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21-07-2019 23:06
keepit
★★★★☆
(1630)
Some women would rather work at some jobs than raise children. That's all i'm saying.
21-07-2019 23:15
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
keepit wrote:
Some women would rather work at some jobs than raise children. That's all i'm saying.

Then you were just throwing a random thought into the thread.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
21-07-2019 23:21
keepit
★★★★☆
(1630)
I wasn't meaning to be random. I meant it as a reason that education of women has proven to be a deterant to population growth. It's an uphill battle though.
According to my limited understanding of quantum theory, even thoughts have a statistical basis of occurring.
22-07-2019 00:01
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3324)
keepit wrote:
education of women has proven to be a deterant to population growth.


You are very right that education is one of the biggest determinants of how many children a woman will have. One of the biggest reasons that population growth has been curbed though is the efficacy and availability of birth control. In the 1950s the average woman on Earth had 5 and 1/2 children. That's five and a half children per woman! So one woman was unmarried and ever had any children and another woman made up for it by having 11 children and so on. The average is currently 2 and 1/2. India is the only country in the world with the birth rate that's causing the population to grow.

The reason the population hasnt already leveled off is because of the extended life span that our prosperity has made possible.

What's interesting though is not only do you never hear human population decline in the future when people discuss environmental issues but very few people are even aware of this Plunge in birth rate.
Edited on 22-07-2019 00:10
22-07-2019 00:09
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3324)
.
Edited on 22-07-2019 00:53
22-07-2019 00:49
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
tmiddles wrote:It's the biggest story relevant to the environment or anything really that no one ever talks about.

... but does it have any bearing on "Climate"? There doesn't appear to be.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-07-2019 00:53
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
keepit wrote: I wasn't meaning to be random. I meant it as a reason that education of women has proven to be a deterant to population growth.

But it's not. Financial situation is the primary factor. Education of women is not, although it is one of the many sub-factors in indiviual financial status.

keepit wrote: According to my limited understanding of quantum theory, even thoughts have a statistical basis of occurring.

Yes, they can be random.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-07-2019 00:53
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3324)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Personally, I blame welfare, and all the free money ... so mom and dad can afford another kid or two, ,


We've flipped from China having a one child policy to a world where governments need to encourage more births:
Russia pays you to have kids

"Between 1992 and 2009, the country lost about six million people, or four per cent of its population."

"Since 2007, extra money has been given to parents on the birth of their second and third children. A special prize – the Order of Parental Glory – was established in 2008."

It's the biggest story relevant to the environment or anything really that no one ever talks about.
22-07-2019 01:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
tmiddles wrote:You are very right that education is one of the biggest determinants of how many children a woman will have.

No it's not, but that isn't even what he was saying. His erroneous contention is that educating women as a class, not improving economic conditions, will reduce/eliminate population growth.

tmiddles wrote: One of the biggest reasons that population growth has been curbed though is the efficacy and availability of birth control.

Incorrect. Birth control has only allowed women a choice as to when they have their children but there is zero evidence that the existence of birth control has significantly altered the number of children women ultimately have, and thus there is zero evidence that birth control has had any effect on population growth.

tmiddles wrote: In the 1950s the average woman on Earth had 5 and 1/2 children. ...[snip] ... The average is currently 2 and 1/2.

So after the Depression the US was rather poor, economically, not nearly as wealthy as today. As I said, financial situation is the primary factor.

tmiddles wrote: India is the only country in the world with the birth rate that's causing the population to grow.

Hold on, birth rate does not equal population growth. There is no such thing as a birth rate that causes population growth. Population growth is a function of both births and deaths. There's a subtraction operation in there as well.

Niger has the highest birth rate (around 7) and an annual population growth of about 4%.

Somalia, on the other hand, is second with a birthrate around 6 yet its population is decreasing. Many deaths are involved in that equation.

tmiddles wrote: The reason the population hasnt already leveled off is because of the extended life span that our prosperity has made possible.

Not in Somalia. Economics is the primary factor. In Somalia and Niger there is unbelievable poverty and thus we should expect those high birth rates. In the US we have amazing wealth and we have a birth rate of around 2.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-07-2019 01:45
keepit
★★★★☆
(1630)
Well, population control does have an effect on global warming because the more people on earth, the more money is spent, the more CO2 is produced, the more thermal energy is trapped here.
I know, i know, you think CO2 doesn't have an effect on climate but it does and that is why education of women does pertain to global warming.

Often wrong, never in doubt!
Edited on 22-07-2019 01:49
22-07-2019 01:51
keepit
★★★★☆
(1630)
IBDaMann,
I wasn't actually intending to bring economic conditions into the issue. It is a factor though, but just a distraction from the issue of educating women.

Often wrong, never in doubt!
22-07-2019 02:44
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
keepit wrote:It is a factor though, but just a distraction from the issue of educating women.

"Educating women" is just a distraction from the issue of reducing population growth and has nothing to do with "Climate."


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-07-2019 02:57
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3324)
keepit wrote:
Well, population control does have an effect on global warming because the more people on earth, the more money is spent


That's a good point. We will likely have fewer people but they'll be much much richer so the carbon use could actually go way up in spite of the lower population. That seems most likely right now.
22-07-2019 03:08
keepit
★★★★☆
(1630)
I see your point TMID. It going to take a reduction in population AND a reduction in spending
22-07-2019 03:29
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3324)
keepit wrote:...AND a reduction in spending


Well I think we can change things to manage the climate succesfully. I'm very pro nuclear energy for that reason. I believe it's safe and the public hysteria about it is misplaced. Nuclear power is entirely carbon and greenhouse neutral. It has no impact whatsoever on greenhouse gases. We could shift the entire worlds power supply over to it and we should.

We can also spend a lot of our wealth on offsetting things. Sequestering carbon from plants we grow ect. Making as much as we can out of wood : )
Edited on 22-07-2019 03:30
22-07-2019 03:37
keepit
★★★★☆
(1630)
That's all good. I just hope it isn't too late to prevent a lot of damagex and lives lost.
How do we know when it's too late?
22-07-2019 03:47
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3324)
keepit wrote:
How do we know when it's too late?


My understanding is that we are doing something unprecedented getting CO2 levels so high, so that's scary because we're not really sure what's going to happen. However the Earth's been struck by meteorites something killed the dinosaurs and crazyshit has happened in the past. So I can't think of a credible explanation for how this spells doomsday or the end of the Earth or anything so dramatic. The most likely scenario seems to be that we will start to run into some real problems but nothing devastating.

Its been way higher than normal for a while now and nothing dramatic is happening.

Also there are natural feedback mechanisms the Earth has. CO2 is absorbed into the ocean and plants use it of course. Harvey brought this up which is very interesting!. We talked about it in Venus is hotter than Mercury thread.
NASA co2 making more plants grow
Edited on 22-07-2019 03:51
22-07-2019 05:22
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
tmiddles wrote: My understanding is ...

... devoid of any of that inconvenient science crap...

tmiddles wrote: that we are doing something unprecedented ...


From The MANUAL:

Unprecedented: adjective
Per the Global Warming lexicon, whenever an ordinary or otherwise non-exceptional event occurs that some Climate Scientist wishes to imply requires a "Settled Science" explanation, the event is characterized as "unprecedented."


tmiddles wrote: ... getting CO2 levels so high,

Nobody knows the atmosphere's average CO2 level. We have to assume the advertised levels are erroneous due to measurements being taken at an active volcano, i.e. the figures are probably way too high.

tmiddles wrote: ...so that's scary because we're not really sure what's going to happen.

Not just scary, we're supposed to panic, remember? It's supposed to be "catastrophic," remember? That's why nothing is ever unambiguously defined because then it wouldn't be scary ... it would be ridiculed.

tmiddles wrote: The most likely scenario seems to be that we will start to run into some real problems but nothing devastating.

Wow. I wasn't expecting you to be so specific and detailed. That really narrows it down.

tmiddles wrote:Also there are natural feedback mechanisms the Earth has.


From The MANUAL:

Forcing: noun
According to the Global Warming mythology, a forcing is a miracle performed by Climate in discharging Her duties as the central planner and administrator of all weather systems, ecosystems and local climates across the globe, of all interactions thereof and in caring for the wellbeing of all life on earth. This falls under Climate Science.

Feedback: noun
A feedback is a specific type of forcing employed by Climate that overcomes the physical limitations of the 1st and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics by creating additional usable energy. Feedbacks come in various subcategories, e.g. thermal, climate, hydrostatic, radiative, etc.. This falls under Settled Science.

tmiddles wrote: CO2 is absorbed into the ocean ...

CO2 is always released soon thereafter with the evaporation of the water. It's a cycle, not a "feedback". CO2 is not somehow accumulating in the ocean.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-07-2019 05:45
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3324)
.
Edited on 22-07-2019 06:45
22-07-2019 06:31
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
tmiddles wrote: I like your focus in this topic on it being economic activity in general.

It's like you can't read. He wasn't intending to bring economics into the discussion because he finds the topic to be a distraction from educating women.

tmiddles wrote: And how some people have optionally decided to make less money ....

It's like you can't read. He said "reduction in spending" not "reduction in earning."

Are you new at this?


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-07-2019 06:45
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3324)
keepit wrote:
That's all good.


I like your focus in this topic on it being economic activity in general. Have you seen the documentaries on building little houses? And how some people have optionally decided to make less money so they work fewer hours and have simpler lives? I think there's a lot of benefits
22-07-2019 06:57
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
IBdaMann wrote:
tmiddles wrote: I like your focus in this topic on it being economic activity in general.

It's like you can't read. He wasn't intending to bring economics into the discussion because he finds the topic to be a distraction from educating women.

tmiddles wrote: And how some people have optionally decided to make less money ....

It's like you can't read. He said "reduction in spending" not "reduction in earning."

Are you new at this?


This is interesting that my response above is listed before the post to which I responded.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-08-2019 21:12
keepit
★★★★☆
(1630)
Mostly Marxists are people who want to become capitalists.
19-08-2019 21:50
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13030)
tmiddles wrote:
keepit wrote:...AND a reduction in spending


Well I think we can change things to manage the climate succesfully.

It is not possible to manage climate. Terraforming isn't possible.
tmiddles wrote:
I'm very pro nuclear energy for that reason.

As long as the reactor is built safely and operated safely and the fuel processing plant is operated safely and the uranium mines are operated safely.
tmiddles wrote:
I believe it's safe and the public hysteria about it is misplaced.

There is no perfect energy source. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.
tmiddles wrote:
Nuclear power is entirely carbon and greenhouse neutral.

Not quite true. Graphite is used as a moderator in some reactors (it slows down high speed neutrons because a slower moving neutron has a better chance of causing fission).

But I assure you, no greenhouses were harmed in the building of a nuclear reactor.

tmiddles wrote:
It has no impact whatsoever on greenhouse gases.

There is no such thing as a 'greenhouse gas'. No gas or vapor is capable of warming the Earth.
tmiddles wrote:
We could shift the entire worlds power supply over to it and we should.

What about aircraft? What about automobiles? What about locomotives?
* Aircraft can't lift the weight of a reactor large enough to power it.
* Automobiles can't fit a reactor large enough to power it into the car.
* Locomotives can't fit a reactor large enough to pull a train into the locomotive.

tmiddles wrote:
We can also spend a lot of our wealth on offsetting things. Sequestering carbon from plants we grow ect.

It's called 'farming'. That is creating wealth, not spending it.
tmiddles wrote:
Making as much as we can out of wood : )

Like the computer you are typing on? Did you know that wood makes a lousy insulation for wires?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-08-2019 21:51
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13030)
keepit wrote:
That's all good. I just hope it isn't too late to prevent a lot of damagex and lives lost.
How do we know when it's too late?


What damage? What lives lost? Define 'climate change'.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-08-2019 22:04
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13030)
tmiddles wrote:
keepit wrote:
How do we know when it's too late?


My understanding is that we are doing something unprecedented getting CO2 levels so high,

How do you know it's something that we are doing? There is no data. How do you know the levels are so high? There is no data. Muana Loa data has been cooked. It's useless.
tmiddles wrote:
so that's scary because we're not really sure what's going to happen.

Nothing. Don't Panic.
tmiddles wrote:
However the Earth's been struck by meteorites something killed the dinosaurs and crazyshit has happened in the past.

The Perseid meteor shower recently peaked on Aug 12. Earth is still getting struck by meteorites. Head out to Arizona and look at Meteor Crater. See if the airplane wreck is still there.
tmiddles wrote:
So I can't think of a credible explanation for how this spells doomsday or the end of the Earth or anything so dramatic.Earth would be cratered like the Moon if the craters didn't weather away. There are still some big craters around though.
[quote]tmiddles wrote:
The most likely scenario seems to be that we will start to run into some real problems but nothing devastating.

Getting smacked by one of these babies is pretty devastating for anyone nearby!
tmiddles wrote:
Its been way higher than normal for a while now and nothing dramatic is happening.

What is 'normal'? Who is anyone to decide whether 220ppm, 400ppm, or 1000ppm is 'normal?
tmiddles wrote:
Also there are natural feedback mechanisms the Earth has.

None.
tmiddles wrote:
CO2 is absorbed into the ocean

The ocean also vents CO2.
tmiddles wrote:
and plants use it of course.

Then they die and are consumed, burned, or just plain rot (consumed by bacteria and fungus).
Did you know often involves the production of CO2?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-08-2019 22:06
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13030)
keepit wrote:
Mostly Marxists are people who want to become capitalists.


Now you are just denying the whole of Karl Marx's philosophy.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
19-08-2019 22:23
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7324)
keepit wrote: Mostly Marxists are people who want to become capitalists.

I would agree with your sentiments under different wording.

Marxists claim to hate capitalism but are secretly the greediest bastards on earth who would trade their rhetoric for capitalistic success in a heartbeat.


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
Page 3 of 3<123





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