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Fossil fuels06-03-2021 22:42
joseph369
☆☆☆☆☆
(8)
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.
07-03-2021 00:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.


We don't burn fossils for fuel. Fossils don't burn.

What makes you think ice ages even happen at all? It's certainly not any theory of science.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 07-03-2021 00:09
07-03-2021 00:29
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(759)
Into the Night wrote:
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.


We don't burn fossils for fuel. Fossils don't burn.

What makes you think ice ages even happen at all? It's certainly not any theory of science.


Sheesh dude... Because the obliquity is decreasing.

Today, on March 6, 2021 at noon, Earth's axial tilt, or mean obliquity was 23.43652°.

Earth's mean obliquity today is about 0.00001° less than 30 days ago.

Earth's axial tilt is said to oscillate between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees every 41000 years.

It looks like the nicest weather was about 11000 years ago, and coolest weather in 10000 years




Edited on 07-03-2021 01:05
07-03-2021 00:58
SwanProfile picture★★★☆☆
(571)
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.


There is no way to predict the next ice age or if there will be one. Furthermore temps could drop by 1 degree every ten thousand years and no human would be able to notice as the Earth does not keep our schedule
07-03-2021 03:23
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9937)
joseph369 wrote: Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum

What the F is a "climate optimum"? I need an unambiguous definition.

joseph369 wrote: ... and are heading into the next ice age ...[?quote]
Convince me we are heading into an ice age.

[quote]joseph369 wrote:... it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand.

What are those? As far as I know fossils don't burn.

joseph369 wrote: The question is, how long will they last

Fuel lasts until you burn it and then it's not fuel anymore.

joseph369 wrote: A few hundred years maybe?

For how long will the earth have geological activity?

joseph369 wrote: One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.

This is where you start to explain all of your, ... your, ... well, it all appears to be hooey.

Well, get to it.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-03-2021 03:36
joseph369
☆☆☆☆☆
(8)
I'm just going by the last 400,000 years of ice core data. True, it might not happen again, but if it does i think we're going to consume all of earth's fossil fuels just to keep warm.
07-03-2021 03:46
James___
★★★★★
(4992)
Swan wrote:
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.


There is no way to predict the next ice age or if there will be one. Furthermore temps could drop by 1 degree every ten thousand years and no human would be able to notice as the Earth does not keep our schedule



LMAO

There will be another one. This is where understanding momentum and the moment of inertia helps. It really doesn't matter to us any way, we'll be dead. Of course if old people like you had kids and they had kids, then in another 200 years it will most likely be cooler than it is today.
If you ever considered previous ice ages, 3 out of the last 4 had a spike in temperature. And then a slow decline into a cooler and cooler climate. As far as the Earth goes, since about 1940, we've probably been living in the "Golden Age". Ever since the holocene climate optimum, the duration of the warm periods seem to have decreased. And geologically speaking, inter-glacial periods usually end about now any way. And that will take time to become obvious.
Attached image:


Edited on 07-03-2021 03:59
07-03-2021 04:17
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9937)
joseph369 wrote: I'm just going by the last 400,000 years of ice core data.

Connect the dots for me. I have seen lots of ice core data and none of it is any good at predicting the future of anything in any way.

So ... is that the entire basis for your WACKY belief? Why should any rational adult believe as you do?

joseph369 wrote: True, it might not happen again, ...

It might never have ever happened in the first place. Your whole premise for this thread is your belief of an impending ice age. You should probably explain why a rational adult should believe your premise before you simply waste the bandwidth involved in posting a load of drivel.

Is there any reason a rational person should not simply ignore your thread entirely?

joseph369 wrote: ... but if it does i think we're going to consume all of earth's fossil fuels just to keep warm.

What are these fossil fuels? We don't burn fossils for fuel. Could you at least extend to this board the courtesy of specifying about which you are speaking?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-03-2021 04:26
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9937)
James___ wrote:LMAO

LOL LOL ... Yawn. LOL



LOL.


Yawn.


James___ wrote: There will be another one.

What makes you think there were ever any in the first place? Are you thinking that because Norway has snow that the rest of the planet will all rush to be just like Norway all at once? Is Norway going to start exporting its ice globally? Will Norway be producing this impending ice age?



.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-03-2021 04:50
James___
★★★★★
(4992)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:LMAO

LOL LOL ... Yawn. LOL



LOL.


Yawn.


James___ wrote: There will be another one.

What makes you think there were ever any in the first place? Are you thinking that because Norway has snow that the rest of the planet will all rush to be just like Norway all at once? Is Norway going to start exporting its ice globally? Will Norway be producing this impending ice age?



.



3 of the 5 Great Lakes in North America were carved out by the last ice age. I think it's actually all 5. This allows for 2 causes of how the melting of the glaciers changed the landscape. Myself, it could be after repeated ice ages and we only notice the effects of the last one. This is getting into their geology. With lakes Superior and Ontario, there was a different reason for their existence.
With lakes Michigan, Huron and Erie, they sit atop of bedrock that is quite hard. What helps to date Lake Erie is the rate that Niagara Falls is moving upstream.
Son, this is all basic information that every true American knows, where did I go wrong with you?

I'll clue you in. I thought that I taught you better. And yet you don't know the geology of North America.


p.s., with lakes Superior and Ontario, ancient fault lines. This allowed for earthen material to be easily washed away.
Attached image:


Edited on 07-03-2021 04:56
07-03-2021 05:16
James___
★★★★★
(4992)
And son, this is the video that explains it. And they explain how the rate of erosion for Niagara Falls allows for it to be about 12,000 years old while leaving a debris field of the denser rock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wztD2yxuyhI

If I were a better father, you would've watched this with me. Instead you made a stupid mistake.


p.s., if ya'alls want to know what I'm talking about, just watch the video.



p.s.s., if Niagara Falls is only 12,000 years old, does that really date the Great Lakes or only those falls?
Edited on 07-03-2021 05:34
07-03-2021 05:46
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9937)
James___ wrote: 3 of the 5 Great Lakes in North America were carved out by the last ice age.

... and you believe this because it was recorded on video, yes? ... or did you simply take a stroll in your time machine?

James___ wrote:This is getting into their geology.

Nope. This is purely speculation of the past.

James___ wrote: This allowed for earthen material to be easily washed away.

Actually, everything on the planet allowed for it. There wasn't a single thing on the planet that prevented the washed away earthen material from being washed away.

When the day comes that you expire, I'm going to have written on your gravestone that the last ice age allowed for your passing.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-03-2021 19:24
James___
★★★★★
(4992)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote: 3 of the 5 Great Lakes in North America were carved out by the last ice age.

... and you believe this because it was recorded on video, yes? ... or did you simply take a stroll in your time machine?

James___ wrote:This is getting into their geology.

Nope. This is purely speculation of the past.

James___ wrote: This allowed for earthen material to be easily washed away.

Actually, everything on the planet allowed for it. There wasn't a single thing on the planet that prevented the washed away earthen material from being washed away.

When the day comes that you expire, I'm going to have written on your gravestone that the last ice age allowed for your passing.


.



You just don't see how tectonic plate depression and ice flows (glacial movement), even over a few ice ages could shape such features? They show where Lake Michigan is becoming shallower.
This is because as the North American tectonic plate rises, the lake becomes a little larger on the surface. Of course with over 20 million people being supplied water from Lake Michigan, maybe it's becoming another Aral Sea?
Attached image:

08-03-2021 03:10
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.


We don't burn fossils for fuel. Fossils don't burn.

What makes you think ice ages even happen at all? It's certainly not any theory of science.


Sheesh dude... Because the obliquity is decreasing.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Today, on March 6, 2021 at noon, Earth's axial tilt, or mean obliquity was 23.43652°.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Earth's mean obliquity today is about 0.00001° less than 30 days ago.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Earth's axial tilt is said to oscillate between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees every 41000 years.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
It looks like the nicest weather was about 11000 years ago, and coolest weather in 10000 years


How do you know? Were you there?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
08-03-2021 03:13
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
joseph369 wrote:
I'm just going by the last 400,000 years of ice core data.

So you are speculating.
joseph369 wrote:
True, it might not happen again,

Did it ever happen?
joseph369 wrote:
but if it does i think we're going to consume all of earth's fossil fuels just to keep warm.

Fossils don't burn. We don't use them for fuel.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
08-03-2021 03:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:LMAO

LOL LOL ... Yawn. LOL



LOL.


Yawn.


James___ wrote: There will be another one.

What makes you think there were ever any in the first place? Are you thinking that because Norway has snow that the rest of the planet will all rush to be just like Norway all at once? Is Norway going to start exporting its ice globally? Will Norway be producing this impending ice age?



.



3 of the 5 Great Lakes in North America were carved out by the last ice age. I think it's actually all 5. This allows for 2 causes of how the melting of the glaciers changed the landscape. Myself, it could be after repeated ice ages and we only notice the effects of the last one. This is getting into their geology. With lakes Superior and Ontario, there was a different reason for their existence.
With lakes Michigan, Huron and Erie, they sit atop of bedrock that is quite hard. What helps to date Lake Erie is the rate that Niagara Falls is moving upstream.
Son, this is all basic information that every true American knows, where did I go wrong with you?

I'll clue you in. I thought that I taught you better. And yet you don't know the geology of North America.


p.s., with lakes Superior and Ontario, ancient fault lines. This allowed for earthen material to be easily washed away.


You seem to be claiming all sorts of things from 40,000 years ago. I know were aren't that old. You are speculating.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
08-03-2021 17:14
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(2452)
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum...

Thank you for providing me with yet another entry for the Lispy Leftist List of Linguistic Lunacy.

This list that I started up about a month ago has surely grown to be quite long already due to how commonplace such meaningless babble is.
08-03-2021 18:28
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9937)
gfm7175 wrote:
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum...

Thank you for providing me with yet another entry for the Lispy Leftist List of Linguistic Lunacy.

This list that I started up about a month ago has surely grown to be quite long already due to how commonplace such meaningless babble is.

There is no end in sight.

I wonder if you will have a special list of names of key dead people that are thrown around as "trump card" buzzwords, e.g. Svante Arrhenius, John Tyndall, etc. because they "understood" [insert dogma in question] and were far smarter than you or I, although being unavailable to be cross-examined.

After all, Greenhouse Effect was understood and explained in the late 1800s. There is no debate, it's just a question of what the impact will be.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_Arrhenius




.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
08-03-2021 18:37
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(2452)
IBdaMann wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum...

Thank you for providing me with yet another entry for the Lispy Leftist List of Linguistic Lunacy.

This list that I started up about a month ago has surely grown to be quite long already due to how commonplace such meaningless babble is.

There is no end in sight.

I wonder if you will have a special list of names of key dead people that are thrown around as "trump card" buzzwords, e.g. Svante Arrhenius, John Tyndall, etc. because they "understood" [insert dogma in question] and were far smarter than you or I, although being unavailable to be cross-examined.

After all, Greenhouse Effect was understood and explained in the late 1800s. There is no debate, it's just a question of what the impact will be.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_Arrhenius


.

That would make for an interesting list as well.
08-03-2021 21:36
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(759)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.


We don't burn fossils for fuel. Fossils don't burn.

What makes you think ice ages even happen at all? It's certainly not any theory of science.


Sheesh dude... Because the obliquity is decreasing.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Today, on March 6, 2021 at noon, Earth's axial tilt, or mean obliquity was 23.43652°.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Earth's mean obliquity today is about 0.00001° less than 30 days ago.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Earth's axial tilt is said to oscillate between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees every 41000 years.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
It looks like the nicest weather was about 11000 years ago, and coolest weather in 10000 years


How do you know? Were you there?


The greater Earth's axial tilt angle, the more extreme our seasons are, as each hemisphere receives more solar radiation during its summer, when the hemisphere is tilted toward the Sun, and less during winter, when it is tilted away. Larger tilt angles favor periods of deglaciation.

There is also the orbital eccentricity cycle, the 100,000 year cycle of which lines up to how often scientists think ice ages have happened in the past 800,000 years.

In about 100,000 years, Earth will be further away from the Sun much of the year because the orbit will be less circular and more oval.



Edited on 08-03-2021 21:41
08-03-2021 22:32
James___
★★★★★
(4992)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:LMAO

LOL LOL ... Yawn. LOL



LOL.


Yawn.


James___ wrote: There will be another one.

What makes you think there were ever any in the first place? Are you thinking that because Norway has snow that the rest of the planet will all rush to be just like Norway all at once? Is Norway going to start exporting its ice globally? Will Norway be producing this impending ice age?



.



3 of the 5 Great Lakes in North America were carved out by the last ice age. I think it's actually all 5. This allows for 2 causes of how the melting of the glaciers changed the landscape. Myself, it could be after repeated ice ages and we only notice the effects of the last one. This is getting into their geology. With lakes Superior and Ontario, there was a different reason for their existence.
With lakes Michigan, Huron and Erie, they sit atop of bedrock that is quite hard. What helps to date Lake Erie is the rate that Niagara Falls is moving upstream.
Son, this is all basic information that every true American knows, where did I go wrong with you?

I'll clue you in. I thought that I taught you better. And yet you don't know the geology of North America.


p.s., with lakes Superior and Ontario, ancient fault lines. This allowed for earthen material to be easily washed away.


You seem to be claiming all sorts of things from 40,000 years ago. I know were aren't that old. You are speculating.



It's better to have a thought than to have none at all.
09-03-2021 00:46
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9937)
James___ wrote:It's better to have a thought than to have none at all.

No James__, it's better to be paying attention than it is to be daydreaming when reality is giving the lecture.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
09-03-2021 03:13
SwanProfile picture★★★☆☆
(571)
James___ wrote:
Swan wrote:
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.


There is no way to predict the next ice age or if there will be one. Furthermore temps could drop by 1 degree every ten thousand years and no human would be able to notice as the Earth does not keep our schedule



LMAO

There will be another one. This is where understanding momentum and the moment of inertia helps. It really doesn't matter to us any way, we'll be dead. Of course if old people like you had kids and they had kids, then in another 200 years it will most likely be cooler than it is today.
If you ever considered previous ice ages, 3 out of the last 4 had a spike in temperature. And then a slow decline into a cooler and cooler climate. As far as the Earth goes, since about 1940, we've probably been living in the "Golden Age". Ever since the holocene climate optimum, the duration of the warm periods seem to have decreased. And geologically speaking, inter-glacial periods usually end about now any way. And that will take time to become obvious.


Dude you can't predict the weather next year but you can predict the future at will

Take your pills
09-03-2021 05:21
James___
★★★★★
(4992)
Swan wrote:
James___ wrote:
Swan wrote:
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.


There is no way to predict the next ice age or if there will be one. Furthermore temps could drop by 1 degree every ten thousand years and no human would be able to notice as the Earth does not keep our schedule



LMAO

There will be another one. This is where understanding momentum and the moment of inertia helps. It really doesn't matter to us any way, we'll be dead. Of course if old people like you had kids and they had kids, then in another 200 years it will most likely be cooler than it is today.
If you ever considered previous ice ages, 3 out of the last 4 had a spike in temperature. And then a slow decline into a cooler and cooler climate. As far as the Earth goes, since about 1940, we've probably been living in the "Golden Age". Ever since the holocene climate optimum, the duration of the warm periods seem to have decreased. And geologically speaking, inter-glacial periods usually end about now any way. And that will take time to become obvious.


Dude you can't predict the weather next year but you can predict the future at will

Take your pills




Saying that another cool period will happen is only acknowledging what history has taught us.
09-03-2021 06:19
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9937)
James___ wrote:Saying that another cool period will happen is only acknowledging what history has taught us.

What time period are you claiming this "history" covers?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
09-03-2021 06:49
James___
★★★★★
(4992)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:Saying that another cool period will happen is only acknowledging what history has taught us.

What time period are you claiming this "history" covers?

.



It's interesting that with the internet about all you guys can do is say millions of years ago. You guys need to take some time to learn a little about history. Yet it never happened so there you go.
09-03-2021 08:15
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3617)
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:Saying that another cool period will happen is only acknowledging what history has taught us.

What time period are you claiming this "history" covers?

.



It's interesting that with the internet about all you guys can do is say millions of years ago. You guys need to take some time to learn a little about history. Yet it never happened so there you go.


'History', I've found, isn't entirely factual, or complete. People tend to record event, as they interpret, or how they wish them to be remembered. Events that happened, before the historian was born, isn't history, it's purely speculation, about what might have happened, a fiction, not facts. O like reading about science. I also enjoy reading science fiction. Maybe that's how I'm able to keep the two separate. There is nothing wrong, with a scientist, engaging in fictional writing. There would be no innovations, if there was no imagination. Some people just like the fiction written, to the scientist, who wrote it, and believe it to be true and factual. After all, a scientist, has no imagination, and couldn't possibly write fiction.
09-03-2021 13:23
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1350)
I would like to go back a step and confirm that oil comes out the ground?I am sure some hillbilly was shooting at some food and up out the ground came some bubbling crude.I had a young man ask me once why I called the wallphone the landline and its because we now have mobiles but the work phone was connected by wires.My Dad still calls the radio the wireless.If we find oil on Mars will that be called space oil and the local stuff Earth oil.Crude is processed into various oils and fuels by heating and heavy oils are drawn from the base and as the tower cools petrol and gasses are drawn from the top.I have done work at B.P. Kwinana and seen how this is done.Its all fuel.A lot off crude was formed a long time ago by decomposing flora and fauna that does not exist anymore so to colloquially call it fossil fuel is not that outrageous.I filled up with petrol today and if I said to the attendant I wish you to pay for the hydrocarbons I have filled up with she would think I was from Mars where as because of my true love for Pete and furniture I would rather be from Uranus.
09-03-2021 17:21
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9937)
duncan61 wrote:A lot off crude was formed a long time ago by decomposing flora and fauna

Why should any rational adult believe that?

Absolutely no living thing that dies ever decays into petroleum. Graveyards are not universally being eyed by Big Oil for drilling. When a court orders a body exhumed for some investigation, no crude oil is discovered upon opening the casket.

From our understanding of the Fischer-Tropsch process, hydrocarbons require intense heat and pressure to form. There is no intense heat and pressure in the fossil record ... deep in the earth's crust and mantle, yes but certainly not up near the surface where life lives. Archaeological sites are not knee-deep in oil.

So what are you talking about?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
09-03-2021 19:39
SwanProfile picture★★★☆☆
(571)
James___ wrote:
Swan wrote:
James___ wrote:
Swan wrote:
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.


There is no way to predict the next ice age or if there will be one. Furthermore temps could drop by 1 degree every ten thousand years and no human would be able to notice as the Earth does not keep our schedule



LMAO

There will be another one. This is where understanding momentum and the moment of inertia helps. It really doesn't matter to us any way, we'll be dead. Of course if old people like you had kids and they had kids, then in another 200 years it will most likely be cooler than it is today.
If you ever considered previous ice ages, 3 out of the last 4 had a spike in temperature. And then a slow decline into a cooler and cooler climate. As far as the Earth goes, since about 1940, we've probably been living in the "Golden Age". Ever since the holocene climate optimum, the duration of the warm periods seem to have decreased. And geologically speaking, inter-glacial periods usually end about now any way. And that will take time to become obvious.


Dude you can't predict the weather next year but you can predict the future at will

Take your pills




Saying that another cool period will happen is only acknowledging what history has taught us.


What if it is cool now and getting hotter
09-03-2021 21:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
joseph369 wrote:
Now that we have passed the holocene climate optimum and are heading into the next ice age it occurred to me that it's a good thing we have all these fossil fuels on hand. The question is, how long will they last as global temperatures drop by 10C and people start freezing their butts off? A few hundred years maybe? One thing that's certain is that they will all be gone before the glacial cycle is over.


We don't burn fossils for fuel. Fossils don't burn.

What makes you think ice ages even happen at all? It's certainly not any theory of science.


Sheesh dude... Because the obliquity is decreasing.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Today, on March 6, 2021 at noon, Earth's axial tilt, or mean obliquity was 23.43652°.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Earth's mean obliquity today is about 0.00001° less than 30 days ago.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Earth's axial tilt is said to oscillate between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees every 41000 years.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
It looks like the nicest weather was about 11000 years ago, and coolest weather in 10000 years


How do you know? Were you there?


The greater Earth's axial tilt angle, the more extreme our seasons are, as each hemisphere receives more solar radiation during its summer, when the hemisphere is tilted toward the Sun, and less during winter, when it is tilted away. Larger tilt angles favor periods of deglaciation.

Why would it? A larger tile angle effective enlarges the Artic circle and the Antarctic circle, where the Sun doesn't rise at all during one or more days of the year.
Spongy Iris wrote:
There is also the orbital eccentricity cycle, the 100,000 year cycle of which lines up to how often scientists think ice ages have happened in the past 800,000 years.

How do they know? They don't. This is religion.
Spongy Iris wrote:
In about 100,000 years, Earth will be further away from the Sun much of the year because the orbit will be less circular and more oval.

Did you know that aphelion (the time when Earth is furthest from the Sun and in the slowest part of it's orbit) occurs during summer in the Northern hemisphere? It takes place in mid July.

Perihelion, Earth's closest approach to the Sun, and also when it is moving fastest during it's orbit, takes place in mid January, which is winter in the Northern hemisphere.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
09-03-2021 21:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:LMAO

LOL LOL ... Yawn. LOL



LOL.


Yawn.


James___ wrote: There will be another one.

What makes you think there were ever any in the first place? Are you thinking that because Norway has snow that the rest of the planet will all rush to be just like Norway all at once? Is Norway going to start exporting its ice globally? Will Norway be producing this impending ice age?



.



3 of the 5 Great Lakes in North America were carved out by the last ice age. I think it's actually all 5. This allows for 2 causes of how the melting of the glaciers changed the landscape. Myself, it could be after repeated ice ages and we only notice the effects of the last one. This is getting into their geology. With lakes Superior and Ontario, there was a different reason for their existence.
With lakes Michigan, Huron and Erie, they sit atop of bedrock that is quite hard. What helps to date Lake Erie is the rate that Niagara Falls is moving upstream.
Son, this is all basic information that every true American knows, where did I go wrong with you?

I'll clue you in. I thought that I taught you better. And yet you don't know the geology of North America.


p.s., with lakes Superior and Ontario, ancient fault lines. This allowed for earthen material to be easily washed away.


You seem to be claiming all sorts of things from 40,000 years ago. I know were aren't that old. You are speculating.



It's better to have a thought than to have none at all.

True. You aren't thinking.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
09-03-2021 21:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:Saying that another cool period will happen is only acknowledging what history has taught us.

What time period are you claiming this "history" covers?

.



It's interesting that with the internet about all you guys can do is say millions of years ago. You guys need to take some time to learn a little about history. Yet it never happened so there you go.


'History', I've found, isn't entirely factual, or complete. People tend to record event, as they interpret, or how they wish them to be remembered. Events that happened, before the historian was born, isn't history, it's purely speculation, about what might have happened, a fiction, not facts. O like reading about science. I also enjoy reading science fiction. Maybe that's how I'm able to keep the two separate. There is nothing wrong, with a scientist, engaging in fictional writing. There would be no innovations, if there was no imagination. Some people just like the fiction written, to the scientist, who wrote it, and believe it to be true and factual. After all, a scientist, has no imagination, and couldn't possibly write fiction.

So who was recording events 40,000 years ago??


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
09-03-2021 21:50
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9937)
Into the Night wrote:So who was recording events 40,000 years ago??

Don't historical events leave impressions in the entangled photons? James__ tells me that those are fossils.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
09-03-2021 22:44
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3617)
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:Saying that another cool period will happen is only acknowledging what history has taught us.

What time period are you claiming this "history" covers?

.



It's interesting that with the internet about all you guys can do is say millions of years ago. You guys need to take some time to learn a little about history. Yet it never happened so there you go.


'History', I've found, isn't entirely factual, or complete. People tend to record event, as they interpret, or how they wish them to be remembered. Events that happened, before the historian was born, isn't history, it's purely speculation, about what might have happened, a fiction, not facts. O like reading about science. I also enjoy reading science fiction. Maybe that's how I'm able to keep the two separate. There is nothing wrong, with a scientist, engaging in fictional writing. There would be no innovations, if there was no imagination. Some people just like the fiction written, to the scientist, who wrote it, and believe it to be true and factual. After all, a scientist, has no imagination, and couldn't possibly write fiction.

So who was recording events 40,000 years ago??


Nobody. 40,000 years ago, is purely fiction writings, of a scientist's imagination, of what might have happened. The scientist, had probably made clear, that he really didn't know, just a consensus of others, thought it made good sense, and went with it. The media doesn't help things either, it's a free, ready made, headline story, easy profits, little to no work involved.
09-03-2021 23:14
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(759)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
[quote]joseph369 wrote:

What makes you think ice ages even happen at all? It's certainly not any theory of science.


Sheesh dude... Because the obliquity is decreasing.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Today, on March 6, 2021 at noon, Earth's axial tilt, or mean obliquity was 23.43652°.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Earth's mean obliquity today is about 0.00001° less than 30 days ago.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Earth's axial tilt is said to oscillate between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees every 41000 years.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
It looks like the nicest weather was about 11000 years ago, and coolest weather in 10000 years


How do you know? Were you there?


The greater Earth's axial tilt angle, the more extreme our seasons are, as each hemisphere receives more solar radiation during its summer, when the hemisphere is tilted toward the Sun, and less during winter, when it is tilted away. Larger tilt angles favor periods of deglaciation.

Why would it? A larger tile angle effective enlarges the Artic circle and the Antarctic circle, where the Sun doesn't rise at all during one or more days of the year.
Spongy Iris wrote:
There is also the orbital eccentricity cycle, the 100,000 year cycle of which lines up to how often scientists think ice ages have happened in the past 800,000 years.

How do they know? They don't. This is religion.
Spongy Iris wrote:
In about 100,000 years, Earth will be further away from the Sun much of the year because the orbit will be less circular and more oval.

Did you know that aphelion (the time when Earth is furthest from the Sun and in the slowest part of it's orbit) occurs during summer in the Northern hemisphere? It takes place in mid July.

Perihelion, Earth's closest approach to the Sun, and also when it is moving fastest during it's orbit, takes place in mid January, which is winter in the Northern hemisphere.


It's easier to supply a heat source that's hotter than ice, than it is to supply a heat sink that's colder than freezing point.

Melts faster than it freezes. That's why hotter summers/higher tilt favors deglaciation.

OK 100,000 year orbital eccentricity cycle is religion. Where can I find the holy book from which this religion is derived?

Summers in the southern hemisphere will tend to be warmer than summers in the northern hemisphere from the result of the Sun being closer to Earth in January than July.


10-03-2021 01:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16050)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
[quote]joseph369 wrote:

What makes you think ice ages even happen at all? It's certainly not any theory of science.


Sheesh dude... Because the obliquity is decreasing.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Today, on March 6, 2021 at noon, Earth's axial tilt, or mean obliquity was 23.43652°.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Earth's mean obliquity today is about 0.00001° less than 30 days ago.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
Earth's axial tilt is said to oscillate between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees every 41000 years.

So?
Spongy Iris wrote:
It looks like the nicest weather was about 11000 years ago, and coolest weather in 10000 years


How do you know? Were you there?


The greater Earth's axial tilt angle, the more extreme our seasons are, as each hemisphere receives more solar radiation during its summer, when the hemisphere is tilted toward the Sun, and less during winter, when it is tilted away. Larger tilt angles favor periods of deglaciation.

Why would it? A larger tile angle effective enlarges the Artic circle and the Antarctic circle, where the Sun doesn't rise at all during one or more days of the year.
Spongy Iris wrote:
There is also the orbital eccentricity cycle, the 100,000 year cycle of which lines up to how often scientists think ice ages have happened in the past 800,000 years.

How do they know? They don't. This is religion.
Spongy Iris wrote:
In about 100,000 years, Earth will be further away from the Sun much of the year because the orbit will be less circular and more oval.

Did you know that aphelion (the time when Earth is furthest from the Sun and in the slowest part of it's orbit) occurs during summer in the Northern hemisphere? It takes place in mid July.

Perihelion, Earth's closest approach to the Sun, and also when it is moving fastest during it's orbit, takes place in mid January, which is winter in the Northern hemisphere.


It's easier to supply a heat source that's hotter than ice, than it is to supply a heat sink that's colder than freezing point.

Nope. Most of space will cause water to freeze almost instantly.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Melts faster than it freezes. That's why hotter summers/higher tilt favors deglaciation.

Denial of the 1st law of thermodynamics and the Latent Heat law (Q=mL, where 'Q' is the heat energy (in joules), 'm' is the mass, and 'L' is the latent heat constant of that material (such as water)). Whether endothermic, or exothermic, the value of Q remains the same.
Spongy Iris wrote:
OK 100,000 year orbital eccentricity cycle is religion. Where can I find the holy book from which this religion is derived?

Religion isn't a book. All religions are based on some initial circular argument (also known as the Argument of Faith or simply 'faith), with argument extending from that. That's what a religion is. Religion is a belief without proof. Faith. Religion uses supporting evidence, while science does not.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Summers in the southern hemisphere will tend to be warmer than summers in the northern hemisphere from the result of the Sun being closer to Earth in January than July.

Nope. Nothing unusual about summers or winters in the Southern hemispheres.
The hottest temperature ever recorded at a weather station is in Death Valley, in the summer, in the Northern hemisphere.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
10-03-2021 01:20
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9937)
Into the Night wrote:Nope. Nothing unusual about summers or winters in the Southern hemispheres. The hottest temperature ever recorded at a weather station is in Death Valley, in the summer, in the Northern hemisphere.

CLIMATE.GOV says that it was much hotter at the end of the Neoproterozoic because lots of scientists agree that tree rings confirm it was too hot even for pete swamps. It has the NOAA logo and everything so it's all legit.




.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
10-03-2021 12:34
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1350)
IBdaMann wrote:
duncan61 wrote:A lot off crude was formed a long time ago by decomposing flora and fauna

Why should any rational adult believe that?

Absolutely no living thing that dies ever decays into petroleum. Graveyards are not universally being eyed by Big Oil for drilling. When a court orders a body exhumed for some investigation, no crude oil is discovered upon opening the casket.

From our understanding of the Fischer-Tropsch process, hydrocarbons require intense heat and pressure to form. There is no intense heat and pressure in the fossil record ... deep in the earth's crust and mantle, yes but certainly not up near the surface where life lives. Archaeological sites are not knee-deep in oil.

So what are you talking about?


.


Crude oil is formed from the remains of dead organisms (diatoms) such as algae and zooplankton that existed millions of years ago in a marine environment. These organisms were the dominant forms of life on earth at the time.
Does this not occur on your planet?


duncan61
10-03-2021 12:39
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1350)
How about this gem
How is oil formed?
Millions of years ago, algae and plants lived in shallow seas. After dying and sinking to the seafloor, the organic material mixed with other sediments and was buried. Over millions of years under high pressure and high temperature, the remains of these organisms transformed into what we know today as fossil fuels.5 Oct 2018
So the people who believe this are part of a religion and it is not true?
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