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2nd law



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2nd law11-02-2020 03:45
keepit
★★★★☆
(1529)
ITN and IBDM consistently misapply the 2nd law to justify their claim that global warming doesn't exist. The fact of the matter is simple - when one subsystem of the universe (the sun) adds energy to another subsystem (the earth and its atmosphere) the entropy of the whole universe increases but the entropy of the
subsystem (earth) receiving the energy doesn't. Another example of this is that life gains energy from the sun and as this occurs the entropy of the living thing decreases for a short time while the entropy of the sun and the entropy of the universe increases.
It's really very simple.
11-02-2020 03:52
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
keepit wrote:
ITN and IBDM consistently misapply the 2nd law [of thermodynamics]
It's really very simple.
Yes it is.
They have consistently tried to pretend there is an addon (linked to it's thread):
IBdaMann wrote:1) photons of the lower temperature object are not absorbed by the higher temperature object.
2) what the photons actually do is governed more by uncertainty than by any science that predicts what will happen. Like I said before, photons can deflect, do back-flips, take selfies and interact in any way other than being absorbed.
The above is a not a theory of science at all, and has never been associated with the 2nd LTD outside the effors of ITN/IBD and I'm sure some other net posters. It's just made up garbage.

Why make that up? Some weird attempt to cut off the entire debate and pretend that it's physically impossible for radiance coming from a gas atmosphere to be absorbed by solid ground if the temperature of the ground is higher.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
11-02-2020 06:46
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7085)
IBdaMann wrote:1) photons of the lower temperature object are not absorbed by the higher temperature object.
2) what the photons actually do is governed more by uncertainty than by any science that predicts what will happen. Like I said before, photons can deflect, do back-flips, take selfies and interact in any way other than being absorbed.


tmiddles wrote:The above is a not a theory of science at all, and has never been associated with the 2nd LTD outside the effors of ITN/IBD


... and neither of us have ever claimed this is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. I was in the process of explaining to you that the quantum world cannot be modelled using macro world references. That was around the time you began refusing to discuss the matter and decided to double down on thermal energy being able to flow from cooler to warmer.

You shouldn't pretend to represent my position when you don't know it and you refuse to discuss it or to seek clarification.

Why refuse to understand what I was talking about concerning the quantum world? Some weird attempt to cut off the entire debate and pretend that thermal energy can flow from cooler to warmer in order to retain hope of one day claiming that science proves Global Warming is real and active in our lives.

You are clueless when it comes to the quantum world. You are incompetent when it comes to statistical math. The only ones who will rally to your support are the boneheads like keepit. I'm happy to watch as that unfolds.



.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
11-02-2020 07:00
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
IBdaMann wrote:
... and neither of us have ever claimed this is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.... you ...double down on thermal energy being able to flow from cooler to warmer... and pretend that thermal energy can flow from cooler to warmer...


So IBD I claim that radiance the walls and air of a room which is cooler than it's living human occupant are absorbed by that person's skin. So that is radiance from a cooler object being absorbed by a warmer one. If that violates a law of thermodynamics in your opinion please elaborate.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
Edited on 11-02-2020 07:01
11-02-2020 07:10
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7085)
tmiddles wrote: So IBD I claim that radiance the walls and air of a room which is cooler than it's living human occupant are absorbed by that person's skin.

Great. What do you mean by "absorbed"?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
11-02-2020 07:18
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
IBdaMann wrote:
What do you mean by "absorbed"?
That the radiance is converted to thermal energy.

Radiance itself is not thermal energy.

What's more I claim that were said person to be unable to gain this thermal energy by absorbing the radiance from the cooler room, they would eventually die from hypothermia.

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
11-02-2020 10:27
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2073)
Is it law, that radiance be converted to thermal energy?
11-02-2020 10:54
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Is it law, that radiance be converted to thermal energy?

Radiance, when it reaches matter, is either absorbed and converted to thermal energy, reflected or transmitted.

Radiance from a room at 70F would be in the infrared and easily absorbed by human skin which has an emissivity over 0.98.

So in this case it would happen.

Lucky for us.

Freezing to death would be a bummer.
11-02-2020 16:23
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7085)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
What do you mean by "absorbed"?
That the radiance is converted to thermal energy.

So you mean that all electromagnetic energy is converted to thermal energy, yes?

[I'll presume your answer is "yes"]

... which precludes any photon from simply not being absorbed, correct?

[I'll presume your answer is "yes"]

... so you are locked into a model in which all incident photons result in an uptick in the body's amount of thermal energy because that's more or less how things work intuitively in the macro world, yes?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
11-02-2020 17:02
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2073)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Is it law, that radiance be converted to thermal energy?

Radiance, when it reaches matter, is either absorbed and converted to thermal energy, reflected or transmitted.

Radiance from a room at 70F would be in the infrared and easily absorbed by human skin which has an emissivity over 0.98.

So in this case it would happen.

Lucky for us.

Freezing to death would be a bummer.


How would you observe such a thing, to know which action is being taken? The living body, would be radiating much brighter, than the interior of the 70 F room, so you could view it directly with thermal imaging. The living body, generates thermal energy, through chemical reaction, breakdown of sugars. The living body, self regulates, and attempts maintain a temperature of approximately 98.6 F. A lot of factors effect the living bodies ability to generate, and shed heat, like how fat the individual, health, hydration, nutrition... Be pretty tough to observe with a rectal thermometer, but that's basically, where you pulled this silly metaphysics problem.
11-02-2020 18:32
keepit
★★★★☆
(1529)
The colder object radiates em energy. That energy has to go somewhere, regardless of whether its surroundings are warmer or colder. True the warmer object radiates as well but because the warmer object has received energy from the colder object it has more energy to radiate. It's a net flow situation.
11-02-2020 18:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
keepit wrote:
ITN and IBDM consistently misapply the 2nd law to justify their claim that global warming doesn't exist. The fact of the matter is simple - when one subsystem of the universe (the sun) adds energy to another subsystem (the earth and its atmosphere) the entropy of the whole universe increases but the entropy of the
subsystem (earth) receiving the energy doesn't.

Goalpost shifting fallacy. You can't compare two different systems as if they were the same system. Mantras 16,20a1,20a2.
keepit wrote:
Another example of this is that life gains energy from the sun and as this occurs the entropy of the living thing decreases for a short time while the entropy of the sun and the entropy of the universe increases. ...deleted Mantras 7...12...

Goalpost shifting fallacy. You can't compare two different systems as if they were the same system. Mantras 16, 20a1, 20a2.


The Parrot Killer
11-02-2020 18:35
keepit
★★★★☆
(1529)
Sounds kind of dodgy there ITN. What did you actually say?
11-02-2020 18:38
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
tmiddles wrote:
...deleted Mantras 20a1...20a2...20b...33..20a2...33...29...24...30...20a2...10b...

No argument presented. No new questions.


The Parrot Killer
11-02-2020 18:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
tmiddles wrote:
...deleted Mantras 27...33...31...30...20a2...27...

No argument presented. No new questions.


The Parrot Killer
11-02-2020 18:48
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
What do you mean by "absorbed"?
...deleted Mantras 20a2...33...25...10(heat<->radiant heat)...22(net heat)...25...32...31...



The Parrot Killer
11-02-2020 18:49
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Is it law, that radiance be converted to thermal energy?

No.


The Parrot Killer
11-02-2020 19:00
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
tmiddles wrote:
...deleted Mantras 33...31...25...16...22...33...33...

No argument presented.


The Parrot Killer
11-02-2020 19:03
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
keepit wrote:
The colder object radiates em energy. That energy has to go somewhere, regardless of whether its surroundings are warmer or colder. True the warmer object radiates as well but because the warmer object has received energy from the colder object it has more energy to radiate. It's a net flow situation.


Mantras 33...33...20a2...22...

There is no such thing as 'net flow'. There is no such thing as 'net heat'.


The Parrot Killer
11-02-2020 19:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
keepit wrote:
Sounds kind of dodgy there ITN. What did you actually say?

RQAA


The Parrot Killer
11-02-2020 19:34
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7085)
keepit wrote: Sounds kind of dodgy there ITN. What did you actually say?

There's a good reason why everything confuses you.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
11-02-2020 21:13
gfm7175Profile picture★★★☆☆
(941)
IBdaMann wrote:
keepit wrote: Sounds kind of dodgy there ITN. What did you actually say?

There's a good reason why everything confuses you.


.

I'd hate to be so damn confused all the time...
12-02-2020 04:37
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
IBdaMann wrote:...all electromagnetic energy is converted to thermal energy, yes?
YES

IBdaMann wrote:...which precludes any photon from simply not being absorbed, correct?
YES

IBdaMann wrote:...so you are locked into a model in which all incident photons result in an uptick in the body's amount of thermal energy
The body's amount of thermal energy would be due to three quantities: The amount already there, minus the amount lost, plus the amount gained.

YES the radiance of the room is a gain of thermal energy.
BUT the radiance off of the skin is a loss of thermal energy.
In fact, that loss is greater than that gain. If it weren't for the bodies metabolism, generating energy from food, and its muscle movement producing thermal energy, the human body would be losing more thermal energy than it gained.

So your third point weirdly pretends that the only thermal energy change possible is either the absorption or not of radiance from the room. So it's a false premise entirely.

HarveyH55 wrote:
How would you observe such a thing, to know which action is being taken?
You mean how would you know if the radiance of the room were instead being absorbed or reflected? I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if that's possible. In this example it doesn't matter since the entire issue is how the human body can get enough thermal energy to offset it's own radiance.

HarveyH55 wrote:
The living body, would be radiating much brighter, than the interior of the 70 F room,
This is basically true. I don't know about MUCH. 70F and 98.6F are only 16K degrees apart. 294K to 310K

HarveyH55 wrote:A lot of factors effect the living bodies ability to generate, and shed heat, like how fat the individual, health, hydration, nutrition... Be pretty tough to observe with a rectal thermometer, but that's basically, where you pulled this silly metaphysics problem.
Well it's an elementary problem for young students so it is a bit simple. The question relative to this board is can you, IBD, or anyone concoct a scenario in which the radiance from the room is not absorbed by the person and they don't freeze to death?

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is ever valid for them
12-02-2020 04:56
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7085)
tmiddles wrote: So your third point weirdly pretends that the only thermal energy change possible is either the absorption or not of radiance from the room. So it's a false premise entirely.

That *is* your position (whether you realize it or not) and you have now successfully realized a big protion of the problem with it.

You've made more progress by just rambling than with all the attempts at rational discussion combined. Perhaps we should stick with this format. Tell me more about what happens exactly with the (non-living) body's thermal energy as incident photons and emitting photons go abut their business.

[note: because you are apt to misread, I am asking you to describe the thermal energy, not the photons]


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-02-2020 05:03
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
IBdaMann wrote:
That *is* your position

What is?

My response was complete. What are you missing?

And what is your position IBD?
Edited on 12-02-2020 05:06
12-02-2020 05:07
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7085)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...the (non-living) body's thermal energy...

Why are they dead?

The body in question was never alive. We're discussing my scenario.

I knew you'd misread and try to misdirect.

Tell me more about what happens exactly with the (non-living) body's thermal energy as incident photons and emitting photons go about their business.

[note: because you are apt to misread, I am asking you to describe the thermal energy, not the photons]

... or are you officially reneging on your agreement to discuss your beliefs?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 12-02-2020 05:15
12-02-2020 05:10
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
IBdaMann wrote:...the (non-living) body's thermal energy...


Why are they dead?

What are you asking? You want the actual thermal energy equation balanced out?

Also why are you handicapped and unable to take a position on what's going on in the room you're in right now?
Edited on 12-02-2020 05:11
12-02-2020 05:17
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7085)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...the (non-living) body's thermal energy...

Why are they dead?

The body in question was never alive. We're discussing my scenario.

I knew you'd misread and try to misdirect.

Tell me more about what happens exactly with the (non-living) body's thermal energy as incident photons and emitting photons go about their business.

[note: because you are apt to misread, I am asking you to describe the thermal energy, not the photons]

... or are you officially reneging on your agreement to discuss your beliefs?


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-02-2020 05:22
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
IBdaMann wrote:We're discussing my scenario.

What is your scenario? I carefully reviewed the posts above and you don't seem to have one.

So first of all you still have no excuse as to why you won't address the scenario I've presented, which is you and me right now, living people in rooms.

But no problem on a person who has just died? So they have a living persons skin temperature initially? Or have they been dead long enough to cool?
12-02-2020 05:32
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7085)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:We're discussing my scenario.

What is your scenario?

This is intentional reneging on your part. This is called a Subduction Zone #1.

tmiddles wrote: I carefully reviewed the posts above and you don't seem to have one.

Nope. You didn't read a thing, and you are lying right now.

I block copied my request three times and you are showing that you will EVADE at whatever cost.

I'll tell you what, I'll ask one more time and if you don't want to respond, fine, but don't pretend that you did.

I knew you'd misread and try to misdirect.

Tell me more about what happens exactly with a (non-living) body's thermal energy as incident photons and emitting photons go about their business.

[note: because you are apt to misread, I am asking you to describe the thermal energy, not the photons]



A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 12-02-2020 05:35
12-02-2020 06:00
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
IBdaMann wrote:
Tell me more about what happens exactly with a (non-living) body's thermal energy


I need to know if the (human) body recently bevame non-living and has the temperature consistent with a living person or the have been dead a long while and have cooled to room temp.
I can give a complete calculation for both.

And you continue to dodge my scenario and offer no explanations of your own.
12-02-2020 06:30
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7085)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Tell me more about what happens exactly with a (non-living) body's thermal energy


I need to know if the (human) body recently bevame non-living and has the temperature consistent with a living person or the have been dead a long while and have cooled to room temp.

There was never a living body in my scenario. I have only ever specified non-living bodies.[/quote]


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-02-2020 06:32
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
IBdaMann wrote:
. I have only ever specified non-living bodies.



.[/quote] so its a room temperature corpse?
12-02-2020 17:06
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7085)
tmiddles wrote:so its a room temperature corpse?


Scenario: An 8x8x3 meter room with steel panel walls, roof and floor, all with uniform 18 degrees Celsius initial temperature, inside and out. Suspended in the exact middle/center of the room by a powerful repelling magnet in the floor is a 5cm diameter steel ball (the "body") with initial uniform temperature of 42 degrees Celsius.

Discussion: What happens exactly with thermal energy of the body (steel ball) and that of the room (i.e. the air+walls+roof+floor) as photons fly about every which way.

[note: because you are apt to misread, I am asking you to describe the thermal energy, not the photons]


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
12-02-2020 18:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
tmiddles wrote:
...deleted Mantras 20b...20a2...10 (reflect<->absorb, refract<->absorb)...denial of quantum physics...33...22 (net heat)...10 (light<->heat)...20a1...33...20b...16...20b...10...29...2...31...10...20a2...20b...29...29...sig...

No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer
12-02-2020 18:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
That *is* your position

...deleted Mantras 2...lie...29...29...

No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer
12-02-2020 18:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:...the (non-living) body's thermal energy...

...deleted Mantras 29...16...20a1...20a2...13...29...

No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer
12-02-2020 18:36
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:We're discussing my scenario.

...deleted Mantras 29...23...29...21...16...33...

No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer
12-02-2020 18:38
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(12800)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Tell me more about what happens exactly with a (non-living) body's thermal energy

...deleted Mantras 16...20a2...25...30...29...

No argument presented. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer
12-02-2020 23:58
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3274)
IBdaMann wrote:
Scenario: An 8x8x3 meter room ....5cm diameter steel ball .


Not factoring in air in the room and conduction convection, both the ball and the walls will, as they have thermal energy and a temperature, radiate out. The radiance leaving the walls and ball results in a loss of thermal energy.

Both the walls and the ball are also hit by radiance.

For the ball it is hit by some of the radiance from the walls and this is absorbed and converted to thermal energy.

The walls will be hit by radiance from the walls and the ball and absorb that radiance.

The walls will see a net increase in thermal energy as the ball gives more radiant energy than it absorbs. The ball will see a net decrease as it gives more than it gets.

So IBD are we once again playing the game where you ignore my questions and only ask your own?

Oh and you still haven't responded here: https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/do-i-have-the-co2-calamity-math-right-help-from-an-expert-please-d10-e2720-s160.php#post_52389
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