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Eisenhower was right - beware us


Eisenhower was right - beware us15-10-2015 00:12
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
In his farewell speech to the nation before stepping down as President of the United States, Eisenhower warned the nation about the hazards of the "Military-Industrial" complex: the cozy, complex, convoluted and all controlling relations between the war department and contractors. Actually, what he wanted to warn the nation about was the "Military-Industrial-Congressional" complex, but his aids made him scratch congress from the list as they felt it would create to hostile of a political environment for the incoming administration.

Overall in the United States, we have been locked in a two party system for as long as I can remember. Of the two, the republicans are the only true party, as they are unified around the concept of individual wealth and greed. The democrats, on the other hand, are actually a conglomeration of innumerable special interests groups all united under a quasi-socialist banner. This means that while the republicans generally vote as a block based on their pocketbooks, the democrats are easily fractured and splinter along their individual special interest lines. This makes it easy for the republicans to control the political agenda, even when they don't hold the white house and are not a majority in either house: they can always peel of on or more of the democratic special interest groups to work with them on any particular issue.

So, when you have such a convoluted system as ours, with complexes and special interests and greed all chasing each other around the table, how can we get everyone together to work on an issue like M2C2 (man-made climate change) that effects all of us?

Sometimes you just gotta feel for the Pope:




The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards

1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator!
2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking!
3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers!
4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen!
15-10-2015 05:40
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4926)
trafn wrote: Overall in the United States, we have been locked in a two party system for as long as I can remember. Of the two, the republicans are the only true party, as they are unified around the concept of individual wealth and greed.

Semantic lesson time: "Conservative" does not equal "Republican."

Yes, conservatives are unified around the concept of individual liberty and earning wealth by adding value to society.

Republicans are unified around whatever concept will win in the next election while catering to the Christian faith.

Liberals are unified around the concept of overbearing government invasiveness and wealth redistribution away from those who earn it to those who do not.

Democrats are unified around whatever concept will win in the next election while catering to the Global Warming faith.

trafn wrote: The democrats, on the other hand, are actually a conglomeration of innumerable special interests groups all united under a quasi-socialist banner. This means that while the republicans generally vote as a block based on their pocketbooks, the democrats are easily fractured and splinter along their individual special interest lines.

This is a very accurate assessment. I might quibble over individual words but your core idea here is exactly the way it is. Democrats, in their pursuit of winning the next election, have the daunting task of trying to appeal to every aspect of this conglomeration, and there are always some who are not happy. Republicans are much smaller in numbers but understand that their only chance lies in the "united we stand" approach.

trafn wrote: This makes it easy for the republicans to control the political agenda,

The Republicans never control the agenda, even when they control both houses. Republicans are spineless cowards who cave at the first threat of being called names in the press. They couldn't control an agenda if it came on a leash.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-10-2015 05:47
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdaMann - granted, I hate the republicans for what they are (too personal wealth based for my liking) and I love the democrats for what they could be (but aren't). I'm not a libertarian (heroin should definitely not be available to everyone) and the Green Party is all too often in need of a reality check (no, not everything is green). You might find this odd, but one of my favorite presidential candidates is the one who'll never be: Ralph Nader. Now there's a guy who could fix the world and end up starting a nuclear war at the same time.
15-10-2015 17:27
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4926)
trafn wrote: You might find this odd, but one of my favorite presidential candidates is the one who'll never be: Ralph Nader. Now there's a guy who could fix the world and end up starting a nuclear war at the same time.

I liked Nader as well. I am so glad you mentioned him and the Green Party.

You previously asserted that the Republicans are the only real party in the US. Unfortunately, neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are real parties. Real political parties actually stand for something...and thus stand no chance in the US.

It was Ralph Nader that inspired my epiphany on the American political process. He clearly stated his platform. He delineated exactly where he stood on every issue in no uncertain terms. The Green Party published their overarching principles that told the American public precisely what to expect from the Green Party on any issue. Ralph Nader and the Greens dispensed with the ambiguity and covered themselves in clarity.

I realized they were doomed.

All real parties have clear, unambiguous platforms. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats commit to any specific position or cause so they aren't prevented from any position-shifting, back-pedaling, waffling and whatever is necessary to win the next election.

Let's look at how some real political parties hamstring themselves:

Communist Party USA Constitution:
http://www.cpusa.org/cpusa-constitution/

Green Party of the United States Platform:
http://www.gp.org/platform

Libertarian Party Platform:
http://www.lp.org/platform

Socialist Party USA Platform:
http://socialistparty-usa.net/platform.html



...whereas the Republicans are taking a survey to see what their platform should be:

GOP's Principles for American Renewal Survey

How can we get our country back on track? Tell the RNC which principles are most important to you


...and the Democrats' platform is conspicuously vague (devoid of any specifics):

There are several core beliefs that tie our party together: Democrats believe that we're greater together than we are on our own—that this country succeeds when everyone gets a fair shot, everyone does their fair share, and everyone plays by the same rules. Our party, led by President Obama, is focused on building an economy that lifts up all Americans, not just those at the top.


If you want to succeed as a party, you must cast of the limitations of a standard "real" party and free yourself to stand for nothing.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-10-2015 18:12
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdaMann - my apologies, I was using "real" as a metaphor for "unified" which by no way means the same thing as "worthwhile."

Nader is perhaps one of the greatest politicians in American history as, though he never got into a nationally elected post, he was responsible for more legislation that improved people's lives than any president or congressional representative or senator. This only goes to prove that no good deed goes unpunished.
15-10-2015 18:22
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4926)
trafn wrote:Nader is perhaps one of the greatest politicians in American history as, though he never got into a nationally elected post, he was responsible for more legislation that improved people's lives than any president or congressional representative or senator. This only goes to prove that no good deed goes unpunished.

Strategically, Nader should have run as a Republican. Conservatives liked Nader for the reasons you listed...until he ran against the Republican candidate. He could have won by a Reagan landslide...but for some reason he felt the need to form his own party and unnecessarily cater to fringe/radical groups.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-10-2015 18:29
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdaMann - perhaps Nader has too many morals and ethics to lower himself into the shit-fest of either main party. Personally, I think it only goes to show how much he did to help others without seeking fame or fortune for himself which is very uncandidate-like.
15-10-2015 18:42
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4926)
trafn wrote:
@IBdaMann - perhaps Nader has too many morals and ethics to lower himself into the shit-fest of either main party. Personally, I think it only goes to show how much he did to help others without seeking fame or fortune for himself which is very uncandidate-like.

Personally I think Nader had too much backbone to be able to cave on a dime as is required by the RNC. Otherwise he probably could have campaigned with every sentence ending in "...and I believe Jesus is my savior" as is apparently required for any Republican endoresement.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-10-2015 18:48
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdaMann - strangely, somehow I always sensed that the republicans viewed Nader as one of their own:

15-10-2015 19:43
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4926)
trafn wrote:

The gist of that cartoon is that Nader, competing as a Green Party candidate, would shred the Democrat base and pull votes away from the Democrat Presidential candidate (moreso than away from Republicans). Republican voters are going to circle the wagons around whoever the Republican candidate is but Nader became a god to leftist fringe groups who would rather circle their wagons around Nader than anyone else running as a Democrat.

However, if Nader had run as a Republican, he would have had both Republicans and Democrats circling the wagons around him. As history would have it, he chose otherwise and did not become President. In 2000, it is easy to draw the conclusion that Gore would have been President had Nader not run. So if you are a George W. Bush fan, you can thank Nader for the wonderful subsequent eight years.

You are a fan of George W. Bush, aren't you?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
15-10-2015 20:44
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdaMann - you're probably right, but to ascend to that level in either major party you must be completely bought and paid for, and Nader would never let himself stoop so low as to be sold.

My hero:

16-10-2015 19:19
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4926)
trafn wrote: @IBdaMann - you're probably right, but to ascend to that level in either major party you must be completely bought and paid for, and Nader would never let himself stoop so low as to be sold.

Nader isn't necessarily my "hero" but I would certainly join you in a toast to Nader's accomplishments. You show class holding him up as a hero as opposed to, say, Che Guevarra.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
16-10-2015 19:19
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(4926)
trafn wrote: @IBdaMann - you're probably right, but to ascend to that level in either major party you must be completely bought and paid for, and Nader would never let himself stoop so low as to be sold.

Nader isn't necessarily my "hero" but I would certainly join you in a toast to Nader's accomplishments. You show class holding him up as a hero as opposed to, say, Che Guevarra.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

When the alt-physics birds sing about "indivisible bodies," we've got pure BS. - VernerHornung

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
16-10-2015 20:07
trafnProfile picture★★★☆☆
(779)
@IBdaMann - did I forget to mention how nicely my Ralph and Che portraits look next to each other on my office wall in their matching frames?





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