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20-10-2015 21:26
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10270)
trafn wrote:
@Into the Night - that's kinda like saying there's a typo in your prior post without specifying why and just repeating there's a typo in your post.

I'm asking for you to be more specific about you conclusion. If you're unable to do so, please say so and I'll stop asking.


You are basically attempting to say that climate science exists because we gather data for climate science, and because we are gathering data for climate science, therefore climate science exists.

The first premise assumes climate science exists to conclude that climate science exists.

The confusion is stemming from using this circular argument to justify climate science for those who don't think there is anything like climate to study, and simply call it meteorology.
20-10-2015 21:27
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@Into the Night and IBdaMarxistMann - if you really feel a need to affirm the consequent, have you considered trying some Kaopectate?


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
20-10-2015 21:34
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
Into the Night wrote:
trafn wrote:
@Into the Night - that's kinda like saying there's a typo in your prior post without specifying why and just repeating there's a typo in your post.

I'm asking for you to be more specific about you conclusion. If you're unable to do so, please say so and I'll stop asking.


You are basically attempting to say that climate science exists because we gather data for climate science, and because we are gathering data for climate science, therefore climate science exists.

The first premise assumes climate science exists to conclude that climate science exists.

The confusion is stemming from using this circular argument to justify climate science for those who don't think there is anything like climate to study, and simply call it meteorology.


He signed a waiver acknowledging all this. Presumably he's going to make it all work out.

...but yes, you are correct. "Data" is being redefined as "Science" and being declared to exist. But we can certainly give him some room to maneuver and to finish his model.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-10-2015 21:35
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@Into the Night - wow, did you fumble that one! What I am saying is:

1. Climate Science exists because we can accurately measure atmosphere data, by scientifically accepted methods, which as an accumulated set of measurments is representative of what we call climate.

2. Climate Change Science exists because the data of Climate Science changes over time.

Okay, now, go ahead and bumble these all up as well. Would you like to start, perhaps, by re-re-re-re-re-asking for a definition of the word climate?


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
20-10-2015 21:42
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
trafn wrote:
@Into the Night - wow, did you fumble that one! What I am saying is:

1. Climate Science exists because we can accurately measure atmosphere data, by scientifically accepted methods, which as an accumulated set of measurments is representative of what we call climate.

2. Climate Change Science exists because the data of Climate Science changes over time.

Okay, now, go ahead and bumble these all up as well. Would you like to start, perhaps, by re-re-re-re-re-asking for a definition of the word climate?


If you take a weather measurement at location L at time T, and then later at the same location at time T+delta and the value is the same (no difference) then do you not have science?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-10-2015 21:55
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdaMarxistMann - you have collected data which you then might endeavor to use in scientific pursuits.


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
20-10-2015 21:59
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
trafn wrote:
@IBdaMarxistMann - you have collected data which you then might endeavor to use in scientific pursuits.

...but it hasn't changed over time. That's your basis for there being science, yes?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-10-2015 22:07
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdaMarxistMann - it hasn't changed over time? It Hasn't Changed Over Time? IT HASN'T CHANGED OVER TIME?????

Oh look, it's time for my afternoon drink. Toodles everyone!
20-10-2015 23:26
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10270)
trafn wrote:
@Into the Night - wow, did you fumble that one! What I am saying is:

1. Climate Science exists because we can accurately measure atmosphere data, by scientifically accepted methods, which as an accumulated set of measurments is representative of what we call climate.

2. Climate Change Science exists because the data of Climate Science changes over time.

Okay, now, go ahead and bumble these all up as well. Would you like to start, perhaps, by re-re-re-re-re-asking for a definition of the word climate?


Statement 1 is again a circular argument. You are defining climate science existing because of climate science data (which presumes the data exists because of climate science).

You can't have climate science data without the term climate science (which is defined by the premise of climate science data).

Statement 2 is also a circular argument. You are defining Climate Change Science as changing climate science data. You can't have changing climate science data except by use of Climate Change Science (which uses the description of changing climate science data).

Since statement 2 is dependent on statement 1, which itself is a circular argument, statement 2 simply extends that circulus across multiple levels. You have attempted a Strange Loop.

A better way to say it is that 'climate science exists' and leave it at that. This too is a circular statement, but it exists simply because you (and others) made it. This is proof by identity.

The question then drops to a simpler level: What is climate? Until this term is defined in any meaningful and agreeable way, terms like 'climate science' or 'climate change science' are essentially meaningless.
Edited on 20-10-2015 23:33
20-10-2015 23:47
climate scientist
★★☆☆☆
(257)
The question then drops to a simpler level: What is climate? Until this term is defined in any meaningful and agreeable way, terms like 'climate science' or 'climate change science' are essentially meaningless.



From the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"Climate: conditions of the atmosphere at a particular location over a long period of time; it is the long-term summation of the atmospheric elements (and their variations) that, over short time periods, constitute weather. These elements are solar radiation, temperature, humidity, precipitation (type, frequency, and amount), atmospheric pressure, and wind (speed and direction)."

From Wikipedia:

"Climate (from Ancient Greek klima, meaning inclination) is commonly defined as the weather averaged over a long period.[4] The standard averaging period is 30 years,[5] but other periods may be used depending on the purpose"

From the Oxford Dictionary:

"The weather conditions prevailing in an area in general or over a long period"
21-10-2015 00:02
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@Into the Night - it is quite clear that I am NOT the person who can explain this to you. Might I defer any further comment so that you can take up your lack of understanding with any number of persons available at these resources:

1. International Journal of Climatology, or...

2. Journal of Climatology, or...

3. Journal of Climatology & Weather Forecasting.

And please, do get back to us all when you finally understand.


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
21-10-2015 00:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10270)
climate scientist wrote:
The question then drops to a simpler level: What is climate? Until this term is defined in any meaningful and agreeable way, terms like 'climate science' or 'climate change science' are essentially meaningless.



From the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"Climate: conditions of the atmosphere at a particular location over a long period of time; it is the long-term summation of the atmospheric elements (and their variations) that, over short time periods, constitute weather. These elements are solar radiation, temperature, humidity, precipitation (type, frequency, and amount), atmospheric pressure, and wind (speed and direction)."

From Wikipedia:

"Climate (from Ancient Greek klima, meaning inclination) is commonly defined as the weather averaged over a long period.[4] The standard averaging period is 30 years,[5] but other periods may be used depending on the purpose"

From the Oxford Dictionary:

"The weather conditions prevailing in an area in general or over a long period"


Fine. And thank you for the quotes (rather than links!). The key part of these definitions, though, is that the 'long period of time' isn't specified. The only number listed in these definitions is some 'average' of 30 years. Unfortunately, it does not specify a domain or any hard length of time.

For example, could a particular square inch on my front walk be considered 'climate' if I've been averaging measurements there for longer than 30 years? If so, what does that mean for the square inch next to it, where I've taken no measurements at all? This is what I mean by domain.
21-10-2015 00:07
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10270)
trafn wrote:
@Into the Night - it is quite clear that I am NOT the person who can explain this to you. Might I defer any further comment so that you can take up your lack of understanding with any number of persons available at these resources:

1. International Journal of Climatology, or...

2. Journal of Climatology, or...

3. Journal of Climatology & Weather Forecasting.

And please, do get back to us all when you finally understand.


I did say others. All you are doing here is washing your hands of the matter. Is this your intention?
21-10-2015 00:12
climate scientist
★★☆☆☆
(257)
Fine. And thank you for the quotes (rather than links!). The key part of these definitions, though, is that the 'long period of time' isn't specified. The only number listed in these definitions is some 'average' of 30 years. Unfortunately, it does not specify a domain or any hard length of time.

For example, could a particular square inch on my front walk be considered 'climate' if I've been averaging measurements there for longer than 30 years? If so, what does that mean for the square inch next to it, where I've taken no measurements at all? This is what I mean by domain.


You have something against links??

Well, unless you happen to have a very large thermometer, all temperature readings are going to be made over a few 10s of square inches, rather than a larger domain.

The fact that global temperature measurements are not reliable is a myth.

See here: http://www.skepticalscience.com/surface-temperature-measurements-advanced.htm

I'm afraid that I have posted another link!
21-10-2015 00:24
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@Into the Night - you're insisting because there is an obvious grey-area between the concepts of weather and climate (i.e. - so what is the difference between long-term and short-term?), that neither is relevant within the body of science. It's as if you want there to be some sort of Unified Field-of-Climate Theory before you admit that it exists. All I can say is as you pursue this lofty ambition, try not to get too weighed down by gravity.

Of interest, would you also like to discuss the existence of day and night within the body of science as technically neither exists. If so, please remember that:

1. Even at 2:00 a.m. it is still possible to see sun light.

2. Even at 2:00 a.m. you are still facing a sun.

Your turn!
21-10-2015 00:26
climate scientist
★★☆☆☆
(257)
Btw, to anyone who is interested, I really recommend watching the two videos in the link that I posted above.
21-10-2015 01:29
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@climate scientist - honestly, now, I looked at the first of those two videos and I can only tell you how disappointed I am in you. After all, really? You expect me to believe a single word Dr. David Morrill Anderson has to say when he has NEVER posted ANYTHING here on Climate-debate.com.

This man is an obvious impostor and Marxist (and maybe just an eensy-teensy-weensy bit gay - did anyone else catch that?)!

Why just have a look at his CV
:

NOAA National Climatic Data Center
325 Broadway, E/CC23
Boulder, CO 80305
303.497.6237 Tel 303.497.6513 Fax
Email: david.m.anderson@noaa.gov

EDUCATION:

1991 Ph.D. in Geological Sciences, Brown University
1989 M.Sc. in Geological Sciences, Brown University
1985 M.S. in Marine Sciences, San Jose State University
1981 B.Sc. in Biology, Tufts University


HONORS AND RECOGNITION:


Department of Commerce Gold Medal, For exceptional leadership and environmental stewardship in assessing the impacts of global climate change on the United States (with 7 others), 2010
NOAA Administrator.s Award, contributing to Climate Change Reports (with 22 others), 2008
Arthur Fleming Award for excellence in federal service (research), 2006
T.M. Harris Medal for best paper in palaeobotany 2004, Birbal Sahni Institute of Palaeobotany, Lucknow, India
NOAA CIYA Award for Web Team Leadership, 2004
NOAA CIYA Award for web site re-design, 2003
NOAA Administrator's Award for excellence in scientific research, 2003
Editor's Citation for Excellence in Refereeing, American Geophysical Union (Paleoceanography) 2000
Dept. of Commerce Sustained Superior Performance Award, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998,1999,2001,2002
Dept. of Commerce Silver Medal (1994)


PROFESSIONAL APPOINTMENTS:


2004-present Branch Chief, NOAA Paleoclimatology Branch, National Climatic Data Center
2004-present Director, World Data Center for Paleoclimatology, Boulder
2003-present Associate Professor Adjoint, Department of Geological Sciences, University of Colorado
2003-present Research Scientist III and Fellow, Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research, University of Colorado
2001-2002 Assistant Professor Adjoint, Department of Geological Sciences, University of Colorado
1993-present Graduate School Faculty Member, University of Colorado
1993-2002 Research Associate II, Institute of Arctic and Alpine Research, University of Colorado
1992-2004 Physical Scientist, NOAA Paleoclimatology Program
1992-1994 Adjunct Research Assistant Professor, University of South Carolina
1990-1991 Postdoctoral Associate, University of South Carolina
1985-1989 Teaching Assistant, Brown University
1985-1989 Research Assistant, Brown University
1987 Sedimentologist, Ocean Drilling Program Leg 117
1983-1985 Research Assistant, Moss Landing Marine Laboratories
1981-1983 Outward Bound Instructor, Hurricane Island (experiential education) and sailing instructor.


SERVICE:

2011 Mentor, Research Experiences in Solid Earth Sciences for Students (summer program)
2007-2009 Panel Member, United States Advisory Committee, Integrated Ocean Drilling Program
2006-2009 Executive Committee, Institute for Arctic and Alpine Research, University of Colorado
2006-2007 Co-Chair, Advisory Panel, CCSP Synthesis and Assessment Report on Abrupt Climate Change
2002-present Mentor, Environmental Careers Organization
2002-2004 Advisory Panel Member, CHRONOS (Project to distribute Earth Sciences data)
2002-2003 Mentor, SACNAS E-Mentoring Program (teacher-scientist partnership, Society for Advancement of Chicanos and Native Americans in Science).
2002 Advisor, National Research Council Fellowship Program
2000-2002 Paleoceanography and Paleoclimatology Committee, American Geophysical Union
1999-2000 Data Information Systems Steering Group, International Geosphere-Biosphere Programme
1999-2000 Chair, Southern Ocean Working Group, International Marine Global Changes Study (IMAGES).
1983-1986 Member of Scientific Measurements Panel, Joint Oceanographic Institutions for Deep Earth Sampling
1997-1998 Chair, Data Advisory Committee, International Marine Past Global Changes Program
1998-present Data Advisory Committee, International Marine Past Global Changes Program
1997-present World Wide Web Committee and Publications Committee, Institute for Arctic and Alpine Research, University of Colorado
1992-present Reviewer of journal articles, NSF proposals (about 12 per year)


NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL WORKSHOPS CONVEYNED:

2009 Ocean Acidification and Biogeochemical Cycles Thematic Working Group Meeting.
2007 Abrupt Climate Change Report Workshop, Climate Change Science Plan (with J. McGeehin).
1998 Second Workshop on Global Paleoenvironmental Data, Boulder, USA (with R. Webb).
1993 Global Paleoenvironmental Data, Bern, Switzerland (with J. Overpeck and R. Webb).


PROFESSIONAL MEMBERSHIPS:


American Geophysical Union
American Society for Limnology and Oceanography
Geological Society of America
Oceanography Society


FIELD EXPERIENCE:

Co-Chief Scientist, IMAGES V Cruise, Paleoceanography of the North Atlantic, Aug.-Sept. 1999.

Scientist, Genesis 03 Cruise, Paleoceanography of the SE Pacific (site survey for Ocean Drilling Program), Feb. -April, 1997.

Principal Investigator on NSF-sponsored Field expedition to analyze hydrography and oxygen isotope composition of coastal inlets in southern Chile, 1995.

Principal Investigator on NSF-sponsored "Research Experience for Undergraduates" Field expedition to analyze hydrography and oxygen isotope composition of coastal inlets in southern Chile, 1993.

Principal Investigator on NOAA-sponsored sediment trap deployment and recovery. (Pacific Ocean, 1991-1994). Responsible for the deployment and recovery of ocean sediment traps and moored instrument arrays.

Scientist, El Puma Cruise BAP91 (Gulf of California, February, 1991). Assisted in the deployment of moored sediment traps, conducted hydrocasts and water sampling, assisted in MOCNESS plankton sampling.

Sedimentologist, Ocean Drilling Program Leg 117 (Indian Ocean, August-October, 1987). Responsible for core description, sediment analysis.

Conrad Cruise RC2704 (Indian Ocean, May-June, 1986). Assisted in seismic surveys, piston and box coring, responsible for hydrocasts and plankton tows.

Assistant, VERTEX Leg 4 (North Pacific, June 1984). Assisted in hydrocasts and CTD profiling, shipboard analysis of salinity, chlorophyll, dissolved oxygen.


GRANTS AND AWARDS:

2011 [NSF] Global Warming in an Independent Record [$40,000]

2009-2012 [NOAA] Applied Research Center for Paleoclimatology [$350,000], Lead PI, with G. Wahl and C. Morrill.

2001-2009 [NOAA] Applied Research Center for Paleoclimatology [$350,000], Lead PI, with C. Woodhouse.

2001-2005 [NOAA] Applied Research Center for Paleoclimatology [$350,000], Lead PI, with C. Woodhouse.

2000-2001 [NOAA] Surf Your Reef: Access to Regionally-Integrated Coral Reef Data [$180,000]. Lead PI, with M. Eakin, A. A. Strong, T. Picciolo, J. Hendee, and S. Rohmann.

2000-2002 [NSF] Ice-Ocean-Atmosphere Interactions Along the East Greenland Margin on Decade to Century Timescales Over the Last 14,000 years [$463,664]. With A. Jennings (lead) and J. T. Andrews.

1992-2001 [NOAA] NOAA Paleoclimatology Program [$750,000/yr.]. With R. S. Webb and J. T. Overpeck (lead).

1998 [NSF] Long IMAGES Cores from Continental Shelves Bordering Denmark Strait [$200,000]. With J. Andrews (lead), A. Jennings, J. Syvitski, and J. Hardardottir.

1995 [NSF ATM9509504] Extending the baseline of climate variability using laminated sediments from semi-isolated marine basins in Southern Chile [$40,000].

1993-1995 [NOAA] Decadal to century-scale climate variability during the Holocene: A sediment trap and sediment core study of Santa Barbara Basin [$90,000]. With R. Thunell (lead PI).

1993. [NSF] Research Experience for Undergraduates Award: Hydrography and oxygen isotope composition of inlets in southern Chile [$4,000]. Lead PI, with V. Markgraf.

1991-1993 (NSF) Planktonic foraminiferal response to oceanic upwelling and its sedimentary record ($241,895). With R. Thunell (lead PI).

1987-1989 (USSAC) Support for O.D.P. Leg 117, Neogene Upwelling [$10,000].


PUBLICATIONS: (in Peer-Reviewed journals)

Anderson, D. M., Bauer, B. A., Buckner, C. R., Gille, E., Gross, W. S., Hartman, M., Morrill, C., Shah, A. M., and Wahl, E. R., 2011. Web 2.0 Collaborations Address Uncertainty in Climate Reconstructions of the Past Millennium. Earth Science Informatics.4(4), pages 161-167, DOI: 10.1007/s12145-011-0086-3

Wahl, E. R., D. M. Anderson, et al., 2010. An archive of high-resolution temperature reconstructions over the past 2+ millennia.Geochem. Geophys. Geosyst. 11, Q01001, 10.1029/2009GC002817.

Anderson, D. M., C. K. Baulcomb, et al., 2010. Indian Summer Monsoon During the Last Two Millennia. Journal of Quaternary Science 24(1-7).

Anderson, D. M., and Zhang, H. .M., 2009. Shallow ocean overturning and the heat and carbon content of the Glacial Tropical Ocean. Global and Planetary Change, 69:1-2, pages 29-34.

Gupta, Anil K., Anderson, David M., Pandey, Deep N., and Ashok K. Singhvi, 2006. Adaptation and human migration, and evidence of agriculture coincident with changes in the Indian summer monsoon during the Holocene. Current Science, 90(8):1082-1090.

Das, M., A. K. Gupta and D. M. Anderson, 2006. Deep-Sea Paleoceanographic and Surface Productivity Changes in the Northwestern Arabian Sea Driven by the Indian Southwest Monsoon During the last Millennium. Journal Geological Society of India. 68(3): 387-394.

Gupta, A. K., Das, M., and D. M. Anderson, 2005. Solar influence on the Indian summer monsoon during the Holocene. Geophysical Research Letters, 32(7), L17703, 10.1029/2005GL022685.

Anderson, D. M., and Woodhouse, C. A., 2005. Climate change: Let all the voices be heard. Nature, 433:587-588.

Gupta, A.K., and Anderson, D.M., 2005. Mysteries of the Indian monsoon system. Journal Geological Society of India, 65, 54-60.

Overpeck, J., K.B. Liu, C. Morrill, J. Cole, C. Shen, D. Anderson, and L. Tang. 2005. Holocene environmental change in the Himalayan-Tibetan Plateau region: Lake sediments and the future. In: Global Change and Mountain Regions: An overview of current knowledge, U.M. Huber, H.K.M. Bugmann, and M.A. Reasoner, eds., Springer, Netherlands, pp. 83-92.

Pandey, D. N., Gupta, A. K., and D. M. Anderson, 2003. Rainwater harvesting as an adaptation to climate change. Current Science, 85(1):46-59.

Gupta, A. K., Anderson, D. M., and J. T. Overpeck, 2003. Abrupt Changes in the Holocene Asian Southwest Monsoon and Their Links to the North Atlantic. Nature, 421:354-357.

Moy, C. M., Seltzer, G. O., Rodbell, D. T., and D. M. Anderson, 2002. Oscillation in ENSO Activity at Millennial Time Scales During the Holocene. Nature, 420:162-165.

Anderson, D. M., and Overpeck, J. T., and A. K. Gupta, 2002. Increase in the Asian SW Monsoon During the Past Four Centuries. Science, 297:596-599.

Anderson, D. M., and Archer, D. 2002. Glacial-intergacial stability of ocean pH inferred from foraminifer dissolution rates. Nature, 416:70-73.

Dean, Walter E., Anderson, Roger Y., Bradbury, J. Platt, and David M. Anderson, 2002. A 1500-year record of climatic and environmental change in Elk Lake, Minnesota I: Varve thickness and gray-scale density. Journal of Paleolimnology, 27:287-299.

Gupta, Anil K., Dhingra, Hitesh, Melice, Jean-Luc, and David M. Anderson, 2001. Earth's eccentricity cycles and Indian Summer Monsoon variability over the past 2 million years: Evidence from deep-sea benthic foraminifer. Geophysical Research Letters, 28(11):4131-4135.

Smith, L. M., A. E. Jennings, J. P. Sachs, Anderson, D. M., and A. DeVernal. 2001. Anomalously low d13C events during deglaciation of the east Greenland continental shelf adjacent to the Denmark Strait. Geophysical Research Letters, 28(11): 2217-2220.

Anderson, D. M. 2001. Attenuation of Millennial Scale Events by Bioturbation in Marine Sediments. Paleoceanography, 16:352-357.

Rodbell, D.T., G.O. Seltzer, D.M. Anderson, M.B. Abbott, D.B. Enfield, and J.H. Newman, 1999. An 15,000-year record of El Nino-driven alluviation in Southwestern Ecuador, Science, 283:516-520.

Anderson, D. M. and R. B. Archer 1999. Preliminary evidence of early deglaciation in Southern Chile. Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology 146: 295-301.

Overpeck, J. T., Anderson, D. M., Trombore, S., and Prell, W. L., 1996. The Southwest Monsoon over the last 18,000 years. Climate Dynamics, 12:213-225.

Mortyn, P. G., Thunell, R. C., Anderson, D. M., Stott, L. D., Le, J., 1996. Sea surface temperatures in the Southern California Borderlands during the last glacial-interglacial cycle. Paleoceanography, 11:415-430.

Emeis, K., Anderson, D. M., Doose, H., Kroon, D., and D. Shulz-Bull, 1995. Sea surface temperatures and the history of monsoon upwelling in the northwest Arabian Sea during the last 500,000 years. Quaternary Research, 43:355-361.

Anderson, D. M., 1995. Sensitivity of ocean upwelling to climate forcing on millenial timescales. In Summerhayes, C. P., Emeis, K. -C., Angel, M. V., Smith, R. L., and Zeitschel, B., eds., Upwelling in the Ocean: Modern Processes and Ancient Records. J. Wiley and Sons, Chichester, p. 259-272.

Peterson, L. C., M. R. Abbott, D. M. Anderson, J.-P. Caulet, M. Conte, K. C. Emeis, A. E. S. Kemp, and C. P. Summerhayes, 1995, Group Report: How do upwelling systems vary through time?, in C. P. Summerhayes, K.-C. Emeis, M. V. Angel, R. L. Smith, and B. Zeitschel, eds., Upwelling in the Ocean: Modern Processes and Ancient Records, Chichester, J. Wiley and Sons, p. 285-312.

Thunell, R. C., Tappa, E., and D. M. Anderson, 1995, Sediment fluxes and varve formation in Santa Barbara Basin, offshore California: Geology, v. 23, p. 1083-1086.

Thunell, R. T., Anderson, D. M., Gellar, D., and M. Qingmin, 1994. Sea surface temperature estimates for the tropical western Pacific during the last Glaciation and their implications for the Pacific warm pool. Quaternary Research, 41:255-264.

Miao, Q., Thunell, R. C., and D. M. Anderson, 1994. Glacial-Holocene carbonate dissolution patterns and sea surface temperatures in the south China and Sulu Seas, Paleoceanography, 9:269-290.

Anderson, D. M., and R. S. Webb, 1994. Ice-age tropics revisited. Nature, 367:23-24.

Webb, R. S., Overpeck, J.T., Anderson, D.M., and others, 1993. World Data Center-A for Paleoclimatology at the NOAA Paleoclimatology Program, Boulder, Co, Journal of Paleolimnology, 9:69-75.

Webb, R. S., Anderson, D.M., and J. T. Overpeck. Editorial: Archiving data at the World Data Center-A for Paleoclimatology. Paleoceanography, 9(3):391-393.

Anderson, D. M., and W. L. Prell, 1993. A 300 k.y. record of upwelling off Oman during the late Quaternary: evidence of the Asian Southwest Monsoon. Paleoceanography, 8(2):193-208.

Anderson, D. M., Webb, R. S., Overpeck, J. T., and B. A. Bauer, 1993. The NOAA Paleoclimatology Program: Using evidence from the past as a key to understanding and predicting future climate change. Earth System Monitor, 3(3):6-8.

Brock, J. C., McClain, C. R., Anderson, D. M., Prell, W. L., and W. W. Hay, 1992. Southwest monsoon circulation and environments of Recent planktonic foraminifera in the Northwestern Arabian Sea. Paleoceanography, 7(6):799-813.

Anderson, D. M., Brock, J. C., and W. L. Prell, 1992. Physical upwelling processes, upper ocean environment, and the sediment record of the southwest monsoon. In Summerhayes, C. et al., eds., Upwelling Systems : Evolution Since the Early Miocene, Geological Society Special Publication no. 64, p. 121-129.

Anderson, D. M., and W. L. Prell, 1992. The structure of the SW monsoon winds over the Arabian Sea during the late Quaternary: observations, simulations, and marine geologic evidence. J. Geophysical Res., 97(C10):15,481-15,487.

Anderson, D. M., 1992. Changes in upwelling and ocean productivity over hundreds to thousands of years: the marine geologic record of climate change. Marine Technology Society, 1992.

Prell, W. L., Murray, D. W., Clemens, S. C., and D. M. Anderson, 1992. Evolution and variability of the Indian Ocean summer monsoon: Evidence from the western Arabian Sea. In Synthesis of Results from Scientific Frilling in the Indian Ocean, Geophysical Monograph 70, American Geophysical Union, pp. 447-469.

Bradley, R. S., ed., 1991. Global Changes of the Past. UCAR/ Office for Interdisciplinary Studies, Boulder, 514p. Participated in Report on Major Perturbations of the Hydrosphere-Atmosphere-Biosphere System.

Anderson, D. M. and W. L. Prell, 1991. The Coastal upwelling gradient during the Late Pleistocene. In Prell, W. L., Niitsuma, N., et al. Proc. ODP, Scientific Results, 117: College Station, TX (Ocean Drilling Program), 265-276.

Anderson, D. M., Prell., W. L., and N. J. Barratt, 1989. Estimates of sea surface temperature in the Coral Sea at the Last Glacial Maximum. Paleoceanography, 4:615-627.

Prell, W. L., Niitsuma, N., et al. 1989. Proc. Ocean Drilling Program, Init. Repts., 117: College Station, TX (Ocean Drilling Program), 1236p.


INVITED REVIEWS AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS:

Gupta, A. K., Pandey, D. N., and D. M. Anderson, 2009. Monsoon Failures and Rainwater Harvesting. Geography and You. P. 28-32.

Karl, T. R., Melillo, J. M., and Peterson, T. C., eds, 2009. Global Climate Change Impacts in the United States. Cambridge University Press.

Anderson, D. M., Feely, R., Hoenisch, B., and S. Tudhope, Eds. 2009. The Role of Scientific Ocean Drilling in Ocean Acidification. Report of the Thematic Working Group, U. S. Science Support Program, Integrated Ocean Drilling Program.

Peterson, T.C. et al., 2008. Why Weather and Climate Extremes Matter. In: T.R. Karl et al. (Editors), Weather and Climate Extremes in a Changing Climate. Regions of Focus: North America, Hawaii, Caribbean, and U.S. Pacific Islands. A Report by the U.S. Climate Change Science Program and the Subcommittee on Global Change Research, Washington, DC.

Easterling, D.R. et al., 2008. Measures to Improve Our Understanding of Weather and Climate Extremes. In: T.R. Karl et al. (Editors), Weather and Climate Extremes in a Changing Climate. Regions of Focus: North America, Hawaii, Caribbean, and U.S. Pacific Islands. A Report by the U.S. Climate Change Science Program and the Subcommittee on Global Change Research, Washington, DC.

Dittert, N., et al. (2008), What can data tell us about past climate that is useful for the future? Data Management in Paleoclimatology, PAGES News, 16, 30-31.

Elias, S., 2006. Encyclopedia of Quaternary Sciences, Elsevier (Anderson was editor for 36 Paleoceanography articles).

Anderson, D. M., 2006. Overview of Paleoceanography. In Elias, S., ed. Encyclopedia of Quaternary Sciences, Elsevier.

Anderson, D. M., 2006. Late Pleistocene Paleoceanography of the North Atlantic. In Elias, S., ed., Encyclopedia of Quaternary Sciences, Elsevier.

Overpeck, J., K.B. Liu, C. Morrill, J. Cole, C. Shen, D. Anderson, and L. Tang. 2005. Holocene environmental change in the Himalayan-Tibetan Plateau region: Lake sediments and the future. In: Global Change and Mountain Regions: An overview of current knowledge, U.M. Huber, H.K.M. Bugmann, and M.A. Reasoner, eds., Springer, Netherlands, pp. 83-92.

Anderson, D. M., 1997. Review of Late Quaternary Paleoceanography of the North Atlantic, edited by J. T. Andrews, W. E. N. Austin, H. Bergsten, and A. E. Jennings, in Arctic and Alpine Research, 29(4):495-496.

Anderson, D. M. 1991. Foraminifer evidence of monsoon upwelling off Oman during the late Quaternary. Unpublished PhD thesis. Brown University.

Anderson, D. M., 1985. Pliocene paleoceanography of the Southern Ocean and the development of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. Unpublished MS thesis. San Jose State University.

Elias, S., 2007. Encyclopedia of Quaternary Sciences, Elsevier (Anderson was editor for 36 Paleoceanography articles).

Anderson, D. M., 2007. Overview of Paleoceanography. In Elias, S., ed. Encyclopedia of Quaternary Sciences.

Anderson, D. M., 2007. Late Pleistocene Paleoceanography of the North Atlantic. In Elias, S., ed., Encyclopedia of Quaternary Sciences, Elsevier.


ABSTRACTS AND PRESENTATIONS:

Anderson, D. M., E. M. Mauk, E. R. Wahl, C. Morrill, A. J. Wagner, D. Easterling, T. Rutishauser. 2011. Global Warming in an Independent Record of the Past 130 Years. Eos. Trans. AGU, Fall Meeting Suppl.

Anderson, D. M., Mauk, E., Wahl, E. R., and C. Morrill, 2011. Reconstructing Climate Variability Since 1880 Through Paleoclimate Proxies. WRCP Open Science Conference.

Gross, W. S., Anderson, D. M., Bauer, B., Buckner, R., Gille, E., Hartman, M., Morrill, C., Shah, A., Wahl, E., 2011. Enabling Data Intensive Science at NOAA.s World Data Center for Paleoclimatology. WCRP Open Science Conference.

Anderson, D. M., 2011. (invited) Paleoclimatology: Sources of Evidence and Implications for Future Climate Change. American Chemical Society Annual Meeting, Denver, August 28, 2011.

Anderson, D. M., 2010. (invited) Global Climate Change Impacts in the United States. Public Lecture, Wildlife Experience (museum), Denver, March 2010.

Anderson, D. M., 2010. Revised Reconstruction of the Glacial Ocean Deep Sea Carbonate Ion Concentration Based on Fossil Foraminifer Assemblages, Eos. Trans. AGU, Fall Meeting Suppl.

Anderson, D. M., 2010. Seawater carbonate ion concentrations in the Glacial Ocean reconstructed using fossil foraminifer assemblages, AGU Ocean Sciences Meeting, Portland. OR. PO21C-03.

Anderson, D. M., 2010. Climate, Environment, and Ecosystem Change from Paleo Proxy Collections. Scientific Collections International Conference, Brussels, Feb. 8-9, 2010.

Anderson, D. M., 2010. Ocean Acidification and Biogeochemical Cycles. INSTAAR Monday Colloquium, Boulder, CO, Feb. 15, 2010.

Anderson, D. M., 2010. A Perspective on climate and marine biogeochemistry (ocean acidification) change from paleo proxy evidence. American Meteorological Society Annual Meeting, Atlanta, 8B.4.

Anderson, D. M., 2009. Global Climate Change Impacts in the United States. Geology Department Colloquium, Colorado School of Mines, Golden, CO, Oct. 8, 2010.

Anderson, D. M., 2009. Marine geologic evidence of the timing of temperature and carbon dioxide change during the Quaternary. PAGES Open Science Meeting, Corvallis, July 2009

Anderson, D. M., 2009. Access to Climate and Paleoclimate Data. PAGES Young Scientist.s Meeting, Corvallis, July 2009.

Anderson, D. M., 2008. Paleoclimate Records of Abrupt Climate Change. Presentation at NOAA Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory, Princeton, Oct. 2008.

Anderson, D. M., 2008. Paleoclimate data for data-model comparisons. Paleoclimate Modeling Intercomparison Project II Workshop, Estes Park, Sept. 2008.

Koc, N. et al., 2008. Generating and Synthesizing Paleoclimate Data to Assess Arctic Climate Change. Eos Trans. AGU, 89(27).

Anderson, D.M., 2008. Deep sea carbonate ion concentrations reconstructed using foraminifer faunas and the modern analog technique. Eos Trans. AGU, 89(53).

Anderson, D. M. and H. Zhang (2007). Shallow Ocean Overturning and the Heat Flux and Carbon Content of the Glacial Warm Pool Since the Last Glacial Maximum. EOS Trans. AGU, 88(52), Fall Meet. Suppl., Abstract PP13B-1275.

Anderson, D. M., D.Ippolito, C. K., DuVivier, A. K., and Gupta, A. K. (2007), Century-scale trends in the Indian Summer Monsoon during the last 2,000 years, Eos Trans. AGU, 88(52), Fall Meet. Suppl., Abstract PP11B-0525.

Anil K. Gupta, Moumita Das, Baidehi Mukherjee, D.M. Anderson, S.C. Clemens (2007). Changing face of the Indian summer monsoon: Its impact on marine life, vegetation and human societies in South Asia during the latest Pleistocene and the Holocene, International Conference "Terrestrial Planets: Evolution through time", Physical Research Laboratory, Ahmedabad, India, 22-25 January, 2007.

Anderson, D. M., C. K. D.Ippolito, A. K. DuVivier, and A. K. Gupta, 2007. Centennial-scale trends in the Indian summer monsoon and the Inter-tropical Convergence Zone during the last 2,000 years. 15th Conference on Air-Sea Interaction, sponsored by the American Meteorological Society.

Anderson, D. M., and C. Morrill, 2007. Paleohydrology Data at the NOAA Paleoclimatology Program and World Data Center for Paleoclimatology. SCOR-IMAGES Workshop on Intra- and interhemispheric variability of SST and the hydrological 20 cycle over the last 4 Myr.

Anderson, D. M., 2007. Intra- and interhemispheric variability of SST and the hydrological cycle over the last 4 Myr. SCOR-IMAGES Workshop on Intra- and interhemispheric variability of SST and the hydrological 20 cycle over the last 4 Myr, Innsbruck.

Karl, T., and D. M. Anderson, 2007. Abrupt Climate Change. Presentation at the Department of Commerce for the Deputy Secretary.

Anderson, D. M., 2007. Abrupt climate change. Public lecture sponsored by the American Meteorological Society, Asheville, NC.

Anderson, D. M., McGehin, J., and D. Verardo, 2006. Abrupt Climate Change. Two presentations at the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.

Anderson, D. M., 2006. Reconstructions of the glacial ocean carbonate ion concentration. Ocean Acidification Workshop, Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory.

Anderson, D. M., B. A. Bauer, et al. (2005). "The role of Internet paleo perspective overviews in making data about past climate and environmental change more accessible." EOS Transactions AGU 86(52): Fall Meeting Suppl., Abstract ED34A-06.

D'Ippolito, C. K., A. K. DuVivier, et al. (2005). "Progress towards quantitative reconstruction of the Asian summer monsoon winds from Arabian Sea sediments during the Holocene." EOS Transactions AGU 86(52): Fall Meeting Supplement, Abstract PP41C-07.

Jennings, A. J., J. T. Andrews, et al. (2005). "Holocene paleoceanography of the Southeast Greenland Shelf." EOS Transactions AGU 86(52): Fall Meeting Suppl., Abstract PP44A-04.

Barron, J. A., D. M. Anderson, et al. (2005). Risks of abrupt climate change. Climate Science in Support of Decision-Making, Washington, D.C.

Anderson, D. M., 2005. A Paleo Perspective on the ocean's role in the carbon cycle. Seventh International Carbon Dioxide Conference, Boulder, CO.

Russell, Ann D. Matthew L. Schmidt, Howard J. Spero, and David M. Anderson, 2005. Timing of glacial changes in SST and pCO2 from foraminiferal U/Ca, Mg/Ca and d18O in a Caribbean core. Goldschmidt Conference.

Anderson, D. M., 2005. Monsoon dynamics observed over decades to millions of years. Chapman Conference on tropical-extratropical climatic teleconnections, a long-term perspective, Honolulu.

Anderson, D.M., Gupta, A.K., and Overpeck, J.T., 2004, Centennial to millennial scale variations in the Indian Summer Monsoon winds and solar variability, EOS Trans. AGU, Volume 85(47).

Anderson, D.M., 2004, Atmospheric carbon dioxide and ocean carbonate ion concentration during the last glacial cycle, Geological Society of America Annual Meeting: Denver.

Anderson, D.M., Overpeck, J.T., Gupta, A.K., and Pandey, D., 2004, Abrupt changes in the Asian summer monsoon winds during the Holocene, 8th International Conference on Paleoceanography: Biarritz, France, p. 129.

Anderson, D.M., Overpeck, J.T., and Gupta, A.K., 2004, The Asian Summer Monsoon winds during the past millennium, 1st International CLIVAR Science Conference: Baltimore.

Anderson, D. M., 2003. Climate change on the Tibetan and Ethopian Plateaus during the past 400,000 years. American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) Annual Meeting.

Gupta, A.K., Anderson, D.M., Overpeck, J.T., Pandey, D.M., 2003, South Asian summer monsoon change and population response in the Indian subcontinent during the Holocene. Workshop on Monsoon Variability during the Holocene, Mangalore University, India.

McCaffrey, M., Anderson, D.M., and Eakin, C.M., 2003. Partnering with scientists to increase the visibility and use of published global climate change data, EOS Trans. AGU, 84(46), Fall Meet. Suppl., Abstract ED51C-1203.

Anderson, D.M., Overpeck, J.T., Gupta, A.K., and Pandey, D., 2003. Abrupt changes in the Asian summer monsoon winds during the Holocene, EOS Trans. AGU, 84(46), Fall Meet. Suppl.,.Abstract PP42B-0875.

Gupta, A.K., Anderson, D.M., and Overpeck, J.T., 2003, Abrupt Changes in the Indian Ocean summer monsoon during the Holocene and their links to the North Atlantic, IMAGES Holocene Workshop.

Anderson, D.M., Overpeck, J.T., and Gupta, A.K., 2003, Abrupt Holocene changes in the Indian Ocean SW monsoon and their links to the North Atlantic, XVI INQUA Congress Programs with Abstracts, p. 97.

Anderson, D.M., Overpeck, J.T., and Gupta, A.K., 2002, The Asian summer monsoon winds during the past millennium, Volume 83, EOS, p. F915.

Anderson, D. M., Overpeck, J. T., and A. K. Gupta, 2002. Increase in the Asian Southwest Monsoon During the Past Four Centuries. GSA Abstracts with Programs, p. 138.

Anderson, D. M., and Archer, D., 2001. Glacial Ocean Carbonate Ion Saturation Reconstructed from Foraminifer Preservation. EOS, 82(47):F642.

Brunner, C. A., Anderson, D. M., and M. S. Andres, 2001. Late Quaternary Paleoceanography Offshore from a Temperate-water Carbonate Shelf, EOS, 82(47):F733.

Moy, C. M., Rodbell, D. T., Seltzer, G. O., Roehl, U., Anderson, D. M., 2001. Lacustrine Records of Holocene ENSO variability from the Southern Ecuadorian Andes. EOS, 82(47):F751.

Kowal, D., McCaffrey, M., Anderson, D. M., and R. E. Habermann, 2001. The development of a climate time-line information tool. EOS, 82(47):F232.

Brunner, C.A., Anderson, D. M., and Andres, M. S., 2001. Paleoceanography of a cool-water carbonate ramp during the past 130,000 years. Journal of the Mississippi Academy of Sciences, 47(1):67.

Anderson, D. M., and Habermann, R. E., 2001. What is the Role of the National Geophysical Data Center in Geoinformatics? Geological Society of America Abstracts with Programs.

Anderson, D. M., Eakin, C. M., and Woodhouse, C., 2001. World Data Center for Paleoclimatology: Integrating Heterogeneous Types of Data. Geological Society of America Abstracts with Programs.

Anderson, D. M., Eakin, C. M., and Woodhouse, C., 2001. Paleoclimate data available from the World Data Center for Paleoclimatology. First International Conference on Global Warming and the Next Ice Age.

Brunner, C. A., Anderson, D. M., and Andres, M. S., 2001. Late Quaternary Paleoceanography Offshore from a Temperate-water Carbonate Reef. In: U. G. Wortmann and H. Funk, eds., Abstracts and Programme of the International Association of Sedimentologists Annual Meeting, p. 193.

Anderson, D. M., Gupta, A., and J. T. Overpeck, 2001. Increase in the SW Asian Monsoon During the Past 2,000 Years. Neogene Climate of the Indian Ocean and the Indian Subcontinent Symposium. Kharagpur, India.

Anderson, D. M., Smith, L. M., Jennings, A. E., and Hilberman, R. 2000. Arctic outflow via the East Greenland Current Recorded in Foraminifer Stable Isotopes. EOS, v. 81, p. F616.

Jennings, A. J., Andrews, J. T., Anderson, D. M., and Koc, N., 2000. Ice-Ocean-Atmosphere Interactions Along the East Greenland Margin on Decade to Century Timescales Over the last 14 ka. EOS, v. 81, p. F606.

Anderson, D. M., Eakin, C. M., and Woodhouse, C., 2000. Paleoenvironmental data available from the NOAA Paleoclimatology Program. Eastern Pacific Oceanography Conference.

Anderson, D. M., 2000. Attenuation of millennial scale events by bioturbation in marine sediments. EOS, v. 81(19), p. S274.

Eakin, C. M., Anderson, D. M., Bauer, R. J., Scharfen, G. R., and Scambos, T. A., 2000. New Ice Core Data Gateway. EOS, v. 81, F. 598.

Moy, C., Rodbell, D., Seltzer, G., and Anderson, D., 2000. A Holocene Record of millennial to sub-decadal El Nino- Southern Oscillation variability from the southern Andes. Geological Society of America Abstracts With Programs.

Smith, L. M., A. E. Jennings, J. P. Sachs, D. M. Anderson, J. T. Andrews, and M. Hald, 1999, Anomalously low d13C events during deglaciation of the east Greenland continental shelf adjacent to the Denmark Strait (68°N): EOS, v. 80, p. F11.

Nolan, S., D. M. Anderson, S. DeRijk, N. G. Pisias, and L. Labeyrie, 1999, Marine geologic and paleoceanographic data produced by the International Marine Global Change Study (IMAGES): EOS, v. 80, p. F521.

Anderson, D.M., Webb, R.S., Cortijo, E. and Overpeck, J.T., 1998. Tropical sea surface temperatures at the Last Glacial Maximum reconstructed by removing the attenuation caused by bioturbation. In: B. Marcolli (Editor), PAGES Open Science Meeting. PAGES International Project Office, London, pp. 37-38.

Anderson, D.M., Webb, R.S., Cortijo, E. and Overpeck, J.T., 1998. Tropical sea surface temperatures at the Last Glacial Maximum reconstructed by removing the attenuation caused by bioturbation. In: F. Abrantes (Editor), Sixth International Conference on Paleoceanography. Instituto Geologico e Mineiro, Lisbon, pp. 70.

Anderson, D.M., Webb, R.S. and Overpeck, J.T., 1998. The PAGES Data and Information Management System. In: B. Marcolli (Editor), PAGES Open Science Meeting. PAGES International Project Office, London, pp. 38.

Anderson, D.M., and Archer, R.B., 1997, The Last Deglaciation in Southern Chile, Development of Paleoceanography as a New Field of Science: Stockholm, Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, p. 27.

Anderson, D.M., Webb, R.S., Cortijo, E., and Overpeck, J.T., 1997, The sensitivity of tropical foraminifers to glacial cooling: EOS, v. 78(46), p. F49.Anderson, D.M., Webb, R.S., Cortijo, E. and Overpeck, J.T., 1998. Effect of mixing (bioturbation) on marine geologic reconstructions of the last glacial maximum. EOS, 79(45): F471.

Anderson, D. M., Webb, R. S., and D. Rind, 1996. Marine Geologic Evidence of the Zonal Surface Winds at the Last Glacial Maximum. Geological Society of America Annual Meeting Abstracts with Programs, p. A272.

Anderson, D. M., 1996. The effect of southern insolation on north Atlantic deep water production and Quaternary Glaciation. EOS, 77(46):F415.

Kincaid, E., Thunell, R. C., Le, J., and D. Anderson, 1995. Planktonic foraminiferal response to physical forcing in the Santa Barbara Basin. EOS, 76:184.

Thunell, R. C., Le, J., Patrick, D., Evans, J., and D. Anderson, 1995. Tropical Pacific sea surface temperatures at the Last Glacial Maximum. EOS, 76:180.

Anderson, D. M., Webb, R. S., and D. Rind, 1995. Were the (Zonal) surface winds stronger during the last glacial maximum? EOS, 76:F299.

Anderson, D. M., Archer, R. B., and P. Chang, 1994. Depletion of ocean 18O/16O by coastal runoff in southern Chile. 24th Arctic Workshop, p. 3.

Mortyn, P. G., Thunell, R. C., Stott, L. D., Anderson, D. M., and J. Kennedy, 1994. Glacial sea surface temperatures in the Southern California Borderlands. EOS, 75(16):201.

Anderson, D. M., 1994. Sensitivity of coastal and open-ocean upwelling indicated by atmospheric general circulation model paleoclimate simulations and geologic evidence. EOS.

Thunell, R. C., Gellar, D., Miao, Q., and Anderson, D. M., 1993. Glacial sea surface temperatures in the Tropical Western Pacific: Implications for the Pacific warm pool and Walker Circulation. EOS, 74(16):174.

Mortyn, P. G., Thunell, R. C., Anderson, D. M., and L. D. Stott, 1993. Paleoceanographic history of the southern California Borderlands during the last 25,000 years, EOS, 74(43):322.

Anderson, D. M., and Archer, R. B., 1993. The plankton environment of the Archipielago de Magallanes. In 23rd Annual Arctic Workshop Program and Abstracts, Byrd Polar Research Center Miscellaneous Series Publication No. 322, Byrd Polar Research Center, The Ohio State University, Columbus, p. 83.

Anderson, D. M., and R. B. Archer, 1993. The plankton environment and marine geologic record of the Archipielago de Magallanes, Chile. EOS, 74(43):372.

Pride, C., R. C. Thunell, E. Tappa, and D. M. Anderson, 1993. Laminated sediments of the Gulf of California: How many laminae make a varve? EOS, 74(43):372.

Anderson, D. M., Webb, R. S., Overpeck, J. T., and B. A. Bauer, 1993. The NOAA Paleoclimatology Program: Using evidence from the past as a key to understanding and predicting future climate change. Earth System Monitor, 3(3):6-8.

Anderson, D. M., 1992. The oxygen-isotopic composition of tropical ocean surface waters during the last deglaciation. EOS, 73(14):154.

Thunell, R. C., Pride, C., Tappa, E., Anderson, D., and F. Muller-Karger, 1992. Varve formation: the key to deciphering annual-decadal scale climate variability in the Gulf of California. EOS, 73(14):151-2.

Miao, Q., Thunell, R. C., and Anderson, D. M., 1992. Glacial-Holocene paleoceanography of the western equatorial Pacific: carbonate dissolution and sea surface temperatures in the South China and Sulu Seas. G.S.A. Abstracts with Programs.

Anderson, D. M., Thunell, R. C., Miao, Q., and Anderson, K., 1992. Reconstructing past ocean temperatures using foraminifer fossil plankton: advantages of response surface methodology. Fourth International Congress on Paleoceanography, p. 47-48.

Anderson, D. M., 1992. Changes in upwelling and ocean productivity over hundreds to thousands of years: the marine geologic record of climate change. Marine Technology Society, 1992.

Anderson, D. M., Thunell, R. C., and L. R. Sautter, 1991. Natural cycles in foraminifer production, EOS 72(17):156.

Brock, J. C., McClain, C. R., Anderson, D. M., and W. W. Hay, 1991. Southwest monsoon oceanic processes and Recent planktonic foraminifera ecology in the Northwest Arabian Sea EOS 72(17):157.

Overpeck, J., Anderson, D., Trumbore, S., Wolfli, W., and W. Prell. 1991. Abrupt climate change in the monsoon climates of Africa and Asia during the last deglaciation. XIII INQUA Congress, Beijing.

Anderson, D. M., and W. L. Prell. 1990. Foraminifer fluxes in the Arabian Sea upwelling region during the late Pleistocene. Geological Society Conference on the Evolution of Upwelling Systems, London.

Anderson, D. M., and W. L. Prell. 1990. Shell accumulation related to monsoon upwelling. Climate Systems on Orbital Timescales Symposium, Brown University. Overpeck, J., Anderson, D., Trumbore, S., Wolfli, W., and W. Prell. 1990. A new, continuous high-resolution record of the SW Indian monsoon and abrupt climatic change over the last deglaciation. G.S.A. Abstracts with Programs, 22(7):A172.

Overpeck, J., Anderson, D., Trumbore, S., Wolfli, W., and W. Prell, 1990. The Southwest Indian monsoon, the Tibetan Plateau, and abrupt climate change over the last deglaciation. Beijing International Symposium on Climatic Change, Beijing.

Anderson, D., and J. Overpeck, J. 1990. Upwelling in the Northwest Arabian Sea during the last 20 k.y. related to the Asian Monsoon winds. XIII INQUA Congress, Beijing.

Anderson, D. M., and W. L. Prell, 1990. Asian monsoon winds and the structure of the Findlater jet during the late Pleistocene. EOS, 71 (43):1397.

Anderson, D. M., and W. L. Prell, 1989. Foraminifer abundance in the Arabian Sea upwelling region during the Late Pleistocene. G.S.A. Abstracts with Programs, vol. 21, p. A194.

Anderson, D. M., and W. L. Prell. 1989. Foraminifer fluxes, sea surface temperature estimates, and the biogeography of Arabian Sea upwelling during the Late Pleistocene. EOS 70(43):1134-1135.

Anderson, D. M., Barratt, N. J. and W. L. Prell, 1987. Estimates of sea surface temperature in the Coral Sea at the Last Glacial Maximum. EOS 68(16):333.

Anderson, D. M. and M. T. Ledbetter, 1985. Pliocene paleoceanography of the Southern Ocean and the development of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. EOS 66(18):293.

All that and not one ounce of science!



The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!

Edited on 21-10-2015 01:33
21-10-2015 03:29
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
trafn wrote:
@Into the Night - it is quite clear that I am NOT the person who can explain this to you. Might I defer any further comment so that you can take up your lack of understanding with any number of persons available at these resources:

1. International Journal of Climatology, or...

2. Journal of Climatology, or...

3. Journal of Climatology & Weather Forecasting.

And please, do get back to us all when you finally understand.


So if I go to these links, everyone of them will proudly post their definition of "Climate" right on the page to which you linked, yes?

Hint: not a chance.

And please, do get back to us all when you finally understand.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
21-10-2015 03:35
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
[quote]trafn wrote: Why just have a look at his CV[/b][/u]:

Allow me to list some crucial things missing from this CV:

1) Any definition of "climate" that was incorporated into any science.

2) Any science whatsoever

3) Any indication that you speak for him.

After all, if you think you get to speak for him, then I too can speak for him, and he says that all you Marxist dunderheads need to shut up about your religion. I mean, just look at that CV!


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
21-10-2015 06:28
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdasMarxistischeMensch - you of all people should honor and respect Herr Anderson's theo-politico-pseudo-scientific-warmazombie-Marxist attempts to obfiscate the entire issue of M2C2 with his theo-politico-pseudo-scientific-warmazombie-Marxist ramblings about climate-this and climate-that making theo-politico-pseudo-scientific-warmazombie-Marxist conclusions about climate-this and climate-that resulting in theo-politico-pseudo-scientific-warmazombie-Marxist actions about climate-this and climate-that so that there will be theo-politico-pseudo-scientific-warmazombie-Marxist.... wait... uh.... what the hell was I just talking about?

Dear god.... I'm starting to sound like Herr IBdasMarxistischeMensch!

* - I've temporarily adjusted your moniker to honor it being National Socialist Science Month in Germany.


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!

Edited on 21-10-2015 06:29
21-10-2015 10:08
climate scientist
★★☆☆☆
(257)
@ trafn. I am completely ashamed - David Anderson is clearly not qualified to say anything about anything!

@ IBdaMann. You do not seem to understand what a CV is...
21-10-2015 13:08
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
climate scientist wrote:
@ IBdaMann. You do not seem to understand what a CV is...

I know what a CV is. You apparently haven't been paying attention.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
21-10-2015 13:35
climate scientist
★★☆☆☆
(257)
Allow me to list some crucial things missing from this CV:

1) Any definition of "climate" that was incorporated into any science.

2) Any science whatsoever


Since when were scientific CVs supposed to contain definitions of simple scientific terms, or explain any science???
21-10-2015 14:56
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@climate scientist - perhaps you're going a little to far here.

With CV's, you're asking our little IBdasMarxistischeMensch to contemplate two capital letters at the same time. How cruel of you!


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
21-10-2015 21:18
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10270)
climate scientist wrote:
Fine. And thank you for the quotes (rather than links!). The key part of these definitions, though, is that the 'long period of time' isn't specified. The only number listed in these definitions is some 'average' of 30 years. Unfortunately, it does not specify a domain or any hard length of time.

For example, could a particular square inch on my front walk be considered 'climate' if I've been averaging measurements there for longer than 30 years? If so, what does that mean for the square inch next to it, where I've taken no measurements at all? This is what I mean by domain.


You have something against links??

Yes. They waste time. Especially since you don't even put the URL flag around them. But even if you do, they waste time. Links are often broken or don't work as expected in a particular browser or a particular version or configuration of a browser. It is better to display it here if practical. At the least, include the URL tag around your links.
climate scientist wrote:
Well, unless you happen to have a very large thermometer, all temperature readings are going to be made over a few 10s of square inches, rather than a larger domain.

The fact that global temperature measurements are not reliable is a myth.

See here: http://www.skepticalscience.com/surface-temperature-measurements-advanced.htm

I'm afraid that I have posted another link!

The fact that 'global temperature measurements are not reliable is a myth' is a myth. It is not possible to measure global temperature at all, much less reliably.
21-10-2015 21:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10270)
trafn wrote:
@Into the Night - you're insisting because there is an obvious grey-area between the concepts of weather and climate (i.e. - so what is the difference between long-term and short-term?), that neither is relevant within the body of science. It's as if you want there to be some sort of Unified Field-of-Climate Theory before you admit that it exists. All I can say is as you pursue this lofty ambition, try not to get too weighed down by gravity.

Of interest, would you also like to discuss the existence of day and night within the body of science as technically neither exists. If so, please remember that:

1. Even at 2:00 a.m. it is still possible to see sun light.

2. Even at 2:00 a.m. you are still facing a sun.

Your turn!

Day and night are not determined by the 24 hour clock. They are determined by the position of the sun in the sky. That in turn is determined by the Earth's spin and season.

'Night' is precisely defined in three separate ways, depending on your application of the term. All of them depend on a setting and rising sun. If the sun is below the flat horizon by X degrees (the three definitions), it is Night. Otherwise it is Day.

The reason for the different definitions is due to twilight length and it's effect on mariners, pilots, weather services, and astronomical measurements.

I am not looking for a unified field theory (which is actually precisely defined, even if we don't know what it is). I am looking for a definition of climate that carries some precision rather than using vague terms.
21-10-2015 23:34
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@Into the Night - you stated you are looking for a definition of climate that carries some precision rather than using vague terms.

I am perfectly happy with my definition. Just because you judge it inadequate means that it is only inadequate to you. If you want to be the guy out in left field singing his own song all by himself, that's fine with me, but it's not my job to come up with a definition that suits you. Personally, I am willing to accept the definition that hundreds of thousands of people far more educated on this subject have accepted. I'm sorry that's not good enough for you.

Since you hold yourself to a higher standard (which is noble), you should take it upon yourself to find the answer to your own question and then bring it back to us for our consideration. Who knows, maybe you will find a new and improved definition. If so, that would be great. But why you think it's our job to do that for you is beyond me.

As for day and night being defined by our orientation to the Sun, which Sun did you have in mind? From what I understand, there are billions of them to choose from in the Universe (i.e. - thus, everything is relative and in a grey area).


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
22-10-2015 03:10
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10270)
trafn wrote:
@Into the Night - you stated you are looking for a definition of climate that carries some precision rather than using vague terms.

I am perfectly happy with my definition. Just because you judge it inadequate means that it is only inadequate to you. If you want to be the guy out in left field singing his own song all by himself, that's fine with me, but it's not my job to come up with a definition that suits you. Personally, I am willing to accept the definition that hundreds of thousands of people far more educated on this subject have accepted. I'm sorry that's not good enough for you.

Since you hold yourself to a higher standard (which is noble), you should take it upon yourself to find the answer to your own question and then bring it back to us for our consideration. Who knows, maybe you will find a new and improved definition. If so, that would be great. But why you think it's our job to do that for you is beyond me.

As for day and night being defined by our orientation to the Sun, which Sun did you have in mind? From what I understand, there are billions of them to choose from in the Universe (i.e. - thus, everything is relative and in a grey area).


Sol, obviously. You might be happy to work with something this vague, but science in general is not. They generally like things quantified in some way.
22-10-2015 03:27
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
climate scientist wrote:
Allow me to list some crucial things missing from this CV:

1) Any definition of "climate" that was incorporated into any science.

2) Any science whatsoever


Since when were scientific CVs supposed to contain definitions of simple scientific terms, or explain any science???

Since when are CVs not supposed to list major accomplishments?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-10-2015 03:31
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@climate scientist, Ceist and Tototo only - a considerable amount of attention has been paid to fasifiable models (FM's) and their relevance to M2C2. I've always held that FM's are most useful when there are lots of knowns and only few unknowns, and given that climate change science is a young science, that it's too early to use FM's effectively. What are your thoughts?


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
22-10-2015 03:36
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
trafn wrote: a considerable amount of attention has been paid to fasifiable models (FM's) and their relevance to M2C2.

Correction: A considerable amount of explanation has been devoted to falsifiable models' inapplicability to unfalsifiable religions.

trafn wrote: I've always held that FM's are most useful when there are lots of knowns and only few unknowns,

I'm sure everyone would benefit from understanding why you've always held this.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-10-2015 10:15
Totototo
★☆☆☆☆
(117)
My understanding was that in order to have "X science" (in this case being climate change science), a falsifiable model was required. Would it be correct to call it a theory and not take it as a fact?(that's of course if there isn't a falsifiable model which I don't really know).

I didn't answer your other questions as I don't know much those subjects.
22-10-2015 16:52
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
Totototo wrote:
My understanding was that in order to have "X science" (in this case being climate change science), a falsifiable model was required.

Correct. A falsifiable model that predicts nature is required to have science.

A falsifiable model that predicts nature that is not (yet shown to be) false is science.

Totototo wrote: Would it be correct to call it a theory and not take it as a fact?

Absolutely correct.

The quick answer is that observations and measurements are considered to be data/facts and are accepted as "true."

Falsifiable models, and the set of their derived hypotheses, are "theories" and can never be proven "true"; they can only be proven "false."

There is no such thing as "supporting evidence" for science, but it is absolutely critical in religions, that's why the Global Warming religion is so utterly dependent upon "supporting evidence." That's why warmazombies are desperately presenting every E-Way-Poo-Taah change on the planet as some form of "evidence" that their religion is "real."


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-10-2015 18:25
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1295)
Totototo wrote:
My understanding was that in order to have "X science" (in this case being climate change science), a falsifiable model was required. Would it be correct to call it a theory and not take it as a fact?(that's of course if there isn't a falsifiable model which I don't really know).

I didn't answer your other questions as I don't know much those subjects.


There are several stages;

1, Idea or guess.

2, Nice idea that seens to have leggs.

3, Hypothesis. This requires a mechanism, at least some correlation to real world data and makes clear predictions that can be wrong. Eg. I predict that Friday will be sunny in the UK. If I had a decent mechanism for making that prediction. That's one that uses stuff we already know not just some lines on a graph.

4, Theory. This is when the hypothesis has stood up to all the attacks thrown at it. That all the best and all the rest have had a go at finding fault in it and not found any mistakes.

I would put GW somewhere between 2 and 3. The notion that it is settled science is simply a lie.
22-10-2015 19:05
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@climate scientist, Ceist and Tototo only:

- Totototo: falsifiable models are very useful because they are very definitive (i.e. - they draw indisputable conclusions). The problem is that if you have too many unknown variables in the FM equation, then you easily introduce the potential for unintentional errors which can then be magnified into disastrous mistakes as time moves forward (the Titanic complex). I'd say, as others have also recently said here, that climate change science has too many unknowns and is therefore not ready for an FM just yet. We need to study and learn more before making any indisputable conclusions.


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
22-10-2015 20:45
climate scientist
★★☆☆☆
(257)
@ all constructive contributors

Some interesting stuff here about falsifiability, facts and theories:

"There is a catch-22 to the 'falsifiable rule'; a large hubris-filled quagmire that has trapped so many in the past, and to which our current crop of cosmologists have fallen prey. Falsifiability is the acid test for the conceptual health of a scientific theory, but doesn't really apply to a scientific fact. The flat Earth concept is an (unfortunately too appropriate) example of this. The idea that the Earth is approximately spherical (or at least far more spherical than it is planar) is not a theory. It is a fact, and one of the ways to recognize the difference between the two terms is to try to imagine a test for which the 'mostly spherical Earth' concept would fail. We could say, for instance, that the Earth is really flat with a center at some special location (say New York), but that when we travel away from it, say from New York to New Zealand, we are actually beneath its 'real' surface, and for some unknown reason on this part of the globe its structure is transparent and very low density. Since this explanation is (on its best day) utterly ludicrous, along with any other 'explanations' for why the Earth is actually flat, we correctly deduce that the Earth is to a large extent spherical, and we are held to its surface by the same force that gives it this shape, the magical force of gravity.

I'm sometimes asked if I believe in the theory of evolution. To this I respond that evolution is a theory in the same way that our basic composition of atoms is a theory. You can't look right at it and see it happen (like seeing our beautiful mostly spherical Earth from space), but you can actually see evolution happen rapidly on a small scale with viruses and bacteria, just like an atomic force microscope will give you a glimpse of atoms. So in the same way as the term fact is often misused for nefarious purposes, so too is theory used as a label to denegrate perfectly respectable facts."

From:

http://ourundiscovereduniverse.com/blog/?p=15

I guess that in my view, climate change is a collection of facts and theories. Some of these theories are falsifiable, and some are probably not yet. But as for the facts (e.g. observed changes in temperature, sea level rise, ocean pH, sea ice), well... these are just facts.
22-10-2015 20:56
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10270)
Tim the plumber wrote:
Totototo wrote:
My understanding was that in order to have "X science" (in this case being climate change science), a falsifiable model was required. Would it be correct to call it a theory and not take it as a fact?(that's of course if there isn't a falsifiable model which I don't really know).

I didn't answer your other questions as I don't know much those subjects.


There are several stages;

1, Idea or guess.

2, Nice idea that seens to have leggs.

3, Hypothesis. This requires a mechanism, at least some correlation to real world data and makes clear predictions that can be wrong. Eg. I predict that Friday will be sunny in the UK. If I had a decent mechanism for making that prediction. That's one that uses stuff we already know not just some lines on a graph.

4, Theory. This is when the hypothesis has stood up to all the attacks thrown at it. That all the best and all the rest have had a go at finding fault in it and not found any mistakes.

I would put GW somewhere between 2 and 3. The notion that it is settled science is simply a lie.

Nice summary of the process. Of course, even at stage 4 things can still change when new evidence becomes available.
22-10-2015 21:20
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
Tim the plumber wrote:
Totototo wrote:
My understanding was that in order to have "X science" (in this case being climate change science), a falsifiable model was required. Would it be correct to call it a theory and not take it as a fact?(that's of course if there isn't a falsifiable model which I don't really know).

I didn't answer your other questions as I don't know much those subjects.


There are several stages;

1, Idea or guess.

2, Nice idea that seens to have leggs.

3, Hypothesis. This requires a mechanism, at least some correlation to real world data and makes clear predictions that can be wrong. Eg. I predict that Friday will be sunny in the UK. If I had a decent mechanism for making that prediction. That's one that uses stuff we already know not just some lines on a graph.

4, Theory. This is when the hypothesis has stood up to all the attacks thrown at it. That all the best and all the rest have had a go at finding fault in it and not found any mistakes.



"Hypothesis" comes after "Theory." An hypothesis is derived from a falsifiable model in the same manner that a proof is derived from a system of axioms and assumptions.

The steps are:

1. Human experiences. Life is lived. Things are learned.

2: An epiphany occurs that nature is a certain way (a "mechanism" as you put it).

3. A theory is formulated to express the epiphany.

4. A falsifiable model is developed and formally expressed, creating science.

5. Hypotheses are derived from the model, i.e. "If this model is true then assuming X, Y and Z, ...B should occur when C does D to E."

6. Experiments are crafted to test the hypotheses, any one of which could falsify the model.

Global Warming doesn't fall into this list; Global Warming is a faith that nature is somehow different from the way science says it is. This is why the Warmizomgregation arches its back and hisses whenever science enters the discussion. If you hear a warmizombie screaming "It burns! It burns!" then you know that someone has just spilled some hydrochloric science on the dogma.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-10-2015 22:03
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5238)
climate scientist wrote:
Falsifiability is the acid test for the conceptual health of a scientific theory, but doesn't really apply to a scientific fact.

Falsifiability has nothing to do with empirical observations. If you have a rock in your hand, you have a rock in your hand. If the rock is a reddish brown, the rock is reddish brown. There is no need to address falsifiability because observations/measurements are considered to be true.

There really is no such thing as a "scientific fact" per se. There are just facts.

climate scientist wrote: I'm sometimes asked if I believe in the theory of evolution.


What if the word were changed? What if you were asked "Do you believe in the theory of genetics?" How would you respond?

climate scientist wrote: I guess that in my view, climate change is a collection of facts and theories.

I think you've just described every religion that has ever existed.

climate scientist wrote: Some of these theories are falsifiable, and some are probably not yet.

But there is no falsifiable "Climate Change" model, right? There is just a hodgepodge of concepts that don't all tie into an overall science.

climate scientist wrote: But as for the facts (e.g. observed changes in temperature, sea level rise, ocean pH, sea ice), well... these are just facts.

Every religion has mythical elements of its dogma that it refers to as "facts." For example, Christians claim that it is a fact that Jesus was born during Herod's reign, was not yet born ten years later during the great census, walked on water, transformed water into wine and rose from the dead, all of which is completely unverifiable. Warmizombies similarly claim, as fact, to know that ocean levels are rising, that ocean pH is decreasing, that decreasing ocean pH is bad, and many others.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
23-10-2015 00:38
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@all constructive contributors:

- climate scientist: that's a great quote!

I think, in that respect, that when people are trying to generate climate science, they are often met with resistance because of the implications it has regarding the current way we live. Today, our lives are clearly founded on a petrochemical infrastructure which lacks sufficient flow-through, leading to to many byproducts being deposited in our atmosphere as GHG's. If these GHG's could somehow be captured and then processed into something useful like graphene, then the situation might be different, but this, of course, implies a massive social and economic transformation which would likely require national and well as international governmental coordination. Thus, individuals who through either family, occupation, or personal investments are strongly tied to the current petrochemical infrastructure will naturally fear such change.

Sadly, one way that they react to their fear is by denying the existence of M2C2 (man-made climate change), and will often resort to questioning the very elements which are the underpinnings of climate change science. Naturally, you'd imagine that'd be easy to deal with, as people like you and I are well versed in these foundational elements. In reality, it's not, and anyone who has tried to explain basic addition or subtraction to an elementary school student knows this.

As for you and I, we learned the basics about M2C2 a long time ago. Unfortunately, that can mean that we might have a difficult time explaining the basics to someone who either hasn't yet come to understand them, or someone who does understand them but is pretending that they don't.

A catch-22, indeed.

PS - I'm finding as we move in this new direction, that it's getting easier and easier to not be distracted by posts that are either off topic or non-constructive.


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!

Edited on 23-10-2015 00:52
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