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29-11-2020 07:53
keepit
★★★★★
(2235)
IBD,
How could water actually defy thermodynamics or the SB law?
29-11-2020 09:35
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3728)
HarveyH55 wrote:
And, evaporation has a cooling effect... That's why people sweat. ...
It's warmer when it's humid Harvey. Clouds make it warmer believe it or not.
29-11-2020 10:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
IBD,
Why are you and ITN so incapable of understanding figures of speech?

I studied the Holy Bible. I think that's where i learned to understand figures of speech.

Since you obviously have failed to recognize some important aspects of the character of God, described in the Bible, I doubt you studied it well, if at all.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 29-11-2020 10:44
29-11-2020 10:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Quote from IBdaMann :

Hint: The composition of the atmosphere has no bearing on the temperature. The quantity, yes, but the composition, no.


Please explain how the quantity of atmosphere have a bearing on the temperature. I do not understand.


Thicker atmosphere allows more efficient conductive heating from the surface to the atmosphere. That's about it. This is why lower altitudes like Death Valley see higher temperatures, and mountains see lower temperatures.


And increased CO2 leads to a thicker atmosphere!

No, it doesn't. Denial of equilibrium chemistry.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Have you finally converted to the Church of Global Warming and Climate Change???

I don't think he will. He knows what a sham that religion is.


What is equilibrium chemistry?

The study of reactions and what drives them.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
29-11-2020 10:48
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
Spongy Iris wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
As you said, the gas was trapped in the ground before, ...
True but CO2 making the atmosphere heavier isn't really a theory that's out there so a moot subject.

Into the Night wrote:
So humidity is not determined by adding water vapor???
Only temporarily right? Isn't there a feedback loop with the water that evaporates from bodies of water? Interesting question. If for every CO2 molecule produced a molecule of water is also produced which remains in the air, that is significant.
What do you think Spongy? There's no talking to Mr. ITN RQAA

"Good tests kill flawed theories; we remain alive to guess again." - Karl Popper
ITN/IBD Fraud exposed:  The 2nd LTD add on claiming radiance from cooler bodies can't be absorbed Max Planck debunks, they can't explain:net-thermal-radiation-you-in-a-room-as-a-reference & Proof: no data is valid for IBD or ITN


Well CO2 is denser than nitrogen and oxygen, so the logic follows if N and O are consistent and CO2 increases, there should be more density in the atmosphere.

I don't think the total amount of water on the earth and in the atmosphere ever changes...

Why should nitrogen or oxygen be consistent? Both of these elements react.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
29-11-2020 11:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:

The atmosphere is not contained in a physical barrier, like a glass lab jar. It expands and contracts. You can reduce the height and density to meaningless averages, but that wouldn't be accurate and true. Only useful to your narrow focus, on one small aspect of the giant planet.


There is evidence which I believe indicates your above statement is basically incorrect.

His statement is correct. You are denying science again.
Spongy Iris wrote:
We have discussed my speculation about the "great biblical flood" in Libya, Egypt, Sudan, when the protective glass barrier around earth appears to have shattered, allowing the actual intensity of sunlight radiation to hit the earth. The color of the 1000 tonnes of glass shards found spread across an oval shape 130 by 50 km is close to the color of the sky where you see the sun sets and rises.

There is no physical barrier of glass around Earth.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Also sky blue is not the same color as electric blue. Reason I say that is us common folk have produced a light bright enough to light up the sky at night as if it was day. It was a transformer explosion in NYC in the 2018 holiday season.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/12/28/transformer-explosion-new-york-citys-night-sky.html

That electric blue is different than sky blue. Must be another factor influencing the sky's color when intense light hits the atmosphere further above ground.

You obviously never learned about light scattering.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The color of the sky is pretty consistent all around the world!

No, it isn't. It varies with the latitude, the landscape beneath that bit of sky, the amount and type of cloud cover, your altitude, etc.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Rapid decrease of heat in the atmosphere from 90 to 60 miles is another indication.

Heat is not contained in anything.
Spongy Iris wrote:
What causes such rapid decrease of heat at this altitude?

Heat is not contained in anything.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Bird brain will say it's the magnetic field that deflects the heat.

Heat is not deflected.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Ask yourself, why is the sun so bright, when its heat is pretty mild?

See the inverse square law.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Most people would be temporarily blinded if they stared at the sun for just 5 minutes. But even in Florida, exposing your skin to sunlight for just 5 minutes, even at high noon, probably isn't long enough to give you a bad sunburn.

UV light is not heat. Neither is visible light.
Spongy Iris wrote:
When sunlight passes through glass, it's wavelength becomes less intense.

Light is not a single wavelength. Wavelength is not an intensity.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It gets slowed down. But the amount of visible light seen doesn't change much

Light does slow down while it's in glass, but speeds up again when it leaves the glass. There is no glass around Earth.
Spongy Iris wrote:
My thinking is too much heat would demagnetize earth.

Heat is not accumulated. Heat is not contained in anything.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Inside the barrier

There is no barrier.
Spongy Iris wrote:
could be a refrigeration process that cools earth so it can stay magnetized.

There is no refrigerator cooling Earth either.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
29-11-2020 11:09
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
Duncan,
Re: perspective. All this anecdotal evidence isn't particularly honored in scientific circles.

Science isn't a circle. It isn't people at all. Science is a set of falsifiable theories.
keepit wrote:
Re: sea level rise. As far as i know, the amount of sea level rise is going to be slower than you seem to think.

It is not possible to measure the global sea level.
keepit wrote:
There can be tipping points however

There is no instability in sea level.
keepit wrote:
such as if the roos Ice Shelf were to break off and slide into the sea. That would cause a rapid 10 foot rise in sea level.

Zero. The Ross ice shelf is floating. It is not breaking off either.
keepit wrote:
Re: other problems related to global warming.

Define 'global warming'.
keepit wrote:
Things such as extreme weather causing droughts, severe storms. extinctions, animal and plant migrations, etc. will prevail.

Define 'extreme weather'.

Droughts, storms, floods, are all part of the normal variation of weather.
Animals go extinct and new ones are discovered. That is normal variation also.
Plant's do not migrate. Some animals do, however, particularly birds.

Buzzword fallacies. Chanting. No argument presented.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
29-11-2020 11:12
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
tmiddles wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
... CO2 is denser than nitrogen and oxygen, so the logic follows if N and O are consistent and CO2 increases,
I don't think the total amount of water on the earth and in the atmosphere ever changes...
If burning hydrocarbons causes the atmosphere to retain the H2O generated then that would be bigger story, water vapor being a green house gas,

No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth. You can't create energy out of nothing.
tmiddles wrote:
than the density issue. However burning does remove O2 so that goes down as CO2 increases. So not consistent.

At least you got this part right.
tmiddles wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
I have solved the sea level rise claim.It is not happening...
You've ignored my posts in reply to you on this Duncan. If you'd ever like to challenge your forgone conclusions I'm happy to join you in that.
...deleted spam...

It is not possible to measure the global sea level.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
29-11-2020 11:13
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
keepit wrote:
IBD,
How could water actually defy thermodynamics or the SB law?

It can't. Tmiddles is arguing it does.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
29-11-2020 11:14
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
And, evaporation has a cooling effect... That's why people sweat. ...
It's warmer when it's humid Harvey. Clouds make it warmer believe it or not.


WRONG. Humidity is not temperature. It has no relation causing changes in temperature.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
29-11-2020 16:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9086)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
And, evaporation has a cooling effect... That's why people sweat. ...
It's warmer when it's humid Harvey. Clouds make it warmer believe it or not.


This ABSURD claim of yours has long-since been debunked ... and you promptly FLED when it was discussed. Of course it comes as no surprise that you would dishonestly try to sneak this back in when you believe no one is paying attention.

https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/clouds-are-warming-earth-not-so-much-ghgs-d6-e2748.php#post_46418


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
29-11-2020 17:05
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3368)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
And, evaporation has a cooling effect... That's why people sweat. ...
It's warmer when it's humid Harvey. Clouds make it warmer believe it or not.


I live in Florida, and well aware of humidity. It's not warmer, it just 'feels' warmer. The heat index gives a warmer, (5-6 degrees), feels-like temperature, considering the near 100% humidity during the summer. It 'feels' warmer, because sweat doesn't evaporate as quickly, because the air is near your body temperature, and already saturated with water. You sweat, it doesn't evaporate, you don't cool off. The redneck air conditioners don't work very well here.

If you left your basement-bunker occasionally, and worked outdoors any, under the Florida sun, you would know the sweet relief, most normal people feel, when clouds pass overhead.
01-12-2020 03:06
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(584)
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
And, evaporation has a cooling effect... That's why people sweat. ...
It's warmer when it's humid Harvey. Clouds make it warmer believe it or not.


That effect is more observed when it's cold.

For example...

We've been having freezing nights here because the sky is clear. If it were to cloud over and rain, night temps would probably be around 50 F instead of 35 F.

The clear days get to 65 F, but if it were to cloud over and rain probably the day would only get to 60 F.

Death Valley gets hotter than Florida in the daytime, cuz less clouds to block the sun. But it's probably a lot colder at night in Death Valley than Florida, cuz less clouds.
01-12-2020 03:41
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:
[quote]HarveyH55 wrote:


If the glass surrounding the planet shattered 29 million years ago, what does it matter today? It's not there anymore. Why did glass only fall near Libya? How did that glass barrier get there anyway. Why do none of the other planets seem to be contained in a lab jar? Did their's get shatter too?

Sorry, but weird science is cool, in the entertaining way. I like ghost stories, bigfoot, space aliens, but I don't 'believe' they are a reality. I did read the Bible once, but wouldn't consider myself a Christian. I do believe there is value in religion, and the book is full of wise things. Mostly it gets twisted, and exploited, in a democrat sort of way, anymore. But I do have many of the Christian beliefs and values


I guess I can indulge with some answers...

I never said it shattered 29 million years ago. I'm only guessing it shattered sometime before the Sumerian society ~ 5000 years ago, cuz they penned the Epic of Gilgamesh I believe, which is the same "great flood" story.

Radiometric dating estimates the rock from which the glass material is formed is 29 million years old.

This tells you nothing about when the glass was formed. I have no idea how it was formed but I will just speculate it was a great feat of engineering.

It must still be there, and must have been repaired, cuz, I'm guessing, if it wasn't there, the radiation from the sun would destroy all life on the land. There is radiation from the moon too.

Too high of atmospheric pressure is what I guess caused the glass to shatter. And this brings me to the Climate Debate forum, and the CO2 issue.

P.s. planets like Mars and Venus kinda just look like satellites or something which flashes light that is orbiting earth to me... Basically Unidentified Flying Objects as far as us sheeple know.
01-12-2020 06:01
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
Spongy Iris wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
[quote]HarveyH55 wrote:
And, evaporation has a cooling effect... That's why people sweat. ...
It's warmer when it's humid Harvey. Clouds make it warmer believe it or not.


That effect is more observed when it's cold.
Spongy Iris wrote:
For example...

We've been having freezing nights here because the sky is clear. If it were to cloud over and rain, night temps would probably be around 50 F instead of 35 F.

The clear days get to 65 F, but if it were to cloud over and rain probably the day would only get to 60 F.

It is not possible to measure what it would have been had there not been clouds on cloudy days (or nights).
Spongy Iris wrote:
Death Valley gets hotter than Florida in the daytime, cuz less clouds to block the sun.

But it's probably a lot colder at night in Death Valley than Florida, cuz less clouds.

Death Valley is lower than sea level. Florida isn't (although it can sometimes seem like it is!
) It also doesn't get as many hurricanes as Florida.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
01-12-2020 06:02
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:
[quote]HarveyH55 wrote:


If the glass surrounding the planet shattered 29 million years ago, what does it matter today? It's not there anymore. Why did glass only fall near Libya? How did that glass barrier get there anyway. Why do none of the other planets seem to be contained in a lab jar? Did their's get shatter too?

Sorry, but weird science is cool, in the entertaining way. I like ghost stories, bigfoot, space aliens, but I don't 'believe' they are a reality. I did read the Bible once, but wouldn't consider myself a Christian. I do believe there is value in religion, and the book is full of wise things. Mostly it gets twisted, and exploited, in a democrat sort of way, anymore. But I do have many of the Christian beliefs and values


I guess I can indulge with some answers...

I never said it shattered 29 million years ago. I'm only guessing it shattered sometime before the Sumerian society ~ 5000 years ago, cuz they penned the Epic of Gilgamesh I believe, which is the same "great flood" story.

Radiometric dating estimates the rock from which the glass material is formed is 29 million years old.

This tells you nothing about when the glass was formed. I have no idea how it was formed but I will just speculate it was a great feat of engineering.

It must still be there, and must have been repaired, cuz, I'm guessing, if it wasn't there, the radiation from the sun would destroy all life on the land. There is radiation from the moon too.

Too high of atmospheric pressure is what I guess caused the glass to shatter. And this brings me to the Climate Debate forum, and the CO2 issue.

P.s. planets like Mars and Venus kinda just look like satellites or something which flashes light that is orbiting earth to me... Basically Unidentified Flying Objects as far as us sheeple know.


You don't know what happened 5000 years ago. You weren't there.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 01-12-2020 06:02
01-12-2020 09:12
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(584)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:
[quote]HarveyH55 wrote:


If the glass surrounding the planet shattered 29 million years ago, what does it matter today? It's not there anymore. Why did glass only fall near Libya? How did that glass barrier get there anyway. Why do none of the other planets seem to be contained in a lab jar? Did their's get shatter too?

Sorry, but weird science is cool, in the entertaining way. I like ghost stories, bigfoot, space aliens, but I don't 'believe' they are a reality. I did read the Bible once, but wouldn't consider myself a Christian. I do believe there is value in religion, and the book is full of wise things. Mostly it gets twisted, and exploited, in a democrat sort of way, anymore. But I do have many of the Christian beliefs and values


I guess I can indulge with some answers...

I never said it shattered 29 million years ago. I'm only guessing it shattered sometime before the Sumerian society ~ 5000 years ago, cuz they penned the Epic of Gilgamesh I believe, which is the same "great flood" story.

Radiometric dating estimates the rock from which the glass material is formed is 29 million years old.

This tells you nothing about when the glass was formed. I have no idea how it was formed but I will just speculate it was a great feat of engineering.

It must still be there, and must have been repaired, cuz, I'm guessing, if it wasn't there, the radiation from the sun would destroy all life on the land. There is radiation from the moon too.

Too high of atmospheric pressure is what I guess caused the glass to shatter. And this brings me to the Climate Debate forum, and the CO2 issue.

P.s. planets like Mars and Venus kinda just look like satellites or something which flashes light that is orbiting earth to me... Basically Unidentified Flying Objects as far as us sheeple know.


You don't know what happened 5000 years ago. You weren't there.


Did I say I knew???

People have estimated the Sumerian civilisation to be ~ 5000 years old, and apparently they get credit for penning the Epic of Gilgamesh. And I've heard the Sumerian civilization is the oldest known civilization.
01-12-2020 09:27
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(584)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
[quote]HarveyH55 wrote:
And, evaporation has a cooling effect... That's why people sweat. ...
It's warmer when it's humid Harvey. Clouds make it warmer believe it or not.


That effect is more observed when it's cold.
Spongy Iris wrote:
For example...

We've been having freezing nights here because the sky is clear. If it were to cloud over and rain, night temps would probably be around 50 F instead of 35 F.

The clear days get to 65 F, but if it were to cloud over and rain probably the day would only get to 60 F.

It is not possible to measure what it would have been had there not been clouds on cloudy days (or nights).
Spongy Iris wrote:
Death Valley gets hotter than Florida in the daytime, cuz less clouds to block the sun.

But it's probably a lot colder at night in Death Valley than Florida, cuz less clouds.

Death Valley is lower than sea level. Florida isn't (although it can sometimes seem like it is!
) It also doesn't get as many hurricanes as Florida.


I have a good sense what would happen to temperature this time of year where I live on a clear night versus cloudy night, and clear day versus cloudy day. The temps I said earlier are pretty close to what would prevail. Overzealous nitpicking

The other point is similar, and just comparing desert to tropical climates at similar latitudes, and how more or less clouds effect differences. Overzealous nitpicking.
01-12-2020 10:41
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9086)
keepit wrote:IBD,
How could water actually defy thermodynamics or the SB law?

Yes, that's a stupid question.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
01-12-2020 10:53
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9086)
Spongy Iris wrote:I have a good sense ...

No you don't. You are a moron for thinking that temperature is a result of clouds and not the other way around.


M - O - R - O - N

Spongy Iris wrote: what would happen to temperature this time of year where I live on a clear night versus cloudy night,

Nope. Did I mention that you are a moron? Clouds form because of changing conditions, not the other way around. There are clouds in both warm and cold temperatures.

Let's just call your claim the "Clouds Have Magical Superpowers" theory. They can join CO2 in defying physics.

.
.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
01-12-2020 11:04
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3368)
I don't get this cloud warming thing. Rained yesterday, but cleared off some toward after noon, and it sort of felt colder. This morning, it's cold, low 50s, windy too. It's too dark to tell, no moon or stars, so cloudy? Why isn't the clouds warming? I really hate the cold. Wind from the north, Norwegian Jet Stream?
01-12-2020 11:09
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9086)
HarveyH55 wrote:
I don't get this cloud warming thing. Rained yesterday, but cleared off some toward after noon, and it sort of felt colder. This morning, it's cold, low 50s, windy too. It's too dark to tell, no moon or stars, so cloudy? Why isn't the clouds warming? I really hate the cold. Wind from the north, Norwegian Jet Stream?


Maybe they are Norwegian clouds, I.e. they prefer the cold.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
01-12-2020 11:24
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:
[quote]HarveyH55 wrote:


If the glass surrounding the planet shattered 29 million years ago, what does it matter today? It's not there anymore. Why did glass only fall near Libya? How did that glass barrier get there anyway. Why do none of the other planets seem to be contained in a lab jar? Did their's get shatter too?

Sorry, but weird science is cool, in the entertaining way. I like ghost stories, bigfoot, space aliens, but I don't 'believe' they are a reality. I did read the Bible once, but wouldn't consider myself a Christian. I do believe there is value in religion, and the book is full of wise things. Mostly it gets twisted, and exploited, in a democrat sort of way, anymore. But I do have many of the Christian beliefs and values


I guess I can indulge with some answers...

I never said it shattered 29 million years ago. I'm only guessing it shattered sometime before the Sumerian society ~ 5000 years ago, cuz they penned the Epic of Gilgamesh I believe, which is the same "great flood" story.

Radiometric dating estimates the rock from which the glass material is formed is 29 million years old.

This tells you nothing about when the glass was formed. I have no idea how it was formed but I will just speculate it was a great feat of engineering.

It must still be there, and must have been repaired, cuz, I'm guessing, if it wasn't there, the radiation from the sun would destroy all life on the land. There is radiation from the moon too.

Too high of atmospheric pressure is what I guess caused the glass to shatter. And this brings me to the Climate Debate forum, and the CO2 issue.

P.s. planets like Mars and Venus kinda just look like satellites or something which flashes light that is orbiting earth to me... Basically Unidentified Flying Objects as far as us sheeple know.


You don't know what happened 5000 years ago. You weren't there.


Did I say I knew???

Yes.
Spongy Iris wrote:
People have estimated the Sumerian civilisation to be ~ 5000 years old, and apparently they get credit for penning the Epic of Gilgamesh. And I've heard the Sumerian civilization is the oldest known civilization.

You don't know what happened 5000 years ago.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
01-12-2020 11:25
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
[quote]HarveyH55 wrote:
And, evaporation has a cooling effect... That's why people sweat. ...
It's warmer when it's humid Harvey. Clouds make it warmer believe it or not.


That effect is more observed when it's cold.
Spongy Iris wrote:
For example...

We've been having freezing nights here because the sky is clear. If it were to cloud over and rain, night temps would probably be around 50 F instead of 35 F.

The clear days get to 65 F, but if it were to cloud over and rain probably the day would only get to 60 F.

It is not possible to measure what it would have been had there not been clouds on cloudy days (or nights).
Spongy Iris wrote:
Death Valley gets hotter than Florida in the daytime, cuz less clouds to block the sun.

But it's probably a lot colder at night in Death Valley than Florida, cuz less clouds.

Death Valley is lower than sea level. Florida isn't (although it can sometimes seem like it is!
) It also doesn't get as many hurricanes as Florida.


I have a good sense what would happen to temperature this time of year where I live on a clear night versus cloudy night, and clear day versus cloudy day. The temps I said earlier are pretty close to what would prevail. Overzealous nitpicking

You can't compare. No reference point. Fallacy fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
The other point is similar, and just comparing desert to tropical climates at similar latitudes, and how more or less clouds effect differences. Overzealous nitpicking.

You can't compare. No reference point. Fallacy fallacy. Base rate fallacies.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
01-12-2020 19:06
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(584)
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I have a good sense ...

No you don't. You are a moron for thinking that temperature is a result of clouds and not the other way around.


M - O - R - O - N

Spongy Iris wrote: what would happen to temperature this time of year where I live on a clear night versus cloudy night,

Nope. Did I mention that you are a moron? Clouds form because of changing conditions, not the other way around. There are clouds in both warm and cold temperatures.

Let's just call your claim the "Clouds Have Magical Superpowers" theory. They can join CO2 in defying physics.

.
.


As far as I can tell clouds form from evaporation. And then they get blown around by wind.

Where I live, at night when it's cold, in December, if there are no clouds it's going to be close to 35 F. If there is a thick cloud cover, it's going to be close to 50 F.

It is a known weather phenomenon.

It often gets cold enough to snow, but only when there are no clouds. It never snows though, because when clouds roll in, it gets too warm.
01-12-2020 21:11
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★★
(2108)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I have a good sense ...

No you don't. You are a moron for thinking that temperature is a result of clouds and not the other way around.


M - O - R - O - N

Spongy Iris wrote: what would happen to temperature this time of year where I live on a clear night versus cloudy night,

Nope. Did I mention that you are a moron? Clouds form because of changing conditions, not the other way around. There are clouds in both warm and cold temperatures.

Let's just call your claim the "Clouds Have Magical Superpowers" theory. They can join CO2 in defying physics.

.
.


As far as I can tell clouds form from evaporation.


Clouds form because rising air with water vapor condenses as it cools below the dew point.
01-12-2020 22:17
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3368)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I have a good sense ...

No you don't. You are a moron for thinking that temperature is a result of clouds and not the other way around.


M - O - R - O - N

Spongy Iris wrote: what would happen to temperature this time of year where I live on a clear night versus cloudy night,

Nope. Did I mention that you are a moron? Clouds form because of changing conditions, not the other way around. There are clouds in both warm and cold temperatures.

Let's just call your claim the "Clouds Have Magical Superpowers" theory. They can join CO2 in defying physics.

.
.


As far as I can tell clouds form from evaporation. And then they get blown around by wind.

Where I live, at night when it's cold, in December, if there are no clouds it's going to be close to 35 F. If there is a thick cloud cover, it's going to be close to 50 F.

It is a known weather phenomenon.

It often gets cold enough to snow, but only when there are no clouds. It never snows though, because when clouds roll in, it gets too warm.


Total BS... I grew up in Oregon, on the side of Mt. Hood, year around skiing... No clouds, no snow. Just like, no clouds, no rain... Been a long time, but the snow clouds where sort of a light-grey, and a smooth, even cover.
01-12-2020 22:45
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(584)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I have a good sense ...

No you don't. You are a moron for thinking that temperature is a result of clouds and not the other way around.


M - O - R - O - N

Spongy Iris wrote: what would happen to temperature this time of year where I live on a clear night versus cloudy night,

Nope. Did I mention that you are a moron? Clouds form because of changing conditions, not the other way around. There are clouds in both warm and cold temperatures.

Let's just call your claim the "Clouds Have Magical Superpowers" theory. They can join CO2 in defying physics.

.
.


As far as I can tell clouds form from evaporation. And then they get blown around by wind.

Where I live, at night when it's cold, in December, if there are no clouds it's going to be close to 35 F. If there is a thick cloud cover, it's going to be close to 50 F.

It is a known weather phenomenon.

It often gets cold enough to snow, but only when there are no clouds. It never snows though, because when clouds roll in, it gets too warm.


Total BS... I grew up in Oregon, on the side of Mt. Hood, year around skiing... No clouds, no snow. Just like, no clouds, no rain... Been a long time, but the snow clouds where sort of a light-grey, and a smooth, even cover.


So my weather report is BS cuz it doesn't match MT Hood???

The weather I described is just a bit east of San Fran, at the base of Mt Diablo, around elevation 400 ft. It is pretty consistent and any weather person around here would confirm the statement is pretty accurate if you're rounding to the nearest 5.

MT Diablo will rarely get snow, but down at our elevation it pretty much never happens. But we have already gotten a few frosts this year.

MT Hood is about 7 degrees further N latitude, at a much higher elevation, and further east of ocean. The ocean fog often blankets us, but said fog probably doesn't reach MT Hood.

I grew up in the Great Canadian Shield. In the winter it's usually warmer when it snows, than when it's clear skies.

Wind speed is another factor to consider; faster wind speed cools it down more.
02-12-2020 18:17
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I have a good sense ...

No you don't. You are a moron for thinking that temperature is a result of clouds and not the other way around.


M - O - R - O - N

Spongy Iris wrote: what would happen to temperature this time of year where I live on a clear night versus cloudy night,

Nope. Did I mention that you are a moron? Clouds form because of changing conditions, not the other way around. There are clouds in both warm and cold temperatures.

Let's just call your claim the "Clouds Have Magical Superpowers" theory. They can join CO2 in defying physics.

.
.


As far as I can tell clouds form from evaporation.

WRONG. Clouds form from condensation or sublimation. They are liquid or solid water.
Spongy Iris wrote:
And then they get blown around by wind.

So does water vapor. You can't see it, because water vapor is not particularly visible.
Spongy Iris wrote:
Where I live, at night when it's cold, in December, if there are no clouds it's going to be close to 35 F. If there is a thick cloud cover, it's going to be close to 50 F.

Base rate fallacy. You can't compare to what it WOULD have been had no cloud been present when clouds are present.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It is a known weather phenomenon.

No, it is known as a base rate fallacy.
Spongy Iris wrote:
It often gets cold enough to snow, but only when there are no clouds. It never snows though, because when clouds roll in, it gets too warm.

I don't know where you live. But it sound like somewhere that the laws of physics don't work.

I live in the Pacific Northwest (Washington, on the Wet Side). We rarely get snow at lower elevations because of a prevailing wind that comes from warmer waters. When that wind brings moisture with it, we call it the Pineapple Express (the wind here tends to come from 210 degT, essentially from Hawaii).

Occasionally wind comes out of the northern Pacific waters (sometimes called a Fraser wind), and if it's cold enough, can bring lowland snow. Occasionally, we also get a reverse flow (offshore winds) called Chinook winds. This comes from dry regions east of the Cascades, and carries very little moisture. It can be a very cold wind or a very hot wind, depending on the temperatures east of the Cascades. If a Chinook wind is fast enough, it can create a significant mountain wave compression on the lee side, warming the Seattle area, particularly near the mountains (Compressing air makes it warmer).

The Pacific Northwest weather is a complex beast, due to all the mountains and the proximity to the nearby Puget Sound and the Pacific Ocean.

For example, the prevailing winds (usually out of 210degT) can split and go around the Olympic mountains. One side comes through a gap near Shelton, WA. This carries moist warmer air. The other side comes through the Strait of Juan de Fuca, and is a bit colder. On the lee side of the Olympics, they meet up again, building what is called the 'Convergence Zone'. The warmer air meeting up with the colder air can cause clouds to form and rain or snow all along that line. It moves a bit north or south as wind direction changes somewhat. It acts like a stationary front. It can be perfectly clear on either side of that line.

The Convergence Zone will typically form in a line from Union, WA, Everett, WA, Snohomish, WA, and up into Stevens Pass. I can often widen to include Woodinville, WA.

For aircraft, this line of storms is dangerous. They can often contain embedded thunderstorm cells or at least the worst weather in the region.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
02-12-2020 18:25
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
Spongy Iris wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I have a good sense ...

No you don't. You are a moron for thinking that temperature is a result of clouds and not the other way around.


M - O - R - O - N

Spongy Iris wrote: what would happen to temperature this time of year where I live on a clear night versus cloudy night,

Nope. Did I mention that you are a moron? Clouds form because of changing conditions, not the other way around. There are clouds in both warm and cold temperatures.

Let's just call your claim the "Clouds Have Magical Superpowers" theory. They can join CO2 in defying physics.

.
.


As far as I can tell clouds form from evaporation. And then they get blown around by wind.

Where I live, at night when it's cold, in December, if there are no clouds it's going to be close to 35 F. If there is a thick cloud cover, it's going to be close to 50 F.

It is a known weather phenomenon.

It often gets cold enough to snow, but only when there are no clouds. It never snows though, because when clouds roll in, it gets too warm.


Total BS... I grew up in Oregon, on the side of Mt. Hood, year around skiing... No clouds, no snow. Just like, no clouds, no rain... Been a long time, but the snow clouds where sort of a light-grey, and a smooth, even cover.


So my weather report is BS cuz it doesn't match MT Hood???

The weather I described is just a bit east of San Fran, at the base of Mt Diablo, around elevation 400 ft. It is pretty consistent and any weather person around here would confirm the statement is pretty accurate if you're rounding to the nearest 5.

MT Diablo will rarely get snow, but down at our elevation it pretty much never happens. But we have already gotten a few frosts this year.

MT Hood is about 7 degrees further N latitude, at a much higher elevation, and further east of ocean. The ocean fog often blankets us, but said fog probably doesn't reach MT Hood.

I grew up in the Great Canadian Shield. In the winter it's usually warmer when it snows, than when it's clear skies.

Wind speed is another factor to consider; faster wind speed cools it down more.

The weather in the San Francisco area is much like Seattle, but without the Convergence Zone, and more prevalent winds from warmer waters. Mt Diablo is not much of mountain. Around here we call that a hill.

One interesting bit about Bay Area weather, is the Bay itself. This is a fairly large body of very shallow water, and is often several degrees warmer than the Pacific Ocean off that coast due to heating from the Sun during the day. Clouds will typically come in from the ocean and cover San Francisco itself, but the warmer water causes them to evaporate again (if it's a weak cloud) and leave Oakland in clear weather while San Francisco is socked in with fog and low clouds. As the air moves further east, clouds will again form as it rises into the foothills (such as Mt Diablo). This pattern is fairly common in the Bay Area and occurs when air is near saturated with moisture and there is no stronger front moving in.

I feel sorry for ya bud. Life in the SOTC is no fun.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 02-12-2020 18:33
02-12-2020 18:50
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:I have a good sense ...

No you don't. You are a moron for thinking that temperature is a result of clouds and not the other way around.


M - O - R - O - N

Spongy Iris wrote: what would happen to temperature this time of year where I live on a clear night versus cloudy night,

Nope. Did I mention that you are a moron? Clouds form because of changing conditions, not the other way around. There are clouds in both warm and cold temperatures.

Let's just call your claim the "Clouds Have Magical Superpowers" theory. They can join CO2 in defying physics.

.
.


As far as I can tell clouds form from evaporation. And then they get blown around by wind.

Where I live, at night when it's cold, in December, if there are no clouds it's going to be close to 35 F. If there is a thick cloud cover, it's going to be close to 50 F.

It is a known weather phenomenon.

It often gets cold enough to snow, but only when there are no clouds. It never snows though, because when clouds roll in, it gets too warm.


Total BS... I grew up in Oregon, on the side of Mt. Hood, year around skiing... No clouds, no snow. Just like, no clouds, no rain... Been a long time, but the snow clouds where sort of a light-grey, and a smooth, even cover.

Sounds like you used to be up near Gresham, OR or out by Sandy? or possibly on the Dry Side like Moupin or Madras?

Snow clouds often take on a smooth even color because they are precipitating, even it's just a drizzle or are near to it, are often stratus clouds in that area. Lower temperatures allows them to form lower to the ground, too, so you get a nice close look at them.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
11-12-2020 05:01
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(584)
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
[quote]IBdaMann wrote:
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:I have
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:
It often gets cold enough to snow, but only when there are no clouds. It never snows though, because when clouds roll in, it gets too warm.

I don't know where you live. But it sound like somewhere that the laws of physics don't work.


No weather physics are being violated in a city at the foot of Mt Diablo. It never snows here. But we do get frost. On Nov 9 2020 we got some, and I snapped a pic.



Weather records show the low was 34 F, but the ground must have gotten a bit colder.
11-12-2020 05:15
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(584)
Into the Night wrote:
[quote] Mt Diablo is not much of mountain. Around here we call that a hill.


MT Diablo has a great view of fog rolling in.



This was Fathers Day 2019 at high noon. The fog looks like it made it a bit past Oakland. You can't even see the bay cuz it's covered in fog. But you can see the hill on the other side of the Bay in the distance, maybe around where the San Quentin penitentiary is.

By sunset most of that fog probably got heated enough until it dissipated.
Edited on 11-12-2020 05:21
11-12-2020 16:22
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3368)
How can you tell the difference between fog and smog? I've never been to California, to see it for myself, heard it was toxic, and caused mental issues.
11-12-2020 16:29
James___
★★★★★
(4478)
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
[quote]IBdaMann wrote:
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:I have
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:
It often gets cold enough to snow, but only when there are no clouds. It never snows though, because when clouds roll in, it gets too warm.

I don't know where you live. But it sound like somewhere that the laws of physics don't work.


No weather physics are being violated in a city at the foot of Mt Diablo. It never snows here. But we do get frost. On Nov 9 2020 we got some, and I snapped a pic.



Weather records show the low was 34 F, but the ground must have gotten a bit colder.



The frost on the ground might've been caused by warm air rising up from Mt. Diablo. That'd be one way to chill the air.
11-12-2020 16:34
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9086)
HarveyH55 wrote:How can you tell the difference between fog and smog?

The brown haze of smog is unmistakable.

Los Angeles:



Mexico City:



.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
11-12-2020 22:17
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(15506)
IBdaMann wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:How can you tell the difference between fog and smog?

The brown haze of smog is unmistakable.

Los Angeles:



Mexico City:



.


In both Lox Angeles and Mexico City, they also get a lot of dust in the air, which is also brownish in color. This can happen anywhere in any desert environment.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
11-12-2020 22:59
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(584)
James___ wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
[quote]IBdaMann wrote:
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:I have
[quote]Spongy Iris wrote:
It often gets cold enough to snow, but only when there are no clouds. It never snows though, because when clouds roll in, it gets too warm.

I don't know where you live. But it sound like somewhere that the laws of physics don't work.


No weather physics are being violated in a city at the foot of Mt Diablo. It never snows here. But we do get frost. On Nov 9 2020 we got some, and I snapped a pic.



Weather records show the low was 34 F, but the ground must have gotten a bit colder.



The frost on the ground might've been caused by warm air rising up from Mt. Diablo. That'd be one way to chill the air.


Except it hadn't rained in about 8 months as of Nov 9 2020. The grass is very yellow. Not much evaporation.

(PS that spot was close to elevation 400 or 500 feet, and still about a 17 mile drive to the summit.)
12-12-2020 17:17
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3368)
There's this thing, call, 'condensation'. You don't need rain, for water to form on you beer can, or on the ground over night. Grass gets wet, a little, from condensation, but dries up kind of quick after sunrise.

In both Lox Angeles and Mexico City, they also get a lot of dust in the air, which is also brownish in color. This can happen anywhere in any desert environment.


I've always heard that smog was air pollution, from the over-use of the 'evil' internal combustion engine. So, smog, is really just the dust, and filth, stirred up by the rats?
12-12-2020 19:59
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(9086)
Into the Night wrote:In both Lox Angeles and Mexico City, they also get a lot of dust in the air, which is also brownish in color. This can happen anywhere in any desert environment.

Yes, both LA and Mexico City are desert environments and the smog is never mistaken for fog (Harvey's original question).


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
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