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California Historic Power Outage!


California Historic Power Outage!09-10-2019 06:34
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
https://www.wftv.com/news/national-news/ap-top-news/california-faces-historic-power-outage-due-to-fire-danger/995218024

This is going to be messed up for a lot of people in California, and I've got a strong hunch it's not going to be a one time deal either. Guess folks will get to see what living 'green' is all about.

Here, it kind of sucks, when a storm takes out the power, but when know it's coming in advance, and prepared. California, they just got notice, and have time to prepare, but I doubt they are figuring on this to be a repeated thing for a while.

This should be a heads up for everyone, who thinks renewable energy is going to be a smooth transition. Every state with 'green' dreams, will have to shut off power for upgrades, and fixes, as they learn to balance their loads. The scary part, is that we should be aware of how easy it is to just cut our electricity, on a whim. I think we are going to find that many of these upgrades, will be to more selectively cut power to customers, based on demand and priority. It won't be just hospitals, and essential services, but those willing to pay for the privilege. Going off the grid isn't really an option for most folks, and they'll have to just bend over and take the outages.

Really don't think this going to be a good thing for PG&E, when the majority of their customers realize that some people can buy preferential service, and everyone else get's screwed. It's not like most people get to chose where the get there electricity from, usually just on provider in the area. Bad enough not having an option to shop for the best rate or service, but having to pay what they say, and decide if you are worth supplying is something different.
09-10-2019 18:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
Life in the SOTC is starting to sound more and more like Venezuela and their crappy power system.
09-10-2019 21:03
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Mostly, I think it's just plain greed. They are happy to take customer's money every month, charge as much as they want, taxes and fees. But, they don't want to spending any of if it. The have one of the largest homeless problems in the country, and the costliest wildfires, every couple years. Seems like a large, cheap, workforce available, to clear brush, trim around power lines. They have to setup homeless camps anyway, why not set them up, and assign them areas to maintain. No work, no food. In the continual problem areas, clear some fire breaks, to reduce the spread. They have a lot of potential labor resources, like jails, prisons, community service as well. There is really no reason why the should have a wildfire problem. It would cost a lot less to do the work, to reduce the chance, and extent, than what gets spent fighting fires, and paying for the damage done. Of course, California hands out too much free money, why work, if you get the same for doing nothing? Isn't Nancy from California? Guess that's where the pay me, for not working think comes from. Mostly though, I think they like the fires, probably many were set deliberately, to scam some federal natural disaster money.
09-10-2019 22:50
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Last update on the outages...

https://www.wftv.com/news/national-news/ap-top-news/the-latest-power-outages-begin-in-california/995449813

Wonder how many enterprising individuals will be looting and pillaging during the outages. Sounds like the plan on leaving the power out overnight.
10-10-2019 05:18
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
New story on the outages....

https://www.wftv.com/news/national-news/ap-top-news/millions-face-power-outages-in-northern-central-california/995323464

This one is a little different. It's about climate change causing foretasted high winds, and the reason for the blackouts. Apparently, the repairs and upgrades previously reported, were BS, they ain't fixing anything, that doesn't get broken, if the wind actual comes. No strong winds, first day of the blackouts, and they are going to keep power off, until the climate crisis passes, if it happens... Basically, they are waiting for strong winds, not sure when, or how long they'll last. Then afterwards, they have to check all of the lines and substations for wind damage, before turning on the power. Wonder how many homes have left everything plugged in, and ready for power. Seems like the potential for a huge initial surge, as all those pieces of equipment start all at one time. Might not go as smoothly as expected. Basically, a million or so people, without power, with minimal warning, now being told, it could be several days, before it get turned back on. Since PG&E isn't actually doing anything to fix the problem, every time there are foretasted to have strong winds, they'll cut power. I don't this is going to go well, and they probably won't make it a habit, much.

Wonder how that solar power is working out for folks who had grid-tied panels installed on their roofs. I never got into the details of the grid-tie stuff, but from what I understand, full production from the panels, go straight to the grid the home is still powered by the grid. I'm not sure if that output can be switch, to directly power the home. It would complicate things, and greater expense. The main selling point of grid-tie was, much cheaper, no batteries to maintain, and potential to have the power company writing you a check (almost never happens). Most people see some reduction in their power bills, but they still get a monthly bill.

I guess climate change in California, is worse, form their unusual ways of dealing with it...
11-10-2019 00:32
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
https://www.wftv.com/news/national-news/ap-top-news/california-faces-historic-power-outage-due-to-fire-danger/995218024

This is going to be messed up for a lot of people in California, and I've got a strong hunch it's not going to be a one time deal either. Guess folks will get to see what living 'green' is all about.

Here, it kind of sucks, when a storm takes out the power, but when know it's coming in advance, and prepared. California, they just got notice, and have time to prepare, but I doubt they are figuring on this to be a repeated thing for a while.

This should be a heads up for everyone, who thinks renewable energy is going to be a smooth transition. Every state with 'green' dreams, will have to shut off power for upgrades, and fixes, as they learn to balance their loads. The scary part, is that we should be aware of how easy it is to just cut our electricity, on a whim. I think we are going to find that many of these upgrades, will be to more selectively cut power to customers, based on demand and priority. It won't be just hospitals, and essential services, but those willing to pay for the privilege. Going off the grid isn't really an option for most folks, and they'll have to just bend over and take the outages.

Really don't think this going to be a good thing for PG&E, when the majority of their customers realize that some people can buy preferential service, and everyone else get's screwed. It's not like most people get to chose where the get there electricity from, usually just on provider in the area. Bad enough not having an option to shop for the best rate or service, but having to pay what they say, and decide if you are worth supplying is something different.



There are a lot of "green" homes that supply power to the grid. I don't think you get it. You don't understand that coal and natural gas are finite resources. That's one issue that you're ignoring and it's sad that you're that limited.
Maybe McConnell can ask his wife if her family can ship us coal from China? You know, keep it in the family.
11-10-2019 10:31
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Wonder why the green-team has gone out to some of the solar homes and neighborhoods, and shown the benefits of rooftop solar panels. PG&E are shutting off the high tension feed lines, but shouldn't effect 'green' solar contributions. Everyone with solar, or living with neighbors who went green, should have power (while the sun shines), and not as badly effected buy the blackouts. Should be a huge selling point, considering PG&E plans to do this, every time the wind blows.

Have to wonder if PG&E cutting power, is payback for the lawsuits, and fines over the wildfire death and destruction. Maybe, evidence they can use in a appeal. Since there are wildfires burning, even though their supply lines aren't energized. PG&E is only partly to blame, the state does little to reduce the brush, that burns so easy.

I suppose it's good experience for Californians, since they really want the 'Green New Deal', and carbon neutrality. Power outages won't be deliberate, but frequent anyway.
11-10-2019 20:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
https://www.wftv.com/news/national-news/ap-top-news/california-faces-historic-power-outage-due-to-fire-danger/995218024

This is going to be messed up for a lot of people in California, and I've got a strong hunch it's not going to be a one time deal either. Guess folks will get to see what living 'green' is all about.

Here, it kind of sucks, when a storm takes out the power, but when know it's coming in advance, and prepared. California, they just got notice, and have time to prepare, but I doubt they are figuring on this to be a repeated thing for a while.

This should be a heads up for everyone, who thinks renewable energy is going to be a smooth transition. Every state with 'green' dreams, will have to shut off power for upgrades, and fixes, as they learn to balance their loads. The scary part, is that we should be aware of how easy it is to just cut our electricity, on a whim. I think we are going to find that many of these upgrades, will be to more selectively cut power to customers, based on demand and priority. It won't be just hospitals, and essential services, but those willing to pay for the privilege. Going off the grid isn't really an option for most folks, and they'll have to just bend over and take the outages.

Really don't think this going to be a good thing for PG&E, when the majority of their customers realize that some people can buy preferential service, and everyone else get's screwed. It's not like most people get to chose where the get there electricity from, usually just on provider in the area. Bad enough not having an option to shop for the best rate or service, but having to pay what they say, and decide if you are worth supplying is something different.



There are a lot of "green" homes that supply power to the grid.

They cannot supply the needs of the electrical grid.
James___ wrote:
I don't think you get it. You don't understand that coal and natural gas are finite resources.

Natural gas is a renewable resource. Coal is plentiful and cheap.
James___ wrote:
That's one issue that you're ignoring and it's sad that you're that limited.

No, it is YOU that is limited. You keep chanting the mantras of the Church of Green mindlessly.
James___ wrote:
Maybe McConnell can ask his wife if her family can ship us coal from China?

No need. We have plenty of coal. That's why it's cheap.


The Parrot Killer
11-10-2019 20:51
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Wonder why the green-team has gone out to some of the solar homes and neighborhoods, and shown the benefits of rooftop solar panels. PG&E are shutting off the high tension feed lines, but shouldn't effect 'green' solar contributions. Everyone with solar, or living with neighbors who went green, should have power (while the sun shines), and not as badly effected buy the blackouts. Should be a huge selling point, considering PG&E plans to do this, every time the wind blows.

Any load still connected without electrical supply from power plants is going to act like a leech on these solar panel systems. Those panels cannot supply those loads. It's like a dead short. The fuses will blow.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Have to wonder if PG&E cutting power, is payback for the lawsuits, and fines over the wildfire death and destruction.

Perhaps. At the least, it indicates that PG&E has a crappy power system that they can't or won't fix due to SOTC environmental laws.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Maybe, evidence they can use in a appeal. Since there are wildfires burning, even though their supply lines aren't energized. PG&E is only partly to blame, the state does little to reduce the brush, that burns so easy.

The SOTC environmental laws prevent dealing with the brush.
HarveyH55 wrote:
I suppose it's good experience for Californians, since they really want the 'Green New Deal', and carbon neutrality. Power outages won't be deliberate, but frequent anyway.

They will probably be both. As conditions continue to deteriorate in the SOTC, they will probably become more frequent as well.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 11-10-2019 20:52
12-10-2019 06:50
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
https://www.wftv.com/news/national-news/ap-top-news/the-latest-100k-ordered-to-evacuated-because-of-la-wildfire/996316068

Oops... Apparently, the largest wildfire burning in California, near Las Angeles, was sparked by... power lines. One death, possible do to the power outage. 60 year old man, with heart problems and on oxygen, died in his sleep, 12 minutes after his power got turned off. They claim it's not connected, even though the man was using an electric oxygen concentrater. Could be true, since I'd expect the plugin unit to have a battery backup, and alarms. Maybe the stress of knowing his power was going to get cut, or suicide.

Really surprising that there hasn't been any news about crime, looting or any of the expected stuff, that usually happens during such events. Crime in California, is normal news, if shutting off the power stops crime, maybe the should just leave it off... It's really hard to believe there aren't any negative news stories, unless the news outlets have no electricity, to spread the word. All these people, off work, kids out of school, 'idle hands are the devil's workshop...' Could be, there isn't any national attention worthy crimes, just the normal, day-to-day, robbing and looting.
12-10-2019 12:14
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Wonder why the green-team has gone out to some of the solar homes and neighborhoods, and shown the benefits of rooftop solar panels. PG&E are shutting off the high tension feed lines, but shouldn't effect 'green' solar contributions. Everyone with solar, or living with neighbors who went green, should have power (while the sun shines), and not as badly effected buy the blackouts. Should be a huge selling point, considering PG&E plans to do this, every time the wind blows.

Have to wonder if PG&E cutting power, is payback for the lawsuits, and fines over the wildfire death and destruction. Maybe, evidence they can use in a appeal. Since there are wildfires burning, even though their supply lines aren't energized. PG&E is only partly to blame, the state does little to reduce the brush, that burns so easy.

I suppose it's good experience for Californians, since they really want the 'Green New Deal', and carbon neutrality. Power outages won't be deliberate, but frequent anyway.



Most solar panels feed the grid. If there is no battery then chances are that those solar panels are not feeding energy to anyone.
This is funny because PG & E is a for profit utility. It is famous for being sued by Erin Brokovich. What happens when the people running a business cut corners to increase profits? PG $ E happens.
WPPS in Washington state used to have the same company submit the low bid to win the contract but wasn't reliable. The Seattle Times made it known that if the bid couldn't be proven to not be what the company claimed, then the state had to give them the contact.
Companies that probably could've done a better job couldn't prove that their more expensive bid was higher. Kind of like posting in this forum, can't prove what will happen then you are wrong.
12-10-2019 16:44
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
I did some read, and grid-tied system are shutdown during power outages. First, it's for the protection of utility workers doing repairs. You can depend on a homeowner to manually shut down on demand. Second, utility companies are pretty much obligated to pay for you power generated, which they can't sell, if the grid is shut down. Only people who buy the battery backup options, will have power. Unfortunately, you only get what you pay for, and batteries are expensive. If you want to run the whole house, like there is no blackout, you need a lot of battery capacity. But larger capacity, requires more current, and longer charge time. Basically, you will only get limited power off batteries, and how long that lasts, depends on how careful you are about using it. You wouldn't run your air conditioner long off it, if at all.

I still didn't find a very good answer about if you could manually switch out from the grid, and power your own home. It should be an option, but I have to guess, that there is some risk of power still getting out on the grid, from the way some homes are wired. Guess there are a few building code violations...

Apparently, these blackouts are sort of a test, of some new rules. Power companies in some states, are allowed to cutoff power, to anyone, anytime, if they feel there is a dangerous situation, natural, or otherwise. Kind of sucks, if they can sell priority. Poor people, slow to pay, or on some sort of government discounted rate, would get cut during high demand, so rich people wouldn't have service interrupted, allowing them to charge more. They are studying how they can more precisely cut power, just in the effected areas of a natural disaster, which could also give them more options on who gets power, when the demand exceeds the grid's capacity. The grid needs to be replaced, if renewable energy, like wind and solar, are going to be a major part. Unless we plan on staying off the grid, or rich, we all can expect frequent blackouts in the future.
12-10-2019 18:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
HarveyH55 wrote:
https://www.wftv.com/news/national-news/ap-top-news/the-latest-100k-ordered-to-evacuated-because-of-la-wildfire/996316068

Oops... Apparently, the largest wildfire burning in California, near Las Angeles, was sparked by... power lines. One death, possible do to the power outage. 60 year old man, with heart problems and on oxygen, died in his sleep, 12 minutes after his power got turned off. They claim it's not connected, even though the man was using an electric oxygen concentrater. Could be true, since I'd expect the plugin unit to have a battery backup, and alarms. Maybe the stress of knowing his power was going to get cut, or suicide.

His battery probably died, then he did.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Really surprising that there hasn't been any news about crime, looting or any of the expected stuff, that usually happens during such events.

It depends. You don't see looting in a campground, for example, where there is no power either. Of course there are no storefronts full of goodies to loot. Maybe folks are still in shock at seeing so many stars for the first time in their lives.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Crime in California, is normal news, if shutting off the power stops crime, maybe the should just leave it off...

It stops business too.
HarveyH55 wrote:
It's really hard to believe there aren't any negative news stories, unless the news outlets have no electricity, to spread the word.

Quite likely. There are still some communications systems working in the SOTC, but the affected areas don't have them.
HarveyH55 wrote:
All these people, off work, kids out of school, 'idle hands are the devil's workshop...' Could be, there isn't any national attention worthy crimes, just the normal, day-to-day, robbing and looting.

Like I said, it depends.


The Parrot Killer
12-10-2019 18:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Wonder why the green-team has gone out to some of the solar homes and neighborhoods, and shown the benefits of rooftop solar panels. PG&E are shutting off the high tension feed lines, but shouldn't effect 'green' solar contributions. Everyone with solar, or living with neighbors who went green, should have power (while the sun shines), and not as badly effected buy the blackouts. Should be a huge selling point, considering PG&E plans to do this, every time the wind blows.

Have to wonder if PG&E cutting power, is payback for the lawsuits, and fines over the wildfire death and destruction. Maybe, evidence they can use in a appeal. Since there are wildfires burning, even though their supply lines aren't energized. PG&E is only partly to blame, the state does little to reduce the brush, that burns so easy.

I suppose it's good experience for Californians, since they really want the 'Green New Deal', and carbon neutrality. Power outages won't be deliberate, but frequent anyway.



Most solar panels feed the grid.

They can't. There is too much load. Such systems will trip their fuses to save themselves.
James___ wrote:
If there is no battery then chances are that those solar panels are not feeding energy to anyone.

Battery makes no difference.
James___ wrote:
This is funny because PG & E is a for profit utility.

WRONG. It is a government utility.
James___ wrote:
It is famous for being sued by Erin Brokovich. What happens when the people running a business cut corners to increase profits? PG $ E happens.

WRONG. It is a government utility.
James___ wrote:
WPPS in Washington state used to have the same company submit the low bid to win the contract but wasn't reliable. The Seattle Times made it known that if the bid couldn't be proven to not be what the company claimed, then the state had to give them the contact.
Companies that probably could've done a better job couldn't prove that their more expensive bid was higher.

WRONG. No single contract to supply power is made. Like PG&E, WPPS is a government utility.


The Parrot Killer




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