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Corruption, which party is the greater problem?



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02-10-2019 01:10
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Yeah, democrats find the truth, deplorable. Someone should make a montage of all the video, of top democrats and how they interpreted the words of that phone call. There were no threats made, directly, or implied. No money was discussed. Trump's reelection never came up either.

How come they never raised a stink, when he encouraged Mexico, to help secure the border? There were direct threats of cutting off aid, if they didn't.

I'm pretty sure most every president has had many casual calls with foreign leaders, and asked favors, or were asked to do a favor. Foreign leaders wouldn't have much to talk about, if they couldn't ask each other for assistance, without getting approval from their underlings. They are leaders, right? Our president needs congressional approval for most things he might promise, like money, and how much. Has to be careful of what he promises, as he might not be able to deliver.

From the phone call, Trump did want to get his people involved, and the Ukraine president, didn't seem real receptive, maybe a little insulted. Understandable, since it implied the Ukraine couldn't do the job as well as we could, or Trump didn't trust him, and implied they need a babysitter, to make sure it gets done, and done right. Trump tried to assure him that they could provide useful documents to help in the investigation. The Bidens were a way in the door, but he really wanted Mueller Report information.

How did the House democrats get a sneak-peak of the phone call transcripts, if the White House lock it down tight, on the most secure server known to man? Nancy announced the impeachment inquiry, before Trump agreed to release the transcript, and had several nasty comments, as always. Either the White House didn't secure the transcripts, or somebody had the key to the magic filing cabinet, that shouldn't. Still, kind of odd a CIA agent assigned to the White House, is the one to blow the whistle. Shouldn't he have just reported his findings to the boss (Nancy?). A whistle-blower is granted several protections and guaranties, which makes them a special kind of witness, with full immunity. The complaint really didn't have much first-hand accounts of anything, just things he was told, or heard. Basically, he has a full and complete licence to make any statement he wants, name who ever he wants. Those individuals don't get any protection, compelled to comply, or be considered lying. Some will get tricked into giving opinions, not based on facts known to them, which could later be used as proof they lied.
02-10-2019 01:27
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
Harvey, Trump asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival. You find nothing wrong with that. Then Biden did nothing wrong. It is known that Trump withheld $400 million in military aid before he made that phone call. That could be considered as coercion.
Yet you justify what Republicans do. It is about you as you say. Why you could only complain about something while doing nothing about it. Just too lazy to send an email but can post on and on about something.

And Harvey, I am glad that you find nothing wrong with the president asking a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival over something that happened over 10 years ago.
You found that to be a problem with the William Bush tapes of Trump. You need to be consistent and you are. You and the people that you support can do no wrong.
Edited on 02-10-2019 01:56
02-10-2019 02:59
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
James___ wrote:
Harvey, Trump asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

No, he didn't. Go look at the transcript again.
James___ wrote:
You find nothing wrong with that.

Go look at the transcript again.
James___ wrote:
Then Biden did nothing wrong.

If Biden's boast is true, he did something wrong. He blackmailed the Ukrainian government to protect his kid.
James___ wrote:
It is known that Trump withheld $400 million in military aid before he made that phone call. That could be considered as coercion.

Nope. Nothing was withheld at the time, nor was any threat of such made.
James___ wrote:
Yet you justify what Republicans do. It is about you as you say. Why you could only complain about something while doing nothing about it. Just too lazy to send an email but can post on and on about something.

And Harvey, I am glad that you find nothing wrong with the president asking a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival over something that happened over 10 years ago.

You found that to be a problem with the William Bush tapes of Trump. You need to be consistent and you are. You and the people that you support can do no wrong.

You really need to stop paying attention to the fake news.


The Parrot Killer
02-10-2019 03:18
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Harvey, Trump asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

No, he didn't. Go look at the transcript again.
James___ wrote:
You find nothing wrong with that.

Go look at the transcript again.
James___ wrote:
Then Biden did nothing wrong.

If Biden's boast is true, he did something wrong. He blackmailed the Ukrainian government to protect his kid.
James___ wrote:
It is known that Trump withheld $400 million in military aid before he made that phone call. That could be considered as coercion.

Nope. Nothing was withheld at the time, nor was any threat of such made.
James___ wrote:
Yet you justify what Republicans do. It is about you as you say. Why you could only complain about something while doing nothing about it. Just too lazy to send an email but can post on and on about something.

And Harvey, I am glad that you find nothing wrong with the president asking a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival over something that happened over 10 years ago.

You found that to be a problem with the William Bush tapes of Trump. You need to be consistent and you are. You and the people that you support can do no wrong.

You really need to stop paying attention to the fake news.


What's interesting is that this is actually an anarchist forum.
It's strange though that the US is the Greatest country in the world and yet it's people don't care for any morality and like attacking each other. Kind of makes Trump like Caligula and the US like Ancient Rome.
Enjoy!!!
02-10-2019 03:54
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
James___ wrote:
Harvey, Trump asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival. You find nothing wrong with that. Then Biden did nothing wrong. It is known that Trump withheld $400 million in military aid before he made that phone call. That could be considered as coercion.
Yet you justify what Republicans do. It is about you as you say. Why you could only complain about something while doing nothing about it. Just too lazy to send an email but can post on and on about something.

And Harvey, I am glad that you find nothing wrong with the president asking a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival over something that happened over 10 years ago.
You found that to be a problem with the William Bush tapes of Trump. You need to be consistent and you are. You and the people that you support can do no wrong.


You consider Joe Biden a rival, nobody else does. He's a candidate, but no hope in hell to win the primary. Joe Biden's rivals, are other democrats, at this point in the campaign. Running for president, doesn't give you immunity from past transgressions. There is corruption in the Ukraine, there is corruption on Capital Hill. Both countries have new leaders, wanting to end some of the corruption, in both countries.

The new Ukraine president, didn't know about the almost $400 million in aid, until after the call. Not sure when Trump new that money had been a proved, and never sent, by the Obama administration. It's tough finding straight information, everything is flooded with rants of leftist-lunatics, regurgitating, almost word-for-word, the same false, and misleading crap. Pretty, much, thousands repeating the same garbage you feed on, and can't stomach either, since you feel a need to purge here. I had a list of specific points I wanted to verify, from what was on the radio this morning, which is acceptably accurate, but I like to find another source, to validate. Came up with nothing, every link that look promising, had similar rants about the transcript, and compliant, and the fantasy motives. I have the released transcript and complaint, read both thoroughly, the facts. Everything claimed to be in there, that isn't, is false. That sort of makes the rest of the article false, or unreliable. Just because I hear, or read something, doesn't automatically make it gospel, like in your religion. Verification, isn't just finding the same story, regurgitated, I need to find additional information, to the source I originally heard the story.

What happened 10 years ago? Biden got the dude fired in 2016, 3 years ago. Hunter got his job over there in 2014. Are you implying that Biden was robbing Ukraine 10 years ago, but nobody suspected until he bragged about it last year?

Never said there was anything wrong with the locker room talk tape, other than how you democrats tried to make more of it, than it was. How many women step forward with groping complaints in 2016? Where are the photos and video? Joe Biden provide quite the media show, with his busy hands, and hair sniffing. Still can't keep his hands to himself.
02-10-2019 04:16
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
Harvey, Trump asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival. You find nothing wrong with that. Then Biden did nothing wrong. It is known that Trump withheld $400 million in military aid before he made that phone call. That could be considered as coercion.
Yet you justify what Republicans do. It is about you as you say. Why you could only complain about something while doing nothing about it. Just too lazy to send an email but can post on and on about something.

And Harvey, I am glad that you find nothing wrong with the president asking a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival over something that happened over 10 years ago.
You found that to be a problem with the William Bush tapes of Trump. You need to be consistent and you are. You and the people that you support can do no wrong.


You consider Joe Biden a rival, nobody else does. He's a candidate, but no hope in hell to win the primary. Joe Biden's rivals, are other democrats, at this point in the campaign. Running for president, doesn't give you immunity from past transgressions. There is corruption in the Ukraine, there is corruption on Capital Hill. Both countries have new leaders, wanting to end some of the corruption, in both countries.

The new Ukraine president, didn't know about the almost $400 million in aid, until after the call. Not sure when Trump new that money had been a proved, and never sent, by the Obama administration. It's tough finding straight information, everything is flooded with rants of leftist-lunatics, regurgitating, almost word-for-word, the same false, and misleading crap. Pretty, much, thousands repeating the same garbage you feed on, and can't stomach either, since you feel a need to purge here. I had a list of specific points I wanted to verify, from what was on the radio this morning, which is acceptably accurate, but I like to find another source, to validate. Came up with nothing, every link that look promising, had similar rants about the transcript, and compliant, and the fantasy motives. I have the released transcript and complaint, read both thoroughly, the facts. Everything claimed to be in there, that isn't, is false. That sort of makes the rest of the article false, or unreliable. Just because I hear, or read something, doesn't automatically make it gospel, like in your religion. Verification, isn't just finding the same story, regurgitated, I need to find additional information, to the source I originally heard the story.

What happened 10 years ago? Biden got the dude fired in 2016, 3 years ago. Hunter got his job over there in 2014. Are you implying that Biden was robbing Ukraine 10 years ago, but nobody suspected until he bragged about it last year?

Never said there was anything wrong with the locker room talk tape, other than how you democrats tried to make more of it, than it was. How many women step forward with groping complaints in 2016? Where are the photos and video? Joe Biden provide quite the media show, with his busy hands, and hair sniffing. Still can't keep his hands to himself.


Yaawwnnn, zzzzzzzz
03-10-2019 07:07
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
IBdaMann wrote:
So you confirm that you find people like the Boston Bomber, Omar Mateen and Frederick Coe to be preferable to Trump.
They are less of a threat. Osama Bin Laden is also less of a threat (being dead). I'm being practical in my concern.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:Thanks to you of course.

Is this because I am a deplorable?

You are a soldier in his fight to destroy truth, meaning and thought. You work hard at it every day on here. "Fake News", Science can never be trusted, it's all nonsense and nothing qualifies.

It's Trumps destruction of logic, coherent thought and real debate that is the most dangerous component of his ascension.


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
03-10-2019 07:07
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
HarveyH55 wrote:...how they interpreted the words of that phone call. There were no threats made, directly, or implied. No money was discussed.
Doesn't actually doing something "Trump" threatening to do it? Trump DID hold back $250,000,000 in funding. Not every part of a criminal act needs to be confined to a phone call.

HarveyH55 wrote:
How come they never raised a stink, when he encouraged Mexico, to help secure the border? There were direct threats of cutting off aid, if they didn't.
Because he wasn't doing that for person gain in attacking a political opponent.

Question: Do you consider dirt on Biden to be a thing of value to Trump?

HarveyH55 wrote:I'm pretty sure most every president has had many casual calls with foreign leaders, and asked favors, or were asked to do a favor.
Nothing wrong with that if it's not a favor of involvement in an election for their benefit. (or for personal gain in general)

HarveyH55 wrote:...The Bidens were a way in the door, but he really wanted Mueller Report information...
Sounded to me like he wanted dirt on Biden being "horrible". But both objectives are for his personal benefit as a politician. Some have said "it's his job"! No it's not. Is everything the presidents job? No. A government official should not be directly involved in their own investigation. We have people for that.

HarveyH55 wrote:...whistle-blower...has a full and complete licence to make any statement he wants, ...
Doesn't matter now the white house, credit to them, released the call immediately. The whistle-blower pointed the way to further investigation. That's all the impeachment inquiry is, further investigation. It's not an impeachment.

HarveyH55 wrote:
You consider Joe Biden a rival, nobody else does. He's a candidate, but no hope in hell to win the primary.

That is absurd Harvey. https://www.oddsshark.com/politics/democratic-nominee-odds Of course he's a political rival.

HarveyH55 wrote:Running for president, doesn't give you immunity from past transgressions.
If you think it should be legal for a politician to use the power of their office to attack political rivals just say that. If you think they can willfully involve foreign governments as well say that. THAT is the issue at hand. If you think it's OK and that US law should be changed to allow it then let's get that out of the way.

HarveyH55 wrote:How many women step forward with groping complaints in 2016?
It's a long list: https://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410

I believe you're implying no one complained before he was running for president?
"Harth filed a lawsuit in 1997 alleging that Trump groped her and sexually harassed her," I could dig more but yeah, it's not all just after 2016.

If you think going public about being victimized is fun you should think about it harder.



"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
Edited on 03-10-2019 07:25
03-10-2019 07:10
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Harvey, Trump asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

No, he didn't. Go look at the transcript again.

The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

So he wasn't asking that Biden be investigated?
Is Biden a political rival?
Is the Ukraine a foreign government?
Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
It is known that Trump withheld $400 million in military aid before he made that phone call. That could be considered as coercion.

Nope. Nothing was withheld at the time, nor was any threat of such made.
Why does it need to happen "at the time"? And you're right he didn't threaten to do it he did it. He ACTUALLY did it. Much better and more compelling than a threat to do it. (I wonder what the daily interest is on 400M? I mean even at a low interest rate).


"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
Edited on 03-10-2019 07:12
03-10-2019 17:42
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
tmiddles posted:

The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

So he wasn't asking that Biden be investigated?
Is Biden a political rival?
Is the Ukraine a foreign government?
Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Did Biden brag about his blatant corruption? Yes. Check.

Should it therefore be investigated? Yes. Check.

Does the US Justice Dept. need Zelenskyy's (Ukraine's) permission to conduct that investigation in Ukraine? Yes. Check.

Is Trump the one who needs to make that phone call? Yes. Check.


... everything seems in order. What now?


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
03-10-2019 19:46
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles posted:

The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

So he wasn't asking that Biden be investigated?
Is Biden a political rival?
Is the Ukraine a foreign government?
Yes, Yes, and Yes.

Did Biden brag about his blatant corruption? Yes. Check.

Should it therefore be investigated? Yes. Check.

Does the US Justice Dept. need Zelenskyy's (Ukraine's) permission to conduct that investigation in Ukraine? Yes. Check.

Is Trump the one who needs to make that phone call? Yes. Check.


... everything seems in order. What now?


.


Not to mention, both, ours, and the Ukraine didn't do much investigating at the time, an election year, remember. It wouldn't look too good for the democrats, considering Hillary was sporting a lot of dirt, that didn't wash off. The missing Emails, concerning Benghazi, really should have been investigated much closer, hope Trump gets into that too. If I was related to any of those 4 diplomats, who didn't die from 'smoke inhalation', as claimed, I would be pissed. Those four, were beaten, tortured, and murdered, and video posted on the internet. Ambassador Stevens made a lot of requests for additional security, expressing his concerns about unrest in the area. Certainly wasn't protesters, who got out of hand.

The democrats used Russian meddling (even a crime?), as basis for a political attack, and 2+ year investigation/continuous attack about Trump. Entirely probable for campaign purposes, exactly what they are accusing Trump of doing right now. Think he's getting close, their scared. I don't think the House democrats had the phone transcript, just the complaint, which seem to be what they used, without looking into first. Don't think the expected Trump to give the both, so quick and easy.

Biden should have been investigated in 2016. Most definitely in 2018, when he bragged on camera. The dirt was already public, just the democrats chose to keep it under the rug. It was no secret, needing dug up.

Who investigates, the investigators? The FBI, CIA, and House democrats, still have many of the same players, who should have looked into these things, but didn't give them more than the bare minimal attention.

It kind of looks like family of people in office, with presidential access, can get high paying jobs, most anywhere in the world. Those that take advantage of that potential, have a conflict of interest, at the very least. Hunter has had at least two such jobs. Pretty sure there are a lot of wealthy democrats, who didn't get a lot of that money domestically. It be interesting to see how many of our law makers, worked overseas, as a favor, for their parents, who were also law makers, before them...
04-10-2019 01:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Harvey, Trump asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

No, he didn't. Go look at the transcript again.
James___ wrote:
You find nothing wrong with that.

Go look at the transcript again.
James___ wrote:
Then Biden did nothing wrong.

If Biden's boast is true, he did something wrong. He blackmailed the Ukrainian government to protect his kid.
James___ wrote:
It is known that Trump withheld $400 million in military aid before he made that phone call. That could be considered as coercion.

Nope. Nothing was withheld at the time, nor was any threat of such made.
James___ wrote:
Yet you justify what Republicans do. It is about you as you say. Why you could only complain about something while doing nothing about it. Just too lazy to send an email but can post on and on about something.

And Harvey, I am glad that you find nothing wrong with the president asking a foreign country to dig up dirt on a political rival over something that happened over 10 years ago.

You found that to be a problem with the William Bush tapes of Trump. You need to be consistent and you are. You and the people that you support can do no wrong.

You really need to stop paying attention to the fake news.


What's interesting is that this is actually an anarchist forum.
It's strange though that the US is the Greatest country in the world and yet it's people don't care for any morality and like attacking each other. Kind of makes Trump like Caligula and the US like Ancient Rome.
Enjoy!!!


Nope. Just a forum. There are anarchists here, socialists here, republicans here, and democrats here.

Which period of Rome are you referring to? The age of Caesar and other such leaders? That's not anarchism, that's a dictatorship.

The U.S. is not a dictatorship. It is not a democracy. It is organized as a federated republic. It has constitutions.


The Parrot Killer
04-10-2019 01:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
So you confirm that you find people like the Boston Bomber, Omar Mateen and Frederick Coe to be preferable to Trump.
They are less of a threat. Osama Bin Laden is also less of a threat (being dead). I'm being practical in my concern.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:Thanks to you of course.

Is this because I am a deplorable?

You are a soldier in his fight to destroy truth, meaning and thought. You work hard at it every day on here. "Fake News", Science can never be trusted, it's all nonsense and nothing qualifies.

It's Trumps destruction of logic, coherent thought and real debate that is the most dangerous component of his ascension.

RDCF, and the usual Trump bashing.

Lame.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 04-10-2019 01:12
04-10-2019 01:05
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...how they interpreted the words of that phone call. There were no threats made, directly, or implied. No money was discussed.
Doesn't actually doing something "Trump" threatening to do it? Trump DID hold back $250,000,000 in funding. Not every part of a criminal act needs to be confined to a phone call.

HarveyH55 wrote:
How come they never raised a stink, when he encouraged Mexico, to help secure the border? There were direct threats of cutting off aid, if they didn't.
Because he wasn't doing that for person gain in attacking a political opponent.

Question: Do you consider dirt on Biden to be a thing of value to Trump?

HarveyH55 wrote:I'm pretty sure most every president has had many casual calls with foreign leaders, and asked favors, or were asked to do a favor.
Nothing wrong with that if it's not a favor of involvement in an election for their benefit. (or for personal gain in general)

HarveyH55 wrote:...The Bidens were a way in the door, but he really wanted Mueller Report information...
Sounded to me like he wanted dirt on Biden being "horrible". But both objectives are for his personal benefit as a politician. Some have said "it's his job"! No it's not. Is everything the presidents job? No. A government official should not be directly involved in their own investigation. We have people for that.

HarveyH55 wrote:...whistle-blower...has a full and complete licence to make any statement he wants, ...
Doesn't matter now the white house, credit to them, released the call immediately. The whistle-blower pointed the way to further investigation. That's all the impeachment inquiry is, further investigation. It's not an impeachment.

HarveyH55 wrote:
You consider Joe Biden a rival, nobody else does. He's a candidate, but no hope in hell to win the primary.

That is absurd Harvey. https://www.oddsshark.com/politics/democratic-nominee-odds Of course he's a political rival.

HarveyH55 wrote:Running for president, doesn't give you immunity from past transgressions.
If you think it should be legal for a politician to use the power of their office to attack political rivals just say that. If you think they can willfully involve foreign governments as well say that. THAT is the issue at hand. If you think it's OK and that US law should be changed to allow it then let's get that out of the way.

HarveyH55 wrote:How many women step forward with groping complaints in 2016?
It's a long list: https://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410

I believe you're implying no one complained before he was running for president?
"Harth filed a lawsuit in 1997 alleging that Trump groped her and sexually harassed her," I could dig more but yeah, it's not all just after 2016.

If you think going public about being victimized is fun you should think about it harder.



RDCF, and the usual Trump bashing.


The Parrot Killer
04-10-2019 01:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Harvey, Trump asked a foreign government to investigate his political rival.

No, he didn't. Go look at the transcript again.

The other thing, There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it... It sounds horrible to me.

So he wasn't asking that Biden be investigated?

No. He was simply asking if there was anything to Biden's statements.
tmiddles wrote:
Is Biden a political rival?

No. The Democratic primaries and caucuses haven't yet taken place.
tmiddles wrote:
Is the Ukraine a foreign government?

Yes. Trump is allowed to talk to foreign government, you know.
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
It is known that Trump withheld $400 million in military aid before he made that phone call. That could be considered as coercion.

Nope. Nothing was withheld at the time, nor was any threat of such made.
Why does it need to happen "at the time"?

Because that's when the so-called 'threat' was made.
tmiddles wrote:
And you're right he didn't threaten to do it he did it.

Nope. Nothing was being withheld at the time of the phone call.
tmiddles wrote:
He ACTUALLY did it.

Nope.
tmiddles wrote:
Much better and more compelling than a threat to do it.

He did neither.

RDCF.


The Parrot Killer
04-10-2019 02:41
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Just out of curiosity... Why would the Ukraine president lie about being threatened, or his aid money withheld? If had been, and said so, he'd be a hero (for the democrats), and still get his aid money. He'd have a reputation as honest, and strong against corruption, which would likely get him more generous aid from other countries. He just got elected earlier this year, and wasn't a career politician. Trump is up for re-election, and has had rough time with the democrats, not guaranteed to win a second term (we know better). It's too unlikely the Ukraine president would lie, more to lose, than a little aid money. Really not sure why the phone call would be taken for anything more than it was in the transcript, a friendly exchange, between world leaders. Neither of them held public office, before getting elected president, lot of common ground there. Do the democrats really have so much trouble believing honest people really exist? They seem to only see scandal and corruption, either persecuting others (for not sharing the spoils), or covering up for those that publicly stumble a little.

Biden dirt wasn't buried, he dug it up, and proudly displayed it last year, bragging about it, very publicly, on camera. Hunter Biden worked for a gas company, which was suppose to be investigated for theft of public funds, and money laundering. That investigation was never completed, or anything ever released about what was actually investigate, if it ever got started, before the Biden magic. Can't find anything, if you never looked in the first place. Guess they weren't lying about not finding any corruption, just about actually looking into it.

Why hasn't the house voted on the inquiry yet? They seem confident on camera, the have enough to justify an investigation. The articles of impeachment they send to the senate, is a separate vote. Why the indecision? The are requesting witnesses and documents, but voluntary, since they haven't voted yet. The threat of obstruction for none compliance doesn't seem quite right to me, since it isn't an officially impeachment inquiry, until the vote to move forward. Is Nancy worried, she doesn't actually have the votes yet, and needs to dig up some dirt on Trump, that will stick on the chamber walls?
04-10-2019 10:58
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
IBdaMann wrote:
Did Biden brag about his blatant corruption? Yes. Check.
What was the crime Biden or his son committed? If dismissing the prosecutor prevented prosecution of some crime what was it?

Do you agree with Trump that Viktor Shokin was "a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. "

"Trump has claimed that Joe Biden in 2015 pressured the Ukrainian government to fire Shokin because he was investigating Burisma.

But the investigation had already been set aside when Biden acted. Yuri Lutsenko, a former Ukrainian prosecutor general who succeeded the fired prosecutor, told Bloomberg News that there was no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe or Hunter Biden."

So yeah nothing to that angle.

And where do you get this?:
IBdaMann wrote:
US Justice Dept. need Zelenskyy's (Ukraine's) permission to conduct that investigation in Ukraine? Yes. Check.
Is Trump the one who needs to make that phone call? Yes. Check.
.

Have you ever heard of a conflict of interest before? The president needs to handle an investigation of a political opponent directly?

Also where is the perceived need for this investigation coming from?

I know you'll never put anything on the table but I'll ask: What would an abuse of power look like? If he had Biden audited by the IRS? If he tapped his phones? What?
04-10-2019 11:03
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Just out of curiosity... Why would the Ukraine president lie about being threatened, or his aid money withheld?


Because he doesn't want to piss off the guy who already delayed hundreds of millions in aid.

And it doesn't matter what he says now. It's a fact Trump held back the money.
04-10-2019 13:08
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Just out of curiosity... Why would the Ukraine president lie about being threatened, or his aid money withheld?


Because he doesn't want to piss off the guy who already delayed hundreds of millions in aid.

And it doesn't matter what he says now. It's a fact Trump held back the money.


The President or Vice Presidential is expected to withhold federal aid for reasons benefiting the United States, as in this case, not to benefit a family member, as in Biden's case.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
04-10-2019 20:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Did Biden brag about his blatant corruption? Yes. Check.
What was the crime Biden or his son committed? If dismissing the prosecutor prevented prosecution of some crime what was it?

Do you agree with Trump that Viktor Shokin was "a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. "

"Trump has claimed that Joe Biden in 2015 pressured the Ukrainian government to fire Shokin because he was investigating Burisma.

But the investigation had already been set aside when Biden acted. Yuri Lutsenko, a former Ukrainian prosecutor general who succeeded the fired prosecutor, told Bloomberg News that there was no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe or Hunter Biden."

So yeah nothing to that angle.

And where do you get this?:
IBdaMann wrote:
US Justice Dept. need Zelenskyy's (Ukraine's) permission to conduct that investigation in Ukraine? Yes. Check.
Is Trump the one who needs to make that phone call? Yes. Check.
.

Have you ever heard of a conflict of interest before? The president needs to handle an investigation of a political opponent directly?

Also where is the perceived need for this investigation coming from?

I know you'll never put anything on the table but I'll ask: What would an abuse of power look like? If he had Biden audited by the IRS? If he tapped his phones? What?


Biden himself is the reason for all of it. You obviously don't think there's something fishy about his son the crackhead getting discharged dishonorably from the navy show up in the Ukraine on the board of directors of a oil company making $50,000 a MONTH?? The Ukrainian government was already investigating this company. You don't think there's something fishy about Biden using his position in government to threaten to withhold money from the Ukrainian government unless they fired this particular prosecutor, as Biden himself boasted?

You don't think there's anything fishy about Biden's son winding up in China with another sweetheart deal like this and there's some billion yuan missing from the bank of China that went into THAT company that was never seen again by the time that company dissolved?

You don't think there's anything fishy about Biden?

You don't think the Ukrainian government and the Chinese government wouldn't be interested in this?? How many other governments around the world were affected by Biden's shady dealings.

Extortion for personal gain by a government official of the United States is illegal, dude.
Theft is a crime in each of these nations.
Accepting emoluments from a foreign national for personal gain is a crime in this country. Extortion and theft are emoluments. Did Biden or his family (including his son) benefit from the extortion that Biden himself boasted about? Was Obama involved, as Biden also boasted about?

IF Biden did as he boasted, he would have broken the law in both the United States and in Ukraine and China. Trump is simply asking each nation to see if there is anything to Biden's boasts. He is not holding any money over them at all if they choose not to look into it.

What other nations were affected?


The Parrot Killer
04-10-2019 20:47
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
I think Joe Biden used his position as VP, to get Hunter those jobs and deals. He either asked for them, or accepted them. Did he have to give up some favors in exchange? a billion dollars, would be a pretty good favor...

Pretty sure there are a lot of other dirty politicians involved, not just the party image tarnished. The seem very desperate to paint this as helping Trump's campaign, like Biden is a serious threat, but he hadn't really been getting a whole lot of party support, until now. Really don't think he is socialist enough, nor much completion for Trump. The other democrat candidates stomp him pretty good. I bet Joe is nervous, and will be doing his touching/grabbing thing more, again. It's not about political or personal gain, it's about finding out the truth, and cleaning up corruption. Our country needs it, and I'm sure several other countries would like some of the same.
05-10-2019 03:34
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Just out of curiosity... Why would the Ukraine president lie about being threatened, or his aid money withheld?


Because he doesn't want to piss off the guy who already delayed hundreds of millions in aid.

And it doesn't matter what he says now. It's a fact Trump held back the money.



It's funny in a way but between Biden and Trump, the world knows the US will bully smaller countries to get what it wants. After all, we dominate the Americas, why not the world?
And best of all, Americans like trying to dominate each other. Shades of Ancient Rome.
05-10-2019 04:34
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
IBdaMann wrote:
The President or Vice Presidential is expected to withhold federal aid for reasons benefiting the United States, as in this case, not to benefit a family member, as in Biden's case.
That Biden's son was given $1 from a company like that is totally fraudulent in my opinion. Totally lame. As is Hilary getting paid to make speeches to bankers, Ronald Reagan doing the same, Cheney working for Halliburton and the whole sick business I would agree qualifies as a "Swamp"(also country club membership dues being collected from lobbyists).

You either do or don't agree that a politician should be allowed to use the power of their office to personally go after a political opponent. After you answer that the question is does the law agree with you.

If you're going to waste time pretending Biden isn't a political opponent than what if he was? Would it be ok IF he was?

It all goes back to Trump saying in the debates that he'd throw Hilary in prison once he had the power to do so. Everyone freaked out because we aren't supposed to be that kind of kangaroo government. That's from someone like Maduro's play book, arresting a political opponent.

If a crime is committed we have agencies for that. If a government official has a conflict of interest they simply step back and let other professionals handle it.
05-10-2019 08:29
James___
★★★★☆
(1584)
In this video, someone takes the time to explain what went wrong with the US involvement in Ukraine and how it involved the Bidens. And this does not excuse what Trump did. Republicans should have known about this and if they did not, why?
If this guy is an American citizen, then if this information were to influence ANY election, he's an American, that's HIS right.

https://youtu.be/nHihyFsgJGc
Edited on 05-10-2019 08:30
05-10-2019 16:04
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
tmiddles wrote:You either do or don't agree that a politician should be allowed to use the power of their office to personally go after a political opponent. .

Incorrect.

The problem here is on your end. You believe that simply running for public office allows one to commit crimes with impunity because everyone in government is instantly a "political opponent" who is not allowed to "go after" him.

Your position is absurd.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-10-2019 16:17
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
James___ wrote: It's funny in a way but between Biden and Trump, the world knows the US will bully smaller countries to get what it wants

The U.S. does not bully other countries. You are speaking in the same manner as Marxists who refer to job offers as "exploitation."

Yes, other countries fugg with the U.S. all the time, and the U.S. is not required to take it sitting down, but the U.S. is not required to provide any aid to any country. We offer it, and sometimes we apply conditions.

If the U.S. had really wanted to dominate other countries, the U.S. would have about 87 states and another 36 territories.

James___ wrote:After all, we dominate the Americas, why not the world?

Nope. No domination there either. I take it you never noticed Venezuela, Brazil, Nicaragua, Bolivia and others giving us the finger on a regular basis.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-10-2019 17:26
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Aid money from the government isn't like welfare or a charity donation, well ideally... Their are almost always strings attached, and conditions. We would want to make sure that money goes where it's actually needed, and not in Hunter Biden's (just an example) pocket. All aid goes through congress, House first. They all get a heads up on where the money is going, and what it's intended to be used for, so why is it surprising, that 'consultants' would be sent in, or encouraged? This is also a good opening for some corruption, since these consultant will get paid for their services, plus they get to help steer where and how a lot of that aid money get spent. It makes money laundering fairly easy, since it's a government transferring money to buy supplies, equipment, or whatever the aid was intended for. The price, what is actually delivered, and where in the world the stuff was bought, is usually the work of the consultants. The corruption is pretty hard to spot, if you don't know where to look, and who to look at. Hunter was a lucky catch, basically thrown out of the navy for drugs in 2014, and a high paid executive and consultant 2015. He wouldn't have had the experience for the job, had to be more going on, more people involved. The investigation was forced-ended, for political reasons, very embarrassing for VP Biden, the democratic party in general, during an election year.

Insider trading is illegal, and this is pretty much the same thing. A person knowing where a large package of cash is about to get dropped, has time to position himself to access that cash, and profit. I don't believe the Bidens are the only ones. It's been going on for a long time, generations of politicians.

Ukraine wasn't the first time Trump held up aid money. Think we are going to find, he put's a hold on most every aid package, until he get's assurance that it's going to be used as planned. He stopped the central american aid, since most of the migrant flood, rushing our southern border, weren't getting any benefit. Trump stopped Mexico aid for a while, threw some tariffs on top, until Mexico got to work on their borders. Was holding aid money back in these cases, politically motivated, or actually done to help America? Of course, anything Trump does that is successful, and works, can be considered politically motivated, a successful president, that get's thing done, is popular, and going to appeal to voters.

What many people refuse to look at, is how much political interference, and abuse of power, the House democrats are guilty of since Trump was elected. They've used their office, to ensure that Trump doesn't succeed, or accomplish any of the things he planned during his campaign. All those things, that the American people agreed with, and voted for, wanted done. The Mueller investigation shouldn't have lasted, even a few months, with what little it was finding. The collusion was never there, and should have been obvious. The obstruction, was just another possible politically motivated tool. It kept the investigating going, the items used as obstruction, relatively minor, and they managed to dig up some dirt on a few of Trumps people, politically embarrassing, but not effective. Ruined a lot of lives, but didn't hurt Trump, just a distraction from doing actual work, the work for the American people, they are actually getting paid to do.
05-10-2019 18:56
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
HarveyH55 wrote: Their are almost always strings attached, and conditions.

Harvey, this is not true.

We give aid for natural disasters all the time without conditions.

We give aid to countries all the time to:

1) Ensure they remain our friend
2) Maintain a balance in the region

Yes, sometimes we place limitations, e.g. Colombia can't attack Ecuador with US- gifted helicopters without consulting the U.S. first.... but that's not the same thing.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-10-2019 20:33
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
IBdaMann wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote: Their are almost always strings attached, and conditions.

Harvey, this is not true.

We give aid for natural disasters all the time without conditions.

We give aid to countries all the time to:

1) Ensure they remain our friend
2) Maintain a balance in the region

Yes, sometimes we place limitations, e.g. Colombia can't attack Ecuador with US- gifted helicopters without consulting the U.S. first.... but that's not the same thing.


.


I hope you are wrong, since we hand out billions of dollars every year, often to countries known to mismanage, or steal. Ukraine has had a corruption problem, well tradition, for a very long time. Just hand over large sums of money, and pretty much do with it, whatever they feel is best, for themselves, or their people? Isn't like being charitable to a panhandler, believing your donation will be used for food, when it most likely will go towards drugs and alcohol. Regardless of the need, it's a lot of money, and if it isn't used as expected. the need will continue to exist, requiring more money. Hurricane Maria tore up Puerto Rico pretty bad a couple years ago, and we sent hundreds of millions in aid, to rebuild, and upgrade. Mostly, it's been used to patch and repair, very little upgrade or improvement in the process. Next big storm, will pretty much do the same as Maria.

If we gave millions in aid, to a country, with a hunger problem, and the president of that country buys a private jet, or new weapons for the military? Would that be money well spent, or help feed the starving people?

We should be have strings attached, to ensure the money is used as intended, and that we aren't just taking over the financial responsibility in that area, while their government gets to use their own resources for other things.

It's not just an international problem either, it happens a lot, here at home. Most every state, county, and city, has the funds for schools, road work, and many other things. They try to get federal money to pay for these things first, so they can spend their local tax money on fun, non-essential projects, like new parks, or decorative landscaping.
05-10-2019 20:45
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
James___ wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Just out of curiosity... Why would the Ukraine president lie about being threatened, or his aid money withheld?


Because he doesn't want to piss off the guy who already delayed hundreds of millions in aid.

And it doesn't matter what he says now. It's a fact Trump held back the money.



It's funny in a way but between Biden and Trump, the world knows the US will bully smaller countries to get what it wants. After all, we dominate the Americas, why not the world?
And best of all, Americans like trying to dominate each other. Shades of Ancient Rome.


Trump did not bully the Ukraine.


The Parrot Killer
05-10-2019 20:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
The President or Vice Presidential is expected to withhold federal aid for reasons benefiting the United States, as in this case, not to benefit a family member, as in Biden's case.
That Biden's son was given $1 from a company like that is totally fraudulent in my opinion. Totally lame. As is Hilary getting paid to make speeches to bankers, Ronald Reagan doing the same, Cheney working for Halliburton and the whole sick business I would agree qualifies as a "Swamp"(also country club membership dues being collected from lobbyists).

If a politician can make money doing speeches, who are YOU to stop them? That's not the swamp, dude.
tmiddles wrote:
You either do or don't agree that a politician should be allowed to use the power of their office to personally go after a political opponent.

Trump is required to uphold the law. If anyone, including Biden, has committed a crime, having Trump investigate it is not outside the authority of his office.
tmiddles wrote:
After you answer that the question is does the law agree with you.

Yes. See Article II of the Constitution of the United States.
tmiddles wrote:
If you're going to waste time pretending Biden isn't a political opponent than what if he was? Would it be ok IF he was?

Makes no difference.
tmiddles wrote:
It all goes back to Trump saying in the debates that he'd throw Hilary in prison once he had the power to do so. Everyone freaked out because we aren't supposed to be that kind of kangaroo government. That's from someone like Maduro's play book, arresting a political opponent.

No, it's prosecuting a crime. Hillary broke espionage law. So far, Trump is letting her die a natural death. It would perfectly be within his authority to have the FBI or CIA arrest her and try her for high crimes against the United States of America.
tmiddles wrote:
If a crime is committed we have agencies for that.

Yes we do. They work for Trump. See Article II of the Constitution.
tmiddles wrote:
If a government official has a conflict of interest they simply step back and let other professionals handle it.

Which is what he would do. He would hand it to the FBI or the CIA. Both agencies work for Trump.


The Parrot Killer
05-10-2019 20:56
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9573)
IBdaMann wrote:
If the U.S. had really wanted to dominate other countries, the U.S. would have about 87 states and another 36 territories.
.


There would also be no Mexico. We totally conquered that country. We gave half of it back to them.


The Parrot Killer
05-10-2019 21:17
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:You either do or don't agree that a politician should be allowed to use the power of their office to personally go after a political opponent. .

Incorrect.

The problem here is on your end. You believe that simply running for public office allows one to commit crimes with impunity because everyone in government is instantly a "political opponent" who is not allowed to "go after" him.

Your position is absurd.

.


Question dodged.
05-10-2019 21:37
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote:You either do or don't agree that a politician should be allowed to use the power of their office to personally go after a political opponent. .

Incorrect.

The problem here is on your end. You believe that simply running for public office allows one to commit crimes with impunity because everyone in government is instantly a "political opponent" who is not allowed to "go after" him.

Your position is absurd.

.


Question dodged.

No. "Ignored" is the correct word. I quite clearly spelled out the absurd extent that your question is dishonestly vague. You simply chose to ignore what I wrote, as usual.


The problem here is still on your end. Expect other dishonest vagueries to be ignored as well.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
06-10-2019 01:05
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1347)
Adam Schiffty released some texts messages yesterday, to strengthen his position. Unfortunately, I believe them to be cherry-picked, and taken out of the context of the exchange. Unfortunately, Schiffty will only release what he feels useful, and leave it up to anyone else to prove otherwise.

Not sure why they haven't voted on the impeachment inquiry, even though the have already started the investigation. They only need a simple majority, of those present, not the full House. Maybe the 'squad' are out on a plane ride somewhere, and Nancy is holding off for them. Think the main indicator, is lack of confidence. If they had no doubts about guilt, they would have moved forward, taken the vote, form the articles of impeachment, voted on it, sent it on to the senate already. The democrats claim it's simple an clear, while they are on camera, why drag their heels. What do they need to waste paper, on document requests, they should need, other than for future political purposes. The document requests aren't focused on specific aspects of the charges they are bring, but very broad. Really speaks to how confident they are, and how desperate the are to dig up anything useful, hoping and praying for something that will stick.
06-10-2019 02:45
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
IBdaMann wrote:...your question is dishonestly vague....

It's not my question it is THE question of the issue.

What Biden did is a separate issue from what Trump did. You could have a homicide where one person had a really good reason for murdering the other. Murder is still a crime.

Trump, being of feeble mind, has never understood a conflict of interest warranting a government official from recusing themselves from government action. Just look at the fate of poor loyal Jeff Sessions.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/does-sessions-have-recuse-himself-russia-investigations

Trump not only did not recuse himself from being involved he took the lead and used the power of his office, outside of the issue at hand (aid for Ukraine), to press the issue. (and yes Biden did this as well, you say it's corrupt, I agree)

If we have elections where we allow the incumbent to use their office to take out rivals say goodbye to what little democracy we have.

I'm not defending Biden at all. And to be honest I'm far less worried about Trump than I am about Trump 3.0 30 years from now.

We can't allow the structure of our democracy to be stepped on like this.

And as usual IBD you pretend I have some super power that prevents you from forming a thought. Once again, nothing on the table from you.
06-10-2019 02:48
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Adam Schiffty released some texts ...cherry-picked, ...will only release what he feels useful, ...Not sure why they haven't voted on the impeachment inquiry...
Is the author of the texts prevented from clarifying the issue by releasing anything Shiff excludes? Seems like an easy way to nail him for bias.

Also they'll want this to have some beneficial impact in 13 months of course they'll drag it out.

Gotta make you wonder why Trump would serve this up to them! 3 dimensional chess he's playing, or just a moron.
06-10-2019 06:25
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
tmiddles wrote: 3 dimensional chess he's playing, or just a moron.

Did I mention that Trump got himself elected President of the United States?

Hmmm, yeah, he must be a moron.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
06-10-2019 06:32
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1322)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: 3 dimensional chess he's playing, or just a moron.

Did I mention that Trump got himself elected President of the United States?
Hmmm, yeah, he must be a moron.
.
Maybe in the new America Trump makes I'll be arrested for saying it. It will certainly get you fired!: white-house-aides-wanted-rex-tillerson-to-resign-for-calling-trump-a-!@#$%-moron

Tillerson would know better than I would, I'll admit that. But it's an easy call to make even from here.
06-10-2019 06:38
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4906)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: 3 dimensional chess he's playing, or just a moron.

Did I mention that Trump got himself elected President of the United States?
Hmmm, yeah, he must be a moron.
.
Maybe in the new America Trump makes I'll be arrested for saying it..

Right, because you declare Trump to be Hitler, seeing as how he keeps the Federal gas chambers running 24/7, right?

I'm sure everybody lends you immense credibility.

Immense!

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
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