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Election Law


Election Law04-10-2019 04:25
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
The chair of the Federal Election Commission made it very clear that soliciting anything from a foreign national is illegal. They left nothing to question as to how it is to be interpreted.


https://twitter.com/EllenLWeintraub/status/1139309394968096768?s=20

https://www.yahoo.com/news/after-trump-solicits-biden-investigations-from-china-and-ukraine-fec-chair-post-reminder-that-doing-so-is-illegal-193941937.html
Attached image:


Edited on 04-10-2019 05:22
04-10-2019 05:24
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5011)
James___ wrote:
The chair of the Federal Election Commission made it very clear that soliciting anything from a foreign national is illegal. They left nothing to question as to how it is to be interpreted.


https://twitter.com/EllenLWeintraub/status/1139309394968096768?s=20

https://www.yahoo.com/news/after-trump-solicits-biden-investigations-from-china-and-ukraine-fec-chair-post-reminder-that-doing-so-is-illegal-193941937.html

Could you cite the law in question?

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
04-10-2019 05:33
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
IBdaMann wrote:
James___ wrote:
The chair of the Federal Election Commission made it very clear that soliciting anything from a foreign national is illegal. They left nothing to question as to how it is to be interpreted.


https://twitter.com/EllenLWeintraub/status/1139309394968096768?s=20

https://www.yahoo.com/news/after-trump-solicits-biden-investigations-from-china-and-ukraine-fec-chair-post-reminder-that-doing-so-is-illegal-193941937.html

Could you cite the law in question?

.



Hare Krishna Bodhisattva.

p.s.,ask the FEC chairperson. I'd like to think she knows election law.
Edited on 04-10-2019 05:40
04-10-2019 06:03
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
This article explains why Hunter Biden working for Burisma created a conflict of interest. The person running the oil company was being investigated for abusing his public office and money laundering. It doesn't say what happened to the investigation.
What Trump should have done is to have had officials in the Republican party asking about this. If the prosecutor being fired halted the investigation, people other than Trump could've raised this concern.
But the Republican party might be too aggressive to consider how to make something like this known. It's whatever they want to do without caring about Due Diligence, Due Process or Rule of Law.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-gas-tycoon-and-the-vice-presidents-son-the-story-of-hunter-bidens-foray-in-ukraine/2019/09/28/1aadff70-dfd9-11e9-8fd3-d943b4ed57e0_story.html
04-10-2019 06:35
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5011)
James___ wrote:p.s.,ask the FEC chairperson. I'd like to think she knows election law.

Nope. You adopted the unsubstantiated position of some political hack who is desperate to be relevant ... so I'm asking you about your assertion that Trump broke a law.

Which law?

Obviously if no law is broken then no law is broken.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
04-10-2019 10:11
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1384)
IBdaMann wrote:
Which law?.

I'm going to go with probably illegal but it absolutely violates the intent of the law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
§30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B ) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B ) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

The Mueller report pointed out that there isn't a precedent for non-monetary violations of 30121. Is working against Biden a thing of value in the election for Trump? Yes. Yes it is. (I just checked with Captain Obvious)

"Robert Mueller noted in his March report on Russian efforts to influence the 2016 presidential election, "No judicial decision has treated the voluntary provision of uncompensated opposition research or similar information as a thing of value that could amount to a contribution under campaign-finance law.""Did Trump Commit a Crime by Seeking a Ukrainian Investigation of Joe Biden? And Does It Matter for Impeachment Purposes? – Reason.com
04-10-2019 10:19
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1454)
I still don't get how this has anything to do with the election. Maybe after the primaries, but I still don't see Joe making it that far, still a large herd. They'll be getting down and dirty before Christmas. Now, if Biden is corrupt, been selling favors, to get his son some high paying jobs, and who knows what else. Shouldn't that be the focus? Do we really want Biden as president, knowing he would sell his office, for the right price, and several countries aware of it. Would the countries he's already built a filthy relationship with, be inclined to do what the can to meddle, to insure their bought US politician wins in 2020? Firing that Ukraine prosecutor for $1 billion in loan guarantees, seems like a high price. That prosecutor was only in office for about a year. Had to be something more, than just a little slow in getting results. All ended pretty quick too, for a case, that wasn't being investigated. Where was Trump to go, if many of the same people, who didn't look into it in 2016, are still the ones who would be asked to take another look? Trump would still have had to work things out with the Ukraine president, since they need to agree to letting us look through their records and documents. If Biden has nothing to hide, he has nothing to fear. There seems to be a lot of frightened people on Capital Hill, since Joe would have needed help...
04-10-2019 11:52
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1384)
HarveyH55 wrote:
I still don't get how this has anything to do with the election.


Watergate was entirely pointless as Nixon won in a landslide. One of the most decisive wins ever.

Two separate issues here:
1 - Trump: Can a politician use their office to go after political rivals? Can a president ask a foreign government to work against a political opponent?
2 - Did Biden do something that should be investigated? What was it? ECT.

It is not the president's job to investigate everything directly. We have multiple agencies for that as does the Ukraine.

Avoiding conflicts of interest is bedrock to a fair and uncorrupted government. You find it everywhere as policy.
7. Employees shall not use public office for private gain.
04-10-2019 13:02
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5011)
tmiddles wrote: I'm going to go with probably illegal but it absolutely violates the intent of the law:

You are absurdly claiming that it is illegal for the President to conduct excellent foreign policy negotiations because it would help his approval rating and thus would help him get reelected.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
04-10-2019 15:55
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
I still don't get how this has anything to do with the election.


Watergate was entirely pointless as Nixon won in a landslide. One of the most decisive wins ever.

Two separate issues here:
1 - Trump: Can a politician use their office to go after political rivals? Can a president ask a foreign government to work against a political opponent?
2 - Did Biden do something that should be investigated? What was it? ECT.

It is not the president's job to investigate everything directly. We have multiple agencies for that as does the Ukraine.

Avoiding conflicts of interest is bedrock to a fair and uncorrupted government. You find it everywhere as policy.
7. Employees shall not use public office for private gain.



tmiddles, the law states running for public office. If Trump weren't running and Biden was, it would be illegal. This why I mentioned that people in the Republican party could have asked for clarification on what happened without involving a foreign national.
Since the issue in Ukraine was about corruption, even Ukranians thought it created a conflict of interest when Hunter Biden became a board member of Barumis.
Joe Biden should have prevented his son from taking that position which he could have done. He could've told Ukraine do not let his son have any positions in Ukraine.
Joe Biden did not do that. He shouldn't be running for office because he is willing to compromise US policy. This is where if Republicans thought this through they could've just said that when Ukraine is fighting corruption and Both parties wants the prosecutor removed, the Vice President's son is appointed to the board of a Ukranian oil company with no experience. And that company is involved in an ongoing corruption investigation.
That would involve no foreign nationals.
That would've put the Biden's in the spotlight.
Edited on 04-10-2019 16:14
04-10-2019 20:30
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1454)
The only reason Hunter got the job in the first place, was that his dad was VP, and had direct access to Obama. Now, we don't if Joe suggested they hire his son, or if the gas company offered. It would be interesting to find out, if Joe used his office for personal gain, by getting his son a high paying, 'respectable' job. It is a serious issue, since Joe Biden would have been in a position of compromise, they had leverage. Did Joe and the White House do any favors, to keep the corruption investigation quite? I think so, one year as the head prosecutor, is a short career, which he wouldn't have been given, if grossly incompetent.

Basically, if Joe was compromised in 2016, he still would be on the hook. We need to be sure, since he would be signing off on aid check, sending over weapons, and everything else requested.

I don't believe Trump ran a dirty campaign last time, least not of much as Hilary. Don't think he needs to play dirty with Joe, or any of them. He's been doing pretty good, considering the House tries to stop him at every turn. Will only cooperate, if the benefit most. Took them 2 years, just to admit there was an illegal immigration problem. Even then, they still want open borders, and more free money (humanitarian aid), which would only encourage more to rush the border.
04-10-2019 21:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Which law?.

I'm going to go with probably illegal but it absolutely violates the intent of the law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
§30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B ) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B ) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

The Mueller report pointed out that there isn't a precedent for non-monetary violations of 30121. Is working against Biden a thing of value in the election for Trump? Yes. Yes it is. (I just checked with Captain Obvious)


What was contributed? By which foreign national? When was it done? I post here things against Biden. Am I contributing a thing of value to Trump, Warren, Bernie, Harris, or any the other candidates for the Democrat party nominee? Did Ukraine government do the same thing? Did China?

I don't think you know what a 'thing of value' is.


The Parrot Killer
04-10-2019 21:19
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Which law?.

I'm going to go with probably illegal but it absolutely violates the intent of the law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
§30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B ) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B ) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

The Mueller report pointed out that there isn't a precedent for non-monetary violations of 30121. Is working against Biden a thing of value in the election for Trump? Yes. Yes it is. (I just checked with Captain Obvious)


What was contributed? By which foreign national? When was it done? I post here things against Biden. Am I contributing a thing of value to Trump, Warren, Bernie, Harris, or any the other candidates for the Democrat party nominee? Did Ukraine government do the same thing? Did China?

I don't think you know what a 'thing of value' is.



To make you happy ITN, if a foreign national intervened in an election and it was found out that you solicited said intervention, you would have broken the law. The question is, when we have evidence of a crime having been committed, do we ignore it?
People are arrested and prosecuted for various types of solicitation. Solicitation can be considered as conspiring to commit said act.
04-10-2019 23:17
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5011)
James___ wrote: To make you happy ITN, if a foreign national intervened in an election

Foreign nationals don't get to intervene in our elections.

You don't get to use the word "intervene" in this scenario.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-10-2019 02:35
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Which law?.

I'm going to go with probably illegal but it absolutely violates the intent of the law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
§30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B ) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B ) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

The Mueller report pointed out that there isn't a precedent for non-monetary violations of 30121. Is working against Biden a thing of value in the election for Trump? Yes. Yes it is. (I just checked with Captain Obvious)


What was contributed? By which foreign national? When was it done? I post here things against Biden. Am I contributing a thing of value to Trump, Warren, Bernie, Harris, or any the other candidates for the Democrat party nominee? Did Ukraine government do the same thing? Did China?

I don't think you know what a 'thing of value' is.



To make you happy ITN, if a foreign national intervened in an election and it was found out that you solicited said intervention, you would have broken the law.

So does that apply to Democrats that bus around illegal Mexicans to vote multiple times as they try to throw the election?
James___ wrote:
The question is, when we have evidence of a crime having been committed, do we ignore it?

Would you? Apparently the Democrats do.
James___ wrote:
People are arrested and prosecuted for various types of solicitation. Solicitation can be considered as conspiring to commit said act.

Void argument.


The Parrot Killer
05-10-2019 03:21
James___
★★★★☆
(1691)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Which law?.

I'm going to go with probably illegal but it absolutely violates the intent of the law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
§30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B ) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B ) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

The Mueller report pointed out that there isn't a precedent for non-monetary violations of 30121. Is working against Biden a thing of value in the election for Trump? Yes. Yes it is. (I just checked with Captain Obvious)


What was contributed? By which foreign national? When was it done? I post here things against Biden. Am I contributing a thing of value to Trump, Warren, Bernie, Harris, or any the other candidates for the Democrat party nominee? Did Ukraine government do the same thing? Did China?

I don't think you know what a 'thing of value' is.



To make you happy ITN, if a foreign national intervened in an election and it was found out that you solicited said intervention, you would have broken the law.

So does that apply to Democrats that bus around illegal Mexicans to vote multiple times as they try to throw the election?
James___ wrote:
The question is, when we have evidence of a crime having been committed, do we ignore it?

Would you? Apparently the Democrats do.
James___ wrote:
People are arrested and prosecuted for various types of solicitation. Solicitation can be considered as conspiring to commit said act.

Void argument.



If you live on the res then our elections don't matter to you.
05-10-2019 17:01
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5011)
James___ wrote:If you live on the res then our elections don't matter to you.

... and if you live on the plantation then the elections don't get to matter to you.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-10-2019 20:42
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Which law?.

I'm going to go with probably illegal but it absolutely violates the intent of the law:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121
§30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition
It shall be unlawful for-
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B ) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B ) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.

The Mueller report pointed out that there isn't a precedent for non-monetary violations of 30121. Is working against Biden a thing of value in the election for Trump? Yes. Yes it is. (I just checked with Captain Obvious)


What was contributed? By which foreign national? When was it done? I post here things against Biden. Am I contributing a thing of value to Trump, Warren, Bernie, Harris, or any the other candidates for the Democrat party nominee? Did Ukraine government do the same thing? Did China?

I don't think you know what a 'thing of value' is.



To make you happy ITN, if a foreign national intervened in an election and it was found out that you solicited said intervention, you would have broken the law.

So does that apply to Democrats that bus around illegal Mexicans to vote multiple times as they try to throw the election?
James___ wrote:
The question is, when we have evidence of a crime having been committed, do we ignore it?

Would you? Apparently the Democrats do.
James___ wrote:
People are arrested and prosecuted for various types of solicitation. Solicitation can be considered as conspiring to commit said act.

Void argument.



If you live on the res then our elections don't matter to you.

I don't live on a reservation. Even if I did, they do matter. Reservations are federal land. They are part of the United States. Each one votes the same as the State they are located in. In Washington, the electoral college members are chosen by popular vote. Being on a reservation makes no difference.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 05-10-2019 20:44
06-10-2019 01:15
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1454)
I've never heard of Native Americans not being US citizens. Isn't anyone born on American soil, automatically, an American citizen. The reservations are still on American land, and reserved for the use of Native Americans. They still have to adhere to federal law. The are exempt from state and local laws, and govern themselves. Kind of why gambling is big business on many of them, in state that don't allow casino gambling.
06-10-2019 03:46
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1384)
HarveyH55 wrote:
I don't believe Trump ran a dirty campaign last time, least not of much as Hilary.
So you don't think using the office of the president to pressure a foreign government to investigate an opponent is dirty?
06-10-2019 03:48
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1384)
Into the Night wrote:
What was contributed? By which foreign national? When was it done?


Was your objection to the Mueller Investigation: So what if he did work with Russia to get dirt on Hilary?

I'm guessing it was.

You CAN'T be surprised, since there WAS a Mueller Investigation, that people are looking into this.

Don't you think Mueller would have just said "so what, it's not illegal to work with foreign governments to influence a US election, I'm going home"
06-10-2019 06:22
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5011)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
I don't believe Trump ran a dirty campaign last time, least not of much as Hilary.
So you don't think using the office of the president to pressure a foreign government to investigate an opponent is dirty?

There was no pressure, only very cordial diplomatic cooperation ... which was very refreshing.

I think Zelenskyy is appreciative of the U.S. alerting him to wrongdoing that occurred in his country.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
06-10-2019 06:41
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1384)
IBdaMann wrote:
There was no pressure, ...

Even asking nicely to go after a political rival is dirty. But you're pretending he didn't hold back hundred of millions of dollars in aid. He did. And no it doesn't all have to take place during the phone call.

Godfather I, strong arm tactics illustrated
The Corleones ask (nicely) that Jack Woltz give Johnny Fontane a part in a movie. They don't threaten him at all while asking.

Later! (not during the conversation but later) they do this:


The strong arm tactic after the cordial request underlines the importance.

Now for $250,000,000 or $400,000,000 you could put a lot of horse heads in my bed and I'd take the money every time.

Your total hypocrisy is that this is EXACTLY hat Biden did and you call that corrupt.
06-10-2019 08:45
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
I don't believe Trump ran a dirty campaign last time, least not of much as Hilary.
So you don't think using the office of the president to pressure a foreign government to investigate an opponent is dirty?


Trump didn't pressure anyone. Biden did, though.


The Parrot Killer
06-10-2019 08:49
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
There was no pressure, ...

Even asking nicely to go after a political rival is dirty.

Trump ask for that.
tmiddles wrote:
But you're pretending he didn't hold back hundred of millions of dollars in aid. He did. And no it doesn't all have to take place during the phone call.

He didn't hold any money back either to pressure the Ukrainian government on anything.
tmiddles wrote:
Your total hypocrisy is that this is EXACTLY hat Biden did and you call that corrupt.

What Biden did was corrupt.

RDCF


The Parrot Killer
06-10-2019 09:51
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1384)
Into the Night wrote:
Trump didn't pressure anyone.
You think if you keep saying it it will become true? He held back money, a lot. That's pressure.
06-10-2019 22:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(9806)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Trump didn't pressure anyone.
You think if you keep saying it it will become true? He held back money, a lot. That's pressure.

Lie.


The Parrot Killer
07-10-2019 04:53
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5011)
tmiddles wrote: Even asking nicely to go after a political rival is dirty.

What is it about being a Democrat politician that you believe renders one free to commit crimes with impunity?

What is it about Republican politicians that you believe requires their attempts to make the US great be utterly thwarted?

You're pretending that Biden's flagrant corruption shouldn't be addressed, and that Trump should bear a stigma for having addressed it.

Your total hypocrisy is that you want to transfer Biden's (Democrat) corruption to Trump (Republican). There was nothing wrong whatsoever with Trump offering to work with Zelenskyy to rectify previous American corruption that negatively affected Ukraine. Biden probably shouldn't have bragged about his corruption.


.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
07-10-2019 05:30
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1454)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: Even asking nicely to go after a political rival is dirty.

What is it about being a Democrat politician that you believe renders one free to commit crimes with impunity?

What is it about Republican politicians that you believe requires their attempts to make the US great be utterly thwarted?

You're pretending that Biden's flagrant corruption shouldn't be addressed, and that Trump should bear a stigma for having addressed it.

Your total hypocrisy is that you want to transfer Biden's (Democrat) corruption to Trump (Republican). There was nothing wrong whatsoever with Trump offering to work with Zelenskyy to rectify previous American corruption that negatively affected Ukraine. Biden probably shouldn't have bragged about his corruption.


.


Exactly, and I don't believe it's just the Bidens, it's a tradition, and been profitable for a lot of politicians. Biden is an easy catch, and it will give a lot of other countries what they need, to weed out some serious corruption. They haven't been just stealing from other countries, but still American aid money. Obama passed out quite a bit of the money he borrowed, leaving us a huge debt. Will be interesting how many American consultants flocked over to those countries to help themselves to a little free american cash...

Biden bragging on camera, opened the door to an investigation, last year. Oddly, nobody seemed interested, or offended, they laughed. Trump didn't make any direct threats, didn't look like he implied a threat either. Biden was very clear in his threat. Biden can't survive, if they continue to persecute Trump. The House democrats can only twist and imply there was a threat, and corruption. Biden confessed on camera, and implicated his boss.

I think the democrats got good control over everything over here, but not some much around the world. All those other countries looking into american activities, with their aid money, won't be silenced as easy.
07-10-2019 07:14
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1384)
IBdaMann wrote:
What is it about being a Democrat politician
Ah yes the classic Trump strategy of "Whatabout". We can't talk about Trump at all because what about someone else!

Two wrongs make a right by your Math there IBD? Is that where the radiance goes when it reaches your skin, right on to making that somehow true?

IBdaMann wrote:
...There was nothing wrong whatsoever with Trump offering to work with Zelenskyy ...
So you just don't believe in the concept of a conflict of interest? Sessions was wrong to recuse himself?

You TRUMPettes are all shredding the framework of this country while your guy is around and you forget that everything you destroy may not grow back in time for someone down the road you don't like at all.

HarveyH55 wrote:
tmiddles wrote: Even asking nicely to go after a political rival is dirty.
Exactly... Bidens...Biden...Biden...Biden...Biden...democrats....

What about Biden! No time to talk about Trump's violation of the law.

Question for you blokes: What is the difference between what Trump was accused of in the Mueller investigation, meeting with a Russian agent to get dirt on a political opponent, and this?
07-10-2019 15:42
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5011)
tmiddles wrote: So you just don't believe in the concept of a conflict of interest?

... not when diplomacy is the President's job.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties


If your job is to pick up trash, there is no conflict of interest in you calling out the guy who littered.

You Marxists are all trying to shred the framework of this country while your Party tries to eat away at the economy.

tmiddles wrote: Question for you blokes: What is the difference between what Trump was accused of in the Mueller investigation, meeting with a Russian agent to get dirt on a political opponent, and this?

You are correct that they are both baseless attempts to railroad Trump for what a high-profile Democrat had done.

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
08-10-2019 08:09
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★☆
(1384)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: So you just don't believe in the concept of a conflict of interest?

... not when diplomacy is the President's job.
And every job should get done! A "Conflict of Interest" acknowledged by an ethical government official simply means you let someone else do it.

IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: Question for you blokes: What is the difference between what Trump was accused of in the Mueller investigation, meeting with a Russian agent to get dirt on a political opponent, and this?

You are correct that they are both baseless attempts to railroad Trump for what a high-profile Democrat had done.

Wait a minute. You're saying that the Mueller investigation was "baseless" because of what? Because Trump wasn't working with the Russians to discredit his opponent in an election? Or because it's OK to do that?
08-10-2019 13:02
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5011)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: So you just don't believe in the concept of a conflict of interest?

... not when diplomacy is the President's job.
And every job should get done! A "Conflict of Interest" acknowledged by an ethical government official simply means you let someone else do it.

Nope. The President cannot recuse himself.

And there was no conflict of interest. It's because you are obediently hating Trump that you delude yourself into "seeing" a conflict where none exist.


tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: Question for you blokes: What is the difference between what Trump was accused of in the Mueller investigation, meeting with a Russian agent to get dirt on a political opponent, and this?

You are correct that they are both baseless attempts to railroad Trump for what a high-profile Democrat had done.

Wait a minute. You're saying that the Mueller investigation was "baseless" because of what?

There was no basis for the investigation.

Hence the word "baseless."

.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist




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