panama canal

keepit wrote:
A severe drought is limiting water availability to the canal. Every passage of a ship results in a large loss of water. This water is normally replaced by the gatun lake but the lake is drying up. Because of that , the number of ship passages must be limited and some ships now have to go around cape horn instead resulting in the production of a greater amount of co2. Obviously a snowballing effect. And on and on...

keepit wrote:
A severe drought is limiting water availability to the canal. Every passage of a ship results in a large loss of water. This water is normally replaced by the gatun lake but the lake is drying up. Because of that , the number of ship passages must be limited and some ships now have to go around cape horn instead resulting in the production of a greater amount of co2. Obviously a snowballing effect. And on and on...

keepit wrote: This water is normally replaced by the gatun lake but the lake is drying up.

keepit wrote: Because of that , the number of ship passages must be limited

keepit wrote: ... and some ships now have to go around cape horn instead resulting in the production of a greater amount of co2.

keepit wrote: Obviously a snowballing effect. And on and on...

keepit wrote:
Swan,
That was my thought as well, until i watched the article on you tube. There is some engineering reason they take it from the lake but i don't know what it is.

Swan wrote:

keepit wrote:
Swan,
That was my thought as well, until i watched the article on you tube. There is some engineering reason they take it from the lake but i don't know what it is.

The lake is a manmade freshwater lake, so adding salt water would change its ecosystem, however there is no engineering reason that seawater could not be added

keepit wrote: Swan, That was my thought as well, until i watched the article on you tube. There is some engineering reason they take it from the lake but i don't know what it is.

IBdaMann wrote:

keepit wrote: Swan, That was my thought as well, until i watched the article on you tube. There is some engineering reason they take it from the lake but i don't know what it is.

Both Swan and yourself are morons. The Pacific ocean and the caribbean sea are both at sea level. Neither is somehow higher than the other.

Gatún Lake, on the other hand, is about at 80 feet above sea level. Whenever a ship enters the canal, for it to get to Gatún, they have to open the locks which lets a bunch of water flow out from Gatún and into the locks. Same thing on the other side of the lake as the ship readies to exit the canal.

keepit wrote:
ibd,
You're right about the seas being at sea level. I think the thing is that when they extract water from gatun, that water goes out to sea and then for the next ship they have to extract more water. And on and on. It's kind of like when energy comes in at a certain pace but leaves at a slower pace, the temp goes up. In this case it is in reverse and gatun runs low on water and then they have limit the numbed of ships per day.

James_ wrote:

keepit wrote:
ibd,
You're right about the seas being at sea level. I think the thing is that when they extract water from gatun, that water goes out to sea and then for the next ship they have to extract more water. And on and on. It's kind of like when energy comes in at a certain pace but leaves at a slower pace, the temp goes up. In this case it is in reverse and gatun runs low on water and then they have limit the numbed of ships per day.

With the locks, they basically use gravity feed. This gets into what the rainforest is doing. The runoff from the rainforest is what feeds the Chagres River.
Then we can consider how healthy the Amazon rainforest is. That is the source for the Chagres River. How much water does that river need in order to support the canal?

It's wierd trying to remember what goes where (can't log on with my tablet). Then to make matters worse I'll probably need to go back to sleep.
At least now we know that to consider the canal we need to start with the rainforest. That might give us an idea if the canal can be supported in other ways. I think dinner is coming so I can have some more water.

Am logged in on my tablet. The Panamanian golden from if it comes first would limit the amount of water for the locks. This means that water needs to be pumped to the top lock.
And that water needs to be desalinated just like the water for Sustainable Farming. That is if it's going to empty into the lake. If the traffic is going to lower down to sea level then fresh water . This has conserving the wetlands the Panamanian golden frog lives in.
I think this is where with the war in the Middle East, drought at the equator and in the western U.S. This suggests that improving desalinization and moving water to where it's needed are high priority issues.

Swan wrote:

James_ wrote:

keepit wrote:
ibd,
You're right about the seas being at sea level. I think the thing is that when they extract water from gatun, that water goes out to sea and then for the next ship they have to extract more water. And on and on. It's kind of like when energy comes in at a certain pace but leaves at a slower pace, the temp goes up. In this case it is in reverse and gatun runs low on water and then they have limit the numbed of ships per day.

With the locks, they basically use gravity feed. This gets into what the rainforest is doing. The runoff from the rainforest is what feeds the Chagres River.
Then we can consider how healthy the Amazon rainforest is. That is the source for the Chagres River. How much water does that river need in order to support the canal?

It's wierd trying to remember what goes where (can't log on with my tablet). Then to make matters worse I'll probably need to go back to sleep.
At least now we know that to consider the canal we need to start with the rainforest. That might give us an idea if the canal can be supported in other ways. I think dinner is coming so I can have some more water.

Am logged in on my tablet. The Panamanian golden from if it comes first would limit the amount of water for the locks. This means that water needs to be pumped to the top lock.
And that water needs to be desalinated just like the water for Sustainable Farming. That is if it's going to empty into the lake. If the traffic is going to lower down to sea level then fresh water . This has conserving the wetlands the Panamanian golden frog lives in.
I think this is where with the war in the Middle East, drought at the equator and in the western U.S. This suggests that improving desalinization and moving water to where it's needed are high priority issues.

Did Alan teach you that?

Swan wrote: Moron time again ...

Swan wrote: ... as the Pacific sea level is higher than the Atlantic sea level, which is the entire reason for the locks in the first place.

keepit wrote: I think the thing is that when they extract water from gatun, that water goes out to sea and then for the next ship they have to extract more water. And on and on. ... In this case it is in reverse and gatun runs low on water and then they have limit the numbed of ships per day.

keepit wrote: It's kind of like when energy comes in at a certain pace but leaves at a slower pace, the temp goes up.

IBdaMann wrote:
keepit, this post keeps your error streak alive.

keepit wrote: I think the thing is that when they extract water from gatun, that water goes out to sea and then for the next ship they have to extract more water. And on and on. ... In this case it is in reverse and gatun runs low on water and then they have limit the numbed of ships per day.

You should have paid attention when I told you that Panamá doesn't turn away any ships. As a result, you posted a moronic comment. Panamá's income is important to the country, so they keep ships flowing through and make Panameños endure restrictions on their water supply. Panamá won't stop allowing ships through until Gatún runs dry.

Also, Panamá is required, by the Carter-Torrijos treaty, to allow all ships through.

keepit wrote: It's kind of like when energy comes in at a certain pace but leaves at a slower pace, the temp goes up.

Do you have any examples in mind?

James_ wrote: This is purely theoretical yet is possible that as the Amazon rainforest is burned, CO2 is emitted when before The Burning CO2 was absorbed.
Why does this matter? CO2 for the most part is evenly distributed in the atmosphere. When the Amazon rainforest is absorbing CO2 then that creates a flow of both CO2 and water vapor (H2O). And this process is what allowed for Lake Gatun and farmers/industry.

James_ wrote: And if the situation is properly understood then it might allow for a solution in which less of the rainforest is burned.

James_ wrote: Sustainable harvesting might do more to get people to work together.

IBdaMann wrote:

James_ wrote: Sustainable harvesting might do more to get people to work together.

No harvesting is sustainable. Once you've harvested the crops, you're done until the next season.

IBdaMann wrote:

Swan wrote: Moron time again ...

Thanks for the warning.

Swan wrote: ... as the Pacific sea level is higher than the Atlantic sea level, which is the entire reason for the locks in the first place.

That was the stupidest thing I've read this month. No, wait, I read some truly brain-dead crap on JPP. OK, you're off the hook for the moment.

The answer is no, the Pacific, the Atlantic and the Caribbean are all at the same level. It's how liquids work. Did your mother apologize for dropping you on your head?

Note: you should have asked an amphibious animal before posting something that would get you mocked by amphibious animals.

James_ wrote:
And yet the Pacific Ocean might be higher than the Atlantic Ocean because of how the Pacific tectonic plate is a straight drop down. With gravity it is based on r^2 and as the Moon creates high and low tides, can a change in the depth of the sea floor allow for a similar effect?

keepit wrote: oy vey ibd, you can do better than that..... can't you?

Swan wrote:Again the Pacific ocean is higher than the Atlantic, not that your brain can accept this

Swan wrote: Why are the oceans [17 cm] different elevations?

IBdaMann wrote:

Swan wrote:Again the Pacific ocean is higher than the Atlantic, not that your brain can accept this

Again, it is not ... not that your brain can accept this. It isn't physically possible, not that your brain can accept this.

Swan wrote: Why are the oceans [17 cm] different elevations?

Nobody has made such a measurement to any degree of accuracy to make your babbling valid.

If you are going to say that at times there are waves on the Pacific side that are 17cm higher than points on the Caribbean side, then fine, but you need to clarify that.

James_ wrote: With the question Sawn asked, was I right?

James_ wrote: I said because the Pacific tectonic plate seems to have "dropped/fallen" into the Earth.

James_ wrote: The source of gravity (the Earth) is further away.

James_ wrote: Then we get to ask what about g = Gm/r^2.

James_ wrote: And now we know Sawn is too smart to discuss basic math.

IBdaMann wrote:

James_ wrote: With the question Sawn asked, was I right?

The validity of your assertion depends upon whether the dropping of a tectonic plate equates to an increase in sea level at that point.

James_ wrote: I said because the Pacific tectonic plate seems to have "dropped/fallen" into the Earth.

Tectonic plates have very few options of into what they fall.

James_ wrote: The source of gravity (the Earth) is further away.

I'm going to have to think about this idea of sea level being a measure of distance below sea level.

James_ wrote: Then we get to ask what about g = Gm/r^2.

What if we forget to ask?

James_ wrote: And now we know Sawn is too smart to discuss basic math.

He just needs someone to nudge his brain and get it started. Ask him if amphibious animals are amphibians.

Swan wrote:

keepit wrote:
A severe drought is limiting water availability to the canal. Every passage of a ship results in a large loss of water. This water is normally replaced by the gatun lake but the lake is drying up. Because of that , the number of ship passages must be limited and some ships now have to go around cape horn instead resulting in the production of a greater amount of co2. Obviously a snowballing effect. And on and on...

LOL why wouldn't letting in water from the higher Pacific fix this in one day?

keepit wrote:
Swan,
That was my thought as well, until i watched the article on you tube. There is some engineering reason they take it from the lake but i don't know what it is.

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

keepit wrote: Swan, That was my thought as well, until i watched the article on you tube. There is some engineering reason they take it from the lake but i don't know what it is.

Both Swan and yourself are morons. The Pacific ocean and the caribbean sea are both at sea level. Neither is somehow higher than the other.

Gatún Lake, on the other hand, is about at 80 feet above sea level. Whenever a ship enters the canal, for it to get to Gatún, they have to open the locks which lets a bunch of water flow out from Gatún and into the locks. Same thing on the other side of the lake as the ship readies to exit the canal.

Moron time again as the Pacific sea level is higher than the Atlantic sea level, which is the entire reason for the locks in the first place.

LOL did your mother ever apologize for dropping you?

James_ wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

James_ wrote: Sustainable harvesting might do more to get people to work together.

No harvesting is sustainable. Once you've harvested the crops, you're done until the next season.

One side affect of climate policy is what's happening in Panama. If you save the Panamanian Golden Frog then you are promoting economic prosperity. Of course if I irrigate Montana (Sustainable Farming) that will be similar. The key difference
will be the people. What helped to point me in this direction.
With Sustainable Farming, that would be to support a minimal harvest. It'd help to offset the effects of drought while being ready to adapt to feed a growing population.
With the Amazon rainforest, they create a growth cycle. How many years will it take for the rainforest to return to its pre-harvest form? That would allow for harvesting so many acres each year. This then helps to protect the rest of the rainforest. And that could encourage the rains there to increase.
Then that would help the farmers/industry in Brazil while helping to improve the conditions in the wetlands that fed the Chargres River and now feeds Lake Galut and the Panama Canal.
And IBDaMann, I actually like this. If Sustainable Farming can help farmers in Montana, then how can sustainability benefit the area from Panama to Brazil?

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Swan wrote: Moron time again ...

Thanks for the warning.

Swan wrote: ... as the Pacific sea level is higher than the Atlantic sea level, which is the entire reason for the locks in the first place.

That was the stupidest thing I've read this month. No, wait, I read some truly brain-dead crap on JPP. OK, you're off the hook for the moment.

The answer is no, the Pacific, the Atlantic and the Caribbean are all at the same level. It's how liquids work. Did your mother apologize for dropping you on your head?

Note: you should have asked an amphibious animal before posting something that would get you mocked by amphibious animals.

Again the Pacific ocean is higher than the Atlantic, not that your brain can accept this

Swan wrote:
Why are the oceans different elevations?

Swan wrote:
Sea level is the base level for measuring elevation and depth on Earth.

Swan wrote:
Because the ocean is one continuous body of water, its surface tends to seek the same level throughout the world. However, winds, currents, river discharges, and variations in gravity and temperature prevent the sea surface from being truly level.

Swan wrote:
The surface of the Pacific Ocean stands about 40 cm higher than the Atlantic Ocean with respect to the 1000-decibar surface, and the North Atlantic and North Pacific stand respectively about 14 and 17 cm higher than the South Atlantic and Pacific.

James_ wrote:
And yet the Pacific Ocean might be higher than the Atlantic Ocean because of how the Pacific tectonic plate is a straight drop down. With gravity it is based on r^2 and as the Moon creates high and low tides, can a change in the depth of the sea floor allow for a similar effect?

Swan wrote:

James_ wrote:
And yet the Pacific Ocean might be higher than the Atlantic Ocean because of how the Pacific tectonic plate is a straight drop down. With gravity it is based on r^2 and as the Moon creates high and low tides, can a change in the depth of the sea floor allow for a similar effect?

LOL the Pacific plate is higher than the Atlantic which is what creates the California cliffs, but you knew that and are just testing me to fly your UFO, or is it UAP now?

Swan wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Swan wrote:Again the Pacific ocean is higher than the Atlantic, not that your brain can accept this

Again, it is not ... not that your brain can accept this. It isn't physically possible, not that your brain can accept this.

Swan wrote: Why are the oceans [17 cm] different elevations?

Nobody has made such a measurement to any degree of accuracy to make your babbling valid.

If you are going to say that at times there are waves on the Pacific side that are 17cm higher than points on the Caribbean side, then fine, but you need to clarify that.

How much higher is the Pacific than the Atlantic at the Panama Canal?

about 20 cm higher
Sea level is about 20 cm higher on the Pacific side than the Atlantic due to the water being less dense on average on the Pacific side and due to the prevailing weather and ocean conditions. Such sea level differences are common across many short sections of land dividing ocean basins.

Swan wrote:
The fact that your brain cant handle reality is not my problem, but your mother clearly should have fixed this by abortion

keepit wrote:
One of the cases of uneven sea levels is at the mouth of he amazon. At this point there is at times faster rate of inflow into the atlantic ocean than the rate of leveling. This is another case of differing rates of inflow vs outflow causing a build up of water, thermal energy or what ever

James_ wrote:
With the question Sawn asked, was I right?
I said because the Pacific tectonic plate seems to have "dropped/fallen"
into the Earth. The source of gravity (the Earth) is further away. Then we get to ask what about g = Gm/r^2.
And now we know Sawn is too smart to discuss basic math.

[url]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1961DSR.....7..265R/abstract&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj0up7jhZ-EAxXvkiYFHajxC5IQFnoECAwQBg&usg=AOvVaw1U0lzke89jeDJwrE0-RwzL
[/url]

Maybe Sawn would care to explain? I wouldn't want to take over his discussion.