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Radio Ecoshock - John Mashey lays out the conspiracy, and names names - Feb 2012


Radio Ecoshock - John Mashey lays out the conspiracy, and names names - Feb 201210-12-2017 11:13
moncktonProfile picture★★★☆☆
(436)
An old classic, very educational ...

"Dr. John Mashey investigates right-wing billionaires & corporations who pay alleged "charities", bloggers, & old weathermen to deny climate science. Canadian journalist Margaret Munro on government muzzling scientists, plus update by UCS Francesca Grifo on science freedom in U.S.

The fossil fuel industry have teamed up with very wealthy idealogues to make you doubt global warming is happening, or that we are forcing big changes in the climate.

For years, we guessed and partly knew that a small group of Right-wing think tanks, weathermen, and bloggers, and even a couple of low-grade climate scientists, were being paid off. We just couldn't see through the corporate veil of deception.

Now we know many of the same people hired by the tobacco industry to create doubt that smoking killed millions of people, found a new source of funding, and a new cause. They are attacking climate science, and the scientists. Hidden money fuels a campaign of lies, inuendo, fear mongering and fake science.

In recent news, we finally got hard information on just who is paying for these attacks, and how the money flows out to so-called independent "experts" and bloggers. A well-known scientist, Peter Gleick, penetrated the secret funding sources for climate attack central – an alleged charity called "The Heartland Institute".

We didn't really need the Heartland emails, leaked to desmogblog.com. Another source, Dr. John Mashey, patiently analysed public documents to track it all down. In an exclusive radio interview, John Mashey lays out the conspiracy, and names names..."


https://www.ecoshock.org/2012/02/free-climate-scientists.html

The interview: http://www.ecoshock.net/downloads/ES_120229_Show_LoFi.mp3
Edited on 10-12-2017 11:14
10-12-2017 21:18
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
Reliving this old conspiracy theory now? Shell is a publicly traded corporation. It is not the 'evil empire'. The same is true of all major oil companies. The same is true of Halliburton. The products that each of them put out are products that people want to buy.

The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it! and because there is no such thing as a 'greenhouse' gas. It uses no theory of science. It creates no theory of science. It's "data" is manufactured. It is not possible to collect the kind of "data" they spew.
Edited on 10-12-2017 21:19
11-12-2017 01:08
moncktonProfile picture★★★☆☆
(436)
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties
https://www.desmogblog.com/2017/01/13/mapping-epa-nominee-scott-pruitt-many-fossil-fuel-ties

11-12-2017 17:45
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming is what falls apart, not Trump or is intended goals.

The Church of Global Warming has no theory of science to turn to. It has no ability to even define the meaning of 'global warming' or 'climate change'. It depends on the concept of 'greenhouse' gases that have special magickal properties that no gas or vapor has.

It doesn't matter who is president or who is the head of the EPA.

monckton wrote:
Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties

None of these companies manufacture fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.


The Parrot Killer
14-12-2017 18:39
Wake
★★★★★
(3386)
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming is what falls apart, not Trump or is intended goals.

The Church of Global Warming has no theory of science to turn to. It has no ability to even define the meaning of 'global warming' or 'climate change'. It depends on the concept of 'greenhouse' gases that have special magickal properties that no gas or vapor has.

It doesn't matter who is president or who is the head of the EPA.

monckton wrote:
Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties

None of these companies manufacture fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.


At least you've grown to the point where you stopped that nonsense of "unable to define itself without circular terms". The idea of climate change is only a change in the climate. It has occurred continuously throughout history and will continue into the future.

The definition of fossil is "the remains of any living thing" and oil etc. ARE fossils and do burn.

As you note oil companies as well as every other major company is publicly owned. Because there are major shareholders doesn't mean that moronic Spot/monckton can pretend that they even WANT to control the business. Especially since the government itself has far more reason to increase the production and use of fossil fuels.

If I were spot I would be far more worried about the fact that the US NSA records every single communication from everywhere in the world on any line - internet, cell phone or landline.

Should Lord Monckton get tired of his name being dragged through the dirt by a crank, I'm sure that he has sufficient friends that could simply look up where those postings are coming from. And spot may trip crossing a bridge and fall over.
14-12-2017 19:10
moncktonProfile picture★★★☆☆
(436)
I better up my submission rate.

(You got anything more on eugenics, or are we done with that on the other thread?)

DONALD TRUMP AND THE COMING FALL OF AMERICAN EMPIRE

"EVEN AS PRESIDENT DONALD Trump faces ever-intensifying investigations into the alleged connections between his top aides and family members and powerful Russian figures, he serves as commander in chief over a U.S. military that is killing an astonishing and growing number of civilians. Under Trump, the U.S. is re-escalating its war in Afghanistan, expanding its operations in Iraq and Syria, conducting covert raids in Somalia and Yemen, and openly facilitating the Saudi's genocidal military destruction of Yemen.

Meanwhile, China has quietly and rapidly expanded its influence without deploying its military on foreign soil.

A new book by the famed historian Alfred McCoy predicts that China is set to surpass the influence of the U.S. globally, both militarily and economically, by the year 2030. At that point, McCoy asserts the United States empire as we know it will be no more...

https://theintercept.com/2017/07/22/donald-trump-and-the-coming-fall-of-american-empire/
14-12-2017 19:29
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
monckton wrote:I better up my submission rate.
The FCC just repealed its internet neutrality ruling. It appears the future will make finding AGW denier liar whiner posts easier to find AND your posts harder to find.
14-12-2017 19:45
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming is what falls apart, not Trump or is intended goals.

The Church of Global Warming has no theory of science to turn to. It has no ability to even define the meaning of 'global warming' or 'climate change'. It depends on the concept of 'greenhouse' gases that have special magickal properties that no gas or vapor has.

It doesn't matter who is president or who is the head of the EPA.

monckton wrote:
Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties

None of these companies manufacture fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.


At least you've grown to the point where you stopped that nonsense of "unable to define itself without circular terms".

Define 'climate change' or 'global warming' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
The idea of climate change is only a change in the climate.

Circular definition. It's still a buzzphrase. Try again.
Wake wrote:
It has occurred continuously throughout history and will continue into the future.

It has not occurred at all. How can something you can't define occur?
Wake wrote:
The definition of fossil is "the remains of any living thing"

WRONG. A fossil is a petrified remains of an identifiable living thing or the identifiable impression left by a living thing. A dead rat, for example, is not a fossil; not until it becomes petrified into rock. The rat is still identifiable as a rat, even as a fossil.
Wake wrote:
and oil etc. ARE fossils and do burn....deleted Mantra 1...1...2...

Oil is not a fossil. It is a hydrocarbon. There is no image of any living thing in oil. Being a liquid, there is no impression left in it either. Indeed, oil is a renewable resource.
Wake wrote:
Especially since the government itself has far more reason to increase the production and use of fossil fuels.

Fossils don't burn. The government is more interested in developing energy sources of all types. They're really in to the 'green' sources though. Government waste at it's finest.
Wake wrote:
If I were spot I would be far more worried about the fact that the US NSA records every single communication from everywhere in the world on any line - internet, cell phone or landline....deleted Mantra 1...1...4...1...

No, they don't. They would like to, but they can't. They don't have anywhere near enough storage space or capability to process what is stored. Certain types of communications lines or radio signal they can't even see at all.


The Parrot Killer
14-12-2017 19:48
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
monckton wrote:
I better up my submission rate.

(You got anything more on eugenics, or are we done with that on the other thread?)

DONALD TRUMP AND THE COMING FALL OF AMERICAN EMPIRE

"EVEN AS PRESIDENT DONALD Trump faces ever-intensifying investigations into the alleged connections between his top aides and family members and powerful Russian figures, he serves as commander in chief over a U.S. military that is killing an astonishing and growing number of civilians. Under Trump, the U.S. is re-escalating its war in Afghanistan, expanding its operations in Iraq and Syria, conducting covert raids in Somalia and Yemen, and openly facilitating the Saudi's genocidal military destruction of Yemen.

Meanwhile, China has quietly and rapidly expanded its influence without deploying its military on foreign soil.

A new book by the famed historian Alfred McCoy predicts that China is set to surpass the influence of the U.S. globally, both militarily and economically, by the year 2030. At that point, McCoy asserts the United States empire as we know it will be no more...

https://theintercept.com/2017/07/22/donald-trump-and-the-coming-fall-of-american-empire/


The United States is not an empire. The Chinese love to boast about their military capability, but all they really have to go for them is infantry. That too is under jeopardy, thanks to their program of limiting births.


The Parrot Killer
14-12-2017 20:08
moncktonProfile picture★★★☆☆
(436)
litesong wrote:
monckton wrote:I better up my submission rate.
The FCC just repealed its internet neutrality ruling. It appears the future will make finding AGW denier liar whiner posts easier to find AND your posts harder to find.


Well yeah they had to do something, things are getting pretty desparate.
Their bullshit balloon has popped and all that remains is hot air, drifting away, like a fart.
In the past it would be shutting down opposition radio stations and newspapers.
With every step the regime reveals its wizened claw.
Edited on 14-12-2017 20:14
14-12-2017 20:11
moncktonProfile picture★★★☆☆
(436)
Wake wrote:
Should Lord Monckton get tired of his name being dragged through the dirt by a crank, I'm sure that he has sufficient friends that could simply look up where those postings are coming from. And spot may trip crossing a bridge and fall over.


Are you saying that this Lord Monckton guy has people he doesn't like murdered?
That's a pretty strong accusation have you anything to back it up?
14-12-2017 20:31
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
monckton wrote:
litesong wrote:
monckton wrote:I better up my submission rate.
The FCC just repealed its internet neutrality ruling. It appears the future will make finding AGW denier liar whiner posts easier to find AND your posts harder to find.


Well yeah they had to do something, things are getting pretty desparate.
Their bullshit balloon has popped and all that remains is hot air, drifting away, like a fart.
In the past it would be shutting down opposition radio stations and newspapers.
With every step the regime reveals its wizened claw.


Repealing net neutrality removes government interference from the internet. Net neutrality WAS the equivalent of shutting down opposition radio stations. (the FCC never had authority over newspapers.)

The FCC no longer has 'radio neutrality' either, for the same reason. They can no longer shut down a radio station for what they broadcast politically. There is a challenge for TV stations going on now. Will the Supreme Court uphold Article 1 or the 1st amendment, or will they just let the FCC continue to fine TV stations for what it considers indecency?


The Parrot Killer
14-12-2017 20:34
moncktonProfile picture★★★☆☆
(436)
The Corporations are the US government, and now money can shut down anything.
14-12-2017 23:21
Wake
★★★★★
(3386)
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming is what falls apart, not Trump or is intended goals.

The Church of Global Warming has no theory of science to turn to. It has no ability to even define the meaning of 'global warming' or 'climate change'. It depends on the concept of 'greenhouse' gases that have special magickal properties that no gas or vapor has.

It doesn't matter who is president or who is the head of the EPA.

monckton wrote:
Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties

None of these companies manufacture fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.


At least you've grown to the point where you stopped that nonsense of "unable to define itself without circular terms".

Define 'climate change' or 'global warming' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
The idea of climate change is only a change in the climate.

Circular definition. It's still a buzzphrase. Try again.
Wake wrote:
It has occurred continuously throughout history and will continue into the future.

It has not occurred at all. How can something you can't define occur?
Wake wrote:
The definition of fossil is "the remains of any living thing"

WRONG. A fossil is a petrified remains of an identifiable living thing or the identifiable impression left by a living thing. A dead rat, for example, is not a fossil; not until it becomes petrified into rock. The rat is still identifiable as a rat, even as a fossil.
Wake wrote:
and oil etc. ARE fossils and do burn....deleted Mantra 1...1...2...

Oil is not a fossil. It is a hydrocarbon. There is no image of any living thing in oil. Being a liquid, there is no impression left in it either. Indeed, oil is a renewable resource.
Wake wrote:
Especially since the government itself has far more reason to increase the production and use of fossil fuels.

Fossils don't burn. The government is more interested in developing energy sources of all types. They're really in to the 'green' sources though. Government waste at it's finest.
Wake wrote:
If I were spot I would be far more worried about the fact that the US NSA records every single communication from everywhere in the world on any line - internet, cell phone or landline....deleted Mantra 1...1...4...1...

No, they don't. They would like to, but they can't. They don't have anywhere near enough storage space or capability to process what is stored. Certain types of communications lines or radio signal they can't even see at all.


nightmare - explain how going from 5 years with this average temperature to 5 years with a different global mean temperature is "circular definition". I want you to actually explain what you're trying to say instead of making your butt stupid "circular definition" crap.

Merriam Webster: "Definition of fossil
1 : preserved from a past geologic age fossil plants fossil water in an underground reservoir"

Are you saying that coal or oil is NOT the remains of plant life preserved from a former geologic age?

Exactly what in the hell do you know about storage space of electronic data? Not only have they started this during Bush and continued it through Obama but they continue it today. The ONLY limiting factor is that the US Supreme Court said that they could not inspect the data of any US Citizen without a court order to do so.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/07/nsa-prism-records-surveillance-questions

This is ONLY operation Prism. Telecommunications has been monitored since the cold war began. Originally they taped all communications and they would have people working around the clock changing out tapes.

Now virtually ALL of the Internet traffic goes through a limited number of routers and ALL of the large Internet businesses store ALL of the information that passes through their facilities.

When you don't know about things stop acting as if your did.
15-12-2017 00:13
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
monckton wrote:
The Corporations are the US government, and now money can shut down anything.


Corporations are not the U.S. government. The U.S. government is the U.S. government.

True, there is graft in the United States. That is largely the function of the lobbying groups on K street. It's a big problem. Not just corporations lobby.


The Parrot Killer
15-12-2017 00:32
Wake
★★★★★
(3386)
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
The Corporations are the US government, and now money can shut down anything.


Corporations are not the U.S. government. The U.S. government is the U.S. government.

True, there is graft in the United States. That is largely the function of the lobbying groups on K street. It's a big problem. Not just corporations lobby.


The people that are always trying to use "corporations" as some sort of fear word are people that don't even know what they are.

Anyone that owns a 401k or other retirement accounts is a member of a corporation or a number of corporations. All of these retirement account holders are usually under an umbrella organization and in many cases these retirement account owners own the majority of shares.

What does it matter if some person is a billionaire? Not one frigging thing. No one outside of real estate corporations even knew who Trump was before he put his hat in the ring.

People with this kind of money couldn't care less about controlling one damn thing other than to protect their own wealth from the government. Period. There are very rare exceptions and his name is George Soros who has purposely sold short on national currencies and then blew up their currency in order to make money.

The Koch bros could care less about anything other than keeping their taxes within reason and that is why they support Republicans whose theory is that the best government is the least government.

But SOB socialists like spot/monckton would love to pass out the idea that there is something wrong with being rich; unless he was. Than it would be fine.
15-12-2017 00:49
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming is what falls apart, not Trump or is intended goals.

The Church of Global Warming has no theory of science to turn to. It has no ability to even define the meaning of 'global warming' or 'climate change'. It depends on the concept of 'greenhouse' gases that have special magickal properties that no gas or vapor has.

It doesn't matter who is president or who is the head of the EPA.

monckton wrote:
Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties

None of these companies manufacture fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.


At least you've grown to the point where you stopped that nonsense of "unable to define itself without circular terms".

Define 'climate change' or 'global warming' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
The idea of climate change is only a change in the climate.

Circular definition. It's still a buzzphrase. Try again.
Wake wrote:
It has occurred continuously throughout history and will continue into the future.

It has not occurred at all. How can something you can't define occur?
Wake wrote:
The definition of fossil is "the remains of any living thing"

WRONG. A fossil is a petrified remains of an identifiable living thing or the identifiable impression left by a living thing. A dead rat, for example, is not a fossil; not until it becomes petrified into rock. The rat is still identifiable as a rat, even as a fossil.
Wake wrote:
and oil etc. ARE fossils and do burn....deleted Mantra 1...1...2...

Oil is not a fossil. It is a hydrocarbon. There is no image of any living thing in oil. Being a liquid, there is no impression left in it either. Indeed, oil is a renewable resource.
Wake wrote:
Especially since the government itself has far more reason to increase the production and use of fossil fuels.

Fossils don't burn. The government is more interested in developing energy sources of all types. They're really in to the 'green' sources though. Government waste at it's finest.
Wake wrote:
If I were spot I would be far more worried about the fact that the US NSA records every single communication from everywhere in the world on any line - internet, cell phone or landline....deleted Mantra 1...1...4...1...

No, they don't. They would like to, but they can't. They don't have anywhere near enough storage space or capability to process what is stored. Certain types of communications lines or radio signal they can't even see at all.


nightmare - explain how going from 5 years with this average temperature to 5 years with a different global mean temperature is "circular definition".

It isn't.
Wake wrote:
I want you to actually explain what you're trying to say instead of making your butt stupid "circular definition" crap.

Define 'global warming' or 'climate change' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
Merriam Webster: "Definition of fossil
1 : preserved from a past geologic age fossil plants fossil water in an underground reservoir"

Are you saying that coal or oil is NOT the remains of plant life preserved from a former geologic age?

You hard of hearing? That's what I've been saying for some time now.
Wake wrote:
Exactly what in the hell do you know about storage space of electronic data?

A fair amount.
Wake wrote:
Not only have they started this during Bush and continued it through Obama but they continue it today.

The have never stored all the phone calls or internet traffic.
Wake wrote:
The ONLY limiting factor is that the US Supreme Court said that they could not inspect the data of any US Citizen without a court order to do so.

No, there are several limiting factors, including the technology available.
Wake wrote:
...deleted Holy Link...
This is ONLY operation Prism. Telecommunications has been monitored since the cold war began. Originally they taped all communications and they would have people working around the clock changing out tapes.

That is not all the internet traffic or all the phone calls.
Wake wrote:
Now virtually ALL of the Internet traffic goes through a limited number of routers

It always has.
Wake wrote:
and ALL of the large Internet businesses store ALL of the information that passes through their facilities.
...deleted Mantra 2...1...

Not true. They don't have the storage space. Not even Google has that kind of storage space.

The stuff that gets stored is any large internet business is logs of activity, user accounting (which may include credit cards you have used with them), system performance, load balancing information, and summaries of recent activity by a user on their site. Amazon, for example, records your order history as part of your user records, but it does not store anything more than a few hours of where you were browsing in their catalog. Their system does not know of any credit card other than what you specifically told it.

The NSA stores phone connection information for international calls, the actual record of the phone call for many of them, some connection information for domestic calls, and the actual record of the call for a few of them that have been identified with known enemy activity. They do not bother to store much internet traffic, since the relevant stuff they need can be obtained by a court order authorizing access to the server operator involved. They do monitor some DoS activity though. They also tend to monitor some packets arriving from outside the United States.

All of this stuff is only temporary storage at NSA due to sheer bulk. It is analyzed by computer software before bringing any human operator into the picture at all. There just aren't enough people to look through all this stuff by hand. Only THAT stuff gets stored. One of NSA's biggest expenditures are the massive data destruction systems they use.

You can use the word "bomb" and freely talk about subversion against the United States without the NSA even being aware of it, much less caring about it.

Don't think I know what I'm talking about? How do you suppose various terrorist and other wackos organize some public bombing or some spectacular catastrophe without getting caught by the NSA? How do violent protestors organize a march without the NSA stopping them?

The problem with Big Brother is that there aren't enough watchers. There are also not enough watchers for the watchers.

We have an NSA antenna farm right nearby. It's capable of monitoring many different frequencies, but not all modes. An EME transmission, for example, can slip right by them. So can an MCP packet. The propagation path for those only last a few seconds. It's just not possible to scan all frequencies for all modes and decode them.

Cell phones? Go ahead and talk about bombs and overthrowing the government to your friends on the phone. The NSA probably won't even be aware of it unless the person you are talking to is offshore.


The Parrot Killer
15-12-2017 02:01
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
The Corporations are the US government, and now money can shut down anything.


Corporations are not the U.S. government. The U.S. government is the U.S. government.

True, there is graft in the United States. That is largely the function of the lobbying groups on K street. It's a big problem. Not just corporations lobby.


The people that are always trying to use "corporations" as some sort of fear word are people that don't even know what they are.

Largely true. Corporations are mysterious things to most people. Publicly trade corporations are even more mysterious. There investments in the market is done by some fund. They generally don't get into the actual trades themselves.
Wake wrote:
Anyone that owns a 401k or other retirement accounts is a member of a corporation or a number of corporations.
Quite true. Most of these are invested in some fund, the company that set up the IRA, and maybe a bit in the money markets.
Wake wrote:
All of these retirement account holders are usually under an umbrella organization and in many cases these retirement account owners own the majority of shares.
True.
Wake wrote:
What does it matter if some person is a billionaire? Not one frigging thing. No one outside of real estate corporations even knew who Trump was before he put his hat in the ring.

People were aware of Trump before his bid for President. He had a TV show, after all. Occasional news articles about some bankruptcy in one of his properties brought the spotlight to him as well.
Wake wrote:
People with this kind of money couldn't care less about controlling one damn thing other than to protect their own wealth from the government. Period.
Generally true.
Wake wrote:
There are very rare exceptions and his name is George Soros who has purposely sold short on national currencies and then blew up their currency in order to make money.

Soros didn't 'blow up' the currency or even break the Bank of England. The Bank of England broke itself. Soros saw the writing on the wall and just bet against it (and won). His action DID save the Pound from completely collapsing by forcing the Bank of England to withdraw from its stupidity.

Soros isn't evil. He made his money by calling other people on the rug for their inflated opinions of their worth. He's made a few bad bets too, but he generally is on the right side of it.

Wake wrote:
The Koch bros could care less about anything other than keeping their taxes within reason and that is why they support Republicans whose theory is that the best government is the least government.

Not just taxes, but regulations as well. It's hard to conduct business when the rules keep changing. What business really wants is consistency from government. The best way to do that is to have the government interfere as little as possible.
Wake wrote:
But SOB socialists like spot/monckton would love to pass out the idea that there is something wrong with being rich; unless he was. Than it would be fine.

That does sum up Marxism and its goals pretty well.


The Parrot Killer
15-12-2017 05:21
moncktonProfile picture★★★☆☆
(436)
You get to pick who they need to bribe.
That's the end of the publics involvement.
Republican party is owned, sold to the highest bidder like one of Hilary's Libyan dancing boys ...

'Where is the world?': Libya responds to outrage over slave auctions
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/23/africa/libya-reaction-slave-trade/index.html
15-12-2017 16:51
Wake
★★★★★
(3386)
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming is what falls apart, not Trump or is intended goals.

The Church of Global Warming has no theory of science to turn to. It has no ability to even define the meaning of 'global warming' or 'climate change'. It depends on the concept of 'greenhouse' gases that have special magickal properties that no gas or vapor has.

It doesn't matter who is president or who is the head of the EPA.

monckton wrote:
Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties

None of these companies manufacture fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.


At least you've grown to the point where you stopped that nonsense of "unable to define itself without circular terms".

Define 'climate change' or 'global warming' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
The idea of climate change is only a change in the climate.

Circular definition. It's still a buzzphrase. Try again.
Wake wrote:
It has occurred continuously throughout history and will continue into the future.

It has not occurred at all. How can something you can't define occur?
Wake wrote:
The definition of fossil is "the remains of any living thing"

WRONG. A fossil is a petrified remains of an identifiable living thing or the identifiable impression left by a living thing. A dead rat, for example, is not a fossil; not until it becomes petrified into rock. The rat is still identifiable as a rat, even as a fossil.
Wake wrote:
and oil etc. ARE fossils and do burn....deleted Mantra 1...1...2...

Oil is not a fossil. It is a hydrocarbon. There is no image of any living thing in oil. Being a liquid, there is no impression left in it either. Indeed, oil is a renewable resource.
Wake wrote:
Especially since the government itself has far more reason to increase the production and use of fossil fuels.

Fossils don't burn. The government is more interested in developing energy sources of all types. They're really in to the 'green' sources though. Government waste at it's finest.
Wake wrote:
If I were spot I would be far more worried about the fact that the US NSA records every single communication from everywhere in the world on any line - internet, cell phone or landline....deleted Mantra 1...1...4...1...

No, they don't. They would like to, but they can't. They don't have anywhere near enough storage space or capability to process what is stored. Certain types of communications lines or radio signal they can't even see at all.


nightmare - explain how going from 5 years with this average temperature to 5 years with a different global mean temperature is "circular definition".

It isn't.
Wake wrote:
I want you to actually explain what you're trying to say instead of making your butt stupid "circular definition" crap.

Define 'global warming' or 'climate change' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
Merriam Webster: "Definition of fossil
1 : preserved from a past geologic age fossil plants fossil water in an underground reservoir"

Are you saying that coal or oil is NOT the remains of plant life preserved from a former geologic age?

You hard of hearing? That's what I've been saying for some time now.
Wake wrote:
Exactly what in the hell do you know about storage space of electronic data?

A fair amount.
Wake wrote:
Not only have they started this during Bush and continued it through Obama but they continue it today.

The have never stored all the phone calls or internet traffic.
Wake wrote:
The ONLY limiting factor is that the US Supreme Court said that they could not inspect the data of any US Citizen without a court order to do so.

No, there are several limiting factors, including the technology available.
Wake wrote:
...deleted Holy Link...
This is ONLY operation Prism. Telecommunications has been monitored since the cold war began. Originally they taped all communications and they would have people working around the clock changing out tapes.

That is not all the internet traffic or all the phone calls.
Wake wrote:
Now virtually ALL of the Internet traffic goes through a limited number of routers

It always has.
Wake wrote:
and ALL of the large Internet businesses store ALL of the information that passes through their facilities.
...deleted Mantra 2...1...

Not true. They don't have the storage space. Not even Google has that kind of storage space.

The stuff that gets stored is any large internet business is logs of activity, user accounting (which may include credit cards you have used with them), system performance, load balancing information, and summaries of recent activity by a user on their site. Amazon, for example, records your order history as part of your user records, but it does not store anything more than a few hours of where you were browsing in their catalog. Their system does not know of any credit card other than what you specifically told it.

The NSA stores phone connection information for international calls, the actual record of the phone call for many of them, some connection information for domestic calls, and the actual record of the call for a few of them that have been identified with known enemy activity. They do not bother to store much internet traffic, since the relevant stuff they need can be obtained by a court order authorizing access to the server operator involved. They do monitor some DoS activity though. They also tend to monitor some packets arriving from outside the United States.

All of this stuff is only temporary storage at NSA due to sheer bulk. It is analyzed by computer software before bringing any human operator into the picture at all. There just aren't enough people to look through all this stuff by hand. Only THAT stuff gets stored. One of NSA's biggest expenditures are the massive data destruction systems they use.

You can use the word "bomb" and freely talk about subversion against the United States without the NSA even being aware of it, much less caring about it.

Don't think I know what I'm talking about? How do you suppose various terrorist and other wackos organize some public bombing or some spectacular catastrophe without getting caught by the NSA? How do violent protestors organize a march without the NSA stopping them?

The problem with Big Brother is that there aren't enough watchers. There are also not enough watchers for the watchers.

We have an NSA antenna farm right nearby. It's capable of monitoring many different frequencies, but not all modes. An EME transmission, for example, can slip right by them. So can an MCP packet. The propagation path for those only last a few seconds. It's just not possible to scan all frequencies for all modes and decode them.

Cell phones? Go ahead and talk about bombs and overthrowing the government to your friends on the phone. The NSA probably won't even be aware of it unless the person you are talking to is offshore.


Speaking to you is like speaking to an idiot child. First you say that fossils don't burn and then when I give you the definition of "fossil" and show that coal and oil are fossil fuels you give us this totally ignorant rant about a rat not being a fossil until it turns to stone. Guess what jackass - you can't recover DNA from a stone.

Again and again I ask you not to speak of things you know nothing about and you continue just like that idiot child that you must be.
15-12-2017 17:05
moncktonProfile picture★★★☆☆
(436)
Yeah I suppose you may as well just post the same thing, again and again, anytime, anywhere, regardless of context.
Why even pretend anymore?
15-12-2017 17:31
Wake
★★★★★
(3386)
monckton wrote:
Yeah I suppose you may as well just post the same thing, again and again, anytime, anywhere, regardless of context.
Why even pretend anymore?


While you post the same hogwash again and again. You're funny that way.
15-12-2017 18:47
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner & many time threatener wake-me-up" wiffed: While you post the same hogwash again and again.
It is NOT hogwash to say "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner & many time(plus 1) threatener wake-me-up" is an old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner & many time (plus 1) threatener.
15-12-2017 19:51
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming is what falls apart, not Trump or is intended goals.

The Church of Global Warming has no theory of science to turn to. It has no ability to even define the meaning of 'global warming' or 'climate change'. It depends on the concept of 'greenhouse' gases that have special magickal properties that no gas or vapor has.

It doesn't matter who is president or who is the head of the EPA.

monckton wrote:
Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties

None of these companies manufacture fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.


At least you've grown to the point where you stopped that nonsense of "unable to define itself without circular terms".

Define 'climate change' or 'global warming' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
The idea of climate change is only a change in the climate.

Circular definition. It's still a buzzphrase. Try again.
Wake wrote:
It has occurred continuously throughout history and will continue into the future.

It has not occurred at all. How can something you can't define occur?
Wake wrote:
The definition of fossil is "the remains of any living thing"

WRONG. A fossil is a petrified remains of an identifiable living thing or the identifiable impression left by a living thing. A dead rat, for example, is not a fossil; not until it becomes petrified into rock. The rat is still identifiable as a rat, even as a fossil.
Wake wrote:
and oil etc. ARE fossils and do burn....deleted Mantra 1...1...2...

Oil is not a fossil. It is a hydrocarbon. There is no image of any living thing in oil. Being a liquid, there is no impression left in it either. Indeed, oil is a renewable resource.
Wake wrote:
Especially since the government itself has far more reason to increase the production and use of fossil fuels.

Fossils don't burn. The government is more interested in developing energy sources of all types. They're really in to the 'green' sources though. Government waste at it's finest.
Wake wrote:
If I were spot I would be far more worried about the fact that the US NSA records every single communication from everywhere in the world on any line - internet, cell phone or landline....deleted Mantra 1...1...4...1...

No, they don't. They would like to, but they can't. They don't have anywhere near enough storage space or capability to process what is stored. Certain types of communications lines or radio signal they can't even see at all.


nightmare - explain how going from 5 years with this average temperature to 5 years with a different global mean temperature is "circular definition".

It isn't.
Wake wrote:
I want you to actually explain what you're trying to say instead of making your butt stupid "circular definition" crap.

Define 'global warming' or 'climate change' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
Merriam Webster: "Definition of fossil
1 : preserved from a past geologic age fossil plants fossil water in an underground reservoir"

Are you saying that coal or oil is NOT the remains of plant life preserved from a former geologic age?

You hard of hearing? That's what I've been saying for some time now.
Wake wrote:
Exactly what in the hell do you know about storage space of electronic data?

A fair amount.
Wake wrote:
Not only have they started this during Bush and continued it through Obama but they continue it today.

The have never stored all the phone calls or internet traffic.
Wake wrote:
The ONLY limiting factor is that the US Supreme Court said that they could not inspect the data of any US Citizen without a court order to do so.

No, there are several limiting factors, including the technology available.
Wake wrote:
...deleted Holy Link...
This is ONLY operation Prism. Telecommunications has been monitored since the cold war began. Originally they taped all communications and they would have people working around the clock changing out tapes.

That is not all the internet traffic or all the phone calls.
Wake wrote:
Now virtually ALL of the Internet traffic goes through a limited number of routers

It always has.
Wake wrote:
and ALL of the large Internet businesses store ALL of the information that passes through their facilities.
...deleted Mantra 2...1...

Not true. They don't have the storage space. Not even Google has that kind of storage space.

The stuff that gets stored is any large internet business is logs of activity, user accounting (which may include credit cards you have used with them), system performance, load balancing information, and summaries of recent activity by a user on their site. Amazon, for example, records your order history as part of your user records, but it does not store anything more than a few hours of where you were browsing in their catalog. Their system does not know of any credit card other than what you specifically told it.

The NSA stores phone connection information for international calls, the actual record of the phone call for many of them, some connection information for domestic calls, and the actual record of the call for a few of them that have been identified with known enemy activity. They do not bother to store much internet traffic, since the relevant stuff they need can be obtained by a court order authorizing access to the server operator involved. They do monitor some DoS activity though. They also tend to monitor some packets arriving from outside the United States.

All of this stuff is only temporary storage at NSA due to sheer bulk. It is analyzed by computer software before bringing any human operator into the picture at all. There just aren't enough people to look through all this stuff by hand. Only THAT stuff gets stored. One of NSA's biggest expenditures are the massive data destruction systems they use.

You can use the word "bomb" and freely talk about subversion against the United States without the NSA even being aware of it, much less caring about it.

Don't think I know what I'm talking about? How do you suppose various terrorist and other wackos organize some public bombing or some spectacular catastrophe without getting caught by the NSA? How do violent protestors organize a march without the NSA stopping them?

The problem with Big Brother is that there aren't enough watchers. There are also not enough watchers for the watchers.

We have an NSA antenna farm right nearby. It's capable of monitoring many different frequencies, but not all modes. An EME transmission, for example, can slip right by them. So can an MCP packet. The propagation path for those only last a few seconds. It's just not possible to scan all frequencies for all modes and decode them.

Cell phones? Go ahead and talk about bombs and overthrowing the government to your friends on the phone. The NSA probably won't even be aware of it unless the person you are talking to is offshore.


...deleted Mantra 2...1...First you say that fossils don't burn

They don't.
Wake wrote:
and then when I give you the definition of "fossil"

You did not give a definition for 'fossil'.
Wake wrote:
and show that coal and oil are fossil fuels

You didn't.
Wake wrote:
you give us this totally ignorant rant about a rat not being a fossil until it turns to stone.

So you figure a rat killed yesterday by a cat is a fossil, eh?
Wake wrote:
Guess what jackass - you can't recover DNA from a stone.
...deleted Mantra 2...2...1...

Who says you can recover DNA from a fossil?

It IS possible to recover DNA from mummified remains, but mummies aren't fossils.

Neither is coal, oil, or natural gas.


The Parrot Killer
15-12-2017 20:19
Wake
★★★★★
(3386)
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming is what falls apart, not Trump or is intended goals.

The Church of Global Warming has no theory of science to turn to. It has no ability to even define the meaning of 'global warming' or 'climate change'. It depends on the concept of 'greenhouse' gases that have special magickal properties that no gas or vapor has.

It doesn't matter who is president or who is the head of the EPA.

monckton wrote:
Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties

None of these companies manufacture fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.


At least you've grown to the point where you stopped that nonsense of "unable to define itself without circular terms".

Define 'climate change' or 'global warming' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
The idea of climate change is only a change in the climate.

Circular definition. It's still a buzzphrase. Try again.
Wake wrote:
It has occurred continuously throughout history and will continue into the future.

It has not occurred at all. How can something you can't define occur?
Wake wrote:
The definition of fossil is "the remains of any living thing"

WRONG. A fossil is a petrified remains of an identifiable living thing or the identifiable impression left by a living thing. A dead rat, for example, is not a fossil; not until it becomes petrified into rock. The rat is still identifiable as a rat, even as a fossil.
Wake wrote:
and oil etc. ARE fossils and do burn....deleted Mantra 1...1...2...

Oil is not a fossil. It is a hydrocarbon. There is no image of any living thing in oil. Being a liquid, there is no impression left in it either. Indeed, oil is a renewable resource.
Wake wrote:
Especially since the government itself has far more reason to increase the production and use of fossil fuels.

Fossils don't burn. The government is more interested in developing energy sources of all types. They're really in to the 'green' sources though. Government waste at it's finest.
Wake wrote:
If I were spot I would be far more worried about the fact that the US NSA records every single communication from everywhere in the world on any line - internet, cell phone or landline....deleted Mantra 1...1...4...1...

No, they don't. They would like to, but they can't. They don't have anywhere near enough storage space or capability to process what is stored. Certain types of communications lines or radio signal they can't even see at all.


nightmare - explain how going from 5 years with this average temperature to 5 years with a different global mean temperature is "circular definition".

It isn't.
Wake wrote:
I want you to actually explain what you're trying to say instead of making your butt stupid "circular definition" crap.

Define 'global warming' or 'climate change' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
Merriam Webster: "Definition of fossil
1 : preserved from a past geologic age fossil plants fossil water in an underground reservoir"

Are you saying that coal or oil is NOT the remains of plant life preserved from a former geologic age?

You hard of hearing? That's what I've been saying for some time now.
Wake wrote:
Exactly what in the hell do you know about storage space of electronic data?

A fair amount.
Wake wrote:
Not only have they started this during Bush and continued it through Obama but they continue it today.

The have never stored all the phone calls or internet traffic.
Wake wrote:
The ONLY limiting factor is that the US Supreme Court said that they could not inspect the data of any US Citizen without a court order to do so.

No, there are several limiting factors, including the technology available.
Wake wrote:
...deleted Holy Link...
This is ONLY operation Prism. Telecommunications has been monitored since the cold war began. Originally they taped all communications and they would have people working around the clock changing out tapes.

That is not all the internet traffic or all the phone calls.
Wake wrote:
Now virtually ALL of the Internet traffic goes through a limited number of routers

It always has.
Wake wrote:
and ALL of the large Internet businesses store ALL of the information that passes through their facilities.
...deleted Mantra 2...1...

Not true. They don't have the storage space. Not even Google has that kind of storage space.

The stuff that gets stored is any large internet business is logs of activity, user accounting (which may include credit cards you have used with them), system performance, load balancing information, and summaries of recent activity by a user on their site. Amazon, for example, records your order history as part of your user records, but it does not store anything more than a few hours of where you were browsing in their catalog. Their system does not know of any credit card other than what you specifically told it.

The NSA stores phone connection information for international calls, the actual record of the phone call for many of them, some connection information for domestic calls, and the actual record of the call for a few of them that have been identified with known enemy activity. They do not bother to store much internet traffic, since the relevant stuff they need can be obtained by a court order authorizing access to the server operator involved. They do monitor some DoS activity though. They also tend to monitor some packets arriving from outside the United States.

All of this stuff is only temporary storage at NSA due to sheer bulk. It is analyzed by computer software before bringing any human operator into the picture at all. There just aren't enough people to look through all this stuff by hand. Only THAT stuff gets stored. One of NSA's biggest expenditures are the massive data destruction systems they use.

You can use the word "bomb" and freely talk about subversion against the United States without the NSA even being aware of it, much less caring about it.

Don't think I know what I'm talking about? How do you suppose various terrorist and other wackos organize some public bombing or some spectacular catastrophe without getting caught by the NSA? How do violent protestors organize a march without the NSA stopping them?

The problem with Big Brother is that there aren't enough watchers. There are also not enough watchers for the watchers.

We have an NSA antenna farm right nearby. It's capable of monitoring many different frequencies, but not all modes. An EME transmission, for example, can slip right by them. So can an MCP packet. The propagation path for those only last a few seconds. It's just not possible to scan all frequencies for all modes and decode them.

Cell phones? Go ahead and talk about bombs and overthrowing the government to your friends on the phone. The NSA probably won't even be aware of it unless the person you are talking to is offshore.


...deleted Mantra 2...1...First you say that fossils don't burn

They don't.
Wake wrote:
and then when I give you the definition of "fossil"

You did not give a definition for 'fossil'.
Wake wrote:
and show that coal and oil are fossil fuels

You didn't.
Wake wrote:
you give us this totally ignorant rant about a rat not being a fossil until it turns to stone.

So you figure a rat killed yesterday by a cat is a fossil, eh?
Wake wrote:
Guess what jackass - you can't recover DNA from a stone.
...deleted Mantra 2...2...1...

Who says you can recover DNA from a fossil?

It IS possible to recover DNA from mummified remains, but mummies aren't fossils.

Neither is coal, oil, or natural gas.


You simply cannot stop yourself from spouting ignorance on a world wide scale: "Fossil Fuel: a natural fuel such as coal or gas, formed in the geological past from the remains of living organisms."

A Fossil: any remains, impression, or trace of a living thing of a former geologic age, as a skeleton, footprint, etc.

Coal and oil are the remains of past plant life from an earlier geological period.

Now be a good little boy and go play with your legos.
15-12-2017 21:40
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming is what falls apart, not Trump or is intended goals.

The Church of Global Warming has no theory of science to turn to. It has no ability to even define the meaning of 'global warming' or 'climate change'. It depends on the concept of 'greenhouse' gases that have special magickal properties that no gas or vapor has.

It doesn't matter who is president or who is the head of the EPA.

monckton wrote:
Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties

None of these companies manufacture fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.


At least you've grown to the point where you stopped that nonsense of "unable to define itself without circular terms".

Define 'climate change' or 'global warming' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
The idea of climate change is only a change in the climate.

Circular definition. It's still a buzzphrase. Try again.
Wake wrote:
It has occurred continuously throughout history and will continue into the future.

It has not occurred at all. How can something you can't define occur?
Wake wrote:
The definition of fossil is "the remains of any living thing"

WRONG. A fossil is a petrified remains of an identifiable living thing or the identifiable impression left by a living thing. A dead rat, for example, is not a fossil; not until it becomes petrified into rock. The rat is still identifiable as a rat, even as a fossil.
Wake wrote:
and oil etc. ARE fossils and do burn....deleted Mantra 1...1...2...

Oil is not a fossil. It is a hydrocarbon. There is no image of any living thing in oil. Being a liquid, there is no impression left in it either. Indeed, oil is a renewable resource.
Wake wrote:
Especially since the government itself has far more reason to increase the production and use of fossil fuels.

Fossils don't burn. The government is more interested in developing energy sources of all types. They're really in to the 'green' sources though. Government waste at it's finest.
Wake wrote:
If I were spot I would be far more worried about the fact that the US NSA records every single communication from everywhere in the world on any line - internet, cell phone or landline....deleted Mantra 1...1...4...1...

No, they don't. They would like to, but they can't. They don't have anywhere near enough storage space or capability to process what is stored. Certain types of communications lines or radio signal they can't even see at all.


nightmare - explain how going from 5 years with this average temperature to 5 years with a different global mean temperature is "circular definition".

It isn't.
Wake wrote:
I want you to actually explain what you're trying to say instead of making your butt stupid "circular definition" crap.

Define 'global warming' or 'climate change' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
Merriam Webster: "Definition of fossil
1 : preserved from a past geologic age fossil plants fossil water in an underground reservoir"

Are you saying that coal or oil is NOT the remains of plant life preserved from a former geologic age?

You hard of hearing? That's what I've been saying for some time now.
Wake wrote:
Exactly what in the hell do you know about storage space of electronic data?

A fair amount.
Wake wrote:
Not only have they started this during Bush and continued it through Obama but they continue it today.

The have never stored all the phone calls or internet traffic.
Wake wrote:
The ONLY limiting factor is that the US Supreme Court said that they could not inspect the data of any US Citizen without a court order to do so.

No, there are several limiting factors, including the technology available.
Wake wrote:
...deleted Holy Link...
This is ONLY operation Prism. Telecommunications has been monitored since the cold war began. Originally they taped all communications and they would have people working around the clock changing out tapes.

That is not all the internet traffic or all the phone calls.
Wake wrote:
Now virtually ALL of the Internet traffic goes through a limited number of routers

It always has.
Wake wrote:
and ALL of the large Internet businesses store ALL of the information that passes through their facilities.
...deleted Mantra 2...1...

Not true. They don't have the storage space. Not even Google has that kind of storage space.

The stuff that gets stored is any large internet business is logs of activity, user accounting (which may include credit cards you have used with them), system performance, load balancing information, and summaries of recent activity by a user on their site. Amazon, for example, records your order history as part of your user records, but it does not store anything more than a few hours of where you were browsing in their catalog. Their system does not know of any credit card other than what you specifically told it.

The NSA stores phone connection information for international calls, the actual record of the phone call for many of them, some connection information for domestic calls, and the actual record of the call for a few of them that have been identified with known enemy activity. They do not bother to store much internet traffic, since the relevant stuff they need can be obtained by a court order authorizing access to the server operator involved. They do monitor some DoS activity though. They also tend to monitor some packets arriving from outside the United States.

All of this stuff is only temporary storage at NSA due to sheer bulk. It is analyzed by computer software before bringing any human operator into the picture at all. There just aren't enough people to look through all this stuff by hand. Only THAT stuff gets stored. One of NSA's biggest expenditures are the massive data destruction systems they use.

You can use the word "bomb" and freely talk about subversion against the United States without the NSA even being aware of it, much less caring about it.

Don't think I know what I'm talking about? How do you suppose various terrorist and other wackos organize some public bombing or some spectacular catastrophe without getting caught by the NSA? How do violent protestors organize a march without the NSA stopping them?

The problem with Big Brother is that there aren't enough watchers. There are also not enough watchers for the watchers.

We have an NSA antenna farm right nearby. It's capable of monitoring many different frequencies, but not all modes. An EME transmission, for example, can slip right by them. So can an MCP packet. The propagation path for those only last a few seconds. It's just not possible to scan all frequencies for all modes and decode them.

Cell phones? Go ahead and talk about bombs and overthrowing the government to your friends on the phone. The NSA probably won't even be aware of it unless the person you are talking to is offshore.


...deleted Mantra 2...1...First you say that fossils don't burn

They don't.
Wake wrote:
and then when I give you the definition of "fossil"

You did not give a definition for 'fossil'.
Wake wrote:
and show that coal and oil are fossil fuels

You didn't.
Wake wrote:
you give us this totally ignorant rant about a rat not being a fossil until it turns to stone.

So you figure a rat killed yesterday by a cat is a fossil, eh?
Wake wrote:
Guess what jackass - you can't recover DNA from a stone.
...deleted Mantra 2...2...1...

Who says you can recover DNA from a fossil?

It IS possible to recover DNA from mummified remains, but mummies aren't fossils.

Neither is coal, oil, or natural gas.

...deleted Mantra 2...4...Holy Quote...Holy Quote...
Coal and oil are the remains of past plant life from an earlier geological period.
...deleted Mantra 1...16...


So the Fischer-Tropsche process is an earlier geological period, eh? It was developed during WW2, dumbass.

Coal is primarily carbon. A chemical element. It is not a fossil.

Oil can be and is routinely synthesized from just carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide, hydrogen, heat, and pressure. There is no image or trace of any animal or plant found in natural oil.

I guess to YOU, water is a fossil.


The Parrot Killer
15-12-2017 23:12
Wake
★★★★★
(3386)
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:The Church of Global Warming falls apart not because of 'doubt being spread by minions of the evil empire', but because you can't even define it!...


I thought it fell apart in the evil empire because Trump got elected and the Republicans own him now.
It's flourishing in the shire.

Inversion fallacy. The Church of Global Warming is what falls apart, not Trump or is intended goals.

The Church of Global Warming has no theory of science to turn to. It has no ability to even define the meaning of 'global warming' or 'climate change'. It depends on the concept of 'greenhouse' gases that have special magickal properties that no gas or vapor has.

It doesn't matter who is president or who is the head of the EPA.

monckton wrote:
Mapping EPA Nominee Scott Pruitt's Many Fossil Fuel Ties

None of these companies manufacture fossil fuels. Fossils don't burn.


At least you've grown to the point where you stopped that nonsense of "unable to define itself without circular terms".

Define 'climate change' or 'global warming' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
The idea of climate change is only a change in the climate.

Circular definition. It's still a buzzphrase. Try again.
Wake wrote:
It has occurred continuously throughout history and will continue into the future.

It has not occurred at all. How can something you can't define occur?
Wake wrote:
The definition of fossil is "the remains of any living thing"

WRONG. A fossil is a petrified remains of an identifiable living thing or the identifiable impression left by a living thing. A dead rat, for example, is not a fossil; not until it becomes petrified into rock. The rat is still identifiable as a rat, even as a fossil.
Wake wrote:
and oil etc. ARE fossils and do burn....deleted Mantra 1...1...2...

Oil is not a fossil. It is a hydrocarbon. There is no image of any living thing in oil. Being a liquid, there is no impression left in it either. Indeed, oil is a renewable resource.
Wake wrote:
Especially since the government itself has far more reason to increase the production and use of fossil fuels.

Fossils don't burn. The government is more interested in developing energy sources of all types. They're really in to the 'green' sources though. Government waste at it's finest.
Wake wrote:
If I were spot I would be far more worried about the fact that the US NSA records every single communication from everywhere in the world on any line - internet, cell phone or landline....deleted Mantra 1...1...4...1...

No, they don't. They would like to, but they can't. They don't have anywhere near enough storage space or capability to process what is stored. Certain types of communications lines or radio signal they can't even see at all.


nightmare - explain how going from 5 years with this average temperature to 5 years with a different global mean temperature is "circular definition".

It isn't.
Wake wrote:
I want you to actually explain what you're trying to say instead of making your butt stupid "circular definition" crap.

Define 'global warming' or 'climate change' without using circular definitions.
Wake wrote:
Merriam Webster: "Definition of fossil
1 : preserved from a past geologic age fossil plants fossil water in an underground reservoir"

Are you saying that coal or oil is NOT the remains of plant life preserved from a former geologic age?

You hard of hearing? That's what I've been saying for some time now.
Wake wrote:
Exactly what in the hell do you know about storage space of electronic data?

A fair amount.
Wake wrote:
Not only have they started this during Bush and continued it through Obama but they continue it today.

The have never stored all the phone calls or internet traffic.
Wake wrote:
The ONLY limiting factor is that the US Supreme Court said that they could not inspect the data of any US Citizen without a court order to do so.

No, there are several limiting factors, including the technology available.
Wake wrote:
...deleted Holy Link...
This is ONLY operation Prism. Telecommunications has been monitored since the cold war began. Originally they taped all communications and they would have people working around the clock changing out tapes.

That is not all the internet traffic or all the phone calls.
Wake wrote:
Now virtually ALL of the Internet traffic goes through a limited number of routers

It always has.
Wake wrote:
and ALL of the large Internet businesses store ALL of the information that passes through their facilities.
...deleted Mantra 2...1...

Not true. They don't have the storage space. Not even Google has that kind of storage space.

The stuff that gets stored is any large internet business is logs of activity, user accounting (which may include credit cards you have used with them), system performance, load balancing information, and summaries of recent activity by a user on their site. Amazon, for example, records your order history as part of your user records, but it does not store anything more than a few hours of where you were browsing in their catalog. Their system does not know of any credit card other than what you specifically told it.

The NSA stores phone connection information for international calls, the actual record of the phone call for many of them, some connection information for domestic calls, and the actual record of the call for a few of them that have been identified with known enemy activity. They do not bother to store much internet traffic, since the relevant stuff they need can be obtained by a court order authorizing access to the server operator involved. They do monitor some DoS activity though. They also tend to monitor some packets arriving from outside the United States.

All of this stuff is only temporary storage at NSA due to sheer bulk. It is analyzed by computer software before bringing any human operator into the picture at all. There just aren't enough people to look through all this stuff by hand. Only THAT stuff gets stored. One of NSA's biggest expenditures are the massive data destruction systems they use.

You can use the word "bomb" and freely talk about subversion against the United States without the NSA even being aware of it, much less caring about it.

Don't think I know what I'm talking about? How do you suppose various terrorist and other wackos organize some public bombing or some spectacular catastrophe without getting caught by the NSA? How do violent protestors organize a march without the NSA stopping them?

The problem with Big Brother is that there aren't enough watchers. There are also not enough watchers for the watchers.

We have an NSA antenna farm right nearby. It's capable of monitoring many different frequencies, but not all modes. An EME transmission, for example, can slip right by them. So can an MCP packet. The propagation path for those only last a few seconds. It's just not possible to scan all frequencies for all modes and decode them.

Cell phones? Go ahead and talk about bombs and overthrowing the government to your friends on the phone. The NSA probably won't even be aware of it unless the person you are talking to is offshore.


...deleted Mantra 2...1...First you say that fossils don't burn

They don't.
Wake wrote:
and then when I give you the definition of "fossil"

You did not give a definition for 'fossil'.
Wake wrote:
and show that coal and oil are fossil fuels

You didn't.
Wake wrote:
you give us this totally ignorant rant about a rat not being a fossil until it turns to stone.

So you figure a rat killed yesterday by a cat is a fossil, eh?
Wake wrote:
Guess what jackass - you can't recover DNA from a stone.
...deleted Mantra 2...2...1...

Who says you can recover DNA from a fossil?

It IS possible to recover DNA from mummified remains, but mummies aren't fossils.

Neither is coal, oil, or natural gas.

...deleted Mantra 2...4...Holy Quote...Holy Quote...
Coal and oil are the remains of past plant life from an earlier geological period.
...deleted Mantra 1...16...


So the Fischer-Tropsche process is an earlier geological period, eh? It was developed during WW2, dumbass.

Coal is primarily carbon. A chemical element. It is not a fossil.

Oil can be and is routinely synthesized from just carbon dioxide or carbon monoxide, hydrogen, heat, and pressure. There is no image or trace of any animal or plant found in natural oil.

I guess to YOU, water is a fossil.


Firstly you have been the first to be complaining about a spelling error and then you misspell Hans Tropsch name.

Secondly only an ass would think that the Fischer–Tropsch process is the same as the processes that developed coal and petroleum. Apparently you think converting coal energy into liquid petroleum is some sort of miracle.

Tell me - do you think that coal and petroleum suddenly appeared from the Fischer–Tropsch process?

Now be a good little boy and go play with your legos.
15-12-2017 23:44
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5343)
I see you want to leave the discussion about fossils and go off in another direction. You seem to have real trouble staying on topic. We will return to discussing carbon based fuels.
Wake wrote:
Firstly you have been the first to be complaining about a spelling error

I generally don't complain about spelling errors, liar.
Wake wrote:
and then you misspell Hans Tropsch name.

Good catch.
Wake wrote:
Secondly only an ass would think that the Fischer–Tropsch process is the same as the processes that developed coal and petroleum.

Why? It synthesizes petroleum directly from carbon dioxide (or carbon monoxide), hydrogen.
Wake wrote:
Apparently you think converting coal energy into liquid petroleum is some sort of miracle.

That is not the Fischer-Tropsch process. Go look at it again.
Wake wrote:
Tell me - do you think that coal and petroleum suddenly appeared from the Fischer–Tropsch process?
...deleted Mantra 1...16...


Petroleum certainly does. So does natural gas. The only feedstock is an oxide of carbon and hydrogen.

Coal is primarily carbon. It is not produced by the Fischer-Tropsch process. Carbon is a chemical element. It does not need to be synthesized.


The Parrot Killer
16-12-2017 02:28
Wake
★★★★★
(3386)
Into the Night wrote:
I see you want to leave the discussion about fossils and go off in another direction. You seem to have real trouble staying on topic. We will return to discussing carbon based fuels.
Wake wrote:
Firstly you have been the first to be complaining about a spelling error

I generally don't complain about spelling errors, liar.
Wake wrote:
and then you misspell Hans Tropsch name.

Good catch.
Wake wrote:
Secondly only an ass would think that the Fischer–Tropsch process is the same as the processes that developed coal and petroleum.

Why? It synthesizes petroleum directly from carbon dioxide (or carbon monoxide), hydrogen.
Wake wrote:
Apparently you think converting coal energy into liquid petroleum is some sort of miracle.

That is not the Fischer-Tropsch process. Go look at it again.
Wake wrote:
Tell me - do you think that coal and petroleum suddenly appeared from the Fischer–Tropsch process?
...deleted Mantra 1...16...


Petroleum certainly does. So does natural gas. The only feedstock is an oxide of carbon and hydrogen.

Coal is primarily carbon. It is not produced by the Fischer-Tropsch process. Carbon is a chemical element. It does not need to be synthesized.


Again you are not even bright enough to understand English. Are you sure that English is your first language or are you just slow?

Now be a good little boy and go play with your legos.




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