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Key threats of climate change.



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20-10-2015 04:56
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
trafn wrote: @Into the Night - but data is not everything:

...but you endeavored to create a falsifiable model so you could call it "science."


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-10-2015 05:06
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdaMann - endeavored? If I'm not mistaken, I'm still waiting for your response. As we left it, you locked the whole thing up in calculus and just walked away. Of course, then Into the Night had to wind the whole thing into a wad of undefined circuitous logic, which was followed by TtD throwing in his two worthless cents. Oh well, guess that one's a lost cause.

By the way, speaking of falsifiable models, how about trying to finish this one yourself (if you're up to it):

http://www.climate-debate.com/forum/can-petrochemicals-exist-in-a-carbon-neutral-world-d9-e759.php#post_3526


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
20-10-2015 05:27
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
trafn wrote:
@IBdaMann - endeavored? If I'm not mistaken, I'm still waiting for your response. As we left it, you locked the whole thing up in calculus and just walked away.

I'm waiting for you to tell me what you think so we can move to the next step.

trafn wrote: By the way, speaking of falsifiable models, how about trying to finish this one yourself (if you're up to it):

Addressed. That ball in your court...is in your court.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-10-2015 10:45
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1295)
trafn wrote:
@Tim the plumber - ask a serious question that's not redundant or time-worn, and you'll get a serious answer.


I ask you what the principal threats of global warming are and what you have to support the existance of these and the best you can do is this??

You must understand how vacuous your argument is.
20-10-2015 10:46
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1295)
trafn wrote:
@IBdaMann - endeavored? If I'm not mistaken, I'm still waiting for your response. As we left it, you locked the whole thing up in calculus and just walked away. Of course, then Into the Night had to wind the whole thing into a wad of undefined circuitous logic, which was followed by TtD throwing in his two worthless cents. Oh well, guess that one's a lost cause.

By the way, speaking of falsifiable models, how about trying to finish this one yourself (if you're up to it):

http://www.climate-debate.com/forum/can-petrochemicals-exist-in-a-carbon-neutral-world-d9-e759.php#post_3526


I did calculus. I have not seen any significant maths here at all.
20-10-2015 13:11
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
Tim the plumber I did calculus. I have not seen any significant maths here at all.

Falsifiable models mostly involve definitions and relationships.

Models are used in calculations, not really the other way around.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
20-10-2015 17:29
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@Tim the Plumber - well, like I've said before, I got into all this back in the 90's when I too took issue with the whole CO2 based AGW thing with people citing minuscule temperature changes in the X.000 ranges. After all, on a good day, one of my own farts causes regional thermal fluctuations in those ranges (i.e. - don't hang out with me on franks-and-beans night).

That's when I realized everyone was putting the cart before the horse, and that what we were experiencing wasn't AGW (not yet, at least), but global phase change instead (turning all the planet's major ice and snow reserves into liquid water).

Once I realized this, I was off to the races and wrote my first paper (independently as you noted) in 2007, and then my first book in 2014 on this topic.

Personally, I'd love your opinions, comments, corrections, etc. on the first edition of the book which I'll attach below in the hopes that you'll provide a little more comprehensive feedback beyond "This things entirely sucks!"

PS - as I've always said, please feel free to share the book with anyone you choose.
Attached file:
burstingtheatmosphere_1stedition2014_5.pdf
20-10-2015 18:29
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1295)
My comments are highly likely to upset you.

I will not be shy of saying that it is a load of gobberish if I think it is and from what you have just written I expect it is.

If you consider a mountain with ice on it the limit of the ice, in stable conditions, will be at a certain point or line on the sdie of the mountain. If the temperature increases by 1 degree c the altitude of that line will, eventually, retreat up 200m. That's just how it works. 100m rise in altitude will cause a 1/2 c temperature drop due to the change in air pressure.

If the climate warms up 1 degree c then the ice line will move up 200m. I say it again because it is the central reason why Greenland's ice is 99.9% utterly safe unless there is a 18c increase in temperature.

Antarctica will need a 20c increase before I need even work out which bits will be at all vulnerable to more increases. Everything there (except the penisular) is so cold it is very very safe.

In a similar way of thinking permafrost is currently melting. Well, yes, but the fringes of the range of it are melting back a little. Perhaps 3% might melt. Maybe. If it warms further then a little more would go.

I don't see why the present 12.9 Gt/year melt rate from Greenland is going to do anything other than slow down as the new stable point is reached.
20-10-2015 18:48
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@Tim the plumber - I'm not sure if your post above is referring to anything specific in my text, or they're just statements of your current position on the subject of M2C2. Let me make two suggestions:

1. If possible, cite specifically what you are addressing in my text (page/paragraph number if possible) so I can respond in that context to you.

2. Consider if you're current position is one that is based on linear acceleration or exponential acceleration of M2C2 factors. My thesis is based upon exponential acceleration.


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!

Edited on 20-10-2015 18:51
20-10-2015 20:50
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
trafn wrote:2. Consider if you're current position is one that is based on linear acceleration or exponential acceleration of M2C2 factors. My thesis is based upon exponential acceleration.

So now you're telling me that in addition to M2C2 (whatever that is) being able to accelerate, that M2C2 factors can also accelerate as well?

OK, I'll bite. How do M2C2 factors accelerate?

If an M2C2 factor pulls up beside its M2C2 and challenges to a race for pink slips, who has the better acceleration and who has the higher top speed?

Oh, does M2C2 have a prime factor?

Oh, I don't recall your thesis offering either a linear equation for acceleration or an exponential one. Did I just overlook it? Do M2C2 factors have differing acceleration as compared to the M2C2 overall?
20-10-2015 21:22
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdaMarxistMann - my M2C2 thesis has both a supercharged and turbocharged, dual overhead cam, 1913, Louis Coatalen original 12 cylinder bored out engine (one of his non-production DOHC prototypes) paired with a '69 GM TH350 slush-box tranny.

What's your thesis got?


By the way, I see you didn't read my book after all. It has an entire chapter titled "Exponentials."



The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
21-10-2015 04:06
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
trafn wrote:By the way, I see you didn't read my book after all. It has an entire chapter titled "Exponentials."

That's not what I pointed out. I wrote:

Oh, I don't recall your thesis offering either a linear equation for acceleration or an exponential one. Did I just overlook it?


I didn't see any equation(s). Did I miss it/them? How do you know it is exponential?

I also asked:

Do M2C2 factors have differing acceleration as compared to the M2C2 overall?


Maybe M2C2 does not have exponential acceleration, only some of its factors.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 21-10-2015 04:07
21-10-2015 06:51
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdasMarxistischeMensch - you stated That's not what I pointed out.

Yes, that's exactly what you just pointed out, kiddo!

I shared my prized tome with you (a deluxe free edition if I might add), and you blatantly disregarded it. Had you have read it, you would not have made such a hurtful and callous comment regarding my supercharged-turbocharged thesis and exponentials.

Well, all I can say is, I've had it! That's the last time you'll ever abuse me. I'm taking the children and going back home to mother!

On second thought, the children all look like you, so you can keep them.

That leaves me only one option: life has become so cruel with you that I'm going to end it all by jumping off a bridge!

Now let's see, where can I find the tiniest bridge in the world?

* - I've temporarily adjusted your moniker to honor it being National Socialist Science Month in Germany.


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!

Edited on 21-10-2015 07:00
21-10-2015 13:19
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
trafn wrote:
That leaves me only one option: life has become so cruel with you that I'm going to end it all by jumping off a bridge!

Now let's see, where can I find the tiniest bridge in the world?
.


[img]www.lovethesepics.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Green-Lake-underwater-bridge.jpg[/img]


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Edited on 21-10-2015 13:21
21-10-2015 15:17
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdasMarxistischeMensch* - nice choice! And how scenic. A real 2-for-1 bargain. Who knew?

By the way, do you think it will hurt when I hit the bottom?

Oh well, I'm off. Say farewell to the children for me.

* - I've temporarily adjusted your moniker to honor it being National Socialist Science Month in Germany.


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
21-10-2015 15:19
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1295)
trafn wrote:
@Tim the plumber - I'm not sure if your post above is referring to anything specific in my text, or they're just statements of your current position on the subject of M2C2. Let me make two suggestions:

1. If possible, cite specifically what you are addressing in my text (page/paragraph number if possible) so I can respond in that context to you.

2. Consider if you're current position is one that is based on linear acceleration or exponential acceleration of M2C2 factors. My thesis is based upon exponential acceleration.


I have not read your thesis because there is no point.

Your use of exponential acceleration is the problem. It is wrong. It is drivel.

You will need to show the mechanism which will produce such a thing. A line on a graph is not enough. You will need to show examples where you can predict what ice will melt with what temperature change and what this will mean for the albedo of that area, what that will do in terms of shifting the snow line, by how much in altitude that will alter it and thus how much in actual land area.

If you were to do those things you would see that there is no possibility of this exponential rise. That almost all the ice on the earth is very difficult to melt and even if you do melt some of it the next bit is even harder. That's why it is still around despite such things as the medeval warm peroid.
21-10-2015 15:58
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@Tim the Drivel Queen - your persistent negative characterization of something you haven't even read has now earned you a new monicker.

Sadly, your request that I predict the future in its entirety for you to be satisfied that there is any possibility of something occurring is beyond the reach of science itself.

Have you considered contacting your local magician?


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
22-10-2015 03:27
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@climate scientist, Ceist and Tototo only - the original topic of this thread was what is the real threat in M2C2. Is it CO2 or something else, or perhaps nothing? I've already suggested that CO2 is not the primary threat, but merely the primer for more dangerous things like nithane? What are your thoughts?


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
22-10-2015 05:34
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
Tim the plumber wrote:
You will need to show the mechanism which will produce such a thing. A line on a graph is not enough. You will need to show examples where you can predict what ice will melt with what temperature change and what this will mean for the albedo of that area, what that will do in terms of shifting the snow line, by how much in altitude that will alter it and thus how much in actual land area.


Tim the Plumber, everything you wrote in the paragraph above is pretty much spot on. I have a question for you. Do you believe earth's "albedo" can be known, given today's technology and available resources? If you answer in the affirmative, how do you imagine this being possible?

trafn, I notice your book makes no mention of earth's "albedo." Does "albedo" play no role in your version of that whole Global Warming thing?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-10-2015 10:21
climate scientist
★★☆☆☆
(257)
@ Ceist, Tototo and trafn only

This is a really hard question to answer. There are several options in my opinion, but I guess the key ones for me are sea level rise and food shortages (arising from weather related changes).

But this is assuming that no unknown or unaccounted for feedback processes really take off. Such as the release of methane from Arctic hydrates, for example. That would change things quite a bit I think. Also, if the oceans started to stagnate, this would be a huge problem. We know that this has happened in the past in Earth's history, so it is very possible that it could happen again.
22-10-2015 11:01
Totototo
★☆☆☆☆
(117)
@climate scientist - Regarding food shortages, there's a book called "Climate Wars" by a german sociologist (can't remember his name) and it talks a bit about that from the little I read. Has anyone here read it? Would you recommend it if that's the case?

PS: It's a badass scary title, "Climate Wars: What People Will Be Killed For in the 21st Century"
22-10-2015 13:03
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1295)
Totototo wrote:
@climate scientist - Regarding food shortages, there's a book called "Climate Wars" by a german sociologist (can't remember his name) and it talks a bit about that from the little I read. Has anyone here read it? Would you recommend it if that's the case?

PS: It's a badass scary title, "Climate Wars: What People Will Be Killed For in the 21st Century"


It is easier to grow food in a warm place.

If you can use hydroponics in a rich world you can have practially unlimited food.

Rich people in Alaska will not starve even if they have to build greenhouses heated with gas.

Poor people in tropical bread baskets are starving now due to the use of food as fuel as a disguised farming subsidy. Tens of millions per year. Just evil.
22-10-2015 13:39
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
Tim the plumber wrote:
Totototo wrote:
@climate scientist - Regarding food shortages, there's a book called "Climate Wars" by a german sociologist (can't remember his name) and it talks a bit about that from the little I read. Has anyone here read it? Would you recommend it if that's the case?

PS: It's a badass scary title, "Climate Wars: What People Will Be Killed For in the 21st Century"


It is easier to grow food in a warm place.

If you can use hydroponics in a rich world you can have practially unlimited food.

Rich people in Alaska will not starve even if they have to build greenhouses heated with gas.

Poor people in tropical bread baskets are starving now due to the use of food as fuel as a disguised farming subsidy. Tens of millions per year. Just evil.


So, at a minimum, Global Warming involves damaging economic policies, yes? Shouldn't we refer to Global Warming as economic pollution?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-10-2015 13:50
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
climate scientist wrote: There are several options in my opinion, but I guess the key ones for me are sea level rise and food shortages (arising from weather related changes).But this is assuming that no unknown or unaccounted for feedback processes really take off.


What does a struggle to maintain complete unfalsifiability look like? What does fighting to remain completely uncommitted to anything verifiable look like?

The quote above is probably the best example I've seen this year.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-10-2015 18:19
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1295)
IBdaMann wrote:

So, at a minimum, Global Warming involves damaging economic policies, yes? Shouldn't we refer to Global Warming as economic pollution?


Over re-action to a none problem causes extreme suffering and poverty.

Science is a very powerful word when it is mis-used it has powerful consequences.

Today people are dying from hunger related causes at an increased rate over that highest rate of deaths in WW II.

This is due to a fashion/guilt complex idea popular in some circles.
22-10-2015 18:53
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@climate scientist, Ceist and Tototo only:

- climate scientist: yes, the implications seem to go off in hundreds of different directions. And the methane wild-card is a very real one which I've tried to include in my nithane discussion. Overall, I think there is nothing positive to be gained by ignoring M2C2. While there are hazards in addressing any new, overwhelming, and dangerous situation, I think our best hope is to do so eyes-wide-open instead of head-in-sand.

- Totototo: sounds like a fascinating and scary book. Yet, it is critical to look at both the comfortable and the uncomfortable, lest we overlook fore-seeing what ultimately does happen.


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
22-10-2015 20:50
climate scientist
★★☆☆☆
(257)
@Totototo

I haven't come across this book, so I'm afraid that I can't really comment on it.

@ trafn

I'm all for eyes-wide-open. There are lots of benefits to be gained from taking measures to reduce climate change, regardless of whether you think it is happening or not. One example would be improved energy security. A lot of European countries are quite dependent on buying fossil fuels in from Russia when demand exceeds supply, for example.
22-10-2015 20:55
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
climate scientist wrote:There are lots of benefits to be gained from taking measures to reduce climate change, regardless of whether you think it is happening or not.


? ? ?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
23-10-2015 00:15
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@all constructive contributors:

- climate scientist: energy security would be a very important issue to consider when addressing M2C2. It may, in fact, be a key issue at the Paris meeting. How can you get a country to agree to carbon modifications if it jeopardizes their energy security. There will have to be many options on the table there.

Do you know if they've published a schedule or agenda yet?


The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!

Edited on 23-10-2015 00:44
23-10-2015 02:49
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
trafn wrote:How can you get a country to agree to carbon modifications if it jeopardizes their energy security.

There's no reason of which I can think anyone would want to poison their economy with economic pollution.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
23-10-2015 06:15
Totototo
★☆☆☆☆
(117)
@trand, climate scientist
I'm planning on buying it, so I'll let you know when I read it.
23-10-2015 10:40
climate scientist
★★☆☆☆
(257)
@ trafn

I am not aware of an agenda yet, or at least not one that is available to the public. I will let you know if I hear otherwise.
23-10-2015 16:08
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(5229)
climate scientist wrote:
@ trafn
I am not aware of an agenda yet, or at least not one that is available to the public. I will let you know if I hear otherwise.


The agenda is out.

Free Paris vacation! (aka "Climate Conference")

Day 1: (morning) leisurely wake-up. Hotel-supplied breakfast. Conversations.
Day 1: (afternoon) sightseeing...to look at the climate from different angles.
Day 1: (evening) dinner, drinks, carousing.
Day 2: repeat Day 1
Day 3: repeat Day 1
Day 4: repeat Day 1
etc...



Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
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