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Energy and resource crisis in the future



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28-11-2019 13:42
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
Xadoman wrote:

Oil comes from organic material, mostly algae,which was quickly buried in mud at the bottom of oceans and lakes – So, it never had a chance to fossilize. Pressure, heat and time converted the organic material into kerogen, oil and natural gas

AND the sun's not burning out anytime soon so we can keep growing fuel if we can't find it in the ground conveniently enough.


I want to belive that this is true. The question is - is the oil renewable at current rate of consumption. If not then there is going to be a depletion and the concequences of such event that are self explanatory.


He is making it up. Algae is not required to make oil. Neither is any other living matter or once living matter.

Oil is damn cheap right now. That means there is plenty of it to satisfy the market demands. That means that so far, it is not being depleted at all.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 14:06
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
I don't believe you. Shale oil is not mined.

We have more oil than ever. Oil is also a renewable resource.

The Parrot Killer


I meant oil shale, a rock. I have been to those underground mines and I have seen with my own eyes how this rock is removed from the underground. Eventually the ground collapses.
28-11-2019 14:13
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
Whoever told you that is lying. Soil can be form easily within a single year.


No it can not. Topsoil forms very slowly and due to heavy farming its erosion/depletion is faster than its formation. Simple as that. Why do you think farmers fertilize their soil?

So you figure there will never be rain or snow to fill up aquifers again, eh? What makes you believe this?


Ever heard about Jakarta. They pumped their ground water at the rate so much that the whole city has sunk 4 meter during last 40 years.
28-11-2019 14:20
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
Oil is damn cheap right now. That means there is plenty of it to satisfy the market demands. That means that so far, it is not being depleted at all.


Depletion could be a sudden event. For example when you drink a bottle of beer then the last gulp might be the biggest but after that it is all over.
28-11-2019 14:25
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
No such logic. Zenos paradoxes are not logic. They are philosophical arguments.


According to logic it is not possible for a rabbit to catch a turtle. I do not care if it is philosophical argument or not. That is why I belive in common sense. I have seen with my own eyes how a cat has catched a mouse. Simple as that.
28-11-2019 14:31
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
Nope. Earth synthesizes oil continuously. No algae or other living substance required.


I want to belive it. From what and how the earth synthesize oil? Is there a long term depletion problem or could this process last till the sun dies?
28-11-2019 15:39
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
Xadoman wrote:
Nope. Earth synthesizes oil continuously. No algae or other living substance required.


I want to belive it. From what and how the earth synthesize oil? Is there a long term depletion problem or could this process last till the sun dies?


Note we are talking about events within Earth, and we're here now. If oil was being produced as quickly as we consumed it wouldnt we be able to discover that process? Reproduce it in a lab

Xadoman take this for what it's worth: I believe you find people like ITN/IBD within ever great debate. Their goal is to end discussion, to frustrate those trying to seek out the truth, to essentially keep the truth from being discovered. Here they are simply debate killers.

Pic any topic and their response is you can't talk about it. That the very question is somehow disqualified fron being considered at all.
28-11-2019 18:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
Xadoman wrote:
I don't believe you. Shale oil is not mined.

We have more oil than ever. Oil is also a renewable resource.

The Parrot Killer


I meant oil shale, a rock. I have been to those underground mines and I have seen with my own eyes how this rock is removed from the underground. Eventually the ground collapses.


Oil from shale isn't mined. I don't believe you.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 18:22
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
Xadoman wrote:
Whoever told you that is lying. Soil can be form easily within a single year.


No it can not.

Yes it can.
Xadoman wrote:
Topsoil forms very slowly
Nope. Takes as little as a year.
Xadoman wrote:
and due to heavy farming its erosion/depletion is faster than its formation.
Farming does not erode or deplete the topsoil unless poor farming practices are used.
Xadoman wrote:
Simple as that. Why do you think farmers fertilize their soil?

To make the topsoil even better.
Xadoman wrote:
So you figure there will never be rain or snow to fill up aquifers again, eh? What makes you believe this?

Ever heard about Jakarta. They pumped their ground water at the rate so much that the whole city has sunk 4 meter during last 40 years.

So? Most cities don't have as bad a water supply system as they do.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 18:25
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
Xadoman wrote:
Oil is damn cheap right now. That means there is plenty of it to satisfy the market demands. That means that so far, it is not being depleted at all.


Depletion could be a sudden event. For example when you drink a bottle of beer then the last gulp might be the biggest but after that it is all over.


Why would it? Do you know how many oil wells there are in the world??
Did you know there is more oil on the market than ever before?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 18:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
Xadoman wrote:
No such logic. Zenos paradoxes are not logic. They are philosophical arguments.


According to logic it is not possible for a rabbit to catch a turtle.

Logic doesn't talk about rabbits and turtles. Logic is a closed functional system, like mathematics.
Xadoman wrote:
I do not care if it is philosophical argument or not.

Obviously. You would rather stubbornly make erroneous statements.
Xadoman wrote:
That is why I belive in common sense.

Define 'common sense'.
Xadoman wrote:
I have seen with my own eyes how a cat has catched a mouse. Simple as that.

The word is 'caught', not 'catched'.
So you saw a cat catch a mouse. So what?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 18:30
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
Xadoman wrote:
No such logic. Zenos paradoxes are not logic. They are philosophical arguments.


According to logic it is not possible for a rabbit to catch a turtle.

Logic doesn't talk about rabbits and turtles. Logic is a closed functional system, like mathematics.
Xadoman wrote:
I do not care if it is philosophical argument or not.

Obviously. You would rather stubbornly make erroneous statements.
Xadoman wrote:
That is why I belive in common sense.

Define 'common sense'.
Xadoman wrote:
I have seen with my own eyes how a cat has catched a mouse. Simple as that.

The word is 'caught', not 'catched'.
So you saw a cat catch a mouse. So what?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 21:45
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
Oil from shale isn't mined. I don't believe you.


I already told you I meant a rock called "oil shale" or what ever it is called in English. It has been the only abundant energy resource in our country and soon it is going to be depleted. After that our country has to import electricity from other countries.

Nope. Takes as little as a year.


At current rate it is disappearing 100 times faster than it forms. Due to heavy farming etc.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-60-years-of-farming-left-if-soil-degradation-continues/

Logic doesn't talk about rabbits and turtles. Logic is a closed functional system, like mathematics.


A simple zeno paradox confirms to me that claims based on logic could lead to very wrong conslusions. That is why I belive in common sense. Common sense tells me that a cat could catch a mouse without problems.
28-11-2019 21:57
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
Xadoman take this for what it's worth: I believe you find people like ITN/IBD within ever great debate. Their goal is to end discussion, to frustrate those trying to seek out the truth, to essentially keep the truth from being discovered. Here they are simply debate killers.


I just got into this forum. I almost jumped to the climate hysteria bandwagon not long time ago but thanks to this forum I do not belive this hysteria anymore. I was always a little bit sceptical and did not dig more deeply into this matter but now I am almost convinced that the whole thing is overexaggerated. On the other hand some claims of ITN/IBD are too beautiful to be true. Like endless supply of oil , gas etc. I myself am a depletion doomer and I think that there will be big problems in the nearest future when we run out of natural resources.
Edited on 28-11-2019 22:03
28-11-2019 22:54
James___
★★★★★
(3429)
Xadoman wrote:
Xadoman take this for what it's worth: I believe you find people like ITN/IBD within ever great debate. Their goal is to end discussion, to frustrate those trying to seek out the truth, to essentially keep the truth from being discovered. Here they are simply debate killers.


I just got into this forum. I almost jumped to the climate hysteria bandwagon not long time ago but thanks to this forum I do not belive this hysteria anymore. I was always a little bit sceptical and did not dig more deeply into this matter but now I am almost convinced that the whole thing is overexaggerated. On the other hand some claims of ITN/IBD are too beautiful to be true. Like endless supply of oil , gas etc. I myself am a depletion doomer and I think that there will be big problems in the nearest future when we run out of natural resources.



What could be the 2 biggest issues in the future is overpopulation and a lack of fresh water. The South China Sea is supposed to have more oil than the Middle East.
That leaves us with what economical solution is there for fresh water? This would be for aspects of society from agricultural to manufacturing to a person's home. We've seen what happened when the price of crude went up, what about when the price of water goes up?
28-11-2019 23:30
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
Xadoman wrote:
Oil from shale isn't mined. I don't believe you.


I already told you I meant a rock called "oil shale" or what ever it is called in English.

Shale doesn't burn. Oil is not mined. I don't believe you.
Xadoman wrote:
It has been the only abundant energy resource in our country and soon it is going to be depleted.

Meh. A mythical substance that doesn't exist is going to be depleted???
Xadoman wrote:
After that our country has to import electricity from other countries.

Maybe you should build power plants.
Xadoman wrote:
Nope. Takes as little as a year.

At current rate it is disappearing 100 times faster than it forms.

Argument from randU fallacy. You are just making up numbers now.
Xadoman wrote:
Due to heavy farming etc.

Farming does not necessarily deplete the soil.
Xadoman wrote:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/only-60-years-of-farming-left-if-soil-degradation-continues/

Scientific American is not science and is summarily discarded as a reference.

Try making your own arguments instead of cut and pasting someone else's.
Xadoman wrote:
Logic doesn't talk about rabbits and turtles. Logic is a closed functional system, like mathematics.


A simple zeno paradox confirms to me that claims based on logic could lead to very wrong conslusions.

The zeno paradoxes are arguments of philosophy, not logic. They have nothing to do with logic at all.
Xadoman wrote:
That is why I belive in common sense.

Define 'common sense'.
Xadoman wrote:
Common sense tells me that a cat could catch a mouse without problems.

Define 'common sense'.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 23:37
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
Xadoman wrote:
Xadoman take this for what it's worth: I believe you find people like ITN/IBD within ever great debate. Their goal is to end discussion, to frustrate those trying to seek out the truth, to essentially keep the truth from being discovered. Here they are simply debate killers.


I just got into this forum. I almost jumped to the climate hysteria bandwagon not long time ago but thanks to this forum I do not belive this hysteria anymore. I was always a little bit sceptical and did not dig more deeply into this matter but now I am almost convinced that the whole thing is overexaggerated. On the other hand some claims of ITN/IBD are too beautiful to be true. Like endless supply of oil , gas etc. I myself am a depletion doomer and I think that there will be big problems in the nearest future when we run out of natural resources.


Look up the Fischer-Tropsch process. It can be done with CO or CO2.
Just combine CO2, hydrogen, heat, and pressure in the presence of an iron catalyst, you will get light, sweet, crude oil and methane.

These conditions exist naturally underground.

The Earth is a giant Fischer-Tropsch reactor continuously making oil.

We have more oil than ever right now. What depletion?

Natural resources occur because of natural processes. Rain and snow provide fresh water. The makes oil and methane constantly. Methane is also found in swamps, refuse piles, oil wells, and elsewhere.

Nothing has stopped the rain and snow. Nothing has stopped the Earth from producing oil and methane. Nothing has stopped refuse piles from producing methane.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 23:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
James___ wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Xadoman take this for what it's worth: I believe you find people like ITN/IBD within ever great debate. Their goal is to end discussion, to frustrate those trying to seek out the truth, to essentially keep the truth from being discovered. Here they are simply debate killers.


I just got into this forum. I almost jumped to the climate hysteria bandwagon not long time ago but thanks to this forum I do not belive this hysteria anymore. I was always a little bit sceptical and did not dig more deeply into this matter but now I am almost convinced that the whole thing is overexaggerated. On the other hand some claims of ITN/IBD are too beautiful to be true. Like endless supply of oil , gas etc. I myself am a depletion doomer and I think that there will be big problems in the nearest future when we run out of natural resources.



What could be the 2 biggest issues in the future is overpopulation
You need get out in the country more.
James___ wrote:
and a lack of fresh water.
There is no lack of fresh water. It occurs in the same places at pretty much the same rate. It hasn't stopped raining.
James___ wrote:
The South China Sea is supposed to have more oil than the Middle East.

Oil is anywhere you care to drill. It's closest to the surface near tectonic plate edges, especially where spreading action is taking place.
James___ wrote:
That leaves us with what economical solution is there for fresh water?
Same as before.
James___ wrote:
This would be for aspects of society from agricultural to manufacturing to a person's home. We've seen what happened when the price of crude went up,
The price of crude is lower than it has ever been after adjusting fo the falling value of the dollar.
James___ wrote:
what about when the price of water goes up?

Water has no cost. What you are paying for on a 'water' bill is the plumbing system, not the water itself.

You could always go get your own water.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
28-11-2019 23:56
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
Shale doesn't burn. Oil is not mined. I don't believe you.


Of course it burns. I have been to power stations that use oil shale for electricity production.


Meh. A mythical substance that doesn't exist is going to be depleted???


Not sure if serious.

The zeno paradoxes are arguments of philosophy, not logic. They have nothing to do with logic at all.


Zenos logic was flawless. I can not see anything wrong with his logic. The problem is that his flawless logic leads to wrong conclusions. That is why I am very skeptical of anyone who makes bold claims based on only logic. I need more to be convinced.
29-11-2019 00:08
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
ook up the Fischer-Tropsch process. It can be done with CO or CO2.
Just combine CO2, hydrogen, heat, and pressure in the presence of an iron catalyst, you will get light, sweet, crude oil and methane.

These conditions exist naturally underground.

The Earth is a giant Fischer-Tropsch reactor continuously making oil.

We have more oil than ever right now. What depletion?

Natural resources occur because of natural processes. Rain and snow provide fresh water. The makes oil and methane constantly. Methane is also found in swamps, refuse piles, oil wells, and elsewhere.

Nothing has stopped the rain and snow. Nothing has stopped the Earth from producing oil and methane. Nothing has stopped refuse piles from producing methane.


Too good to be true. I do not say it is wrong but I do belive at current rate of consumption the oil is not renewable resource. It is going to be depleted.
29-11-2019 06:23
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
Xadoman wrote:I am a simple man and belive in common sense.

We'll come back to this. I'm going to hold you to this.

Xadoman wrote:According to logic the rabbit could never catch a turtle( zeno paradox)

That "paradox" is not logic but rather is a logical fallacy.

Xadoman wrote: but common sense tells us that sure it can.

Nope. Common sense tells us that it is not really a paradox. It is an error. Actually, it's better to call it a puzzle, one of "find the logical error in this argument," i.e. Zeno's Puzzle.

Xadoman wrote: Once the oil shale is burnt in our country we no more have it. Simple as that.

Your statement is true. Your statement, of course, omits the rate of new hydrocarbons produced by the earth that are coming into "our country." You can't possibly include it because you don't know it. Nobody does. The logical error on your part is your presumption that it is zero. You don't know what it is but you make up a number that supports a doom and gloom outlook.

Xadoman wrote: The future is concerning.

I'm not feeling your doom and gloom. I get the feeling that you are expecting me to panic based on your complete ignorance of how the earth produces hydrocarbons.

Good luck with that.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-11-2019 18:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
Xadoman wrote:
Shale doesn't burn. Oil is not mined. I don't believe you.


Of course it burns.
Xadoman wrote:
I have been to power stations that use oil shale for electricity production.
[quote]Xadoman wrote:
[quote]Into the Night wrote:
The zeno paradoxes are arguments of philosophy, not logic. They have nothing to do with logic at all.

Zenos logic was flawless.

WRONG. The Zeno paradox of the tortoise and Achillis (or the hare) is a logical fallacy known as a contextomy fallacy. It shifts the context as required to allow the tortoise to win by reducing the speed of Achillis (or the hare) in each context.
Xadoman wrote:
I can not see anything wrong with his logic.

He is not using logic. He is using philosophy to demonstrate a logical fallacy. A fallacy is an error in logic just as surely as an arithmetic error is an error in mathematics.
Xadoman wrote:
The problem is that his flawless logic

It is a fallacy, not logic.
Xadoman wrote:
leads to wrong conclusions.

Because it is a fallacy, not logic.
Xadoman wrote:
That is why I am very skeptical of anyone who makes bold claims based on only logic.

Non-sequitur fallacy. Redefinition fallacies (fallacy<->logic, philosophy<->logic, philosophy<->fallacy).
Xadoman wrote:
I need more to be convinced.

Since you conflating a contextomy fllacy, logic, and philosophy to produce a non-sequitur argument fallacy, I think you need to study philosophy and logic instead of denying them.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
29-11-2019 19:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13766)
Xadoman wrote:
ook up the Fischer-Tropsch process. It can be done with CO or CO2.
Just combine CO2, hydrogen, heat, and pressure in the presence of an iron catalyst, you will get light, sweet, crude oil and methane.

These conditions exist naturally underground.

The Earth is a giant Fischer-Tropsch reactor continuously making oil.

We have more oil than ever right now. What depletion?

Natural resources occur because of natural processes. Rain and snow provide fresh water. The makes oil and methane constantly. Methane is also found in swamps, refuse piles, oil wells, and elsewhere.

Nothing has stopped the rain and snow. Nothing has stopped the Earth from producing oil and methane. Nothing has stopped refuse piles from producing methane.


Too good to be true.

Argument of the stone fallacy.
Xadoman wrote:
I do not say it is wrong

You just did. Paradox.. Which is it, dude?
Xadoman wrote:
but I do belive at current rate of consumption the oil is not renewable resource. It is going to be depleted.

Argument from randU fallacy. You are just making up numbers to attempt to justify your argument of the stone fallacy.

Your problem is that you have allowed religion (belief in the Church of Green) to substitute for logic and mathematics. You are just preaching scripture from this religion.

This religion is the reason you deny logic and philosophy, and now you have denied mathematics as well as chemistry.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
29-11-2019 21:31
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)

WRONG. The Zeno paradox of the tortoise and Achillis (or the hare) is a logical fallacy known as a contextomy fallacy. It shifts the context as required to allow the tortoise to win by reducing the speed of Achillis (or the hare) in each context


No. Zenos logic is flawless. It it not possible for Achillis to catch a tortoise. The point I want to make is that I am very skeptical of whoever that makes bold claims based only some logic mind game. I need more to belive.

Because it is a fallacy, not logic.


His logic is sound. Even 2500 years later nobody can not refute his logic.

This religion is the reason you deny logic and philosophy, and now you have denied mathematics as well as chemistry.


I do not deny zenos paradox. It is flawless and sound logic. I deny the outcome of it. I belive my common sense that tells me that Achilles could catch a tortoise.
30-11-2019 05:10
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
Xadoman wrote:No. Zenos logic is flawless. It it not possible for Achillis to catch a tortoise. The point I want to make is that I am very skeptical of whoever that makes bold claims based only some logic mind game. I need more to belive.

This is called "repeating yourself. You are wrong. You have been shown how you are wrong. You are simply regurgitating your religious dogma.

Also, you are clearly not one to be making judgements about logic. You are incompetent in this area. You should be taking notes on what you are being told. Whoever taught you what you think you know was doing you a huge disservice, or was playing a prank.

Xadoman wrote: His logic is sound. Even 2500 years later nobody can not refute his logic.

Incorrect. Not only are his arguments not sound, they aren't even valid. You don't understand what I just wrote, do you? You don't understand the requirements for a sound argument nor do you understand the requirements for a valid argument. What makes you feel qualified to do anything other than listen and take notes?

Xadoman wrote: I do not deny zenos paradox.

It's a puzzle. It doesn't become a "paradox" just because you don't know the answer.

I'll help you out: It's not a valid argument. That should be enough of a clue for you to look up the correct answer to this particular puzzle.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-11-2019 05:14
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
Into the Night wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Whoever told you that is lying. Soil can be form easily within a single year.
No it can not.
Yes it can.
THE WAY THAT IT CAN IS BY ___________ HERE IS A REFERENCE ___________ . Would be an honest answer. But you don't get any of those from ITN/IBD.

https://www.soils4teachers.org/lessons-and-activities/teachers-guide/soil-formation "It can take over 500 years to form an inch of topsoil on the surface!"

Xadoman wrote:
I do not deny zenos paradox. It is flawless and sound logic.
Anyone that doubts logic can be sound and dead wrong, as you've pointed out very well, is simply uneducated.

My favorite quote on logic "Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence."

There is a lot of commonality with those who claim bees cannot fly due to the laws of aerodynamics and ITN/IBD denying that an atmosphere makes a planets ground level warmer.

It's there, happening right in front of you, but you have a logic argument to deny reality.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
Edited on 30-11-2019 05:14
30-11-2019 05:29
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tmiddles wrote:Anyone that doubts logic can be sound and dead wrong, as you've pointed out very well, is simply uneducated.

Incorrect. You cannot be sound and be wrong. You can be valid and be wrong but not sound and wrong. I hope you were mistaken about that making you uneducated.

tmiddles wrote:My favorite quote on logic "Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence."

You just described every IPCC report.

There is a lot of commonality with those who claim bees cannot fly due to the laws of aerodynamics and tmiddles claiming that the moon's surface cannot get hotter than the earth's surface because the moon has no Greenhouse Effect.

Too funny!

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-11-2019 05:49
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:Anyone that doubts logic can be sound and dead wrong, as you've pointed out very well, is simply uneducated.

Incorrect. You cannot be sound and be wrong.


Yes you can if the tool is imperfect. Logic is a deeply flawed and imperfect tool as is rational thought on the whole.

You can do "Something" perfectly but have the result be flawed if that "Something" you're doing isn't entirely reliable.

If you don't believe logic can obey all it's own rules and produce an answer that is dead wrong you simply need to educate yourself.

Good luck with that!
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/publications/observer/obsonline/what-is-logical-is-not-always-true.html


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
30-11-2019 06:00
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tmiddles wrote: Yes you can if the tool is imperfect. Logic is a deeply flawed and imperfect tool as is rational thought on the whole.

I'm sure you have some examples handy of the many flaws in our system of logic. Why don't you give us a few?

tmiddles wrote:You can do "Something" perfectly but have the result be flawed if that "Something" you're doing isn't entirely reliable.

Most of the words forming this sentence don't apply to "Logic." There is no "reliability" characteristic of "Logic" and it is not something that you "do."

tmiddles wrote: If you don't believe logic can obey all it's own rules and produce an answer that is dead wrong you simply need to educate yourself.

I see that you are still not reading posts yet responding to them anyway. If an argument follows the rules of logic but uses false assumptions, the conclusion will be false. Showing that an argument is false is called a "proof."

Anyway, I take it you were correct about you being uneducated.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-11-2019 06:04
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:
I'm sure you have some examples handy...


Not that is settled and accepted. On you.

Good luck.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
30-11-2019 06:10
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tmiddles wrote: Not that is settled and accepted. On you.


That's pretty cool! What language is that?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-11-2019 06:12
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
tmiddles wrote:
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/publications/observer/obsonline/what-is-logical-is-not-always-true.html


That's HTML IBD.


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them[/quote]
Edited on 30-11-2019 06:12
30-11-2019 06:21
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
tmiddles wrote:
[quote]tmiddles wrote:
https://www.psychologicalscience.org/publications/observer/obsonline/what-is-logical-is-not-always-true.html


I appreciate you posting an article that essentially repeats what I said although it wasn't entirely necessary since I had already explained it ... but good on you.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-11-2019 06:29
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3488)
IBdaMann wrote:
I appreciate you ...
NP
30-11-2019 11:16
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
tmiddles, I saw your thread about body in room and I must say I am truly puzzled now how the body does not freeze in the room. I do not belive in the climate hysteria anymore though.
30-11-2019 11:47
spot
★★★★☆
(1323)
Xadoman wrote:
tmiddles, I saw your thread about body in room and I must say I am truly puzzled now how the body does not freeze in the room. I do not belive in the climate hysteria anymore though.


So your puzzled at why you don't freeze to death in a room but you know enough to dismiss all the science telling you that climate change is real


Ok


IBdaMann wrote:
"Air" is not a body in and of itself. Ergo it is not a blackbody.


Planck's law describes the spectral density of electromagnetic radiation emitted by a black body in thermal equilibrium at a given temperature T.
30-11-2019 17:17
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
spot wrote: ... but you know enough to dismiss all the science telling you that climate change is real
Ok

There's no science supporting "Climate Change." You know that well.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-11-2019 17:21
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
So your puzzled at why you don't freeze to death in a room but you know enough to dismiss all the science telling you that climate change is real


Ok


tmiddles made calculations and according to them we should eat 14 large pizzas a day just to maintain our body tempreture. Something does not add up and I cannot understand yet what is it.
30-11-2019 17:36
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7570)
Xadoman wrote:tmiddles made calculations and according to them we should eat 14 large pizzas a day just to maintain our body tempreture. Something does not add up and I cannot understand yet what is it.

You probably don't want to get caught up in that ... or if you do you can ask tmiddles for a repeatable example of thermal energy flowing from a colder body to a warmer body (but with a greater amount of thermal energy flowing from the warmer to the colder). This is simply so we can observe his assertion that in nature some thermal energy flows from the colder to warmer. It's just that no one has ever observed this and he insists that it happens, which is perfectly fine ... I just think we should see an example of it first. Don't you? We don't want to be believing in things that don't really exist, do we?

Just a repeatable example in which we can isolate thermal energy flowing from colder to warmer and we can move forward.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
30-11-2019 19:29
Xadoman
★★☆☆☆
(311)
It's just that no one has ever observed this and he insists that it happens, which is perfectly fine ... I just think we should see an example of it first. Don't you? We don't want to be believing in things that don't really exist, do we?


Yes, it is hard to believe that colder object could heat warmer object. But I can not still understand what is wrong in his calculations. The only thing I could think up is that there has to be another object that heats the body and it has to be warmer than the body.
Edited on 30-11-2019 19:39
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