New Federal Report, Approved by White House, Predicts 5C Rise by 2100

GreenMan wrote:
...deleted Holy Quote...
It also gave us some scary news about the future, with a 5C rise predicted by the end of this century. If that is 4C, because we have already risen 1C, then that works out to a rate of 0.5C/decade, which is almost triple what is currently is [0.15C/decade]. [cue Parrot to exclaim that nobody knows nuthun, past, current, or present] And that is surprising to me. I thought that it would continue on for quite some time, with this slow march to doom. But it looks like the ones who know say that it's going to speed up.

GreenMan wrote:
And that ain't good. For a lot of reasons. The biggest of which is the ocean. For an increase like that to take place, it means that the oceans are not expected to continue sinking as much heat as they currently are.

GreenMan wrote:
That makes sense, because as they warm up, they sink less heat.

GreenMan wrote:
But what happens to the things that live in the ocean, that are used to the temperature that they live in now?

GreenMan wrote:
What happens when they all start dying?

GreenMan wrote:
For one thing, it's going to stink like 9 hells, all over the world. And then staravation begins. And not just little pockets of starvation that the Red Cross can handle. Wide spread starvation, the world over.

GreenMan wrote:
And it's just getting started.

GreenMan wrote:
Those fires that are getting worse and worse each year, now.

GreenMan wrote:
They just keep getting worse and worse, until the Midwest is all desert again.

GreenMan wrote:
And all up the west coast will be gone.

GreenMan wrote:
Burned up and then washed into the ocean.

GreenMan wrote:
But that is way in the distant future.

GreenMan wrote:
Our generation just has to deal with things like making preparations for what's to come, or not. I think most will choose to do nothing, until they are faced with starvation, or homelessness. Of course, they will be totally screwed then, because if they have no resources to feed themselves, then they also have no resources to build a small farm.

GreenMan wrote:
I'm thinking that it is time for people to start seriously thinking about the survival of their families, in the long run. It's best to start thinking about it now, because there are a lot of obstacles that will have to be overcome, like how to sustain yourself financially. Even if you are able to grow your own food, and live totally off grid, you are still going to need some things from the store. And stores require good old money.

GreenMan wrote:
And where do you locate your retreat, or perhaps even your primary home? Is one location as good as any other? What about natural resources like clean running water, from a natural spring? How are you going to build your home, to insure that it survives a fire storm?

GreenMan wrote:
There are a lot of things to consider, and putting off thinking about it doesn't make sense anymore, because now we know that it's not a question of if it's going to happen. It is happening. It's really just a question of how much longer we have until the shit starts hitting the fan.

"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: Did you know that wildfire helps to fertilize the soil by returning nutrients to it?

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
...deleted Holy Quote...
It also gave us some scary news about the future, with a 5C rise predicted by the end of this century. If that is 4C, because we have already risen 1C, then that works out to a rate of 0.5C/decade, which is almost triple what is currently is [0.15C/decade]. [cue Parrot to exclaim that nobody knows nuthun, past, current, or present] And that is surprising to me. I thought that it would continue on for quite some time, with this slow march to doom. But it looks like the ones who know say that it's going to speed up.

The IPCC doesn't know anything. They are a political group that puts out propaganda That's where this latest 'scary news' is coming from.

GreenMan wrote:
And that ain't good. For a lot of reasons. The biggest of which is the ocean. For an increase like that to take place, it means that the oceans are not expected to continue sinking as much heat as they currently are.

Ocean temperatures vary widely across the globe and vary widely with depth. Perhaps you haven't noticed.

GreenMan wrote:
That makes sense, because as they warm up, they sink less heat.

Oceans are not a 'heat sink'. They absorb energy from the Sun, just like anywhere else. They also radiate energy back into space, just like anywhere else. They also heat the atmosphere, just like anywhere else.

GreenMan wrote:
But what happens to the things that live in the ocean, that are used to the temperature that they live in now?

Now come the predictions based on a heavily distorted view of ocean water and random numbers.

GreenMan wrote:
What happens when they all start dying?

What happens when your prediction turns out to be all wrong?

GreenMan wrote:
For one thing, it's going to stink like 9 hells, all over the world. And then staravation begins. And not just little pockets of starvation that the Red Cross can handle. Wide spread starvation, the world over.

I thought you said you only believed in one hell.

GreenMan wrote:
And it's just getting started.

What?

GreenMan wrote:
Those fires that are getting worse and worse each year, now.

Fires are not getting worse each year. Besides, fires actually help rejuvenate the land.

GreenMan wrote:
They just keep getting worse and worse, until the Midwest is all desert again.

Again? When was the midwest ever desert?

GreenMan wrote:
And all up the west coast will be gone.

Previous burns are producing abundantly. Did you know that wildfire helps to fertilize the soil by returning nutrients to it? Larger trees typically don't burn either. They can often weather the scorching heat and survive. The choking weeds, grass, brush, and younger trees are burned away. It's sort of like a natural form of thinning the forest. The surviving trees actually grow better.

GreenMan wrote:
Burned up and then washed into the ocean.

Wildfire burn areas don't get washed into the ocean. The soils is improved by the burn, plant growth is improved.

The two big wildfires on the west coast were up in B.C. Canada, in an area so rugged that it literally wasn't worth fighting them, and the Sonoma and Napa county fires, some of which went through Santa Rosa itself. That fire was caused by good growth conditions the previous spring, the usual summer heat that dried out that growth (grass), and poorly maintained power lines coming down in an offshore wind storm. If you want to blame anyone for that one, blame PG&E and the State government in Sacramento.

GreenMan wrote:
But that is way in the distant future.

Wildfires have been the way of the past, they will likely continue into the future.

GreenMan wrote:
Our generation just has to deal with things like making preparations for what's to come, or not. I think most will choose to do nothing, until they are faced with starvation, or homelessness. Of course, they will be totally screwed then, because if they have no resources to feed themselves, then they also have no resources to build a small farm.

Our ability to grow food improves with every year.

GreenMan wrote:
I'm thinking that it is time for people to start seriously thinking about the survival of their families, in the long run. It's best to start thinking about it now, because there are a lot of obstacles that will have to be overcome, like how to sustain yourself financially. Even if you are able to grow your own food, and live totally off grid, you are still going to need some things from the store. And stores require good old money.

You have to come out of your bunker to visit them too. Horrors!

GreenMan wrote:
And where do you locate your retreat, or perhaps even your primary home? Is one location as good as any other? What about natural resources like clean running water, from a natural spring? How are you going to build your home, to insure that it survives a fire storm?

Underground bunkers work best for that.

GreenMan wrote:
There are a lot of things to consider, and putting off thinking about it doesn't make sense anymore, because now we know that it's not a question of if it's going to happen. It is happening. It's really just a question of how much longer we have until the shit starts hitting the fan.

There is actually quite an effective demonstration of what happens when shit hits a fan.

Basically, the fan slows down dramatically, shakes slightly because of the uneven loading on the fan blades, and more or less quickly flings the stuff off. (They used wet shit). The remaining material leaves the blades unbalanced, so the fan continues to shake.

The movie 'Airport' used chocolate pudding, not real shit. Quite an effective joke, though. They had to make this take several times. The guy throwing the 'shit' kept missing the fan!

GreenMan wrote:
[quote]Michael Mann, director of the Earth System Science Center at Penn State said "This new report simply confirms what we already knew. Human-caused climate change isn't just a theory, it's reality. Whether we're talking about unprecedented heat waves, increasingly destructive hurricanes, epic drought and inundation of our coastal cities, the impacts of climate change are no longer subtle. They are upon us. That's the consensus of our best scientists, as laid bare by this latest report."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/federal-report-says-humans-cause-132700068.html

It also gave us some scary news about the future, with a 5C rise predicted by the end of this century. If that is 4C, because we have already risen 1C, then that works out to a rate of 0.5C/decade, which is almost triple what is currently is [0.15C/decade]. [cue Parrot to exclaim that nobody knows nuthun, past, current, or present] And that is surprising to me. I thought that it would continue on for quite some time, with this slow march to doom. But it looks like the ones who know say that it's going to speed up.

And that ain't good. For a lot of reasons. The biggest of which is the ocean. For an increase like that to take place, it means that the oceans are not expected to continue sinking as much heat as they currently are. That makes sense, because as they warm up, they sink less heat. But what happens to the things that live in the ocean, that are used to the temperature that they live in now? What happens when they all start dying? For one thing, it's going to stink like 9 hells, all over the world. And then staravation begins. And not just little pockets of starvation that the Red Cross can handle. Wide spread starvation, the world over.

And it's just getting started. Those fires that are getting worse and worse each year, now. They just keep getting worse and worse, until the Midwest is all desert again. And all up the west coast will be gone. Burned up and then washed into the ocean. But that is way in the distant future. Our generation just has to deal with things like making preparations for what's to come, or not. I think most will choose to do nothing, until they are faced with starvation, or homelessness. Of course, they will be totally screwed then, because if they have no resources to feed themselves, then they also have no resources to build a small farm.

I'm thinking that it is time for people to start seriously thinking about the survival of their families, in the long run. It's best to start thinking about it now, because there are a lot of obstacles that will have to be overcome, like how to sustain yourself financially. Even if you are able to grow your own food, and live totally off grid, you are still going to need some things from the store. And stores require good old money.

And where do you locate your retreat, or perhaps even your primary home? Is one location as good as any other? What about natural resources like clean running water, from a natural spring? How are you going to build your home, to insure that it survives a fire storm? There are a lot of things to consider, and putting off thinking about it doesn't make sense anymore, because now we know that it's not a question of if it's going to happen. It is happening. It's really just a question of how much longer we have until the shit starts hitting the fan.

"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner many time threatener wake-me-up" yipped: ..... has been shown...

litesong wrote:

"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner many time threatener wake-me-up" yipped: ..... has been shown...

"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner many time threatener wake-me-up" has been shown to be an old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner & many time threatener.

litesong wrote:

"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: Did you know that wildfire helps to fertilize the soil by returning nutrients to it?

Start a forest fire upwind of the house of "badnight". Next year, it can plant rich crops on the sector that used to have its house.

GreenMan wrote:
That report wasn't from the IPCC, dimwit.

GreenMan wrote:
It was from a group of scientists funded by the Federal Government of this fine country.

GreenMan wrote:
I guess you think all the scientists, IPCC affiliated or not, are out to get you.

GreenMan wrote:
And you call others paranoid.

GreenMan wrote:
You can make fun of people for looking to their own future if you want, but it just shows your maturity level.

GreenMan wrote:
Only a child would laugh at his own certain doom.

Wake wrote:
The same Dr. Michael Mann that has been shown to have counterfeited his data and is about to be found guilty of contempt of court in Canada for not producing his data so that it can be shown in a court of law that he has lied in his paper?

Forest fires occur more often? Than what? You open your stupid mouth without even bothering to look it up. Why am I not surprised?

Large fires are far less common than before because now they threaten humans who put them out. Is there anything in your mind at all? Lightning ignited prairie fires used to burn several states until the winter rains put them out. The largest California fires were 10 times larger than the most recent.

Ash is not "washed out to sea", it is washed into the ground were it fertilizes the grounds and has cleared away the underbrush. It generally does not kill trees but burns off the old non-productive leaves to allow newer and more productive growth.

I think you would spend you time better telling us exactly HOW you made a climate model. Not one single model has ever proven to be correct or even close and I want to see how you put one over on every scientist in the world without even basic mathematical skills in your quiver.

[b]Wake wrote: La-la-la-la-la. Blather blather blather and blather.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
...deleted Holy Quote...
It also gave us some scary news about the future, with a 5C rise predicted by the end of this century. If that is 4C, because we have already risen 1C, then that works out to a rate of 0.5C/decade, which is almost triple what is currently is [0.15C/decade]. [cue Parrot to exclaim that nobody knows nuthun, past, current, or present] And that is surprising to me. I thought that it would continue on for quite some time, with this slow march to doom. But it looks like the ones who know say that it's going to speed up.

The IPCC doesn't know anything. They are a political group that puts out propaganda That's where this latest 'scary news' is coming from.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And that ain't good. For a lot of reasons. The biggest of which is the ocean. For an increase like that to take place, it means that the oceans are not expected to continue sinking as much heat as they currently are.

Ocean temperatures vary widely across the globe and vary widely with depth. Perhaps you haven't noticed.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
That makes sense, because as they warm up, they sink less heat.

Oceans are not a 'heat sink'. They absorb energy from the Sun, just like anywhere else. They also radiate energy back into space, just like anywhere else. They also heat the atmosphere, just like anywhere else.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
But what happens to the things that live in the ocean, that are used to the temperature that they live in now?

Now come the predictions based on a heavily distorted view of ocean water and random numbers.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
What happens when they all start dying?

What happens when your prediction turns out to be all wrong?

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
For one thing, it's going to stink like 9 hells, all over the world. And then staravation begins. And not just little pockets of starvation that the Red Cross can handle. Wide spread starvation, the world over.

I thought you said you only believed in one hell.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And it's just getting started.

What?

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
Those fires that are getting worse and worse each year, now.

Fires are not getting worse each year. Besides, fires actually help rejuvenate the land.

Highlights of the Findings of the U.S. Global
Change Research Program Climate Science Special Report said:
The incidence of large forest fires in the western United States and Alaska has increased since the early 1980s and is projected to further increase in those regions as the climate changes, with profound changes to regional ecosystems.
https://science2017.globalchange.gov/chapter/executive-summary/

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
They just keep getting worse and worse, until the Midwest is all desert again.

Again? When was the midwest ever desert?

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And all up the west coast will be gone.

Previous burns are producing abundantly. Did you know that wildfire helps to fertilize the soil by returning nutrients to it? Larger trees typically don't burn either. They can often weather the scorching heat and survive. The choking weeds, grass, brush, and younger trees are burned away. It's sort of like a natural form of thinning the forest. The surviving trees actually grow better.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
Burned up and then washed into the ocean.

Wildfire burn areas don't get washed into the ocean. The soils is improved by the burn, plant growth is improved.

The two big wildfires on the west coast were up in B.C. Canada, in an area so rugged that it literally wasn't worth fighting them, and the Sonoma and Napa county fires, some of which went through Santa Rosa itself. That fire was caused by good growth conditions the previous spring, the usual summer heat that dried out that growth (grass), and poorly maintained power lines coming down in an offshore wind storm. If you want to blame anyone for that one, blame PG&E and the State government in Sacramento.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
But that is way in the distant future.

Wildfires have been the way of the past, they will likely continue into the future.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
Our generation just has to deal with things like making preparations for what's to come, or not. I think most will choose to do nothing, until they are faced with starvation, or homelessness. Of course, they will be totally screwed then, because if they have no resources to feed themselves, then they also have no resources to build a small farm.

Our ability to grow food improves with every year.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
I'm thinking that it is time for people to start seriously thinking about the survival of their families, in the long run. It's best to start thinking about it now, because there are a lot of obstacles that will have to be overcome, like how to sustain yourself financially. Even if you are able to grow your own food, and live totally off grid, you are still going to need some things from the store. And stores require good old money.

You have to come out of your bunker to visit them too. Horrors!

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And where do you locate your retreat, or perhaps even your primary home? Is one location as good as any other? What about natural resources like clean running water, from a natural spring? How are you going to build your home, to insure that it survives a fire storm?

Underground bunkers work best for that.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
There are a lot of things to consider, and putting off thinking about it doesn't make sense anymore, because now we know that it's not a question of if it's going to happen. It is happening. It's really just a question of how much longer we have until the shit starts hitting the fan.

There is actually quite an effective demonstration of what happens when shit hits a fan.

Basically, the fan slows down dramatically, shakes slightly because of the uneven loading on the fan blades, and more or less quickly flings the stuff off. (They used wet shit). The remaining material leaves the blades unbalanced, so the fan continues to shake.

The movie 'Airport' used chocolate pudding, not real shit. Quite an effective joke, though. They had to make this take several times. The guy throwing the 'shit' kept missing the fan!

GreenMan wrote:

It also gave us some scary news about the future, with a 5C rise predicted by the end of this century. If that is 4C, because we have already risen 1C, then that works out to a rate of 0.5C/decade, which is almost triple what is currently is [0.15C/decade]. [cue Parrot to exclaim that nobody knows nuthun, past, current, or present] And that is surprising to me. I thought that it would continue on for quite some time, with this slow march to doom. But it looks like the ones who know say that it's going to speed up.

https://science2017.globalchange.gov/chapter/front-matter-about/

That's an "about" page for the report that you think came from the IPCC. According to that page, it had nothing to do with the IPCC. The report was created by NOAA, NASA, and another agency noted. They were all good old Americans, none of which spoke with a foreign accent.

But, in your defense, I did see 1 thing that does come from the IPCC, and that is their bull shit projection that if we really, really, really try hard to reduce CO2 emissions, that maybe we can limit the warming to 2.0C. That's total bull shit, and I think I know why they repeat it over and over and over again. Because if people knew that reducing CO2 emissions won't cap warming, they would not be as eager to participate in reducing CO2 emissions. So they are lying to us all about that one. And it is impossible to rule out the possibility that they did use other information from the IPCC, but our government actually took ownership of it.

Ocean temperature variation across the globe has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

You apparently don't know what a heat sink is. Anything that absorbs heat, is a heat sink, idiot. You said oceans absorb energy from the Sun, right after you said they didn't absorb heat.

And yes, they radiate energy, and they warm the air above the surface. None of which is relevant to what I was saying.

Pay attention.

As the oceans warm, they lose their ability to sink as much heat, simply because they are warmer, and therefore the upper layers of water don't get to cool off as much from the cooler layers below, because the cooler layers below are gradually warming. Perhaps to visualize what I'm talking about, simply consider the ocean as a block of ice on the bottom [yeah, I know, there's not a block of ice on the bottom], and liquid water on top. As long as that ice is there, it is sinking the heat from above. What happens after the ice has sunk all the heat it can? It melts and is no longer a heat sink. Now it is just more water, that isn't cooling the water above anymore. So the water above gets warmer as a result. That means the air above that water gets warmer. That means our cool ocean breezes are going to become warm ocean breezes, which might be nice in the winter, but that is going to suck double when it gets summertime.

No, idiot. Those predictions aren't based on a distorted view of ocean water and random number. We know what the temperture of the oceans have been, and we know that the temperature of the oceans are rising. Your refusal to acknowledge such is of no consequence to anything other than your ability to understand what is going on.

Then things don't start dying due to Climate Change. And that would be a good thing. I promise you this, if nothing happens before I die, I will kill myself. Right before I was gonna draw my last breath, I will pull the trigger on my own head.

Nah, I never said that. I said I believe in one God. But there are multiple hells. And when they are in close proximity to each other, they give off a very pungent odor.

Yup, that's right. You heard me. The die-off is just getting started when the animals in the oceans start going belly up in a big way. It continues until most people go belly up.

According to that report they are getting worse.

Perhaps you should go take it up with them?

Way back long time ago, before trees and bushed started growing there.

So, uh, what about the surviving people that lost their homes in the last round of fires in California? Maybe they are doing better now too, living in FEMA housing?

My what a nice skew you put on what caused the fires in California. Uh, the unusual amount of moisture last winter was due to Global Warming. The unusual amount of heat this summer was due to Global Warming. And that stronger than usual offshore wind storm, it was caused by Global Warming too. The power lines that fell down, yeah, blame whoever is responsible for making sure they don't blow down. I'm thinking that must be PG&E.

Indeed they will, and they will get worse as they continue into the future.

That doesn't mean that it continues to improve, idiot.

Yup, I will be making my rounds as long as it is safe to come out from my Kiva [not bunker].

Yup. And a partially underground Kiva provides the best of both worlds. You just gotta make sure that you make the exposed parts out of something that is flame retardant, like concrete.

There is actually quite an effective demonstration of what happens when shit hits a fan.

Basically, the fan slows down dramatically, shakes slightly because of the uneven loading on the fan blades, and more or less quickly flings the stuff off. (They used wet shit). The remaining material leaves the blades unbalanced, so the fan continues to shake.

The movie 'Airport' used chocolate pudding, not real shit. Quite an effective joke, though. They had to make this take several times. The guy throwing the 'shit' kept missing the fan!

"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner many time threatener wake-me-up" yipped: I don't count on luck....

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
The IPCC doesn't know anything. They are a political group that puts out propaganda That's where this latest 'scary news' is coming from.

...deleted Holy Link...
That's an "about" page for the report that you think came from the IPCC. According to that page, it had nothing to do with the IPCC. The report was created by NOAA, NASA, and another agency noted. They were all good old Americans, none of which spoke with a foreign accent.

GreenMan wrote:
But, in your defense, I did see 1 thing that does come from the IPCC, and that is their bull shit projection that if we really, really, really try hard to reduce CO2 emissions, that maybe we can limit the warming to 2.0C.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Oceans are not a 'heat sink'. They absorb energy from the Sun, just like anywhere else. They also radiate energy back into space, just like anywhere else. They also heat the atmosphere, just like anywhere else.

You apparently don't know what a heat sink is. Anything that absorbs heat, is a heat sink, idiot.

GreenMan wrote:
You said oceans absorb energy from the Sun, right after you said they didn't absorb heat.

GreenMan wrote:
And yes, they radiate energy, and they warm the air above the surface. None of which is relevant to what I was saying.

GreenMan wrote:
Pay attention.

As the oceans warm, they lose their ability to sink as much heat, simply because they are warmer,

GreenMan wrote:
and therefore the upper layers of water don't get to cool off as much from the cooler layers below, because the cooler layers below are gradually warming.

Into the Night wrote:
Now come the predictions based on a heavily distorted view of ocean water and random numbers.

GreenMan wrote:
We know what the temperture of the oceans have been,

GreenMan wrote:
and we know that the temperature of the oceans are rising.

GreenMan wrote:
Your refusal to acknowledge such is of no consequence to anything other than your ability to understand what is going on.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And it's just getting started.

What?

Yup, that's right. You heard me. The die-off is just getting started when the animals in the oceans start going belly up in a big way. It continues until most people go belly up.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
Those fires that are getting worse and worse each year, now.

Fires are not getting worse each year. Besides, fires actually help rejuvenate the land.

According to that report they are getting worse.
...deleted Holy Quote...
Perhaps you should go take it up with them?

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
They just keep getting worse and worse, until the Midwest is all desert again.

Again? When was the midwest ever desert?

Way back long time ago, before trees and bushed started growing there.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Previous burns are producing abundantly. Did you know that wildfire helps to fertilize the soil by returning nutrients to it? Larger trees typically don't burn either. They can often weather the scorching heat and survive. The choking weeds, grass, brush, and younger trees are burned away. It's sort of like a natural form of thinning the forest. The surviving trees actually grow better.

So, uh, what about the surviving people that lost their homes in the last round of fires in California? Maybe they are doing better now too, living in FEMA housing?

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
Burned up and then washed into the ocean.

Wildfire burn areas don't get washed into the ocean. The soils is improved by the burn, plant growth is improved.

The two big wildfires on the west coast were up in B.C. Canada, in an area so rugged that it literally wasn't worth fighting them, and the Sonoma and Napa county fires, some of which went through Santa Rosa itself. That fire was caused by good growth conditions the previous spring, the usual summer heat that dried out that growth (grass), and poorly maintained power lines coming down in an offshore wind storm. If you want to blame anyone for that one, blame PG&E and the State government in Sacramento.

My what a nice skew you put on what caused the fires in California. Uh, the unusual amount of moisture last winter was due to Global Warming.

GreenMan wrote:
The unusual amount of heat this summer was due to Global Warming.

GreenMan wrote:
And that stronger than usual offshore wind storm, it was caused by Global Warming too.

GreenMan wrote:
The power lines that fell down, yeah, blame whoever is responsible for making sure they don't blow down. I'm thinking that must be PG&E.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
But that is way in the distant future.

Wildfires have been the way of the past, they will likely continue into the future.

Indeed they will, and they will get worse as they continue into the future.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
Our generation just has to deal with things like making preparations for what's to come, or not. I think most will choose to do nothing, until they are faced with starvation, or homelessness. Of course, they will be totally screwed then, because if they have no resources to feed themselves, then they also have no resources to build a small farm.

Our ability to grow food improves with every year.

That doesn't mean that it continues to improve, idiot.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
I'm thinking that it is time for people to start seriously thinking about the survival of their families, in the long run. It's best to start thinking about it now, because there are a lot of obstacles that will have to be overcome, like how to sustain yourself financially. Even if you are able to grow your own food, and live totally off grid, you are still going to need some things from the store. And stores require good old money.

You have to come out of your bunker to visit them too. Horrors!

Yup, I will be making my rounds as long as it is safe to come out from my Kiva [not bunker].

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And where do you locate your retreat, or perhaps even your primary home? Is one location as good as any other? What about natural resources like clean running water, from a natural spring? How are you going to build your home, to insure that it survives a fire storm?

Underground bunkers work best for that.

Yup. And a partially underground Kiva provides the best of both worlds. You just gotta make sure that you make the exposed parts out of something that is flame retardant, like concrete.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
The IPCC doesn't know anything. They are a political group that puts out propaganda That's where this latest 'scary news' is coming from.

...deleted Holy Link...
That's an "about" page for the report that you think came from the IPCC. According to that page, it had nothing to do with the IPCC. The report was created by NOAA, NASA, and another agency noted. They were all good old Americans, none of which spoke with a foreign accent.

Nope. It all came from the IPCC. Your Holy Link is wrong.

GreenMan wrote:
But, in your defense, I did see 1 thing that does come from the IPCC, and that is their bull shit projection that if we really, really, really try hard to reduce CO2 emissions, that maybe we can limit the warming to 2.0C.

CO2 is not capable of warming the Earth. Places on Earth vary as much as 100 deg F in the space of a single year quite easily. Do you really think a 4 degF average temperature change is going to do anything?

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Oceans are not a 'heat sink'. They absorb energy from the Sun, just like anywhere else. They also radiate energy back into space, just like anywhere else. They also heat the atmosphere, just like anywhere else.

You apparently don't know what a heat sink is. Anything that absorbs heat, is a heat sink, idiot.

Heat is not absorbed. Heat is not emitted. Heat is just heat. A 'heat sink' is nothing more than a colder object when coupled to a warmer object.

GreenMan wrote:
You said oceans absorb energy from the Sun, right after you said they didn't absorb heat.

It is not possible to absorb heat. Heat just is. Oceans absorb energy from the Sun, not heat.

GreenMan wrote:
And yes, they radiate energy, and they warm the air above the surface. None of which is relevant to what I was saying.

Radiance of a substance really gets in your way, doesn't it? Guess that's why you ignore it. It is the primary method of anything losing energy, such as the surface of the Earth.

GreenMan wrote:
Pay attention.

As the oceans warm, they lose their ability to sink as much heat, simply because they are warmer,

Why would they get warmer?

GreenMan wrote:
and therefore the upper layers of water don't get to cool off as much from the cooler layers below, because the cooler layers below are gradually warming.

The ocean surface water is not primarily cooled by the layers below. They are cooled by radiance, the same as the land. Deleted remaining extensions of your argument, since you don't understand this basic concept.

Into the Night wrote:
Now come the predictions based on a heavily distorted view of ocean water and random numbers.

No, idiot. Those predictions aren't based on a distorted view of ocean water and random number.

GreenMan wrote:
We know what the temperture of the oceans have been,

GreenMan wrote:
and we know that the temperature of the oceans are rising.

GreenMan wrote:
Your refusal to acknowledge such is of no consequence to anything other than your ability to understand what is going on.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And it's just getting started.

What?

Yup, that's right. You heard me. The die-off is just getting started when the animals in the oceans start going belly up in a big way. It continues until most people go belly up.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
Those fires that are getting worse and worse each year, now.

Fires are not getting worse each year. Besides, fires actually help rejuvenate the land.

According to that report they are getting worse.
...deleted Holy Quote...
Perhaps you should go take it up with them?

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
They just keep getting worse and worse, until the Midwest is all desert again.

Again? When was the midwest ever desert?

Way back long time ago, before trees and bushed started growing there.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:
Previous burns are producing abundantly. Did you know that wildfire helps to fertilize the soil by returning nutrients to it? Larger trees typically don't burn either. They can often weather the scorching heat and survive. The choking weeds, grass, brush, and younger trees are burned away. It's sort of like a natural form of thinning the forest. The surviving trees actually grow better.

So, uh, what about the surviving people that lost their homes in the last round of fires in California? Maybe they are doing better now too, living in FEMA housing?

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
Burned up and then washed into the ocean.

Wildfire burn areas don't get washed into the ocean. The soils is improved by the burn, plant growth is improved.

The two big wildfires on the west coast were up in B.C. Canada, in an area so rugged that it literally wasn't worth fighting them, and the Sonoma and Napa county fires, some of which went through Santa Rosa itself. That fire was caused by good growth conditions the previous spring, the usual summer heat that dried out that growth (grass), and poorly maintained power lines coming down in an offshore wind storm. If you want to blame anyone for that one, blame PG&E and the State government in Sacramento.

My what a nice skew you put on what caused the fires in California. Uh, the unusual amount of moisture last winter was due to Global Warming.

GreenMan wrote:
The unusual amount of heat this summer was due to Global Warming.

GreenMan wrote:
And that stronger than usual offshore wind storm, it was caused by Global Warming too.

GreenMan wrote:
The power lines that fell down, yeah, blame whoever is responsible for making sure they don't blow down. I'm thinking that must be PG&E.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
But that is way in the distant future.

Wildfires have been the way of the past, they will likely continue into the future.

Indeed they will, and they will get worse as they continue into the future.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
Our generation just has to deal with things like making preparations for what's to come, or not. I think most will choose to do nothing, until they are faced with starvation, or homelessness. Of course, they will be totally screwed then, because if they have no resources to feed themselves, then they also have no resources to build a small farm.

Our ability to grow food improves with every year.

That doesn't mean that it continues to improve, idiot.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
I'm thinking that it is time for people to start seriously thinking about the survival of their families, in the long run. It's best to start thinking about it now, because there are a lot of obstacles that will have to be overcome, like how to sustain yourself financially. Even if you are able to grow your own food, and live totally off grid, you are still going to need some things from the store. And stores require good old money.

You have to come out of your bunker to visit them too. Horrors!

Yup, I will be making my rounds as long as it is safe to come out from my Kiva [not bunker].

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And where do you locate your retreat, or perhaps even your primary home? Is one location as good as any other? What about natural resources like clean running water, from a natural spring? How are you going to build your home, to insure that it survives a fire storm?

Underground bunkers work best for that.

Yup. And a partially underground Kiva provides the best of both worlds. You just gotta make sure that you make the exposed parts out of something that is flame retardant, like concrete.

GreenMan wrote:
Well yes, as a matter of fact I do know what a Kiva is and what it is for. But I'm sure you don't.

GreenMan wrote:
All homes must have a doorway, to get in or out. So any house is capable of being entered by force. A Kiva is no different, in that way.

GreenMan wrote:
It won't protect you from other people any better than any other home will. That's not what they are for.

GreenMan wrote:
They are partially underground, so they are easy to heat or cool.

GreenMan wrote:
They are above ground enough to let light in, and see what's outside, like a normal house.

GreenMan wrote:
And there is one special feature about them, that I'm sure you aren't aware of, because you don't know everything about everything, lol. In the middle of the floor is a hole that is put in the ground. It represents something that the original Kivas had, that the modern ones do not have. Do you know that that hole represents?

GreenMan wrote:
You don't even know about the hole, do you?

GreenMan wrote:
According to the Hopi, they survived the last destruction by fire, by living in Kivas. That hole in the floor was very important for their survival. You will never be able to figure that out, in a million years, even though I just recently talked about it, indirectly.

GreenMan wrote:
You ask what will 4C rise in the global average temperature do, when we already see 100F swings in temperature between night and day in some regions.

GreenMan wrote:
To me you sound quite confused, the way you grasp for whatever Denial Straw you can grab ahold of.

GreenMan wrote:
The two temperatures don't really relate to each other.

GreenMan wrote:
One if an average for an entire year, and the other is extremes throughout the day.

GreenMan wrote:
But the swings are just averaged together for the daily temperature record. And, they are probably noted also, since they are what the lows and highs for the day way. Most people who look at the weather care about the highs and lows for the day, while people who study climate use the average temperatures for the day. But if it makes you feel better, a 4C increase could easily cause those 100F swings to become 125F swings, or even worse. In fact, that is what will happen.

GreenMan wrote:
You also asked other stupid questions, which indicate your lack of understanding of Global Warming and Climate Change.

GreenMan wrote:
You asked why I thought farming and ranching will stop. And of course, implied that you think everything will just keep right on going, it might just be a little warmer.

GreenMan wrote:
Do you understand that it just keeps getting hotter and hotter?

GreenMan wrote:
It's not going to just level off at 4C,

GreenMan wrote:
if that is what they are predicting the average temperature to climb to by 2100. No, idiot, it just keeps right on climbing. And it doesn't stop, just because it gets too hot for our vegetable to survive, because it doesn't care about our vegetables, or us. It doesn't care about anything, because it's physics.

GreenMan wrote:
It's not going to just warm up a little, and then back off, like normal climate variations. It's going to get hot, then it's going to get hotter. It just keeps getting hotter, until something eliminates the source of heat, which is the Sun's rays, and greenhouse gases. Once everyone dies, and we are no longer producing greenhouse gases,

GreenMan wrote:
then it will cool back down.

GreenMan wrote:
Of course, everything on the planet will be toast by then, so it will likely take another 4 billion years for life to rebound.

To just ignore that is totally iresponsible.

"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: I'll stick with theories of science.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
Well yes, as a matter of fact I do know what a Kiva is and what it is for. But I'm sure you don't.

You obviously don't understand what the Kiva represents.

GreenMan wrote:
All homes must have a doorway, to get in or out. So any house is capable of being entered by force. A Kiva is no different, in that way.

Except the 'doorway' to a Kiva is in the top. Fires and bombs dropped down the hole are a real concern.

GreenMan wrote:
It won't protect you from other people any better than any other home will. That's not what they are for.

Enjoy your bunker.

GreenMan wrote:
They are partially underground, so they are easy to heat or cool.

Actually, something underground is a real bear to heat and cool. It obstinately wants to stay the same temperature as the surrounding earth. You need good insulation to prevent that.

GreenMan wrote:
They are above ground enough to let light in, and see what's outside, like a normal house.

So are a lot of bunkers.

GreenMan wrote:
And there is one special feature about them, that I'm sure you aren't aware of, because you don't know everything about everything, lol. In the middle of the floor is a hole that is put in the ground. It represents something that the original Kivas had, that the modern ones do not have. Do you know that that hole represents?

Are you going to put the ceremonial hole in yours?

GreenMan wrote:
You don't even know about the hole, do you?

I do know what the hole represents.

GreenMan wrote:
According to the Hopi, they survived the last destruction by fire, by living in Kivas. That hole in the floor was very important for their survival. You will never be able to figure that out, in a million years, even though I just recently talked about it, indirectly.

I know what the hole represents. This is a forum about climate, not the Hopi religion or culture.

GreenMan wrote:
You ask what will 4C rise in the global average temperature do, when we already see 100F swings in temperature between night and day in some regions.

Never said you see a 100 degF difference between night and day. That sort of thing tends to rapidly crack rocks. I am referring to seasonal temperature variance.

GreenMan wrote:
To me you sound quite confused, the way you grasp for whatever Denial Straw you can grab ahold of.

It is YOU that is making irrational arguments. Shall we revisit your paradoxes that you have never cleared again?

GreenMan wrote:
The two temperatures don't really relate to each other.

Temperature is temperature. There is no 'temperature type A' or 'temperature type B'.

GreenMan wrote:
One if an average for an entire year, and the other is extremes throughout the day.

Throughout the season, actually, and only for that monitoring station.

GreenMan wrote:
But the swings are just averaged together for the daily temperature record. And, they are probably noted also, since they are what the lows and highs for the day way. Most people who look at the weather care about the highs and lows for the day, while people who study climate use the average temperatures for the day. But if it makes you feel better, a 4C increase could easily cause those 100F swings to become 125F swings, or even worse. In fact, that is what will happen.

4 != 25 dumbass.

GreenMan wrote:
You also asked other stupid questions, which indicate your lack of understanding of Global Warming and Climate Change.

No, it is YOU that is unable to define 'global warming' or 'climate change'. I'm simply pointing that out. I'm not trying to define them. I have no need to.

GreenMan wrote:
You asked why I thought farming and ranching will stop. And of course, implied that you think everything will just keep right on going, it might just be a little warmer.

Farming and ranching go right through the year, from freezing temperatures to hot temperature during the summer in the desert. I don't think your fantasized 4 degC is going to bother anyone much.

GreenMan wrote:
Do you understand that it just keeps getting hotter and hotter?

No. It is not possible to determine the temperature of the Earth. You are making up numbers. That's called an argument from randU.

GreenMan wrote:
It's not going to just level off at 4C,

Ah...more predictions from your chicken entrails.

GreenMan wrote:
if that is what they are predicting the average temperature to climb to by 2100. No, idiot, it just keeps right on climbing. And it doesn't stop, just because it gets too hot for our vegetable to survive, because it doesn't care about our vegetables, or us. It doesn't care about anything, because it's physics.

No physics here...move along...move along...

GreenMan wrote:
It's not going to just warm up a little, and then back off, like normal climate variations. It's going to get hot, then it's going to get hotter. It just keeps getting hotter, until something eliminates the source of heat, which is the Sun's rays, and greenhouse gases. Once everyone dies, and we are no longer producing greenhouse gases,

Decomposing bodies release carbon dioxide, dope. Carbon dioxide does not have any capability of warming the Earth.

GreenMan wrote:
then it will cool back down.

It never warmed up...not from CO2 anyway.

GreenMan wrote:
Of course, everything on the planet will be toast by then, so it will likely take another 4 billion years for life to rebound.

To just ignore that is totally iresponsible.

I am an Outsider. I don't believe in the Church of Global Warming or your prophecies. I'll stick with theories of science.

GreenMan wrote: One thing you fail to understand is that daily temperature extremes and yearly average temperatures aren't comparable. One is an average, while the other the minimum and maximum temperature the thermometer measured during the day. I thought I covered that, already?

You are under the impression that if the annual average temperature increases by 4C, that the daily high will just increase by 4C on average. That's not true. The daily high could be increasing 25C, while the annual average is just 4C higher. It depends on how much of a swing there is between the high and the low of the day. They don't necessarily increase the same, so you can't just add an offset to each, and expect it to work.

I'm thinking the worst thing an increase like that will do is warm the oceans, which will change the environment for the fish that live there. They will likely be the first casualties, in a big way, that we see as this die-off rolls out.

GreenMan wrote:
And it is another round with my favorite adversary, Parrot. You make a lot of points, none of them valid, as usual.

GreenMan wrote:
One thing you fail to understand is that daily temperature extremes and yearly average temperatures aren't comparable. One is an average, while the other the minimum and maximum temperature the thermometer measured during the day. I thought I covered that, already?

GreenMan wrote:
You are under the impression that if the annual average temperature increases by 4C, that the daily high will just increase by 4C on average. That's not true. The daily high could be increasing 25C, while the annual average is just 4C higher. It depends on how much of a swing there is between the high and the low of the day. They don't necessarily increase the same, so you can't just add an offset to each, and expect it to work.

GreenMan wrote:
I'm thinking the worst thing an increase like that

GreenMan wrote:
will do is warm the oceans,

GreenMan wrote:
which will change the environment for the fish that live there.
They will likely be the first casualties, in a big way, that we see as this die-off rolls out.

GreenMan wrote:
And I doubt very seriously that you know what the hole in a Kiva is for,

GreenMan wrote:
but you crack me up with your concern about the door being in the roof.

GreenMan wrote:
That is true, and there will be a circular stair case to enter the Kiva, which comes down from that door.

GreenMan wrote:
I suppose you aren't aware that a person can throw a bomb into a door that is mounted conventionally, almost as easy as he can drop one down my door.

GreenMan wrote:
But, believe it or not, it can be done. And fires don't care about doors, either.

GreenMan wrote:
What you have to do to insulate yourself from the ground is simply get your walls and floor a few inches away from the ground.

GreenMan wrote:
You're going to do that anyway, with the framework, unless you are imagining living in a cave, or something.

GreenMan wrote:
But I've heard that is pretty cool, if you have the right cave location.

GreenMan wrote:
There was one out in Phoenix that I saw pictures of that was incredible. They had a literal cave fixed up to look like a modern home. It stayed cool all day long, during the summer.

GreenMan wrote:
And no, I won't be putting a ceremonial hole in the floor of my Kiva.

GreenMan wrote:
I will be putting a working hole in the floor of my Kiva.

GreenMan wrote:
I have no use for any ceremonial anything, other than to figure out what it represents. It represents something of value, to a person who is expecting to live through the events that we will eventually have to live through.

GreenMan wrote:
The origin of the hole in the floor is one of those things that you need to figure out, if you want to survive the events ahead of us. You won't need it to start with, but you will need it eventually, and it is what seperates you from the others, that won't make it to the 5th world without knowing what it's really for.

GreenMan wrote:
Of course you know about it's ceremonial meaning, that it simply indicates the passage from the 3rd to the 4th, or current world, in the Hopi belief system.

GreenMan wrote:
It's where I will be getting my fresh air from, which will be piped in from a nearby natural source of fresh air, which I mentioned earlier. It's not only natural air conditioning, it's also naturally filtered from anything that is in the air. That could be microscopic glass from a volcanic blast, or it could be a nerve gas from a terrorist attack, or it could be nuclear fallout following a nuclear attack.

GreenMan wrote:
Oh yeah, I have played with the idea of turret mounting a 50 caliber on the roof of my Kiva, complete with a hand held remote control, vision system, targeting system, a selector switch to toggle from Semi Auto to Full Auto for my targeting system. In Semi Auto, the 50 cal will point at something that has been identified as moving. And then wait for Shoot Confirmation. In Full Auto, of course, it will just move from one thing that is moving to another, one shot in each target.

GreenMan wrote:
That type of system is probably totally illegal now.

GreenMan wrote:
But who knows what the future holds? In fact, why not instead of a 50 caliber, use a high powered laser instead.

GreenMan wrote:
That way, there will be less mess to clean up when you and Wake come to get me.

Into the Night wrote:

I have no desire to 'come get you'. I have better things to do than to 'get' kooks like you living in bunkers.

I can't speak for Wake though.

Wake wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

I have no desire to 'come get you'. I have better things to do than to 'get' kooks like you living in bunkers.

I can't speak for Wake though.

greenman has no ability to understand anything as far as I can tell. Do you suppose he has any idea of how to make a "high powered laser" or how much power it would take to give it the power to raise a blister on a person?

Wake wrote:
Though I like to scare people with a simple threat even when they are sealed behind a wall of anonymity. It takes a real brain to understand that now doesn't it.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And it is another round with my favorite adversary, Parrot. You make a lot of points, none of them valid, as usual.

Argument of the Stone.

GreenMan wrote:
One thing you fail to understand is that daily temperature extremes and yearly average temperatures aren't comparable. One is an average, while the other the minimum and maximum temperature the thermometer measured during the day. I thought I covered that, already?

Irrelevant. You are claiming that because of a 4 degC rise in temperature, daytime temperature high temperatures will rise 25 degC. 5!=25, dumbass.

GreenMan wrote:
You are under the impression that if the annual average temperature increases by 4C, that the daily high will just increase by 4C on average. That's not true. The daily high could be increasing 25C, while the annual average is just 4C higher. It depends on how much of a swing there is between the high and the low of the day. They don't necessarily increase the same, so you can't just add an offset to each, and expect it to work.

You are claiming that a 4 degC rise in average temperature means a 25 degC rise in daily high temperature.

GreenMan wrote:
I'm thinking the worst thing an increase like that

It is not possible to determine the temperature of the Earth. CO2 is not capable of warming the Earth.

GreenMan wrote:
will do is warm the oceans,

It is not possible to determine the temperature of the oceans. The only way to warm the oceans is to increase the output of the Sun.

GreenMan wrote:
which will change the environment for the fish that live there.
They will likely be the first casualties, in a big way, that we see as this die-off rolls out.

Fish live in a wide range of temperature conditions. They do just fine.

GreenMan wrote:
And I doubt very seriously that you know what the hole in a Kiva is for,

I will call this argument 1.

GreenMan wrote:
but you crack me up with your concern about the door being in the roof.

Why?

GreenMan wrote:
That is true, and there will be a circular stair case to enter the Kiva, which comes down from that door.

Since the Hopi typically use a ladder, I guess you're going to have a fancy Kiva.

GreenMan wrote:
I suppose you aren't aware that a person can throw a bomb into a door that is mounted conventionally, almost as easy as he can drop one down my door.

But I can get out through other means than that door.

GreenMan wrote:
But, believe it or not, it can be done. And fires don't care about doors, either.

Actually, they do. Ever hear of fire doors?

GreenMan wrote:
What you have to do to insulate yourself from the ground is simply get your walls and floor a few inches away from the ground.

So you ARE going to insulate your bunker.

GreenMan wrote:
You're going to do that anyway, with the framework, unless you are imagining living in a cave, or something.

No, I imagine it's like living in a bunker.

GreenMan wrote:
But I've heard that is pretty cool, if you have the right cave location.

It can be, especially in hot desert areas, where you don't have to worry about a lot of flooding issues.

GreenMan wrote:
There was one out in Phoenix that I saw pictures of that was incredible. They had a literal cave fixed up to look like a modern home. It stayed cool all day long, during the summer.

Certain kinds of grass huts work pretty well. You should study the housing the Paiute tribe. They were pretty comfortable in those things, especially when they roamed into the southern high deserts.

GreenMan wrote:
And no, I won't be putting a ceremonial hole in the floor of my Kiva.

Probably wise. Such a thing is easy to trip over.

GreenMan wrote:
I will be putting a working hole in the floor of my Kiva.

A working hole?

GreenMan wrote:
I have no use for any ceremonial anything, other than to figure out what it represents. It represents something of value, to a person who is expecting to live through the events that we will eventually have to live through.

So it IS a ceremonial hole!

GreenMan wrote:
The origin of the hole in the floor is one of those things that you need to figure out, if you want to survive the events ahead of us. You won't need it to start with, but you will need it eventually, and it is what seperates you from the others, that won't make it to the 5th world without knowing what it's really for.

See you in the 5th world!

GreenMan wrote:
Of course you know about it's ceremonial meaning, that it simply indicates the passage from the 3rd to the 4th, or current world, in the Hopi belief system.

I will call this argument 2. Welcome to your new paradox.

GreenMan wrote:
It's where I will be getting my fresh air from, which will be piped in from a nearby natural source of fresh air, which I mentioned earlier. It's not only natural air conditioning, it's also naturally filtered from anything that is in the air. That could be microscopic glass from a volcanic blast, or it could be a nerve gas from a terrorist attack, or it could be nuclear fallout following a nuclear attack.

Filters won't stop nerve gas. It takes a chemical cartridge on a mask to neutralize it. That chemical is used up. Most filters won't stop microscopic particulates either. If you DO get one that good, your HVAC system will be heavily loaded just trying to move air through it at all.

GreenMan wrote:
Oh yeah, I have played with the idea of turret mounting a 50 caliber on the roof of my Kiva, complete with a hand held remote control, vision system, targeting system, a selector switch to toggle from Semi Auto to Full Auto for my targeting system. In Semi Auto, the 50 cal will point at something that has been identified as moving. And then wait for Shoot Confirmation. In Full Auto, of course, it will just move from one thing that is moving to another, one shot in each target.

Every proper bunker needs a .50 caliber machine gun.

GreenMan wrote:
That type of system is probably totally illegal now.

Yes. According to current California and federal laws, automated machines are illegal. The only exception is the military and military weapons research programs.

BTW, where are you going to get your ammunition, if the 'economy has collapsed'?

And what about the poor mailman you just obliterated because the gun detected movement?

GreenMan wrote:
But who knows what the future holds? In fact, why not instead of a 50 caliber, use a high powered laser instead.

Where are you going to get the power to run a high powered laser? Solar isn't going to cut it.

GreenMan wrote:
That way, there will be less mess to clean up when you and Wake come to get me.

I have no desire to 'come get you'. I have better things to do than to 'get' kooks like you living in bunkers.

I can't speak for Wake though.

Tim the plumber wrote:
One day there will be a law which says it is illegal to lie and call it science.

We will hear no more about global warming then.

GreenMan wrote:

Tim the plumber wrote:
One day there will be a law which says it is illegal to lie and call it science.

We will hear no more about global warming then.

Maybe in the UK, Tim. But not in our country. We had that out with you guys a few years back, and won. The king no longer has any control over what we say.

And after a while, the attention will change from Global Warming Alarm, to Global Warming Survival. I'm thinking the same ones who are now AGW Deniers will become the ones who are patiently waiting on the return of their God Jesus, instead of doing anything on their own for their survival.

So a lot of you current Deniers will suffer and die, as you curse God for disappointing you during your time of need. Imagine watching your children starve to death, in front your own eyes, as you helplessly starve to death right along with them. That is what is predicted for those of you who scoff.

Hell, common sense should be kicking in already. But apparently what they say about common sense is true. It's not all that common.

GreenMan wrote: Was just kidding. My plan doesn't include any kind of weaponry. Isolation is what I think the key element in getting through what we have to get through. I don't mean isolation as in personal isolation from every one else, as in a hermit style of life. I mean isolated villages, that are totally self sufficient, or close to it. What they need can be obtained by other villages. Each village will have some product that they are responsible for providing. Initially, they can provide their product to the general population. And when the time comes that demand exceeds supply, only supply other villages that have trade agreements. Basically, withdraw from the rest of the world, as the world reacts to the events that will be unfolding.

Oh yeah, that thing about natural air filtration working for nerve gas. Yes it will. Unless the nerve gas can somehow work its way down into the ground. And that's because that is where the air comes from. Right out of the ground. It's source is geothermal energy, which separates the gases that are in water, when that water finally trickles so far down into the ground that the water begins to vaporize.

The steam created deep underground by ground water rises into little cracks and crevices in the rocks, until it finally emerges again at the surface. Most of the steam forms water, but some of the gases don't combine, and instead come out as air. Fresh air. Along with the water. You can see evidence of that air if you can find a silted up artesian spring, if the spring's source is from geothermal energy, and not water from a higher elevation. In fact, that's one way to tell the difference. You can also measure the amount of free oxygen in the spring water. It will be normal if the water is from a higher elevation, because it is just ground water that once, and it followed a stream back underground. But if the water is low in free oxygen, it is mostly likely because the source of the spring is geothermal energy, boiling the water deep down below.

The only difference in this type of spring, that produces fresh air, and a "hot spring," is the distance to the surface from the where the steam is generated. A hot spring's water has not travelled far enough through the cracks and crevices to cool down. And they would produce fresh air also. What you look for is what I call "blow holes," to identify a spring that is putting out air. You can find the around silted up springs, and they are just holes in the ground, that you might think are snake holes or something. The funny thing about these holes are that leaves don't fall in them. And there are no animals that live in them, to keep the holes free of leaves. They just don't fall in the holes. You can find them in the woods, around springs, and there will be leaves laying everywhere, but none in the holes. And no water will be coming out of the holes either. I think the holes are formed during periods of extreme runoff by water, when the springs are really producing. But other than that, the only thing that keeps the leaves from falling into the holes is air flow from inside the hole. It deflects leaves that are trying to fall right on them.

Believe it or not.

I know all of that for sure, because I decided one day to dig out a silted up spring that was on my property, and build a spring house. I dug and dug and dug, and followed several of those holes back to the source, which was a big channel I found deep in the silt. About 8 feet from the surface. I put a pipe in that channel, because the dirt about where I was digging kept collapsing in on the channel, causing it to back up with water, and then come flooding out on me when enough water had accumulated. So I fixed that. I crammed a two inch pipe into that channel, and after the next collapse, the water kept right on flowing, while I dug it out. I was actually digging into the side of a hill, and starting to tunnel.

So, anyway, my two inch pipe was only a few feet long, and it was ok for handling a collapse, but I really needed the water to be totally out of my way, so I taped a garden hose on the end of it, and let the water run down into a pond that I had built. I had already tested the water, and knew that too low in free oxygen to use for a pond that was intended to grow fish, so I had to make the water drip onto a rock, as it came out of my hose. Doing that required me to elevate the end of the hose, which caused the water to have to build up head to climb the elevation. So the flow would sometimes stop. And then start again. And what I noticed was that something was causing the water to spit out between spurts of flow. After noticing some bubbles coming out from where I taped the hose to the 2 inch pipe, I realized what was going on. The pipe and hose leaked a little, so there was a little puddle right here where the connection was made. The bubble were coming out of that connection.

It occurred to me that that is why the water was spitting and sputtering at times. The air was also getting trapped in there with the water, and it would build up pressure just a little, and what I was seeing was that pressure being released, when it was enough to push the water ahead of it out of the way.

So anyway, I did a bunch of reach into where springs come from when I discovered that. Something else, that might be of interest to people is that you can find these types of springs in many places. I found some of them close to the summit of Mt. Pisgah, and there are no other mountains that could be the source of the springs found there. Everyone one of those springs, is geothermal fed.

"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiners & many time threatener wake-me-up" wiffed:.... interleaved this world is.

GreenMan wrote:
Was just kidding. My plan doesn't include any kind of weaponry.

GreenMan wrote:
Isolation is what I think the key element in getting through what we have to get through. I don't mean isolation as in personal isolation from every one else, as in a hermit style of life. I mean isolated villages, that are totally self sufficient, or close to it.

GreenMan wrote:
What they need can be obtained by other villages.

GreenMan wrote:
Each village will have some product that they are responsible for providing.
Initially, they can provide their product to the general population.

GreenMan wrote:
And when the time comes that demand exceeds supply, only supply other villages that have trade agreements. Basically, withdraw from the rest of the world, as the world reacts to the events that will be unfolding.

GreenMan wrote:
Oh yeah, that thing about natural air filtration working for nerve gas. Yes it will. Unless the nerve gas can somehow work its way down into the ground. And that's because that is where the air comes from. Right out of the ground. It's source is geothermal energy, which separates the gases that are in water, when that water finally trickles so far down into the ground that the water begins to vaporize.
...deleted remaining system detail as redundant...

Tim the plumber wrote:
One day there will be a law which says it is illegal to lie and call it science.

We will hear no more about global warming then.

GreenMan wrote:
And after a while, the attention will change from Global Warming Alarm, to Global Warming Survival. I'm thinking the same ones who are now AGW Deniers will become the ones who are patiently waiting on the return of their God Jesus, instead of doing anything on their own for their survival.

So a lot of you current Deniers will suffer and die, as you curse God for disappointing you during your time of need. Imagine watching your children starve to death, in front your own eyes, as you helplessly starve to death right along with them. That is what is predicted for those of you who scoff.

Hell, common sense should be kicking in already. But apparently what they say about common sense is true. It's not all that common.

Wake wrote:
You say you are a controls engineer and yet you haven't the slightest understanding of just how interleaved this world is.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And after a while, the attention will change from Global Warming Alarm, to Global Warming Survival. I'm thinking the same ones who are now AGW Deniers will become the ones who are patiently waiting on the return of their God Jesus, instead of doing anything on their own for their survival.

So a lot of you current Deniers will suffer and die, as you curse God for disappointing you during your time of need. Imagine watching your children starve to death, in front your own eyes, as you helplessly starve to death right along with them. That is what is predicted for those of you who scoff.

Hell, common sense should be kicking in already. But apparently what they say about common sense is true. It's not all that common.

You're a false prophet. You were predicted too.

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And after a while, the attention will change from Global Warming Alarm, to Global Warming Survival. I'm thinking the same ones who are now AGW Deniers will become the ones who are patiently waiting on the return of their God Jesus, instead of doing anything on their own for their survival.

So a lot of you current Deniers will suffer and die, as you curse God for disappointing you during your time of need. Imagine watching your children starve to death, in front your own eyes, as you helplessly starve to death right along with them. That is what is predicted for those of you who scoff.

Hell, common sense should be kicking in already. But apparently what they say about common sense is true. It's not all that common.

You're a false prophet. You were predicted too.

Sounds to me like a false prophet calling his opposition false.

GreenMan wrote:
At least my prophecy has the support of the scientific community of our planet.

GreenMan wrote:
Do you ever think about how stupid your arguments are?

GreenMan wrote:
Or why you are the only one who uses your stupid arguments?

GreenMan wrote:
Why don't they catch on, and become parroted?

GreenMan wrote:
So yeah, I think I will stay with my prophecies of doom over your prophecies of continued plenty.

GreenMan wrote:
Remember, even the Garden of Eden was eventually shut down.
Did you know that we are still in Paradise?

GreenMan wrote:
And after a while, the attention will change from Global Warming Alarm, to Global Warming Survival. I'm thinking the same ones who are now AGW Deniers will become the ones who are patiently waiting on the return of their God Jesus, instead of doing anything on their own for their survival.

So a lot of you current Deniers will suffer and die, as you curse God for disappointing you during your time of need. Imagine watching your children starve to death, in front your own eyes, as you helplessly starve to death right along with them. That is what is predicted for those of you who scoff.

Hell, common sense should be kicking in already. But apparently what they say about common sense is true. It's not all that common.

Sounds to me like a false prophet calling his opposition false. At least my prophecy has the support of the scientific community of our planet.

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

GreenMan wrote:
And after a while, the attention will change from Global Warming Alarm, to Global Warming Survival. I'm thinking the same ones who are now AGW Deniers will become the ones who are patiently waiting on the return of their God Jesus, instead of doing anything on their own for their survival.

So a lot of you current Deniers will suffer and die, as you curse God for disappointing you during your time of need. Imagine watching your children starve to death, in front your own eyes, as you helplessly starve to death right along with them. That is what is predicted for those of you who scoff.

Hell, common sense should be kicking in already. But apparently what they say about common sense is true. It's not all that common.

You're a false prophet. You were predicted too.

Sounds to me like a false prophet calling his opposition false.

I am not making any predictions.

GreenMan wrote:
At least my prophecy has the support of the scientific community of our planet.

Science doesn't use prophecy.

GreenMan wrote:
Do you ever think about how stupid your arguments are?

Math and science are not stupid.

GreenMan wrote:
Or why you are the only one who uses your stupid arguments?

I'm not.

GreenMan wrote:
Why don't they catch on, and become parroted?

They DID catch on. They are the current body of science. They are the current set of theories of science.

GreenMan wrote:
So yeah, I think I will stay with my prophecies of doom over your prophecies of continued plenty.

I am not predicting continued plenty. I am pointing out what we have now. I am pointing out that there is no reason to not see it continue.

GreenMan wrote:
Remember, even the Garden of Eden was eventually shut down.
Did you know that we are still in Paradise?

Welcome to your new paradox. Congratulations! You managed TWO of them with this single statement (and using your arguments from other posts).

GreenMan wrote: Nah, it's not a paradox, if you know that the story about the Garden of Eden is really prophecy, that covers a vast time period. The ejection from Eden is symbolic of what we are about to go through. Ok, here's how it goes. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge. Everything was fine up to then. Why did God kick them out of Paradise just because they ate from the Tree of KNowledge? Easy to understand nowadays. It is our knowledge that allowed us to develope the lifestyles we currently enjoy, that are killing the planet. So really, we kicked our own asses out of Paradise. On on the Seventh Day, God Rested. That's about to happen.

GreenMan wrote:
Nah, it's not a paradox, if you know that the story about the Garden of Eden is really prophecy, that covers a vast time period. The ejection from Eden is symbolic of what we are about to go through.

GreenMan wrote:
Ok, here's how it goes. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge. Everything was fine up to then. Why did God kick them out of Paradise just because they ate from the Tree of KNowledge? Easy to understand nowadays. It is our knowledge that allowed us to develope the lifestyles we currently enjoy, that are killing the planet. So really, we kicked our own asses out of Paradise. On on the Seventh Day, God Rested. That's about to happen.

GreenMan wrote:
Ok, so you think you are not trying to propheci by predicting that life goes on without all the doom and gloom?

GreenMan wrote:
That's exactly what you are doing though, and the leading minds in science are all saying you are false.

GreenMan wrote:
So, yes, you were predicted in many places in prophecy. Everyone was warned about you.

GreenMan wrote:
And no, no one is using your reasons for Climate Change Denial.

GreenMan wrote:
I'm out talking about the Stefan-Boltzmann Law or the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. Yes, they are in use.

GreenMan wrote:
What I am talking about is your spastic attempt to use those laws to deny Global Warming.

GreenMan wrote:
Looks like, since those laws are so well known, that if something was supposedly violating them, that someone else would have pointed that out by now.

GreenMan wrote:
But no one has.

GreenMan wrote:
So no one in the scientific community agrees with you that they are being violated.

GreenMan wrote:
And there are a lot of heavy hitters on the AGW Denial side that would use such violations, if they were indeed violations.

GreenMan wrote:
So your 15 minutes of fame just expired.

See ya, wouldn't want to be ya.