just want to hear yourself babble

So babble on


I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.


31-01-2021 02:52
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8625)
Spongy Iris wrote:I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.

You are correct. It is just a theory. All speculation about the past is just unfalsifiable theory.

My personal belief is that the dinosaurs are still with us, just having evolved into birds/avians, i.e. they never became "extinct" per se. I cannot prove it; I simply believe it.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-01-2021 02:56
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.

You are correct. It is just a theory. All speculation about the past is just unfalsifiable theory.

My personal belief is that the dinosaurs are still with us, just having evolved into birds/avians, i.e. they never became "extinct" per se. I cannot prove it; I simply believe it.

.


How is your pet T Rex
31-01-2021 04:00
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3195)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.

You are correct. It is just a theory. All speculation about the past is just unfalsifiable theory.

My personal belief is that the dinosaurs are still with us, just having evolved into birds/avians, i.e. they never became "extinct" per se. I cannot prove it; I simply believe it.

.


We still have alligators and crocodiles, both are found in the fossil records... Actually, there are quite a few living fossils. Those were the only reptiles I could pull off the top of my head. We've got some pretty big exotic pets running around loose, which are believed to be breeding, and considered invasive species now. Recently caught on in Miami, that was eat peoples cats, little over 6 feet long. Some sort of Asian water lizard. Probably, another China bio-weapon...
31-01-2021 05:03
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
HarveyH55 wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.

You are correct. It is just a theory. All speculation about the past is just unfalsifiable theory.

My personal belief is that the dinosaurs are still with us, just having evolved into birds/avians, i.e. they never became "extinct" per se. I cannot prove it; I simply believe it.

.


We still have alligators and crocodiles, both are found in the fossil records... Actually, there are quite a few living fossils. Those were the only reptiles I could pull off the top of my head. We've got some pretty big exotic pets running around loose, which are believed to be breeding, and considered invasive species now. Recently caught on in Miami, that was eat peoples cats, little over 6 feet long. Some sort of Asian water lizard. Probably, another China bio-weapon...


LOL mammals did not succeed until t rex vanished

Just a fact
31-01-2021 05:28
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8625)
Swan wrote:LOL mammals did not succeed until t rex vanished. Just a fact

LOL just your belief.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-01-2021 05:33
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
IBdaMann wrote:
Swan wrote:LOL mammals did not succeed until t rex vanished. Just a fact

LOL just your belief.


Nope this is not just my belief. If you believe that this is just my belief

Get help
31-01-2021 05:54
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8625)
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Swan wrote:LOL mammals did not succeed until t rex vanished. Just a fact

LOL just your belief.

Nope this is not just my belief.

Are you saying that it is not your belief? You seem confused.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-01-2021 06:37
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
Swan wrote:

Nothing in the fossil record records temperatures accurately

Not that you can know this as you are brainwashed



Umm, there actually is. Isotopes of various molecules will vary according to the temperature. This balance can actually help to know about what the temperature was. You should take some time and read up on science maybe?


Hmm... You mean that once god created the isotope, it can never be changed? And isotopes can only be formed by got, so nothing else could have done the trick.

Faith-based 'science' isn't fact, it's best guessing. Only lasts as long as takes, to come up with a better guess.


It isn't even science. While all theories begin as circular arguments, including scientific ones, it is the test of falsifiability that takes a theory of science outside the realm of a simple circular argument.

Thus, while a theory of science begins based on faith, just like any theory, a theory of science has a way to test that 'faith'. That fact means the theory is no longer based strictly on faith. It can be assumed to be True, until the theory itself is falsified. Science is only interested in falsifying evidence. Supporting evidence is not used in science.

Only religions use supporting evidence.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
31-01-2021 06:40
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
Swan wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Swan wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Gee apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Then they went extinct. Great point Swan!


Dinosaurs went extinct during a mass extinction event caused by an asteroid impact. However we would be here unless CO2 was dramatically greater in the past as this was environmentally normal.

Why do you ignore this


How do you know it was an asteroid impact that made dinosaurs go extinct?


Why do you question reality?

Do you have other info?

No you do not, you just want to hear yourself babble

So babble on


Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism). Buzzword fallacy (learn how 'real' and 'reality' are actually defined). Prosecutior's fallacy. Argument of the stone fallacy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
31-01-2021 06:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Swan wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Swan wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Gee apparently dinosaurs got the atmospheric concentration of CO2 much higher than today's humans and animals.

Then they went extinct. Great point Swan!


Dinosaurs went extinct during a mass extinction event caused by an asteroid impact. However we would be here unless CO2 was dramatically greater in the past as this was environmentally normal.

Why do you ignore this


How do you know it was an asteroid impact that made dinosaurs go extinct?


Why do you question reality?

Do you have other info?

No you do not, you just want to hear yourself babble

So babble on


I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.


Correct. It is a theory, and not even a scientific one.

Science has no theories about past unobserved events. They are not falsifiable.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
31-01-2021 08:17
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1017)
I have lived and worked in the outback of west australia.The dinosaurs are still here just a bit smaller.One of my favorites is the bicycle dragon Ctenophorus scutulatus they move around like a normal 4 legged lizard then all of a sudden get up on their back legs and take of at a bazillion MPH.I have seen them run across the swimming pool at the van park.We have a lot of different monitors as well that get up around the 4 foot mark
31-01-2021 09:00
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8625)
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.

You are correct. It is just a theory. All speculation about the past is just unfalsifiable theory.

My personal belief is that the dinosaurs are still with us, just having evolved into birds/avians, i.e. they never became "extinct" per se. I cannot prove it; I simply believe it.

.


How is your pet T Rex

A little smaller these days. I don't know if it's because of his diet but he's definitely tipping the scales at a lighter weight.



.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-01-2021 09:53
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1017)
Nice work IBDM
31-01-2021 16:31
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
IBdaMann wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.

You are correct. It is just a theory. All speculation about the past is just unfalsifiable theory.

My personal belief is that the dinosaurs are still with us, just having evolved into birds/avians, i.e. they never became "extinct" per se. I cannot prove it; I simply believe it.

.


How is your pet T Rex

A little smaller these days. I don't know if it's because of his diet but he's definitely tipping the scales at a lighter weight.



.


LOL how did Noah catch hawks by the way? Also you need to figure out if you really believe that birds evolved from dinosaurs because Noah God and evolution can not coexist.

So you do not know what you believe
31-01-2021 16:44
James___
★★★★★
(4159)
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.

You are correct. It is just a theory. All speculation about the past is just unfalsifiable theory.

My personal belief is that the dinosaurs are still with us, just having evolved into birds/avians, i.e. they never became "extinct" per se. I cannot prove it; I simply believe it.

.


How is your pet T Rex

A little smaller these days. I don't know if it's because of his diet but he's definitely tipping the scales at a lighter weight.



.


LOL how did Noah catch hawks by the way? Also you need to figure out if you really believe that birds evolved from dinosaurs because Noah God and evolution can not coexist.

So you do not know what you believe



Noah's flood might've been huge lakes in glaciers creating a deluge. If you consider that's how both the English Channel and the Great Lakes are believed to have formed, that's a lotttttttttttt of water.
31-01-2021 16:46
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
James___ wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.

You are correct. It is just a theory. All speculation about the past is just unfalsifiable theory.

My personal belief is that the dinosaurs are still with us, just having evolved into birds/avians, i.e. they never became "extinct" per se. I cannot prove it; I simply believe it.

.


How is your pet T Rex

A little smaller these days. I don't know if it's because of his diet but he's definitely tipping the scales at a lighter weight.



.


LOL how did Noah catch hawks by the way? Also you need to figure out if you really believe that birds evolved from dinosaurs because Noah God and evolution can not coexist.

So you do not know what you believe



Noah's flood might've been huge lakes in glaciers creating a deluge. If you consider that's how both the English Channel and the Great Lakes are believed to have formed, that's a lotttttttttttt of water.


Sorry kid there is no physical way that a glacial lake could have flooded the Earth covering all mountains.

Math issue here, not that you will ever know
31-01-2021 21:00
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(548)
IBdaMann wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.

You are correct. It is just a theory. All speculation about the past is just unfalsifiable theory.

My personal belief is that the dinosaurs are still with us, just having evolved into birds/avians, i.e. they never became "extinct" per se. I cannot prove it; I simply believe it.

.


How is your pet T Rex

A little smaller these days. I don't know if it's because of his diet but he's definitely tipping the scales at a lighter weight.



.


Cheers from your friend Hawk Eye.




31-01-2021 21:20
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I've never heard anybody say an asteroid which caused disonaur extinction was reality, Just a theory.

You are correct. It is just a theory. All speculation about the past is just unfalsifiable theory.

My personal belief is that the dinosaurs are still with us, just having evolved into birds/avians, i.e. they never became "extinct" per se. I cannot prove it; I simply believe it.

.


How is your pet T Rex

A little smaller these days. I don't know if it's because of his diet but he's definitely tipping the scales at a lighter weight.



.


Cheers from your friend Hawk Eye.



Hawks are just not dinosaurs kid. If they are descended from dinosaurs so what? The age of dino's ended abruptly
31-01-2021 21:25
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(8625)
Swan wrote:Hawks are just not dinosaurs kid. If they are descended from dinosaurs so what? The age of dino's ended abruptly

Why should any rational adult believe your WACKY dogma?




.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
31-01-2021 21:31
James___
★★★★★
(4159)
IBdaMann wrote:
Swan wrote:Hawks are just not dinosaurs kid. If they are descended from dinosaurs so what? The age of dino's ended abruptly

Why should any rational adult believe your WACKY dogma?




.



It's been observed that some species have pygmies. They think habitat has something to do with it. I just don't see it.

https://ddeiserborneopygmyelephant.wordpress.com/general-information/
Edited on 31-01-2021 21:33
31-01-2021 22:09
SwanProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(395)
IBdaMann wrote:
Swan wrote:Hawks are just not dinosaurs kid. If they are descended from dinosaurs so what? The age of dino's ended abruptly

Why should any rational adult believe your WACKY dogma?




.


LOL Birds are warm blooded and reptiles are cold blooded

Just a fact that simpletons refuse to accept
01-02-2021 00:10
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15054)
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Swan wrote:Hawks are just not dinosaurs kid. If they are descended from dinosaurs so what? The age of dino's ended abruptly

Why should any rational adult believe your WACKY dogma?




.


LOL Birds are warm blooded and reptiles are cold blooded

Just a fact that simpletons refuse to accept


Why do you assume that all dinosaurs were cold blooded?

Personally, I take this as an insult to warm blooded dinosaurs.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
Edited on 01-02-2021 00:11
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