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19-03-2021 11:13
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
You don't understand the protests of the 60's and 70's. You had to have been there. It was a time of conflicted minds, including mine. I was a military man in those days and didn't participate in protests.

I don't believe you. You can't have participated in the protests and been in the military at the same time.
keepit wrote:
I agreed with the structure of the govt and still do but i don't always agree with the politicians and that is my right. I protected that right and other rights.

BULL. You deny the Constitution of the United States.
keepit wrote:
The protests were mostly about the vietnam war, not very much the things you mentioned.

Vietnam is a proper noun. It is capitalized.
keepit wrote:
The things you mentioned are just a product of your own mind and the conflicts you perceive and project onto others.

Fallacy fallacy.
keepit wrote:
I don't know if i liked those days better than these days. Apples and oranges. I was so financially poor then but i guess it was good training because now i don't need much to be financially happy. I understood the hippie mind back then and now. It's funny, i hardly come across anyone nowadays that understands the hippie mentality. All in all, they were pretty good people.

They were (and still are) very selfish people. It was all about self gratification and **** any responsibility.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
19-03-2021 11:57
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1124)
Tom cruise did it in born on the 4th of july
19-03-2021 16:29
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9089)
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
Secondly, a very high percentage of the things i say on this website are misinterpreted.

Stupid... the word you are looking for here is 'stupid'.


Your account is being credited.

.
Attached image:


Edited on 19-03-2021 16:32
19-03-2021 18:30
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(2052)
duncan61 wrote:
Tom cruise did it in born on the 4th of july

Speaking of the 4th of July, the installed Prime Minister of the SODC has proclaimed that us Americans MIGHT be able to enjoy an outdoor barbecue on that day with a few other people (as long as we have all been good little boys and girls and have been vaccinated and follow all safety protocol)

**** him.
19-03-2021 18:31
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
Duncan,
I didn't participate in any protests ever. itn just said i did but he's just doing his thing.
19-03-2021 19:10
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3369)
I was born in 1963, so just a kid for most of it. We weren't rich, had just on B&W, 19" TV, which was tuned to News, or sports, while Dad was in the house. I did manage to scrounge up a color TV, and get it working, well really close anyway. But, soon as dad found out, it became his... Least we got to watch something else on the B&W for a while. And dad mellowed out some, on me messing with electronics. The hippies protested a lot more than the war. They didn't like anyone telling them what they couldn't, and could do. They didn't like paying for stuff, they didn't want to pay for, or understand why people didn't share, if they had more than they needed. Most people called it stealing.
19-03-2021 19:18
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
Harvey,
so you were born in 63 and at some age you could fix a tv and learn from walter cronkite the culture of the hippie generation. ???
My brother wrote a book that said at age 2 i threw him off a bridge into a river
(i was 4). He said this was a good thing because it taught him how to swim so that at age 2 he could sneak out of the house and swim out miles into the ocean at night. Good grief.
I guess you could have learned the hippie culture by living it during your teens but you don't seem to have any hippie culture in you any more.
Without the vietnam war to protest i think the other issues were too minor to carry on much protesting.
19-03-2021 19:59
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3369)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
so you were born in 63 and at some age you could fix a tv and learn from walter cronkite the culture of the hippie generation. ???
My brother wrote a book that said at age 2 i threw him off a bridge into a river
(i was 4). He said this was a good thing because it taught him how to swim so that at age 2 he could sneak out of the house and swim out miles into the ocean at night. Good grief.
I guess you could have learned the hippie culture by living it during your teens but you don't seem to have any hippie culture in you any more.
Without the vietnam war to protest i think the other issues were too minor to carry on much protesting.


The war was the hot topic of the time, since family and friends were being killed, or coming home in pieces. The hippy protesting the war, was really rubbing people grieving, in a bad way. Mostly, I think they just used the war to draw attention, so some would listen to the other garbage, which only appealed to other hippies. I started messing with electronics at 11 or 12. We weren't rich, so gadgets weren't going to happen, unless I could repair, or build something from salvaged parts. The color TV was sitting at the curb, summer before I started high school. Didn't even know it was color, until I messed with it for a while. Two tubes didn't light up, and replacing them got me a picture, not real good, but it wasn't black & white. Read everything I could find, tried everything suggested, played with dozens of adjustments, and eventually got a clear picture, though the colors were always a little off. Had to keep it hidden from mom and dad. Only working on it, when dad was at work, mom busy with chores.

That was pretty much how I did electronics for many years after. Savage something, try to fix it, or save all the parts I could. Took two years of electronics shop classes in high school, started on Electrical Engineering in college. At about 2 years in, realized it was the career I dreamed, salvaged the credits I could, filled in what I needed for an Associates Degree. Least some degree, would have some value, didn't really.
19-03-2021 21:10
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
It rubbed some the wrong way but protesting seemed liked a good idea to some.
I remember hearing about ronald reagan speaking at berkeley when he was gov. The students started to shout him down and he said,
"The people of california don't agree with you!". The student hollered, "We ARE the people of california!". It was an iconic moment.
Some time later he fired all the air traffic controllers. I wasn't a controller but i never forgave him for that. A friend of mine worked L.A. approach control.
Edited on 19-03-2021 21:12
19-03-2021 21:41
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9089)
keepit wrote:The student [bused in with the rent-a-crowd from out-of-state] hollered, "We ARE the people of california!".

I'm sure it was an ironic moment.

keepit wrote: I wasn't a controller but i never forgave [Reagan] for that [because he was a Republican].

I get it. Reagan was an ardent supporter of liberty while you grovel at the feet of government, worshiping its omnipotence and its inerrancy.

keepit wrote: A friend of mine worked L.A. approach control.

In order for me to believe this I would have to believe that you have friends.

I'm going to have to think about that one.

.
19-03-2021 22:40
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
gfm7175 wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Tom cruise did it in born on the 4th of july

Speaking of the 4th of July, the installed Prime Minister of the SODC has proclaimed that us Americans MIGHT be able to enjoy an outdoor barbecue on that day with a few other people (as long as we have all been good little boys and girls and have been vaccinated and follow all safety protocol)

**** him.


...and that'll get ignored.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
19-03-2021 22:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
Duncan,
I didn't participate in any protests ever. itn just said i did but he's just doing his thing.

You claimed you did, now you claimed you didn't. Make your mind, dude.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
19-03-2021 22:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
so you were born in 63 and at some age you could fix a tv and learn from walter cronkite the culture of the hippie generation. ???
My brother wrote a book that said at age 2 i threw him off a bridge into a river
(i was 4). He said this was a good thing because it taught him how to swim so that at age 2 he could sneak out of the house and swim out miles into the ocean at night. Good grief.
I guess you could have learned the hippie culture by living it during your teens but you don't seem to have any hippie culture in you any more.
Without the vietnam war to protest i think the other issues were too minor to carry on much protesting.


Why would anyone want the hippie culture?? A bunch of self centered ****s that spent much of their time drugged out.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
19-03-2021 22:51
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
It rubbed some the wrong way but protesting seemed liked a good idea to some.
I remember hearing about ronald reagan speaking at berkeley when he was gov. The students started to shout him down and he said,
"The people of california don't agree with you!". The student hollered, "We ARE the people of california!". It was an iconic moment.
Some time later he fired all the air traffic controllers. I wasn't a controller but i never forgave him for that. A friend of mine worked L.A. approach control.


Reagan did the right thing. He busted the ATC union. ATC is a lot safer now for it.
ATC itself was never in any real danger, since Reagan used military controllers in critical places.

it was far less of a blip on air traffic than 9/11 was.
A typical arrogant Berkeley student act. Pretending he represented and spoke for all the people of California. What a jerk.

You must be from Berkeley. Tell me. Were YOU that jerk?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 19-03-2021 22:53
19-03-2021 23:40
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★★
(2052)
Into the Night wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Tom cruise did it in born on the 4th of july

Speaking of the 4th of July, the installed Prime Minister of the SODC has proclaimed that us Americans MIGHT be able to enjoy an outdoor barbecue on that day with a few other people (as long as we have all been good little boys and girls and have been vaccinated and follow all safety protocol)

**** him.


...and that'll get ignored.

It's definitely getting ignored by me, that's for damn sure. I've already been ignoring such dictates and will continue to ignore them. I will be gathering at my grandma's house with other family members, per usual. I might even gather with friends the day before...

**** Biden.
19-03-2021 23:53
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
I didn't go to berkeley.
The controllers' issue was about the contollers. Controller's lives matter.
I didn't say i participated in protests. I didn't participate.
I'm not sure if military controllers are better than civilian controllers.
20-03-2021 03:45
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9089)
keepit wrote: Controller's lives matter.

... but not the lives of pilots and of their passengers.

Why do you hate travelers, keepit? Why do you not care if they die?


keepit wrote: I didn't say i participated in protests.

You support those who would flagrantly put travelers lives in jeopardy. You probably have a strong, hearty laugh at the thought.


keepit wrote: I'm not sure if military controllers are better than civilian controllers.

Military controllers receive additional training that is not applicable in civilian settings for which their training is otherwise identical.

In civilian circumstances, the controllers' job is to keep aircraft separated. In military circumstances, their job is to keep them together. Note: this is one example of basic information you just aren't going to find in a Google search.

.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 20-03-2021 03:46
20-03-2021 04:34
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
Almost everything you say regarding me is false.
20-03-2021 06:20
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9089)
keepit wrote:Almost everything you say regarding me is false.

Everything I say about you MUST be completely TRUE owing to your complete inability to specify any way in which I am mistaken.

For example, you never forgave Reagan for stepping in and enforcing safety of flight. You want people to die. You HATE people.

Hey, each individual is entitled to his own opinion, even pieces of sschít.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-03-2021 11:11
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1124)
I have to ask Keepit.You know they are going to belt you.
20-03-2021 12:49
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
Duncan,
The facts are there to analyze.
I just like to present a brief case for whatever issue i want to address.
This is a good example which offers the chance for the reader to make his or her own judgement.
In this case i happen to know more of the history because my good friend was involved (he'd actually been discharged from his job as air traffic controller just prior to the strike but that's another story). The firing wasn't about safety. Rather it was about pay and working conditions. To claim they were fired because of safety is bogus. The system at the time was dangerous because of overworking of the controllers but that wasn't in the control of the controllers (no pun intended). To fire the union workers over a labor dispute and replace them with inexperienced controllers was the definite safety threat (no accidents happened as a result however, thank goodness).
ibd hammered himself with his bogus case and reagan was wrong. You judge for yourself.
The us isn't a dictatorship and the us isn't ruled by people, it's ruled by laws. Trump is finding that out. Too bad, he did some good things but he had a dictatorial style. Reagan also did some good things. For example he was in charge when the berlin wall fell. Hooray.
20-03-2021 17:25
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9089)
keepit wrote:Duncan, The facts are there to analyze.

If the facts were actually there then you would be able list them all. You are probably lying again just because of that hate streak in you.

keepit wrote: just like to present a brief case for whatever issue i want to address.

Which, of course, doesn't include any facts.

keepit wrote:This is a good example which offers the chance for the reader to make his or her own judgement.

Actually, you mean this is a good example which offers the chance for the reader to make a purely random selection based on zero information.

keepit wrote:In this case i happen to know more of the history because my good friend was involved

Your friend is not you; he is a different person. Your friend was in the know, not you.

keepit wrote:(he'd actually been discharged from his job [for incompetence and for endangering air travelers] as air traffic controller just prior to the strike but that's another story).

This is why the two of you got along so well, i.e. you both hate air travelers. It's a good thing he was fired and that you were never an air traffic controller.

keepit wrote:The firing wasn't about safety. Rather it was about pay and working conditions.

The EMPLOYER provides both of those you moron. No employee is fired for what the employer provides. You just confessed to being gullible and stupid.

... and you HATE people simply for daring to travel by air.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-03-2021 19:39
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
Duncan,
ibd's grade school arguments and credibility speak for them selves.
20-03-2021 20:44
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
I didn't go to berkeley.

I believe you. You can't seem to grasp English. Berkeley is a proper noun. It is capitalized.
keepit wrote:
The controllers' issue was about the contollers. Controller's lives matter.

No one was killing controllers. Get a grip.
keepit wrote:
I didn't say i participated in protests. I didn't participate.

Then stop saying you participated in protests. Make up your mind.
keepit wrote:
I'm not sure if military controllers are better than civilian controllers.

Irrelevant comparison.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
20-03-2021 20:45
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9089)
keepit wrote:Duncan, ibd's grade school arguments and credibility speak for them selves.

Duncan, keepit's dropout-level of education speaks for itself.

Just within the few previous posts of this thread keepit bungled basic English:

1: Controller's lives matter. (the apostraphe goes outside the "s")
2. I didn't say i participated in protests. ("I" needs to be upper case)
3. It rubbed some the wrong way but protesting seemed liked a good idea to some. The second word "some" needs to be the word "others."
4. "We ARE the people of california!". Again on the upper case
5. Some time later he fired all the air traffic controllers. The pronoun "he" needs to be its antecedent "Reagan" because keepit was talking about a bused-in student from out of state in that context and the student did not fire all the air traffic controllers.
6. I wasn't a controller but i never forgave him for that. Once again we have missing capitalization and without the "Reagan" antecedent keepit is saying that he will never forgive the bused-in "student."
7. you could fix a tv and learn from walter cronkite ... We get it, keepit never learned the rules for upper case.
8. i threw him off a bridge into a river (i was 4). Upper case again
9. Without the vietnam war to protest i think ... Upper case again
10. itn just said i did ... Upper case again

It would be one thing if keepit were butchering English grammar to ultimately make some sort of valid point, but he rarely says anything meaningful and never (except for one time by sheer luck) says anything that is correct.

Perhaps his bitterness and hatred for humanity stems from his profound, across-the-board ignorance. Who can truly say?

.
Attached image:

20-03-2021 20:52
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
IBdaMann wrote:
keepit wrote: Controller's lives matter.

... but not the lives of pilots and of their passengers.

Bingo. The controllers walked out. They were on strike. Reagan fired them all instead. Airlines had to treat each airport as a non-controlled field. This slows traffic down immensely.
IBdaMann wrote:
Why do you hate travelers, keepit? Why do you not care if they die?

That's primarily up to the pilot, not the controller.
IBdaMann wrote:
keepit wrote: I didn't say i participated in protests.

You support those who would flagrantly put travelers lives in jeopardy. You probably have a strong, hearty laugh at the thought.

That he does.
keepit wrote: I'm not sure if military controllers are better than civilian controllers.

Military controllers receive additional training that is not applicable in civilian settings for which their training is otherwise identical.[/quote]
Their training differs in a number of ways.
IBdaMann wrote:
In civilian circumstances, the controllers' job is to keep aircraft separated. In military circumstances, their job is to keep them together. Note: this is one example of basic information you just aren't going to find in a Google search.

Actually, in both cases the job of the controller is to keep aircraft moving, and to help organize flow around an airport (or airbase). The AWACS service also helps to identify the location of enemy aircraft, guiding our aircraft to them if necessary.

It is the pilot's job to separate aircraft. No one else. The controller is really just an extra pair of eyes. Any pilot can override a controller clearance to maintain safety of the aircraft. The pilot, and only the pilot, is responsible for the safety of that aircraft.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
20-03-2021 20:53
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
Almost everything you say regarding me is false.

Void argument fallacy. You aren't saying anything.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
20-03-2021 21:12
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
Duncan,
The facts are there to analyze.

So far you haven't mentioned any. Void argument fallacy.
keepit wrote:
I just like to present a brief case for whatever issue i want to address.
This is a good example which offers the chance for the reader to make his or her own judgement.

Readers make judgements anyway. They don't need your permission.
keepit wrote:
In this case i happen to know more of the history because my good friend was involved (he'd actually been discharged from his job as air traffic controller just prior to the strike but that's another story).

Any air traffic controller not willing to do his job should be fired.
keepit wrote:
The firing wasn't about safety. Rather it was about pay and working conditions. To claim they were fired because of safety is bogus.

They were fired because they went on strike. They walked out.
keepit wrote:
The system at the time was dangerous because of overworking of the controllers but that wasn't in the control of the controllers (no pun intended).

No one is forcing anyone to work air traffic control.
keepit wrote:
To fire the union workers over a labor dispute and replace them with inexperienced controllers

Military controllers are experienced. Controllers that were hired to replace striking controllers were experienced and properly trained. You are full of BS.
keepit wrote:
was the definite safety threat (no accidents happened as a result however, thank goodness).

The strike was a definite safety threat. Reagan fired them. He did the right thing.
keepit wrote:
ibd hammered himself with his bogus case and reagan was wrong.

Assumption of victory fallacy. Learn English. Reagan is a proper noun. It is capitalized.
keepit wrote:
You judge for yourself.

I have. I was a pilot during that time. Reagan did the right thing.
keepit wrote:
The us isn't a dictatorship

There is no United States anymore. The federal government has fallen. It is currently an oligarchy (dictatorship by committee).
keepit wrote:
and the us isn't ruled by people, it's ruled by laws.

There is no United States anymore.
keepit wrote:
Trump is finding that out.

Finding what out? That Democrats hate his guts because Trump stands up for the Constitution of the United States?
keepit wrote:
Too bad, he did some good things but he had a dictatorial style.

No, he had a deal making style. It's just what the nation needed.
keepit wrote:
Reagan also did some good things.

That he did.
keepit wrote:
For example he was in charge when the berlin wall fell. Hooray.

Berlin is a proper noun. It is capitalized.

Apparently you don't know what a dictatorship is. You don't know what an oligarchy is. You don't recognize the Constitution of the United States nor any State constitution. You also deny history. Trump violated no part of the Constitution of the United States. Democrats have completely discarded it.

It is Democrats that support censorship.
It is Democrats that support banning religions.
It is Democrats that support implementing state religions.
It is Democrats that want to take away guns.
It is Democrats that want to snoop on your private affairs.
It is Democrats that want to convict you without trial.
It is Democrats that want to overrule the States.
It is Democrats that are racist.
It is Democrats that are bigots.
It is Democrats that fund and support violent factions like the KKK, Antifa, and BLM.
It is Democrats involved in one sex scandal after another.
It is Democrats involved in graft.
It is Democrats that stole the gold and silver from the population.
It is Democrats that want to put more people on welfare.


Get...a...clue.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
20-03-2021 21:13
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
Duncan,
ibd's grade school arguments and credibility speak for them selves.

Childish remark. Grow up.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
20-03-2021 21:21
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
Baloney.
20-03-2021 21:44
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3369)
keepit wrote:
Duncan,
ibd's grade school arguments and credibility speak for them selves.


Completely acceptable, under Biden's nanny-state administration...
20-03-2021 22:12
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9089)
Into the Night wrote:Their training differs in a number of ways.

Sure, and those differences are all based on the context of the circumstance. If you take an (US) Air Force controller and have him help at a civilian airport, after a basic orientation for that airport he would be helping out following all the civilian rules.

The reverse cannot happen because civilian controllers do not receive the training required to support military sorties, formations and missions.

As part of the Air Expeditionary transformation, US Air Force controllers are trained to provide assistance to civilian airports in many countries around the world in many different theaters as the mission requires. The Air Force also has mobile airport "packages" that enable the Air Force to establish an airport in any remote location anywhere in the world for both military and civilian traffic as required, and Air Force controllers are trained specifically in that equipment so as to be ready to be deployed/dispatched to control any airspace as needed.

Other military services get some training in these packages but the Air Force owns them and the Air Force is the military's executive agent for air traffic control in any given theater.

Into the Night wrote: Actually, in both cases the job of the controller is to keep aircraft moving, and to help organize flow around an airport (or airbase).

Technically, the job of the ATC is to assist pilots (who control all aspects of their respective aircrafts). Ground control, which is technically separate but run together with ATC, is responsible for being the ground cop. Pilots don't get to jump ahead in line on taxi.

Into the Night wrote:The AWACS service also helps to identify the location of enemy aircraft, guiding our aircraft to them if necessary.

I have an AWACS story for you that will require you to recall the Clinton-era Blackhawk shootdown over Iraq. The bottom line is that MANY generals and senior-level officials screwed up when they patch-worked the system/process in place in Iraq and they left the door open for exactly this kind of catastrophe. Rather than all of them accepting their share in the responsibility, they agreed to make Capt Wang the fall guy until it all blew over. This problem was HUGE and exposed major negligence across the services all the way up the chain and there were just too many high-ranking people involved that they just "had" to go with throwing one junior officer under the bus in the hopes that it would fool everyone.

I know Jim Wang and I talked about this with him when I ran into him while he was being "retrained." Imagine being called into an office and being told that you have been chosen to be the recipient of all the schitt that is hitting the fan. Imagine being told that everyone knows you were just following the procedure you were told to follow ... to the letter ... which is why you will most likely be acquitted at your court-martial, and not to worry about being decertified and booted from your specialty because the Air Force will quietly slide you into a different specialty and none of this will be reflected in your evaluation.

Capt Wang was retrained to be a Communications officer after being acquitted at his court-matial. Try as you may, you will not recall any other names emerging as being responsible. Can you say "cover up"?

Into the Night wrote: It is the pilot's job to separate aircraft.

Not quite. It's the pilot's job to keep his aircraft safely separated from the others and the ATC is there to support him in that effort. Negligence on the part of the ATC could have disastrous results for any given pilot(s).

Yes, in uncontrolled airspace the pilots (collectively) are responsible for following protocols to ensure all traffic continues safely, like drivers at a four-way intersection with the signal out. It's up to them to not get themselves killed.

In controlled airspace, the traffic signals are working and the drivers rely on them to not be green in cross directions at the same time.

Into the Night wrote: Any pilot can override a controller clearance to maintain safety of the aircraft. The pilot, and only the pilot, is responsible for the safety of that aircraft.

That's a fact, Jack.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-03-2021 22:53
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
Let's talk about the numbers. At the time of the strike there was a fixed number of controllers, the majority of them civilian. Then you fire the civilians and leave ATC to new hires and military controllers. Obviously the capabilities of ATC will diminish to a certain extent. The air traffic in the us was slowed for several months after this until every one got up to speed. Fortunately there were no accidents during this time.
A funny story about my friend the L.A. approach control controller. He had been retired from the FAA with a mental discharge just before the strike. They said he was "crazy". Then when the FAA started scrambling for replacements they called him and asked him to return part time to help out. He asked them, "If i return part time will i still get my retirement pay?" They said, "No." He said, "Well then, i'd have to be "crazy" to return." This from a guy they had labeled as "crazy". He was a great guy, part Indian and one of my best friends. He passed away about 25 years ago. Rest in peace friend.
Edited on 20-03-2021 22:54
20-03-2021 23:04
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
ibd,
Re: Captain Wang. I can't imagine any responsible adult being friends with the likes of you.
20-03-2021 23:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
Baloney.

Childish remark. Grow up.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
20-03-2021 23:11
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
IBdaMann wrote:
Into the Night wrote:Their training differs in a number of ways.

Sure, and those differences are all based on the context of the circumstance. If you take an (US) Air Force controller and have him help at a civilian airport, after a basic orientation for that airport he would be helping out following all the civilian rules.

The reverse cannot happen because civilian controllers do not receive the training required to support military sorties, formations and missions.

As part of the Air Expeditionary transformation, US Air Force controllers are trained to provide assistance to civilian airports in many countries around the world in many different theaters as the mission requires. The Air Force also has mobile airport "packages" that enable the Air Force to establish an airport in any remote location anywhere in the world for both military and civilian traffic as required, and Air Force controllers are trained specifically in that equipment so as to be ready to be deployed/dispatched to control any airspace as needed.

Other military services get some training in these packages but the Air Force owns them and the Air Force is the military's executive agent for air traffic control in any given theater.

Into the Night wrote: Actually, in both cases the job of the controller is to keep aircraft moving, and to help organize flow around an airport (or airbase).

Technically, the job of the ATC is to assist pilots (who control all aspects of their respective aircrafts). Ground control, which is technically separate but run together with ATC, is responsible for being the ground cop. Pilots don't get to jump ahead in line on taxi.

Actually, they do. They might get ratted out for it by a controller, but the pilot is responsible for the operation of that aircraft. There are times when it's perfectly legitimate to cut in front another aircraft, even when taxiing. Yes...emergencies can and do happen even before an airplane leaves the ground.
IBdaMann wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The AWACS service also helps to identify the location of enemy aircraft, guiding our aircraft to them if necessary.

I have an AWACS story for you that will require you to recall the Clinton-era Blackhawk shootdown over Iraq. The bottom line is that MANY generals and senior-level officials screwed up when they patch-worked the system/process in place in Iraq and they left the door open for exactly this kind of catastrophe. Rather than all of them accepting their share in the responsibility, they agreed to make Capt Wang the fall guy until it all blew over. This problem was HUGE and exposed major negligence across the services all the way up the chain and there were just too many high-ranking people involved that they just "had" to go with throwing one junior officer under the bus in the hopes that it would fool everyone.

I know Jim Wang and I talked about this with him when I ran into him while he was being "retrained." Imagine being called into an office and being told that you have been chosen to be the recipient of all the schitt that is hitting the fan. Imagine being told that everyone knows you were just following the procedure you were told to follow ... to the letter ... which is why you will most likely be acquitted at your court-martial, and not to worry about being decertified and booted from your specialty because the Air Force will quietly slide you into a different specialty and none of this will be reflected in your evaluation.

Capt Wang was retrained to be a Communications officer after being acquitted at his court-matial. Try as you may, you will not recall any other names emerging as being responsible. Can you say "cover up"?

Into the Night wrote: It is the pilot's job to separate aircraft.

Not quite. It's the pilot's job to keep his aircraft safely separated from the others and the ATC is there to support him in that effort. Negligence on the part of the ATC could have disastrous results for any given pilot(s).

Yes, in uncontrolled airspace the pilots (collectively) are responsible for following protocols to ensure all traffic continues safely, like drivers at a four-way intersection with the signal out. It's up to them to not get themselves killed.

In ALL airspace.
IBdaMann wrote:
In controlled airspace, the traffic signals are working and the drivers rely on them to not be green in cross directions at the same time.


Nope. Still up to the pilots, and ONLY the pilots.
ATC only assists.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
20-03-2021 23:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
Let's talk about the numbers.

I don't care to talk about your random numbers.
keepit wrote:
At the time of the strike there was a fixed number of controllers, the majority of them civilian.

Very few. They were on strike. There were very few controllers on the job.
keepit wrote:
Then you fire the civilians and leave ATC to new hires and military controllers.

Reagan fired the striking controllers. They walked away from their posts. Reagan did the right thing.
keepit wrote:
Obviously the capabilities of ATC will diminish to a certain extent.

it was already diminished BECAUSE OF THE STRIKE idiot.
keepit wrote:
The air traffic in the us was slowed for several months after this until every one got up to speed. Fortunately there were no accidents during this time.

Yes there were.
keepit wrote:
A funny story about my friend the L.A. approach control controller. He had been retired from the FAA with a mental discharge just before the strike.

It happens. It still does.
keepit wrote:
They said he was "crazy".

No. a mental discharge is not a definition of 'crazy'.
keepit wrote:
Then when the FAA started scrambling for replacements they called him and asked him to return part time to help out. He asked them, "If i return part time will i still get my retirement pay?" They said, "No."

The union was busted. They provided the retirement pay.
keepit wrote:
He said, "Well then, i'd have to be "crazy" to return."

So he quit. Fine.
keepit wrote:
This from a guy they had labeled as "crazy".

A mental discharge is not a definition of 'crazy'.
keepit wrote:
He was a great guy, part Indian and one of my best friends.

Probably best he got out of that stress. Sounds like he couldn't handle it.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
20-03-2021 23:22
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
ibd,
Re: Captain Wang. I can't imagine any responsible adult being friends with the likes of you.

Childish remark. Grow up.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
20-03-2021 23:59
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
A lot of misinterpretations itn, and i'm using a polite word although i don't know why.

He wasn't crazy and he wasn't stressed.
Edited on 21-03-2021 00:17
21-03-2021 00:27
James___
★★★★★
(4480)
keepit wrote:
A lot of misinterpretations itn, and i'm using a polite word although i don't know why.

He wasn't crazy and he wasn't stressed.



Most of these guys must have miserable lives.
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