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Ocean currents are speeding up faster than scientists predicted


Ocean currents are speeding up faster than scientists predicted17-02-2020 09:39
CzarnyZajaczek
☆☆☆☆☆
(23)
https://theweek.com/speedreads/893919/ocean-currents-are-speeding-faster-than-scientists-predicted
Climate models predicted that ocean currents will start to speed up at the end of current century, but it appears that it already occurs.

https://www.livescience.com/ocean-currents-speeding-up.html
Winds over the ocean increase 1.9% per decade, ocean currents speed up 5% per decade.

"While we expected some response to the increased winds over the past two decades, that the acceleration was above and beyond that was an unexpected response that is likely due to global climate change."


Aerodynamic drag is different than dry friction. Dry friction between two solids causes force nearly independent on speed. Force caused by drag of laminar flow is proportional to speed, and force caused by drag of turbulent flow is proportional to squared velocity.

As wind blows over sea surface with waves:
* slow wind speed has laminar flow
* faster wind will cause some turbulence, increasing drag significantly, even if waves size didn't changed
* faster wind will also cause much larger waves, further increasing drag (increase of surface roughness)

Since ocean currents transport large amounts of heat from tropical regions, faster than anticipated acceleration will have large impact on weather changes predicted by climate change models.

Also, I'm not sure how it will affect Antarctica. Acceleration of currents may potentially slightly slow down melting of Antarctica, since Antarctic Circumpolar Current keeps warm ocean waters away from Antarctica, but only if not disrupted by this acceleration:
* for example, acceleration may cause that border between East Wind Drift and West Wind Drift will shift further away from south pole with potential disruption of flow at tip of South Africa
* or East Wind Drift current directed by Antarctic Peninsula, when accelerated, might not return to rotation around Antarctica but connect with West Wind Drift instead, causing increased heat transport to Antarctica

Faster oceanic currents may mean that water vapor feedback is stronger than previously thought, since currents transport warm water to cooler regions where they increase water vapor amount in air by evaporation and heating air. In this context current IPCC predictions may turn out to be overly conservative.


Greasemonkey script to filter out denialists on this forum: https://www.climate-debate.com/forum/there-are-some-paid-climate-deniers-in-this-forum-to-spread-false-information-ignore-them-d6-e2989-s80.php#post_52483
17-02-2020 10:36
HarveyH55
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(1775)
Reads like typical global warming BS, like the weakening Norwegian Jetstream. If the winds are moving warm water, cold water is also moving. It's all water, in the same vessel. Increasing the air flow, moves heat away from a warmer surface faster. Warm water gets cooler faster. It all balances out in the end, and there is still basically only the energy coming from the sun, moves in, moves out, same as always. It's really more about tunnel vision, just focusing on one side of the equation, while ignoring the cooling side. Cleaver wording, to sell an ideal, to attract research funding, general spent on other side projects.
17-02-2020 11:29
duncan61
★☆☆☆☆
(98)
The words [ that is likely due to global climate change.] Should not be used in this debate it either is or is not.Its all suggestive.How the hell did they measure ocean currents at 2000 metres and then claim they sped up last week
17-02-2020 12:08
James___
★★★★★
(2472)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Reads like typical global warming BS, like the weakening Norwegian Jetstream. If the winds are moving warm water, cold water is also moving. It's all water, in the same vessel. Increasing the air flow, moves heat away from a warmer surface faster. Warm water gets cooler faster. It all balances out in the end, and there is still basically only the energy coming from the sun, moves in, moves out, same as always. It's really more about tunnel vision, just focusing on one side of the equation, while ignoring the cooling side. Cleaver wording, to sell an ideal, to attract research funding, general spent on other side projects.



Harvey, I wish you learn a little bit more about our planet, just a teensy, tiny little bit, okay? People can learn something from the Norwegian Jet Stream. That's because it suggests that it ends much further south.
Since sometime last year the jet stream over the Atlantic Ocean is what's known as the "Pineapple Express" because it goes over Hawai'i basically. Usually it'd be further north and maybe go across southern British Columbia, Canada before dipping down into the contiguous United States between the Cascade and Rocky mountain chains.
What it should look like; http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XK7JEDI8rJU/UGsz4xhQxkI/AAAAAAAAAoI/EuGEm-WRIiI/s1600/jet_streams_Polar&Sub.jpg

And this shows the current polar and tropical jet streams of the northern hemisphere, ie., now; http://www.stormsurfing.com/cgi/display_alt.cgi?a=natla_250

Please note that the polar jet stream is above the tropical jet stream. And with the Norwegian Jet Stream, the polar jet stream became the tropical jet stream. And while it started above Norway, it ended in the eastern Mediterranean Sea.

Edited on 17-02-2020 12:13
17-02-2020 14:55
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(6270)
CzarnyZajaczek wrote:
"Ocean currents are speeding up faster than scientists predicted"

Are you telling me that you dedicated a thread to calling out bonehead scientists? Who are these scientists that got it wrong? Are they even scientists? If they are then clearly they need to have their credentials pulled.

CzarnyZajaczek wrote: Climate models predicted that ocean currents will start to speed up at the end of current century, but it appears that it already occurs.

Aaaah, it was just a computer that was misprogrammed. That's totally different.

CzarnyZajaczek wrote: Winds over the ocean increase 1.9% per decade, ocean currents speed up 5% per decade.

That must be a fascinating dataset to measure all the world's winds with zero margin of error! Would you post that dataset for everyone's benefit?

CzarnyZajaczek wrote: Dry friction between two solids causes force nearly independent on speed. Force caused by drag of laminar flow is proportional to speed, and force caused by drag of turbulent flow is proportional to squared velocity.

The two are essentially the same, i.e. a coefficient of friction/drag plus a contact force/pressure.

The only difference is that solids only slide laterally and don't serve to "block" movement from/in the front. Gases however do. When you drive your car, you drive into air that collides with the front of the car (and other edges/parts moving forward).

CzarnyZajaczek wrote: Since ocean currents transport large amounts of heat from tropical regions,

Ocean currents transport large amounts of WATER from tropical regions. Heat might be generated in some parts, and decreased in others, by the transportation of water, but currents transport water. Really. I'm not making this up.

CzarnyZajaczek wrote: faster than anticipated acceleration will have large impact on weather changes predicted by climate change models.

You have already explained how the computer programs are worthless and how the researchers are morons. I think we all appreciate you bringing this to our attention.

CzarnyZajaczek wrote: Also, I'm not sure how it will affect Antarctica.

I don't think anyone knows for sure, but the extent of any change will likely converge on zero.

CzarnyZajaczek wrote: Faster oceanic currents may mean that water vapor feedback is stronger than previously thought, ...


"water vapor feedback"? Thank you. The MANUAL has been updated.

Feedback: noun
A feedback is a specific type of forcing employed by Climate that overcomes the physical limitations of the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics by creating additional usable energy. Feedbacks come in various subcategories, e.g. thermal, climate, hydrostatic, radiative, water vapor, etc... This falls under Settled Science.


.


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