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WHO Knows


WHO Knows29-12-2021 20:35
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
This news is almost 6 months old now, but I don't think most people in here got the memo yet...

The World Health Organization (WHO) has updated its patient care guidelines to include interleukin-6 receptor blockers, a class of medicines that are lifesaving in patients who are severely or critically ill with COVID-19, especially when administered alongside corticosteroids.

These were the findings from a prospective and a living network meta-analysis initiated by WHO, the largest such analysis on the drugs to date. Data from over 10 000 patients enrolled in 27 clinical trials were considered.

These are the first drugs found to be effective against COVID-19 since corticosteroids were recommended by WHO in September 2020.

Patients severely or critically ill with COVID-19 often suffer from an overreaction of the immune system, which can be very harmful to the patient's health. Interleukin-6 blocking drugs – tocilizumab and sarilumab – act to suppress this overreaction.

The prospective and living network meta-analyses showed that in severely or critically ill patients, administering these drugs reduce the odds of death by 13%, compared to standard care. This means that there will be 15 fewer deaths per thousand patients, and as many as 28 fewer deaths for every thousand critically ill patients. The odds of mechanical ventilation among severe and critical patients are reduced by 28%, compared with standard care. This translates to 23 fewer patients out of a thousand needing mechanical ventilation.


https://www.who.int/news/item/06-07-2021-who-recommends-life-saving-interleukin-6-receptor-blockers-for-covid-19-and-urges-producers-to-join-efforts-to-rapidly-increase-access



Edited on 29-12-2021 20:36
30-12-2021 00:44
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
There's also this;
The primary results indicate that all-cause mortality was reduced in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 and treated with IL-6ra compared with those treated with placebo or usual care. By day 28 after randomization, 1407 deaths occurred among 6449 patients randomized to receive IL-6 antagonists and 1158 deaths occurred among 4481 patients randomized to usual care or placebo (summary odds ratio [OR], 0.86 [95% CI, 0.79-0.95]; P = .003 based on a fixed-effects meta-analysis).
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2781881

What the Il-6 receptor blocker does is to not allow the Il-6 receptor to interact with the Il-6 cykotine which regulates cell growth and immune responses. Basically an unregulated response allows the body to better fight and recover from serious infections.
30-12-2021 01:22
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
James___ wrote:
There's also this;
The primary results indicate that all-cause mortality was reduced in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 and treated with IL-6ra compared with those treated with placebo or usual care. By day 28 after randomization, 1407 deaths occurred among 6449 patients randomized to receive IL-6 antagonists and 1158 deaths occurred among 4481 patients randomized to usual care or placebo (summary odds ratio [OR], 0.86 [95% CI, 0.79-0.95]; P = .003 based on a fixed-effects meta-analysis).
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2781881

What the Il-6 receptor blocker does is to not allow the Il-6 receptor to interact with the Il-6 cykotine which regulates cell growth and immune responses. Basically an unregulated response allows the body to better fight and recover from serious infections.


Just for the sake of clarifying the key point your study cited:

Death rate of COVID 19 hospitalized patients in study after 28 days

1158 ÷ 4481 = 26% (no IL-6 blocker used)

1407 ÷ 6449 = 22% (IL-6 blocker used)

Evidence indicates IL-6 blockers really do save lives of critically ill patients recovering from COVID 19, because the greatest danger from COVID 19 is an over-reactive immune response.



Edited on 30-12-2021 01:30
30-12-2021 02:00
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
Spongy Iris wrote:
James___ wrote:
There's also this;
The primary results indicate that all-cause mortality was reduced in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 and treated with IL-6ra compared with those treated with placebo or usual care. By day 28 after randomization, 1407 deaths occurred among 6449 patients randomized to receive IL-6 antagonists and 1158 deaths occurred among 4481 patients randomized to usual care or placebo (summary odds ratio [OR], 0.86 [95% CI, 0.79-0.95]; P = .003 based on a fixed-effects meta-analysis).
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2781881

What the Il-6 receptor blocker does is to not allow the Il-6 receptor to interact with the Il-6 cykotine which regulates cell growth and immune responses. Basically an unregulated response allows the body to better fight and recover from serious infections.


Just for the sake of clarifying the key point your study cited:

Death rate of COVID 19 hospitalized patients in study after 28 days

1158 ÷ 4481 = 26% (no IL-6 blocker used)

1407 ÷ 6449 = 22% (IL-6 blocker used)

Evidence indicates IL-6 blockers really do save lives of critically ill patients recovering from COVID 19, because the greatest danger from COVID 19 is an over-reactive immune response.



If you must but these guys won't understand it. Critically ill patients without the body's own autoimmune system being limited by Il-6 receptors and cytokines.
This might allow for the body to attack itself while its ability to replace damaged cells might have an exponential growth rate similar to cancer. I seriously doubt these guys know that with cancer, the tail of its DNA is shortened so its growth and reproduction increase.
And with the survival rate being improved, it seems to be a gamble that is worth taking.
Edited on 30-12-2021 02:10
30-12-2021 03:17
Spongy Iris
★★★☆☆
(900)
James___ wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
James___ wrote:
There's also this;
The primary results indicate that all-cause mortality was reduced in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 and treated with IL-6ra compared with those treated with placebo or usual care. By day 28 after randomization, 1407 deaths occurred among 6449 patients randomized to receive IL-6 antagonists and 1158 deaths occurred among 4481 patients randomized to usual care or placebo (summary odds ratio [OR], 0.86 [95% CI, 0.79-0.95]; P = .003 based on a fixed-effects meta-analysis).
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2781881

What the Il-6 receptor blocker does is to not allow the Il-6 receptor to interact with the Il-6 cykotine which regulates cell growth and immune responses. Basically an unregulated response allows the body to better fight and recover from serious infections.


Just for the sake of clarifying the key point your study cited:

Death rate of COVID 19 hospitalized patients in study after 28 days

1158 ÷ 4481 = 26% (no IL-6 blocker used)

1407 ÷ 6449 = 22% (IL-6 blocker used)

Evidence indicates IL-6 blockers really do save lives of critically ill patients recovering from COVID 19, because the greatest danger from COVID 19 is an over-reactive immune response.



If you must but these guys won't understand it. Critically ill patients without the body's own autoimmune system being limited by Il-6 receptors and cytokines.
This might allow for the body to attack itself while its ability to replace damaged cells might have an exponential growth rate similar to cancer. I seriously doubt these guys know that with cancer, the tail of its DNA is shortened so its growth and reproduction increase.
And with the survival rate being improved, it seems to be a gamble that is worth taking.


Seems like the timing of the drug administration is important.

Severe inflammatory symptoms usually occur late after infection.

If the drug is administered after the infection has mostly run its course, and while inflammatory symptoms are most severe, that might be the optimal time, to target inflammation, at the expense of body's anti viral abilities.


30-12-2021 03:38
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
Spongy Iris wrote:
James___ wrote:
Spongy Iris wrote:
James___ wrote:
There's also this;
The primary results indicate that all-cause mortality was reduced in patients hospitalized for COVID-19 and treated with IL-6ra compared with those treated with placebo or usual care. By day 28 after randomization, 1407 deaths occurred among 6449 patients randomized to receive IL-6 antagonists and 1158 deaths occurred among 4481 patients randomized to usual care or placebo (summary odds ratio [OR], 0.86 [95% CI, 0.79-0.95]; P = .003 based on a fixed-effects meta-analysis).
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2781881

What the Il-6 receptor blocker does is to not allow the Il-6 receptor to interact with the Il-6 cykotine which regulates cell growth and immune responses. Basically an unregulated response allows the body to better fight and recover from serious infections.


Just for the sake of clarifying the key point your study cited:

Death rate of COVID 19 hospitalized patients in study after 28 days

1158 ÷ 4481 = 26% (no IL-6 blocker used)

1407 ÷ 6449 = 22% (IL-6 blocker used)

Evidence indicates IL-6 blockers really do save lives of critically ill patients recovering from COVID 19, because the greatest danger from COVID 19 is an over-reactive immune response.



If you must but these guys won't understand it. Critically ill patients without the body's own autoimmune system being limited by Il-6 receptors and cytokines.
This might allow for the body to attack itself while its ability to replace damaged cells might have an exponential growth rate similar to cancer. I seriously doubt these guys know that with cancer, the tail of its DNA is shortened so its growth and reproduction increase.
And with the survival rate being improved, it seems to be a gamble that is worth taking.


Seems like the timing of the drug administration is important.

Severe inflammatory symptoms usually occur late after infection.

If the drug is administered after the infection has mostly run its course, and while inflammatory symptoms are most severe, that might be the optimal time, to target inflammation, at the expense of body's anti viral abilities.



With Il-6 (iL-6) inhibitors, it's basically a last ditch effort to save the patient.
It's possible that by increasing inflammation that the body can flush out the damaged cells. With compartment syndrome in a muscle, it is cut along the flow of blood (length of the muscle) for that reason.
30-12-2021 03:58
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3908)
The ICU patient isn't just given one drug, and done. The doctors are injecting everything in the medicine cabinet, and doing anything they can think of to reduce serious symptoms. Not exactly the place to get an accurate picture of the effectiveness of a single drug.
30-12-2021 04:08
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10662)
HarveyH55 wrote:The ICU patient isn't just given one drug, and done. The doctors are injecting everything in the medicine cabinet, and doing anything they can think of to reduce serious symptoms. Not exactly the place to get an accurate picture of the effectiveness of a single drug.

Not only this, but every person going into the ICU is a unique case that was not somehow filtered out by, or matched against, any criteria to ensure conformance to any control group. No ICU patient is barred from the ICU based on the reason for being in the ICU.
30-12-2021 04:14
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
IBdaMann wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:The ICU patient isn't just given one drug, and done. The doctors are injecting everything in the medicine cabinet, and doing anything they can think of to reduce serious symptoms. Not exactly the place to get an accurate picture of the effectiveness of a single drug.

Not only this, but every person going into the ICU is a unique case that was not somehow filtered out by, or matched against, any criteria to ensure conformance to any control group. No ICU patient is barred from the ICU based on the reason for being in the ICU.



The care they are being given is quite specific. With any advanced condition because of the novel corona virus and its variants, what they can do is limited.
This is why Il-6 inhibitors and their effects can be monitored.
In this instance causation can be related to causality. This is what allows healthcare professionals to better improve care to those most at risk.
30-12-2021 08:33
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3908)
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:The ICU patient isn't just given one drug, and done. The doctors are injecting everything in the medicine cabinet, and doing anything they can think of to reduce serious symptoms. Not exactly the place to get an accurate picture of the effectiveness of a single drug.

Not only this, but every person going into the ICU is a unique case that was not somehow filtered out by, or matched against, any criteria to ensure conformance to any control group. No ICU patient is barred from the ICU based on the reason for being in the ICU.



The care they are being given is quite specific. With any advanced condition because of the novel corona virus and its variants, what they can do is limited.
This is why Il-6 inhibitors and their effects can be monitored.
In this instance causation can be related to causality. This is what allows healthcare professionals to better improve care to those most at risk.


Almost all severe cases of covid, that need the ICU treatment, were already on an assortment of medications for chronic health issues. The ICU treatments are risk taking measures. Anything goes, to keep the patient stable, and alive. That's the number one priority. They can work on any damage done later, if the patient survives the ordeal.

You should know that doctors can't make you perfect, just help you remain functional. They'll remove organs, and hand you a prescription to help compensate for your loss.

The ICU isn't concerned about doing damage, just keeping you alive, and hoping they can repair or compensate for the damage done. You really didn't have much choice, since you would likely have died, had they not even tried. It's not like they sit around and discuss options, debate treatments. They follow their instincts and best guesses, basically experiment. You were a casket-case before going in, they are only expected to attempt to save your miserable life.
30-12-2021 12:43
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
HarveyH55 wrote:
The ICU patient isn't just given one drug, and done. The doctors are injecting everything in the medicine cabinet, and doing anything they can think of to reduce serious symptoms. Not exactly the place to get an accurate picture of the effectiveness of a single drug.

They may not receive a drug at all. It depends on why they are in the ICU.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
30-12-2021 12:43
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(737)
The ICU isn't concerned about doing damage, just keeping you alive, and hoping they can repair or compensate for the damage done. You really didn't have much choice, since you would likely have died, had they not even tried. It's not like they sit around and discuss options, debate treatments. They follow their instincts and best guesses, basically experiment. You were a casket-case before going in, they are only expected to attempt to save your miserable life.


Completely agree. If you end up in ICU from a runny nose then you most probably are among those who are not lucky with the health. It is a miracle if you survive the ventilator( only about 10-25% recover from ventilator). Remdesivir füks up your kidneys.
I am not sure about the drugs mentioned in the WHO report but most probably those are snake oils.
There are also bad persons among doctors and nurses. They inject patients full of coctail and watch them to fade away. Finishing those old folks is a win-win for the goverment - less mouths to feed from the goverment budget and at the same time adding fuel to the corona scam.
30-12-2021 12:45
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:The ICU patient isn't just given one drug, and done. The doctors are injecting everything in the medicine cabinet, and doing anything they can think of to reduce serious symptoms. Not exactly the place to get an accurate picture of the effectiveness of a single drug.

Not only this, but every person going into the ICU is a unique case that was not somehow filtered out by, or matched against, any criteria to ensure conformance to any control group. No ICU patient is barred from the ICU based on the reason for being in the ICU.



The care they are being given is quite specific. With any advanced condition because of the novel corona virus and its variants, what they can do is limited.
This is why Il-6 inhibitors and their effects can be monitored.
In this instance causation can be related to causality. This is what allows healthcare professionals to better improve care to those most at risk.


Almost all severe cases of covid, that need the ICU treatment, were already on an assortment of medications for chronic health issues. The ICU treatments are risk taking measures. Anything goes, to keep the patient stable, and alive. That's the number one priority. They can work on any damage done later, if the patient survives the ordeal.

You should know that doctors can't make you perfect, just help you remain functional. They'll remove organs, and hand you a prescription to help compensate for your loss.

The ICU isn't concerned about doing damage, just keeping you alive, and hoping they can repair or compensate for the damage done. You really didn't have much choice, since you would likely have died, had they not even tried. It's not like they sit around and discuss options, debate treatments. They follow their instincts and best guesses, basically experiment. You were a casket-case before going in, they are only expected to attempt to save your miserable life.


Covid19 does not require ICU treatment. Covid19 does not kill either.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
30-12-2021 13:06
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(737)
Covid19 does not require ICU treatment. Covid19 does not kill either.


Hospital mistreatments are in top 3 causes of deaths nowadays. People should stay away from hospitals as much as possible but instead they run to them like crazy with a runny nose and sore throat. No wander that they get mistreated by bad medical staff who enjoy injecting coctails into the bodies of patients and looking how they slowly fade away. The goverment is happy because there will be less mouths to feed from their budget. At the same time the number of deaths from corona will rise which would continue to perpetuate the corona scam further and further.
30-12-2021 16:27
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(10662)
James___ wrote:The care they are being given is quite specific.

This is true for all patients in all ICUs. ICUs don't use any "generic care procedure."

James___ wrote:With any advanced condition because of the novel corona virus and its variants, what they can do is limited.

... except that there is nothing novel about COVID and no one is in an ICU because of having COVID. COVID gets people put into ... their homes ... and disallowed from going into work.

Announcement: Based only on the hype in the fake news about "surging numbers of cases" regarding Omicron and Delta, everybody in my office has been ordered to work from home for roughly the next two weeks.

James___ wrote: This is why Il-6 inhibitors and their effects can be monitored.

I thought that the reason drugs and their effects could be monitored was because humans happen to be able to focus on observing the drugs and their effects ... and are able to document what they notice. Am I missing something?

James___ wrote: In this instance causation can be related to causality.

What is the specific relationship you are suggesting?

James___ wrote: This is what allows healthcare professionals to better improve care to those most at risk.

Help me out here. You started your sentence with the word "This." What do you mean by it? What is its antecedent?
30-12-2021 22:16
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
Xadoman wrote:
Covid19 does not require ICU treatment. Covid19 does not kill either.


Hospital mistreatments are in top 3 causes of deaths nowadays. People should stay away from hospitals as much as possible but instead they run to them like crazy with a runny nose and sore throat. No wander that they get mistreated by bad medical staff who enjoy injecting coctails into the bodies of patients and looking how they slowly fade away. The goverment is happy because there will be less mouths to feed from their budget. At the same time the number of deaths from corona will rise which would continue to perpetuate the corona scam further and further.


Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
31-12-2021 12:34
Xadoman
★★★☆☆
(737)
Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.
31-12-2021 16:28
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
Xadoman wrote:
Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.



A lot of Americans don't understand or maybe don't want to know that healthcare can be improved while lowering costs. And this could help other countries as well. In the U.S., the cost of healthcare per capita is the highest in the world. And with this, of the top 20 countries, the U.S. might be the only country without universal healthcare coverage. And when going to #4 and lower on the list, healthcare cost per capita is about 2/3rds that of the U.S.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/health_spending_per_capita/
31-12-2021 18:58
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3908)
Xadoman wrote:
Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.


Usually, most people wait too long to seek medical attention. Each patient is a little different. Not everyone response the same to medications. There isn't really a universal dose. They give a standard dose, and adjust as needed. Lawyers are pretty good at hindsight, as well as their 'medical experts', most no longer practice medicine... Most lawsuits get settled outside of court. Better to call it an error, and pay. Than to go through the courts and publicity nightmare.
31-12-2021 19:03
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3908)
James___ wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.



A lot of Americans don't understand or maybe don't want to know that healthcare can be improved while lowering costs. And this could help other countries as well. In the U.S., the cost of healthcare per capita is the highest in the world. And with this, of the top 20 countries, the U.S. might be the only country without universal healthcare coverage. And when going to #4 and lower on the list, healthcare cost per capita is about 2/3rds that of the U.S.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/health_spending_per_capita/


We are also a lawsuit happy country, which also drives up the cost... Universal healthcare usually means long wait to see a doctor... They give the quick and cheapest treatment options.
31-12-2021 19:45
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.



A lot of Americans don't understand or maybe don't want to know that healthcare can be improved while lowering costs. And this could help other countries as well. In the U.S., the cost of healthcare per capita is the highest in the world. And with this, of the top 20 countries, the U.S. might be the only country without universal healthcare coverage. And when going to #4 and lower on the list, healthcare cost per capita is about 2/3rds that of the U.S.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/health_spending_per_capita/


We are also a lawsuit happy country, which also drives up the cost... Universal healthcare usually means long wait to see a doctor... They give the quick and cheapest treatment options.



Can't you do better than this Harvey? The U.S. is a capitalist country. That is why people like you love it. And since the U.S. has the highest cost of healthcare per capita in the world, it shows that capitalism works. Besides, insurance pays for lawsuits and not the doctors and hospitals. It's just another cost of doing business in a capitalist country.
And the next few posts will be about what countries with socialist healthcare are doing.

Attached image:

31-12-2021 19:48
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
Germany has universal healthcare.....
Attached image:

31-12-2021 19:56
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
France has the #1 rated healthcare system in the world. What that socialist country is doing.......
Attached image:

31-12-2021 20:17
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
Just not sure on this one Harvey but saying whatever the U.S. does makes it better than everybody else, I think this is where Einstein would say that's taking nationalism to the extreme but what did he know?
Famous words in history, All Hail Caesar then it was Heil Hitler and now it's Hail Trump. Notice a pattern? Heil and hail are used the same way. And the saying in the U.S. is "When in Rome, do as the Romans do".
Myself, I'll most likely move to another country so I can pursue opportunity. And if I create jobs there then I'll be called a traitor. Yet what can I do in the U.S.? Suffer. What other countries show is that universal healthcare coverage improves healthcare while lowering costs. And as you said, if I sue doctors over mistakes they made, then I am the problem.
Maybe its America's wealth that is preventing its people from getting along with each other? It's known that Rome fell because of exploitation. When they could've worked with people they chose to make enemies of them instead.
31-12-2021 21:46
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
Xadoman wrote:
Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.


Ah. You've been reading fiction passed off as news again.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
31-12-2021 21:47
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
James___ wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.



A lot of Americans don't understand or maybe don't want to know that healthcare can be improved while lowering costs. And this could help other countries as well. In the U.S., the cost of healthcare per capita is the highest in the world. And with this, of the top 20 countries, the U.S. might be the only country without universal healthcare coverage. And when going to #4 and lower on the list, healthcare cost per capita is about 2/3rds that of the U.S.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/health_spending_per_capita/

Another piece of fiction.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
31-12-2021 21:49
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
James___ wrote:
France has the #1 rated healthcare system in the world. What that socialist country is doing.......

There is no such thing as a 'socialist country'. Socialism is not a form of government.

Universal healthcare isn't free. TANSTAAFL.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
31-12-2021 21:50
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
James___ wrote:
Just not sure on this one Harvey but saying whatever the U.S. does makes it better than everybody else, I think this is where Einstein would say that's taking nationalism to the extreme but what did he know?
Famous words in history, All Hail Caesar then it was Heil Hitler and now it's Hail Trump. Notice a pattern? Heil and hail are used the same way. And the saying in the U.S. is "When in Rome, do as the Romans do".
Myself, I'll most likely move to another country so I can pursue opportunity. And if I create jobs there then I'll be called a traitor. Yet what can I do in the U.S.? Suffer. What other countries show is that universal healthcare coverage improves healthcare while lowering costs. And as you said, if I sue doctors over mistakes they made, then I am the problem.
Maybe its America's wealth that is preventing its people from getting along with each other? It's known that Rome fell because of exploitation. When they could've worked with people they chose to make enemies of them instead.

So leave. You obviously don't like America. I'll warn you though, that since all you do is find problems in your life, it won't be any better anywhere else.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
Edited on 31-12-2021 21:51
31-12-2021 22:03
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Just not sure on this one Harvey but saying whatever the U.S. does makes it better than everybody else, I think this is where Einstein would say that's taking nationalism to the extreme but what did he know?
Famous words in history, All Hail Caesar then it was Heil Hitler and now it's Hail Trump. Notice a pattern? Heil and hail are used the same way. And the saying in the U.S. is "When in Rome, do as the Romans do".
Myself, I'll most likely move to another country so I can pursue opportunity. And if I create jobs there then I'll be called a traitor. Yet what can I do in the U.S.? Suffer. What other countries show is that universal healthcare coverage improves healthcare while lowering costs. And as you said, if I sue doctors over mistakes they made, then I am the problem.
Maybe its America's wealth that is preventing its people from getting along with each other? It's known that Rome fell because of exploitation. When they could've worked with people they chose to make enemies of them instead.

So leave. You obviously don't like America. I'll warn you though, that since all you do is find problems in your life, it won't be any better anywhere else.



Thanks for your support ITN. I think other countries would like the idea of someone wanting to create jobs. And as you so kindly mentioned, Americans don't like working for the life they enjoy.
31-12-2021 23:24
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
p.s., if I lived here, would I have to worry about being hit by a motorist?
And since I'd like to try to make a better wind turbine, would it matter that Spain is the world's 5th largest producer of wind turbines?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YYToBYR83CM
Attached image:


Edited on 01-01-2022 00:09
01-01-2022 03:20
duncan61
★★★★☆
(1492)
And the Japanese thought the decadent Americans would not fight.How they go with that?Where I live has the best health care.I can book a G.P. appointment online and it is all covered by medicare.If you are wealthy you can have private cover.If I end up getting in a car crash today the hospital will admit me and fix me if they can and will not bill me like The USA.There is no wallet biopsy.I went to Armadale hospital emergency and said my chest hurts and I was in a chair and being seen to in about 5 seconds.I had given myself a lung infection by drinking and smoking with my friends for 7 days.I was given free antibiotics and it cleared up in 24 hours.
01-01-2022 03:45
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
James___ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
Just not sure on this one Harvey but saying whatever the U.S. does makes it better than everybody else, I think this is where Einstein would say that's taking nationalism to the extreme but what did he know?
Famous words in history, All Hail Caesar then it was Heil Hitler and now it's Hail Trump. Notice a pattern? Heil and hail are used the same way. And the saying in the U.S. is "When in Rome, do as the Romans do".
Myself, I'll most likely move to another country so I can pursue opportunity. And if I create jobs there then I'll be called a traitor. Yet what can I do in the U.S.? Suffer. What other countries show is that universal healthcare coverage improves healthcare while lowering costs. And as you said, if I sue doctors over mistakes they made, then I am the problem.
Maybe its America's wealth that is preventing its people from getting along with each other? It's known that Rome fell because of exploitation. When they could've worked with people they chose to make enemies of them instead.

So leave. You obviously don't like America. I'll warn you though, that since all you do is find problems in your life, it won't be any better anywhere else.



Thanks for your support ITN. I think other countries would like the idea of someone wanting to create jobs. And as you so kindly mentioned, Americans don't like working for the life they enjoy.

You are not creating jobs. You are whining.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
01-01-2022 03:45
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(16748)
James___ wrote:
p.s., if I lived here, would I have to worry about being hit by a motorist?
And since I'd like to try to make a better wind turbine, would it matter that Spain is the world's 5th largest producer of wind turbines?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YYToBYR83CM

So go live in Spain.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan
01-01-2022 03:53
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
Into the Night wrote:
James___ wrote:
p.s., if I lived here, would I have to worry about being hit by a motorist?
And since I'd like to try to make a better wind turbine, would it matter that Spain is the world's 5th largest producer of wind turbines?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YYToBYR83CM

So go live in Spain.



I'm actually thinking Spain and Australia. Australia has some really cool wild life while Spain is the gateway to Europe. And that they both have nice beaches/weather (skiing near Sydney) helps.
01-01-2022 05:00
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3908)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.



A lot of Americans don't understand or maybe don't want to know that healthcare can be improved while lowering costs. And this could help other countries as well. In the U.S., the cost of healthcare per capita is the highest in the world. And with this, of the top 20 countries, the U.S. might be the only country without universal healthcare coverage. And when going to #4 and lower on the list, healthcare cost per capita is about 2/3rds that of the U.S.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/health_spending_per_capita/


We are also a lawsuit happy country, which also drives up the cost... Universal healthcare usually means long wait to see a doctor... They give the quick and cheapest treatment options.



Can't you do better than this Harvey? The U.S. is a capitalist country. That is why people like you love it. And since the U.S. has the highest cost of healthcare per capita in the world, it shows that capitalism works. Besides, insurance pays for lawsuits and not the doctors and hospitals. It's just another cost of doing business in a capitalist country.
And the next few posts will be about what countries with socialist healthcare are doing.


That's the problem in America, 'insurance will pay for it...' Who pays for the cost of the insurance premiums? We all do. It's spread out among all the 'customers'. Insurance doesn't like to pay, so the raise their rates. Insurance companies raise their rates for everybody, even if you never need to file a claim. Insurance companies like high prices, since no one can really afford not to be insured. You'll never guess which political party owns most of the insurance industry...

Universal healthcare is no different. Instead of insurance, they pay the democrat party directly through taxes. Do countries with universal healthcare have lower taxes. Not just taxes they collect for healthcare, but overall? Nothing is free, we all are forced to pay, one way or another. Of course, you don't care, since you don't earn an income, but live off the 'donations' of hard working, American patriots. So you can spout hatred for the people that feed you, and provide your 'free' crap-sacks. It would be worth it, if America would buy you a 'free' one way plane ticket to the country of your choice. But, a few months of whining about not getting enough, free stuff. They'd likely send you back, or dump you off on another country.
01-01-2022 05:33
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.



A lot of Americans don't understand or maybe don't want to know that healthcare can be improved while lowering costs. And this could help other countries as well. In the U.S., the cost of healthcare per capita is the highest in the world. And with this, of the top 20 countries, the U.S. might be the only country without universal healthcare coverage. And when going to #4 and lower on the list, healthcare cost per capita is about 2/3rds that of the U.S.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/health_spending_per_capita/


We are also a lawsuit happy country, which also drives up the cost... Universal healthcare usually means long wait to see a doctor... They give the quick and cheapest treatment options.



Can't you do better than this Harvey? The U.S. is a capitalist country. That is why people like you love it. And since the U.S. has the highest cost of healthcare per capita in the world, it shows that capitalism works. Besides, insurance pays for lawsuits and not the doctors and hospitals. It's just another cost of doing business in a capitalist country.
And the next few posts will be about what countries with socialist healthcare are doing.


That's the problem in America, 'insurance will pay for it...' Who pays for the cost of the insurance premiums? We all do. It's spread out among all the 'customers'. Insurance doesn't like to pay, so the raise their rates. Insurance companies raise their rates for everybody, even if you never need to file a claim. Insurance companies like high prices, since no one can really afford not to be insured. You'll never guess which political party owns most of the insurance industry...

Universal healthcare is no different. Instead of insurance, they pay the democrat party directly through taxes. Do countries with universal healthcare have lower taxes. Not just taxes they collect for healthcare, but overall? Nothing is free, we all are forced to pay, one way or another. Of course, you don't care, since you don't earn an income, but live off the 'donations' of hard working, American patriots. So you can spout hatred for the people that feed you, and provide your 'free' crap-sacks. It would be worth it, if America would buy you a 'free' one way plane ticket to the country of your choice. But, a few months of whining about not getting enough, free stuff. They'd likely send you back, or dump you off on another country.



And I was thinking GasGuzzler;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcnR5zmFaXQ

And Harvey, I think any settlement that I get from your insurance company will be money that another country will want. That's capitalism 101.
01-01-2022 21:50
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(3908)
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
James___ wrote:
Xadoman wrote:
Did you have a bad experience with a hospital or something?


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000.
Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer.



A lot of Americans don't understand or maybe don't want to know that healthcare can be improved while lowering costs. And this could help other countries as well. In the U.S., the cost of healthcare per capita is the highest in the world. And with this, of the top 20 countries, the U.S. might be the only country without universal healthcare coverage. And when going to #4 and lower on the list, healthcare cost per capita is about 2/3rds that of the U.S.

https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/health_spending_per_capita/


We are also a lawsuit happy country, which also drives up the cost... Universal healthcare usually means long wait to see a doctor... They give the quick and cheapest treatment options.



Can't you do better than this Harvey? The U.S. is a capitalist country. That is why people like you love it. And since the U.S. has the highest cost of healthcare per capita in the world, it shows that capitalism works. Besides, insurance pays for lawsuits and not the doctors and hospitals. It's just another cost of doing business in a capitalist country.
And the next few posts will be about what countries with socialist healthcare are doing.


That's the problem in America, 'insurance will pay for it...' Who pays for the cost of the insurance premiums? We all do. It's spread out among all the 'customers'. Insurance doesn't like to pay, so the raise their rates. Insurance companies raise their rates for everybody, even if you never need to file a claim. Insurance companies like high prices, since no one can really afford not to be insured. You'll never guess which political party owns most of the insurance industry...

Universal healthcare is no different. Instead of insurance, they pay the democrat party directly through taxes. Do countries with universal healthcare have lower taxes. Not just taxes they collect for healthcare, but overall? Nothing is free, we all are forced to pay, one way or another. Of course, you don't care, since you don't earn an income, but live off the 'donations' of hard working, American patriots. So you can spout hatred for the people that feed you, and provide your 'free' crap-sacks. It would be worth it, if America would buy you a 'free' one way plane ticket to the country of your choice. But, a few months of whining about not getting enough, free stuff. They'd likely send you back, or dump you off on another country.



And I was thinking GasGuzzler;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcnR5zmFaXQ

And Harvey, I think any settlement that I get from your insurance company will be money that another country will want. That's capitalism 101.


Isn't there a code of honor among thieves? Insurance companies don't like paying out. They really don't like other thieves stealing from them... You already scammed them for a crap-sack, which they might tolerate, but a greedy settlement...
03-01-2022 04:59
James___
★★★★★
(5480)
HarveyH55 wrote:

Isn't there a code of honor among thieves? Insurance companies don't like paying out. They really don't like other thieves stealing from them... You already scammed them for a crap-sack, which they might tolerate, but a greedy settlement...



And you're one example of why America Was Great.




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