Nevada water chief rejects big Vegas pipeline pumping plan
| Nevada water chief rejects big Vegas pipeline pumping plan18-08-2018 03:52 | |
| James___★★★★★ (5513) |
...This is an interesting read. Plenty of water where I live. We've had flash flood warnings because we have too much water. Yet in a different part of the country it's the complete opposite, the rains aren't coming. ..There might be alternative methods of desalination but that's kind of a waste of time to consider. Just more physics. Like why is water cohesive ? How does pressure effect cohesion ? The simple answer is it doesn't, we already know it, etc. ..Prevents any consideration of how pressure effects the emission and absorption of electromagnet radiation of a water molecule. How does salt effect the dispersal of salt ions in water ? Not my problem. I've got me some wood working to do. And when that's finished then I might consider this. https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Nevada-water-chief-rejects-big-Vegas-pipeline-13164539.php ..The Aral Sea. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141001-aral-sea-shrinking-drought-water-environment/ Edited on 18-08-2018 04:00 |
| 18-08-2018 15:57 | |
| James___★★★★★ (5513) |
...I sent the link to this thread to the Southern Nevada Water Authority. This is because a negative pressure based desalination process might be more efficient. The current process requires about 80 atmospheres (1,200 psi) of pressure to desalinate water. ..And with ITN, his usual repertoire of answers includes "it doesn't" and "we already know it". ..With membranes, salt is known to evenly disperse in water. With a modified membrane it could have salt embedded in it. This would allow for slightly larger pores. And with a negative pressure system the water being purified could flow in the opposite direction as the brine. This could help to encourage salt ions in sea water to follow the path of least resistance. ..What I am hypothesizing is that as the pressure acting on water decreases so does it's cohesion. It is my opinion that as the force acting on water molecules tries to expand them that their electromagnetic radiation emission will decrease. It is most likely this emission that when absorbed by a water molecule next to it allows for water's cohesion. And that when water has force trying to compress it, it becomes more excited to oppose the compression force. And as it becomes more excited it emits more electromagnetic radiation and then absorbs more as well. It is this that would create a stronger bond. And when sufficient pressure is applied (the 1,200 psi) then water molecules can have sufficient potential to achieve mass escape velocity. Basically they are "fired" from the water stopped by the membranes and this in turn allows for a flow of potable water. ..Since populations in the southwest most likely will keep growing then the future, anticipated population and availability of potable water should be considered. This is because pumping water from the Pacific Ocean might be the most practical long term solution for fresh water as far east as Phoenix and Tuscon, Az. Otherwise a significant negative impact to both Nevada, Arizona and the Colorado river could happen. @ITN, this is what could help some reservations as well. All it'd take is running an extra pipeline. That costs money but at the same time Americans should have some compassion for the plight of Native Americans. Then again I'm not a politician, I can only make a suggestion. And with us Americans we have a saying; ..You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Edited on 18-08-2018 16:10 |
| 18-08-2018 21:43 | |
Into the Night ★★★★★(22481) |
James___ wrote: I doubt they'll bother to read it. They have better things to do, like provide water equitably to the people that want it. James___ wrote: Whether you shove it through a membrane, or 'pull' it through a membrane, you still need a pressure differential of around 1200psi. James___ wrote: No, it doesn't. James___ wrote: Did you know that salt dissolves in water? What is to keep the salt in the membrane? James___ wrote: You don't want larger pores. This works against you. James___ wrote: The pressure differential across the membrane still needs to be 1200psi. James___ wrote: This is a theory, not a hypothesis. It is already falsified. Pressure does not increase the cohesion of water. James___ wrote: You can't expand a water molecule. Pressure changes on a liquid does not change the distance of molecules relative to each other. Liquids are not compressible. James___ wrote: That is determined by their temperature, not the pressure. James___ wrote: Cohesion doesn't change because of pressure. James___ wrote: You can't compress a liquid. James___ wrote: That is determined solely by its temperature. You are forgetting the Stefan-Boltzmann law again. James___ wrote: Pressure does not change the bond of a water molecule. James___ wrote: Try a squirt gun. James___ wrote: This is nothing more than water being squeezed through a membrane...what is already happening because of the 1200psi pressure difference. James___ wrote: They actually have plenty of water. Did you know that? James___ wrote: No need. There is plenty of water for their needs. James___ wrote: 1) The Colorado river is not the only source of water for these regions. 2) The Colorado river is governed by a treaty between the adjacent states known as the Colorado River Compact. It changes from time to time to adjust for changes in population density. James___ wrote: No need. They have all the water they want. James___ wrote: They don't want or need an extra pipeline from anywhere. James___ wrote: They are not in a plight. They are happy where they live. James___ wrote: You don't have to be a politician to make suggestions! James___ wrote: Irrelevant. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 18-08-2018 21:44 | |
| James___★★★★★ (5513) |
...And why do I think that will help ? I wrote a Letter to the Editor of the L.A. Times and pointed out their weather forecast. 85° F. during the day and 68° F. at night. As far as KE goes that's not much of a change. Most of the heat at night is being conserved. I think a water molecule can conserve energy just as an atmospheric gas does. And with water by lowering it's KE by trying to expand it it decreases the amount of electromagnetic radiation being both released and absorbed. ..I'd like to think that's some basic physics because the difference is by using force or work to try and decrease the density of something it can become conservative in nature. If that weren't possible then our atmosphere would have a different dynamic than what it does have. ..And we all know that if water is expanded with a force of 14.7 psi or 1.03kg/cm^2 that it's pressure will be 0. What happens when 29.4 psi or 2.06kg/cm^2 is trying to expand water which really can't be expanded ? ..Most people don't know that air pressure is 14.7 psi or 1.03kg cm^2 because a column of water 10.30m high has that much force at it's base. And this is because 1cm^3 of water weighs 1 gram. The link is to a converter if anyone wants to check it out. And in American terms, a column of water 33.75 ft. tall weighs 14.7 lbs. hence 14.7 psi of force at it's base. ..And to test my hypothesis about all it takes is a hydraulic cylinder. It can be used to pull water through a membrane. Just connect it on the discharge side and see how much force it takes to pull water through the R.O. membrane. And if they have a membrane for use with 600 psi of force, that would be better. This is because it's pores would be ever so slightly larger. ..I actually asked about this in the desalination forum on facebook because they made me a moderator for wondering why something like this wasn't tried. As it turned out people who work with this and even pursue research cannot consider using negative pressure. So what to do ? |
| 19-08-2018 09:41 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22481) |
James___ wrote: It is not possible to conserve heat. James___ wrote: Water doesn't conserve energy. It takes more energy to make water change by one degree, but that isn't conserving energy. Water WILL warm up and cool down. James___ wrote: You can't compress or decompress a liquid. James___ wrote: You have no idea what 'dynamics' the atmosphere has. James___ wrote: You can't achieve a pressure of zero. James___ wrote: Nothin. James___ wrote: Large pores work against you when desalinating water. James___ wrote: Membranes work by pressure differential. There is no 'negative' pressure concerning membranes. James___ wrote: You might try studying physics, especially the area of hydraulics. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan Edited on 19-08-2018 09:41 |
| 19-08-2018 16:22 | |
| James___★★★★★ (5513) |
Into the Night wrote: ...@All, ..This is the kind of attitude that I'm talking about. In 3 years and 4 days of posting this is all itn has. And with people in the industry they know how it works now. Yet 0 psi is a theoretical limit. The speed of sound used to be the same way until Chuck Yeager flew faster than the speed of sound. There were many theories on why the speed of sound could never be broken. ..Out gassing could occur. If so then it would need to be considered if out gassing sea water is cost effective. ..with the diagram it outlines the basic components. If it is found out that the chlorine we use for purifying water encourages atmospheric CCl4 to occur then this process will probably be needed to remove chlorine from potable water after it's treated. So this is the direction that we might need to be heading in the future. With CCl4 (carbon tetrachloride) it destroys ozone. And itn will say ozone can't be destroyed even though it goes O2 + (h < 8.0723×10-16 hertz) = 2 O O + O2 + (h < 1.0674×10-15 hertz) = O3 O3 + O > 2 O2 ..itn, It would be interesting to see what the emission spectrum of CCl4 is in the ozone layer itself. If it's found to be between h<242nm and h>320nm then it would be known that CCl4 is breaking the bonds that O2 has which depletes the O2 necessary for ozone to occur. And you say this can't happen. If it is happening then the balance of O, O2 and O3 would be disrupted by the presence of CCl4. We already know that CCl4 has a negative impact on stratospheric ozone. https://photos.app.goo.gl/ydZQtDSspyrJT7kV9 |
| 19-08-2018 19:41 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22481) |
James___ wrote:Into the Night wrote: Indeed they do. Membranes work by pressure differential. There is no 'negative' pressure concerning membranes. James___ wrote: No, it is an absolute limit. It is not achievable because of the energy involved in producing it (also an absolute limit). James___ wrote: The speed of sound is not an absolute limit. It never was. James___ wrote: There were a few, but they were put forth by people that didn't understand aircraft and air. James___ wrote: Do you know what 'evaporation' is? It's pretty effective at desalinating sea water! James___ wrote: Meh. James___ wrote: We already remove most chlorine from water after it's been treated. We leave some in so the plumbing won't recontaminate it. It does not release carbon tetrachloride into the atmosphere. There is no carbon in water. James___ wrote: Maybe YOU might be heading in that direction, but fortunately engineers know what is going on. James___ wrote: No, it doesn't. James___ wrote: I never say ozone can't be destroyed. I said the ozone LAYER can't be destroyed. It is always decaying every night and being recreated every day. As long as you have sunlight and oxygen, you WILL have ozone. James___ wrote: Why? The absorption spectra of CCl4 is already known. James___ wrote: If it does, you will have MORE ozone, not less. James___ wrote: CCl4 does not deplete the ozone layer. It can't. James___ wrote: There is no 'balance'. Ozone is created by the action of oxygen and sunlight. It is destroyed again by the action of sunlight on ozone at higher altitudes. James___ wrote: No, it doesn't. There is so little carbon tetrachloride in the atmosphere it has no effect whatsoever on the Chapman cycle. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 19-08-2018 21:40 | |
| James___★★★★★ (5513) |
Into the Night wrote:James___ wrote:Into the Night wrote: ..That's my point itn. Trying to get someone to consider something new is next to impossible. As you say, energy can't be conserved. Yet every night our atmosphere conserves energy. ..I wrote a Letter to the Editor of the LA Times. What I didn't mention about their temperatures was that at night it was forecast to be about 339 kelvins. During the day it was expected to go up to about 349 kelvins. ..The day time high was expected to be about 10 kelvins warmer than at night. Without atmospheric gasses conserving energy the temperature swing would be more than 10° kelvin or C. It's not. ..And for all of your nay saying you can't explain it. But if we were to start with the FUNdamentals I'd start with the temperature difference between the low and high for any given day. It is what allows the Atmos clock http://atmosadam.com/ to work continuously. |
| 20-08-2018 19:33 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22481) |
James___ wrote:Into the Night wrote:James___ wrote:Into the Night wrote: It's easy to get someone to consider something new. You just have to be compatible with science. James___ wrote: I never said that. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It is always conserved. James___ wrote: The atmosphere does not conserve energy any more than any other mass. James___ wrote: I'll be he's going to print it on the front page tomorrow! ROFL James___ wrote: The atmosphere is not conserving energy. The temperature is changing. James___ wrote: I can explain it. The atmosphere has mass. It takes time to warm and cool it. James___ wrote: Meh. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan Edited on 20-08-2018 19:34 |
| 20-08-2018 20:07 | |
| James___★★★★★ (5513) |
...Do you know what's sad itn ? A child could make the same statements that you do. ..What you overlooked is that the Editorial Editor at the L.A. Times could print my letter. They have a section for that in the newspaper. If you ever read one then you'd know. ..Amnesty International was actually started because someone read a Letter to the Editor. It is rare for people to take action because of such a letter. ..So, have you smoked much pot today ? With me, once I am retired that could be a thought. It would be for medical purposes though. That and I wouldn't really want to do anything. I mean it's okay if there's nothing a person really wants to do, you know, like you. ..That is funny. Greg Haugen smoked it and was a very good boxer. With him though he said he wanted to be more relaxed when he was around his family. He didn't want to be intense like when he trained or was in the ring. So that is a different perspective but I think with you it's smoke it however you do and then nothing. Meant to be insulting ? No more than your responses in here. |
| 20-08-2018 20:23 | |
| James___★★★★★ (5513) |
...@All, ..What itn probably will never understand is that our freezers and refrigerators move "Heat Content" from cold to warm. What I'm talking about is the physics behind it. In that aspect it becomes "conserved heat content". The colder molecules actually have more KE than what 3/2kT allows for. While itn would say this disagrees with Boltzmann (he would be right for saying this) some gasses become more excited with less background electromagnetic radiation. And Boltzmann to my knowledge did not consider this aspect because this is not dealing with an ideal gas but with molecules bonding. Atmospheric gasses would have to do the propane refrigerator thing with the tropopause and the mesopause. 2 very cold regions yet they could because of how atmospheric gasses behave could move heat from a layer of our atmosphere that is -100° F. during the hottest part of the day to the stratosphere which is 32° F. or from -73.3° C. to 0° C. ..And everything in physics follows the same principles. It's the application/scale that changes. And in a propane refrigerator it's the ammonia and hydrogen that when they bind absorb heat. Introduce water and those 2 gasses release their heat content. The same principle is most likely at play in the mesopause and the tropopause. ..With that I mean that 2 atmospheric gasses/aerosols bind and absorb heat and then a 3rd molecule breaks the bond and releases the heat. ..See itn ? You miss things like this because you don't find science interesting. In that aspect/respect I do feel sorry for you. It must be like having a disability. Who knows, maybe it's a good thing I didn't have 2 American parents? This means I can't just look at things from my perspective. After all, who was it that posted about the propane refrigerator ? It wasn't me but I still considered the chemistry and the physics of how it worked. And why do I find Atmospheric Chemistry so interesting ? I think because there's so much we don't know about it's complexity p.s., it is possible that Dr./Prof. Guzman looks at some of what is posted in here. This is all the reason I need to avoid petty B.S. and straying from accepted principles in engineering and physics. And I do think when it comes to climate change that we do need to get it right. That's kind of like our National Debt (it's more than our GDP), who's going to pay it off ? Edited on 20-08-2018 20:56 |
| 21-08-2018 00:35 | |
| James___★★★★★ (5513) |
...@All, ..I think this is it for me. I need an ileostomy and I don't think this is going to help with that. |
| 21-08-2018 09:15 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22481) |
James___ wrote:Meh. Keep hoping dude. Don't expect much a response from the L.A. Times. James___ wrote:You are not starting anything like Amnesty International. James___ wrote:Don't bother with the stuff. I have better things to do. James___ wrote: You are really working hard to insult me, aren't you? The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 21-08-2018 09:28 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (22481) |
James___ wrote: No, they don't. James___ wrote: You don't know the physics behind it. James___ wrote: It is not conserved heat. You cannot conserve heat. James___ wrote: Random bullshit. James___ wrote: The Stefan-Boltzmann law concerns radiance and temperature, not bonding forces. James___ wrote: Nope. No significant ammonia. No significant hydrogen. No trapped plumbing. James___ wrote: See the Chapman cycle. While temperature is increasing through the stratosphere with altitude, total energy is decreasing. This because the air thins with altitude. James___ wrote: You don't know the physics. James___ wrote: Scale makes no difference. James___ wrote: Heat is not absorbed. Heat cannot be absorbed by anything. James___ wrote: Heat is not a content either. Learn what 'heat' is. James___ wrote: Nope. No significant ammonia. No significant free hydrogen. No liquid water much beyond the tropopause and that rarely. No trapped plumbing. James___ wrote: See the Chapman cycle. James___ wrote: I do find science interesting. You don't know any science. You repeatedly deny things like the Stefan-Boltzmann law and the laws of thermodynamics. James___ wrote: It is not that complex. The remainder of this paragraph is irrelevant. James___ wrote: You cannot just ignore laws of physics. They are falsifiable theories that have no yet been falsified. James___ wrote: Define 'climate change' without using circular definitions. There is no need to get a meaningless buzzword 'right'. James___ wrote: Nothing like it. You will pay the national debt, one way, or the other. You are paying for it even now with the inflation. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan |
| 21-08-2018 21:58 | |
| James___★★★★★ (5513) |
Into the Night wrote: ...How is wanting to be a pot head like you insulting ? I've always been taught that imitation is the best form of flattery. that must be nice. A couple of tokes and no worries, concerns and/or problems. |
Join the debate Nevada water chief rejects big Vegas pipeline pumping plan:
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