|Gt Barrier Reef Sick or OK?01-09-2019 11:40|
|The media is spouting doom about the Gt. Barrier Reef saying that 30% of the reef is dead and the major cause is the increase in ocean temperature of 1 degree C. Prof. Peter Ridd has said that the damage is only 5 to 10% and that reef systems way north of Queensland Australia are 1 to 2 degrees warmer and the reefs there are thriving.|
Some reports say that renewables are a viable energy alternative and are cheaper. Other reports say the very opposite. No wonder many people are distrusting of scientific reports when they are so diametrically different.
|Into the Night★★★★★
Take a trip out to the coast sometime and go see the Great Barrier Reef for yourself.
What you will see is great beauty.
You will also see sections where the reef is being attacked by parasites. Some visible, some not (they're bacteria, certain kinds of plankton, etc).
If you come back in a year's time, the damage will be gone. That section that was being attacked is a healthy reef again.
These idiots don't understand the life cycle of coral or just how fast new colonies can be established.
Coral reefs are mostly dead skeletons of previous animals. The ones you see that are growing are planted literally on a mountain of the skeletons of their ancestors.
Fertilizer runoff can damage coral. Sudden temperature changes in the water can weaken coral. Parasites can kill coral. That reef has seen it all. It's still there and still beautiful. You are close enough to go see for yourself.
The Parrot Killer
The bulk of any coral reef is dead. They are colonies of many smaller animals, which build onto the previous generation's remains. Nothing lives for ever, coral just leaves behind a little protection for future generations to attach to and protect them as they grow. Like everything living, there are quite a few variables, that determine our health, life or death. Coral don't get to move, once attached to something. Temperature is the least likely, since ocean temperature is also seasonal, and summer highs vary quite a bit. Do you think heat waves only happen on land, or in the big cities? People complain more in the cities, not so much out at sea. Baby coral just hatched, and before the find their place to attach, are small, and easy food for small fish species. We tend to over fish the larger species of fish in some areas, for food. Those larger fish, keep the population of the young coral eating fish in check... Lot of boat traffic these days as well, some very large. Although they keep a good distance, it doesn't take a prop strike to do damage. Lot of fishing and recreational vessels, all the time, can be a little disruptive. Lots of people keeping saltwater fish tanks these days, lot easier, automated. Nothing like live coral for an enthusiast, or catching your own inhabitants. Live coral is a good business, legal or otherwise...
Renewable energy isn't for everyone, everywhere. Never be cheaper than fossil fuels (unless you tax the hell out of it). Solar and wind power take up a lot of real estate, which costs money. Neither produce 24/7, or on demand, nor work everywhere, equally. It's not just the solar panels or windmills, you need to store or supplement them, too much variability in the output. The end user would also need to purchase much more energy efficient devices, to reduce demand. Energy efficient, usually, means less effective. Reducing CO2, through eliminating fossil fuels will increase the demand considerably, since electric transportation, still need power, and charging. High demand, low supply, always mean high prices, just business. Fossil fuels don't need a lot of processing, to be used. All the alternative, renewable, require a lot of work and resources, just to install near where the energy will be used. Feeding a large grid would be wasteful. Solar panels degrade over time, easy to damage, need to be kept clean. Though the claims of 15-20 years sounds great, it's more like 10 years, before the output is to low to effectively supply the purpose intended. Don't know much about wind farms, don't see a lot about them in the media, so kind of figure they aren't working out so well, since who would want to believe they are doing a great thing, spent millions of tax dollars, and it's not working out?
Bio fuels, obviously require more processing to produce a useful product, than petroleum from the ground. Again, never be cheaper, but even more, there is another price we pay. On a small scale, using food plant byproducts, typical used a supplemental feed for livestock wasn't too bad. But going large scale, means growing crops specifically for fuel. The parts we use for food, are the higher energy dense portions. Will farmers grow food or fuel? There will be an equally higher demand for both, but only so much farm land, food and fuel, will both be high priced, supply won't be there for either demands.
|It's definitely not okay. It's well known that fisherman are polluting the waters. That makes it a little more difficult to determine what's causing the damage.|
People have their own agenda. Regardless of consequence, I like the Great Barrier Reed. It's a world treasure. Have been to Perth but not to the reef.
What needs to be known are the specific reasons it's dieing. That's when we will know what we can do to help preserve it.
|Dr Peter Ridd said that when portions of the reef die and then later regrow, this is a natural function of coral. He also said that a realistic reason why there might be any significant die off would be the run off from agricultural practices from the mainland. He was sacked from his job for saying these things but had it re-instated when he appealed that decision. Again, consensus seems to have won because his work is ridiculed by the media.|
|Into the Night★★★★★
What are they polluting the waters with, James?
The Parrot Killer
|Into the Night★★★★★
Coral all over the world has been studied. You should learn the life cycle of coral. The reef isn't dying.
The Parrot Killer
Into the Night wrote:Coral all over the world has been studied. You should learn the life cycle of coral. The reef isn't dying.
I watched a YouTube video of a recent Great Barrier Reef tour. It appears to be doing fine. Amazing, actually.
Sea level varies from place to place in the world - keepit
Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris
Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit
If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles
Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles
Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn
You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.
The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank
:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude
IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
|I think humans tend to think they are the on species on earth, that get sick and die from disease, or natural catastrophes. The flu kills a lot of people each year, and we understand it, have vaccines, treatments, and learned ways to minimize the spread. Still, every year, there are quite a few people dying from it. Plants and animals don't do medicine, or practice good hygiene (neither do some humans). Humans have a knack for recognizing dangerous natural events, avoid them, or take precautions, flee quickly, find safe shelter, before it gets deadly. Plants and animals limited, speed, range, options for safe refuge.|
I think that the ocean scientists/activists know damn good and well, that large patches of coral dying is normal, and common enough. Only a small percentage of people go out to visit the reefs, maybe just a once in a lifetime thing. Basically, it's just what other people tell them, for what is normal, or not. We don't here a lot about dying reefs in Florida, mostly, because it's cheap, quick, and easy for anyone to go see for themselves, and go back often. We also tend to know at least one person who dives, and have better reliable accounts, without the politics attached to media reports.
We really aren't the cause of every perceived problem on the planet. I'm not saying haven't done bad things in the past, or that we ever stopped, or possibly will. We just don't have quite the huge impact, on a global scale.
Edited on 04-09-2019 03:23
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|climate change media stories made me so sick I never google climate change ever again||3||20-02-2016 15:44|