Another better way to post on Climate-debate.com
| Another better way to post on Climate-debate.com22-10-2015 18:31 | |
trafn ★★★☆☆(779) |
Let me open this thread by stating how great this website is, as it's one of the few places on the internet where anyone can talk about M2C2 (man-made climate change) for free. As such, it offers us all the opportunity to exchange ideas about, and consider the many possibilities surrounding, this new situation. Unfortunately, this kind of website, being an open forum, also invites certain obstacles, and I will use myself as a case in point. Now let me begin by clarifying that by using myself as an example, I am not suggesting that I am the only person representative of this example. In fact, I think if you look at the half-dozen or so regular contributors here, of which I am one, you will find that we all, at times, are representative of this example. That said, I am currently the number one contributor to this website, and I know so because every time I click enter and post a new comment, the website informs me that "you are no. 1 on the list of most active users." Unfortunately, if you were to look at all of the over-500 posts I've made here, you'd quickly realize that only about 100-200 of them are actually on topic and constructive contributions to their respective threads. The remainder are either off topic or, worse yet, me criticizing the messenger when I should be commenting on the message. There are many reasons for this type of non-constructive behavior. Originally, when I first discovered this website a few weeks ago and made my first post Bursting the Atmosphere: what happens when rain falls up, I did so with the full intent of contributing only on topic, constructive content. Unfortunately, it quickly became apparent that not everyone here was participating on those same terms. I responded to this by creating threads which were aimed at turning the conversations here into a more positive direction, such as: A better way to post on Climate-debate.com ...and... The reality of an open online debate forum Sadly, these did not have the desired impact, and Climate-debate.com continued on in a predominantly non-constructive direction. So, I decided to join in the mayhem and fight fire with fire. While this proved somewhat entertaining for awhile, and it did provide me the opportunity to sharpen my sarcastic whit, it only resulted in my making a vast volume of irrelevant posts which further clogged up threads and drove non-participant guests to this website away. While I was able to silence one or two of the other non-contributory individuals who were actively posting here, ultimately, I also just further empowered the ones who remained. This was not my goal. The real goal of this site, in my opinion, is not to get everyone to agree. The real goal is to have a free, open exchange of ideas which is conducted in a constructive and respectful manner. This means that it's okay to disagree, even about things almost everyone else agrees upon, as long as it's done in a constructive and respectful way. When it comes to M2C2, there are currently two main camps of opinions: the 97% who are believers (97%B's), and the 3% who are doubters (3%D's). I am in no way suggesting that the 3% should be excluded from this website. In fact, they more than anyone else belong here, for they are the vanguards of one of the foundation corner-stones of science: skepticism. Should we exclude them, we run the risk of becoming nothing more than a bunch of self-serving yes-people who lack the ability to see beyond our own noses. On the other hand, in the face of overwhelming evidence which is contrary to one's position, it can be very difficult to be a constructive 3%D'er (3%cD), as it is ultimately frustrating to champion a banner behind which there are so few supporters. This make 3%D'ers prone to the hazard of shifting from doubters to denialist, or what I call destructive 3%D's (3%dD's). Now there are dozens of websites that already address the denialist problem in M2C2, like Denial101x, so I won't rehash all the details here. Just realize that, currently on this website, the 3%dD's have taken hold of the conversations to the point that not only are they making destructive posts (i.e. - posts that are off topic and non-contributory), but they've also drawn the 95%B's into similar behavior which is the ultimate goal of denialist: preventing constructive conversation from occurring in the first place. Well, what's the matter with all of this? So what if there's a website where both the 3%D's and the 97%B's get down and dirty in the mud for a bit of the old roust-about? Nothing, if this website did not have the potential to be the premier home for constructive, open and free discourse about M2C2. But to do that, there need to be many voices - both of the 97% as well as the 3% - who are participating. Yet, now, at best, there are only a paltry half-dozen individuals who post here at any given time. Why? Because though there's a regular flow of "guests" who regularly land here and have a look around, it obviously becomes quickly apparent to them that this site is nothing more than a few people involved in mud wrestling, something the overwhelming majority of our guests have no apparent interest in, and so they decline to join in our conversations. And that's why I've created this thread: to propose a way to change that; to propose a way to have over-whelmingly constructive discourse; to propose a way to re-energize Climat-date.com and make it into something valuable to the internet at large. So here goes. Right now there are three people who, in my opinion, have contributed mostly constructive content to this website: climate scientist, Ceist, and Totototo. Right or wrong (you can decide), I'm also including myself in this group. Rather than making general comments or ones addressed at a single individual, for now, I'm predicating all of my posts with this: "@climate scientist, Ceist, Totototo, and trafn only - ..." My goal here is to make everyone, regardless of whether they are of the 97% or the 3%, aware that this post is aimed at those who support constructive, respectful dialogue. This does not mean that a 3%dD'er can't post a comment in response to one of mine, but it does mean that I won't be responding to them publicly in a thread. Whenever someone from a 97%B perspetive publicly responds to a 3%dD based post, it only empowers that 3%dD'er to continue down the 3%dD pathway. So from now on, when I make one of my "@-only" posts: 1. If a 3%dD response is posted, I will not respond, thereby not further empowering the 3%dD behavior. 2. If a 3%dD person should make an on topic, constructive response, I will reply by PM only, until such time as I am convinced that they have stopped posting as a 3%dD contributor and are now willing to post as a 3%cD contributor (i.e. - have shifted back from being a denialist to a doubter). This will keep me from empowering their 3%dD behavior, while leaving the door open for their return to a more constructive means of participating here. 3. If a 3%dD person should make an off topic, constructive response (i.e. - off topic but of interest in the M2C2 arena), then I will suggest via PM that they begin a new thread which I will gladly consider participating in if it comes from a 3%cD, doubter rather than denialist, perspective. Well, that's a lot to take in all at once, and I hope everyone will see the value in this approach. Ultimately, we want as many people to participate here in as constructive and respectful manner as is possible. Of course, that means that we must also realize that anyone, including myself, can at times charge off in the wrong direction. If and when that does happen, this does not have to drag down the entire website. Hopefully, with the above suggestion, we will now have a way to re-welcome the distracting individual back into our constructive, respectful conversations. Thoughts? The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards
1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator! 2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking! 3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers! 4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen! Edited on 22-10-2015 18:38 |
| 22-10-2015 19:07 | |
| Tim the plumber★★★★☆ (1356) |
On the other hand, in the face of overwhelming evidence which is contrary to one's position, it can be very difficult to be a constructive 3%D'er (3%cD), as it is ultimately frustrating to champion a banner behind which there are so few supporters. This make 3%D'ers prone to the hazard of shifting from doubters to denialist, or what I call destructive 3%D's (3%dD's). Disagreeing with you is not wrong. If it destroys your argument then that is what is supposed to happen Only the good argument survive. Evolution of ideas etc. I find it easy to keep the thread focused. I just repeat the question which has not been answered. If it has been answered then this would give the other guy an opportunity to score the point again. I do that a lot too. Keep it simple and breif. Nobody is going to read more than half of the above. |
| 22-10-2015 19:31 | |
IBdaMann ★★★★★(14414) |
trafn wrote:Thoughts? Yes. 1. Quite arrogant. You believe that the blather of the small group of religiously fanatical warmazombies is the only material to be considered "constructive"... which completely exposes the insincereity of your assertion that you somehow want a free exchange of ideas. 2. Are you an administrator on this site? A creator? Why are you presuming to speak for the intent of this site? 3. So you no longer wish to respond to posts that disagree with your opinion. Well, well, well. You instead prefer to hold your private sidebars with other fanatical members of your congregation. That's great! There will no longer be any pretense that any of you are somehow trying to incorporate science into your stupid dogma. You will all just blatantly shun it! ...and you will do so in recognition that science is precisely that "non-productive" differing viewpoint that rubs you the wrong way. I appreciate all the effort through which you are going to prove my point. Thank you. I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 22-10-2015 19:38 | |
| trafn★★★☆☆ (779) |
@climate scientist, Ceist and Tototo only - there are two ways to approach any discussion: 1. The law of inclusion, or the philosophy of the included middle, or.... 2. The law of exclusion, or the philosophy of the excluded middle. The first is an eastern philosophy which made the early Chinese so wise. They were willing to concede that in any discussion with two seemingly opposing views, that there was probably some truth in both viewpoints: a middle ground that both parties shared. The second is a western philosophy which is epitomized in things like Karl Popper's concepts of falsifiable models. It assumes that there can be only one right answer which excludes all other (no shared middle ground). In a new field of study such as climate change science, I find it best to use the eastern approach, until such time as the knowns far outweigh the unknowns. Perhaps we will arrive at that point in a few decades. The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards 1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator! 2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking! 3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers! 4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen! |
| 22-10-2015 19:41 | |
| climate scientist★★☆☆☆ (257) |
@ trafn, Tototo, Ceist and all other constructive contributors Well done, this is a great idea. It is a great shame that the discussions of this forum have gone significantly down-hill in recent weeks, and I think this is a great way to help get things back on track, and promote a more positive atmosphere, where everyone can state their opinions without any personal attacks. |
| 22-10-2015 19:48 | |
| trafn★★★☆☆ (779) |
@all other constructive contibutors: - climate scientist: thank you. I'm hoping this will turn this website around and make it of great value to the internet. In some ways, maybe this is the good that will come out the mayhem which has overtaken this site. Perhaps we are establishing guidelines for ensuring that all such internet discussion/debate forums can thrive without being overtaken by a few misguided individuals. By the way, I like the phrase you used in your post's title, and I've co-opted it. Edited on 22-10-2015 19:57 |
| 22-10-2015 20:17 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14414) |
climate scientist wrote: It is a great shame that the discussions of this forum have gone significantly down-hill in recent weeks, What with science getting infused into the discussions and really screwing with the dogma and all. And with you being exposed for the fraud that you are, I can see how that would sour the dogmatic milk as it were. You never imagined that the complex topic of "volume" would arise, did you? climate scientist wrote: and I think this is a great way to help get things back on track, I wholeheartedly agree. The warmazombies should have scurried away and held mini-sermons in their private little huddles long ago. The good news is that it's never too late to start. climate scientist wrote: and promote a more positive atmosphere, where everyone can state their opinions without any personal attacks. Exactly right. Don't have any conversations with anyone who is willing to defer to science or who otherwise holds a differing viewpoint and your rigid intolerance won't compel you to start hurling petty insults. Don't try to pretend you're smarter than people who are way smarter than you and you won't have to transparently feign indignation. Wait, here's an idea. Be positive to those who are helping you with science and keep the atmosphere positive. What? That's out of the question? Oh well, have it your way. I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 22-10-2015 21:13 | |
Into the Night ★★★★★(21599) |
IBdaMann wrote:climate scientist wrote: It is a great shame that the discussions of this forum have gone significantly down-hill in recent weeks, It's simpler than that. It's bulverism. This type of argument is often fundamental to religions and even racism. It's a form of bigotry. I am impressed that someone would actually sell a certificate that says you buy into the global warming concept. Edited on 22-10-2015 21:28 |
| 22-10-2015 23:18 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14414) |
Into the Night wrote:I am impressed that someone would actually sell a certificate that says you buy into the global warming concept. Lefist governments, in their appetite for growth and new revenues, have made selling such certificates a lucrative business. Marxists consider the title of a "climate" person to be like proudly earning one's brown shirt. You know what happens to opposition. C.S. Lewis had a lot to say about religious debates. It all has applicability in Global Warming discussions as well. I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 23-10-2015 00:19 | |
| Into the Night★★★★★ (21599) |
IBdaMann wrote:Into the Night wrote:I am impressed that someone would actually sell a certificate that says you buy into the global warming concept. Thanks for the enlightenment about these certificates. I had no idea it had gone this far. Searching around, I find these certificates to be quite the fad with a lot of colleges now. |
| 23-10-2015 00:42 | |
| trafn★★★☆☆ (779) |
@all constructive contributors: I encourage everyone to invite anyone they know to come to Climate-debate.com and read this thread. Hopefully, by doing this, we will be able to attract some more constructive contributors to the website and increase the volume of interesting conversations which are happening here. |
| 23-10-2015 00:53 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14414) |
@Everyone Only: I encourage everyone to invite anyone they know to come to Climate-debate.com and read this thread. Hopefully, by doing this, we will be able increase the ratio of constructive contributors to "climate" brown shirts. Hopefully, in so doing, we'll be able to increase the education level of the conversations which are happening here. I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 23-10-2015 01:08 | |
| trafn★★★☆☆ (779) |
@all constructive contributors: I just want to thank everyone who gives the suggestions in this thread a try. Change is not easy, and often things get worse before they get better. But, with perseverance, I believe that we can make this a great website for everyone to learn from and enjoy. The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards 1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator! 2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking! 3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers! 4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen! |
| 23-10-2015 01:17 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14414) |
@Everyone Only: I just want to join trafn in magnanimously thanking everyone who puts up with the "climate" brownshirts.without expecting any tolerance in return. Dealing with religious bigotry and hatred is not easy, and often things get worse before they get better. But, with perseverance, I believe that we can make this a great website for everyone to learn from and enjoy.[/quote] I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 23-10-2015 05:44 | |
| Totototo★☆☆☆☆ (117) |
Whoa Tranf, that's a long text and I aprecciate the effort. I think it's a matter of creating new posts everytime we go off-topic and the subject is interesting and worthy of its own post. Like the discussion with IB about what is and what's not a pollutant, in the thread about the M2C2 smoking gun. |
| 23-10-2015 11:52 | |
| Tim the plumber★★★★☆ (1356) |
climate scientist wrote: Where have any of the skeptics here done any persoanl attacks? I certainly challenge you to find one I have made. I have been subject to constant such things but I have avoided retaliating as they show the level of inability of the attacker. |
| 23-10-2015 18:24 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14414) |
Tim the plumber wrote: You have been very civil and not made any attacks, except in the sense that you have "assaulted" (questioned) their religion, which they perceive as a personal attack on them. They become equivalently offended. It's not your fault and there's nothing you can do about it. Rational discussion is rarely possible with a warmizombie. Be prepared for any and all types of petty insults and accusations to be hurled at you. It's just a fear-panic reaction on their part. Just making you go away is their top priority. I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 23-10-2015 18:54 | |
| branner Administrator  ☆☆☆☆☆(34) |
Thanks, trafn, for your thoughts and effort to push Climate-Debate.com in a more constructive direction. Also thanks to all other users who will refrain from making personal attacks. As you have probably found out, I simply don't have the time to participate in the many threads myself at the moment. As the forum matures, I think it would be great to find some moderators among the regular contributors, but it can be difficult to find someone neutral that everyone trusts, as the debate tends to get very polarized... Also, I need to write some guidelines, and an "About Climate-Debate.com" page soon, which I think will help giving a more "established" impression to new visitors coming by. I think it's just a matter of time, before the number of regular contributors will grow. Just keep posting great relevant content, and more and more visitors will discover the site (from Google or from some of you telling others directly about the site!). |
| 24-10-2015 00:24 | |
| trafn★★★☆☆ (779) |
@all constructive contributors: - Totototo: yes, it would be nice to see this website more organized with a focus toward on topic content and an exchange of ideas. Ultimately, there is some value in every viewpoint, as no one has all the answers. The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards
1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator! 2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking! 3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers! 4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen! Edited on 24-10-2015 00:29 |
| 24-10-2015 00:33 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14414) |
trafn wrote: Agreed, so stop trying to bully different viewpoints off the board. You keep trying to force your religious views into the monopoly and they are what's preventing constructive discussion. If you so desperately need to huddle your faithful into private sermons, take it to an entirely religious board where you can have that sort of environment. I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 24-10-2015 00:53 | |
| trafn★★★☆☆ (779) |
@all constructive contributors: I just read branner's most recent post here, and it's obvious that he's not aware of what has happened to this website. That's really too bad, as it has a lot of potential which will never be realized in its current state. If you take the time to look at the Last 100 posts here, you'll see that the conversation is always dominated by the same 5 or 6 people, and they're basically saying the same things over and over again, very little of which is actually worth responding to or commenting on. If anyone knows of a climate website where people actually enjoy discussing differing points of views without insulting or ridiculing each other, please PM me the info. The 2015 M2C2 (Global 9/11) Denialist Troll Awards 1st Place - Jep Branner - Our Stupid Administrator! 2nd Place - IBdaMann - Science IS cherry picking! 3rd Place - Into the Night - Mr. Nonsense numbers! 4th Place - Tim the plumber - The Drivel Queen! |
| 24-10-2015 04:28 | |
| Ceist★★★☆☆ (592) |
trafn wrote: Same here. This forum seems to have quickly become IBdaMann's personal stomping ground for his extremist ideological science-free rants and childish insults. Edited on 24-10-2015 04:36 |
| 24-10-2015 04:55 | |
| IBdaMann★★★★★ (14414) |
Ceist wrote:This forum seems to have quickly become IBdaMann's personal stomping ground for his extremist ideological science-free rants and childish insults. Wamizombies sure like to project. Case in point, you have not contributed anything of value to this forum, you have certainly not even demonstrated any understanding of science, and have only ever risen to the level of hurling petty insults. I like the way you try to make that somehow my fault. I don't think i can [define it]. I just kind of get a feel for the phrase. - keepit A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist. The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank :*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist |
| 24-10-2015 16:22 | |
| Tim the plumber★★★★☆ (1356) |
trafn wrote: I am reminded of the insults you have hurled at me. I have not insulted you just shown why your ideas are drivel. Your idea the the wrold is headed for a Venus style over heating is drivel. You are doing great damage to humanity by proporgating this propaganda. |
Join the debate Another better way to post on Climate-debate.com:
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