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07-02-2018 14:28
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
[b]GasGuzzler wrote:....That flu is a nasty one this year. Hearing of people going to the emergency room with the flu and waiting 7 hrs to be seen they're so overwhelmed.
Spouse had the flu bad, late last year. Finally got over it. But I was worried. During the course of seeing my doctor, I also got the flu shot. Haven't had any flu this season. Maybe I won't. Our medical is good, see doctors quickly. As stated earlier, pharmacy(which is next to the exit from seeing the doctor) is only a $1 for meds. Last two times, I walked right up to the pharmacists. They put my meds together quickly, while I waited a short time.
Everybody should have our insurance.... 'cept fer re-pubic-lick-uns. In a democracy(which the U.S. should be) re-pubic-lick-uns need to go extinct.
On another issue, I accidentally locked my keys in my car the other day, while viewing a small water soaked landslide that blocked the highway, well out in the country. Called the AAA & a tow truck driver came out within 45minutes. He efficiently had gear to wedge my door & had a rod to open my door. Worked out very well.
07-02-2018 15:10
Wake
★★★★★
(3417)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
How is the kid with strep?

Hey thanks for asking Tim,
Still no good, temp around 101. He's has strep before and antibiotics knock it in the arse pretty quick. Wondering if he picked up something new while he was at the doc office. That flu is a nasty one this year. Hearing of people going to the emergency room with the flu and waiting 7 hrs to be seen they're so overwhelmed. Yuck.


The flu is especially nasty for a couple of reasons now - there are so many different strains that you have to make a wild guess which one will gain a foothold this year and make sufficient vaccine. Plus there are more and more people believing the crap spread on social media that it is the vaccine that is causing the illnesses. I have a loony brother that believes those sorts of rumors.
07-02-2018 15:36
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1047)
Wake wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
How is the kid with strep?

Hey thanks for asking Tim,
Still no good, temp around 101. He's has strep before and antibiotics knock it in the arse pretty quick. Wondering if he picked up something new while he was at the doc office. That flu is a nasty one this year. Hearing of people going to the emergency room with the flu and waiting 7 hrs to be seen they're so overwhelmed. Yuck.


The flu is especially nasty for a couple of reasons now - there are so many different strains that you have to make a wild guess which one will gain a foothold this year and make sufficient vaccine. Plus there are more and more people believing the crap spread on social media that it is the vaccine that is causing the illnesses. I have a loony brother that believes those sorts of rumors.


Had the flu 2 times in the last 25 years. Haven't ever gotten a flu shot. Wife and kids used to get the shot, but they quit after getting the shot and the flu 3 years in a row. My friend who's been a nurse for years is required by the hospital he works at to get the shot. He says otherwise no way he'd put that crap in his body. Also had another nurse at the doctors office tell me the same thing when I had the kid in for sprained ankle. I really don't know what to believe on this. You hear a lot of gov officials really pushing the shot...red flag to me. Why would they push it so hard? They do have to justify their funding for next year.....I honestly don't know.
07-02-2018 17:22
Wake
★★★★★
(3417)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Wake wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
How is the kid with strep?

Hey thanks for asking Tim,
Still no good, temp around 101. He's has strep before and antibiotics knock it in the arse pretty quick. Wondering if he picked up something new while he was at the doc office. That flu is a nasty one this year. Hearing of people going to the emergency room with the flu and waiting 7 hrs to be seen they're so overwhelmed. Yuck.


The flu is especially nasty for a couple of reasons now - there are so many different strains that you have to make a wild guess which one will gain a foothold this year and make sufficient vaccine. Plus there are more and more people believing the crap spread on social media that it is the vaccine that is causing the illnesses. I have a loony brother that believes those sorts of rumors.


Had the flu 2 times in the last 25 years. Haven't ever gotten a flu shot. Wife and kids used to get the shot, but they quit after getting the shot and the flu 3 years in a row. My friend who's been a nurse for years is required by the hospital he works at to get the shot. He says otherwise no way he'd put that crap in his body. Also had another nurse at the doctors office tell me the same thing when I had the kid in for sprained ankle. I really don't know what to believe on this. You hear a lot of gov officials really pushing the shot...red flag to me. Why would they push it so hard? They do have to justify their funding for next year.....I honestly don't know.


Beyond the fact that they have trouble guessimating what flu strain will be occurring this year (this year's strain can kill you within hours) there's also the case that it HAS to gain entry into the particular group - this is generally via children who have to go to public schools. But you could be in an area in which the flu virus never manages to gain entry.

Even if the flu vaccine is improper it has still primed your immune system so that the strain you do get is generally not as severe.

Any nurse that would say that she wouldn't be vaccinated is not to be trusted.

Vaccines cannot cause illness unless you're allergic to some compound in it. This does occur but it is very rare.

My brother would not get a pneumonia vaccination and caught pneumonia and nearly died. Four hospitals mis-diagnosed it as a pulled back muscle. And finally I took him down to an appointment with his foot doctor.

My sister-in-law had been a nurse before and knew enough to always get copies of X-rays. She begged the foot doctor to look at it and he took some convincing to look since that isn't his specialty. But eventually he plugged the disk in. He barely glanced at it and picked up the phone and called the local high-end hospital and said he was sending over a case of severe pneumonia. I raced my brother there and they were waiting for him at the door. He was taken immediately into emergency surgery. He was 10 hours in the operating room as they drained half of one lung cavity of all the pus. He spend another 10 days in the ICU and another 7 days after that in the recovery ward. All this time with a continuous antibiotic drip. They said he was mere hours from dying from septicemia.

It took him another month to get back on his feet and what is he saying now? He wouldn't get a flu vaccination because it's poisonous.

You cannot help stupid.

My other brother is about to retire. He is retiring at 59 from a city job that has this absolutely rediculous retirement benefit. He has never saved any money because this retirement is almost as much money as full time work. I was wondering how our city could offer such benefits and now see that our small town is $8 Million in debt and blames it on city workers retirements. But at the same time they've declared this a sanctuary city and are paying illegals welfare!

I can't seem to get through to him that if the city goes bankrupt that he is not "grandfathered in". That it is the decision of a bankruptcy court to make ALL of the decisions and that he could end up with a small percentage of his present salary. Luckily he is an electrician with job management experience. But that isn't what he thinks is going to happen.

You can't cure stupid.

Since Reagan the government and media have gone entirely psychotic. We have Americans homeless and living on the street WHILE HOLDING DOWN JOBS. These aren't druggies or crazies and the cities are ignoring them and paying welfare to illegal aliens! In Oakland there is an encampment of perhaps 100 homeless just a mile from city hall. And they are paying welfare to illegal aliens. In the meantime the media is supporting sanctuary cities and totally ignoring the homeless problem unless they can imply that they are illegal aliens that "we should help".

You can't cure stupid.
10-02-2018 21:26
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebarf steenkin' stutterin' stutterin' filthy vile reprobate rootin'(& rottin') racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner & many time(plus 1) threatener wake-me-up" wiffed:... government and media have gone entirely psychotic.
Such words have been spoken before:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/07/25/the-theory-of-political-leadership-that-donald-trump-shares-with-adolf-hitler/?utm_term=.ea7151e4130b
From the article:
No resemblance (to Hitler) has been stronger than Trump's claim that he "alone" could rescue America from its misery. Hitler famously conjured the model of "the genius, the great man" who alone held the key to a country's destiny. Calling democracy "a joke," Hitler fiercely disdained what he called "weak majorities." Progress and civilization could be achieved only through "the genius and energy of a great personality," wrote Hitler in "Mein Kampf," his racist political manifesto. Among the great personalities he included Frederick the Great of Prussia, Napoleon Bonaparte, Otto von Bismarck and, by implication, himself.
////////
Beethoven distained Napoleon Bonaparte, after "Napalmeon Blown-apart" named himself king. Dmitri Shostakovich composed several pieces against Stalin that would have got him executed if he had released them before Stalin died. I can see some eogtistical re-pubic-lick-un think itself desperate enough to compose a symphony in HIGH DISHONOR TO THE KINKED KING OF AMERICA, THE CLANDESTINE "don'T rump".
///////
Hitler demeaned the present German gov't & other countries that were "arrayed against German whitehood. "don'T rump" demeans american gov't by working to unite the white(neo-nazi & kkk brotherhoods-emphasis: hoods or hoodlums).
Sorra ta all the old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebarf steenkin' stuttering stuttering filthy vile reprobate rooting(& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner & many time(plus 1) threateners. Da nooses 'round yer necks will come tight in the 2018 elections. Already, recent elections(Virginia, Alabama, Missouri) have re-pubic-lick-uns on the run.
11-02-2018 21:08
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1250)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
How is the kid with strep?

Hey thanks for asking Tim,
Still no good, temp around 101. He's has strep before and antibiotics knock it in the arse pretty quick. Wondering if he picked up something new while he was at the doc office. That flu is a nasty one this year. Hearing of people going to the emergency room with the flu and waiting 7 hrs to be seen they're so overwhelmed. Yuck.


You have my sympathy. Not much use but....

Good luck.

And P.S.; At least it is not just the British health industry that is overwhelmed then.
11-02-2018 21:25
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1250)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Wake wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
How is the kid with strep?

Hey thanks for asking Tim,
Still no good, temp around 101. He's has strep before and antibiotics knock it in the arse pretty quick. Wondering if he picked up something new while he was at the doc office. That flu is a nasty one this year. Hearing of people going to the emergency room with the flu and waiting 7 hrs to be seen they're so overwhelmed. Yuck.


The flu is especially nasty for a couple of reasons now - there are so many different strains that you have to make a wild guess which one will gain a foothold this year and make sufficient vaccine. Plus there are more and more people believing the crap spread on social media that it is the vaccine that is causing the illnesses. I have a loony brother that believes those sorts of rumors.


Had the flu 2 times in the last 25 years. Haven't ever gotten a flu shot. Wife and kids used to get the shot, but they quit after getting the shot and the flu 3 years in a row. My friend who's been a nurse for years is required by the hospital he works at to get the shot. He says otherwise no way he'd put that crap in his body. Also had another nurse at the doctors office tell me the same thing when I had the kid in for sprained ankle. I really don't know what to believe on this. You hear a lot of gov officials really pushing the shot...red flag to me. Why would they push it so hard? They do have to justify their funding for next year.....I honestly don't know.


If the number of people who have had the shot is high enough then that strain of flue will not spread. We all don't get it.

Here in the UK they went with a 3 strian jab but the 4th strain got through. That was 100% predictable.

If they had not used any vaccination then all 4 strains would have been active.
11-02-2018 22:33
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1047)
Some pretty big claims in this article...haven't had time to dissect it, but an interesting read...

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/nurses-continue-be-justified-refusing-mandatory-flu-shots

What does it say about the infallibility of the 'safe and effective' vaccine narrative when those working within the very system that delivers the shots are refusing to take them themselves? Is it because nurses see vaccine injuries firsthand? Are the nurses, or anyone else, justified in refusing the flu shot?

Every quarter, the US Department of Justice (DOJ) issues a report to the Advisory Commission on Childhood Vaccines on vaccine injuries and deaths based on adjudicated settlements in the Vaccine Court. The settlements for the flu shot, which is now part of the recommended childhood schedule, are topping several consecutive DOJ reports. Furthermore, according to the US Special Claims Court website, flu shot settlements increased from $4.9 million in 2014 to $61 million in 2015 – an increase of more than a 1000 percent, and the year of 2016 saw an over 50 percent further increase from the year before.
Edited on 11-02-2018 22:36
11-02-2018 22:41
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1047)
Tim the plumber wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
How is the kid with strep?

Hey thanks for asking Tim,
Still no good, temp around 101. He's has strep before and antibiotics knock it in the arse pretty quick. Wondering if he picked up something new while he was at the doc office. That flu is a nasty one this year. Hearing of people going to the emergency room with the flu and waiting 7 hrs to be seen they're so overwhelmed. Yuck.


You have my sympathy. Not much use but....

Good luck.

And P.S.; At least it is not just the British health industry that is overwhelmed then.


Update on the boy...he's fine now, just took a few extra days to kick it. Played a 7th grade basketball game last night, he was good for 5 minutes then lost his legs. Just tired.
He'll be fine.
12-02-2018 09:30
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1250)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
How is the kid with strep?

Hey thanks for asking Tim,
Still no good, temp around 101. He's has strep before and antibiotics knock it in the arse pretty quick. Wondering if he picked up something new while he was at the doc office. That flu is a nasty one this year. Hearing of people going to the emergency room with the flu and waiting 7 hrs to be seen they're so overwhelmed. Yuck.


You have my sympathy. Not much use but....

Good luck.

And P.S.; At least it is not just the British health industry that is overwhelmed then.


Update on the boy...he's fine now, just took a few extra days to kick it. Played a 7th grade basketball game last night, he was good for 5 minutes then lost his legs. Just tired.
He'll be fine.


Good.
12-02-2018 16:42
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5875)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
How is the kid with strep?

Hey thanks for asking Tim,
Still no good, temp around 101. He's has strep before and antibiotics knock it in the arse pretty quick. Wondering if he picked up something new while he was at the doc office. That flu is a nasty one this year. Hearing of people going to the emergency room with the flu and waiting 7 hrs to be seen they're so overwhelmed. Yuck.


You have my sympathy. Not much use but....

Good luck.

And P.S.; At least it is not just the British health industry that is overwhelmed then.


Update on the boy...he's fine now, just took a few extra days to kick it. Played a 7th grade basketball game last night, he was good for 5 minutes then lost his legs. Just tired.
He'll be fine.

Great news!


The Parrot Killer
17-02-2018 16:02
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1250)
Wake wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Wake wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
How is the kid with strep?

Hey thanks for asking Tim,
Still no good, temp around 101. He's has strep before and antibiotics knock it in the arse pretty quick. Wondering if he picked up something new while he was at the doc office. That flu is a nasty one this year. Hearing of people going to the emergency room with the flu and waiting 7 hrs to be seen they're so overwhelmed. Yuck.


The flu is especially nasty for a couple of reasons now - there are so many different strains that you have to make a wild guess which one will gain a foothold this year and make sufficient vaccine. Plus there are more and more people believing the crap spread on social media that it is the vaccine that is causing the illnesses. I have a loony brother that believes those sorts of rumors.


Had the flu 2 times in the last 25 years. Haven't ever gotten a flu shot. Wife and kids used to get the shot, but they quit after getting the shot and the flu 3 years in a row. My friend who's been a nurse for years is required by the hospital he works at to get the shot. He says otherwise no way he'd put that crap in his body. Also had another nurse at the doctors office tell me the same thing when I had the kid in for sprained ankle. I really don't know what to believe on this. You hear a lot of gov officials really pushing the shot...red flag to me. Why would they push it so hard? They do have to justify their funding for next year.....I honestly don't know.


Beyond the fact that they have trouble guessimating what flu strain will be occurring this year (this year's strain can kill you within hours) there's also the case that it HAS to gain entry into the particular group - this is generally via children who have to go to public schools. But you could be in an area in which the flu virus never manages to gain entry.

Even if the flu vaccine is improper it has still primed your immune system so that the strain you do get is generally not as severe.

Any nurse that would say that she wouldn't be vaccinated is not to be trusted.

Vaccines cannot cause illness unless you're allergic to some compound in it. This does occur but it is very rare.

My brother would not get a pneumonia vaccination and caught pneumonia and nearly died. Four hospitals mis-diagnosed it as a pulled back muscle. And finally I took him down to an appointment with his foot doctor.

My sister-in-law had been a nurse before and knew enough to always get copies of X-rays. She begged the foot doctor to look at it and he took some convincing to look since that isn't his specialty. But eventually he plugged the disk in. He barely glanced at it and picked up the phone and called the local high-end hospital and said he was sending over a case of severe pneumonia. I raced my brother there and they were waiting for him at the door. He was taken immediately into emergency surgery. He was 10 hours in the operating room as they drained half of one lung cavity of all the pus. He spend another 10 days in the ICU and another 7 days after that in the recovery ward. All this time with a continuous antibiotic drip. They said he was mere hours from dying from septicemia.

It took him another month to get back on his feet and what is he saying now? He wouldn't get a flu vaccination because it's poisonous.

You cannot help stupid.

My other brother is about to retire. He is retiring at 59 from a city job that has this absolutely rediculous retirement benefit. He has never saved any money because this retirement is almost as much money as full time work. I was wondering how our city could offer such benefits and now see that our small town is $8 Million in debt and blames it on city workers retirements. But at the same time they've declared this a sanctuary city and are paying illegals welfare!

I can't seem to get through to him that if the city goes bankrupt that he is not "grandfathered in". That it is the decision of a bankruptcy court to make ALL of the decisions and that he could end up with a small percentage of his present salary. Luckily he is an electrician with job management experience. But that isn't what he thinks is going to happen.

You can't cure stupid.

Since Reagan the government and media have gone entirely psychotic. We have Americans homeless and living on the street WHILE HOLDING DOWN JOBS. These aren't druggies or crazies and the cities are ignoring them and paying welfare to illegal aliens! In Oakland there is an encampment of perhaps 100 homeless just a mile from city hall. And they are paying welfare to illegal aliens. In the meantime the media is supporting sanctuary cities and totally ignoring the homeless problem unless they can imply that they are illegal aliens that "we should help".

You can't cure stupid.


Extremely well said.

The weird thing of the left thinking that mass migration is a somehow a good idea for the poor is beyond madness.

The capacity for labour mobility is often the cause for people being forced to chace the capital rather than the money chacing the labour.

I fully support helping the poor of the world. The best way we could do that would be to stop using food as fuel. That policy is killing (my guess) 20 million people per year.

Making labour highly mobile however is not going to get industry to move to Africa.
19-02-2018 06:10
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"AGW denier liar whiner tipped the leakey plunger" plugged:...weird thing of the left thinking that mass migration is a(sic) somehow a good idea for the poor....
It is conservatives, who after draining the work out of the poor & the moneyed material out of the land, move on, leaving the poor in the lurch to wander to other places to survive(& often not to survive).
19-02-2018 09:44
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1250)
litesong wrote:
"AGW denier liar whiner tipped the leakey plunger" plugged:...weird thing of the left thinking that mass migration is a(sic) somehow a good idea for the poor....
It is conservatives, who after draining the work out of the poor & the moneyed material out of the land, move on, leaving the poor in the lurch to wander to other places to survive(& often not to survive).


Which is my point you brainless fool.
19-02-2018 11:34
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"AGW denier liar whiner tipped the leakey plunger" plugged:
litesong wrote:
"AGW denier liar whiner tipped the leakey plunger" plugged:...weird thing of the left thinking that mass migration is a(sic) somehow a good idea for the poor....
It is conservatives, who after draining the work out of the poor & the moneyed material out of the land, move on, leaving the poor in the lurch to wander to other places to survive(& often not to survive).
Which is my point you brainless fool.
Das NICHT was das sehen. But, to give an egotistic(& conservative) reply, you pretend that u stated what I did. "AGW denier liar whiner tipped the leakey plunger" continues as "AGW denier liar whiner tipped the leakey plunger".
Edited on 19-02-2018 11:36
19-02-2018 16:52
James___
★★★☆☆
(736)
Into the Night wrote:

Sun isn't shining. This is Seattle, remember?


The Sun always shines. If not then how could you see those beautiful grey clouds and the snow packed mountains to the east and the west ? It just shines differently.
19-02-2018 17:02
James___
★★★☆☆
(736)
Tim the plumber wrote:


Extremely well said.

The weird thing of the left thinking that mass migration is a somehow a good idea for the poor is beyond madness.

The capacity for labour mobility is often the cause for people being forced to chace the capital rather than the money chacing the labour.

I fully support helping the poor of the world. The best way we could do that would be to stop using food as fuel. That policy is killing (my guess) 20 million people per year.

Making labour highly mobile however is not going to get industry to move to Africa.


Capitalism is based on exploitation. Madagascar is an example of this. It's land is being stripped for the minerals in it. In some places only a basic economy is possible because of few natural resources and a lack of education.
Over population is a concern of many scientists because the resources of the Earth are limited. The example they use is that it's just not possible for the world to live in a luxurious lifestyle such as what Americans enjoy. Many have said that even Americans need to use some self discipline because it may not be possible to maintain the American way of life.
And if we consider the future, it might be viewed that we are the aliens in Independence Day (1996). The movie did not explain why an alien species would destroy the Earth. It's natural resources would be one compelling reason.
The movie Avatar makes a similar statement. Pursuing wealth at the destruction of a planet is acceptable.
And yet it may be possible to pursue an economic model based on sustainability. Basically we could have a quality of life that would help to ensure that man will have a home (Earth) for millennia to come. But this is not a capitalistic concern.
Edited on 19-02-2018 17:03
19-02-2018 17:35
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5875)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:

Sun isn't shining. This is Seattle, remember?


The Sun always shines. If not then how could you see those beautiful grey clouds and the snow packed mountains to the east and the west ? It just shines differently.


We most often can't in the winter. Those mountains are very often obscured.

Today is clear and cold, though. We finally get to see something!



The Parrot Killer
Edited on 19-02-2018 17:50
19-02-2018 17:49
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5875)
James___ wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:


Extremely well said.

The weird thing of the left thinking that mass migration is a somehow a good idea for the poor is beyond madness.

The capacity for labour mobility is often the cause for people being forced to chace the capital rather than the money chacing the labour.

I fully support helping the poor of the world. The best way we could do that would be to stop using food as fuel. That policy is killing (my guess) 20 million people per year.

Making labour highly mobile however is not going to get industry to move to Africa.


Capitalism is based on exploitation. Madagascar is an example of this. It's land is being stripped for the minerals in it. In some places only a basic economy is possible because of few natural resources and a lack of education.
Over population is a concern of many scientists because the resources of the Earth are limited. The example they use is that it's just not possible for the world to live in a luxurious lifestyle such as what Americans enjoy. Many have said that even Americans need to use some self discipline because it may not be possible to maintain the American way of life.
And if we consider the future, it might be viewed that we are the aliens in Independence Day (1996). The movie did not explain why an alien species would destroy the Earth. It's natural resources would be one compelling reason.
The movie Avatar makes a similar statement. Pursuing wealth at the destruction of a planet is acceptable.
And yet it may be possible to pursue an economic model based on sustainability. Basically we could have a quality of life that would help to ensure that man will have a home (Earth) for millennia to come. But this is not a capitalistic concern.


You should learn about the world through something besides movies like Avatar.

I guess all those military coups, crappy judicial system, general corruption everywhere in government, etc. have nothing to do with Madagascar's problems, eh?

Most of Madagascar's resources are untapped. Most of it's economy is agriculturally based, with most of that being vanilla, cloves, cacao, and coffee. Mining is a small part of their economy and is primarily in the form of ilmenite (a source of titanium). No one is raping Madagascar. It is only in the last couple of years that stability has reached the region at all.

Since you would rather see a world dictatorship (with you as the dictator), you can go stuff it. Leave the people of Madagascar be.


The Parrot Killer
19-02-2018 18:44
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1250)
James___ wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:


Extremely well said.

The weird thing of the left thinking that mass migration is a somehow a good idea for the poor is beyond madness.

The capacity for labour mobility is often the cause for people being forced to chace the capital rather than the money chacing the labour.

I fully support helping the poor of the world. The best way we could do that would be to stop using food as fuel. That policy is killing (my guess) 20 million people per year.

Making labour highly mobile however is not going to get industry to move to Africa.


Capitalism is based on exploitation. Madagascar is an example of this. It's land is being stripped for the minerals in it. In some places only a basic economy is possible because of few natural resources and a lack of education.
Over population is a concern of many scientists because the resources of the Earth are limited. The example they use is that it's just not possible for the world to live in a luxurious lifestyle such as what Americans enjoy. Many have said that even Americans need to use some self discipline because it may not be possible to maintain the American way of life.
And if we consider the future, it might be viewed that we are the aliens in Independence Day (1996). The movie did not explain why an alien species would destroy the Earth. It's natural resources would be one compelling reason.
The movie Avatar makes a similar statement. Pursuing wealth at the destruction of a planet is acceptable.
And yet it may be possible to pursue an economic model based on sustainability. Basically we could have a quality of life that would help to ensure that man will have a home (Earth) for millennia to come. But this is not a capitalistic concern.


Whilst you are your scientific ideas from crap bad science films I will use basic physics and an understanding of basic physical geography to work out what is happening to the world.

Resources are more plentiful now than they have ever been.

That is not unusual.

It has generally been the case that resources have always tended to get more availible over medium and long periods.

It sounds very surprising. But it is the case. The Romans mined many metals from the British isles. They often used up the minable ore and had to close the mine. The places they used have generally been reworked and mined far deeper by Victorian miners. The reason they got more out of the same hole was because the technology had improved and the ability of humans to extract the metal from the rock was better as well as such things as mine pumping.

Today there is very little mining in the UK. Ths is due to the fact that we, humanity, get our resources from the best places to do on the whole earth so a few super mines will supply the world with copper or whatever other resource. The grade of ore they use is so low in metal that it would be utterly unusable for a Roman. The ore used by the Romans would be utterly unecconomic today ecause the very high grade stuff is only ever in quantities so small that they are simply not worth the paperwork today.

This process of being better at getting the stuff we want from nature will continue.

We will shortly begin to capture asteroids. Once that happens the price of materials will drop hugely.
19-02-2018 19:08
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1047)
In the US, the poor would like to be middle class. The middle class would like to be rich. And the rich would like to be Warren Buffett. So who should decide what your income is? The federal f ing government?? That is just fine if you think the gov should be involved in class equalization. I have no problem with that. There are many failing countries around the world that operate that way, with an all powerful central gov. Go live in one of them. The US is not one of those places. The US was the "great experiment" that showed the world what personal freedom could produce. The libs would like to destroy that freedom and put the power back to the gov. It pisses me off. The Marxist Democrats will vote themselves total power any day of the week, all the while hiding behind the lie that they are "in it for the little guy". City after city has been under Democrat rule for decades, and they are all in decline. They have helped the little guy just enough to teach him to sit on his ass long enough to receive his handout. You people across the pond....if you haven't lived here then you don't get it. If you do live here, then you should. There is no excuse for the poverty we have, and don't spout off about education. I should be proof that any man willing to get off his fat ass can be productive and profitable. I do not envy people with more money. I work smarter and harder to earn some more. If I lost everything today I'd be first in line for any job tomorrow. I would do anything to support my family. I would not look to my president for help. I would not cry about it not being fair. I am entitled to nothing, except for the fruits of my labor!
James, Tim, Litebeer...do some research on what percentage entitlements are on the US Budget.
I'm all about helping those who can't help themselves. I give regularly to those charities. But in this land where there is more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, the entitlements are staggering and disgusting. It should be up to you, and only you, what income class you're in. I would say sorry about the rant, but I'm not. Quit ****ing with my USA!

ITN, it's all foggy yucky and cold here. I'm grumpy. How do you deal with it??
Edited on 19-02-2018 19:13
19-02-2018 19:57
James___
★★★☆☆
(736)
GasGuzzler wrote:
In the US, the poor would like to be middle class. The middle class would like to be rich. And the rich would like to be Warren Buffett. So who should decide what your income is? The federal f ing government?? That is just fine if you think the gov should be involved in class equalization. I have no problem with that. There are many failing countries around the world that operate that way, with an all powerful central gov. Go live in one of them. The US is not one of those places. The US was the "great experiment" that showed the world what personal freedom could produce. The libs would like to destroy that freedom and put the power back to the gov. It pisses me off. The Marxist Democrats will vote themselves total power any day of the week, all the while hiding behind the lie that they are "in it for the little guy". City after city has been under Democrat rule for decades, and they are all in decline. They have helped the little guy just enough to teach him to sit on his ass long enough to receive his handout. You people across the pond....if you haven't lived here then you don't get it. If you do live here, then you should. There is no excuse for the poverty we have, and don't spout off about education. I should be proof that any man willing to get off his fat ass can be productive and profitable. I do not envy people with more money. I work smarter and harder to earn some more. If I lost everything today I'd be first in line for any job tomorrow. I would do anything to support my family. I would not look to my president for help. I would not cry about it not being fair. I am entitled to nothing, except for the fruits of my labor!
James, Tim, Litebeer...do some research on what percentage entitlements are on the US Budget.
I'm all about helping those who can't help themselves. I give regularly to those charities. But in this land where there is more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, the entitlements are staggering and disgusting. It should be up to you, and only you, what income class you're in. I would say sorry about the rant, but I'm not. Quit ****ing with my USA!

ITN, it's all foggy yucky and cold here. I'm grumpy. How do you deal with it??


Gasguzzler,
The U.S. has a National Debt of over $20 Trillion. It's GDP (Gross Domestic Product) was $18.57 Trillion in 2016. The budget deficit is expect to top $1 Trillion in 2019.
I'm not sure how Americans can support such fiscal irresponsibility.
19-02-2018 20:19
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5875)
GasGuzzler wrote:
In the US, the poor would like to be middle class. The middle class would like to be rich. And the rich would like to be Warren Buffett. So who should decide what your income is? The federal f ing government?? That is just fine if you think the gov should be involved in class equalization. I have no problem with that. There are many failing countries around the world that operate that way, with an all powerful central gov. Go live in one of them. The US is not one of those places. The US was the "great experiment" that showed the world what personal freedom could produce. The libs would like to destroy that freedom and put the power back to the gov. It pisses me off. The Marxist Democrats will vote themselves total power any day of the week, all the while hiding behind the lie that they are "in it for the little guy". City after city has been under Democrat rule for decades, and they are all in decline. They have helped the little guy just enough to teach him to sit on his ass long enough to receive his handout. You people across the pond....if you haven't lived here then you don't get it. If you do live here, then you should. There is no excuse for the poverty we have, and don't spout off about education. I should be proof that any man willing to get off his fat ass can be productive and profitable. I do not envy people with more money. I work smarter and harder to earn some more. If I lost everything today I'd be first in line for any job tomorrow. I would do anything to support my family. I would not look to my president for help. I would not cry about it not being fair. I am entitled to nothing, except for the fruits of my labor!
James, Tim, Litebeer...do some research on what percentage entitlements are on the US Budget.
I'm all about helping those who can't help themselves. I give regularly to those charities. But in this land where there is more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, the entitlements are staggering and disgusting. It should be up to you, and only you, what income class you're in. I would say sorry about the rant, but I'm not. Quit ****ing with my USA!

ITN, it's all foggy yucky and cold here. I'm grumpy. How do you deal with it??


There is no 'class' of income. Class warfare is an invention of Marxism. Rich or poor, those that work to make an honest wage are the same. If they can draw a better wage because what they produce is worth more to somebody, so be it.

Heh. What we do in the Pacific Northwest during winter is rarely bother to look outside. It's kind of like living in a submarine.

Look at what our area is good at: largely software and aircraft production...both INDOOR activities.

When the Sun DOES come out around here, everyone mysteriously develops some reason not to come in to work! The place is spectacularly gorgeous when the Sun does come out at last. It is those visions we keep in our heads during the crummy days.

I will acknowledge that depression is a big problem around here. It seems to affect the newcomers the most. I originally hail from Idaho. I moved into the area in 1961. I am STILL not used to the weather. That's far less of a problem around here than the liberalism is though.


The Parrot Killer
19-02-2018 20:45
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5875)
James___ wrote:
The U.S. has a National Debt of over $20 Trillion. It's GDP (Gross Domestic Product) was $18.57 Trillion in 2016. The budget deficit is expect to top $1 Trillion in 2019.

Yup. It's a real problem.
James___ wrote:
I'm not sure how Americans can support such fiscal irresponsibility.

The government of the United States can't.

The people of the United States are not the government of the United States. The people of the United States have far greater assets than the government does.

If the United States government can't get it's act together fiscally, it will fall, and the dollar goes with it. There is no alternative. I do not look forward to that ugly day.

The federal government MUST return to the Constitution that created it, or die. MOST of what the federal government spends money on is beyond the authority of the Constitution of the United States.

The Constitution never authorized welfare social programs.

The Constitution never authorized the seizure of productive members of society to give to unproductive members of society.

The Constitution never authorized the power to regulate prices, including the price of money itself (such as the Federal Reserve does).

The Constitution never authorized the federal government to run roughshod over the individual States and their sovereign powers.

The Constitution never authorized the power to declare what a harmful substance was, and to restrict it from the marketplace.

The Constitution never authorized the power to regulate or limit guns or any other personal weapon.

The Constitution never authorized the use of government funding for mass murder (otherwise known as abortion clinics).

The Constitution never authorized the power to control major sections of our economy like agriculture, health care, railways, etc. through the use of oligarchies.

The federal government has NONE of these power constitutionally authorized. They SEIZED power by usurping it from the States and from the people.

Now, people are dependent on government welfare. Look at the wail and cry of farmers because of 'cuts' to the Dept of Agriculture (which are cuts at all). These farmers are welfare cases. They are totally dependent on government funding for running their farms.

Socialism can only survive by stealing from productive people. When it runs out of money and resources to steal from, it falls.

Oligarchies are essentially fascism...a form of socialism. That's why they are NOT AUTHORIZED by the Constitution of the United States.

Using the Supreme Court in their bid to gain power?

The Supreme Court MUST operate UNDER the Constitution. It does not have power OVER it. It is just as guilty as any other branch of government for the mess we're in, perhaps more so.


The Parrot Killer
19-02-2018 22:26
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebarf steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rootin'(& rottin') racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: The Constitution never authorized the seizure of productive members of society to give to unproductive members of society.
I agree. Rich people who positioned themselves to skim off their unfair share, must return wealth to scientists, technicians, blue collars, secretaries, & min. wage earners, who worked to build the wealth of companies.
19-02-2018 23:24
James___
★★★☆☆
(736)
GasGuzzler wrote:
In the US, the poor would like to be middle class. The middle class would like to be rich. And the rich would like to be Warren Buffett. So who should decide what your income is? The federal f ing government?? That is just fine if you think the gov should be involved in class equalization. I have no problem with that. There are many failing countries around the world that operate that way, with an all powerful central gov. Go live in one of them. The US is not one of those places. The US was the "great experiment" that showed the world what personal freedom could produce. The libs would like to destroy that freedom and put the power back to the gov. It pisses me off. The Marxist Democrats will vote themselves total power any day of the week, all the while hiding behind the lie that they are "in it for the little guy". City after city has been under Democrat rule for decades, and they are all in decline. They have helped the little guy just enough to teach him to sit on his ass long enough to receive his handout. You people across the pond....if you haven't lived here then you don't get it. If you do live here, then you should. There is no excuse for the poverty we have, and don't spout off about education. I should be proof that any man willing to get off his fat ass can be productive and profitable. I do not envy people with more money. I work smarter and harder to earn some more. If I lost everything today I'd be first in line for any job tomorrow. I would do anything to support my family. I would not look to my president for help. I would not cry about it not being fair. I am entitled to nothing, except for the fruits of my labor!
James, Tim, Litebeer...do some research on what percentage entitlements are on the US Budget.
I'm all about helping those who can't help themselves. I give regularly to those charities. But in this land where there is more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, the entitlements are staggering and disgusting. It should be up to you, and only you, what income class you're in. I would say sorry about the rant, but I'm not. Quit ****ing with my USA!

ITN, it's all foggy yucky and cold here. I'm grumpy. How do you deal with it??


We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
20-02-2018 00:20
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5875)
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebarf steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rootin'(& rottin') racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: The Constitution never authorized the seizure of productive members of society to give to unproductive members of society.
I agree. Rich people who positioned themselves to skim off their unfair share, must return wealth to scientists, technicians, blue collars, secretaries, & min. wage earners, who worked to build the wealth of companies.

And what authorizes the United States to take from the wealthy for redistribution in this way?

NOTHING.


The Parrot Killer
20-02-2018 05:37
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebarf steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rootin'(& rottin') racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed...what authorizes the United States to take from the wealthy for redistribution in this way?
Nothing dictates that rich "orderers" should earn 3500 times more than poor workers, who often are "ordered" to worker harder, longer & at greater physical risk than rich "orderers".
The "Eyes of Heaven" understand the poor & how the rich caste the poor in poorness. All the rich have to do (& they don't) is distribute wealth equitably. The name of "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebarf steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rootin'(& rottin') racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" guarantees it doesn't understand that sub-survival wages is NOT in the definition of equitable distribution.
Edited on 20-02-2018 05:52
20-02-2018 05:41
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1047)
litesong wrote:
[b]Into the Night wrote:...what authorizes the United States to take from the wealthy for redistribution in this way?
Nothing dictates that rich "orderers" should earn 3500 times more than poor workers, who often are "ordered" to worker harder, longer & at greater physical risk than rich "orderers". The "Eyes of Heaven" understand the poor & how the rich caste the poor in poorness.


Hey dumbass, that's the beauty of the country you live in. No one is forced to take orders from anyone (within the law). If you don't love it you are free to leave it....job or country.
Edited on 20-02-2018 05:42
20-02-2018 06:00
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1047)
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebarf steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rootin'(& rottin') racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: The Constitution never authorized the seizure of productive members of society to give to unproductive members of society.
I agree. Rich people who positioned themselves to skim off their unfair share, must return wealth to scientists, technicians, blue collars, secretaries, & min. wage earners, who worked to build the wealth of companies.


Tell us Litebeer, how do you start a company? If it's so easy, why haven't you done it already?

I know you'd be a great CEO. Tell us how a corporation should be run.

I know when I started my business, it was 18-20 hours day, 7 days a week. That first summer I worked 65 days straight, without a day off, sunup till sundown, then 6-8 hrs in my office every night. I took 1 day off for my daughter"s wedding, then back on the road for another 3 weeks. Made many pots of coffee at 11 pm to get me through till 2-3 AM. 122 nights away from my family in hotels in the first year.

Now, that was a miserable sacrifice to get this thing started. Surely I must have done something wrong.

Hey ITN! I bet you started your business with 158 employees on day 1 making you thousands of $ every day while you drank beer on the beach. How the hell did you do it?
Edited on 20-02-2018 06:01
20-02-2018 06:06
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebarf steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rootin'(& rottin') racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner & many time(plus 1) threatener gazzzed & guzzzlin" gushed: Hey dumbass...
The name of "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebarf steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rootin'(& rottin') racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner & many time(plus 1) threatener gazzzed & guzzzlin" also doesn't know, that The "Eyes of Heaven" understand the poor, how the rich caste the poor in poorness & sub-survival wages are NOT in the definition of equitable distribution.
20-02-2018 06:14
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1047)
Again you run from the the question. How should a corporation be run? More specifically, how show pay be distributed between the top and bottom? Why don't you start your own business and operate the way you think it should be and leave everyone else to their own business. If you're right, you'll run the competition out of town and everyone will work for you. Why do you take no action except to cry about fairness on the internet? What's not fair is people like you taking money from people like me.
Edited on 20-02-2018 06:16
20-02-2018 10:11
Tim the plumber
★★★★☆
(1250)
GasGuzzler wrote:
In the US, the poor would like to be middle class. The middle class would like to be rich. And the rich would like to be Warren Buffett. So who should decide what your income is? The federal f ing government?? That is just fine if you think the gov should be involved in class equalization. I have no problem with that. There are many failing countries around the world that operate that way, with an all powerful central gov. Go live in one of them. The US is not one of those places. The US was the "great experiment" that showed the world what personal freedom could produce. The libs would like to destroy that freedom and put the power back to the gov. It pisses me off. The Marxist Democrats will vote themselves total power any day of the week, all the while hiding behind the lie that they are "in it for the little guy". City after city has been under Democrat rule for decades, and they are all in decline. They have helped the little guy just enough to teach him to sit on his ass long enough to receive his handout. You people across the pond....if you haven't lived here then you don't get it. If you do live here, then you should. There is no excuse for the poverty we have, and don't spout off about education. I should be proof that any man willing to get off his fat ass can be productive and profitable. I do not envy people with more money. I work smarter and harder to earn some more. If I lost everything today I'd be first in line for any job tomorrow. I would do anything to support my family. I would not look to my president for help. I would not cry about it not being fair. I am entitled to nothing, except for the fruits of my labor!
James, Tim, Litebeer...do some research on what percentage entitlements are on the US Budget.
I'm all about helping those who can't help themselves. I give regularly to those charities. But in this land where there is more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, the entitlements are staggering and disgusting. It should be up to you, and only you, what income class you're in. I would say sorry about the rant, but I'm not. Quit ****ing with my USA!

ITN, it's all foggy yucky and cold here. I'm grumpy. How do you deal with it??


I am not disparaging the US.

I see it with an outsiders view point.

I only coment here on the global warming thing mostly.

The point of my not liking open borders for labour is that it causes the poor to need to shift about chasing the capital. Money should chase the workers.

Detroit has lost half it's population since 1980 or so. That's OK in the USA but if Portugal lost the same it is a social problem.

Making it OK for labour to move from Nigeria to Europe means that the industry they chase has no incentive to go to Nigeria. If the workers can't come to the factory the factory will have to go to them. That would result in the economic and social development of Africa.
20-02-2018 13:44
James___
★★★☆☆
(736)
Tim the plumber wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
In the US, the poor would like to be middle class. The middle class would like to be rich. And the rich would like to be Warren Buffett. So who should decide what your income is? The federal f ing government?? That is just fine if you think the gov should be involved in class equalization. I have no problem with that. There are many failing countries around the world that operate that way, with an all powerful central gov. Go live in one of them. The US is not one of those places. The US was the "great experiment" that showed the world what personal freedom could produce. The libs would like to destroy that freedom and put the power back to the gov. It pisses me off. The Marxist Democrats will vote themselves total power any day of the week, all the while hiding behind the lie that they are "in it for the little guy". City after city has been under Democrat rule for decades, and they are all in decline. They have helped the little guy just enough to teach him to sit on his ass long enough to receive his handout. You people across the pond....if you haven't lived here then you don't get it. If you do live here, then you should. There is no excuse for the poverty we have, and don't spout off about education. I should be proof that any man willing to get off his fat ass can be productive and profitable. I do not envy people with more money. I work smarter and harder to earn some more. If I lost everything today I'd be first in line for any job tomorrow. I would do anything to support my family. I would not look to my president for help. I would not cry about it not being fair. I am entitled to nothing, except for the fruits of my labor!
James, Tim, Litebeer...do some research on what percentage entitlements are on the US Budget.
I'm all about helping those who can't help themselves. I give regularly to those charities. But in this land where there is more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, the entitlements are staggering and disgusting. It should be up to you, and only you, what income class you're in. I would say sorry about the rant, but I'm not. Quit ****ing with my USA!

ITN, it's all foggy yucky and cold here. I'm grumpy. How do you deal with it??


I am not disparaging the US.

I see it with an outsiders view point.

I only coment here on the global warming thing mostly.

The point of my not liking open borders for labour is that it causes the poor to need to shift about chasing the capital. Money should chase the workers.

Detroit has lost half it's population since 1980 or so. That's OK in the USA but if Portugal lost the same it is a social problem.

Making it OK for labour to move from Nigeria to Europe means that the industry they chase has no incentive to go to Nigeria. If the workers can't come to the factory the factory will have to go to them. That would result in the economic and social development of Africa.


That kind of helps to explain America's Trade Deficit, Budget Deficit, etc. Send too many jobs to countries with cheap labor then the bills at home can't be paid.

@GasGuzzler,
What kind of business do you own ? I have known people who had their own business, it didn't mean they knew how to run a government. Those are 2 different things. IMO Trump is showing that. He demands loyalty to him. And the expression the press uses is "White House in Turmoil". Have you bought a Trump Bear yet ?
20-02-2018 13:50
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1047)
Tim the plumber wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
In the US, the poor would like to be middle class. The middle class would like to be rich. And the rich would like to be Warren Buffett. So who should decide what your income is? The federal f ing government?? That is just fine if you think the gov should be involved in class equalization. I have no problem with that. There are many failing countries around the world that operate that way, with an all powerful central gov. Go live in one of them. The US is not one of those places. The US was the "great experiment" that showed the world what personal freedom could produce. The libs would like to destroy that freedom and put the power back to the gov. It pisses me off. The Marxist Democrats will vote themselves total power any day of the week, all the while hiding behind the lie that they are "in it for the little guy". City after city has been under Democrat rule for decades, and they are all in decline. They have helped the little guy just enough to teach him to sit on his ass long enough to receive his handout. You people across the pond....if you haven't lived here then you don't get it. If you do live here, then you should. There is no excuse for the poverty we have, and don't spout off about education. I should be proof that any man willing to get off his fat ass can be productive and profitable. I do not envy people with more money. I work smarter and harder to earn some more. If I lost everything today I'd be first in line for any job tomorrow. I would do anything to support my family. I would not look to my president for help. I would not cry about it not being fair. I am entitled to nothing, except for the fruits of my labor!
James, Tim, Litebeer...do some research on what percentage entitlements are on the US Budget.
I'm all about helping those who can't help themselves. I give regularly to those charities. But in this land where there is more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, the entitlements are staggering and disgusting. It should be up to you, and only you, what income class you're in. I would say sorry about the rant, but I'm not. Quit ****ing with my USA!

ITN, it's all foggy yucky and cold here. I'm grumpy. How do you deal with it??


I am not disparaging the US.

I see it with an outsiders view point.

I only coment here on the global warming thing mostly.

The point of my not liking open borders for labour is that it causes the poor to need to shift about chasing the capital. Money should chase the workers.

Detroit has lost half it's population since 1980 or so. That's OK in the USA but if Portugal lost the same it is a social problem.

Making it OK for labour to move from Nigeria to Europe means that the industry they chase has no incentive to go to Nigeria. If the workers can't come to the factory the factory will have to go to them. That would result in the economic and social development of Africa.


Tim, I may not agree but I always welcome an outsiders point of view.

Detroit is a great example. Used to be motor city, making and assembling a huge percentage of American cars and trucks. For years the union was a good thing, looking out for worker safety and decent wages. But like any other organization, they needed to justify their existence....and budget. Funded by union dues and the Democrat party, they decided that a good working man with no education needs to make $80,000 a year, 16 ways with instruction manuals on how to file a grievance against the company, full pension plan, full health care, 8 weeks paid vacation, 7 sick days, and 5 personal days. The unions drove a wedge between employer and employee. The auto makers finally came to a point where they could not stay in business if they didn't find cheaper labor somewhere else.

So what is business supposed to do? Fold up or send some operations to Mexico.(or anywhere) That's the 2 choices. At least if they find a way to stay open, Mexico gets some economic growth and the Unions get what they deserve. Nothing.

And we haven't even talked about corporate taxes.
With the one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, business has fled this country like the plague. Thank you Democrat party, (as they stand up and scream that all the jobs have gone overseas.)
Trump is doing some great things making the US business friendly again. Yes Litebeer, I know. There will be some rich people. Deal with it. There with also be millions more with good jobs to feed their families. These workers will also pay billions in new tax revenue that will help pay for that great health care of yours.

Tim, your line about "money needs to chase workers". Sure, I agree. In a perfect world where everyone that wants a great job has one and there is no poverty anywhere. I don't believe this has ever happened in the history of the world. Has it?
20-02-2018 14:18
James___
★★★☆☆
(736)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
In the US, the poor would like to be middle class. The middle class would like to be rich. And the rich would like to be Warren Buffett. So who should decide what your income is? The federal f ing government?? That is just fine if you think the gov should be involved in class equalization. I have no problem with that. There are many failing countries around the world that operate that way, with an all powerful central gov. Go live in one of them. The US is not one of those places. The US was the "great experiment" that showed the world what personal freedom could produce. The libs would like to destroy that freedom and put the power back to the gov. It pisses me off. The Marxist Democrats will vote themselves total power any day of the week, all the while hiding behind the lie that they are "in it for the little guy". City after city has been under Democrat rule for decades, and they are all in decline. They have helped the little guy just enough to teach him to sit on his ass long enough to receive his handout. You people across the pond....if you haven't lived here then you don't get it. If you do live here, then you should. There is no excuse for the poverty we have, and don't spout off about education. I should be proof that any man willing to get off his fat ass can be productive and profitable. I do not envy people with more money. I work smarter and harder to earn some more. If I lost everything today I'd be first in line for any job tomorrow. I would do anything to support my family. I would not look to my president for help. I would not cry about it not being fair. I am entitled to nothing, except for the fruits of my labor!
James, Tim, Litebeer...do some research on what percentage entitlements are on the US Budget.
I'm all about helping those who can't help themselves. I give regularly to those charities. But in this land where there is more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, the entitlements are staggering and disgusting. It should be up to you, and only you, what income class you're in. I would say sorry about the rant, but I'm not. Quit ****ing with my USA!

ITN, it's all foggy yucky and cold here. I'm grumpy. How do you deal with it??


I am not disparaging the US.

I see it with an outsiders view point.

I only coment here on the global warming thing mostly.

The point of my not liking open borders for labour is that it causes the poor to need to shift about chasing the capital. Money should chase the workers.

Detroit has lost half it's population since 1980 or so. That's OK in the USA but if Portugal lost the same it is a social problem.

Making it OK for labour to move from Nigeria to Europe means that the industry they chase has no incentive to go to Nigeria. If the workers can't come to the factory the factory will have to go to them. That would result in the economic and social development of Africa.


Tim, I may not agree but I always welcome an outsiders point of view.

Detroit is a great example. Used to be motor city, making and assembling a huge percentage of American cars and trucks. For years the union was a good thing, looking out for worker safety and decent wages. But like any other organization, they needed to justify their existence....and budget. Funded by union dues and the Democrat party, they decided that a good working man with no education needs to make $80,000 a year, 16 ways with instruction manuals on how to file a grievance against the company, full pension plan, full health care, 8 weeks paid vacation, 7 sick days, and 5 personal days. The unions drove a wedge between employer and employee. The auto makers finally came to a point where they could not stay in business if they didn't find cheaper labor somewhere else.

So what is business supposed to do? Fold up or send some operations to Mexico.(or anywhere) That's the 2 choices. At least if they find a way to stay open, Mexico gets some economic growth and the Unions get what they deserve. Nothing.

And we haven't even talked about corporate taxes.
With the one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, business has fled this country like the plague. Thank you Democrat party, (as they stand up and scream that all the jobs have gone overseas.)
Trump is doing some great things making the US business friendly again. Yes Litebeer, I know. There will be some rich people. Deal with it. There with also be millions more with good jobs to feed their families. These workers will also pay billions in new tax revenue that will help pay for that great health care of yours.

Tim, your line about "money needs to chase workers". Sure, I agree. In a perfect world where everyone that wants a great job has one and there is no poverty anywhere. I don't believe this has ever happened in the history of the world. Has it?



Gasguzzler,
Really ? You need to learn more about other countries. Many countries in Europe have a high unemployment rate. They also have a lower standard of living. Yet somehow you say the U.S. had gotten it wrong and that you are patriotic.
20-02-2018 14:21
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1047)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Tim the plumber wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
In the US, the poor would like to be middle class. The middle class would like to be rich. And the rich would like to be Warren Buffett. So who should decide what your income is? The federal f ing government?? That is just fine if you think the gov should be involved in class equalization. I have no problem with that. There are many failing countries around the world that operate that way, with an all powerful central gov. Go live in one of them. The US is not one of those places. The US was the "great experiment" that showed the world what personal freedom could produce. The libs would like to destroy that freedom and put the power back to the gov. It pisses me off. The Marxist Democrats will vote themselves total power any day of the week, all the while hiding behind the lie that they are "in it for the little guy". City after city has been under Democrat rule for decades, and they are all in decline. They have helped the little guy just enough to teach him to sit on his ass long enough to receive his handout. You people across the pond....if you haven't lived here then you don't get it. If you do live here, then you should. There is no excuse for the poverty we have, and don't spout off about education. I should be proof that any man willing to get off his fat ass can be productive and profitable. I do not envy people with more money. I work smarter and harder to earn some more. If I lost everything today I'd be first in line for any job tomorrow. I would do anything to support my family. I would not look to my president for help. I would not cry about it not being fair. I am entitled to nothing, except for the fruits of my labor!
James, Tim, Litebeer...do some research on what percentage entitlements are on the US Budget.
I'm all about helping those who can't help themselves. I give regularly to those charities. But in this land where there is more opportunity than anywhere else in the world, the entitlements are staggering and disgusting. It should be up to you, and only you, what income class you're in. I would say sorry about the rant, but I'm not. Quit ****ing with my USA!

ITN, it's all foggy yucky and cold here. I'm grumpy. How do you deal with it??


I am not disparaging the US.

I see it with an outsiders view point.

I only coment here on the global warming thing mostly.

The point of my not liking open borders for labour is that it causes the poor to need to shift about chasing the capital. Money should chase the workers.

Detroit has lost half it's population since 1980 or so. That's OK in the USA but if Portugal lost the same it is a social problem.

Making it OK for labour to move from Nigeria to Europe means that the industry they chase has no incentive to go to Nigeria. If the workers can't come to the factory the factory will have to go to them. That would result in the economic and social development of Africa.


Tim, I may not agree but I always welcome an outsiders point of view.

Detroit is a great example. Used to be motor city, making and assembling a huge percentage of American cars and trucks. For years the union was a good thing, looking out for worker safety and decent wages. But like any other organization, they needed to justify their existence....and budget. Funded by union dues and the Democrat party, they decided that a good working man with no education needs to make $80,000 a year, 16 ways with instruction manuals on how to file a grievance against the company, full pension plan, full health care, 8 weeks paid vacation, 7 sick days, and 5 personal days. The unions drove a wedge between employer and employee. The auto makers finally came to a point where they could not stay in business if they didn't find cheaper labor somewhere else.

So what is business supposed to do? Fold up or send some operations to Mexico.(or anywhere) That's the 2 choices. At least if they find a way to stay open, Mexico gets some economic growth and the Unions get what they deserve. Nothing.

And we haven't even talked about corporate taxes.
With the one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, business has fled this country like the plague. Thank you Democrat party, (as they stand up and scream that all the jobs have gone overseas.)
Trump is doing some great things making the US business friendly again. Yes Litebeer, I know. There will be some rich people. Deal with it. There with also be millions more with good jobs to feed their families. These workers will also pay billions in new tax revenue that will help pay for that great health care of yours.

Tim, your line about "money needs to chase workers". Sure, I agree. In a perfect world where everyone that wants a great job has one and there is no poverty anywhere. I don't believe this has ever happened in the history of the world. Has it?



Gasguzzler,
Really ? You need to learn more about other countries. Many countries in Europe have a high unemployment rate. They also have a lower standard of living. Yet somehow you say the U.S. had gotten it wrong and that you are patriotic.


If there's high unemployment and a lower standard of living, I guess the dollars aren't chasing the workers now, are they?

Edited on 20-02-2018 14:23
20-02-2018 14:40
James___
★★★☆☆
(736)
GasGuzzler wrote:



Tim, I may not agree but I always welcome an outsiders point of view.

Detroit is a great example. Used to be motor city, making and assembling a huge percentage of American cars and trucks. For years the union was a good thing, looking out for worker safety and decent wages. But like any other organization, they needed to justify their existence....and budget. Funded by union dues and the Democrat party, they decided that a good working man with no education needs to make $80,000 a year, 16 ways with instruction manuals on how to file a grievance against the company, full pension plan, full health care, 8 weeks paid vacation, 7 sick days, and 5 personal days. The unions drove a wedge between employer and employee. The auto makers finally came to a point where they could not stay in business if they didn't find cheaper labor somewhere else.

So what is business supposed to do? Fold up or send some operations to Mexico.(or anywhere) That's the 2 choices. At least if they find a way to stay open, Mexico gets some economic growth and the Unions get what they deserve. Nothing.

And we haven't even talked about corporate taxes.
With the one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, business has fled this country like the plague. Thank you Democrat party, (as they stand up and scream that all the jobs have gone overseas.)
Trump is doing some great things making the US business friendly again. Yes Litebeer, I know. There will be some rich people. Deal with it. There with also be millions more with good jobs to feed their families. These workers will also pay billions in new tax revenue that will help pay for that great health care of yours.

Tim, your line about "money needs to chase workers". Sure, I agree. In a perfect world where everyone that wants a great job has one and there is no poverty anywhere. I don't believe this has ever happened in the history of the world. Has it?

James wrote:

Gasguzzler,
Really ? You need to learn more about other countries. Many countries in Europe have a high unemployment rate. They also have a lower standard of living. Yet somehow you say the U.S. had gotten it wrong and that you are patriotic.


GasGuzzler wrote:
If there's high unemployment and a lower standard of living, I guess the dollars aren't chasing the workers now, are they?


Maybe the $$ are just chasing the wrong workers. You still haven't explained how the U.S. is going to pay off it's $19.5 Trillion National Debt. Taxes are the only form of revenue the federal government has. Under President Trump it it expected to keep increasing at a significant rate because of the tax breaks he gave to the wealthy.
Please explain why you support his decisions.
Edited on 20-02-2018 15:06
20-02-2018 17:15
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1047)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:



Tim, I may not agree but I always welcome an outsiders point of view.

Detroit is a great example. Used to be motor city, making and assembling a huge percentage of American cars and trucks. For years the union was a good thing, looking out for worker safety and decent wages. But like any other organization, they needed to justify their existence....and budget. Funded by union dues and the Democrat party, they decided that a good working man with no education needs to make $80,000 a year, 16 ways with instruction manuals on how to file a grievance against the company, full pension plan, full health care, 8 weeks paid vacation, 7 sick days, and 5 personal days. The unions drove a wedge between employer and employee. The auto makers finally came to a point where they could not stay in business if they didn't find cheaper labor somewhere else.

So what is business supposed to do? Fold up or send some operations to Mexico.(or anywhere) That's the 2 choices. At least if they find a way to stay open, Mexico gets some economic growth and the Unions get what they deserve. Nothing.

And we haven't even talked about corporate taxes.
With the one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, business has fled this country like the plague. Thank you Democrat party, (as they stand up and scream that all the jobs have gone overseas.)
Trump is doing some great things making the US business friendly again. Yes Litebeer, I know. There will be some rich people. Deal with it. There with also be millions more with good jobs to feed their families. These workers will also pay billions in new tax revenue that will help pay for that great health care of yours.

Tim, your line about "money needs to chase workers". Sure, I agree. In a perfect world where everyone that wants a great job has one and there is no poverty anywhere. I don't believe this has ever happened in the history of the world. Has it?

James wrote:

Gasguzzler,
Really ? You need to learn more about other countries. Many countries in Europe have a high unemployment rate. They also have a lower standard of living. Yet somehow you say the U.S. had gotten it wrong and that you are patriotic.


GasGuzzler wrote:
If there's high unemployment and a lower standard of living, I guess the dollars aren't chasing the workers now, are they?


Maybe the $$ are just chasing the wrong workers. You still haven't explained how the U.S. is going to pay off it's $19.5 Trillion National Debt. Taxes are the only form of revenue the federal government has. Under President Trump it it expected to keep increasing at a significant rate because of the tax breaks he gave to the wealthy.
Please explain why you support his decisions.


James___ wrote:
[quote]GasGuzzler wrote:



Tim, I may not agree but I always welcome an outsiders point of view.

Detroit is a great example. Used to be motor city, making and assembling a huge percentage of American cars and trucks. For years the union was a good thing, looking out for worker safety and decent wages. But like any other organization, they needed to justify their existence....and budget. Funded by union dues and the Democrat party, they decided that a good working man with no education needs to make $80,000 a year, 16 ways with instruction manuals on how to file a grievance against the company, full pension plan, full health care, 8 weeks paid vacation, 7 sick days, and 5 personal days. The unions drove a wedge between employer and employee. The auto makers finally came to a point where they could not stay in business if they didn't find cheaper labor somewhere else.

So what is business supposed to do? Fold up or send some operations to Mexico.(or anywhere) That's the 2 choices. At least if they find a way to stay open, Mexico gets some economic growth and the Unions get what they deserve. Nothing.

And we haven't even talked about corporate taxes.
With the one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, business has fled this country like the plague. Thank you Democrat party, (as they stand up and scream that all the jobs have gone overseas.)
Trump is doing some great things making the US business friendly again. Yes Litebeer, I know. There will be some rich people. Deal with it. There with also be millions more with good jobs to feed their families. These workers will also pay billions in new tax revenue that will help pay for that great health care of yours.

Tim, your line about "money needs to chase workers". Sure, I agree. In a perfect world where everyone that wants a great job has one and there is no poverty anywhere. I don't believe this has ever happened in the history of the world. Has it?

James wrote:

[quote] Maybe the $$ are just chasing the wrong workers.

Who are the :right" workers? Seems a business owner should decide who the right workers are for his/her products or service.
You still haven't explained how the U.S. is going to pay off it's $19.5 Trillion National Debt.

They never will if we don't get some fiscal responsibility in Washington. There are a few ways to attack it. Grow your way out. Pay your way out. Growth and pay on it. No one in Washington is interested in tackling this issue. It isn't fun and giveaways get more votes.
However, I do find it odd that you of all people would be concerned with the national debt. Don't forget it was Obama that spent more money than all his predecessors combined. As far as debt to GDP I think Obama is only second to Truman. You are the big proponent of a single payer health care system. How can you be for that mountain of spending but also be for fiscal responsibility? Please explain.
Taxes are the only form of revenue the federal government has.

True. And it is fragile at best right now as more and more Americans are waking up to the fact that they are paying 50+ percent of there income to taxes. Federal, state, local option taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, and all the hidden ones you don't even know about like special phone and credit card taxes. It's insane. Sooner than later people will revolt. I'm in.
Under President Trump it it expected to keep increasing at a significant rate

Expected by who? Are you another Litebeer CNN junkie?
because of the tax breaks he gave to the wealthy.

Everyone gets a tax bill reduction.
Please explain why you support his decisions.

If Trump knows one thing it is what environments are good for business. He is working to get businesses to bring labor back to American soil. Even if the corporation paid 0 taxes (which they won't), you still have millions of people employed. This means 2 important things. Employees are now paying taxes, and these same people are now supporting themselves instead of taking from and being a drag on the system. (welfare entitlement) You have to make business salivate at the thought of doing business in the United States.
20-02-2018 17:28
Into the Night
★★★★★
(5875)
James___ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:



Tim, I may not agree but I always welcome an outsiders point of view.

Detroit is a great example. Used to be motor city, making and assembling a huge percentage of American cars and trucks. For years the union was a good thing, looking out for worker safety and decent wages. But like any other organization, they needed to justify their existence....and budget. Funded by union dues and the Democrat party, they decided that a good working man with no education needs to make $80,000 a year, 16 ways with instruction manuals on how to file a grievance against the company, full pension plan, full health care, 8 weeks paid vacation, 7 sick days, and 5 personal days. The unions drove a wedge between employer and employee. The auto makers finally came to a point where they could not stay in business if they didn't find cheaper labor somewhere else.

So what is business supposed to do? Fold up or send some operations to Mexico.(or anywhere) That's the 2 choices. At least if they find a way to stay open, Mexico gets some economic growth and the Unions get what they deserve. Nothing.

And we haven't even talked about corporate taxes.
With the one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, business has fled this country like the plague. Thank you Democrat party, (as they stand up and scream that all the jobs have gone overseas.)
Trump is doing some great things making the US business friendly again. Yes Litebeer, I know. There will be some rich people. Deal with it. There with also be millions more with good jobs to feed their families. These workers will also pay billions in new tax revenue that will help pay for that great health care of yours.

Tim, your line about "money needs to chase workers". Sure, I agree. In a perfect world where everyone that wants a great job has one and there is no poverty anywhere. I don't believe this has ever happened in the history of the world. Has it?

James wrote:

Gasguzzler,
Really ? You need to learn more about other countries. Many countries in Europe have a high unemployment rate. They also have a lower standard of living. Yet somehow you say the U.S. had gotten it wrong and that you are patriotic.


GasGuzzler wrote:
If there's high unemployment and a lower standard of living, I guess the dollars aren't chasing the workers now, are they?


Maybe the $$ are just chasing the wrong workers. You still haven't explained how the U.S. is going to pay off it's $19.5 Trillion National Debt. Taxes are the only form of revenue the federal government has. Under President Trump it it expected to keep increasing at a significant rate because of the tax breaks he gave to the wealthy.
Please explain why you support his decisions.


The debt held by the UK is currently 89% of it's GDP. That's pretty bad for a nation as small as the UK.

The debt held by the United States federal government was never above 74% of GDP since Eisenhower. Much of that time it was considerably less (as low as 34% of GDP, as the costs of WW2 were paid down). When Obama took office the national debt was 63% of GDP. During his time in office the debt skyrocketed to 106.1% GDP! Thank you Democrats!

In Trump's first year in office, the debt has FALLEN to 102% of GDP...the right direction, but still a long ways to go.

The tax law changes are not breaks only for the wealthy. ALL will benefit from lower taxes, if they are paying taxes at all (the poor don't pay income taxes here).

When you combine the UK's personal income tax rate of 45% and their sales tax rate of 20% (plus the employees share of social security tax rate of 12%), each individual in the UK is facing some pretty stiff taxation from the government. That is money that COULD have been used to start or expand businesses.

Do you have ANY idea what you are paying in taxes??

Meanwhile, in the United States, the average citizen faces a federal income tax rate of 15.2%. The corporate tax rate has recently been reduced to 20% (the UK's corporate rate is 19%). We do not have a national sales tax. The employee's share of social security taxes is 6.2%.

With lower taxes, Trump has REDUCED the national debt (as a percentage of GDP).

People can keep that money and invest it in new and expanding business.

A far better outcome than what Obama did to our debt. He took it from 65% of GDP to a high of 106% of GDP.

Later we can talk about the Federal Reserve, and how the Democrats created it, and manipulated it and other laws involving price controls to cause the crash of 2000 and again in 2008. Before the Fed, interest rates (the price of money) were a free market. (Oh, it caused the Great Depression also!) It's what made the Great Depression great.

Price controls NEVER WORK. They always cause shortages. In the case of the Fed, it causes shortages of money itself...and the resulting crashes because of the price controls it imposes on money.

When the next crash comes (it's already beginning to set up), you folks in the UK are FAR less able to weather it than us here in the United States, thanks to your high taxes. Your banks are tied to ours in numerous ways. A crash here means a crash there, and all across Europe as well.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 20-02-2018 17:32
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