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Corruption, which party is the greater problem?



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Corruption, which party is the greater problem?28-09-2019 23:04
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
The House sort of jumped the starting gun, on impeachment. They made the announcement, while the president was speaking at the UN. Instead of reporters asking about the conferences, the focused on UkraineGate. The phone call transcript hadn't been released, nor the whistle-blower complaint. Seems like they had prior knowledge of both, and acted before they had the documents, to disrupt the UN meetings. Isn't political motives, the basis for the impeachment inquiry? I've read both, the call transcript, and the complaint, neither are likely complete. Got to wonder why they are taking notes, and not recording phone calls. Seems a little silly, both parties would be aware that the calls are monitored, likely recorded anyway.

The phone transcript didn't give me any indication that Trump was pressuring, or manipulating, just a friendly chat. The Ukraine president wasn't hesitant or reluctant. There were quite a few things during the Obama years, that didn't take long to dismiss, that were a little more troubling than Trump's phone call.

Hunter Biden wasn't really executive material, lack the education, experience, job history, for a foreign company to hire, and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars. That company was already under investigation, before Biden got hired, and they got their legal troubles straighten out kind of quick. Hunter was under investigation, and his dad ended that quick too. Heard that Joe Biden was authorized to do what he did, to get that prosecutor removed from his son's investigation. Smells of conspiracy and corruption. Hunter was no angel, been in trouble many times.

Benghazi, Hilary's missing Emails, some more strange doings, that should have been looked at closely. The Emails were important to an investigation, why was her team allowed all the time the need to sort out her personal stuff, from work related? Anybody else in America would have had their house trashed, and boxes of crap hauled off. Obviously, there is some corruption there as well. She work for the State Department, but no trust, that her server would be handled securely? She either knew it wouldn't, or had fears of what else would be found. Thinking a whole lot of both.

The Whistle-blower's complaint, reads more like conspiracy theory, than actual knowledge. Doesn't cite things he actually witnessed, only thing others were discussing, which could have just been stuff they read on the internet, just water-cooler talk. The man, is a CIA agent, which I've always gotten the impression of 'spy'. If this was the best he could throw together, doubtful Trump is such a bad boy after all. The whole complaint is vague, and mostly opinionated interpretations, of what other people were talking about.

Does Trump really need foreign help to win an election? Didn't think so with Hilary, and 2 1/2 years of investigation, didn't dig anything up. Joe Biden never had a chance, be surprised if he even makes it to the primaries. Just don't see Trump as being that desperate.

I really think that when impeachment actual goes to the floor for a vote, it's going to be a coin toss. I'm sure several seats are up for grabs in 2020, loyal to the party, or loyal to the voters, tough call. Even if passes, doubtful the Senate will convict. But, it's a slow process, and it'll drag out past the election. Republicans lose the Senate, might lose the president. I;m doubtful it'll go that far, it's as weak as the Russian investigation, and will end the same.
28-09-2019 23:14
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
@Harvey, when Trump withheld aid to Ukraine until they were willing to investigate a political rival, that is an impeachable offense if proven. The reality is that he cannot be impeached. Republicans control the Senate.
Democrats are stupid for pursuing an action that the opposition can simply refuse to hear in the Senate. All my senator has to do is not let it be heard on the senate floor. In the US, only my senator can allow that to happen.
As a Kentuckian, I hope my senator shows Americans who is in charge and that is Kentucky. Go Big Blue Nation!!!!
I live in Lexington KY, Mitch is God.


And I love his wife. They are willing to discuss shipping with China on behalf of Senator McConnell's father. Them Chinese are smart. Even Harvey knows this. Otherwise he wouldn't by quality products reasonably priced by people who know what they are doing. Why I like Harvey

Edited on 28-09-2019 23:18
28-09-2019 23:43
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Did you read the transcript? They didn't talk about aid money, or Trump's re-election. The previous Ukraine president killed the Biden investigation, because aid money was withheld. Don't think he was going to admit corruption, which many already suspected/knew. New president, new operatunity to get some real answers. Like the Russian investigation, the democrats are over-reaching, reading more into it than actually happened.
28-09-2019 23:46
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote: @Harvey, when Trump withheld aid to Ukraine until they were willing to investigate a political rival, that is an impeachable offense if proven.

James__, you're kind of blowing chunks here.

1. Anything and everything is an "impeachable offense." The House can simply vote to impeach without any reason given. The Senate can convict without requiring any reason to be given.

Helping an old lady cross the street is an impeachable offense.

2. You are a tool for the DNC. Your thoughts are not your own. You are allowing yourself to be an obedient attack dog simply for the promise of DNC affection, i.e. they will gladly feed your addiction by validating that you are right to feel like a victim.

The only way you can remove your DNC leash is to kick your addiction. Since that's not likely to happen, you'll be pleased to know that the DNC will always be there for you as a refuge, as your "safe place" where you can always count on being told that you are being victimized ... even as we speak ... by all those evil ... umm ... by all those classes of people into which you do not fall!

... and your fix will be a sure thing ... again and again.

By the way, I cannot fully understand your position because I have never been addicted to victimhood. I trust you that it sucks as much as you describe.


James___ wrote: The reality is that he cannot be impeached. Republicans control the Senate.

... but you can still fixate on Nancy Pelosi announcing "impeachment." It will help you feel so much better just taking a deep breath and saying the "I" word. You can help yourself get to sleep at night by counting impeachment inquiries.

James___ wrote: Democrats are stupid for pursuing an action that the opposition can simply refuse to hear in the Senate.

That is the very LEAST of the reasons they are stupid.

James___ wrote: As a Kentuckian, I hope my senator shows Americans who is in charge and that is Kentucky. Go Big Blue Nation!!!!
I live in Lexington KY, Mitch is God.

Wow! Kudos to you and the Cats. I will make a concerted effort to disambiguate "UK" in the future. I don't want anyone mistakenly thinking that I am poking fun at the winningest basketball team ever.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
28-09-2019 23:52
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Did you read the transcript? They didn't talk about aid money, or Trump's re-election. The previous Ukraine president killed the Biden investigation, because aid money was withheld. Don't think he was going to admit corruption, which many already suspected/knew. New president, new operatunity to get some real answers. Like the Russian investigation, the democrats are over-reaching, reading more into it than actually happened.


According to the BBC, Trump purposely withheld $400 million in aid to Ukraine. Please show the transcript. You chose not to. But as I said, Trump can't be impeached because Kentuckians won't allow it. This is about who is running the US and it's Kentucky. If you don't love Kentucky then you don't love America.

After all, Mitch is Our B1tch.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49842895

And Harvey, When Mitch was running for reelection in 2014 he said that he was going to run America from Kentucky.
I have 2 questions for you. Who can pass the Federal Budget or seat a federal judge?
Mitch can and Trump can't. If he doesn't like it it, he doesn't have to let it be heard on the senate floor. He alone decides what the senate allows.
You have the internet. Search for information about his and Trump's relationship the first 2 years Trump was in office.
https://youtu.be/JK5dBEKlNMc
Mitch knows the legislative process, why he's running the country from Kentucky as promised.

An example of the power that Mitch has. He can adjourn the senate to prevent any action by the senate that he does not support.
https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/191057-mcconnell-youll-regret-this
Then after this he shut down the federal government because he wanted HIS budget passed.
While the president can be vetoed, that can't happen to Mitch.
Edited on 29-09-2019 00:50
29-09-2019 02:17
keepit
★★★☆☆
(598)
It sure looks like the Senate will never convict but if the Dems make a good case then the Repubs could lose a few seats in the 2020 election because of it.
By the way, i'm neither a Dem nor a Repub. I've never even voted.
29-09-2019 02:49
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Did you read the transcript? They didn't talk about aid money, or Trump's re-election. The previous Ukraine president killed the Biden investigation, because aid money was withheld. Don't think he was going to admit corruption, which many already suspected/knew. New president, new operatunity to get some real answers. Like the Russian investigation, the democrats are over-reaching, reading more into it than actually happened.


According to the BBC, Trump purposely withheld $400 million in aid to Ukraine. Please show the transcript. You chose not to. But as I said, Trump can't be impeached because Kentuckians won't allow it. This is about who is running the US and it's Kentucky. If you don't love Kentucky then you don't love America.

After all, Mitch is Our B1tch.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49842895

And Harvey, When Mitch was running for reelection in 2014 he said that he was going to run America from Kentucky.
I have 2 questions for you. Who can pass the Federal Budget or seat a federal judge?
Mitch can and Trump can't. If he doesn't like it it, he doesn't have to let it be heard on the senate floor. He alone decides what the senate allows.
You have the internet. Search for information about his and Trump's relationship the first 2 years Trump was in office.
https://youtu.be/JK5dBEKlNMc
Mitch knows the legislative process, why he's running the country from Kentucky as promised.

An example of the power that Mitch has. He can adjourn the senate to prevent any action by the senate that he does not support.
https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/191057-mcconnell-youll-regret-this
Then after this he shut down the federal government because he wanted HIS budget passed.
While the president can be vetoed, that can't happen to Mitch.


This is the phone call transcript. You can Google it, and easy to find. Surprised you didn't think to do that yourself.

Mitch is the Senate version of Nancy. The federal budget has to pass the House, the Senate, and be signed by the president. It can be rejected anywhere along the way. Veto needs a full majority to override. Mitch is a great guy, but he isn't quite all you dream up.
Attached file:
ukraine-transcript.pdf
29-09-2019 03:19
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
keepit wrote:
It sure looks like the Senate will never convict but if the Dems make a good case then the Repubs could lose a few seats in the 2020 election because of it.
By the way, i'm neither a Dem nor a Repub. I've never even voted.


I would think they are going to need something a little more substantial, then what they have in hand. Mostly, they are talking fantasy, like the Russian investigation. They want to believe the worst of the president, and think if the yell loud enough, everyone is going to believe it too. Basically, they are calling two presidents liars. Ours might embellish a little, but don't think he's deliberately lied, maybe misinformed a few times. He does watch a lot of fake news, spends way too much time on the internet.
29-09-2019 03:39
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
keepit wrote:
It sure looks like the Senate will never convict but if the Dems make a good case then the Repubs could lose a few seats in the 2020 election because of it.
By the way, i'm neither a Dem nor a Repub. I've never even voted.


I would think they are going to need something a little more substantial, then what they have in hand. Mostly, they are talking fantasy, like the Russian investigation. They want to believe the worst of the president, and think if the yell loud enough, everyone is going to believe it too. Basically, they are calling two presidents liars. Ours might embellish a little, but don't think he's deliberately lied, maybe misinformed a few times. He does watch a lot of fake news, spends way too much time on the internet.



When did Biden go around saying he stopped the investigation?
He never did. That prosecutor was removed from his position. Biden wasn't being investigated. But because Trump wants him investigated, he will be. And that is because the leader of a foreign country will have HIS man doing it. I think the Ukrainian press will have fun with this. Zylenski was elected because Ukrainians were tired of corruption. Why the former prosecutor was removed from his position.
Their president implying that a prosecutor that answers to him will do the investigation so they can help Trump.
And during this call Zylenski knew that $400 million in aid was stopped by Trump. What would you do for $400 million?
And since Biden is a presidential candidate, this means that Ukraine is going to interfere with our election for president. And this simply means that the Republican party supports foreign countries interfering with our elections.
To me, the call sounded like the "Fix" was on.

You need to get details right Harvey. Giuliani isn't a government official. He is Trump's personal lawyer. As such he should not be conducting state business. What Trump should have done was to have the right government officials request the files about the investigation that Biden was associated with. That's the right way to do it. That wasn't done.
What Trump did is an impeachable offense but the Republican party controls the senate.
It just doesn't mean anything anymore to be an American.

Trump has outright lied. He said he gave the military its first pay raise in over 10 years. Can't be anymore obvious than that.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2018/12/27/in-iraq-visit-trump-makes-false-claim-about-military-pay-again/

I know you'll say The Military Times got it wrong. It just doesn't matter to you. Trump makes you feel better about yourself. Even when you are wrong, who cares? It's never stopped Trump.
Edited on 29-09-2019 03:53
29-09-2019 03:51
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Hunter Biden was on the board of directors, for a gas company, that was under investigation. That investigation ended, when the prosecutor in charge was removed. And, the company was cleared of any wrong doing as well. All, as a result of Daddy Joe fixing things. This was before the current president was elected. New president, new prosecutor to look into it. How did Hunter get on the board of directors, with no experience, and not an impressive job history? The corrupt prosecutor and president claimed no wrong doing, but isn't that what Joe paid for? Isn't that kind of similar to what Trump is facing? Guess democrats get a free pass...
29-09-2019 04:07
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Hunter Biden was on the board of directors, for a gas company, that was under investigation. That investigation ended, when the prosecutor in charge was removed. And, the company was cleared of any wrong doing as well. All, as a result of Daddy Joe fixing things. This was before the current president was elected. New president, new prosecutor to look into it. How did Hunter get on the board of directors, with no experience, and not an impressive job history? The corrupt prosecutor and president claimed no wrong doing, but isn't that what Joe paid for? Isn't that kind of similar to what Trump is facing? Guess democrats get a free pass...



You're an idiot IMO. All you seem to care about is saying that you are better than a Democrat. Like you just said, if a foreign country helps your candidate to win, what's the problem?
Then that means that in the future foreign countries could use our elections to benefit themselves. That's what the real issue is but you're OK with it. Rome all over again.
29-09-2019 04:17
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Hunter Biden was on the board of directors, for a gas company, that was under investigation. That investigation ended, when the prosecutor in charge was removed. And, the company was cleared of any wrong doing as well. All, as a result of Daddy Joe fixing things. This was before the current president was elected. New president, new prosecutor to look into it. How did Hunter get on the board of directors, with no experience, and not an impressive job history? The corrupt prosecutor and president claimed no wrong doing, but isn't that what Joe paid for? Isn't that kind of similar to what Trump is facing? Guess democrats get a free pass...



You're an idiot IMO. All you seem to care about is saying that you are better than a Democrat. Like you just said, if a foreign country helps your candidate to win, what's the problem?
Then that means that in the future foreign countries could use our elections to benefit themselves. That's what the real issue is but you're OK with it. Rome all over again.


Would you believe it, if you heard it from groper-Joe's mouth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY

About a minute clip, where Joe brags about withholding a billion dollars in loans, in exchange for the prosecutor getting fired. Even some unwanted touching at the end.

I'll also do some more of your homework for you, and find the Hunter Biden stuff for you, since you lack the capacity to do it yourself. Are you ever going to learn, your hero's only tell you the part of the story, that makes them look like Gods, for you to worship. Try thinking and acting for yourself. You've been lied to. And quite watch the fake news channels, it's destroying brain cells.
29-09-2019 04:41
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote: When did Biden go around saying he stopped the investigation? He never did.

Do you really expect anyone to believe that you somehow know what Biden never said? It sure appears that Ukraine is fully aware that a previous honest Ukranian prosecuter was shut down for political motives related to Vice President Biden ... and you haven't offered anything of substance indicating that Ukraine is somehow mistaken or somehow revising history.

It looks to me like Biden is going down, and rightfully so. It also seems obvious that accusations hurled at Trump are purely partisan dishonesty and are to be treated as such.

James___ wrote: You're an idiot IMO.

... but you know how much weight your partisan, Trump-hating opinion has on this matter. HarveyH55 is spot on.


James___ wrote: All you seem to care about is saying that you are better than a Democrat.

Being better than a Democrat is not a concern, ... it's an observation.

James___ wrote: Like you just said, if a foreign country helps your candidate to win, what's the problem?

So, are you going to answer? Suppose Peru finds it in their interest for the Libertarian candidate to win a particular election, so they offer help him/her with funding. How does that force you, as a voter, to vote for the Libertarian candidate?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-09-2019 04:44
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Here's a fair summary, although a little forgiving. It gives the main details, timeline. It's a recent story. I'll dig up one of the older articles, when the firing went down, which raised some interesting questions, never answered.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/hunter-bidens-legal-socially-acceptable-corruption/598804/
29-09-2019 05:20
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Try thinking and acting for yourself. You've been lied to. And quite watch the fake news channels, it's destroying brain cells.



Says the guy who doesn't think we can tell what sea level is. Can't discuss science so you go political.
A 2019 story was not written in 2006 or even 2007.

What the Ukrainian prosecutor said earlier this year. It won't look good for their president there if Ukranians see him as doing what ever Trump wants. Trump is friends with Putin and Ukraine is at war with Russia. That's a soap opera.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/hunter-biden-did-not-violate-anything-former-ukrainian-prosecutor-says-n1059136

I am also mindful that New York state and city are going after Trump's tax returns because of the pattern of fraud that has been uncovered. It does seem this is all you can discuss though.
29-09-2019 05:28
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
HarveyH55 wrote:...call transcript, and the complaint, neither are likely complete....
No what we now have is directly from the white house who wisely just issued it:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-transcript-call/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-ukraine-call-transcript-read-the-document

The Whistle blower said the call was to "solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election". Work with Guliiani after the call, to find DNC servers in the Ukaraine and prosecute the Bidens. (color coded below with some links)

July 25, 2019, 9:03-9:33 am EDT
TRUMP: Congratulations on a great victory. We all watched from the United States and you did a terrific job. The way you came from behind, somebody who wasn't given much of a chance, and you ended up winning easily. It's a fantastic achievement. Congratulations.
President Zelenskyy: You are absolutely right...we can talk over the phone more often.
TRUMP: (laughter) That's a very good idea. I think your country is very happy about that.
President Zelenskyy: ...we wanted to drain the swamp here...
TRUMP: Well it is very nice of you to say that. I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it's something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do anything. A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it's something you want to look at but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.
President Zelenskyy: ...I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much...
TRUMP: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.
President Zelenskyy: ...all the investigations will be done openly and candidly.. That I can assure you.
TRUMP: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
President Zelenskyy: ...the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, ... He or she will look into the situation, ...
TRUMP: Well, she's going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It's a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their incredible people.
President Zelenskyy: ...I also have quite a few Ukrainian friends that live in the United States...
TRUMP: Good. Well, thank you very much and I appreciate that. I will tell Rudy and Attorney General Barr to call. Thank you. Whenever you would like to come to the White House, feel free to call. Give us a date and we'll work that out. I look forward to seeing you.
President Zelenskyy: ...I also would like to invite you to visit Ukraine...
TRUMP: Okay, we can work that out. I look forward to seeing you in Washington and maybe in Poland because I think we are going to be there at that time.
President Zelenskyy: Thank you very much Mr. President.
TRUMP: Congratulations on a fantastic job you've done. The whole world was watching. I'm not sure it was so much of an upset but congratulations.
President Zelenskyy: Thank you Mr. President bye-bye.
- - End of conversation - -

So was the purpose of the call to use the presidency to solicit a foreign government to go after polical rivals? Yes, yes it was.

Impeachment of course is a political process and there is nothing wrong with that. I'd say the way it went down with Nixon shows it can work fairly.

What's at issue now is just an inquiry.


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
29-09-2019 05:49
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Try thinking and acting for yourself. You've been lied to. And quite watch the fake news channels, it's destroying brain cells.



Says the guy who doesn't think we can tell what sea level is. Can't discuss science so you go political.
A 2019 story was not written in 2006 or even 2007.

What the Ukrainian prosecutor said earlier this year. It won't look good for their president there if Ukranians see him as doing what ever Trump wants. Trump is friends with Putin and Ukraine is at war with Russia. That's a soap opera.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/hunter-biden-did-not-violate-anything-former-ukrainian-prosecutor-says-n1059136

I am also mindful that New York state and city are going after Trump's tax returns because of the pattern of fraud that has been uncovered. It does seem this is all you can discuss though.


https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/436816-joe-bidens-2020-ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived

You get easily confused. NO, we can NOT measure sea level.

I also mentioned it would take some digging to find the old articles. It's a hot topic, and Google is flooding the results with the democrat version. Basically, the case was dropped, so no wrong doing. The Ukraine wasn't the only country investigating Burisma, or Hunter Biden's company. It's all documented, and will be brought out in the inquiry, I'm sure.

I tried to attach the Whistler-blower complaint, but it's 4 meg, and we have a 2 meg limit. The PDF is all over the internet, you should read it. It should really appeal to you, it was written in your style... No actual knowledge, just giving your opinion and interpretation, of what you read or heard someone else had to say, in a similar fashion.
29-09-2019 06:01
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...call transcript, and the complaint, neither are likely complete....
No what we now have is directly from the white house who wisely just issued it:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/25/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-transcript-call/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-ukraine-call-transcript-read-the-document

The Whistle blower said the call was to "solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election". Work with Guliiani after the call, to find DNC servers in the Ukaraine and prosecute the Bidens. (color coded below with some links)

July 25, 2019, 9:03-9:33 am EDT
TRUMP: Congratulations on a great victory. We all watched from the United States and you did a terrific job. The way you came from behind, somebody who wasn't given much of a chance, and you ended up winning easily. It's a fantastic achievement. Congratulations.
President Zelenskyy: You are absolutely right...we can talk over the phone more often.
TRUMP: (laughter) That's a very good idea. I think your country is very happy about that.
President Zelenskyy: ...we wanted to drain the swamp here...
TRUMP: Well it is very nice of you to say that. I will say that we do a lot for Ukraine. We spend a lot of effort and a lot of time. Much more than the European countries are doing and they should be helping you more than they are. Germany does almost nothing for you. All they do is talk and I think it's something that you should really ask them about. When I was speaking to Angela Merkel she talks Ukraine, but she ·doesn't do anything. A lot of the European countries are the same way so I think it's something you want to look at but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine. I wouldn't say that it's reciprocal necessarily because things are happening that are not good but the United States has been very very good to Ukraine.
President Zelenskyy: ...I also met and talked with Macron and I told them that they are not doing quite as much...
TRUMP: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you're surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it's very important that you do it if that's possible.
President Zelenskyy: ...all the investigations will be done openly and candidly.. That I can assure you.
TRUMP: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.
President Zelenskyy: ...the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, ... He or she will look into the situation, ...
TRUMP: Well, she's going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I'm sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It's a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their incredible people.
President Zelenskyy: ...I also have quite a few Ukrainian friends that live in the United States...
TRUMP: Good. Well, thank you very much and I appreciate that. I will tell Rudy and Attorney General Barr to call. Thank you. Whenever you would like to come to the White House, feel free to call. Give us a date and we'll work that out. I look forward to seeing you.
President Zelenskyy: ...I also would like to invite you to visit Ukraine...
TRUMP: Okay, we can work that out. I look forward to seeing you in Washington and maybe in Poland because I think we are going to be there at that time.
President Zelenskyy: Thank you very much Mr. President.
TRUMP: Congratulations on a fantastic job you've done. The whole world was watching. I'm not sure it was so much of an upset but congratulations.
President Zelenskyy: Thank you Mr. President bye-bye.
- - End of conversation - -

So was the purpose of the call to use the presidency to solicit a foreign government to go after polical rivals? Yes, yes it was.

Impeachment of course is a political process and there is nothing wrong with that. I'd say the way it went down with Nixon shows it can work fairly.

What's at issue now is just an inquiry.


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them



Something to consider, what if Republicans want Pence to be President?
29-09-2019 06:07
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
James___ wrote: Something to consider, what if Republicans want Pence to be President?
I'm very very pro choice (as TRUMP was before he wasn't) and I hate most of Pence's politics but I'd take him in a heart beat. I'm more afraid (terrified really) of having our democracy destroyed by Trump. The threat is far beyond political direction.

It comes down to Ends and Means. I always think the Means matter most. HOW we get things done is 1,000,000 times more important than what gets done.


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
Edited on 29-09-2019 06:08
29-09-2019 07:10
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
tmiddles wrote:The Whistle blower said the call was to "solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election".

... and obviously there's nothing to this story. This is a huge nothing-gyro.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-09-2019 07:25
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:The Whistle blower said the call was to "solicit interference from a foreign country in the 2020 U.S. election".

... and obviously there's nothing to this story. This is a huge nothing-gyro.

Do they eat a lot of gyros in Ukraine? Of course this is staggeringly stupid on the part of Trump (par for the course) and it's a scandal with the call alone. I mean think about it! The Muller investigation dealt heavily with a meeting with a foreign power to get dirt on a political opponent. He then calls up a foreign leader to do just that!!!

If his office abused their power to try to cover it up (as appears to be the case) then it get's a lot worse.

If there is evidence he threatened Ukraine with cutting off aid you have a quid pro quo and it's a gyro that will feed us all.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-ukraine-aid-was-stalled-over-corruption-concerns-decries-impeachment-frenzy


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
29-09-2019 07:47
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
tmiddles wrote:Of course this is staggeringly stupid on the part of Trump (par for the course) and it's a scandal with the call alone.

You're deluded.

Every President and Prime Minister has many such conversations with other heads of state all the time.

There is no scandal. There was nothing stupid. There's nothing to see here.

tmiddles wrote: I mean think about it! The Muller investigation dealt heavily with a meeting with a foreign power to get dirt on a political opponent. He then calls up a foreign leader to do just that!!!

Nope. Trump spoke with Zelenskyy about legitimate concerns. Biden bragged about his own corruption and material evidence (server) might be over there in the Ukraine requiring his assistance to look into it.

Trump, on the other hand, had done nothing wrong and was a victim of Obama's FBI and other agencies.

We SHOULD enlist all the help we can muster to get to the bottom these deeply troubling matters. I want be clear, I believe all involved should have their day in court to tell their side of the story, but if the final outcome is that Hillary, Joe and Barack need to spend some time behind bars, I think We the People are ready for that kind of closure.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-09-2019 07:56
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
IBdaMann wrote:
Every President and Prime Minister has many such conversations

You made this up. Give an example.

IBdaMann wrote:
Biden bragged about his own corruption

When? Also made up.

Don't just make things up. It's annoying.


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
29-09-2019 08:08
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
I didn't think Trump needed help finding, dirt on Clinton, more than enough here. He probably didn't even consider Joe, as a candidate, while on the phone either. Joe is no threat in the election, why ask for foreign help? It was just a phone call, and restarting an investigation that got put to an abrupt, and questionable end. Had Joe not been running for president, would the call have been, just a normal call? Does running for president excuse past transgressions?

I really don't think this inquiry is going to be done in a similar way as the Russian investigation. It'll be done mostly publicly, and a lot is going to be brought out. Stuff the democrats are going to regret. They might not have broken laws, but they did get to stuff a lot cash in their pockets.
29-09-2019 09:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Every President and Prime Minister has many such conversations

You made this up. Give an example.

IBdaMann wrote:
Biden bragged about his own corruption

When? Also made up.

Don't just make things up. It's annoying.


You're really going to go for this bald-faced lie, aren't you?


The Parrot Killer
29-09-2019 09:48
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
HarveyH55 wrote: Joe is no threat in the election, why ask for foreign help?
Is that a question directed at Trump as to why he did?

There is no question he did is there? Are we back to the level of reinventing reality that says Trump never called for a ban on Muslims entering the country?

Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Every President and Prime Minister has many such conversations
You made this up. Give an example.
You're really going to go for this bald-faced lie, aren't you?
Just what I thought. You got nothing.


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
29-09-2019 16:03
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Every President and Prime Minister has many such conversations

You made this up. Give an example.

You're really going to go for this bald-faced lie, aren't you?

Just what I thought. You got nothing.


@Into the Night, so tmiddles ignores HarveyH55's posts as well, apparently because he senses dissent.

Correct me if I'm mistaken:

1. Biden brags about his strong-arming of Ukraine via withholding of aid to bid an investigation of Hunter here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY (courtesy HarveyH55)

2. Trump alerts Zelenskyy "there's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me."

... am I missing something? tmiddles is hyperventilating like a scandal occurred. I have read the transcript several times and watched HarveyH55's video several times (both are posted on Politiplex) just be sure and it really seems that tmiddles apoplexy is just a symptom of his overarching Marxism-induced delusion.

Am I mistaken?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-09-2019 16:32
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
I didn't think Trump needed help finding, dirt on Clinton, more than enough here. He probably didn't even consider Joe, as a candidate, while on the phone either. Joe is no threat in the election, why ask for foreign help? It was just a phone call, and restarting an investigation that got put to an abrupt, and questionable end. Had Joe not been running for president, would the call have been, just a normal call? Does running for president excuse past transgressions?

I really don't think this inquiry is going to be done in a similar way as the Russian investigation. It'll be done mostly publicly, and a lot is going to be brought out. Stuff the democrats are going to regret. They might not have broken laws, but they did get to stuff a lot cash in their pockets.


The war in Iraq was illegal. The UN found nothing and neither did we. G. W. Bush misled congress because he wanted us in a war.
And I know you won't care about any of this because it's about you. It's sad that you ignored things like this where our president made their friends company even richer. And Harvey, don't be surprised if the Republican party impeaches Trump. That would give them political leverage and get rid of someone they don't like.
If they do, what will you say? That the Republican party was wrong?
https://www.ft.com/content/7f435f04-8c05-11e2-b001-00144feabdc0
https://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/haliburton.html

As long as none of what I just posted doesn't matter to you, those people got the mother of free rides which lead to the Great Recession of 2008.
Interesting what was said in 2016. What if the GOP wants to get back it's party from Trump? Et tu Brutus?
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/donald-trump-republican-party/gop-future
Edited on 29-09-2019 16:46
29-09-2019 17:36
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Every President and Prime Minister has many such conversations

You made this up. Give an example.

IBdaMann wrote:
Biden bragged about his own corruption

When? Also made up.

Don't just make things up. It's annoying.


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them


I posted a link to the video of Joe, telling it. He's on stage, with two other people, before a large audience. Here's the link, again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY

It's only about a minute long, no excuse not to watch, other than you don't want to to see the truth. You obviously don't read very thing. I also posted the PDF of the call, but you decided to fill the page with a semi-accurate text version. I'd put up the complaint PDF, but it exceeds the file limit.

But, if Trump was withholding money, as leverage, was the Ukraine informed? Meaning, when did Trump put it on hold, and when was the Ukraine told? Wasn't mentioned in the phone call, nor in anything else, so far. I'm not sure if the democrats know either, they just made that conclusion, before they even had the transcript or complaint.
29-09-2019 18:15
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
I didn't think Trump needed help finding, dirt on Clinton, more than enough here. He probably didn't even consider Joe, as a candidate, while on the phone either. Joe is no threat in the election, why ask for foreign help? It was just a phone call, and restarting an investigation that got put to an abrupt, and questionable end. Had Joe not been running for president, would the call have been, just a normal call? Does running for president excuse past transgressions?

I really don't think this inquiry is going to be done in a similar way as the Russian investigation. It'll be done mostly publicly, and a lot is going to be brought out. Stuff the democrats are going to regret. They might not have broken laws, but they did get to stuff a lot cash in their pockets.


The war in Iraq was illegal. The UN found nothing and neither did we. G. W. Bush misled congress because he wanted us in a war.
And I know you won't care about any of this because it's about you. It's sad that you ignored things like this where our president made their friends company even richer. And Harvey, don't be surprised if the Republican party impeaches Trump. That would give them political leverage and get rid of someone they don't like.
If they do, what will you say? That the Republican party was wrong?
https://www.ft.com/content/7f435f04-8c05-11e2-b001-00144feabdc0
https://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/haliburton.html

As long as none of what I just posted doesn't matter to you, those people got the mother of free rides which lead to the Great Recession of 2008.
Interesting what was said in 2016. What if the GOP wants to get back it's party from Trump? Et tu Brutus?
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/donald-trump-republican-party/gop-future


Iraq war wasn't illegal, Saddam stated clearly, many times, that he did posses weapons of mass destruction. He had the money, and potential to have them. Weapons of mass destruction, aren't necessarily nuclear either. But, then again, Saddam lied and boasted about a lot of stuff, and also committed a lot of death and destruction, on his own people. The war was every bit as 'legal' as these witch hunts on Trump. Iraq was a strategic choice as well, it cuts through the middle of the entire region over there. The terrorist we were hunting, were primarily confined to traveling across land.

I don't believe Trump will get thrown out of office. They haven't voted yet, to impeach yet, which means they haven't got a strong case to begin with, the inquiry is to dig up some actual dirt to use in the impeachment (trial). If the phone call alone was a strong case, and actual crime, they would have put it to a vote, and gone straight to trial. It's wishful thinking, politics, but nothing they can prosecute. The inquiry is all they have justification for, at this point, a fishing expedition, like the Russian meddling probe. You see that it'll take months, before impeachment actually comes up for a vote, which should be before the primaries, but not too soon either.

Adam Shiffty has already cast the first net, and requesting all of Trumps phone calls, to several other countries, outside of just the Ukraine. Instead of focusing on the charges made, he's going to keep grabbing any and all information he can squeeze, for anything useful in his political agenda. Just like the Russia probe. More people around Trump will be destroyed, or thrown in prison, for relatively minor offenses, not related to the investigation. It's his tactic to weaken his enemy, the goal has always been to take out the president.
29-09-2019 18:45
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote:The war in Iraq was illegal.

The Iraq invasion was completely legal and unanimously approved by the UN.

James___ wrote:The UN found nothing and neither did we.

The legality of the Iraq invasion was not dependent on finding anything. The need to invade Iraq was created by Saddam Hussein. The UN was careful to document every single transgression and eager to express its unanimity in calling for action.

James__, you allowed yourself to be tooled by a dishonest media that tried to rewrite history to begin on the day of the Iraq invasion. None of what you are saying makes any sense.

James___ wrote:G. W. Bush misled congress because he wanted us in a war.

You are propagating media dishonesty, pretending to ascribe evil intentions to someone defending America's interests. You haven't said anything that any reasonable person wouldn't immediately dismiss.

James___ wrote: As long as none of what I just posted doesn't matter to you, those people got the mother of free rides which lead to the Great Recession of 2008.

That was Bill Clinton's doing. We have already exhausted the Fair Housing Act and other components creating inevitable burst of the housing bubble.

James___ wrote: Et tu Brutus?

... et tu Brute ?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 29-09-2019 18:47
29-09-2019 19:26
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
I didn't think Trump needed help finding, dirt on Clinton, more than enough here. He probably didn't even consider Joe, as a candidate, while on the phone either. Joe is no threat in the election, why ask for foreign help? It was just a phone call, and restarting an investigation that got put to an abrupt, and questionable end. Had Joe not been running for president, would the call have been, just a normal call? Does running for president excuse past transgressions?

I really don't think this inquiry is going to be done in a similar way as the Russian investigation. It'll be done mostly publicly, and a lot is going to be brought out. Stuff the democrats are going to regret. They might not have broken laws, but they did get to stuff a lot cash in their pockets.


The war in Iraq was illegal. The UN found nothing and neither did we. G. W. Bush misled congress because he wanted us in a war.
And I know you won't care about any of this because it's about you. It's sad that you ignored things like this where our president made their friends company even richer. And Harvey, don't be surprised if the Republican party impeaches Trump. That would give them political leverage and get rid of someone they don't like.
If they do, what will you say? That the Republican party was wrong?
https://www.ft.com/content/7f435f04-8c05-11e2-b001-00144feabdc0
https://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/haliburton.html

As long as none of what I just posted doesn't matter to you, those people got the mother of free rides which lead to the Great Recession of 2008.
Interesting what was said in 2016. What if the GOP wants to get back it's party from Trump? Et tu Brutus?
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/donald-trump-republican-party/gop-future


Iraq war wasn't illegal, Saddam stated clearly, many times, that he did posses weapons of mass destruction. He had the money, and potential to have them. Weapons of mass destruction, aren't necessarily nuclear either. But, then again, Saddam lied and boasted about a lot of stuff, and also committed a lot of death and destruction, on his own people. The war was every bit as 'legal' as these witch hunts on Trump. Iraq was a strategic choice as well, it cuts through the middle of the entire region over there. The terrorist we were hunting, were primarily confined to traveling across land.

I don't believe Trump will get thrown out of office. They haven't voted yet, to impeach yet, which means they haven't got a strong case to begin with, the inquiry is to dig up some actual dirt to use in the impeachment (trial). If the phone call alone was a strong case, and actual crime, they would have put it to a vote, and gone straight to trial. It's wishful thinking, politics, but nothing they can prosecute. The inquiry is all they have justification for, at this point, a fishing expedition, like the Russian meddling probe. You see that it'll take months, before impeachment actually comes up for a vote, which should be before the primaries, but not too soon either.

Adam Shiffty has already cast the first net, and requesting all of Trumps phone calls, to several other countries, outside of just the Ukraine. Instead of focusing on the charges made, he's going to keep grabbing any and all information he can squeeze, for anything useful in his political agenda. Just like the Russia probe. More people around Trump will be destroyed, or thrown in prison, for relatively minor offenses, not related to the investigation. It's his tactic to weaken his enemy, the goal has always been to take out the president.



Harvey, your just wanting someone to go after. You do need to troll someone. You've said too many times that you don't pay attention to the details. If the Republican party impeaches Trump, then you won't be able to justify your poor attitude by saying what someone else did justifies it.
You and damann can post whatever you want and in 10 years both of you will be posting the same crap.
29-09-2019 19:34
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote: You and damann can post whatever you want and in 10 years both of you will be posting the same crap.

That's because the unanimous UN resolution approving the invasion won't be changing, nor will history be changing. Your attempts to revise history probably won't change either.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-09-2019 20:14
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
I didn't think Trump needed help finding, dirt on Clinton, more than enough here. He probably didn't even consider Joe, as a candidate, while on the phone either. Joe is no threat in the election, why ask for foreign help? It was just a phone call, and restarting an investigation that got put to an abrupt, and questionable end. Had Joe not been running for president, would the call have been, just a normal call? Does running for president excuse past transgressions?

I really don't think this inquiry is going to be done in a similar way as the Russian investigation. It'll be done mostly publicly, and a lot is going to be brought out. Stuff the democrats are going to regret. They might not have broken laws, but they did get to stuff a lot cash in their pockets.


The war in Iraq was illegal. The UN found nothing and neither did we. G. W. Bush misled congress because he wanted us in a war.
And I know you won't care about any of this because it's about you. It's sad that you ignored things like this where our president made their friends company even richer. And Harvey, don't be surprised if the Republican party impeaches Trump. That would give them political leverage and get rid of someone they don't like.
If they do, what will you say? That the Republican party was wrong?
https://www.ft.com/content/7f435f04-8c05-11e2-b001-00144feabdc0
https://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/haliburton.html

As long as none of what I just posted doesn't matter to you, those people got the mother of free rides which lead to the Great Recession of 2008.
Interesting what was said in 2016. What if the GOP wants to get back it's party from Trump? Et tu Brutus?
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/donald-trump-republican-party/gop-future


Iraq war wasn't illegal, Saddam stated clearly, many times, that he did posses weapons of mass destruction. He had the money, and potential to have them. Weapons of mass destruction, aren't necessarily nuclear either. But, then again, Saddam lied and boasted about a lot of stuff, and also committed a lot of death and destruction, on his own people. The war was every bit as 'legal' as these witch hunts on Trump. Iraq was a strategic choice as well, it cuts through the middle of the entire region over there. The terrorist we were hunting, were primarily confined to traveling across land.

I don't believe Trump will get thrown out of office. They haven't voted yet, to impeach yet, which means they haven't got a strong case to begin with, the inquiry is to dig up some actual dirt to use in the impeachment (trial). If the phone call alone was a strong case, and actual crime, they would have put it to a vote, and gone straight to trial. It's wishful thinking, politics, but nothing they can prosecute. The inquiry is all they have justification for, at this point, a fishing expedition, like the Russian meddling probe. You see that it'll take months, before impeachment actually comes up for a vote, which should be before the primaries, but not too soon either.

Adam Shiffty has already cast the first net, and requesting all of Trumps phone calls, to several other countries, outside of just the Ukraine. Instead of focusing on the charges made, he's going to keep grabbing any and all information he can squeeze, for anything useful in his political agenda. Just like the Russia probe. More people around Trump will be destroyed, or thrown in prison, for relatively minor offenses, not related to the investigation. It's his tactic to weaken his enemy, the goal has always been to take out the president.



Harvey, your just wanting someone to go after. You do need to troll someone. You've said too many times that you don't pay attention to the details. If the Republican party impeaches Trump, then you won't be able to justify your poor attitude by saying what someone else did justifies it.
You and damann can post whatever you want and in 10 years both of you will be posting the same crap.


I thought the same way about the Russian investigation, nothing there. And what came of it? Impeachment? Nope, just more investigations, to keep digging for something, anything. It'll go about the same with UkraineGate, a phone call, and a questionable complaint, is only justification to keep digging, and hope to find a gem.

So, do you believe the democrats are all saints, and can never do no wrong? That they would never conspire to cover anything up? Do you believe the democrats aren't using all these investigations for political gain, and not for any consideration for law? I guess 'egg' is easy enough to clean off their faces, and they never learn...
29-09-2019 20:47
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
I didn't think Trump needed help finding, dirt on Clinton, more than enough here. He probably didn't even consider Joe, as a candidate, while on the phone either. Joe is no threat in the election, why ask for foreign help? It was just a phone call, and restarting an investigation that got put to an abrupt, and questionable end. Had Joe not been running for president, would the call have been, just a normal call? Does running for president excuse past transgressions?

I really don't think this inquiry is going to be done in a similar way as the Russian investigation. It'll be done mostly publicly, and a lot is going to be brought out. Stuff the democrats are going to regret. They might not have broken laws, but they did get to stuff a lot cash in their pockets.


The war in Iraq was illegal. The UN found nothing and neither did we. G. W. Bush misled congress because he wanted us in a war.
And I know you won't care about any of this because it's about you. It's sad that you ignored things like this where our president made their friends company even richer. And Harvey, don't be surprised if the Republican party impeaches Trump. That would give them political leverage and get rid of someone they don't like.
If they do, what will you say? That the Republican party was wrong?
https://www.ft.com/content/7f435f04-8c05-11e2-b001-00144feabdc0
https://www.cs.cornell.edu/gries/howbushoperates/haliburton.html

As long as none of what I just posted doesn't matter to you, those people got the mother of free rides which lead to the Great Recession of 2008.
Interesting what was said in 2016. What if the GOP wants to get back it's party from Trump? Et tu Brutus?
https://www.nbcnews.com/specials/donald-trump-republican-party/gop-future


Iraq war wasn't illegal, Saddam stated clearly, many times, that he did posses weapons of mass destruction. He had the money, and potential to have them. Weapons of mass destruction, aren't necessarily nuclear either. But, then again, Saddam lied and boasted about a lot of stuff, and also committed a lot of death and destruction, on his own people. The war was every bit as 'legal' as these witch hunts on Trump. Iraq was a strategic choice as well, it cuts through the middle of the entire region over there. The terrorist we were hunting, were primarily confined to traveling across land.

I don't believe Trump will get thrown out of office. They haven't voted yet, to impeach yet, which means they haven't got a strong case to begin with, the inquiry is to dig up some actual dirt to use in the impeachment (trial). If the phone call alone was a strong case, and actual crime, they would have put it to a vote, and gone straight to trial. It's wishful thinking, politics, but nothing they can prosecute. The inquiry is all they have justification for, at this point, a fishing expedition, like the Russian meddling probe. You see that it'll take months, before impeachment actually comes up for a vote, which should be before the primaries, but not too soon either.

Adam Shiffty has already cast the first net, and requesting all of Trumps phone calls, to several other countries, outside of just the Ukraine. Instead of focusing on the charges made, he's going to keep grabbing any and all information he can squeeze, for anything useful in his political agenda. Just like the Russia probe. More people around Trump will be destroyed, or thrown in prison, for relatively minor offenses, not related to the investigation. It's his tactic to weaken his enemy, the goal has always been to take out the president.



Harvey, your just wanting someone to go after. You do need to troll someone. You've said too many times that you don't pay attention to the details. If the Republican party impeaches Trump, then you won't be able to justify your poor attitude by saying what someone else did justifies it.
You and damann can post whatever you want and in 10 years both of you will be posting the same crap.


I thought the same way about the Russian investigation, nothing there. And what came of it? Impeachment? Nope, just more investigations, to keep digging for something, anything. It'll go about the same with UkraineGate, a phone call, and a questionable complaint, is only justification to keep digging, and hope to find a gem.

So, do you believe the democrats are all saints, and can never do no wrong? That they would never conspire to cover anything up? Do you believe the democrats aren't using all these investigations for political gain, and not for any consideration for law? I guess 'egg' is easy enough to clean off their faces, and they never learn...


See? You need to be going after someone. If Trump is impeached, it's because the Republican controlled senate will be voting for it.
Neither former President Bush voted for him. They wrote about it in their book.
What if Republicans like Pence better? This would be their opportunity to do so. Trump has acknowledged that his own party doesn't like him. That's what he should be concerned about, his standing in his own party.
Learn about impeachment. Only the senate can impeach a sitting president. The Republicans in the senate might ultimately control his fate. That's politics.

edited to add: a small detail for you. The transcript from the phone call was stored on a key word security system that national security is kept on. Only people close to Trump have access to it.
Who were the people in Trump's inner circle who leaked information about the phone call. It said that many people who had possibly the highest security clearance possible leaked the information.
This suggests that not many people around Trump are loyal to him. Anyway that's something to think about.
Trump's National Security Advisor said that he believes that the whistle blower acted in good faith.
The media outlet doesn't matter. Look at what Trump's National Security Advisor testified to congress about. Trump's own man.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/whistleblower-complaint-impeachment-inquiry/h_32bec9d1d43baa3b0ebb794c51d175ce

Trump's own people are stoking the fire.
Edited on 29-09-2019 21:00
29-09-2019 21:01
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote:Only the senate can impeach a sitting president.

Only the House can impeach a sitting President.
Only a sitting President can be impeached by the House.

The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.


Only the Senate can convict a sitting President and remove him.

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-09-2019 21:30
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
James, you've obviously haven't read the complaint yourself, and only relying on other people's interpretation of the facts. The media sensationalize a lot of stuff, to keep you coming back for more. It's a creative interpretation, fantasy, and usually forgive, do to the lack of information available. As long as the keep it to opinion, nothing ever comes of it. They can pretty much write anything they like, doesn't have to be accurate.

The CIA agent, yeah, I guess people around him aren't very loyal to him either, who wrote the complaint, clearly, and repeatedly makes clear that he didn't personally witness, or observe any of it. It's all based on conversation he had, or heard. It's yet to be established, if any of those people, had first hand knowledge, or just repeating what they were told, or heard other say.

It still seems kind of odd, that there would be a room full of people taking notes, for every presidential phone call, when recording it, would serve the same purpose, and be more accurate and complete. Does Trump's closest staff members go to the note taking room, every time he picks up the phone? I would think note takers are very high level employees, probably assigned specifically to the task, degree of loyalty unknown.

I'm not sure what all goes on in the White House, but this is the first ime I've heard about a CIA agent assigned there, to spy...
29-09-2019 21:35
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James, you've obviously haven't read the complaint yourself, and only relying on other people's interpretation of the facts. The media sensationalize a lot of stuff, to keep you coming back for more. It's a creative interpretation, fantasy, and usually forgive, do to the lack of information available. As long as the keep it to opinion, nothing ever comes of it. They can pretty much write anything they like, doesn't have to be accurate.

The CIA agent, yeah, I guess people around him aren't very loyal to him either, who wrote the complaint, clearly, and repeatedly makes clear that he didn't personally witness, or observe any of it. It's all based on conversation he had, or heard. It's yet to be established, if any of those people, had first hand knowledge, or just repeating what they were told, or heard other say.

It still seems kind of odd, that there would be a room full of people taking notes, for every presidential phone call, when recording it, would serve the same purpose, and be more accurate and complete. Does Trump's closest staff members go to the note taking room, every time he picks up the phone? I would think note takers are very high level employees, probably assigned specifically to the task, degree of loyalty unknown.

I'm not sure what all goes on in the White House, but this is the first ime I've heard about a CIA agent assigned there, to spy...


What about what Trump's own appointee testified to congress about. What were "HIS" words. You simply don't care.
What I know is that if Trump gets impeached you can't blame the Democrats but will. You're a great guy and you are an avid Trump supporter because he's a great guy as well. Yet if his own party is out to have him removed from office because they prefer Pence, where does that leave you?
Myself, I happen to agree with President Trump's National Security Advisor. Trump appointed him so he is Trump's man.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/08/08/trump-picks-joseph-maguire-acting-director-national-intelligence/1960848001/
Edited on 29-09-2019 21:43
29-09-2019 22:29
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote: What I know is that if Trump gets impeached you can't blame the Democrats but will.

Only the (Democrat-controlled) House can impeach. If the (Democrat-controlled) House votes to impeach only the Democrats controlling the House will be responsible.

James___ wrote: You're a great guy and you are an avid Trump supporter because he's a great guy as well. Yet if his own party is out to have him removed from office because they prefer Pence, where does that leave you?

It leaves the (Republican-controlled) Senate helpless to do anything until the (Democrat-controlled) House impeaches.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-09-2019 23:04
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Would you believe it, if you heard it from groper-Joe's mouth?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY
IBdaMann wrote:so tmiddles ignores HarveyH55's posts

Oops! I am guilty as charged. Sorry Harvery for not noticing your post I missed it. It is obviously a fact that Joe Biden bragged about forcing the Ukraine to fire the prosecutor Trump mentioned in his call.

Conveniently I have a link to him in my transcript: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/trump-called-this-ex-ukrainian-prosecutor-very-good-but-he-resigned-in-disgrace/2019/09/25/d1410aa2-dfb1-11e9-be7f-4cc85017c36f_story.html

Oddly enough Biden claims they fired him but it says he resigned but obviously Biden was the one, by his own account, that got it done.

Thanks for finding the facts there Harvey. We need more of that on this board!


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
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