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20-02-2018 17:41
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1046)
He (Obama) took it from 65% of GDP to a high of 106% of GDP.


Whooa shit! I stand corrected!

Price controls never work

Would you call minimum wage a price control?
Edited on 20-02-2018 17:43
20-02-2018 18:18
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebarf steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rootin'(& rottin') racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiners & many time(plus 1) threatener gazzzed & guzzzlin" gushed: Would you call minimum wage a price control?
Rich people, opposing min. wage escalations, are their attempt to increase rich/poor wage ratio from 3000:1 to 4000:1(5000:1?) .
20-02-2018 19:03
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1196)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
In the US, the poor would like to be middle class. The middle class would like to be rich. And the rich would like to be Warren Buffett. So who should decide what your income is? The federal f ing government?? That is just fine if you think the gov should be involved in class equalization. I have no problem with that. There are many failing countries around the world that operate that way, with an all powerful central gov. Go live in one of them. The US is not one of those places. The US was the "great experiment" that showed the world what personal freedom could produce. The libs would like to destroy that freedom and put the power back to the gov. It pisses me off. The Marxist Democrats will vote themselves total power any day of the week, all the while hiding behind the lie that they are "in it for the little guy". City after city has been under Democrat rule for decades, and they are all in decline. They have helped the little guy just enough to teach him to sit on his ass long enough to receive his handout. You people across the pond....if you haven't lived here then you don't get it. If you do live here, then you should. There is no excuse for the poverty we have, and don't spout off about education. I should be proof that any man willing to get off his fat ass can be productive and profitable. I do not envy people with more money. I work smarter and harder to earn some more. If I lost everything today I'd be first in line for any job tomorrow. I would do anything to support my family. I would not look to my president for help. I would not cry about it not being fair. I am entitled to nothing, except for the fruits of my labor!
James, Tim, Litebeer...do some research on what percentage entitlements are on the US Budget.
I'm all about helping those who can't help themselves. I give regularly to those charities. But in this land where there is more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, the entitlements are staggering and disgusting. It should be up to you, and only you, what income class you're in. I would say sorry about the rant, but I'm not. Quit ****ing with my USA!

ITN, it's all foggy yucky and cold here. I'm grumpy. How do you deal with it??


I am not disparaging the US.

I see it with an outsiders view point.

I only coment here on the global warming thing mostly.

The point of my not liking open borders for labour is that it causes the poor to need to shift about chasing the capital. Money should chase the workers.

Detroit has lost half it's population since 1980 or so. That's OK in the USA but if Portugal lost the same it is a social problem.

Making it OK for labour to move from Nigeria to Europe means that the industry they chase has no incentive to go to Nigeria. If the workers can't come to the factory the factory will have to go to them. That would result in the economic and social development of Africa.


Tim, I may not agree but I always welcome an outsiders point of view.

Detroit is a great example. Used to be motor city, making and assembling a huge percentage of American cars and trucks. For years the union was a good thing, looking out for worker safety and decent wages. But like any other organization, they needed to justify their existence....and budget. Funded by union dues and the Democrat party, they decided that a good working man with no education needs to make $80,000 a year, 16 ways with instruction manuals on how to file a grievance against the company, full pension plan, full health care, 8 weeks paid vacation, 7 sick days, and 5 personal days. The unions drove a wedge between employer and employee. The auto makers finally came to a point where they could not stay in business if they didn't find cheaper labor somewhere else.

So what is business supposed to do? Fold up or send some operations to Mexico.(or anywhere) That's the 2 choices. At least if they find a way to stay open, Mexico gets some economic growth and the Unions get what they deserve. Nothing.

And we haven't even talked about corporate taxes.
With the one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, business has fled this country like the plague. Thank you Democrat party, (as they stand up and scream that all the jobs have gone overseas.)
Trump is doing some great things making the US business friendly again. Yes Litebeer, I know. There will be some rich people. Deal with it. There with also be millions more with good jobs to feed their families. These workers will also pay billions in new tax revenue that will help pay for that great health care of yours.

Tim, your line about "money needs to chase workers". Sure, I agree. In a perfect world where everyone that wants a great job has one and there is no poverty anywhere. I don't believe this has ever happened in the history of the world. Has it?


No it has not. Nor will it ever be perfectly equal. I am not worried about the world being equal. I want a world where the poor get richer quickest.

What ever system does that looks good for me. the rich can sort themselves out.

My choice of least bad economic system is capitalism. I would like to see some changes in the detail of it but they are quite minor.

The removal of geography limits to the migration of labour however is not in the interests of creating a decent society. Sure we need some mobility of labour but like all things in moderation. For high end highly technical jobs let them wander the world to find the place they make most impact. But for assembly line workers the prospect of either you competing with 3rd world nationals for who costs less or the prospect for those 3rd world nationals of leaving your homeland and traveling, often extremely dangerous journeys, for work is often worse.

Let the money chase the labour. Detroit probably was doomed by poor short sighted unions and very poor management. I rember a Toyota being put into the car park of a GM (?) plant as the wrokers were leaving. The management expected them to attack it. They were looking over it carefully and had to be encoraged to attack it for the TV cameras. The workers new a good car when they saw one. The knew they were producing shit. They could not get the management to listen to them at all.
20-02-2018 19:55
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5738)
GasGuzzler wrote:
He (Obama) took it from 65% of GDP to a high of 106% of GDP.


Whooa shit! I stand corrected!

Price controls never work

Would you call minimum wage a price control?


Yes. The result is predictable. Available jobs decrease as companies lay off some and make others work harder to keep their payroll somewhere near the same, or close businesses in areas affected by the increase entirely and maintain their business where the price of labor is not controlled. Instead of the same number of workers making more money, some lose their jobs and make no money at all, while those that remain work harder for the increased wage the do receive. This is the case if the minimum wage law dictates a higher price than the workers are worth on the open market.

The price of a worker is the same as the price of anything else. It is normally governed by supply and demand.

There are a lot of unskilled workers and not enough jobs for them. There is a glut in unskilled workers in the market. The price (worker pay) is low. If the price discovery for an unskilled worker happens to be greater than the present minimum wage law, the minimum wage law is effectively pointless.

There are more jobs in programming right now than workers to fill them right now. There is a scarcity of workers that know these skills. The price (worker pay) is higher.

In most cities across the United States currently, minimum wage laws dictate a higher price than the unskilled worker is worth on the open market. This means cities are losing businesses that hire these people. Those businesses are either closing (and their owners just retiring), closing (to move to cheaper labor outside the city), or staying put and laying off part of their work force to pay for those that remain.

Instead of making minimum wage, the laid off worker now makes ZERO. Jobs are fewer to come by, too.

Such is the result of the minimum wage, when set to a price higher than what the open market would pay an unskilled worker.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 20-02-2018 20:08
20-02-2018 20:38
Wake
★★★★★
(3396)
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
He (Obama) took it from 65% of GDP to a high of 106% of GDP.


Whooa shit! I stand corrected!

Price controls never work

Would you call minimum wage a price control?


Yes. The result is predictable. Available jobs decrease as companies lay off some and make others work harder to keep their payroll somewhere near the same, or close businesses in areas affected by the increase entirely and maintain their business where the price of labor is not controlled. Instead of the same number of workers making more money, some lose their jobs and make no money at all, while those that remain work harder for the increased wage the do receive. This is the case if the minimum wage law dictates a higher price than the workers are worth on the open market.

The price of a worker is the same as the price of anything else. It is normally governed by supply and demand.

There are a lot of unskilled workers and not enough jobs for them. There is a glut in unskilled workers in the market. The price (worker pay) is low. If the price discovery for an unskilled worker happens to be greater than the present minimum wage law, the minimum wage law is effectively pointless.

There are more jobs in programming right now than workers to fill them right now. There is a scarcity of workers that know these skills. The price (worker pay) is higher.

In most cities across the United States currently, minimum wage laws dictate a higher price than the unskilled worker is worth on the open market. This means cities are losing businesses that hire these people. Those businesses are either closing (and their owners just retiring), closing (to move to cheaper labor outside the city), or staying put and laying off part of their work force to pay for those that remain.

Instead of making minimum wage, the laid off worker now makes ZERO. Jobs are fewer to come by, too.

Such is the result of the minimum wage, when set to a price higher than what the open market would pay an unskilled worker.


Even more dramatic is the massive scale of over-taxation in California. It has come to the point where industry and the people with money are fleeing the state.

With this of course means a dropping tax base and more tax increases to make up for the short fall.

While in the major cities housing inventories are low and hence completely overpriced (one bedroom 600 sq ft. apartment in San Francisco starting at $650,000) there are fewer and fewer jobs that CAN pay minimum wages. So everyone is living on welfare from the acts of their own making - demanding more money for the work they do.

In a smart society you have the jobs chasing the workers and not the reverse. You set your tax levels low enough to promote business startups and growth.

Instead what we're seeing is the proclaimed "future of business" such as Tesla where the assembly lines are almost entirely automated.

Most people CANNOT perform highly intellectual jobs. That's not discrimination but fact. I worked with far too many PhD's that could not perform normal tasks to retain much respect for education obtained for the sake of them rather than for the actual knowledge it is suppose to add and retain.

I was a project manager (actually the entire electronics department manager) at a firm in Silicon Valley. I had five engineers and a couple of programmers working for me. Two of the engineers were PhD's. I STILL had to do half of the electronics design and more than half of the programming by myself.

Today I can't even get a job there because the college degree has now reached supremacy and a degree is far more important than the actual knowledge. Jobs are advertised "Embedded Software Engineer". (huh?) BS with 5 years experience, MS with 2 years of experience or PhD without any experience. They then describe a job that a technician used to do. Using schematic software? - That is draftsman work. PC Board layout software? That is a PC Board layout specialist; especially today with 1 mm wide leads that have to be inspected under a microscope. Also most engineers wouldn't know about the effects of noise caused by the clock speed of high frequency signals that limits the way lines can be run on boards. (Not to mention that if it is "Embedded" it is "Firmware" and not software.)

As the Millennial Generation takes over business simply by outliving the rest of us the US industrial base stands to lose a great deal. And while some REALLY good people are also appearing among the Millennials they are by far in the minority any more. I worked in companies in which EVERYONE was remarkable. Now they are few and far between and perhaps it will take another Great Depression with millions starving to death before there is a reset and a real change in values.
20-02-2018 22:23
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5738)
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
He (Obama) took it from 65% of GDP to a high of 106% of GDP.


Whooa shit! I stand corrected!

Price controls never work

Would you call minimum wage a price control?


Yes. The result is predictable. Available jobs decrease as companies lay off some and make others work harder to keep their payroll somewhere near the same, or close businesses in areas affected by the increase entirely and maintain their business where the price of labor is not controlled. Instead of the same number of workers making more money, some lose their jobs and make no money at all, while those that remain work harder for the increased wage the do receive. This is the case if the minimum wage law dictates a higher price than the workers are worth on the open market.

The price of a worker is the same as the price of anything else. It is normally governed by supply and demand.

There are a lot of unskilled workers and not enough jobs for them. There is a glut in unskilled workers in the market. The price (worker pay) is low. If the price discovery for an unskilled worker happens to be greater than the present minimum wage law, the minimum wage law is effectively pointless.

There are more jobs in programming right now than workers to fill them right now. There is a scarcity of workers that know these skills. The price (worker pay) is higher.

In most cities across the United States currently, minimum wage laws dictate a higher price than the unskilled worker is worth on the open market. This means cities are losing businesses that hire these people. Those businesses are either closing (and their owners just retiring), closing (to move to cheaper labor outside the city), or staying put and laying off part of their work force to pay for those that remain.

Instead of making minimum wage, the laid off worker now makes ZERO. Jobs are fewer to come by, too.

Such is the result of the minimum wage, when set to a price higher than what the open market would pay an unskilled worker.


Even more dramatic is the massive scale of over-taxation in California. It has come to the point where industry and the people with money are fleeing the state.

Very true. Many of them are moving into Washington, then passing the same stupid laws that destroyed the economy in California. It's like the hand of Cthulu wandering the countryside destroying everything they touch.
Wake wrote:
With this of course means a dropping tax base and more tax increases to make up for the short fall.

Of course Sacramento and the City of San Francisco wouldn't want to give up any of their money now or curtail any of their programs, would they?
Wake wrote:
While in the major cities housing inventories are low and hence completely overpriced (one bedroom 600 sq ft. apartment in San Francisco starting at $650,000)

Yup. A direct result of price controls. The same thing is happening right now in Seattle. It's just not matured as far as San Francisco yet.
Wake wrote:
there are fewer and fewer jobs that CAN pay minimum wages.

Yup.
Wake wrote:
So everyone is living on welfare from the acts of their own making - demanding more money for the work they do.

Which only increases the government budgets even more through taxation to pay for them all.

Isn't socialism grand?

Wake wrote:
In a smart society you have the jobs chasing the workers and not the reverse. You set your tax levels low enough to promote business startups and growth.

You also get rid of most regulations. They are a form of tax also.

Will Sacramento get their head out of the wall long enough to see this?

Wake wrote:
Instead what we're seeing is the proclaimed "future of business" such as Tesla where the assembly lines are almost entirely automated.

Looks like there's a good chance they will leave the Bay Area too. We'll see how well they survive the latest piece of crap they are just putting on the road.

These cars are NOT built well.

Wake wrote:
Most people CANNOT perform highly intellectual jobs.

Anyone that wants to take the time to get trained can perform better paying jobs than unskilled labor. This is about initiative, not intelligence.
Wake wrote:
That's not discrimination but fact.

No, it's discrimination.
Wake wrote:
I worked with far too many PhD's that could not perform normal tasks to retain much respect for education obtained for the sake of them rather than for the actual knowledge it is suppose to add and retain.

Heh. I've known mechanical engineers with PhD's that couldn't operate the drill press. I've known electrical engineers with PhD's that have difficulty figuring out which end of the soldering iron to hold.
Wake wrote:
I was a project manager (actually the entire electronics department manager) at a firm in Silicon Valley. I had five engineers and a couple of programmers working for me. Two of the engineers were PhD's. I STILL had to do half of the electronics design and more than half of the programming by myself.

I enjoy electronics design and programming. That's why I do what I do.
Wake wrote:
Today I can't even get a job there because the college degree has now reached supremacy and a degree is far more important than the actual knowledge. Jobs are advertised "Embedded Software Engineer". (huh?) BS with 5 years experience, MS with 2 years of experience or PhD without any experience. They then describe a job that a technician used to do. Using schematic software? - That is draftsman work. PC Board layout software? That is a PC Board layout specialist; especially today with 1 mm wide leads that have to be inspected under a microscope. Also most engineers wouldn't know about the effects of noise caused by the clock speed of high frequency signals that limits the way lines can be run on boards. (Not to mention that if it is "Embedded" it is "Firmware" and not software.)

Using schematic capture software is a normal tool for an electronics engineer these days. It is not draftsman work. The electronics engineer also lays out the PC board. He has too. He is the only one that knows about the RF propagation problems on circuit traces. Embedded software is not the firmware. The embedded software engineer may ALSO write firmware though.

Both embedded software and firmware software are software.

Wake wrote:
As the Millennial Generation takes over business simply by outliving the rest of us the US industrial base stands to lose a great deal.

It already has...decades ago. What rock have you been hiding under?
Wake wrote:
And while some REALLY good people are also appearing among the Millennials they are by far in the minority any more.

It has always been that way, dude.
Wake wrote:
I worked in companies in which EVERYONE was remarkable.

So have I (well except for a few twits that manage to get into any company).
Wake wrote:
Now they are few and far between

That does seem to be the case. Microsoft, up here in Seattle, seem to now be the proud owners of the World's Largest Ball of Twine. That's about the best way I can describe what Windows has become (other than the World Largest Ball of Duct Tape).

Amazon is not much better. They took a fast website written in C++ and Perl and converted it to run in Java (the COBOL of today). You have probably noticed how slow the thing runs nowadays. About the only thing running in C++ there now is some of the backend services and the cow.

They DO have their Alexa product. It is doing extremely well. It works and it has the best voice quality and ability to expand of any voice assistant device. There are still gaps between Google and Alexa that will remain politically sticky, but for Amazon, the thing is a huge success.

Wake wrote:
and perhaps it will take another Great Depression with millions starving to death before there is a reset and a real change in values.


Perhaps. The conditions for it are certainly setting up for one. Thank the easy money coming from the Fed for that. You'll see it when the speculation becomes more rampant. It looks like it's going to hit the housing market again. Stuff like Bitcoin may be part of it this time.


The Parrot Killer
20-02-2018 23:50
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1046)
ITN wrote:
It looks like it's going to hit the housing market again.


OK, with the biz I'm in you obviously peaked my interest. What makes you think so?

I know a lot of investors are in over their heads with rentals they've bought up with "cheap money" the last eight years, but they can shed those off pretty easy if needed. I don't see a lot of adjustable rate mortgages anymore, that's what helped topple the housing market in 08. Also Mr. Dod and Mr. Frank and Mr Raines are not out there stiff arming banks into "fair" lending practices. I don't see it right now. What is it that you see?
21-02-2018 00:15
Wake
★★★★★
(3396)
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Most people CANNOT perform highly intellectual jobs.

Anyone that wants to take the time to get trained can perform better paying jobs than unskilled labor. This is about initiative, not intelligence.


Getting better training can raise above unskilled labor. Even into jobs that pay more in the long run than anything I made. But that doesn't mean that you can educate anyone to be a physicist or an engineer.

Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
That's not discrimination but fact.

No, it's discrimination.


As I said, it's like talking to a wall. You don't even understand the English language. You don't discriminate when you do not hire someone that isn't capable of performing a task. Neither do you discriminate by have college entrance exams that fail people.

Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Today I can't even get a job there because the college degree has now reached supremacy and a degree is far more important than the actual knowledge. Jobs are advertised "Embedded Software Engineer". (huh?) BS with 5 years experience, MS with 2 years of experience or PhD without any experience. They then describe a job that a technician used to do. Using schematic software? - That is draftsman work. PC Board layout software? That is a PC Board layout specialist; especially today with 1 mm wide leads that have to be inspected under a microscope. Also most engineers wouldn't know about the effects of noise caused by the clock speed of high frequency signals that limits the way lines can be run on boards. (Not to mention that if it is "Embedded" it is "Firmware" and not software.)

Using schematic capture software is a normal tool for an electronics engineer these days. It is not draftsman work. The electronics engineer also lays out the PC board. He has too. He is the only one that knows about the RF propagation problems on circuit traces. Embedded software is not the firmware. The embedded software engineer may ALSO write firmware though.

Both embedded software and firmware software are software.


That's why I was an engineer and you aren't. Software and firmware are two completely different things.

Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
As the Millennial Generation takes over business simply by outliving the rest of us the US industrial base stands to lose a great deal.

It already has...decades ago. What rock have you been hiding under?
Wake wrote:
And while some REALLY good people are also appearing among the Millennials they are by far in the minority any more.

It has always been that way, dude.


There's that wall again. You just said that showing selection was discrimination and now you're saying the opposite.

Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
and perhaps it will take another Great Depression with millions starving to death before there is a reset and a real change in values.


Perhaps. The conditions for it are certainly setting up for one. Thank the easy money coming from the Fed for that. You'll see it when the speculation becomes more rampant. It looks like it's going to hit the housing market again. Stuff like Bitcoin may be part of it this time.


Economics isn't necessarily behind things like the Depression nor Obama's Great Recession.

In the Depression there was nothing to sell due to weather conditions and poor agricultural methods.

And in Obama's recession there was no money to buy it with. The idea was to form so much need that the people would rise up and demand a socialism. The entire idea behind having Obama elected rather than any other Democrat was that there wasn't a black man or woman in the US that wouldn't have taken it personally if he hadn't been selected. And Obama wasn't elected by Democrats - he was elected by Republicans because he had a very moderate stance and the Republican party have passed every single civil rights act since the Civil War and yet the Democrats formed by the Klu Klux Klan have managed to convince the entire world with the total assistance of the media that the opposite is the case.
21-02-2018 01:52
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5738)
GasGuzzler wrote:
ITN wrote:
It looks like it's going to hit the housing market again.


OK, with the biz I'm in you obviously peaked my interest. What makes you think so?

I know a lot of investors are in over their heads with rentals they've bought up with "cheap money" the last eight years, but they can shed those off pretty easy if needed. I don't see a lot of adjustable rate mortgages anymore, that's what helped topple the housing market in 08. Also Mr. Dod and Mr. Frank and Mr Raines are not out there stiff arming banks into "fair" lending practices. I don't see it right now. What is it that you see?


I see the temptation building in the government to stiff arm the banks again as housing prices rise.

I see the speculation increasing in housing, including the return of the flippers.

I see the banks packaging loans again for resale in exactly the same way the built their Jenga tower last time.

I see continued easy money from the Fed, artificially keeping interest rates low.

You see, before the Fed, businesses could watch the interest rates and make some decisions based on them. Back then, interest rates were a true reflection of how many people were saving instead of spending.

If people are saving, interest rates go lower. So does velocity. It's time for a business to borrow the money and make improvements, since sales are down. It's time to prepare for when the good times return. The incentive is there to limit improvements to the loans available at the time only.

If people are spending instead, interest rates go higher. So does velocity. It's time for a business to concentrate on selling rather than making improvements. The improvements that were made allow a company to more successfully compete for business.

By introducing artificial price controls on money itself in the form of interest rates, businesses today receive conflicting signals. They are left blind to the market mood.

When rates are low, the incentive is to improve rather than concentrate on selling. The trouble is, when rates are low and velocity is high, people are spending when a business has money tied up in improving and building. When rates are high and velocity is low, businesses have incentive to limit improvements and concentrate on selling, but few are buying.

The Fed, like any other oligarchy trying to implement price controls, is always too late after the horse leaves the barn. They fail to raise interest rates until it too late. They fail to lower them in time when people turn to saving instead. The result is predictable. Shortage of money.

Businesses get stuck trying to sell when velocity is low, and also get stuck with improvements that overrun initial price estimates because velocity is high.

The Keynesian school of economics says to lower interest rates to 'jumpstart' the economy. This can work to a limited degree, but only when the market is normal. If the market is not normal, this school of though fails miserably.

The Austrian school of economics understands this and why it doesn't work. It understands the real role of interest rates and loans.

Easy money (low interest rates) cause inflationary pressures. If people are in a saving mood, they are looking for anything to put their money into, and they have incentive to borrow to do that. The speculations build, all with a foundation of a network of loans forming a vacuous foundation for it all. Under such conditions, a crash is inevitable.

The form of the crash is always the same. The apparent good times, but with a rotten foundation (the setup), followed by the crows coming home to roost (the actual crash).

When you see speculation based on borrowed money, it's time to hunker down for the approaching storm. This is exactly the form the Boom.Bust crash took, and is exactly the form the Housing Crisis crash took. It's even the form the crash and the Great Depression took.

Before each crash, people were having a rollicking good time, based on money they were getting from their investments, even borrowing to invest it. When the crash came, they were caught losing their investments, but with the loans still outstanding. The recovery involves unwinding all those loans (usually through bankruptcy) to restore a productive economy again.


The Parrot Killer
21-02-2018 02:08
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5738)
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Most people CANNOT perform highly intellectual jobs.

Anyone that wants to take the time to get trained can perform better paying jobs than unskilled labor. This is about initiative, not intelligence.


Getting better training can raise above unskilled labor. Even into jobs that pay more in the long run than anything I made. But that doesn't mean that you can educate anyone to be a physicist or an engineer.

You don't have to be. You just have to be willing to do something that others are doing, and that is worth something to somebody.

Have you looked at the cost of hiring a plumber lately, especially one that is willing to repipe the corroded mess in a typical house?

Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
That's not discrimination but fact.

No, it's discrimination.


As I said, it's like talking to a wall. You don't even understand the English language. You don't discriminate when you do not hire someone that isn't capable of performing a task. Neither do you discriminate by have college entrance exams that fail people.

But you DO discriminate when you say people can't learn or that they're stupid to learn.

A compositional error involving people as a class is the very definition of bigotry.

Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Today I can't even get a job there because the college degree has now reached supremacy and a degree is far more important than the actual knowledge. Jobs are advertised "Embedded Software Engineer". (huh?) BS with 5 years experience, MS with 2 years of experience or PhD without any experience. They then describe a job that a technician used to do. Using schematic software? - That is draftsman work. PC Board layout software? That is a PC Board layout specialist; especially today with 1 mm wide leads that have to be inspected under a microscope. Also most engineers wouldn't know about the effects of noise caused by the clock speed of high frequency signals that limits the way lines can be run on boards. (Not to mention that if it is "Embedded" it is "Firmware" and not software.)

Using schematic capture software is a normal tool for an electronics engineer these days. It is not draftsman work. The electronics engineer also lays out the PC board. He has too. He is the only one that knows about the RF propagation problems on circuit traces. Embedded software is not the firmware. The embedded software engineer may ALSO write firmware though.

Both embedded software and firmware software are software.


That's why I was an engineer and you aren't. Software and firmware are two completely different things.

Nope. Firmware is software, just like applications on a PC is software. The only difference is the storage medium. The processor running it is no different in it's basic design philosophy.
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
As the Millennial Generation takes over business simply by outliving the rest of us the US industrial base stands to lose a great deal.

It already has...decades ago. What rock have you been hiding under?
Wake wrote:
And while some REALLY good people are also appearing among the Millennials they are by far in the minority any more.

It has always been that way, dude.


There's that wall again. You just said that showing selection was discrimination and now you're saying the opposite.

No, it is YOU being a bigot again. The Millennals have smart folks and dumb folks, just like any other cohort. They have different experiences and values than you do, that's all. That's not necessarily bad. You were the same to YOUR parents.
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
and perhaps it will take another Great Depression with millions starving to death before there is a reset and a real change in values.


Perhaps. The conditions for it are certainly setting up for one. Thank the easy money coming from the Fed for that. You'll see it when the speculation becomes more rampant. It looks like it's going to hit the housing market again. Stuff like Bitcoin may be part of it this time.


Economics isn't necessarily behind things like the Depression nor Obama's Great Recession.

Yes it is. Nothing else is.
Wake wrote:
In the Depression there was nothing to sell due to weather conditions and poor agricultural methods.

That's economics, dude.
Wake wrote:
And in Obama's recession there was no money to buy it with.

That's economics, dude.
Wake wrote:
The idea was to form so much need that the people would rise up and demand a socialism.

Nope. No great master plan. Obama's biggest interest seemed to play as much golf as possible. He just f**ked up. He DID actively take racism back by many decades. People who weren't racist at all BECAME racist because of Obama.
Wake wrote:
The entire idea behind having Obama elected rather than any other Democrat was that there wasn't a black man or woman in the US that wouldn't have taken it personally if he hadn't been selected. And Obama wasn't elected by Democrats - he was elected by Republicans because he had a very moderate stance and the Republican party have passed every single civil rights act since the Civil War and yet the Democrats formed by the Klu Klux Klan have managed to convince the entire world with the total assistance of the media that the opposite is the case.

He was elected by Democrats, dude, followed by the electoral college, which went to the Democrats that election.

It is certainly true the Democrats have built up an image completely opposite of what they are.


The Parrot Killer
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