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01-06-2020 15:51
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7479)
HarveyH55 wrote:Evidence of what? The same three people take their off-topic arguments from thread-to-thread, burying the origin thread, in the same crap, si basically, there is only that personal argument throughout the site?

Climate change, is entirely opinion. We don't get to travel back in time, to make actual measurements and observations. And we don't get to travel into the future, to see if our speculations were correct. My opinion, is just as valid as 'expert' opinion, because that is all there is to this issue. What people believed happened in the distant past, and what might happen in the distant future. Me producing any sort of evidence, would be just regurgitating somebody else's opinion, interpretation.

Great post. Well said.
Attached image:

01-06-2020 16:29
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(585)
Like me Harvey can claim no sea level rise by the technical inovation of having a look and having lived in the same place for 50 years.Some twat in a building miles away claims it is going up because the science says it has to but it isnt where do we go from here
01-06-2020 17:24
keepit
★★★★☆
(1699)
Harvey,
I've studied enough science to take the opinion of legitimate scientists seriously. Their evidence is what i call evidence.
What you are doing is denying that what scientists say is really science. I think they call that science denial and that is what so many on this site accuse other people of doing.
01-06-2020 18:17
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1811)
keepit wrote:
"Death by covud", "death with covid".
Always with the semantics.


A man is eating a Hershey bar and has a heart attack. He falls over dead.

Option 1. Death BY chocolate.
Option 2. Death WITH chocolate.
Option 3. Keepit is a dumbass.

Hint: There are actually 2 correct answers.


All the time the base and surface are at equal temperature as the equilibrium graduates to establish the temperature development--Pete Rogers
01-06-2020 20:04
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1217)
GasGuzzler wrote:
keepit wrote:
"Death by covud", "death with covid".
Always with the semantics.


A man is eating a Hershey bar and has a heart attack. He falls over dead.

Option 1. Death BY chocolate.
Option 2. Death WITH chocolate.
Option 3. Keepit is a dumbass.

Hint: There are actually 2 correct answers.

Two wings way up.


But deep down inside, you know it's the chocolate that killed him...
01-06-2020 22:23
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13323)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
I've studied enough science to take the opinion of legitimate scientists seriously. Their evidence is what i call evidence.
What you are doing is denying that what scientists say is really science. I think they call that science denial and that is what so many on this site accuse other people of doing.


Science isn't scientists. It isn't even people at all. Define 'legitimate'. Science does not use supporting evidence. Only religions do that.

Buzzword fallacy (science).


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
02-06-2020 02:19
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(585)
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
I've studied enough science to take the opinion of legitimate scientists seriously. Their evidence is what i call evidence.
What you are doing is denying that what scientists say is really science. I think they call that science denial and that is what so many on this site accuse other people of doing.


This is the point entirely.We are not believing the data presented as it is being coerced and the scientists who put forward genuine observations are ignored.The Micheal Mann trials prove he made it up but the IPCC still went with it.So all data is tainted.When it happens I might care a little


duncan61
02-06-2020 20:26
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2430)
duncan61 wrote:
keepit wrote:
Harvey,
I've studied enough science to take the opinion of legitimate scientists seriously. Their evidence is what i call evidence.
What you are doing is denying that what scientists say is really science. I think they call that science denial and that is what so many on this site accuse other people of doing.


This is the point entirely.We are not believing the data presented as it is being coerced and the scientists who put forward genuine observations are ignored.The Micheal Mann trials prove he made it up but the IPCC still went with it.So all data is tainted.When it happens I might care a little


It's not really about the data, or even the research they use. Most all of it was done honestly, and the researchers worked really hard, to do the job right. It's more of the way those results are used, and being misrepresented, misinterpreted. The researchers can't really dispute it, since that's the nature of their work. They present what they observed, and give their opinion as to why. Everyone else is free to read their reports, and give their opinions as well, as long as it's consistent with the data recorded. Like the ice core samples... There is some chance, that they can look back in time, and get some idea of what was going on in the world, while the various layers were being frozen and compressed. There is no real timeline, as to days, weeks, months, or years, are represented in each layer though. No way to tell if there was a long melting period, that erased a few centuries accumulation. Not all gasses are perfectly frozen in space, they can move through ice. Pressure changes things a little too. CO2 can be detected, but there is no way to know if it really means anything, or if it's accurate, like the IPCC likes to claim. The ice core researchers can't make that call, one way or the other, nothing to prove otherwise. You can't accuse someone, without proof they are a fraud. Besides the IPCC gives them money. Would you go in, and tell your employer, they are filthy lairs, if you still want to keep getting paid?

It's tough to go through the IPCC assessment reports, and follow every paper cited. There is a mountain of them to read. It's not easy reading either, specially those that are hundreds of pages, and the IPCC only used mabe a few paragraphs, which usually have little value. The ones that sound to be really good, are behind pay-walls. Meaning, you have to pay a fee, or subscribe, just to see them. Could get expensive, specially, if they use them, much like the free research papers.
02-06-2020 21:52
keepit
★★★★☆
(1699)
Almost all scientist believe the research so why don't you?
I read 5 books on climate change so i have some knowledge.
02-06-2020 22:28
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13323)
keepit wrote:
Almost all scientist believe the research so why don't you?
I read 5 books on climate change so i have some knowledge.


'Climate change' is not knowledge. It's not even defined.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
02-06-2020 22:45
keepit
★★★★☆
(1699)
Hello ITN,
I hope you're doing well.
02-06-2020 23:02
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1217)
keepit wrote:
Almost all scientist believe the research so why don't you?

Appealing to "experts" and popularity, eh? That doesn't fly with me. You also haven't presented what you consider to be "the research". I'd like to peruse through it if you don't mind... or is "the research" some sort of entity that I need to place my faith in?


keepit wrote:
I read 5 books on climate change so i have some knowledge.

Did any of those books happen to offer up a valid definition for "climate change"?
02-06-2020 23:21
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2430)
keepit wrote:
Almost all scientist believe the research so why don't you?
I read 5 books on climate change so i have some knowledge.


There are different perspectives for everything, as you probably noticed here. On paper, something can be possible, plausible. You can admit to that, in absents of an argument to contradict. Which is pretty much central to the silly debate games some play here. It's not really that they 'believe' it's true, it's there is no argument to dispute. It's purely about winning the argument game, not the subject of the argument.

Research is used to support/sell an opinion, which can be profitable, in book sales, and research grants. And, unfortunately, that's what a lot of this crap comes down to any more. Who can sell their opinion, for the highest price, is the winner.
03-06-2020 02:13
duncan61
★★★☆☆
(585)
keepit wrote:
Almost all scientist believe the research so why don't you?
I read 5 books on climate change so i have some knowledge.


This is the problem.Not all scientist agree on the impact it will have.


duncan61
03-06-2020 08:16
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7479)
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
I read 5 books on climate change so i have some knowledge.

Did any of those books happen to offer up a valid definition for "climate change"?

Great question. Your account has been credited.

.
Attached image:


Edited on 03-06-2020 08:17
03-06-2020 08:19
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7479)
duncan61 wrote:
keepit wrote:
Almost all scientist believe the research so why don't you?
I read 5 books on climate change so i have some knowledge.


This is the problem.Not all scientist agree on the impact it will have.


Yet all scientists agree that there are no impacts from the completely undefined.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
03-06-2020 13:26
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3376)
IBdaMann wrote:
Doctors are correctly writing "Death *WITH* COVID-19" and that is not lying. No doctor is being told to write "Death *BY* COVID-19"
You just made that up IBD. I actually took the trouble to find the actual instructions earlier:
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...did you bother to read the footnotes, under the first graph? The second on, is pretty much as posted earlier, where any death, that had any possible relation to Covid-19, ....

Here are the guidelines from the CDC for you Harvey as it is an interesting question:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/icd/COVID-19-guidelines-final.pdf

"c) Acute respiratory illness due to COVID-19
(i) Pneumonia
For a pneumonia case confirmed as due to the 2019 novel coronavirus (COVID-19),
assign codes U07.1, COVID-19, ..."

So the code is "U07.1" for respritory distress death that the doctor actually think is cause by Covid-19 in a patient that has the virus.

You can see the death count for "U07.1" here:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

The leading causes of death in the country are heart disease and cancer. So no, people who die from heart attacks or cancer, even if they do test positive for Covid-19, would not get code "U07.1" for respritory distress death.

The US total for COVID-19 "U07.1" respritory distress deaths specifically is 62,515. In New York it is 15,757. That is 70% of the 22,619 that is reported.
So IBD what do you imagine the patients coded with U07.1 are actually dying of? The usually leading causes of death? Heart Disease mistaken for pneumonia perhaps?
Don't worry everyone, IBD says it's a hoax, so he faked it. Probably committed suicide to help China lie about Covid. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52897017

Doctors are not liars or cowards across the board. It's an absurd conspiracy theory. But then most are.
Edited on 03-06-2020 13:27
03-06-2020 16:34
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1217)
IBdaMann wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:
keepit wrote:
I read 5 books on climate change so i have some knowledge.

Did any of those books happen to offer up a valid definition for "climate change"?

Great question. Your account has been credited.

.

Thank you.

I'm now carrying quite a few of these suckers around, and my wings are getting rather heavy from all the "winning"... Anything I can redeem these points for? Otherwise, I'll have to expand my nest to make room for all of them...

Edited on 03-06-2020 16:36
03-06-2020 19:20
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7479)
gfm7175 wrote:I'm now carrying quite a few of these suckers around, and my wings are getting rather heavy from all the "winning"... Anything I can redeem these points for?

Sure, the redemption catalog is extensive. What would you like and how many points are you looking to spend?

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
03-06-2020 19:49
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1217)
IBdaMann wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:I'm now carrying quite a few of these suckers around, and my wings are getting rather heavy from all the "winning"... Anything I can redeem these points for?

Sure, the redemption catalog is extensive. What would you like and how many points are you looking to spend?

.


I want to redeem however many bonus points I happen to have towards paying off the debt for my carbon sins that I drop onto people's vehicles.
03-06-2020 21:21
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13323)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
Doctors are correctly writing "Death *WITH* COVID-19" and that is not lying. No doctor is being told to write "Death *BY* COVID-19"
You just made that up IBD. I actually took the trouble to find the actual instructions earlier:
tmiddles wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:...did you bother to read the footnotes, under the first graph? The second on, is pretty much as posted earlier, where any death, that had any possible relation to Covid-19, ....

Here are the guidelines from the CDC for you Harvey as it is an interesting question:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/icd/COVID-19-guidelines-final.pdf

"c) Acute respiratory illness due to COVID-19
(i) Pneumonia
For a pneumonia case confirmed as due to the 2019 novel coronavirus (COVID-19),
assign codes U07.1, COVID-19, ..."

So the code is "U07.1" for respritory distress death that the doctor actually think is cause by Covid-19 in a patient that has the virus.

You can see the death count for "U07.1" here:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

The leading causes of death in the country are heart disease and cancer. So no, people who die from heart attacks or cancer, even if they do test positive for Covid-19, would not get code "U07.1" for respritory distress death.

The US total for COVID-19 "U07.1" respritory distress deaths specifically is 62,515. In New York it is 15,757. That is 70% of the 22,619 that is reported.
So IBD what do you imagine the patients coded with U07.1 are actually dying of? The usually leading causes of death? Heart Disease mistaken for pneumonia perhaps?
Don't worry everyone, IBD says it's a hoax, so he faked it. Probably committed suicide to help China lie about Covid. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52897017

Doctors are not liars or cowards across the board. It's an absurd conspiracy theory. But then most are.

No, but it seems quite a few coroners are. They work for the government, you see.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
03-06-2020 23:15
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7479)
gfm7175 wrote:I want to redeem however many bonus points I happen to have towards paying off the debt for my carbon sins that I drop onto people's vehicles.

Done! Great news, the University of Wisconsin is holding a promotion on their official personal Global Warming reduction kits. Shipping is covered as well.

One is on its way to you. Be sure to rate the product BEFORE you use it.
Attached image:

04-06-2020 00:56
gfm7175Profile picture★★★★☆
(1217)
IBdaMann wrote:
gfm7175 wrote:I want to redeem however many bonus points I happen to have towards paying off the debt for my carbon sins that I drop onto people's vehicles.

Done! Great news, the University of Wisconsin is holding a promotion on their official personal Global Warming reduction kits. Shipping is covered as well.

One is on its way to you. Be sure to rate the product BEFORE you use it.

I decided to let a light-blue Prius driver test it out first. They didn't provide me with a rating afterwards for some reason, however I would give it a 10/10!


Thanks for the product!
04-06-2020 06:17
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2430)
The doctors and coroners aren't lying at all. Might be a little lazy and incompetent at times. It takes a lot of hours of hard work, to find the precise cause of death, even then it could have been several failures, just pick one. No Medical Examiner's office can expend the resources needed, to thoroughly examine each, and every dead body, pandemic, or just normal times. The government and CDC set in place guidelines for reporting deaths, since it's not really that important to know the precise cause, in most cases. Their dead, knowing the details, isn't going to bring them back to life. We already know there is a pandemic, and lots of people dying of respiratory distress, or related issue, because of pre-existing conditions. The patients landed in the hospital, because of an infection. Regardless of if it was a heart attack, stroke, or some other organ failure. Being infected, was likely what accelerated the condition. People are generally lazy, and the guideline they are handed, just make it simpler to avoid work. They have a huge stack of cases to review, they guidelines let them focus on the more pressing issues. There are still plenty of non-Covid-19 deaths to work on too.
17-06-2020 00:58
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7479)
tgoebbles wrote:Doctors are not liars or cowards across the board. It's an absurd conspiracy theory. But then most are.

I have bad news. George Floyd's death was a "COVID death." What's all this talk about the police being responsible?

It's in the ME's report. Sorry.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-06-2020 02:22
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2430)
IBdaMann wrote:
tgoebbles wrote:Doctors are not liars or cowards across the board. It's an absurd conspiracy theory. But then most are.

I have bad news. George Floyd's death was a "COVID death." What's all this talk about the police being responsible?

It's in the ME's report. Sorry.

.


Tested positive in April, should have been over it. If he actually had it. Heard that some of those bad test kits, are still being used.
17-06-2020 02:36
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7479)
HarveyH55 wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
tgoebbles wrote:Doctors are not liars or cowards across the board. It's an absurd conspiracy theory. But then most are.

I have bad news. George Floyd's death was a "COVID death." What's all this talk about the police being responsible?

It's in the ME's report. Sorry.

.


Tested positive in April, should have been over it. If he actually had it. Heard that some of those bad test kits, are still being used.


I'm with you, but all MEs have been instructed to note all deaths *WITH* COVID so the deaths can be classified as "COVID deaths" and all lumped together with COVID-19 being responsible. This is why it was noted in George Floyd's case. All deaths are required to have such an annotation (with/without COVID symptoms).

I complained bitterly about this practice in this forum. tgoebbles of course mocked me in defense of this practice.

Well, it turns out that George Floyd is a COVID death by the standard prevailing definition that he defends. We therefore must pardon/absolve Chauvin of any wrongdoing ... or at least tgoebbles must.

.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
17-06-2020 03:16
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13323)
HarveyH55 wrote:
The doctors and coroners aren't lying at all. Might be a little lazy and incompetent at times. It takes a lot of hours of hard work, to find the precise cause of death, even then it could have been several failures, just pick one. No Medical Examiner's office can expend the resources needed, to thoroughly examine each, and every dead body, pandemic, or just normal times. The government and CDC set in place guidelines for reporting deaths, since it's not really that important to know the precise cause, in most cases. Their dead, knowing the details, isn't going to bring them back to life. We already know there is a pandemic, and lots of people dying of respiratory distress, or related issue, because of pre-existing conditions. The patients landed in the hospital, because of an infection. Regardless of if it was a heart attack, stroke, or some other organ failure. Being infected, was likely what accelerated the condition. People are generally lazy, and the guideline they are handed, just make it simpler to avoid work. They have a huge stack of cases to review, they guidelines let them focus on the more pressing issues. There are still plenty of non-Covid-19 deaths to work on too.


Coroners are lying. They are being prosecuted for it too. Falsifying death certificates is a felony in some States.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
05-09-2020 07:37
GasGuzzlerProfile picture★★★★☆
(1811)
tmiddles wrote:
What I've been hoping to find has finally appeared: A true A/B test on Covid response.
FORBES: Sweden's Gamble On Coronavirus: Has It Paid Off?

Sweden decided to not lockdown/stay-at-home and go for herd immunity. Ooops!


Keepit wrote:Sweden made a bad mistake betting on herd immunity even if herd immunity proves to be effective, which it may not.. Herd immunity is defined as approximately 70% of the people being immune. Sweden is at 20% right now. A lot of people are going to die on the way to 70% immunity (herd immunity). They should regroup on that decision.


Well, it would seem that some solid results are in. I don't think any covid death numbers are worth a squirt of piss, but case numbers may hold SOME weight.

I went searching for a state that had the same population density as Sweden for comparison and I came up with Mississippi. I wanted to compare the stats and the results were a bit eye popping.

Sweden population density-64 people per sq mile.
Mississippi population density-63.7 people per sq mile.

Sweden covid lockdown-virtually none, bars restaurants, schools open
Mississippi covid lockdown-full stay at home through May

Sweden mask mandate-none
Mississippi mask mandate-yes, in all public places punishable by $500 fine/6 months in jail.

Sweden total population-10 million
Mississippi total population-2.97 million

The eye poppers....

Sweden covid cases per million residents-8,406
Mississippi covid cases per million residents-28,876

Sweden total cases-84,985
Mississippi total cases-85,939

So Sweden and Mississippi are nearly identical in pop density and nearly opposite in their approach to covid. Sweden is the clear winner in my opinion.

Masks won't stop the virus and 6 feet won't either. Can we wise up and open up now please?


All the time the base and surface are at equal temperature as the equilibrium graduates to establish the temperature development--Pete Rogers
Edited on 05-09-2020 08:02
05-09-2020 08:21
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3376)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Sweden population density-64 people per sq mile.
Mississippi population density-63.7 people per sq mile.

You're right GG. The US has done poorly.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-maps-and-cases/

China has 6 cases per 100K people, <1 death (certainly a questionable source)

The US has 1,895, and 57 deaths per 100k

Sweden 835 / 57 (same as the US)

Finland 149 / 6
Norway 211 / 5
Denmark 303 / 11
These last 4 countries are apples to apples. Sweden didn't lock down, the other 3 did. There is no reason I can think of to doubt the reporting by these 4 countries.

Also note the cases/deaths difference between sweden and the US. I think the most reliable number is the deaths number.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing

Sweden has performed just 1.2 tests per thousand while the US has done 2.03 tests per thousand. Lines up pretty well with the 835 to 1895 difference with the same death rate.

Just consider for a moment if we'd managed to do what Finland/Norway/Denmark did?
05-09-2020 09:12
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7479)
GasGuzzler wrote:Well, it would seem that some solid results are in. I don't think any covid death numbers are worth a squirt of piss, but case numbers may hold SOME weight.

I went searching for a state that had the same population density as Sweden for comparison and I came up with Mississippi. I wanted to compare the stats and the results were a bit eye popping.

Sweden population density-64 people per sq mile.
Mississippi population density-63.7 people per sq mile.

Sweden covid lockdown-virtually none, bars restaurants, schools open
Mississippi covid lockdown-full stay at home through May

Sweden mask mandate-none
Mississippi mask mandate-yes, in all public places punishable by $500 fine/6 months in jail.

Sweden total population-10 million
Mississippi total population-2.97 million

The eye poppers....

Sweden covid cases per million residents-8,406
Mississippi covid cases per million residents-28,876

Sweden total cases-84,985
Mississippi total cases-85,939

So Sweden and Mississippi are nearly identical in pop density and nearly opposite in their approach to covid. Sweden is the clear winner in my opinion.

Masks won't stop the virus and 6 feet won't either. Can we wise up and open up now please?

Great numbers.

I used your figures in the Debunked: BFE95 Facemasks Help

Thank you. Your account is being credited.
Attached image:

05-09-2020 09:13
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13323)
tmiddles wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Sweden population density-64 people per sq mile.
Mississippi population density-63.7 people per sq mile.

...deleted lame cop out IAW tmiddles ordinance #1...


Mantras 15c...16b...16c...

No argument presented. Wandering off topic. False equivalencies. Pivot fallacy. Contextomy fallacies.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
05-09-2020 19:01
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2430)
It's just a damn cold virus, really doesn't matter how you want to politically spin the numbers. It's here to stay, wear your face-bra, hide in your basement, if you need to. Over 2.5 million people die in America, every year, not including abortions. Deaths listed as possibly related to Covid-19, is about 180,000, 6-7% (? quick mental calculation). Of course, there are 3 more months of bodies piling up, and covid deaths are only preliminary numbers. Somebody still needs to go through all those reports, and pull out all the gunshot and car accident fatalities. Clearly, covid didn't pull the trigger, or crash the car. Did covid cause grandma to die of her third major stroke, or was it just something that's been circulating in her for a while? I don't really see a problem, in how most deaths are report, since they will be reviewed later, after the pandemic, and corrected. The covid tags it for future review. It's the way these death reports are taken out of context, and used for political purposes, and media entertainment. The heath department is trying to protect people first, then will asses the damage, priorities... The governments are just to trusting of the expert opinions, on what actions they are willing to accept as necessary. After the first month, it was very clear, that old people, and those seriously medically messed up, from poor lifestyle choices were at high risk, while over 95% of the population was going to get through infection just fine, like any other cold virus. Those that are medically beyond repair, and just hanging by prescription drugs, should have been sheltered, quarantined, or allowed to finish it, if they chose to ignore the threat. No reason to punish the rest of the population, for making heathy choices.
05-09-2020 20:01
keepit
★★★★☆
(1699)
Tmid,
Comparing sweden to comparable countries was a good point. I'm glad someone did. Mississippi has been one of the least fortunate states in the us and the us has been one of the least fortunate countries in the world regarding covid.
05-09-2020 22:14
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7479)
keepit wrote:the us and the us has been one of the least fortunate countries in the world regarding covid.

In what deluded corner of your safe-space are you aimlessly wandering? Nowhere in the US has there been any problem other than gullibles wearing facemasks at the orders of a tyrannical government and a CDC-mandated phony COVID-death reporting scam.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-09-2020 22:38
keepit
★★★★☆
(1699)
IBD,
??
Edited on 05-09-2020 22:51
05-09-2020 23:03
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(7479)
keepit wrote: IBD, ??

!!


.


A Spaghetti strainer with the faucet running, retains water- tmiddles

Clouds don't trap heat. Clouds block cold. - Spongy Iris

Printing dollars to pay debt doesn't increase the number of dollars. - keepit

If Venus were a black body it would have a much much lower temperature than what we found there.- tmiddles

Ah the "Valid Data" myth of ITN/IBD. - tmiddles

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
05-09-2020 23:34
HarveyH55
★★★★★
(2430)
Co-morbid people, are people who narrowly escaped a box and a plot, or a burning and urning. Had they not seen a doctor, gotten on daily meds, and a strict lifestyle change, they would be dead, just like many of the 2.5 million Americans dying ever year, not including abortions. I've minor events in these peoples lives, can kill them, like catching a cold... Medical miracles are usually just a patch job, they don't cure you, you aren't going to heal, and be just as good as before. They can just do enough to keep you breathing, a little while longer, mostly functioning normally. When the co-morbid people have an accident, or get infected, rushed to the emergency room, they aren't seeing their regular doctors, who have a patient history to thumb through. The emergency room doctors are going to treat you quickly, based on what little information they have on hand, and the seriousness if the issue at hand. Drugs and medications complicate treatment considerably. They need to know what you took, when you took it, and how much. This isn't always clear on the charts or prescription bottles. Once a day, with a meal, doesn't really make clear, which meal, or time of day. Charts don't list OTC medications, or recreational meds either. Emergency treatment requires drugs, which often interact with medications. Serious reactions accrue, when the daily meds were recently taken. Doesn't help, if the emergency room is already packed with similar individuals, with similar problems, that need quick treatment. Each case is going to be unique, as there is no good way to determine which meds are being used, and which are going to be safe to use, to save a life.
06-09-2020 21:06
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(13323)
keepit wrote:
Tmid,
Comparing sweden to comparable countries was a good point. I'm glad someone did. Mississippi has been one of the least fortunate states in the us and the us has been one of the least fortunate countries in the world regarding covid.


Random numbers. Argument from randU fallacy. You are making shit up.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit
15-09-2020 03:51
tmiddlesProfile picture★★★★★
(3376)
keepit wrote:
Tmid,
Comparing sweden to comparable countries was a good point. I'm glad someone did. Mississippi has been one of the least fortunate states in the us and the us has been one of the least fortunate countries in the world regarding covid.

This topic presents an outstanding parallel to environmental and other issues where science plays a big roll.

You can believe the world if Flat with the strategy employed by a lot of people on this issues. It goes like this:
1- Absurd premise is presented
2- A "VILLIAN" power enough to perpetrate a great hoax is added to that story
3- Evidence contradicts the premise
4- It's claimed the "VILLIAN", with their great power, manufactured the evidence.

It will work for anything.
Pizza Gate
Covid Denial
Flat Earth
Most of what Alex Jones says.

It's bullet proof because it is insane from the beginning.

There is no analysis of Data because the Data is forged by great villains. There is really nothing at all. But you don't need anything when an all powerful villain can manipulate reality.

What's extra funny hear is it's acknowledged that POTUS is the single most powerful position in the world. Yes somehow impotent here.

The conspiracy formula, ironically, depends on assuming a prone position as the advocate for it.
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