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How Do You Know When Climate Has Been Affected?


How Do You Know When Climate Has Been Affected?17-05-2019 19:09
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3531)
I normally ask this question on every board I frequent and on this board I seem to be overdue, and then I was nudged by a discussion on another board.

So there I was, taking jabs at warmizombies on ProBoards when one of them reponded in that ever-so-educated English that we have come to expect from warmizombies:

sigurdur wrote: I know, don't "believe" mankind has an effect on climate change.

I am neither a dunce nor poor at economics.


That last comment of his pertains to my jabs at how economically illiterate Marxists are.

So, the question to all those believers in a global "Climate" ... who are forever screaming that "Climate is always changing!" ... how do you know when Climate has changed?

If the answer is that you really don't know, then the follow-on question is "Why do you believe that Climate is always changing?"


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-05-2019 19:49
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1140)
I know the global climate is changing because every time I turn on the news they tell me about a climate disaster somewhere across the globe. They have no reason to lie to us. I believe them.

I'm still waiting for the effects of climate change where I live, but I'm certain it is coming soon. However, I know for sure the Arctic Circle is where the effects of climate change are being felt the most because so much research is concentrated there.

Does that answer your question?
17-05-2019 20:00
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(599)
Because every year, it runs a little different. Sometimes it's kind of rough going, other years it's really mild. Sometimes you get some really extreme changes, that you remember for decades, and hope to never have to endure ever again. I know Florida's climate has changed quite a bit over the past 20 years, the winters barely get down to freezing, not even close to a hard freeze, which is great for killing off some of the bugs (damn lovebugs). Summers haven't gotten as hot either. It kind of getting to be like, what I hope 'Global Warming' really means, little to no winter cold, basically the same summer weather. Getting rid of the extreme winter cold, would change the yearly average temperature to appear there is warming, but not in bad, catastrophic way. Really, doesn't matter though, we can adapt to any climate, who cares if it changes, it's just a new challenge to overcome.
17-05-2019 20:15
Into the Night
★★★★★
(7663)
GasGuzzler wrote:
I know the global climate is changing because every time I turn on the news they tell me about a climate disaster somewhere across the globe. They have no reason to lie to us. I believe them.

This is just passing the buck. How does the <list authority here> know the climate has changed? What constitutes a 'change'? Passing the buck to the news media as the authority fails to answer the question.
GasGuzzler wrote:
I'm still waiting for the effects of climate change where I live, but I'm certain it is coming soon. However, I know for sure the Arctic Circle is where the effects of climate change are being felt the most because so much research is concentrated there.

This is a circular argument that fails to answer the question. You are essentially saying that climate change is climate change.
GasGuzzler wrote:
Does that answer your question?

No, it doesn't answer his question. Neither does any of it define 'climate change' at all.


The Parrot Killer
17-05-2019 20:18
Into the Night
★★★★★
(7663)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Because every year, it runs a little different. Sometimes it's kind of rough going, other years it's really mild. Sometimes you get some really extreme changes, that you remember for decades, and hope to never have to endure ever again. I know Florida's climate has changed quite a bit over the past 20 years, the winters barely get down to freezing, not even close to a hard freeze, which is great for killing off some of the bugs (damn lovebugs). Summers haven't gotten as hot either. It kind of getting to be like, what I hope 'Global Warming' really means, little to no winter cold, basically the same summer weather. Getting rid of the extreme winter cold, would change the yearly average temperature to appear there is warming, but not in bad, catastrophic way. Really, doesn't matter though, we can adapt to any climate, who cares if it changes, it's just a new challenge to overcome.


You have described variances in weather in Florida. How do you know the climate has changed? What constitutes a 'change' in climate? When is the moment this occurs?


The Parrot Killer
17-05-2019 20:20
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3531)
GasGuzzler wrote:I know the global climate is changing because every time I turn on the news they tell me about a climate disaster somewhere across the globe. They have no reason to lie to us. I believe them.

I genuinely appreciate your omission of smileys.

GasGuzzler wrote: I'm still waiting for the effects of climate change where I live, but I'm certain it is coming soon.

It will undoubtedly be catastrophic. Do you think zombies will be involved?

GasGuzzler wrote: However, I know for sure the Arctic Circle is where the effects of climate change are being felt the most because so much research is concentrated there.

They are studying the Arctic while it's still there. Any day now it will all be melted away so we have to get the research in while we can.

GasGuzzler wrote:Does that answer your question?

You bet.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-05-2019 20:26
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3531)
Into the Night wrote: I't answer his question. Neither does any of it define 'climate change' at all.

You have to remember that the question is supposed to be answered by those who believe in a Global Climate that is changing. I don't think GasGuzzler fits that bill.

On the other hand, this forum has some Climate believers from whom I'd be greatly interested in hearing their answers.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-05-2019 21:45
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(424)
IBdaMann wrote:


... how do you know when Climate has changed?
The question I always finds shuts them down is to ask them what the baseline for determining what the change should be.

They frequently will say before the industrial revolutions, where as I return, "you mean the little ice age when the temperature fell 3°C in half a century, and people were freezing to death, and crops fell from the sudden loss in climate?"

Very seldom do I get a response.

Usually, they will quote the hockey stick graph and I will show them graphs that show the mwp was in every continent except maybe middle Canada and northern central USA.
Edited on 17-05-2019 21:46
17-05-2019 22:07
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1140)
GasGuzzler wrote:I know the global climate is changing because every time I turn on the news they tell me about a climate disaster somewhere across the globe. They have no reason to lie to us. I believe them.


IBdaMann wrote: I genuinely appreciate your omission of smileys.

The looming disaster is no laughing matter.
GasGuzzler wrote: I'm still waiting for the effects of climate change where I live, but I'm certain it is coming soon.

IBdaMann wrote: It will undoubtedly be catastrophic. Do you think zombies will be involved?

Almost a certainty. Using mutation proxy data, top scientists in Europe have linked warmer temperatures to a 97% increased rate in mutations. The expert scientific consensus is that zombies may be the least of our worries as more and more heat gets trapped in our atmosphere. I believe them.

GasGuzzler wrote: However, I know for sure the Arctic Circle is where the effects of climate change are being felt the most because so much research is concentrated there.

IBdaMann wrote: They are studying the Arctic while it's still there. Any day now it will all be melted away so we have to get the research in while we can.

These brave souls are performing dangerous work. They really should wear life jackets while on the Arctic ice.
GasGuzzler wrote:Does that answer your question?

IBdaMann wrote: You bet.

Happy to help. Let me know if I can answer any further questions.
Edited on 17-05-2019 22:31
17-05-2019 23:10
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1140)
GasGuzzler wrote:
[quote]GasGuzzler wrote:I know the global climate is changing because every time I turn on the news they tell me about a climate disaster somewhere across the globe. They have no reason to lie to us. I believe them.


IBdaMann wrote: I genuinely appreciate your omission of smileys.

The looming disaster is no laughing matter.
GasGuzzler wrote: I'm still waiting for the effects of climate change where I live, but I'm certain it is coming soon.

IBdaMann wrote: It will undoubtedly be catastrophic. Do you think zombies will be involved?

Almost a certainty. Using several mutation proxy data studies, top scientists in Europe have linked warmer temperatures to a 97% increased rate of mutations. The expert scientific consensus is that zombies may be the least of our worries as more and more heat gets trapped in our atmosphere. I believe them.

GasGuzzler wrote: However, I know for sure the Arctic Circle is where the effects of climate change are being felt the most because so much research is concentrated there.

IBdaMann wrote: They are studying the Arctic while it's still there. Any day now it will all be melted away so we have to get the research in while we can.

These brave souls are performing dangerous work. They really should wear life jackets while on the Arctic ice.
GasGuzzler wrote:Does that answer your question?

IBdaMann wrote: You bet.

Happy to help. Let me know if I can answer any further questions.
Edited on 17-05-2019 23:11
18-05-2019 05:11
HarveyH55
★★★☆☆
(599)
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
Because every year, it runs a little different. Sometimes it's kind of rough going, other years it's really mild. Sometimes you get some really extreme changes, that you remember for decades, and hope to never have to endure ever again. I know Florida's climate has changed quite a bit over the past 20 years, the winters barely get down to freezing, not even close to a hard freeze, which is great for killing off some of the bugs (damn lovebugs). Summers haven't gotten as hot either. It kind of getting to be like, what I hope 'Global Warming' really means, little to no winter cold, basically the same summer weather. Getting rid of the extreme winter cold, would change the yearly average temperature to appear there is warming, but not in bad, catastrophic way. Really, doesn't matter though, we can adapt to any climate, who cares if it changes, it's just a new challenge to overcome.


You have described variances in weather in Florida. How do you know the climate has changed? What constitutes a 'change' in climate? When is the moment this occurs?


We haven't had the harsh extremes in nearly two decades now. Of course, I'm only going by personal experience, for the 31 years I've lived here, and haven't bother looking further back. I've seen the damage the freezing weather use to do to orange groves around here, acres of tree killed by it. Been a long time, since I've seen anything even remotely like that. Lot fewer orange groves these days, though. Guess affordable housing, and strip malls are more profitable...
18-05-2019 05:58
dehammer
★★★☆☆
(424)
No one is denying that the climate warmed since the bottom of the little ice age, but that doesn't mean its man made.
18-05-2019 07:07
Into the Night
★★★★★
(7663)
dehammer wrote:
No one is denying that the climate warmed since the bottom of the little ice age, but that doesn't mean its man made.

Which climate warmed? There is no such thing as a global climate.


The Parrot Killer
18-05-2019 12:52
paramount99
☆☆☆☆☆
(39)
GasGuzzler wrote:
I know the global climate is changing because every time I turn on the news they tell me about a climate disaster somewhere across the globe. They have no reason to lie to us. I believe them.

Truly: you cannot believe they have no reason to lie to you? Surely? Tell me you are having a laugh with us? Or on the other hand: do you ever question anything for yourself?

I'm still waiting for the effects of climate change where I live, but I'm certain it is coming soon. However, I know for sure the Arctic Circle is where the effects of climate change are being felt the most because so much research is concentrated there.

See how you have been bullied into believing this rubbish?!? You are almost fearful - and they have done this to you. You must learn to question things you see or hear!

Does that answer your question?


It answers nothing...
18-05-2019 12:58
paramount99
☆☆☆☆☆
(39)
GasGuzzler wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:I know the global climate is changing because every time I turn on the news they tell me about a climate disaster somewhere across the globe. They have no reason to lie to us. I believe them.


IBdaMann wrote: I genuinely appreciate your omission of smileys.

The looming disaster is no laughing matter.
GasGuzzler wrote: I'm still waiting for the effects of climate change where I live, but I'm certain it is coming soon.

IBdaMann wrote: It will undoubtedly be catastrophic. Do you think zombies will be involved?

Almost a certainty. Using mutation proxy data, top scientists in Europe have linked warmer temperatures to a 97% increased rate in mutations. The expert scientific consensus is that zombies may be the least of our worries as more and more heat gets trapped in our atmosphere. I believe them.

GasGuzzler wrote: However, I know for sure the Arctic Circle is where the effects of climate change are being felt the most because so much research is concentrated there.

IBdaMann wrote: They are studying the Arctic while it's still there. Any day now it will all be melted away so we have to get the research in while we can.

These brave souls are performing dangerous work. They really should wear life jackets while on the Arctic ice.
GasGuzzler wrote:Does that answer your question?

IBdaMann wrote: You bet.

Happy to help. Let me know if I can answer any further questions.



And then there was darkness... And soon the eclipse had passed!
18-05-2019 16:42
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3531)
dehammer wrote:
No one is denying that the climate warmed since the bottom of the little ice age, but that doesn't mean its man made.

Question: When you use the word "climate" do you mean "average global temperature"?

i.e. "climate" = a temperature ?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
18-05-2019 16:52
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1140)
paramount99 wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:I know the global climate is changing because every time I turn on the news they tell me about a climate disaster somewhere across the globe. They have no reason to lie to us. I believe them.


IBdaMann wrote: I genuinely appreciate your omission of smileys.

The looming disaster is no laughing matter.
GasGuzzler wrote: I'm still waiting for the effects of climate change where I live, but I'm certain it is coming soon.

IBdaMann wrote: It will undoubtedly be catastrophic. Do you think zombies will be involved?

Almost a certainty. Using mutation proxy data, top scientists in Europe have linked warmer temperatures to a 97% increased rate in mutations. The expert scientific consensus is that zombies may be the least of our worries as more and more heat gets trapped in our atmosphere. I believe them.

GasGuzzler wrote: However, I know for sure the Arctic Circle is where the effects of climate change are being felt the most because so much research is concentrated there.

IBdaMann wrote: They are studying the Arctic while it's still there. Any day now it will all be melted away so we have to get the research in while we can.

These brave souls are performing dangerous work. They really should wear life jackets while on the Arctic ice.
GasGuzzler wrote:Does that answer your question?

IBdaMann wrote: You bet.

Happy to help. Let me know if I can answer any further questions.



And then there was darkness... And soon the eclipse had passed!


Hey, do you have any idea how hard it is to type that shit? The whole time I'm thinking wow, I need need a high five in the face!
18-05-2019 19:41
Into the Night
★★★★★
(7663)
GasGuzzler wrote:
paramount99 wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:I know the global climate is changing because every time I turn on the news they tell me about a climate disaster somewhere across the globe. They have no reason to lie to us. I believe them.


IBdaMann wrote: I genuinely appreciate your omission of smileys.

The looming disaster is no laughing matter.
GasGuzzler wrote: I'm still waiting for the effects of climate change where I live, but I'm certain it is coming soon.

IBdaMann wrote: It will undoubtedly be catastrophic. Do you think zombies will be involved?

Almost a certainty. Using mutation proxy data, top scientists in Europe have linked warmer temperatures to a 97% increased rate in mutations. The expert scientific consensus is that zombies may be the least of our worries as more and more heat gets trapped in our atmosphere. I believe them.

GasGuzzler wrote: However, I know for sure the Arctic Circle is where the effects of climate change are being felt the most because so much research is concentrated there.

IBdaMann wrote: They are studying the Arctic while it's still there. Any day now it will all be melted away so we have to get the research in while we can.

These brave souls are performing dangerous work. They really should wear life jackets while on the Arctic ice.
GasGuzzler wrote:Does that answer your question?

IBdaMann wrote: You bet.

Happy to help. Let me know if I can answer any further questions.



And then there was darkness... And soon the eclipse had passed!


Hey, do you have any idea how hard it is to type that shit? The whole time I'm thinking wow, I need need a high five in the face!

Parody comedy is hard to write, isn't it? I'll give you that high five. Face hurt yet?



The Parrot Killer
Edited on 18-05-2019 19:42
20-05-2019 22:11
Wake
★★★★★
(4021)
IBdaMann wrote:
I normally ask this question on every board I frequent and on this board I seem to be overdue, and then I was nudged by a discussion on another board.

So there I was, taking jabs at warmizombies on ProBoards when one of them reponded in that ever-so-educated English that we have come to expect from warmizombies:

sigurdur wrote: I know, don't "believe" mankind has an effect on climate change.

I am neither a dunce nor poor at economics.


That last comment of his pertains to my jabs at how economically illiterate Marxists are.

So, the question to all those believers in a global "Climate" ... who are forever screaming that "Climate is always changing!" ... how do you know when Climate has changed?

If the answer is that you really don't know, then the follow-on question is "Why do you believe that Climate is always changing?"


In the 50's when I was growing up it was hotter than hell all the time. For the last 10 or so years when we've been told it is burning how it has been warmer in Ketchikan, Alaska than in the San Francisco area.

Does this mean that the climate has varied in the bay area or does it mean that you can only use the mean global average to describe climate?
21-05-2019 18:39
Into the Night
★★★★★
(7663)
Wake wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
I normally ask this question on every board I frequent and on this board I seem to be overdue, and then I was nudged by a discussion on another board.

So there I was, taking jabs at warmizombies on ProBoards when one of them reponded in that ever-so-educated English that we have come to expect from warmizombies:

sigurdur wrote: I know, don't "believe" mankind has an effect on climate change.

I am neither a dunce nor poor at economics.


That last comment of his pertains to my jabs at how economically illiterate Marxists are.

So, the question to all those believers in a global "Climate" ... who are forever screaming that "Climate is always changing!" ... how do you know when Climate has changed?

If the answer is that you really don't know, then the follow-on question is "Why do you believe that Climate is always changing?"


In the 50's when I was growing up it was hotter than hell all the time.

A rather subjective opinion. Meaningless.
Wake wrote:
For the last 10 or so years when we've been told it is burning how it has been warmer in Ketchikan, Alaska than in the San Francisco area.

That is normal. Ketchikan can easily get warmer than San Francisco. So can Anchorage or even Fairbanks.
Wake wrote:
Does this mean that the climate has varied in the bay area or does it mean that you can only use the mean global average to describe climate?

There is no way to average a climate. Climate has no quantity.
Averaging temperatures is rather pointless. Temperature varies in all four cities.


The Parrot Killer
21-05-2019 21:39
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(3531)
Wake wrote: Does this mean that the climate has varied in the bay area or does it mean that you can only use the mean global average to describe climate?

You have to know what "Climate" is in order to describe it.

What is it?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist




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