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Surface temperature of earth according to Boltzmann law



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Surface temperature of earth according to Boltzmann law30-04-2023 04:43
Xadoman
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(1036)
https://www.physics-in-a-nutshell.com/article/17/surface-temperature-of-the-earth

Hei , IBdaMann, could you check the math in this article. It turns out from calculations that the surface of the earth should be at -15 celcius( I guess it should be taken as on average)

How does it seem to you? Quite correct or should the emissivity be changed a little bit lower or higher to get a better approximation?

Why do I ask? It seems, that many people can not belive that the surface temperature of earth should be on average at -15 degrees celsius and therefore they fall for the global warming and greenhouse effect scam beliveing it to be about 33 degrees higher( that is what the greenhouse guys are proposing)

They need to somehow understand that this approximation is indeed quite right since it is calculated from Boltzmann law.
30-04-2023 19:45
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Xadoman wrote:
https://www.physics-in-a-nutshell.com/article/17/surface-temperature-of-the-earth

Hei , IBdaMann, could you check the math in this article.

I immediately see several problems:
* It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.
* It is not possible to measure the emissivity of the Earth.
* Applying emissivity in one case and assuming perfect emissivity in another case on the same body at the same time is a paradox via a false equivalency.
* The Stefan-Boltzmann law is NOT the only way for energy to leave Earth.
* There is no frequency component in the Stefan-Boltzmann law. You are implicitly adding one.
* There is no 'should be' in science or in mathematics.
Xadoman wrote:
It turns out from calculations that the surface of the earth should be at -15 celcius( I guess it should be taken as on average)

There is no 'should be'. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. A temperature is ALREADY an average. You are ignoring the 0th law of thermodynamics.
Xadoman wrote:
How does it seem to you? Quite correct or should the emissivity be changed a little bit lower or higher to get a better approximation?

Higher emissivity means two things:
* higher absorption of light.
* higher emission due to the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

Not all light absorbed is converted into thermal energy. Only certain frequencies of light convert to thermal energy when absorbed.

Xadoman wrote:
Why do I ask? It seems, that many people can not belive that the surface temperature of earth should be on average at -15 degrees celsius and therefore they fall for the global warming and greenhouse effect scam beliveing it to be about 33 degrees higher( that is what the greenhouse guys are proposing)

You are making the same kind of math errors and ignoring the same theories of science. You are no different than the Church of Global Warming.
Xadoman wrote:
They need to somehow understand that this approximation is indeed quite right since it is calculated from Boltzmann law.

It is not possible to calculate the temperature of the Earth.

Someday you should learn about the concept of dependent and independent variables in mathematics.

You are also making a divisional error fallacy. You cannot compare only a part of the Earth as the Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 30-04-2023 19:47
30-04-2023 21:02
Xadoman
★★★★☆
(1036)
It is not possible to calculate the temperature of the Earth.


The incoming stream of energy from the sun is approximately known. The radius of earth is also known. That allows to calculate the surface area of earth which is absorbing the energy. The earth and sun are in equilibrium - according to Kirchoff s law, what comes in must go out. The surface area of earth is also known as the radius of earth is known. So the energy what comes in must go out and therefore it is spread over the surface area of earth. The Stefan Boltzmann law gives the temperature of the body . All of it can be calculated easily as seen from those calculations made in the article . The only thing not known is the exact emissivity of earth. That is why I wanted to know what IBdaMann thinks about this approximation. He is a math quy and good with numbers and estimations. The problem with -15 degrees on average seems too low for layman people to belive to be true and that makes them vulnerable for falling for the greenhouse effect scammers.
How to convince them that according to Boltzmann the average temperature is -15 ( assuming the emissivity is about 0,7)? Maybe the emissivity is just too conservative and should be rised over 0,9. That brings the temperature around 0 degrees celsius. Would not it be logical to be at 0 on average- meaning that on average the ice is forming and melting at the same time leaving the sea level unchanged on average?
Edited on 30-04-2023 21:13
30-04-2023 21:54
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Xadoman wrote:
It is not possible to calculate the temperature of the Earth.


The incoming stream of energy from the sun is approximately known. The radius of earth is also known. That allows to calculate the surface area of earth which is absorbing the energy.

WRONG. The emissivity is unknown and cannot be measured. Not all light is absorbed. Not all that that is absorbed is converted into thermal energy.
Xadoman wrote:
The earth and sun are in equilibrium - according to Kirchoff s law, what comes in must go out.

Irrelevant straw man.
Xadoman wrote:
The surface area of earth is also known as the radius of earth is known. So the energy what comes in must go out and therefore it is spread over the surface area of earth.

Which you conveniently ignore.
Xadoman wrote:
The Stefan Boltzmann law gives the temperature of the body.

The Stefan-Boltzmann law does NOT give the temperature of any body. Math error.
Xadoman wrote:
All of it can be calculated easily as seen from those calculations made in the article.

No. For the math errors and fallacies I've described.
Xadoman wrote:
The only thing not known is the exact emissivity of earth.

You cannot use a random number here.
Xadoman wrote:
That is why I wanted to know what IBdaMann thinks about this approximation.

There is no approximation. You cannot use random numbers as data. You cannot use Stefan-Boltzmann to calculate the temperature of anything. It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. It is not possible to measure the emissivity of Earth.
Xadoman wrote:
He is a math quy and good with numbers and estimations.

There is no estimation. Random numbers are not data.
Xadoman wrote:
The problem with -15 degrees on average seems too low for layman people to belive to be true and that makes them vulnerable for falling for the greenhouse effect scammers.

You are making the same math errors as the scammers you denounce.
Xadoman wrote:
How to convince them that according to Boltzmann the average temperature is -15 ( assuming the emissivity is about 0,7)?

The Stefan-Boltzmann law does not calculate temperature.
Xadoman wrote:
Maybe the emissivity is just too conservative and should be rised over 0,9.

Random numbers are not data.
Xadoman wrote:
That brings the temperature around 0 degrees celsius.

Math errors. Same as before.
Xadoman wrote:
Would not it be logical to be at 0 on average- meaning that on average the ice is forming and melting at the same time leaving the sea level unchanged on average?

Ice does not change sea level. It is not possible to measure the total snow and ice on Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
30-04-2023 23:54
Xadoman
★★★★☆
(1036)
It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth


I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun. It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

Irrelevant straw man.


Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout


The Stefan-Boltzmann law does NOT give the temperature of any body. Math error.


W = ε σT4

We know the W( earth must radiate over its surface the same amount that is incoming from the sun. First law of themodynamics),therefore we can calculate the T.
01-05-2023 15:56
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14537)
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.
01-05-2023 17:59
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(5734)
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this


IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD.

According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC

This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA

So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic?


It's time to dig up Joseph Mccarthey and show him TikTok, then duck.


Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
01-05-2023 19:00
Xadoman
★★★★☆
(1036)
which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.


He used 0,7 in his calculations. Do you think it is too conservative and should be higher?

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.


We know that. But we can estimate it and make calculations based on that.


I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.


The approximate amount of energy that the sun sends towards the earth is known. The radius of earth is known, allowing to calculate the area which absorbs the energy sent from the sun.
From the first law of thermodynamics we know that everything that is absorbed must be radiated away. Enegy in must equal energy out. Knowing the radius of the earth allows to calculate the surface area of the earth. Knowing the surface area of the earth allow to calculate how much the earth radiates .

The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."


Pumping the emissivity to 1 rises the average to about 6 degrees celsius. From wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan%E2%80%93Boltzmann_law

This gives an effective temperature of 6 °C on the surface of the Earth, assuming that it perfectly absorbs all emission falling on it and has no atmosphere.



This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Do not you agree that the energy in must equal energy out?

Enegry in is known.

The power of the Sun at the Earth, per square metre is called the solar constant and is approximately 1370 watts per square metre (W/m2).


The surface area of earth that absorbs the enery from the sun can be calculated since the radius of earth is known.

The surface area of earth can be calculated because the radius of earth is known.


Therefore, knowing the total amount of energy the earth is absorbing from the sun, the radiation of earth can also be calculated.


Turns out - at emissivity=0,7 , the average surface temperature should be around -15 degrees of celsius.

At emissivity =1, the average surface temperature should be around 6 dergees of celsius.


So , knowing these theoretically calculated boundaries, I would like to hear your guesstimate, IBdaMann.
01-05-2023 19:14
Xadoman
★★★★☆
(1036)
Also, my quess is that we must be near 0 degrees celsius on average. This is the point where the formation of ice and melting of ice is at equilibrium.
At -15 degrees the formation of ice should dominate. The ice mass on land should build up and therefore the sea level should slowly start to go down.

At +6 the melting of ice should dominate and the melting ice that sits on land would contribute to the sea level rise.

None of that is happening, so my quess is that we are at 0 degrees celsius on average.

Do not you agree, IBdaMann?
01-05-2023 19:29
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(5734)
Xadoman wrote:
Also, my quess is that we must be near 0 degrees celsius on average. This is the point where the formation of ice and melting of ice is at equilibrium.
At -15 degrees the formation of ice should dominate. The ice mass on land should build up and therefore the sea level should slowly start to go down.

At +6 the melting of ice should dominate and the melting ice that sits on land would contribute to the sea level rise.

None of that is happening, so my quess is that we are at 0 degrees celsius on average.

Do not you agree, IBdaMann?


Normal people use a thermometer to find the temp


IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD.

According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC

This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA

So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic?


It's time to dig up Joseph Mccarthey and show him TikTok, then duck.


Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
01-05-2023 21:54
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14537)
Xadoman wrote:He used 0,7 in his calculations. Do you think it is too conservative and should be higher?

Nobody knows what that value is. Why didn't he guess 0.278? Why not 0.446?

Xadoman wrote:But we can estimate it and make calculations based on that.

You can't estimate any better than you can guess the value.

Xadoman wrote:The approximate amount of energy that the sun sends towards the earth is known.

What is the area of a rectangle of length 74? Feel free to estimate.

Xadoman wrote:Enegy in must equal energy out.

This is not Kirchhoff's law.

Xadoman wrote:Pumping the emissivity to 1 rises the average to about 6 degrees celsius. From wiki:

Why don't you just pull the correct answer out of Wikipedia?

Oh, that's right, Wikipedia doesn't have any correct answers.
01-05-2023 22:07
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Xadoman wrote:
It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth


I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun. It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

Not possible. The emissivity is unknown and cannot be measured.
Xadoman wrote:
Irrelevant straw man.


Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

Kirchoff law is not used here.
Xadoman wrote:
The Stefan-Boltzmann law does NOT give the temperature of any body. Math error.


W = ε σT4

We know the W( earth must radiate over its surface the same amount that is incoming from the sun. First law of themodynamics),therefore we can calculate the T.

WRONG the emissivity value is unknown. It cannot be measured.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
01-05-2023 22:10
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
01-05-2023 22:18
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Xadoman wrote:
which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.


He used 0,7 in his calculations. Do you think it is too conservative and should be higher?

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.


We know that. But we can estimate it and make calculations based on that.

It is not possible to calculate the temperature of Earth. The emissivity is unknown and cannot be measured. Not all that that IS absorbed is converted to thermal energy.
Xadoman wrote:
I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.


The approximate amount of energy that the sun sends towards the earth is known. The radius of earth is known, allowing to calculate the area which absorbs the energy sent from the sun.
From the first law of thermodynamics we know that everything that is absorbed must be radiated away. Enegy in must equal energy out. Knowing the radius of the earth allows to calculate the surface area of the earth. Knowing the surface area of the earth allow to calculate how much the earth radiates .

It is not possible to calculate how much the Earth radiates, since it is not possible to calculate how much energy the Earth absorbs, and not all of the energy absorbed is converted into thermal energy.
Xadoman wrote:
The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."


Pumping the emissivity to 1 rises the average to about 6 degrees celsius. From wiki:
Wikipedia is wrong, like usual.
Xadoman wrote:
This gives an effective temperature of 6 °C on the surface of the Earth, assuming that it perfectly absorbs all emission falling on it and has no atmosphere.



This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Do not you agree that the energy in must equal energy out?

Enegry in is known.

No. It is not. Earth does not absorb all of the energy, and what IS absorbed is not necessarily converted into thermal energy.
Xadoman wrote:
The power of the Sun at the Earth, per square metre is called the solar constant and is approximately 1370 watts per square metre (W/m2).


The surface area of earth that absorbs the enery from the sun can be calculated since the radius of earth is known.

The surface area of earth can be calculated because the radius of earth is known.


Therefore, knowing the total amount of energy the earth is absorbing from the sun, the radiation of earth can also be calculated.
It is not possible to calculate the energy Earth absorbs.
Xadoman wrote:
Turns out - at emissivity=0,7 , the average surface temperature should be around -15 degrees of celsius.

At emissivity =1, the average surface temperature should be around 6 dergees of celsius.


So , knowing these theoretically calculated boundaries, I would like to hear your guesstimate, IBdaMann.

He has already answered your question. So have I. RQAA.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
01-05-2023 22:19
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Xadoman wrote:
Also, my quess is that we must be near 0 degrees celsius on average. This is the point where the formation of ice and melting of ice is at equilibrium.
At -15 degrees the formation of ice should dominate. The ice mass on land should build up and therefore the sea level should slowly start to go down.

At +6 the melting of ice should dominate and the melting ice that sits on land would contribute to the sea level rise.

None of that is happening, so my quess is that we are at 0 degrees celsius on average.

Do not you agree, IBdaMann?

RQAA. Math errors.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
01-05-2023 22:19
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Swan wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Also, my quess is that we must be near 0 degrees celsius on average. This is the point where the formation of ice and melting of ice is at equilibrium.
At -15 degrees the formation of ice should dominate. The ice mass on land should build up and therefore the sea level should slowly start to go down.

At +6 the melting of ice should dominate and the melting ice that sits on land would contribute to the sea level rise.

None of that is happening, so my quess is that we are at 0 degrees celsius on average.

Do not you agree, IBdaMann?


Normal people use a thermometer to find the temp

You cannot measure the temperature of the Earth with a thermometer.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
01-05-2023 22:30
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(5734)
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you


IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD.

According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC

This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA

So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic?


It's time to dig up Joseph Mccarthey and show him TikTok, then duck.


Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
02-05-2023 00:04
Xadoman
★★★★☆
(1036)
IBdaMann, why do you focus on the fact that emissivity can not be measured? That is quite irrelevant. I already posted the calculated theoretical boundaries for emissivities from 0.7 to 1 and posted estimated temperatures accordingly ( -15 degrees celsius at 0,7 and 6 degrees at 1 ). The incoming energy stream from the sun is approximately known and from that the average temperature of the surface of the earth could be calculated using Boltzmann law.

I myself would guesstimate a real average somewhere around 0. -15 seems too low for me but maybe it indeed could be right. I am not so good with numbers, that is why I turn to math guys like IBdaMann, who could easily help me out with this. I just want to hear your guesstimation.
Edited on 02-05-2023 00:05
02-05-2023 00:19
Xadoman
★★★★☆
(1036)
Not all that that IS absorbed is converted to thermal energy.


I know you have previously said that some gets stored in chemichal bonds but eventully I think all this energy will be released as heat. For example the cow eats grass. The grass contains this chemichally bonded energy from the sun but pretty soon it will be released as the cow decomposes the grass to heat up its body. Do not you agree?
02-05-2023 08:17
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
02-05-2023 08:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Xadoman wrote:
IBdaMann, why do you focus on the fact that emissivity can not be measured?

Because it can't. To measure emissivity, you must first accurately know the temperature of the Earth.
Xadoman wrote:
That is quite irrelevant.

It is completely relevant.
Xadoman wrote:
I already posted the calculated theoretical boundaries for emissivities from 0.7 to 1 and posted estimated temperatures accordingly ( -15 degrees celsius at 0,7 and 6 degrees at 1 ).

Math errors. Logic error. False equivalence fallacy.
Xadoman wrote:
The incoming energy stream from the sun is approximately known and from that the average temperature of the surface of the earth could be calculated using Boltzmann law.

The Stefan-Boltzmann does not calculate temperature.
Xadoman wrote:
I myself would guesstimate a real average somewhere around 0. -15 seems too low for me but maybe it indeed could be right. I am not so good with numbers, that is why I turn to math guys like IBdaMann, who could easily help me out with this. I just want to hear your guesstimation.

Math errors. False equivalence fallacy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
02-05-2023 13:53
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(5734)
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach


IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD.

According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC

This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA

So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic?


It's time to dig up Joseph Mccarthey and show him TikTok, then duck.


Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
02-05-2023 20:29
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Xadoman wrote:
Not all that that IS absorbed is converted to thermal energy.


I know you have previously said that some gets stored in chemichal bonds but eventully I think all this energy will be released as heat. For example the cow eats grass. The grass contains this chemichally bonded energy from the sun but pretty soon it will be released as the cow decomposes the grass to heat up its body. Do not you agree?

Heat is not energy. Heat has no temperature.
You need to pay attention to the 2nd law of thermodynamics as well, which defines the concept of heat and gives it a direction.

Sunlight both makes and breaks chemical bonds. That is not thermal energy.
Sunlight can induce electrical current. That is not thermal energy.

Not all radiance from the Earth is due to the Stefan-Boltzmann law.
Not all sunlight striking the Earth is absorbed.
Not all sunlight that is absorbed results in thermal energy.

You cannot calculate the temperature of Earth. You cannot measure the temperature of Earth.
You cannot calculate the emissivity of Earth. You cannot measure the emissivity of Earth.

The Stefan-Boltzmann law is not used to calculate temperature.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
02-05-2023 20:30
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach
A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
02-05-2023 21:08
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(5734)
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach
A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Mine does, yours may be broken.


IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD.

According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC

This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA

So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic?


It's time to dig up Joseph Mccarthey and show him TikTok, then duck.


Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
03-05-2023 14:55
Xadoman
★★★★☆
(1036)
The Stefan-Boltzmann law is not used to calculate temperature


Stefan-Boltzmann is all about temperature. Temperature is even in 4-th power.

Here is the equation in plain sight for everybody to see:

W=j*T^4 (j=constant)


Energy in must equal energy out, this is the first law of thermodynamics. The amount that the sun sends towards us is approximately known. The surface area that is absorbing can be calculated since the radius of earth is known. Therefore the amount the earth must radiate can be directly calculated from it( total amount the earth absorbs must equal the amount that the earth emits. The surface area of earth is known since the radius of earth is known. The total amount the earth emits divided with the surface area of earth give the radiance. Simple as that ) The only thing which is not known is the exact emissivity of earth. It can be guessed since it ranges from 0-1.

Turns out that at emissivity=0.7, the surface of the earth should be on average at -15 degrees celsius. At emissivity=1 , the surface of the earth should be on average at 6 degrees celsius.

The -15 degree celsius average seems unbelievable to most people. Therefore they fall for the greenhouse gases scammers.

My question to IBdaMann was how to convince people that the -15 on average could be indeed the right approximate value for the average temperature for the surface of the earth.

The church of global warming stems from this belief that the surface of the earth can not be at -15 degrees celsius on average, although Stefan Boltzmann law gives this approximation.
03-05-2023 22:36
Xadoman
★★★★☆
(1036)
It seems I found and anwer:

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-long-life-could-survive-if-the-sun-went-out-2013-7?r=US&IR=T

Millions of years after that, our planet would reach a stable -400°, the temperature at which the heat radiating from the planet's core would equal the heat that the Earth radiates into space, explains David Stevenson, a professor of planetary science at the California Institute of Technology.



-400 degrees Farenheit is 33 Kelvin. That is what the planet s inner core is contributing to the planets radiance.


Now we can sum up the 33K( caused by the inner core)+255K( caused by the sun) and we get the overall 288K .


Do you agree with that, IBdaMann?
03-05-2023 23:16
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14537)
Xadoman wrote:Stefan-Boltzmann is all about temperature.

Incorrect. Stefan-Boltzmann is all about computing the RADIANCE of a body for which the TEMPERATURE is already known. RADIANCE = TEMPERATURE ^4 * other_neat_constants

Did you catch that? You already know the (absolute) temperature of the body, so you raise that temperature of the body to the 4th power, multiply by the SB_CONSTANT and by the measured EMISSIVITY_CONSTANT to calculate the unknown RADIANCE.

Independent Variable = TEMPERATURE
Dependent Variable = RADIANCE

Xadoman wrote:Energy in must equal energy out, this is the first law of thermodynamics.

Incorrect. Only in an equilibrium does Energy(In) = Energy(Out)

The first law of thermodynamics says that the total amount of energy remains the same. So if 40 Joules of energy that is outside the system were to enter the system, you still have 40 Joules of energy. However Energy(In) obviously does not equally Energy(out). 40 Joules entered and 0 Joules exited.

The temperature of the earth cannot be calculated without the earth's Emissivity value.
03-05-2023 23:56
Xadoman
★★★★☆
(1036)
Independent Variable = TEMPERATURE
Dependent Variable = RADIANCE



We can calculate the temperature if we know the radiance.

For example, in electronics, the Ohm s law . U is what is causing the current in a wire. I=U/R. That mean if we know the voltage and R, we can calculate the I. If we measure I, then we can calculate the U. Simple as that.
04-05-2023 01:34
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach
A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
04-05-2023 01:40
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Xadoman wrote:
The Stefan-Boltzmann law is not used to calculate temperature


Stefan-Boltzmann is all about temperature. Temperature is even in 4-th power.

The Stefan-Boltzmann law does not calculate temperature.
Xadoman wrote:
Here is the equation in plain sight for everybody to see:

W=j*T^4 (j=constant)

Not the Stefan-Boltzmann law. It is:
r = C * e * t^4 where 'r' is radiance in watts per square area, 'C' is a natural constant (that serves to convert the relation to our units of measurement), 'e' is a measure constant called 'emissivity' or how well a surface absorbs and radiates light, and 't' is temperature in deg K.

Xadoman wrote:
Energy in must equal energy out, this is the first law of thermodynamics. The amount that the sun sends towards us is approximately known. The surface area that is absorbing can be calculated since the radius of earth is known. Therefore the amount the earth must radiate can be directly calculated from it( total amount the earth absorbs must equal the amount that the earth emits. The surface area of earth is known since the radius of earth is known. The total amount the earth emits divided with the surface area of earth give the radiance. Simple as that ) The only thing which is not known is the exact emissivity of earth. It can be guessed since it ranges from 0-1.

Turns out that at emissivity=0.7, the surface of the earth should be on average at -15 degrees celsius. At emissivity=1 , the surface of the earth should be on average at 6 degrees celsius.

The -15 degree celsius average seems unbelievable to most people. Therefore they fall for the greenhouse gases scammers.

My question to IBdaMann was how to convince people that the -15 on average could be indeed the right approximate value for the average temperature for the surface of the earth.

The church of global warming stems from this belief that the surface of the earth can not be at -15 degrees celsius on average, although Stefan Boltzmann law gives this approximation.

It is not possible to measure the emissivity of Earth. It is not possible to measure or calculate the temperature of Earth. You are still ignoring:

* not all energy striking the Earth is absorbed.
* not all energy that is absorbed is converted to thermal energy.
* not all radiance is due to the Stefan-Boltzmann law.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
04-05-2023 01:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Xadoman wrote:
It seems I found and anwer:

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-long-life-could-survive-if-the-sun-went-out-2013-7?r=US&IR=T

Millions of years after that, our planet would reach a stable -400°, the temperature at which the heat radiating from the planet's core would equal the heat that the Earth radiates into space, explains David Stevenson, a professor of planetary science at the California Institute of Technology.



-400 degrees Farenheit is 33 Kelvin. That is what the planet s inner core is contributing to the planets radiance.


Now we can sum up the 33K( caused by the inner core)+255K( caused by the sun) and we get the overall 288K .


Do you agree with that, IBdaMann?

Radiance has no temperature.
Radiance is a surface phenomenon.
It is not possible to calculate or measure the temperature of the Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
04-05-2023 01:52
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Xadoman wrote:
Independent Variable = TEMPERATURE
Dependent Variable = RADIANCE



We can calculate the temperature if we know the radiance.

For example, in electronics, the Ohm s law . U is what is causing the current in a wire. I=U/R. That mean if we know the voltage and R, we can calculate the I. If we measure I, then we can calculate the U. Simple as that.

It is not possible to measure the radiance of Earth due to the Stefan-Boltzmann law.
It is not possible to measure the emissivity of Earth.
It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.

If you do not know 'U" or 'R', you cannot calculate 'I'.
(Minor point: In America and in most of Europe, the letter 'E' is used instead of 'U', which is short for 'electromotive force').

You do not know the temperature of Earth (or the value of 't'), since this is what you are attempting to calculate.
You do not know the emissivity of Earth (or the value of 'e').
You do not know the radiance due to the Stefan-Boltzmann law as opposed to radiance due to other means. You do not know the value of 'r'.

It is therefore not possible to calculate the value of 't'.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
04-05-2023 02:18
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(5734)
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach
A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Sure they do, you ought to get one, the Mercury is actually quite tasty, so they say anyway!


IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD.

According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC

This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA

So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic?


It's time to dig up Joseph Mccarthey and show him TikTok, then duck.


Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
04-05-2023 07:26
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach
A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
04-05-2023 13:00
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(5734)
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Xadoman wrote:I know that. In the article he calculates it based on the information of the incoming energy stream from the sun.

... which he cannot do without the earth's EMISSIVITY value.

The earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known.

He cannot reverse-engineer a guess of earth's TEMPERATURE.

I call it a guess because, as Into the Night mentioned, Stefan-Boltzmann calculates thermal RADIANCE of a body of known TEMPERATURE and known/measured EMISSIVITY. The earth's EMISSIVITY value would need to be know but it is not.

Xadoman wrote:It is approximately known how much energy falls on the surface of the earth( energy per m2)

First, you don't want ENERGY / M^2, you want POWER / M^2.

POWER / M^2 = RADIANCE

Second, the earth's EMISSIVITY value is not known. The only calculation that can be made is to assume an EMISSIVITY of 1.0 (pretend the earth is a perfect black body), calculate the earth's upper limit TEMPERATURE (substantially hotter than the moon's daytime surface) and state, with confidence, that the earth's average global value is "less than that."

One could then assume an EMISSIVITY value for the earth of 0.0 (pretend the earth is a white body), calculate the earth's lower limit TEMPERATURE of 0.0K, and state with confidence that the earth's average global temperature is "more than that."

That is about all that can be accomplished using the Stefan-Boltzmann law in that manner.

Xadoman wrote:Kirchoff s law is used in the calculations. Pin=Pout

This is your bad math ... because you apparently don't understand Kirchhoff's law.

Kirchhoff's law applies to EMISSIVITY (or to the absorptivity/radiativity of any substance at a given wavelength). The law states that absorptivity = radiativity, meaning that whatever a substance's absorptivity is for a given wavelength, its radiativity for that wavelength is equivalent. With respect to EMISSIVITY (which is over all wavelengths), the value represents both the absorptivity *and* the radiativity.


Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach
A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


So, is trolling for the attention that your mother denied you, your only talent? Thermometers measure temperatures, that is the only thing that they do actually, except to lame trolls like you, who live in their own World that they create for themselves in their dysfunctional mind.


IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD.

According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC

This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA

So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic?


It's time to dig up Joseph Mccarthey and show him TikTok, then duck.


Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
04-05-2023 20:53
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach
A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

So, is trolling...
Mantra 40a. SOL3


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
Edited on 04-05-2023 20:56
04-05-2023 21:48
SwanProfile picture★★★★★
(5734)
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Actually all one needs to determine the temperature of the Earth is a thermometer. LOL any three year old knows this

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach
A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

So, is trolling...
Mantra 40a. SOL3


Perhaps you need to learn about how a thermometer works and what they do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzZ6eqoa188


IBdaMann claims that Gold is a molecule, and that the last ice age never happened because I was not there to see it. The only conclusion that can be drawn from this is that IBdaMann is clearly not using enough LSD.

According to CDC/Government info, people who were vaccinated are now DYING at a higher rate than non-vaccinated people, which exposes the covid vaccines as the poison that they are, this is now fully confirmed by the terrorist CDC

This place is quieter than the FBI commenting on the chink bank account information on Hunter Xiden's laptop

I LOVE TRUMP BECAUSE HE PISSES OFF ALL THE PEOPLE THAT I CAN'T STAND.

ULTRA MAGA

"Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person who has nothing to eat." MOTHER THERESA OF CALCUTTA

So why is helping to hide the murder of an American president patriotic?


It's time to dig up Joseph Mccarthey and show him TikTok, then duck.


Now be honest, was I correct or was I correct? LOL
05-05-2023 04:06
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21945)
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Swan wrote:
It does for people that are not stupid like you

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Actually they are well tested and verified. Even you could use one, with a little training from your autistic coach
A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.


Mine does, yours may be broken.

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

Sure they do,...

A thermometer does not measure the temperature of the Earth.

So, is trolling...
Mantra 40a. SOL3

Perhaps...
Mantra 40a. SOL4


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
05-05-2023 09:29
Xadoman
★★★★☆
(1036)
Now we can sum up the 33K( caused by the inner core)+255K( caused by the sun) and we get the overall 288K .


Do you agree with that, IBdaMann?



Where are you, IBdaMann? Do you agree that the average temperature is the sum of internal and external heating? Do you agree, that the inner core contributes to the average surface temperature of earth?
Page 1 of 212>





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