Surface temperature of earth according to Boltzmann law

Xadoman wrote:
https://www.physics-in-a-nutshell.com/article/17/surface-temperature-of-the-earth

Hei , IBdaMann, could you check the math in this article.

Xadoman wrote:
It turns out from calculations that the surface of the earth should be at -15 celcius( I guess it should be taken as on average)

Xadoman wrote:
How does it seem to you? Quite correct or should the emissivity be changed a little bit lower or higher to get a better approximation?

Xadoman wrote:
Why do I ask? It seems, that many people can not belive that the surface temperature of earth should be on average at -15 degrees celsius and therefore they fall for the global warming and greenhouse effect scam beliveing it to be about 33 degrees higher( that is what the greenhouse guys are proposing)

Xadoman wrote:
They need to somehow understand that this approximation is indeed quite right since it is calculated from Boltzmann law.

It is not possible to calculate the temperature of the Earth.

Xadoman wrote:

It is not possible to calculate the temperature of the Earth.

The incoming stream of energy from the sun is approximately known. The radius of earth is also known. That allows to calculate the surface area of earth which is absorbing the energy.

Xadoman wrote:
The earth and sun are in equilibrium - according to Kirchoff s law, what comes in must go out.

Xadoman wrote:
The surface area of earth is also known as the radius of earth is known. So the energy what comes in must go out and therefore it is spread over the surface area of earth.

Xadoman wrote:
The Stefan Boltzmann law gives the temperature of the body.

Xadoman wrote:
All of it can be calculated easily as seen from those calculations made in the article.

Xadoman wrote:
The only thing not known is the exact emissivity of earth.

Xadoman wrote:
That is why I wanted to know what IBdaMann thinks about this approximation.

Xadoman wrote:
He is a math quy and good with numbers and estimations.

Xadoman wrote:
The problem with -15 degrees on average seems too low for layman people to belive to be true and that makes them vulnerable for falling for the greenhouse effect scammers.

Xadoman wrote:
How to convince them that according to Boltzmann the average temperature is -15 ( assuming the emissivity is about 0,7)?

Xadoman wrote:
Maybe the emissivity is just too conservative and should be rised over 0,9.

Xadoman wrote:
That brings the temperature around 0 degrees celsius.

Xadoman wrote:
Would not it be logical to be at 0 on average- meaning that on average the ice is forming and melting at the same time leaving the sea level unchanged on average?

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth

Irrelevant straw man.

The Stefan-Boltzmann law does NOT give the temperature of any body. Math error.

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

This gives an effective temperature of 6 °C on the surface of the Earth, assuming that it perfectly absorbs all emission falling on it and has no atmosphere.

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

The power of the Sun at the Earth, per square metre is called the solar constant and is approximately 1370 watts per square metre (W/m2).

Xadoman wrote:
Also, my quess is that we must be near 0 degrees celsius on average. This is the point where the formation of ice and melting of ice is at equilibrium.
At -15 degrees the formation of ice should dominate. The ice mass on land should build up and therefore the sea level should slowly start to go down.

At +6 the melting of ice should dominate and the melting ice that sits on land would contribute to the sea level rise.

None of that is happening, so my quess is that we are at 0 degrees celsius on average.

Do not you agree, IBdaMann?

Xadoman wrote:He used 0,7 in his calculations. Do you think it is too conservative and should be higher?

Xadoman wrote:But we can estimate it and make calculations based on that.

Xadoman wrote:The approximate amount of energy that the sun sends towards the earth is known.

Xadoman wrote:Enegy in must equal energy out.

Xadoman wrote:Pumping the emissivity to 1 rises the average to about 6 degrees celsius. From wiki:

Xadoman wrote:

It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth

I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun. It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

Xadoman wrote:

Irrelevant straw man.

Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

Xadoman wrote:

The Stefan-Boltzmann law does NOT give the temperature of any body. Math error.

W = ε σT4

We know the W( earth must radiate over its surface the same amount that is incoming from the sun. First law of themodynamics),therefore we can calculate the T.

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

Xadoman wrote:

which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

He used 0,7 in his calculations. Do you think it is too conservative and should be higher?

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

We know that. But we can estimate it and make calculations based on that.

Xadoman wrote:

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

The approximate amount of energy that the sun sends towards the earth is known. The radius of earth is known, allowing to calculate the area which absorbs the energy sent from the sun.
From the first law of thermodynamics we know that everything that is absorbed must be radiated away. Enegy in must equal energy out. Knowing the radius of the earth allows to calculate the surface area of the earth. Knowing the surface area of the earth allow to calculate how much the earth radiates .

Xadoman wrote:

The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

Pumping the emissivity to 1 rises the average to about 6 degrees celsius. From wiki:

Xadoman wrote:

This gives an effective temperature of 6 °C on the surface of the Earth, assuming that it perfectly absorbs all emission falling on it and has no atmosphere.

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Do not you agree that the energy in must equal energy out?

Enegry in is known.

Xadoman wrote:

The power of the Sun at the Earth, per square metre is called the solar constant and is approximately 1370 watts per square metre (W/m2).

The surface area of earth that absorbs the enery from the sun can be calculated since the radius of earth is known.

The surface area of earth can be calculated because the radius of earth is known.


Therefore, knowing the total amount of energy the earth is absorbing from the sun, the radiation of earth can also be calculated.

Xadoman wrote:
Turns out - at emissivity=0,7 , the average surface temperature should be around -15 degrees of celsius.

At emissivity =1, the average surface temperature should be around 6 dergees of celsius.


So , knowing these theoretically calculated boundaries, I would like to hear your guesstimate, IBdaMann.

Xadoman wrote:
Also, my quess is that we must be near 0 degrees celsius on average. This is the point where the formation of ice and melting of ice is at equilibrium.
At -15 degrees the formation of ice should dominate. The ice mass on land should build up and therefore the sea level should slowly start to go down.

At +6 the melting of ice should dominate and the melting ice that sits on land would contribute to the sea level rise.

None of that is happening, so my quess is that we are at 0 degrees celsius on average.

Do not you agree, IBdaMann?

Swan wrote:

Xadoman wrote:
Also, my quess is that we must be near 0 degrees celsius on average. This is the point where the formation of ice and melting of ice is at equilibrium.
At -15 degrees the formation of ice should dominate. The ice mass on land should build up and therefore the sea level should slowly start to go down.

At +6 the melting of ice should dominate and the melting ice that sits on land would contribute to the sea level rise.

None of that is happening, so my quess is that we are at 0 degrees celsius on average.

Do not you agree, IBdaMann?

Normal people use a thermometer to find the temp

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Not all that that IS absorbed is converted to thermal energy.

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

It does for people that are not stupid like you

Xadoman wrote:
IBdaMann, why do you focus on the fact that emissivity can not be measured?

Xadoman wrote:
That is quite irrelevant.

Xadoman wrote:
I already posted the calculated theoretical boundaries for emissivities from 0.7 to 1 and posted estimated temperatures accordingly ( -15 degrees celsius at 0,7 and 6 degrees at 1 ).

Xadoman wrote:
The incoming energy stream from the sun is approximately known and from that the average temperature of the surface of the earth could be calculated using Boltzmann law.

Xadoman wrote:
I myself would guesstimate a real average somewhere around 0. -15 seems too low for me but maybe it indeed could be right. I am not so good with numbers, that is why I turn to math guys like IBdaMann, who could easily help me out with this. I just want to hear your guesstimation.

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Xadoman wrote:

Not all that that IS absorbed is converted to thermal energy.

I know you have previously said that some gets stored in chemichal bonds but eventully I think all this energy will be released as heat. For example the cow eats grass. The grass contains this chemichally bonded energy from the sun but pretty soon it will be released as the cow decomposes the grass to heat up its body. Do not you agree?

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

The Stefan-Boltzmann law is not used to calculate temperature

Millions of years after that, our planet would reach a stable -400°, the temperature at which the heat radiating from the planet's core would equal the heat that the Earth radiates into space, explains David Stevenson, a professor of planetary science at the California Institute of Technology.

Xadoman wrote:Stefan-Boltzmann is all about temperature.

Xadoman wrote:Energy in must equal energy out, this is the first law of thermodynamics.

Independent Variable = TEMPERATURE
Dependent Variable = RADIANCE

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Mine does, yours may be broken.

Xadoman wrote:

The Stefan-Boltzmann law is not used to calculate temperature

Stefan-Boltzmann is all about temperature. Temperature is even in 4-th power.

Xadoman wrote:
Here is the equation in plain sight for everybody to see:

W=j*T^4 (j=constant)

Xadoman wrote:
Energy in must equal energy out, this is the first law of thermodynamics. The amount that the sun sends towards us is approximately known. The surface area that is absorbing can be calculated since the radius of earth is known. Therefore the amount the earth must radiate can be directly calculated from it( total amount the earth absorbs must equal the amount that the earth emits. The surface area of earth is known since the radius of earth is known. The total amount the earth emits divided with the surface area of earth give the radiance. Simple as that ) The only thing which is not known is the exact emissivity of earth. It can be guessed since it ranges from 0-1.

Turns out that at emissivity=0.7, the surface of the earth should be on average at -15 degrees celsius. At emissivity=1 , the surface of the earth should be on average at 6 degrees celsius.

The -15 degree celsius average seems unbelievable to most people. Therefore they fall for the greenhouse gases scammers.

My question to IBdaMann was how to convince people that the -15 on average could be indeed the right approximate value for the average temperature for the surface of the earth.

The church of global warming stems from this belief that the surface of the earth can not be at -15 degrees celsius on average, although Stefan Boltzmann law gives this approximation.

Xadoman wrote:
It seems I found and anwer:

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-long-life-could-survive-if-the-sun-went-out-2013-7?r=US&IR=T

Millions of years after that, our planet would reach a stable -400°, the temperature at which the heat radiating from the planet's core would equal the heat that the Earth radiates into space, explains David Stevenson, a professor of planetary science at the California Institute of Technology.

-400 degrees Farenheit is 33 Kelvin. That is what the planet s inner core is contributing to the planets radiance.


Now we can sum up the 33K( caused by the inner core)+255K( caused by the sun) and we get the overall 288K .


Do you agree with that, IBdaMann?

Xadoman wrote:

Independent Variable = TEMPERATURE
Dependent Variable = RADIANCE

We can calculate the temperature if we know the radiance.

For example, in electronics, the Ohm s law . U is what is causing the current in a wire. I=U/R. That mean if we know the voltage and R, we can calculate the I. If we measure I, then we can calculate the U. Simple as that.

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.

Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

So, is trolling...

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

So, is trolling...

Mantra 40a. SOL3

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Swan wrote:
It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

So, is trolling...

Mantra 40a. SOL3

Perhaps...

Now we can sum up the 33K( caused by the inner core)+255K( caused by the sun) and we get the overall 288K .


Do you agree with that, IBdaMann?