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Tesla recalls nearly 54,000 cars because self-driving software runs stop signs


Tesla recalls nearly 54,000 cars because self-driving software runs stop signs02-02-2022 08:27
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4259)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-recall-2022-self-driving-software-rolling-stop-54000-vehicles/

Aren't rolling stops only legal in California? It's a long article, and several other bad idea, fun features, which had to be correct or removed. The screwed up part, is that there are 54,000 volunteer beta tester, who received basically no training. Just accepted the software upgrade. This is just one car company, looking to make self-driving cars a reality. Kind of surprised there aren't viral videos on social media of people doing stupid, while testing out their self-driving cars...

These cars ain't cheap. If these liberals can be bothered, to actually drive themselves, they could hire a ride. What happens when somebody sends a malicious upgrade out, and intentionally screws up the cars? Or people start hacking in, and enable features, or add their own?
02-02-2022 22:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18679)
No amount of testing will ever be enough for a self driving car.

No matter what, sooner or later some situation will occur that was not tested. It is not possible to test everything. That's like trying to find the Equation of the Universe.

Unusual situations, such as inclement weather, road construction that is badly signed, an accident or debris on the roadway that is not signed at all, lane markers that are non-existent (popular around Michigan!), bad lighting, etc.

Then, of course, is the problem you mentioned, software security, including the update ports. Microsoft, for example, has had it's update port hacked a long time ago. It is possible for a hacker to install their version of Windows (or anything else!) with ring zero access (full hardware access, even beyond Administrator...better than even root!). Usually, the Windows machine properly 'phones home' for it's updates, but there is a window of opportunity for a man in the middle attack to insert their own update instead. This problem also affects the Xbox (xbox360, xbox1, and xboxX1 (the triple X box)).

Nintendo has had it's hacks also. People have already hacked the controller interface to the game console, allowing use of their controllers with any PC software, and hacked the games themselves, inserting their own content to games like Breath of the Wild, where Shrek is substituted for the Hynox, for example, or substituting Buzz Lightyear for Link.

Anything that uses a radio to control something like a car has an open avenue of attack. Even the computerized door locks are often a joke. It is well known among thieves how to open the password locked doors on a Ford Escalade, for example.

Self driving cars are particularly troublesome, simple because all it takes is a single accident involving a death for the lawsuits to fly, should the accident be caused by a software fault. Auto manufactures getting into this sort of thing will be sued out of existence. There is no driver, the the cause of the accident is the company making the software. That's where the lawsuit will go.

Once that happens, ANY accident involving a self driving car will involve a lawsuit, whether the software is a fault or not.

Driver assist systems, on the other hand, are perfectly fine. The driver is still responsible for the safe operation of the car, and the driver is to blame for any accident he causes. Driver assist systems take some of the fatigue out of driving, but still leave the driver firmly in control of the vehicle.

There are NO self driving cars being sold today. Tesla is already facing some lawsuit issues concerning their driver assist system it has since people tend to use it as a 'self driving car'. Tesla has warned their customer base about this, but people still do it.

The problem is that you can give a route to your Tesla on the freeway and it will drive you there. It does NOT handle unusual situations or bad weather, but it can handle maneuvering on the freeway including changing lanes pretty well (as long as conditions are good). The problem is that people use this to 'self drive' the car, despite Tesla's warnings.

Driver assist systems such as lane centering (even in corners) and cruise follower mode are very useful. You don't have to put continuous pressure on the wheel to stay in your lane. The car will 'center up' to follow the lane instead of just going straight. Sure, it has it's problems, particularly on badly painted exit frogs, but it works well enough to take a lot of fatigue out of driving, even on slanted roads.

Cruise follower mode is just like any cruise control, but it will reduce your speed automatically and match a car detected in front of you. For traffic that is constantly changing speeds, this works very well. The car will follow the car in front, and even stop if the car ahead stops. Following distance is enough for you to react yourself if the system fails at a critical time.

You can also, of course, just turn them off completely and just drive the car.

All cars sold today are FADEC. That means the engine is controlled by a computer. That computer as full authority over the fuel injector timing (it's all multipoint injection now), the timing of the ignition spark, and any cam advance timing.

Some software is better at it than others.

In Subaru or Toyota, for example, it's very reliable and even uses a contact microphone to listen for pinging, advancing as fast as it can to just before the pinging point.

In Ford, not so well. The ignition system is much weaker, and the design is such that carbon arcs are a real problem. There is no good detection for ignition problems such a missed ignition or pinging. Their electrical connectors are built with much worse quality too, giving false indications of the sensors for the computer, as the connectors fail over time.

Bosche systems (common to European cars) is horrid. These systems are prone to failure from current overload during normal operation, and not well insulated from the heat in the engine compartment, and quality control sucks.

FADEC computers typically do not have updates for them. They do have bugs though. In Subaru, for example, leaving the gas cap loose after a fill up will cause a evaporator canister fault (the computer cannot test the system to see if it can pull a vacuum, since the gas cap is open). Putting the gas cap back on properly will fix the vacuum leak, but the fault remains in the computer and can only be cleared by ODB2 command (any ODB2 tester can do this). The fault should've cleared automatically. Instead the fault stays. That's the bug. The computer will never test the system to see if it's working properly again until the fault is cleared by ODB2 command.
(A fault is the Engine light remaining on).

Little bugs like this are everywhere in any computer. One involving self driving capability (a very complex bit of software) is even more likely BECAUSE of the complexity of the software.

An engine control computer is inherently very simple. It has a simple job to do. Self driving capability is inherently very complex, involving multiple sensors and rapidly making decisions.

The more complex the software, the more bugs it will have.

In the computer engineering world, the old phrase KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) has a lot of value. Too many people ignore this.
03-02-2022 04:08
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4259)
The main problem, is there are too many that either don't have the attention span to drive, or impaired (lack of sleep, fatigue, drugs/alcohol), who will just use these features to compensate. Which means they'll be able to get behind the wheel, more messed up than ever before where they shouldn't have been driving in the first place. If you are too tired, or distracted to drive the car, it's unlikely you will be prepared to take control before there is a serious problem. If the car is doing a good job of driving for you, more people will just pull out the phone, and play. Hoping the car will alert them, if anything needs to be addressed. Since they aren't paying attention to the car, or the road, it will take seconds to catch up, figure what the car needs, and what's going on around them. The time it takes most of us to react and take appropriate measures to avoid an accident, and then some.
03-02-2022 07:48
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18679)
HarveyH55 wrote:
The main problem, is there are too many that either don't have the attention span to drive, or impaired (lack of sleep, fatigue, drugs/alcohol), who will just use these features to compensate.

Which means they'll be able to get behind the wheel, more messed up than ever before where they shouldn't have been driving in the first place. If you are too tired, or distracted to drive the car, it's unlikely you will be prepared to take control before there is a serious problem. If the car is doing a good job of driving for you, more people will just pull out the phone, and play. Hoping the car will alert them, if anything needs to be addressed. Since they aren't paying attention to the car, or the road, it will take seconds to catch up, figure what the car needs, and what's going on around them. The time it takes most of us to react and take appropriate measures to avoid an accident, and then some.


Makes no difference. Drunks drive already. Fatigued drivers drive already.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
03-02-2022 18:46
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(4259)
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
The main problem, is there are too many that either don't have the attention span to drive, or impaired (lack of sleep, fatigue, drugs/alcohol), who will just use these features to compensate.

Which means they'll be able to get behind the wheel, more messed up than ever before where they shouldn't have been driving in the first place. If you are too tired, or distracted to drive the car, it's unlikely you will be prepared to take control before there is a serious problem. If the car is doing a good job of driving for you, more people will just pull out the phone, and play. Hoping the car will alert them, if anything needs to be addressed. Since they aren't paying attention to the car, or the road, it will take seconds to catch up, figure what the car needs, and what's going on around them. The time it takes most of us to react and take appropriate measures to avoid an accident, and then some.


Makes no difference. Drunks drive already. Fatigued drivers drive already.


And more people will be encouraged to rely on the smart car, rather than get some sleep. Smart car is too expensive to leave parked in a bar parking lot...
03-02-2022 19:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(18679)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
The main problem, is there are too many that either don't have the attention span to drive, or impaired (lack of sleep, fatigue, drugs/alcohol), who will just use these features to compensate.

Which means they'll be able to get behind the wheel, more messed up than ever before where they shouldn't have been driving in the first place. If you are too tired, or distracted to drive the car, it's unlikely you will be prepared to take control before there is a serious problem. If the car is doing a good job of driving for you, more people will just pull out the phone, and play. Hoping the car will alert them, if anything needs to be addressed. Since they aren't paying attention to the car, or the road, it will take seconds to catch up, figure what the car needs, and what's going on around them. The time it takes most of us to react and take appropriate measures to avoid an accident, and then some.


Makes no difference. Drunks drive already. Fatigued drivers drive already.


And more people will be encouraged to rely on the smart car, rather than get some sleep. Smart car is too expensive to leave parked in a bar parking lot...

Why would they?
What has expense got to do with it?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
06-02-2022 02:00
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(835)
Bosch systems (common to European cars) is horrid. These systems are prone to failure from current overload during normal operation, and not well insulated from the heat in the engine compartment, and quality control sucks.

I am ready to make some sacrifieces on the reliability of the FADEC if the the car performs well. Here is a nice video of superior German engineering:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k62gW3Se5e0&ab_channel=fastgolfr32

That was a vw touareg v10 tdi which is a fine engine but my focus is on v12 tdi Audi q7 which makes 368 kw of power and 1000 NM of torque( v10 tdi makes 230kw and 750 NM ).
Edited on 06-02-2022 02:01




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