High temp

keepit wrote:
Bill Gates' sponsored company Heliogen announced a breakthrough in harnessing the sun's energy to produce a much higher temperatures than before. Apparently this will allow the production of cement and steel without using fossil fuels. They're doing it by using special computers to more accurately (and more efficiently) aim solar panels so as to achieve the greater temps.

keepit wrote:
Bill Gates' sponsored company Heliogen announced a breakthrough in harnessing the sun's energy to produce a much higher temperatures than before. Apparently this will allow the production of cement and steel without using fossil fuels. They're doing it by using special computers to more accurately (and more efficiently) aim solar panels so as to achieve the greater temps.

keepit wrote:...Heliogen announced a breakthrough....

tmiddles wrote:

keepit wrote:...Heliogen announced a breakthrough....

Wow!! This is really great:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/business/heliogen-solar-energy-bill-gates/index.html

1000C so that the heat can be directly used to make cement, melt steel!

Hooray for science!!! I'm so glad it's not just a bunch of platitudes.

So it sounds like the badass bit is not having the mirror just catch the sun but getting the reflected beams precisely aligned.

James___ wrote: A special computer? Any pc should be able to run tracking software. I've done some cnc programming and an old 486 can do that. All you have is an x and a y axial tilt. The Sun's movement across the sky is well known. A special computer sounds like more money for Microsoft. Heck, NASA on its JPL website gives out that information for free.

IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: A special computer? Any pc should be able to run tracking software. I've done some cnc programming and an old 486 can do that. All you have is an x and a y axial tilt. The Sun's movement across the sky is well known. A special computer sounds like more money for Microsoft. Heck, NASA on its JPL website gives out that information for free.

James__, by "special computer" they mean it has lots of cute hexagon stickers.



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IBdaMann wrote:

James___ wrote: A special computer? Any pc should be able to run tracking software. I've done some cnc programming and an old 486 can do that. All you have is an x and a y axial tilt. The Sun's movement across the sky is well known. A special computer sounds like more money for Microsoft. Heck, NASA on its JPL website gives out that information for free.

James__, by "special computer" they mean it has lots of cute hexagon stickers.



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keepit wrote:
Bill Gates' sponsored company Heliogen announced a breakthrough in harnessing the sun's energy to produce a much higher temperatures than before. Apparently this will allow the production of cement and steel without using fossil fuels. They're doing it by using special computers to more accurately (and more efficiently) aim solar panels so as to achieve the greater temps.

tmiddles wrote:

keepit wrote:...Heliogen announced a breakthrough....

Wow!! This is really great:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/business/heliogen-solar-energy-bill-gates/index.html

1000C so that the heat can be directly used to make cement, melt steel!

Hooray for science!!! I'm so glad it's not just a bunch of platitudes.

So it sounds like the badass bit is not having the mirror just catch the sun but getting the reflected beams precisely aligned.

James___ wrote:

tmiddles wrote:

keepit wrote:...Heliogen announced a breakthrough....

Wow!! This is really great:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/19/business/heliogen-solar-energy-bill-gates/index.html

1000C so that the heat can be directly used to make cement, melt steel!

Hooray for science!!! I'm so glad it's not just a bunch of platitudes.

So it sounds like the badass bit is not having the mirror just catch the sun but getting the reflected beams precisely aligned.

It's not a new idea.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_plants_in_the_Mojave_Desert

James___ wrote:

keepit wrote:
Bill Gates' sponsored company Heliogen announced a breakthrough in harnessing the sun's energy to produce a much higher temperatures than before. Apparently this will allow the production of cement and steel without using fossil fuels. They're doing it by using special computers to more accurately (and more efficiently) aim solar panels so as to achieve the greater temps.

A special computer? Any pc should be able to run tracking software. I've done some cnc programming and an old 486 can do that. All you have is an x and a y axial tilt. The Sun's movement across the sky is well known. A special computer sounds like more money for Microsoft. Heck, NASA on its JPL website gives out that information for free.

HarveyH55 wrote:

James___ wrote:

keepit wrote:
Bill Gates' sponsored company Heliogen announced a breakthrough in harnessing the sun's energy to produce a much higher temperatures than before. Apparently this will allow the production of cement and steel without using fossil fuels. They're doing it by using special computers to more accurately (and more efficiently) aim solar panels so as to achieve the greater temps.

A special computer? Any pc should be able to run tracking software. I've done some cnc programming and an old 486 can do that. All you have is an x and a y axial tilt. The Sun's movement across the sky is well known. A special computer sounds like more money for Microsoft. Heck, NASA on its JPL website gives out that information for free.

Really? must of been a few years ago... Most 3d printers use an Arduino, which is just microcontroller and a few support parts. Pretty much anything CNC I've looked into uses a microcontroller, since it only needs to read G-Code of a SD card, or talk to a host computer, and handle sensors and stepper motors for hardware.

This aiming mirrors scheme was proven impractical years ago, works occasionally, under ideal conditions, but most of the time it's useless. They proved it could actually be done, but that was the only value in it, huge was of time and money.

James___ wrote: It's not a new idea.

HarveyH55 wrote:...They proved it could actually be done, ...huge was of time and money.

James___ wrote:

HarveyH55 wrote:

James___ wrote:

keepit wrote:
Bill Gates' sponsored company Heliogen announced a breakthrough in harnessing the sun's energy to produce a much higher temperatures than before. Apparently this will allow the production of cement and steel without using fossil fuels. They're doing it by using special computers to more accurately (and more efficiently) aim solar panels so as to achieve the greater temps.

A special computer? Any pc should be able to run tracking software. I've done some cnc programming and an old 486 can do that. All you have is an x and a y axial tilt. The Sun's movement across the sky is well known. A special computer sounds like more money for Microsoft. Heck, NASA on its JPL website gives out that information for free.

Really? must of been a few years ago... Most 3d printers use an Arduino, which is just microcontroller and a few support parts. Pretty much anything CNC I've looked into uses a microcontroller, since it only needs to read G-Code of a SD card, or talk to a host computer, and handle sensors and stepper motors for hardware.

This aiming mirrors scheme was proven impractical years ago, works occasionally, under ideal conditions, but most of the time it's useless. They proved it could actually be done, but that was the only value in it, huge was of time and money.

This can give someone the Earth's and Moon's position, axial tilt, etc. Then [url] https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/horizons.cgi[/url]

And with this, sunrise and sunset for your residence if you want. With reflecting sunlight, having a solar panel cycle its movement, the orientation for greatest solar radiation will be known.
[url] https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/[/url]

When they say "special computers" it sounds like an Apple monitor stand.
The Pro Stand, $999, is said by Apple to have 'an intricately engineered arm.'
Twitter user Aidan Lynch wrote in a tweet: "The pro stand costing more than most laptops and phones outside of Apple's realm is the ultimate middle finger to any consumer that is seriously considering their machine. Every new device Apple has released in the last year is a cash grab in exchange for no new functionality."
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/05/tech/apple-monitor-expensive-intl-scli/index.html

Most people don't understand that the precisely shaped mirrors are extremely expensive. Yet Bill Gates says it's computers that make it a groundbreaking ideal that will save the world.

tmiddles wrote:

James___ wrote: It's not a new idea.

James this isn't to make electricity it's to use the heat directly! Making cement uses a tremendous amount of heat. So this technology is based on using solar heat directly to reduce the amount you have to generate.

HarveyH55 wrote:...They proved it could actually be done, ...huge was of time and money.

I'm sure someone said this every time a new technology poked it's beak out of the egg.

Into the Night wrote:
Temperatures in a cement plant must be precisely controlled.

tmiddles wrote:

James___ wrote: It's not a new idea.

James this isn't to make electricity it's to use the heat directly! Making cement uses a tremendous amount of heat. So this technology is based on using solar heat directly to reduce the amount you have to generate.

HarveyH55 wrote:...They proved it could actually be done, ...huge was of time and money.

I'm sure someone said this every time a new technology poked it's beak out of the egg.

tmiddles wrote:

James___ wrote: It's not a new idea.

James this isn't to make electricity it's to use the heat directly! Making cement uses a tremendous amount of heat. So this technology is based on using solar heat directly to reduce the amount you have to generate.

HarveyH55 wrote:...They proved it could actually be done, ...huge was of time and money.

I'm sure someone said this every time a new technology poked it's beak out of the egg.

James___ wrote:...How many w/m^2 to raise the temperature how much?...creating an aquifer up in the Rockies makes more sense....generating electricity.

HarveyH55 wrote:They proved it could work, but it's just not worth the effort and expense.

tmiddles wrote:

James___ wrote:...How many w/m^2 to raise the temperature how much?...creating an aquifer up in the Rockies makes more sense....generating electricity.

This is address use of energy for heat in industrial processing. It's also not mutually exclusive with other solutions.

You take sun light and convert it to heat directly! That's smart.

I remember when solar first came on the scene the only thing they had going that was effective were the black, stupid simple, rook solar heaters so that your home water heater didn't need to use as much energy.

Same idea here.

HarveyH55 wrote:They proved it could work, but it's just not worth the effort and expense.

Solar power to generate even electricity works now and is worth the effort and expense.

Use solar power to generate heat is far less complex.

I do recall being severely annoyed as a cub scout once when someone was trying to cook a hot dog with some tin foil solar oven.

Into the Night wrote:

tmiddles wrote: Solar power to generate even electricity works now ...

It is one of the most expensive forms of energy, joule for joule. It is not free.

tmiddles wrote:Cost is not the only consideration

tmiddles wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

tmiddles wrote: Solar power to generate even electricity works now ...

It is one of the most expensive forms of energy, joule for joule. It is not free.

It's often the best option. Cost is not the only consideration and cost per KW is based on a big plant vs a big plant. Solar is great because you can use it in places where nothing else is an option.

I bet you even have those solar powered garden lights on the stakes. You strike me as that guy.

tmiddles wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

tmiddles wrote: Solar power to generate even electricity works now ...

It is one of the most expensive forms of energy, joule for joule. It is not free.

It's often the best option. Cost is not the only consideration and cost per KW is based on a big plant vs a big plant. Solar is great because you can use it in places where nothing else is an option.

I bet you even have those solar powered garden lights on the stakes. You strike me as that guy.

HarveyH55 wrote:

tmiddles wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

tmiddles wrote: Solar power to generate even electricity works now ...

It is one of the most expensive forms of energy, joule for joule. It is not free.

It's often the best option. Cost is not the only consideration and cost per KW is based on a big plant vs a big plant. Solar is great because you can use it in places where nothing else is an option.

I bet you even have those solar powered garden lights on the stakes. You strike me as that guy.

Solar farms produce 1 MW per 4 acres. To replace a small, 100 MW gas power plant you need 400 acres. Quite a spread of land. The gas plant takes up 2.6 acres. I don't know how to do a real comparison though. Solar only produces on sunny days, where gas doesn't matter, 24/7, except for maintenance. Tough to squeeze those kind of details out of Google. I've got a strong suspicion, that the year average isn't too impressive for solar.

Into the Night wrote:

tmiddles wrote:

James___ wrote:...How many w/m^2 to raise the temperature how much?...creating an aquifer up in the Rockies makes more sense....generating electricity.

This is address use of energy for heat in industrial processing. It's also not mutually exclusive with other solutions.

You take sun light and convert it to heat directly! That's smart.

I remember when solar first came on the scene the only thing they had going that was effective were the black, stupid simple, rook solar heaters so that your home water heater didn't need to use as much energy.

Same idea here.

HarveyH55 wrote:They proved it could work, but it's just not worth the effort and expense.

Solar power to generate even electricity works now and is worth the effort and expense.

Use solar power to generate heat is far less complex.

I do recall being severely annoyed as a cub scout once when someone was trying to cook a hot dog with some tin foil solar oven.

It is one of the most expensive forms of energy, joule for joule. It is not free.