overhaul

Climate-Debate.com > Discussion Forum > Climate debate in general > overhaul

overhaul22-08-2019 20:28
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	This company (country, economy, currency, climate policy) needs a major overhaul before the ocean does it for us. No socialist ideas allowed.
22-08-2019 23:03
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	keepit wrote: This company (country, economy, currency, climate policy) needs a major overhaul before the ocean does it for us. No socialist ideas allowed. You knew it was coming, i.e. Define "climate." Clarify what the ocean "will do for us." I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-08-2019 23:27
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	Sorry to be a little vague. The ocean, if it rises a significant amount will destroy many cities around the world and create economic chaos because we would have to rebuild further inland. Imagine the chaos (major overhaul).
22-08-2019 23:31
Into the Night★★★★★ (21600)	keepit wrote: This company (country, economy, currency, climate policy) needs a major overhaul before the ocean does it for us. No socialist ideas allowed. What company? What 'overhaul' do you think such company needs? What will the ocean do to perform the 'overhaul'? Why do we need a company at all if the ocean is going to do this 'overhaul' for us for free? The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
22-08-2019 23:32
Into the Night★★★★★ (21600)	keepit wrote: Sorry to be a little vague. The ocean, if it rises a significant amount will destroy many cities around the world and create economic chaos because we would have to rebuild further inland. Imagine the chaos (major overhaul). So you are saying the story of Noah is true? The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan

22-08-2019 23:34
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	keepit wrote: Sorry to be a little vague. The ocean, if it rises a significant amount will destroy many cities around the world and create economic chaos because we would have to rebuild further inland. Imagine the chaos (major overhaul). Does any human alive have a valid dataset supporting the conclusion that a catastrophic ocean rise is likely, or even possible? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-08-2019 23:47
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	You asked for a definition of climate . Here's a cynical definition - climate is that which determines sea level.
23-08-2019 01:04
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	keepit wrote: You asked for a definition of climate . Here's a cynical definition - climate is that which determines sea level. You see? Climate never changes. I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
23-08-2019 02:18
HarveyH55★★★★★ (5197)	keepit wrote: Sorry to be a little vague. The ocean, if it rises a significant amount will destroy many cities around the world and create economic chaos because we would have to rebuild further inland. Imagine the chaos (major overhaul). Well Noah, when are the oceans going to start to rise? It's been thirty or more years I've been hearing about rising sea levels. We see plenty of inland flooding, but not a whole lot of coastal flooding. I live in Florida, it's surrounded by ocean. If there was ocean rising going on, a lot of people would be complaining loudly. So far, we are mostly a 'denier' state, no big push for action on climate Change. Which could be economic, we aren't as desperate for federal money that way. Lot rich people own the ocean front property, and they always cry the loudest, and demand for something, anything, be done, at the expense of everyone else. You don't get rich, by spending your own money, if you don't have to. California, the biggest beggar state, has a lot of coastline too. They are going 'green', and are 'believers', but not complaining about coastal flooding either, and it comes straight from their bible. It's been a hot and melting summer, arctic ice, Greenland, Alaska. If there was even a hint of rising sea levels, there would be mass panic. We've been threatened for a long time, it's a sign of the apocalypse, people would be converting by the millions. It's just some crafty work with numbers, they add up as much volume of ice, as the can roughly estimate, and use that number to add to ocean water. Doesn't quit work that way. The ice sheets, which is the bulk of the melt, is already part of the ocean volume, right on top. Melting ice sheets will have no impact at all. Glaciers are mostly inland, that water has a long journey to the oceans, not all of it is going to make it. From the ice core samples, we know there is trapped air, which contributes to the volume. Air bubbles aren't going int the oceans.
23-08-2019 02:39
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	IBdaMann wrote: keepit wrote: You asked for a definition of climate . Here's a cynical definition - climate is that which determines sea level. You see? Climate never changes. So you say climate never changes as if sea level never changes but that's not true. Sea level changes drastically. The science of that is undeniable. Edited on 23-08-2019 02:40
23-08-2019 02:42
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	You can see it in the CO2 concentration (400 plus) and the relationship between CO2 conc and sea level over time. Ice core samples.
23-08-2019 03:16
Into the Night★★★★★ (21600)	keepit wrote: IBdaMann wrote: keepit wrote: You asked for a definition of climate . Here's a cynical definition - climate is that which determines sea level. You see? Climate never changes. So you say climate never changes as if sea level never changes but that's not true. Sea level changes drastically. The science of that is undeniable. What science? The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
23-08-2019 03:17
Into the Night★★★★★ (21600)	keepit wrote: You can see it in the CO2 concentration (400 plus) and the relationship between CO2 conc and sea level over time. Ice core samples. Ice cores show neither CO2 concentration nor sea level. The Parrot Killer Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
25-08-2019 03:39
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	keepit wrote:Sea level changes drastically. The science of that is undeniable. ... but you're going to admit that you don't know anything about any of that "science" beyond you being told to say what you just said, yes? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
25-08-2019 03:47
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	Well ....... i know a fair amount of stuff but it's never enough.

25-08-2019 04:10
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	keepit wrote: Well ....... i know a fair amount of stuff but it's never enough. The point is that the history of the sea level is not known to anyone. There is no "science" about earth's sea level. As far as anyone knows, the earth's sea level could have always been what it is today. Anyone claiming otherwise, i.e. to somehow "know" something about it, anything at all, is lying. I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
25-08-2019 04:45
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	They're not lying. Geology isn't a mysterious science. They go out there and look at evidence of various levels of the sea and correlate it to various times. Then they correlate the times to ice core evidence which tells them CO2 levels at that time. Noyt to be overly cynical but something like a certain sea creature at a certain location above sea level can be evidence of the sea level being that high. I'm sure the geologists get more sophisticated than that though. Edited on 25-08-2019 04:48
25-08-2019 05:39
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	keepit wrote: They're not lying. Who are "they" for whom you pretend to speak? Will you be bringing any of "them" to this forum to respond to questions? You get bonus points if you can get Subduction Zone to come here for cross examination. keepit wrote: Geology isn't a mysterious science. You have now piqued my interest. What do you believe they "know" about the history of the sea level? keepit wrote: They go out there and look at evidence of various levels of the sea and correlate it to various times. Which they cannot do because they do not know the history of ground levels to any useful accuracy either. They don't have time machines! They can't go back in time and check. They sit around and SPECULATE. I don't think you quite understand that. tmiddles has that problem as well. When a geologist speculates, his specuation doesn't transform into "science" or into "what we know" just because he's a geologist. I don't know how else to explain that to you. keepit wrote: Then they correlate the times to ice core evidence which tells them CO2 levels at that time. I'm willing to believe that a rough estimate with a high margin of error can be obtained concerning some general atmospheric conditions during a roughly estimated time period with a somewhat high margin of error at that exact spot ... and that pertains to sea level how? keepit wrote: Noyt to be overly cynical but something like a certain sea creature at a certain location above sea level can be evidence of the sea level being that high. Are you aware that land elevation changes? Are you aware that mountains form? Are you aware that land sinks? Land that was under water and thereby incurred a marine fossil, and that later rose to become the top of a mountain, is not evidence that the sea level was ever at that mountainous elevation ... but that the mountain formed ... which any reasonable person would conclude by noticing that there's a mountain there. Hello! keepit wrote: I'm sure the geologists get more sophisticated than that though. Yes, and you are "sure" of many erroneous things. I think we could really open your eyes if you were to bring a geologist to this forum to talk about this. How about it? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
25-08-2019 06:34
HarveyH55★★★★★ (5197)	Wonder what Noah would say about climate change, and rising sea levels...
25-08-2019 06:48
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	HarveyH55 wrote: Wonder what Noah would say about climate change, and rising sea levels... I'll tell you exact;y what Noah would say: "You fugging warmizombies are calling me a liar for recounting how the sea level rose 15 cubits and how extreme weather killed all the life on the planet and telling me that something like that is totally impossible and that only a moron would believe my story, and then you have the nerve to call me a stupid denier for not believing that the sea level will rise 15 cubits by the end of the century and that extreme weather will kill all life on the planet." Noah might also ask tmiddles how his "debunking" of the 2nd law of thermodynamics is working out for him. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
25-08-2019 10:32
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	IBDM, Someone bought you books, someone sent you to school, and yet you ask questions like those? I don't believe you. Anyway, when the ice builds up and the oceans cool, the ocean shrinks, and conversely, when the ice melts and the oceans warm up, the oceans expand. You don't actually think that ice and land move exactly in conjunction and will save population centers at the shoreline from flooding?
25-08-2019 11:34
tmiddles★★★★★ (3979)	keepit wrote: Geology isn't a mysterious science. I thought this was interesting. There are of course a lot of different clues to the ancient past and this is one: Stalagmite from cave with 200,000 years of layers gives clues I think one tricky bit with evidence of lower sea levels is that it would be underwater : )
25-08-2019 17:16
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	tmiddles wrote:I think one tricky bit with evidence of lower sea levels is that it would be underwater : ) It's evidence that the ground might have been under water at one point. It could also be a hoax, we don't know. We know that the ground level in any particular spot changes due to geological activity but we don't know that sea level changes or that it has ever changed to any noticeable/measurable/substantive degree. So having been under water but then being above water affirms the trivial, that the ground elevation at that spot changed just like it has at all the other spots. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
25-08-2019 17:56
HarveyH55★★★★★ (5197)	keepit wrote: IBDM, Someone bought you books, someone sent you to school, and yet you ask questions like those? I don't believe you. Anyway, when the ice builds up and the oceans cool, the ocean shrinks, and conversely, when the ice melts and the oceans warm up, the oceans expand. You don't actually think that ice and land move exactly in conjunction and will save population centers at the shoreline from flooding? Ice on top of oceans, is still part the ocean, doesn't change the water level one bit. There are a lot places around the world, that were once seas, and now dry. How do you figure that happened? Not all mountains were formed by volcanoes either. Ice melts every summer, sometime quite a lot. How come it doesn't have a huge impact on coastal flooding around the world. Wouldn't there be a problem on every coastline, everywhere on Earth during the summer months, pretty much every year? and in the winter, when the oceans contracted, wouldn't boats docked, be sitting on the bottom? Wouldn't the boat launches be noticeably longer, to get down where the boat will float off the trailer? I still have no understanding how they are measuring sea levels, and know how much it rises, or shrinks. The water is always in motion. Even siting on a boat, seas calm, there is still some noticeable motion. Most of the time there are waves, tide comes in, goes out, regular, always.
25-08-2019 18:00
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	Harvey, I was talking about land ice.
25-08-2019 18:25
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	keepit wrote:IBDM, Someone bought you books, someone sent you to school, and yet you ask questions like those? I don't believe you. So let's be clear, you are calling me stupid and uneducated for asking "questions like those". Would you mind specifying to which questions you were referring? keepit wrote:Anyway, when the ice builds up and the oceans cool, the ocean shrinks, ... Hey scientific genius, I hate to question your brilliant magnificence with my uneducated stupidity, but is it not the case that for every place on earth in which the ocean is cooling and "shrinking" that there is a corresponding place on earth in which the ocean is warming and "expanding" to exactly the same extent? Doesn't that lead your majesty to conclude that the sea level cannot change or is there something that we lowliest of dregs are failing to grasp my liege? . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
25-08-2019 19:40
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	IBDM, I said i didn't believe your questions! Someone with your smarts couldn't really ask those questions in seriousness. I wrote that post in the middle of the night when had gotten up (on saturday night) to take my blood pressure pill. Sorry if you took it in a bad way! Edited on 25-08-2019 19:46
25-08-2019 19:50
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	IBDM, I don't think there is a corresponding cooling (or shrinking). I think when it is cooling it is generally cooling and the same with heating.
25-08-2019 20:16
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	keepit wrote: IBDM, I don't think there is a corresponding cooling (or shrinking). I think when it is cooling it is generally cooling and the same with heating. It is odd that you don't believe that the ocean is connected with itself, that where it is winter in one place it is summer elsewhere. Maybe you don't understand that the earth is more of a round sphere than a flat pancake shape. It is odd that you think there is only summer in the world with its warming and that there somehow isn't a corresponding winter elsewhere with all its cooling. With that kind of hosed misunderstanding of the world, I can see why you think there is Global Warming. It all kind of makes sense now. . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
25-08-2019 20:44
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	quote Are you aware that land elevation changes? Are you aware that mountains form? Are you aware that land sinks? Land that was under water and thereby incurred a marine fossil, and that later rose to become the top of a mountain, is not evidence that the sea level was ever at that mountainous elevation ... but that the mountain formed ... which any reasonable person would conclude by noticing that there's a mountain there. Hello! Edited on 25-08-2019 20:48

26-08-2019 00:02
tmiddles★★★★★ (3979)	IBdaMann wrote:every place on earth in which the ocean is cooling and "shrinking" that there is a corresponding place on earth in which the ocean is warming and "expanding" to exactly the same extent? Why on Earth, ha ha , would that happen? The LAW OF EVEN STEVEN ??
26-08-2019 00:58
IBdaMann★★★★★ (14416)	tmiddles wrote:Why on Earth, ha ha , would that happen? The LAW OF EVEN STEVEN ?? I don't know, you tell me. It is what it is. There is no "why." . I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :sigh* Not the "raw data" crap.* - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
26-08-2019 01:52
keepit ★★★★★ (3060)	I like the forest and the trees thing.

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