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Energy and resource crisis in the future



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Energy and resource crisis in the future27-11-2019 22:29
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
How long do you think it takes when depletion of oil, coal and other natural resources will start to have a major impact to society? I myself am a bit of doomer about all those things because I do not see a long term solution for depletion problem.
27-11-2019 22:31
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7516)
Xadoman wrote: How long do you think it takes when depletion of oil, coal and other natural resources will start to have a major impact to society? I myself am a bit of doomer about all those things because I do not see a long term solution for depletion problem.

I don't see there being a depletion. Why do you presume there will be one?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
27-11-2019 22:37
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
I don't see there being a depletion. Why do you presume there will be one?


Eventually all the coal and shale oil will be burnt/used. What then?
27-11-2019 22:52
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7516)
Xadoman wrote:
I don't see there being a depletion. Why do you presume there will be one?


Eventually all the coal and shale oil will be burnt/used. What then?

What makes you believe the earth will somehow stop making more?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
27-11-2019 22:58
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
What makes you believe the earth will somehow stop making more?


Do you want to say that coal , oil shale etc are renewable at current rate of consumption?
27-11-2019 23:03
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3377)
Xadoman wrote:
What makes you believe the earth will somehow stop making more?


Do you want to say that coal , oil shale etc are renewable at current rate of consumption?


IBD has a totally unsupported belief that the Earth MAGIKALLY makes it's own fossil fuel, by rubbing rocks or something. It's totally coo coo and BS.

Of course the energy industry totally dismisses the idea.
27-11-2019 23:15
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
IBD has a totally unsupported belief that the Earth MAGIKALLY makes it's own fossil fuel, by rubbing rocks or something. It's totally coo coo and BS.

Of course the energy industry totally dismisses the idea.


If that is true then the future is beautiful. No need for nuclear or fusion power plants.
27-11-2019 23:17
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3377)
Xadoman wrote:
IBD has a totally unsupported belief that the Earth MAGIKALLY makes it's own fossil fuel, by rubbing rocks or something. It's totally coo coo and BS.

Of course the energy industry totally dismisses the idea.


If that is true then the future is beautiful. No need for nuclear or fusion power plants.


Even still:
"There are an estimated 1.1 trillion tonnes of proven coal reserves worldwide. This means that there is enough coal to last us around 150 years at current rates of production. In contrast, proven oil and gas reserves are equivalent to around 50 and 52 years at current production levels."
https://www.worldcoal.org/coal/where-coal-found

We can also grow fuel.
27-11-2019 23:40
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
150 years at current rates of production. In contrast, proven oil and gas reserves are equivalent to around 50 and 52 years at current production levels."


Does not sound very comforting for future generations.
27-11-2019 23:45
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7516)
Xadoman wrote:Do you want to say that coal , oil shale etc are renewable at current rate of consumption?

Actually, I'm not discussing coal, just hydrocarbons. The earth manufactures them from all the superabundant carbon in the crust and the mantle. All the earth needs is some heat and pressure and ... guess what the earth has in spades?

If we could get back to your reason for posting, i.e. your belief that we are somehow "running out" ... why do you believe this? I do not claim to know the rate at which the earth produces hydrocarbons; nobody does. No human has ever had sufficient information to even come close to being able to graph the earth's projected hydrocarbon supply over time.

Have you learned something that the rest of humanity doesn't know? If so, please share.


[p.s. - if you want a genuine laugh, ask tmiddles what it is that "we know" about the creation of hydrocarbons. You don't want to miss that. It's too funny]


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
27-11-2019 23:48
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3377)
IBdaMann wrote:
hydrocarbons. The earth manufactures them .


Told you

Truly exotic and odd theory with no evidence at all presented as fact.
27-11-2019 23:53
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7516)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
hydrocarbons. The earth manufactures them .

Truly exotic and odd theory with no evidence at all presented as fact.

Oh absolutely. What is the correct "mainstream" theory for hydrocarbon production ... or are you saying that hydrocarbons were never produced and don't really exist?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
27-11-2019 23:55
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
If we could get back to your reason for posting, i.e. your belief that we are somehow "running out" ... why do you believe this?


I have been to shale oil mines that are underground. Those old underground mines are collapsing here now. The walls and ceiling of the undergorund caves were supported with wooden posts and eventually those post will rot and the ceiling will collapse. Much of the shale oil is now burnt in our country so we can say that we have depleted our shale oil resources.
28-11-2019 00:08
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
Another thing that is constantly on my mind is a topsoil depletion. I have read that it takes about a thousand year to form and inch of it. At current rate of consumption( heavy farming) the soil is gone is 60 years according to soil specialist. It sounds concerning.
28-11-2019 00:10
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3377)
Xadoman wrote:
Another thing that is constantly on my mind is a topsoil depletion. I have read that it takes about a thousand year to form and inch of it. At current rate of consumption( heavy farming) the soil is gone is 60 years according to soil specialist. It sounds concerning.


One bit of good news is that human reproduction has slowed dramatically so the dire forecasts for an exploding populatuon arent an issue.
28-11-2019 00:16
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
One bit of good news is that human reproduction has slowed dramatically so the dire forecasts for an exploding populatuon arent an issue.


It only prolongs the process of depletion a little bit. Lets say 200 year instead of 150. In the big picture it does not matter much.
28-11-2019 00:29
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7516)
Xadoman wrote:
If we could get back to your reason for posting, i.e. your belief that we are somehow "running out" ... why do you believe this?

I have been to shale oil mines that are underground.

Visiting a depleted well does not mean that there is no more and that there will be no more. Are you telling me that your belief that the earth will become hydrocarbon-depleted stems from your visit to a depleted well? Is your logic poor or are you really gullible?

Xadoman wrote: Much of the shale oil is now burnt in our country so we can say that we have depleted our shale oil resources.

What about hydrocarbons? Is there plenty of petroleum and natural gas in say, Texas, maybe North Dakota, the Gulf of Mexico, California, ... other places?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-11-2019 00:41
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
Visiting a depleted well does not mean that there is no more and that there will be no more. Are you telling me that your belief that the earth will become hydrocarbon-depleted stems from your visit to a depleted well? Is your logic poor or are you really gullible?


I am a simple man and belive in common sense. According to logic the rabbit could never catch a turtle( zeno paradox) but common sense tells us that sure it can. Once the oil shale is burnt in our country we no more have it. Simple as that. We use it to generate electricity. The future is concerning.
Edited on 28-11-2019 00:42
28-11-2019 00:49
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3377)
Xadoman wrote:
The future is concerning.


We ran out of whale oil long ago.

Also 60% of energy generated is lost.

About 15% of gas energy actually moves a car.

We have plenty of efficiency to be gained in our existing system.
28-11-2019 00:55
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
We ran out of whale oil long ago.

Also 60% of energy generated is lost.

About 15% of gas energy actually moves a car.

We have plenty of efficiency to be gained in our existing system.


In the long run it does not save from depletion of natural resources. It prolongs it a little bit.
28-11-2019 01:12
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
Another nail in the coffin is the depletion of big undergroud water resources( aquifers) that are being depleted at the rate way out of contol. It does not take long when those are going to be empty. The consequences of such events are self explanatory.
28-11-2019 01:29
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)
p.s. - if you want a genuine laugh, ask tmiddles what it is that "we know" about the creation of hydrocarbons. You don't want to miss that. It's too funny


I would like to hear that. I have heard about the creation of fossil fuels over the course of millions of years but I have never digged more deeply into this subject.
Edited on 28-11-2019 01:29
28-11-2019 01:37
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3377)
Xadoman wrote:
p.s. - if you want a genuine laugh, ask tmiddles what it is that "we know" about the creation of hydrocarbons. You don't want to miss that. It's too funny


I would like to hear that. I have heard about the creation of fossil fuels over the course of millions of years but I have never digged more deeply into this subject.


Oil comes from organic material, mostly algae,which was quickly buried in mud at the bottom of oceans and lakes – So, it never had a chance to fossilize. Pressure, heat and time converted the organic material into kerogen, oil and natural gas

AND the sun's not burning out anytime soon so we can keep growing fuel if we can't find it in the ground conveniently enough.
28-11-2019 11:57
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(301)

Oil comes from organic material, mostly algae,which was quickly buried in mud at the bottom of oceans and lakes – So, it never had a chance to fossilize. Pressure, heat and time converted the organic material into kerogen, oil and natural gas

AND the sun's not burning out anytime soon so we can keep growing fuel if we can't find it in the ground conveniently enough.


I want to belive that this is true. The question is - is the oil renewable at current rate of consumption. If not then there is going to be a depletion and the concequences of such event that are self explanatory.
28-11-2019 13:08
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
Xadoman wrote:
How long do you think it takes when depletion of oil, coal and other natural resources will start to have a major impact to society? I myself am a bit of doomer about all those things because I do not see a long term solution for depletion problem.


What depletion problem?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
Xadoman wrote:
I don't see there being a depletion. Why do you presume there will be one?


Eventually all the coal and shale oil will be burnt/used. What then?


Oil is a renewable resource. So is natural gas.
We don't know about coal, but there is plenty of it.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:10
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
Xadoman wrote:
What makes you believe the earth will somehow stop making more?


Do you want to say that coal , oil shale etc are renewable at current rate of consumption?


Oil and natural gas are both renewable forms of energy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:12
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
tmiddles wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
What makes you believe the earth will somehow stop making more?


Do you want to say that coal , oil shale etc are renewable at current rate of consumption?


IBD has a totally unsupported belief that the Earth MAGIKALLY makes it's own fossil fuel,

We don't burn fossils for fuel. Fossils don't burn.
tmiddles wrote:
by rubbing rocks or something.

Rubbing rocks just make smaller rocks.
tmiddles wrote:
It's totally coo coo and BS.

Argument of the stone fallacy.
tmiddles wrote:
Of course the energy industry totally dismisses the idea.

No, it doesn't.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
tmiddles wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
IBD has a totally unsupported belief that the Earth MAGIKALLY makes it's own fossil fuel, by rubbing rocks or something. It's totally coo coo and BS.

Of course the energy industry totally dismisses the idea.


If that is true then the future is beautiful. No need for nuclear or fusion power plants.


Even still:
"There are an estimated 1.1 trillion tonnes of proven coal reserves worldwide. This means that there is enough coal to last us around 150 years at current rates of production. In contrast, proven oil and gas reserves are equivalent to around 50 and 52 years at current production levels."
https://www.worldcoal.org/coal/where-coal-found

We can also grow fuel.

Both oil and natural gas are renewable fuels. There is also plenty of both. It's CHEAP right now. Coal is cheap too. There is plenty of it.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
Xadoman wrote:
150 years at current rates of production. In contrast, proven oil and gas reserves are equivalent to around 50 and 52 years at current production levels."


Does not sound very comforting for future generations.


Not to worry. He is just making shit up.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:16
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
hydrocarbons. The earth manufactures them .


Told you

Truly exotic and odd theory with no evidence at all presented as fact.


You have already been told the chemistry of it. You just want to deny chemistry.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:18
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
Xadoman wrote:
If we could get back to your reason for posting, i.e. your belief that we are somehow "running out" ... why do you believe this?


I have been to shale oil mines that are underground. Those old underground mines are collapsing here now. The walls and ceiling of the undergorund caves were supported with wooden posts and eventually those post will rot and the ceiling will collapse. Much of the shale oil is now burnt in our country so we can say that we have depleted our shale oil resources.


I don't believe you. Shale oil is not mined.

We have more oil than ever. Oil is also a renewable resource.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
Xadoman wrote:
Another thing that is constantly on my mind is a topsoil depletion. I have read that it takes about a thousand year to form and inch of it.
Whoever told you that is lying. Soil can be form easily within a single year.
Xadoman wrote:
At current rate of consumption( heavy farming) the soil is gone is 60 years according to soil specialist.
Who is this 'specialist'?
Xadoman wrote:
It sounds concerning.

Don't panic.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
tmiddles wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Another thing that is constantly on my mind is a topsoil depletion. I have read that it takes about a thousand year to form and inch of it. At current rate of consumption( heavy farming) the soil is gone is 60 years according to soil specialist. It sounds concerning.


One bit of good news is that human reproduction has slowed dramatically so the
dire forecasts for an exploding populatuon arent an issue.


Population was never an issue.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
Xadoman wrote:
One bit of good news is that human reproduction has slowed dramatically so the dire forecasts for an exploding populatuon arent an issue.


It only prolongs the process of depletion a little bit. Lets say 200 year instead of 150. In the big picture it does not matter much.


What depletion?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:27
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
Xadoman wrote:
Visiting a depleted well does not mean that there is no more and that there will be no more. Are you telling me that your belief that the earth will become hydrocarbon-depleted stems from your visit to a depleted well? Is your logic poor or are you really gullible?


I am a simple man and belive in common sense.
No, you believe in the fearmongering others have taught you.
Xadoman wrote:
According to logic the rabbit could never catch a turtle( zeno paradox)
No such logic. Zenos paradoxes are not logic. They are philosophical arguments.
Xadoman wrote:
but common sense tells us that sure it can.
I've never know a rabbit to try to catch a turtle.
Xadoman wrote:
Once the oil shale is burnt in our country we no more have it.

Oil is a renewable resource. The oil markets disagree with you.
Xadoman wrote:
Simple as that.

Circular argument fallacy (fundamentalism).
Xadoman wrote:
We use it to generate electricity.
Because it's cheap.
Xadoman wrote:
The future is concerning.

Don't panic.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:30
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
tmiddles wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
The future is concerning.


We ran out of whale oil long ago.

Nope. Still plenty of whales in the ocean. You know what saved them? Big oil.
tmiddles wrote:
Also 60% of energy generated is lost.

Argument from randU fallacy. You are making up numbers and using them as 'data' again.
tmiddles wrote:
About 15% of gas energy actually moves a car.
Argument from randU fallacy.
tmiddles wrote:
We have plenty of efficiency to be gained in our existing system.

So you deny the 2nd law of thermodynamics again, eh?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:32
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
Xadoman wrote:
Another nail in the coffin is the depletion of big undergroud water resources( aquifers) that are being depleted at the rate way out of contol. It does not take long when those are going to be empty.

So you figure there will never be rain or snow to fill up aquifers again, eh? What makes you believe this?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:34
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
Xadoman wrote:
p.s. - if you want a genuine laugh, ask tmiddles what it is that "we know" about the creation of hydrocarbons. You don't want to miss that. It's too funny


I would like to hear that. I have heard about the creation of fossil fuels over the course of millions of years but I have never digged more deeply into this subject.


Doesn't take millions of years. We can synthesize oil and natural gas ourselves in literally hours. So can the Earth itself.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 13:39
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13502)
tmiddles wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
p.s. - if you want a genuine laugh, ask tmiddles what it is that "we know" about the creation of hydrocarbons. You don't want to miss that. It's too funny


I would like to hear that. I have heard about the creation of fossil fuels over the course of millions of years but I have never digged more deeply into this subject.


Oil comes from organic material, mostly algae,

Nope. No algae required.
tmiddles wrote:
which was quickly buried in mud at the bottom of oceans and lakes –

Nope. Oil is found well below any fossil layers. Fossils don't burn.
tmiddles wrote:
So, it never had a chance to fossilize.

Oil is found well below any fossil layers.
tmiddles wrote:
Pressure, heat and time converted the organic material into kerogen, oil and natural gas

Nope. Earth synthesizes oil continuously. No algae or other living substance required.
tmiddles wrote:
AND the sun's not burning out anytime soon so we can keep growing fuel if we can't find it in the ground conveniently enough.

It's quite convenient enough to drill for oil. Oil also has much more energy available,pound for pound than anything we grow.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
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