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Market trends now favor renewable energy as a cost-effective alternative to fossil fuels - Nov 2017


Market trends now favor renewable energy as a cost-effective alternative to fossil fuels - Nov 201726-11-2017 11:45
moncktonProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(212)
...With petrochemical billionaires Charles and David Koch paying many of the GOP's bills these days, it's no wonder conservative policymakers are pushing hard to protect dirty fossil fuels against competition from clean, renewable energy. But entrepreneurial capitalists whom conservatives claim to worship are fighting back, slashing costs for wind and solar power to the point where few customers can refuse them...

...A remarkable new study by Lazard, the venerable New York investment house, concludes that the unsubsidized cost of energy from new wind and solar plants now falls decisively below that of nuclear and coal plants, and even below that of efficient natural-gas-fired generation...

...Even more disruptive is Lazard's finding that "in some scenarios the full-lifecycle costs of building and operating renewables-based projects have dropped below the operating costs alone of conventional generation technologies such as coal or nuclear." In other words, it's often cheaper to shut down those older plants and replace them with new wind and solar projects...


https://consortiumnews.com/2017/11/24/trump-resists-progress-on-global-warming/

Well, all I can hear is nails and coffins.
26-11-2017 21:30
Into the Night
★★★★★
(4531)
...and now a few more cut and paste thefts of the arguments of others who aren't here...
monckton wrote:

...With petrochemical billionaires Charles and David Koch paying many of the GOP's bills
these days,

They aren't, except for the taxes they pay, like everybody else that has any money.
monckton wrote:
it's no wonder conservative policymakers are pushing hard to protect dirty fossil fuels

Fossils don't burn. We don't use them for fuel.
monckton wrote:
against competition from clean, renewable energy.

...such as...?

This idea of 'clean' and 'unclean' fuel is ridiculous. It is an invention of the Church of Global Warming.

monckton wrote:
But entrepreneurial capitalists whom conservatives claim to worship are fighting back, slashing costs for wind and solar power to the point where few customers can refuse them...

The cost of wind and solar has been dropping, true. It is nowhere near the low costs of other energy sources.
monckton wrote:
...A remarkable new study by Lazard, the venerable New York investment house, concludes that the unsubsidized cost of energy from new wind and solar plants now falls decisively below that of nuclear and coal plants, and even below that of efficient natural-gas-fired generation...
Not by cost per watt. Not by a long shot.
[quote]monckton wrote:
...Even more disruptive is Lazard's finding that "in some scenarios the full-lifecycle costs of building and operating renewables-based projects have dropped below the operating costs alone of conventional generation technologies such as coal or nuclear." In other words, it's often cheaper to shut down those older plants and replace them with new wind and solar projects...

...deleted redundant Holy Link...


Here in left coast Washington, we have quite a few wind farms and solar plants. They cover vast stretches of eastern and southern Washington.

ALL of these plants, combined with ALL of the solar plants we have, does not equal the power produced by ONE nuclear plant reactor. Most of our energy produced is by hydroelectric, which produces over ten times ALL of our nuclear reactors on line.

Mobile energy, the kind you have to put in cars to make them run, is different. You can't fit a hydroelectric dam or a nuke in a car. Electric cars are fine, but they are only practical as commuting vehicles in the cities.

monckton wrote:

Well, all I can hear is nails and coffins.

You want to live off the grid and buy into solar power? You are welcome to. You do NOT get to dictate to anyone what kind of power system they will use. You are, however, welcome to join the others in their bunkers here and live on solar power alone.


The Parrot Killer
26-11-2017 21:39
moncktonProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(212)
Into the Night wrote:
You want to live off the grid and buy into solar power? You are welcome to. You do NOT get to dictate to anyone what kind of power system they will use. You are, however, welcome to join the others in their bunkers here and live on solar power alone.


ha ha ha.
From my cold greasy hand eh?

Have you ever considered cutting down on chocolate?

...Never! from my plump sticky hand...
26-11-2017 22:00
Into the Night
★★★★★
(4531)
monckton wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
You want to live off the grid and buy into solar power? You are welcome to. You do NOT get to dictate to anyone what kind of power system they will use. You are, however, welcome to join the others in their bunkers here and live on solar power alone.


ha ha ha.
From my cold greasy hand eh?

Have you ever considered cutting down on chocolate?

...Never! from my plump sticky hand...


?? Non-sequitur.


The Parrot Killer
26-11-2017 22:13
moncktonProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(212)
Have you ever considered reducing your emissions?

... from my cold dead hand......
26-11-2017 23:11
Into the Night
★★★★★
(4531)
monckton wrote:
Have you ever considered reducing your emissions?

... from my cold dead hand......


Why should I? CO2 has no capability to warm the Earth.


The Parrot Killer
27-11-2017 15:30
litesong
★★★★★
(2041)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed:
monckton wrote:Have you ever considered reducing your emissions?
Why should I?
Ah.... "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" ain't downwind of any coal or other fossil fuel electric plant, breathing all the particle, & unburned emissions.... like they get to in poor communities.
30-11-2017 18:44
Wake
★★★★★
(2772)
monckton wrote:
...With petrochemical billionaires Charles and David Koch paying many of the GOP's bills these days, it's no wonder conservative policymakers are pushing hard to protect dirty fossil fuels against competition from clean, renewable energy. But entrepreneurial capitalists whom conservatives claim to worship are fighting back, slashing costs for wind and solar power to the point where few customers can refuse them...

...A remarkable new study by Lazard, the venerable New York investment house, concludes that the unsubsidized cost of energy from new wind and solar plants now falls decisively below that of nuclear and coal plants, and even below that of efficient natural-gas-fired generation...

...Even more disruptive is Lazard's finding that "in some scenarios the full-lifecycle costs of building and operating renewables-based projects have dropped below the operating costs alone of conventional generation technologies such as coal or nuclear." In other words, it's often cheaper to shut down those older plants and replace them with new wind and solar projects...


https://consortiumnews.com/2017/11/24/trump-resists-progress-on-global-warming/

Well, all I can hear is nails and coffins.


What's a real hoot is that George Soros crashed the pound but that's perfectly OK with Spot because he is also working for liberals controlling the Houses of Great Britain.

But the Koch's are somehow paying for the Republicans under the table.
30-11-2017 21:36
Into the Night
★★★★★
(4531)
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed:
monckton wrote:Have you ever considered reducing your emissions?
Why should I?
Ah.... "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" ain't downwind of any coal or other fossil fuel electric plant, breathing all the particle, & unburned emissions.... like they get to in poor communities.


We don't burn fossils for fuel. Fossils don't burn.

Our coal plants are quite clean burning. The soot you imagine coming from them is all a fantasy.


The Parrot Killer
01-12-2017 01:27
litesong
★★★★★
(2041)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: Our coal plants are quite clean burning.
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" ain't downwind of any coal or other fossil fuel electric plant, breathing all the particle, & unburned emissions.... like they get to in poor downwind communities. "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" continues as a mouthpiece for the coal industry, as they pump coal pollution out of their 1000 foot chimneys, in lame efforts not to kill the immediate population quickly.
The Trbovlje Power Station (Slovene: Termoelektrarna Trbovlje) has a 1180(?) foot tall chimney for the lignite-fired power station on the bank of the Sava River near Trbovlje, Slovenia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtFLKmb2w7A
Edited on 01-12-2017 01:51
01-12-2017 01:59
Into the Night
★★★★★
(4531)
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: Our coal plants are quite clean burning.
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" ain't downwind of any coal or other fossil fuel electric plant, breathing all the particle, & unburned emissions.... like they get to in poor downwind communities. "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" continues as a mouthpiece for the coal industry, as they pump coal pollution out of their 1000 foot chimneys, in lame efforts not to kill the immediate population quickly.
The Trbovlje Power Station (Slovene: Termoelektrarna Trbovlje) has a 1180(?) foot tall chimney for the lignite-fired power station on the bank of the Sava River near Trbovlje, Slovenia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtFLKmb2w7A


Gee. No pollution coming from that stack is there? Did you know that Slovenia is not in the United States?


The Parrot Killer
01-12-2017 02:18
Wake
★★★★★
(2772)
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: Our coal plants are quite clean burning.
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" ain't downwind of any coal or other fossil fuel electric plant, breathing all the particle, & unburned emissions.... like they get to in poor downwind communities. "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" continues as a mouthpiece for the coal industry, as they pump coal pollution out of their 1000 foot chimneys, in lame efforts not to kill the immediate population quickly.
The Trbovlje Power Station (Slovene: Termoelektrarna Trbovlje) has a 1180(?) foot tall chimney for the lignite-fired power station on the bank of the Sava River near Trbovlje, Slovenia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtFLKmb2w7A


Funny, I don't see you going over to Slovenia and telling them they have to shut down their power because you think they are polluting.
01-12-2017 05:08
litesong
★★★★★
(2041)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner & many time (plus 1) threatener wake-me-up" wiffed: I don't see you going over to Slovenia and telling them they have to shut down their power because you think they are polluting.
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: No pollution coming from that stack is there? Did you know that Slovenia is not in the United States?
///////
litesong wrote: ...you "its" didn't watch the video. The chimney (the plant, too?) was out of commission & would be liquidated. The dare-devil kids ascended the chimney & walked around the narrow perimeter of the chimney, even juggling apples at one time. The video really is exciting & giddy. But, old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiners only get excited & giddy when they lie.
Edited on 01-12-2017 05:10
01-12-2017 06:03
Into the Night
★★★★★
(4531)
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner & many time (plus 1) threatener wake-me-up" wiffed: I don't see you going over to Slovenia and telling them they have to shut down their power because you think they are polluting.
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: No pollution coming from that stack is there? Did you know that Slovenia is not in the United States?
///////
litesong wrote: ...you "its" didn't watch the video. The chimney (the plant, too?) was out of commission & would be liquidated. The dare-devil kids ascended the chimney & walked around the narrow perimeter of the chimney, even juggling apples at one time. The video really is exciting & giddy. But, old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiners only get excited & giddy when they lie.


Okay. So what does that have to do with burning coal in the United States??


The Parrot Killer
01-12-2017 16:06
litesong
★★★★★
(2041)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: So what does that have to do with burning coal in the United States??
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" pretends it is stupid(maybe not pretend), to avoid the knowledge that coal-fired chimneys are built tall to keep nearby citizens from immediately having health problems. If coal-fired chimneys are clean burning, all coal-fired chimneys would be 10 feet in height, not 100+ times higher.
01-12-2017 18:59
Into the Night
★★★★★
(4531)
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: So what does that have to do with burning coal in the United States??
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" pretends it is stupid(maybe not pretend), to avoid the knowledge that coal-fired chimneys are built tall to keep nearby citizens from immediately having health problems. If coal-fired chimneys are clean burning, all coal-fired chimneys would be 10 feet in height, not 100+ times higher.


Okay. So what does that have to do with burning coal in the United States??

Chimneys are built high not to keep pollution from nearby people, but to improve the draft of the fire.


The Parrot Killer
01-12-2017 19:30
Wake
★★★★★
(2772)
Into the Night wrote:
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: So what does that have to do with burning coal in the United States??
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" pretends it is stupid(maybe not pretend), to avoid the knowledge that coal-fired chimneys are built tall to keep nearby citizens from immediately having health problems. If coal-fired chimneys are clean burning, all coal-fired chimneys would be 10 feet in height, not 100+ times higher.


Okay. So what does that have to do with burning coal in the United States??

Chimneys are built high not to keep pollution from nearby people, but to improve the draft of the fire.


You would have to have one hell of a hot fire to use a chimney that high to improve draft. They are that high to put the pollutants into the higher atmosphere so that they are far more diluted when they fall to the ground. And it works.

That Slovene power station is out of operation because they have many more modern ones built. Remember that NO other country had any limits on carbon production.
01-12-2017 21:01
Into the Night
★★★★★
(4531)
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: So what does that have to do with burning coal in the United States??
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" pretends it is stupid(maybe not pretend), to avoid the knowledge that coal-fired chimneys are built tall to keep nearby citizens from immediately having health problems. If coal-fired chimneys are clean burning, all coal-fired chimneys would be 10 feet in height, not 100+ times higher.


Okay. So what does that have to do with burning coal in the United States??

Chimneys are built high not to keep pollution from nearby people, but to improve the draft of the fire.


You would have to have one hell of a hot fire to use a chimney that high to improve draft.

Doesn't work that way. The chimney helps you get the hotter fire in the first place by moving more air through the firebox. That's why you HAVE chimneys. The higher the chimney, the better the draft, regardless of the size of the fire.
Wake wrote:
They are that high to put the pollutants into the higher atmosphere

Even the tallest chimneys do not extend into the upper atmosphere.
Wake wrote:
so that they are far more diluted when they fall to the ground.

Sulfur dioxides do not fall to the ground. They stay suspended in the air until the much lighter water falls as rain.
Wake wrote:
And it works.

Sort of.
Wake wrote:
That Slovene power station is out of operation because they have many more modern ones built.

And what has this to do with coal furnaces in the United States?
Wake wrote:
Remember that NO other country had any limits on carbon production.

Neither do we. We can produce all the carbon we want.


The Parrot Killer
02-12-2017 00:46
Wake
★★★★★
(2772)
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
litesong wrote:
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" bluffed: So what does that have to do with burning coal in the United States??
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" pretends it is stupid(maybe not pretend), to avoid the knowledge that coal-fired chimneys are built tall to keep nearby citizens from immediately having health problems. If coal-fired chimneys are clean burning, all coal-fired chimneys would be 10 feet in height, not 100+ times higher.


Okay. So what does that have to do with burning coal in the United States??

Chimneys are built high not to keep pollution from nearby people, but to improve the draft of the fire.


You would have to have one hell of a hot fire to use a chimney that high to improve draft.

Doesn't work that way. The chimney helps you get the hotter fire in the first place by moving more air through the firebox. That's why you HAVE chimneys. The higher the chimney, the better the draft, regardless of the size of the fire.
Wake wrote:
They are that high to put the pollutants into the higher atmosphere

Even the tallest chimneys do not extend into the upper atmosphere.
Wake wrote:
so that they are far more diluted when they fall to the ground.

Sulfur dioxides do not fall to the ground. They stay suspended in the air until the much lighter water falls as rain.
Wake wrote:
And it works.

Sort of.
Wake wrote:
That Slovene power station is out of operation because they have many more modern ones built.

And what has this to do with coal furnaces in the United States?
Wake wrote:
Remember that NO other country had any limits on carbon production.

Neither do we. We can produce all the carbon we want.


I see that your knowledge of thermodynamics is as good as your knowledge of calorimeters. Who could possibly be surprised?
02-12-2017 03:19
litesong
★★★★★
(2041)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner badnight" agreed:
litesong wrote: ... old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy slimebag steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiners only get excited & giddy when they lie.
Okay.
Good that you agree with me.




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