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Drought problem


Drought problem12-06-2021 11:55
clearwater
☆☆☆☆☆
(2)
I wondered what if we made electricity with solar energy and electricity we would turn seawater into oxygen and hydrogen, after which we converted hydrogen and oxygen back
electricity and we would pump the clean water thus obtained e.g.
Western Sahara and other deserts such as Australia. Clean water would make the deserts green and create their own rainfall and
hopefully would reduce the area of the desert and thus
would help the earth's food production.The necessary technology already exists.Just need to act ...
Mr clearwater..
12-06-2021 19:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15813)
You need a LOT of electricity to turn seawater into hydrogen and oxygen. Solar power isn't going to cut it.
There are easier ways to desalinate seawater. Many of these systems are already in place and are serving desert communities.
12-06-2021 21:22
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9568)


clearwater wrote:I wondered what if we made electricity with solar energy and electricity we would turn seawater into oxygen and hydrogen,

Any electricity you were to make from converting solar will be reprioritized to providing energy directly to people's homes or businesses.

I noticed your use of the pronoun "we" as in "What if we were to ..." which is the typical Marxist way of expressing a desire for the government to impose a particularly poor economic decision onto the people.

clearwater wrote: ... after which we converted hydrogen and oxygen back [to] electricity and we would pump the clean water thus obtained

The bottom line answer to your question is that the 2nd law of thermodynamics ensures that indirect applications of energy, i.e. ones that involve additional energy form changes, will result in a great reduction of the amount of energy available to perform desired work. Any convoluted process that involves changing the form of energy and then changing it back can only result in gross inefficiency.

This is why electric cars are a bad idea energy-wise because electric cars will be powered by electricity generated by gasoline generators. The result will be far fewer miles driven by electric cars for the equivalent amount of gasoline than the number of miles achieved by cars burning the gasoline directly in a combustion engine that directly produces the desired kinetic energy instead of first converting the chemical energy into electrical energy which is then converted to kinetic energy.

That answer again: The 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Just let for-profit commercial businesses install water purifiers/desalinators in their businesses to produce purified water for sale. That will result in the most efficient production of the optimal amount of purified water.

... unless, of course, your objective is to eliminate capitalism in which case you should just abandon your attempt.

Have a great day.

13-06-2021 00:03
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3514)
Why not just use sunlight directly? Mirrors, or Fresnel lens could easily bring water to boiling, just like a Kentucky corn whiskey still. The steam could also power an engine, for pumping, or even electricity. Solar panels are terribly inefficient. Makes me cringe a little, when people insist that they are the miracle that will save mankind from the evil CO2.

Electrolysis is kind of slow. Combining hydrogen and oxygen, only takes a spark... Not sure what all would be involved in collecting the fresh water produce, as vapor. But containing the explosion, so the water vapor doesn't escape, would be tough.

Distillation is cheap, and can serve several functions, if you want something with a little more 'kick', than fresh water.

Do to the alarming rise in sea level (not sure which one), you'd think we could solve two problems at once, and just haul polar ice to places needing fresh water, ice cold too. The ice caps are going to melt anyway, why let all that beer cooler material go to waste?

Fortunately, Florida has plenty of 'fresh' ground water, and more falling from the sky. Although, I'm a little reluctant to drink 'raw' ground water, or quite a few well water sources I've seen, most people have treatment systems.
13-06-2021 06:14
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1235)
This topic fits in to my wheelhouse as I am a plumber living in Western Australia.We emigrated in 1967 and I remember as a small child the Water supply company going on about using water wisely as we had limited amounts.Mundaring weir in the Perth hills supplied most of Perth water and also the pipeline to Kalgoorlie built by C.Y.Occoner.The population was around 700 Thousand and it all worked.New dams have been constructed heading South and bought on line over the last 50 years as the population has grown to over 2 Million now.To keep the flow desalination plants have been built at Kwinana and Binningup and they now supply 47% of potable water.The desalinated sea water is pumped directly to the storage dams so when the Water Corp declare the dams are at 30% and you go there and they are full as I have done its because they are going of what it would be not what it is.The Kimberleys in West Australia are tropical and then it is like a knife has cut it and you have the Tanami and Great Sandy Desert.I have always wondered with irrigation could this area be farmed.We have Indonesia to our North with 100 Million people and they are a lot closer than I am in my own country.Could it work??
13-06-2021 06:47
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9568)


HarveyH55 wrote:Do to the alarming rise in sea level (not sure which one), you'd think we could solve two problems at once, and just haul polar ice to places needing fresh water, ice cold too.

Yes. This is my idea.

The concept is that we build a pipeline from the coast of Newfoundland Canada down to a bottling factory in the US. We attach large tugboat engines to large ice bergs breaking off from the Greenland ice sheet and navigate them to the pipeline. The ice melt is then piped to the bottling factory and then shipped to commercial markets.

I would like to point out that Americans consumed 54.51 billion liters of bottled water in 2019, and just one large (1km diameter) ice berg, of which there are probably a few floating around right now, would fill one trillion one-liter bottles, or twenty years worth of fresh bottled water for the US in one swoop.

Of course, we will only be able to do this until the Greenland ice sheet is gone so we better get cracking on bottling the polar ice and get as much as we can.

13-06-2021 07:48
clearwater
☆☆☆☆☆
(2)
typical Marxist way..haha
The idea is by no means political ..

the idea is to pump freshwater made from seawater into the desert, how it is distilled is a side issue, but all easy and low-polluting means should go through. The idea of getting a "green Sahara" would probably do the same for the Arabian Peninsula ... Think about it ...
13-06-2021 08:45
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1235)
In Australia it is the vast distances that are the problem.
13-06-2021 19:16
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3514)
duncan61 wrote:
In Australia it is the vast distances that are the problem.


Humans have found was to travel great distances, quick too. Moving water from sea level (rising at an alarming rate...), should be too difficult to figure out. The main problem is politics, and price, not to mention the land owners. It's not so much what's beneficial, but how much profit can be expected for the initial costs of the project.

I'm sure Australia has landmarks, sacred ground, and protected environments for endangered species (weeds, toads, spotted locus, red tailed rats...), that would get a fight, if anybody suggested tampering or build on.
14-06-2021 05:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15813)
clearwater wrote:
typical Marxist way..haha
The idea is by no means political ..

the idea is to pump freshwater made from seawater into the desert, how it is distilled is a side issue, but all easy and low-polluting means should go through. The idea of getting a "green Sahara" would probably do the same for the Arabian Peninsula ... Think about it ...


There is no point in getting a green Sahara. The shifting sands consume anything built there, the rocky plateaus and escarpments don't offer any fertile land, and no significant population lives in it, other than places like the some oasis. Most of the population lives on the edge of the desert, either in the Nile valley or along the north and western coasts.

Desalination plants already provide fresh water there.

Spending energy to cycle water through electrolysis and back again is a waste of energy. You really should've listened to IBD. He was exactly right concerning the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

You are also completely failing to recognize that there is resistance to pumping water. The longer the distance, the more resistance. That will require energy too.

The Sahara is the 3rd largest desert in the world.


The Parrot Killer

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Edited on 14-06-2021 05:47
14-06-2021 06:52
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9568)


IBdaMann wrote:I would like to point out that Americans consumed 54.51 billion liters of bottled water in 2019, and just one large (1km diameter) ice berg, of which there are probably a few floating around right now, would fill one trillion one-liter bottles, or twenty years worth of fresh bottled water for the US in one swoop.


I would like to add that just one 1Km-diameter iceberg from Antarctica would cover all of Australia's current bottled water consumption for over 1,100 years, or provide eleven times Austalia's current consumption for more than 100 years, well beyond earth's certain catastrophic Climate doom.

Speaking of which, the world record iceberg (of the instrument record) just broke off Antarctica at the Filchner–Ronne Ice Shelf. It's an elongated shape, but if the surface were reshaped into a square, each side would be more than 65 kilometers (not quite two Rhode Islands). If we presume the ice berg is as thick as the rest of the shelf from which it calved (~500m) then we're talking enough water to give every person on the planet eight 1-liter bottles of water per day for 90 years.

15-06-2021 05:49
James___
★★★★★
(4736)
clearwater wrote:
I wondered what if we made electricity with solar energy and electricity we would turn seawater into oxygen and hydrogen, after which we converted hydrogen and oxygen back
electricity and we would pump the clean water thus obtained e.g.
Western Sahara and other deserts such as Australia. Clean water would make the deserts green and create their own rainfall and
hopefully would reduce the area of the desert and thus
would help the earth's food production.The necessary technology already exists.Just need to act ...
Mr clearwater..


Technology can solve many problems. I don't care to promote technology as a religion but most often such solutions are realized. On the other hand, technology cannot explain either IBDM or ITN. At the same time science makes known that the subatomic realm cannot be understood. Is it a coincidence that they cannot be understood?

Edited on 15-06-2021 06:26
15-06-2021 17:54
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9568)


James___ wrote:On the other hand, technology cannot explain either IBDM or ITN. At the same time science makes known that the subatomic realm cannot be understood. Is it a coincidence that they cannot be understood?

I totally get it.

I just came back from the doctor, getting my physical. While glancing at my labwork the doctor said "your blood pressure and your cholesterol are fine, but your intelligence is a little high. I'm going to put you on a Wikipedia regimen of one medium Wiki every six hours until you reach CDC desired levels."

I asked if there was something else I could do. I promised I would exercise more and would eat right. The doctor shrugged and said the only other option was the standard WHO enema being dispensed to third-world countries.

16-06-2021 00:46
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1235)
IBDM wrote
I totally get it.

I just came back from the doctor, getting my physical. While glancing at my labwork the doctor said "your blood pressure and your cholesterol are fine, but your intelligence is a little high. I'm going to put you on a Wikipedia regimen of one medium Wiki every six hours until you reach CDC desired levels."

I asked if there was something else I could do. I promised I would exercise more and would eat right. The doctor shrugged and said the only other option was the standard WHO enema being dispensed to third-world countries.

Thats funny right there.Perhaps you are not the overweight 13 year old girl living in your mums basement I suspected you are
16-06-2021 05:53
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9568)


duncan61 wrote:Thats funny right there.Perhaps you are not the overweight 13 year old girl living in your mums basement I suspected you are

How could you think that? I'm not a day under seventeen!

17-06-2021 06:08
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1235)
It was actually my son Ben that inspired me to insult you.I share with him how my research in to climate change is going and the latest topics.
17-06-2021 06:21
James___
★★★★★
(4736)
IBdaMann wrote:


James___ wrote:On the other hand, technology cannot explain either IBDM or ITN. At the same time science makes known that the subatomic realm cannot be understood. Is it a coincidence that they cannot be understood?

I totally get it.

I just came back from the doctor, getting my physical. While glancing at my labwork the doctor said "your blood pressure and your cholesterol are fine, but your intelligence is a little high. I'm going to put you on a Wikipedia regimen of one medium Wiki every six hours until you reach CDC desired levels."

I asked if there was something else I could do. I promised I would exercise more and would eat right. The doctor shrugged and said the only other option was the standard WHO enema being dispensed to third-world countries.



If your Wiki is leaking, maybe you have an STD? That's been known to happen.
There is a pill you can take for that. But really, you should see a doctor about that drip your having.
Are you suggesting that you like enemas? Are they fulfilling? Or is it simply the discharge? Queerious minds want to know.


p.s.s, you guys really make this too easy.

Edited on 17-06-2021 06:21
17-06-2021 06:37
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9568)


James___ wrote:If your Wiki is leaking, maybe you have an STD?

What if my Safemoon is leaking directly into "liquidity"? Should I see a doctor about the steady discharge into actual cryptocurrencies?

James___ wrote: There is a pill you can take for that.

Is there a pill for FUD?

17-06-2021 07:04
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1235)
Love your work IBDM
17-06-2021 07:18
James___
★★★★★
(4736)
IBdaMann wrote:

What if my Safemoon is leaking directly into "liquidity"? Should I see a doctor about the steady discharge into actual cryptocurrencies?




Unless you control the currency, you will lose.
17-06-2021 09:44
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1235)
I do not agree james my son bought $3000 bitcoin and sold for $45000 thats a win
17-06-2021 16:40
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9568)


duncan61 wrote:I do not agree james my son bought $3000 bitcoin and sold for $45000 thats a win

Of course, even though the casino owns all the tables and all the machines, they lose to gamblers occasionally as well.





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