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What is the Greenhouse Effect?



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17-08-2017 20:49
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner gazzed & guzzling" gushed: ...read the question....

"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner gazzed & guzzling" asks questions to divert away from AGW. Since they never took science chemistry astronomy physics algebra & pre-calc in skule(many didn't graduate), they're full of questions, they never asked before..... full of poop, too.
17-08-2017 21:18
James_
★★★☆☆
(801)
GasGuzzler wrote:
gasguzzler, this is where I wonder if climate scientists with the IPCC really want CO2 emissions lowered. Without our ozone layer photosynthesis in plants will slow, plants will become diseased hurting food production, phytoplankton will decrease (start of the marine food chain), cancers will increase, etc.
And that would be as the ozone layer declines. As it recovers many ecosystems will improve. With CO2 it may be that the amount of increase in warming is not sufficient to be a viable threat, just might make things slightly warmer. This would explain why no scientists have verified how much extra heat CO2 causes atmospheric gases to absorb or "trap". elevated CO2 levels might primarily be a "symptom" and not the illness so to speak.
Often times it's what is not being said that matters most.


You mean like how the health dept wants everyone to quit smoking?....but the dirty little secret is that there are billions and billions of tax dollars generated by tobacco, and if they really wanted everyone to quit, they'd just make it illegal. Same with local gov traffic cameras. Our leaders tell us they are for public safety. BS, they're a cash cow. Are you saying the IPCC could be operating in the same way? How would the IPCC benefit from that? I honestly don't know the money trail if that organization. Money trails answer most questions. Cynical? Maybe.
Honestly the science of this ozone subject is a bit (way) over my head. I have learned a lot though reading your posts and the back and forth with others here. Slowly but surely I'm getting the education I squandered as a kid/young man.


Gasguzzler,
With CO2 it might be more about saving face. It'd make scientists look bad for politicizing climate change. This means pursue science according to political wants rather than following where science leads them.
If you considered what Wake said about CO2 being an essential atmospheric gas he goes from saying no climate change is happening to saying I promote ignorance. It wasn't my report that stated that rising CO2 levels and stratospheric ozone are thought to be related by scientists with the IPCC.
And if I say improve carbon capture and seed the tropopause there will only be more sarcasm. CO2 has to be only bad or doesn't matter. Yet depending on where ozone is will determine if it's good or bad ozone. An experiment that I've been pursuing would in one aspect show CO2 is the same way.

https://phys.org/news/2015-05-ice-cores-atmospheric-million-years.html
17-08-2017 21:20
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
litesong wrote:... never took science chemistry astronomy physics algebra & pre-calc in its unearned hi skule DEE-plooma.
////////
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner gazzed & guzzling" gushed:
Why do continue with this line?
////////
litesong wrote:
Many AGW denier liar whiners are proud they never took science chemistry astronomy physics algebra & pre-calc in their unearned hi skule DEE-ploomas.
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner gazzed & guzzling" has enough sense to NOT be proud that it never took science chemistry astronomy physics algebra & pre-calc in its unearned hi skule DEE-plooma..... tho it is proud that it is a racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner.
17-08-2017 21:35
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner wake-me-up" woofs: But what can you expect from an Indian.


"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner wake-me-up" proves that it is an old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig.
17-08-2017 21:43
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1526)
I had fun instead of studying in high school, and ultimately failed. Some how I still managed get more value out of it than you Litebeer.
Would you care to comment on a climate issue now? There's plenty to choose from.
Edited on 17-08-2017 21:50
17-08-2017 21:49
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1526)
What are you saying James? That the CO2 was just a theory that snowballed out of control until it was too late to reel it back in after all the hype? That the media loves doom and gloom and anything for more CNN viewers? And now that the solid evidence as not materialized as predicted there's nothing to do but run even harder with it to save face? I could buy that. Very plausible. No one enjoys being wrong....Although 18 years of marriage and I'm getting better at being wrong gracefully.

Edited on 17-08-2017 22:10
17-08-2017 23:27
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
James_ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
gasguzzler, this is where I wonder if climate scientists with the IPCC really want CO2 emissions lowered. Without our ozone layer photosynthesis in plants will slow, plants will become diseased hurting food production, phytoplankton will decrease (start of the marine food chain), cancers will increase, etc.
And that would be as the ozone layer declines. As it recovers many ecosystems will improve. With CO2 it may be that the amount of increase in warming is not sufficient to be a viable threat, just might make things slightly warmer. This would explain why no scientists have verified how much extra heat CO2 causes atmospheric gases to absorb or "trap". elevated CO2 levels might primarily be a "symptom" and not the illness so to speak.
Often times it's what is not being said that matters most.


You mean like how the health dept wants everyone to quit smoking?....but the dirty little secret is that there are billions and billions of tax dollars generated by tobacco, and if they really wanted everyone to quit, they'd just make it illegal. Same with local gov traffic cameras. Our leaders tell us they are for public safety. BS, they're a cash cow. Are you saying the IPCC could be operating in the same way? How would the IPCC benefit from that? I honestly don't know the money trail if that organization. Money trails answer most questions. Cynical? Maybe.
Honestly the science of this ozone subject is a bit (way) over my head. I have learned a lot though reading your posts and the back and forth with others here. Slowly but surely I'm getting the education I squandered as a kid/young man.


Gasguzzler,
With CO2 it might be more about saving face. It'd make scientists look bad for politicizing climate change. This means pursue science according to political wants rather than following where science leads them.
If you considered what Wake said about CO2 being an essential atmospheric gas he goes from saying no climate change is happening to saying I promote ignorance. It wasn't my report that stated that rising CO2 levels and stratospheric ozone are thought to be related by scientists with the IPCC.
And if I say improve carbon capture and seed the tropopause there will only be more sarcasm. CO2 has to be only bad or doesn't matter. Yet depending on where ozone is will determine if it's good or bad ozone. An experiment that I've been pursuing would in one aspect show CO2 is the same way.

...deleted non-sequitur link...


You seem to be rambling. You can't even stay on your own topic.

CO2 had nothing to do with ozone.

There is no such thing as 'good' ozone or 'bad' ozone. None of it is going to get a piece of coal in its sock at Christmas.


The Parrot Killer
17-08-2017 23:27
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
GasGuzzler wrote:
never took science chemistry astronomy physics algebra & pre-calc in its unearned hi skule DEE-plooma.


Why do continue with this line? When someone asks for your knowledge, you just tell them to go ask a scientist. Can you input anything besides what you copy and paste? Things you "learn" on CNN don't count.


You have to just skip over him. I'll read one out of a hundred just to see if he got his act together. In 5 years he hasn't. When you see him posting 8 in a row to himself you know that there's nothing between his ears that wasn't scalped off long ago.
17-08-2017 23:28
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
GasGuzzler wrote:
What are you saying James? That the CO2 was just a theory that snowballed out of control until it was too late to reel it back in after all the hype? That the media loves doom and gloom and anything for more CNN viewers? And now that the solid evidence as not materialized as predicted there's nothing to do but run even harder with it to save face? I could buy that. Very plausible. No one enjoys being wrong....Although 18 years of marriage and I'm getting better at being wrong gracefully.


I really don't think he knows what he's saying anymore.


The Parrot Killer
18-08-2017 00:36
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1526)
ITN wrote;
Ooh yeah. That's when you get the real test of living in the upper midwest!

We may have long gray winters, but we don't get that kind of cold here...ever.

I was thinking about this conversation yesterday....
At my house, I have seen 110 F
I have seen 105 with a dew point of 81. (135ish heat index)
I have also seen -42F. Me and the kids had fun throwing pans of hot water up and watching it freeze in the air.
That is a temp spread of 152F!

I am an avid outdoors man. I live in the timber (yes, in a house) and have 100+acres to hunt and fish. Every year I see more deer, more wild turkey, quail, squirrels, rabbits...you name it. This state is teaming with wildlife. When I was a kid, it was really something special to see a deer in an open field grazing in the evening. Now, I worry something is wrong if I don't see a couple dozen, just on the last mile home. Between me and my son, we can legally take somewhere around 12 deer if we maximized tags, and these critters still keep reproducing. They have even now introduced a pistol season in my state to try an attract a new demographic to help critter control. (bad idea)
I guess my point is simple. Next time some Greenman or the like tries to tell you all the animals will die from a 1-2 degree rise in temp, let him know he's a moron.
Edited on 18-08-2017 00:43
18-08-2017 01:31
James_
★★★☆☆
(801)
GasGuzzler wrote:
What are you saying James? That the CO2 was just a theory that snowballed out of control until it was too late to reel it back in after all the hype? That the media loves doom and gloom and anything for more CNN viewers? And now that the solid evidence as not materialized as predicted there's nothing to do but run even harder with it to save face? I could buy that. Very plausible. No one enjoys being wrong....Although 18 years of marriage and I'm getting better at being wrong gracefully.


Gasguzzler,
Something like that. In the 1960`s they believed that the last ice age ended because CO2 levels rose.
Now with more research they are saying the rise in CO2 levels followed that warming by about 800 years.
This suggests that the oceans warmed before releasing the CO2 they absorbed when the oceans were cooling.
This is where I think research should be done to show how much solar radiation atmospheric gases actually absorb. That's something that hasn't been done. If so then the climate models would be more accurate.
Where I upset some people in here is that I think that waste heat might be the actual threat while CO2 is primarily an indicator. One way to consider this is the number of days a year the glaciers on Greenland are melting. I think that helps to regulate the opening between 2 tectonic plates.
Difficult to say what kind of threat that is.
18-08-2017 01:56
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
GasGuzzler wrote:
ITN wrote;
Ooh yeah. That's when you get the real test of living in the upper midwest!

We may have long gray winters, but we don't get that kind of cold here...ever.

I was thinking about this conversation yesterday....
At my house, I have seen 110 F
I have seen 105 with a dew point of 81. (135ish heat index)
I have also seen -42F. Me and the kids had fun throwing pans of hot water up and watching it freeze in the air.
That is a temp spread of 152F!

I am an avid outdoors man. I live in the timber (yes, in a house) and have 100+acres to hunt and fish. Every year I see more deer, more wild turkey, quail, squirrels, rabbits...you name it. This state is teaming with wildlife. When I was a kid, it was really something special to see a deer in an open field grazing in the evening. Now, I worry something is wrong if I don't see a couple dozen, just on the last mile home. Between me and my son, we can legally take somewhere around 12 deer if we maximized tags, and these critters still keep reproducing. They have even now introduced a pistol season in my state to try an attract a new demographic to help critter control. (bad idea)
I guess my point is simple. Next time some Greenman or the like tries to tell you all the animals will die from a 1-2 degree rise in temp, let him know he's a moron.


I too have been seeing an increase in wildlife around here, particularly black bear, cottontail rabbits, and deer. The deer have become a problem. The animal control people now have to come out and reduce the herd from time to time using airguns to reduce the traffic hazard here.

We are not in the country. It is suburbia here. Out in the country, the wildlife is really increasing. More black bear, deer, rabbits, skunks, spotted owls, eagles, etc. than ever before.

Our temperature spread is nowhere near as great as yours!
We only see about 10 deg F to 90 deg F during our seasonal changes.


The Parrot Killer
18-08-2017 02:58
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
James_ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
What are you saying James? That the CO2 was just a theory that snowballed out of control until it was too late to reel it back in after all the hype? That the media loves doom and gloom and anything for more CNN viewers? And now that the solid evidence as not materialized as predicted there's nothing to do but run even harder with it to save face? I could buy that. Very plausible. No one enjoys being wrong....Although 18 years of marriage and I'm getting better at being wrong gracefully.


Gasguzzler,
Something like that. In the 1960`s they believed that the last ice age ended because CO2 levels rose.
Now with more research they are saying the rise in CO2 levels followed that warming by about 800 years.
This suggests that the oceans warmed before releasing the CO2 they absorbed when the oceans were cooling.
This is where I think research should be done to show how much solar radiation atmospheric gases actually absorb. That's something that hasn't been done. If so then the climate models would be more accurate.
Where I upset some people in here is that I think that waste heat might be the actual threat while CO2 is primarily an indicator. One way to consider this is the number of days a year the glaciers on Greenland are melting. I think that helps to regulate the opening between 2 tectonic plates.
Difficult to say what kind of threat that is.


I think that you got everything right down to where why people are getting upset with you.

We are in the latest of at least three earlier warm periods that occurred on approximately a 1000 year cycle. What's more, the one we're presently in is significantly cooler than the earlier one's if historical and geological evidence is to be believed.

This warm period started in 1886. How do you suppose that man could have in any manner effected the climate when his population was 1/6th of what it presently is?

We aren't getting pissed at you for talking about "waste heat" but because you think that warming is caused by such.
18-08-2017 04:55
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner gazzed & guzzler" gushed: I had fun instead of studying in high school....

Great background for "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner gazzed & guzzler" to develop the characteristics of an old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner.
18-08-2017 04:58
James_
★★★☆☆
(801)
Wake wrote:
James_ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
What are you saying James? That the CO2 was just a theory that snowballed out of control until it was too late to reel it back in after all the hype? That the media loves doom and gloom and anything for more CNN viewers? And now that the solid evidence as not materialized as predicted there's nothing to do but run even harder with it to save face? I could buy that. Very plausible. No one enjoys being wrong....Although 18 years of marriage and I'm getting better at being wrong gracefully.


Gasguzzler,
Something like that. In the 1960`s they believed that the last ice age ended because CO2 levels rose.
Now with more research they are saying the rise in CO2 levels followed that warming by about 800 years.
This suggests that the oceans warmed before releasing the CO2 they absorbed when the oceans were cooling.
This is where I think research should be done to show how much solar radiation atmospheric gases actually absorb. That's something that hasn't been done. If so then the climate models would be more accurate.
Where I upset some people in here is that I think that waste heat might be the actual threat while CO2 is primarily an indicator. One way to consider this is the number of days a year the glaciers on Greenland are melting. I think that helps to regulate the opening between 2 tectonic plates.
Difficult to say what kind of threat that is.


I think that you got everything right down to where why people are getting upset with you.

We are in the latest of at least three earlier warm periods that occurred on approximately a 1000 year cycle. What's more, the one we're presently in is significantly cooler than the earlier one's if historical and geological evidence is to be believed.

This warm period started in 1886. How do you suppose that man could have in any manner effected the climate when his population was 1/6th of what it presently is?

We aren't getting pissed at you for talking about "waste heat" but because you think that warming is caused by such.


I think this is because you do not understand. As you said, the world`s population has significantly increased. Since energy can not be destroyed every KwH of energy spent on work is heat.
And with you Wake you say that ice core research is iffy and that no climate change is happening. If you considered it a bit more you`d realize that more warming would be within the limits of previous warm periods after an ice age.
And since you are a climate scientist I wonder why you're not aware of that.
My concern is can we cause our planet to warm more than it has in the past. Still much we don't know which is why climate change is debated as much as it is.
18-08-2017 05:29
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner" bluffed: We only see about 10 deg F to 90 deg F during our seasonal changes.

That's about right. When I was a kid, we had temps below 0degF, rarely. Not following low temperatures lately. The lowest I've seen about 4 years ago was 6degF. In 2009, Seattle hit its highest temp of 103. Early that day, I was driving around Everett with temps in the 95+degF. according to my "fairly accurate" car thermometer. Turning inland away from the cooling Salish Sea (Puget Sound) waters, the thermometer rose quickly, to 100+degF, to 105degF. Several spot temperatures registered 108degF. Finally, one temperature nailed 111degF. Near ridges, the 111degF temp was probably downslope heating.
Meanwhile, "don't rump"(always small letters) has ascended to the toilet throne & now is the grand wizard of the kkk(always small letters) & uniter of the neo-nazis. david duke thanked "don't rump"(always small letters) for taking the heavy burden off its shoulders. Also, re-pubic-lick-uns are bowed down, seeing the orange glory of "don't rump" & its hair & skin, reflecting from the bonfires.
18-08-2017 05:40
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner wake-me-up" woofed: You have to just skip over him.

That's why "old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner wake-me-up" keeps answering me.
18-08-2017 06:01
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1526)
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
ITN wrote;
Ooh yeah. That's when you get the real test of living in the upper midwest!

We may have long gray winters, but we don't get that kind of cold here...ever.

I was thinking about this conversation yesterday....
At my house, I have seen 110 F
I have seen 105 with a dew point of 81. (135ish heat index)
I have also seen -42F. Me and the kids had fun throwing pans of hot water up and watching it freeze in the air.
That is a temp spread of 152F!

I am an avid outdoors man. I live in the timber (yes, in a house) and have 100+acres to hunt and fish. Every year I see more deer, more wild turkey, quail, squirrels, rabbits...you name it. This state is teaming with wildlife. When I was a kid, it was really something special to see a deer in an open field grazing in the evening. Now, I worry something is wrong if I don't see a couple dozen, just on the last mile home. Between me and my son, we can legally take somewhere around 12 deer if we maximized tags, and these critters still keep reproducing. They have even now introduced a pistol season in my state to try an attract a new demographic to help critter control. (bad idea)
I guess my point is simple. Next time some Greenman or the like tries to tell you all the animals will die from a 1-2 degree rise in temp, let him know he's a moron.


I too have been seeing an increase in wildlife around here, particularly black bear, cottontail rabbits, and deer. The deer have become a problem. The animal control people now have to come out and reduce the herd from time to time using airguns to reduce the traffic hazard here.

We are not in the country. It is suburbia here. Out in the country, the wildlife is really increasing. More black bear, deer, rabbits, skunks, spotted owls, eagles, etc. than ever before.

Our temperature spread is nowhere near as great as yours!
We only see about 10 deg F to 90 deg F during our seasonal changes.


Yeah, the cities have a real problem here too. Over in Cedar Rapids they've got a city archery season on whitetail deer. They've been doing that for 10+ years and it's been helping a lot. When they first opened it, the DNR was actually handing out tags in city park areas. You had plug a doe first and then they'd issue you a buck tag if ya wanted. Buddy of mine hunted right on the city golf course in the timber just off the 10th green. I'd like to see the local gov do that in Seattle.

Now the geese are a problem too...crapping all over everything. I think they were going to bring in sharp shooters and fill some food banks with those.

This CO2 is becoming a real problem for the wildlife...they are thriving.


spot-
Into the Night is also has delusions of comptance
Edited on 18-08-2017 06:02
18-08-2017 08:14
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner gazz guzzler" gushed: Buddy of mine hunted right on the city golf course in the timber just off the 10th green.

old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiners know Hells Angels & keep their guns in their golf bags.... just like mafia dons.
18-08-2017 08:36
GreenMan
★★★☆☆
(661)
James_ wrote:
This is where I think research should be done to show how much solar radiation atmospheric gases actually absorb. That's something that hasn't been done. If so then the climate models would be more accurate.


James_, it's not "solar radiation" that atmospheric gases absorb. It is earth radiation that is absorbed. Solar radiation is short wavelength. Earth radiation is long wavelength, which is what greenhouse gases like to get warm with.

And yes, I agree that more testing would be beneficial.


~*~ GreenMan ~*~

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/leftbehind/index.php
18-08-2017 16:56
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
James_ wrote:
Wake wrote:
We are in the latest of at least three earlier warm periods that occurred on approximately a 1000 year cycle. What's more, the one we're presently in is significantly cooler than the earlier one's if historical and geological evidence is to be believed.

This warm period started in 1886. How do you suppose that man could have in any manner effected the climate when his population was 1/6th of what it presently is?

We aren't getting pissed at you for talking about "waste heat" but because you think that warming is caused by such.


I think this is because you do not understand. As you said, the world`s population has significantly increased. Since energy can not be destroyed every KwH of energy spent on work is heat.
And with you Wake you say that ice core research is iffy and that no climate change is happening. If you considered it a bit more you`d realize that more warming would be within the limits of previous warm periods after an ice age.
And since you are a climate scientist I wonder why you're not aware of that.
My concern is can we cause our planet to warm more than it has in the past. Still much we don't know which is why climate change is debated as much as it is.


Jim - you don't seem to either grasp how large this planet is or what immense power than the Sun inserts onto this planet everyday 24 hours a day.

This planet is covered over 70% by water and you seem to think that in a few worldwide population centers the amount of waste heat generated is sensible. Man probably produces far less heat than the insect load on this planet.

I think that ice core research is iffy ONLY to the extent of CO2 levels. I have also referred to research that shows VERY rapid changes and CO2 levels as high as today obtain just from TWO short research projects.

Ice core research has nothing to so with warming and I said that I think that perhaps we haven't warmed at all beyond normal climate variations. Warm periods are part of normal variations.
18-08-2017 18:34
James_
★★★☆☆
(801)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
ITN wrote;
Ooh yeah. That's when you get the real test of living in the upper midwest!

We may have long gray winters, but we don't get that kind of cold here...ever.

I was thinking about this conversation yesterday....
At my house, I have seen 110 F
I have seen 105 with a dew point of 81. (135ish heat index)
I have also seen -42F. Me and the kids had fun throwing pans of hot water up and watching it freeze in the air.
That is a temp spread of 152F!

I am an avid outdoors man. I live in the timber (yes, in a house) and have 100+acres to hunt and fish. Every year I see more deer, more wild turkey, quail, squirrels, rabbits...you name it. This state is teaming with wildlife. When I was a kid, it was really something special to see a deer in an open field grazing in the evening. Now, I worry something is wrong if I don't see a couple dozen, just on the last mile home. Between me and my son, we can legally take somewhere around 12 deer if we maximized tags, and these critters still keep reproducing. They have even now introduced a pistol season in my state to try an attract a new demographic to help critter control. (bad idea)
I guess my point is simple. Next time some Greenman or the like tries to tell you all the animals will die from a 1-2 degree rise in temp, let him know he's a moron.


I too have been seeing an increase in wildlife around here, particularly black bear, cottontail rabbits, and deer. The deer have become a problem. The animal control people now have to come out and reduce the herd from time to time using airguns to reduce the traffic hazard here.

We are not in the country. It is suburbia here. Out in the country, the wildlife is really increasing. More black bear, deer, rabbits, skunks, spotted owls, eagles, etc. than ever before.

Our temperature spread is nowhere near as great as yours!
We only see about 10 deg F to 90 deg F during our seasonal changes.


Yeah, the cities have a real problem here too. Over in Cedar Rapids they've got a city archery season on whitetail deer. They've been doing that for 10+ years and it's been helping a lot. When they first opened it, the DNR was actually handing out tags in city park areas. You had plug a doe first and then they'd issue you a buck tag if ya wanted. Buddy of mine hunted right on the city golf course in the timber just off the 10th green. I'd like to see the local gov do that in Seattle.

Now the geese are a problem too...crapping all over everything. I think they were going to bring in sharp shooters and fill some food banks with those.

This CO2 is becoming a real problem for the wildlife...they are thriving.


Gasguzzler,
Wildlife might be thriving because of the lack of predators. What ITN described is urban sprawl. Loss of natural habitat causes wildlife to be found in urban areas more often.
Yellowstone National Park re-introduced wolves to restore balance.
Washington State encourages the hunting of big horn sheep so they don't damage the ecosystem by eating all the ground level vegetation that small animals need for food or for shelter (hide) from carnivorous animals.
18-08-2017 19:07
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1526)
Gasguzzler,
Wildlife might be thriving because of the lack of predators. What ITN described is urban sprawl. Loss of natural habitat causes wildlife to be found in urban areas more often.
Yellowstone National Park re-introduced wolves to restore balance.
Washington State encourages the hunting of big horn sheep so they don't damage the ecosystem by eating all the ground level vegetation that small animals need for food or for shelter (hide) from carnivorous animals.

No, not really any predators in town. But here's the crazy part. Due to low fur prices, no one does any trapping anymore, and predator populations are also way up. Our coyote population has exploded. Not as vicious as wolves, but a pack of coyotes can easily take down a deer. Thing is, they don't have to. Summertime they feed mostly on rabbits/field mice. Come Oct there are plenty of hunters taking to the woods and they will be leaving behind those tasty gut piles.

Our hunting seasons run from Oct 1st through Jan 10th. Last year I counted 78 whitetail deer in one field on Jan 11th. They do keep all guns closed during the hard rut, (peak mating) and is only open that time period to archery. I hope they will continue this practice. Love my bow and hate seeing monster bucks taken with gun.
And even though they won't admit to it, we have some pretty credible evidence the Iowa DNR has introduced Bobcats here to reduce the fawn populations.

Bottom line is there is not one animal in my area that is in any kind of trouble due to to any kind of warming. It's laughable to even say so, but some do.
Edited on 18-08-2017 19:10
18-08-2017 19:22
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
James_ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
ITN wrote;
Ooh yeah. That's when you get the real test of living in the upper midwest!

We may have long gray winters, but we don't get that kind of cold here...ever.

I was thinking about this conversation yesterday....
At my house, I have seen 110 F
I have seen 105 with a dew point of 81. (135ish heat index)
I have also seen -42F. Me and the kids had fun throwing pans of hot water up and watching it freeze in the air.
That is a temp spread of 152F!

I am an avid outdoors man. I live in the timber (yes, in a house) and have 100+acres to hunt and fish. Every year I see more deer, more wild turkey, quail, squirrels, rabbits...you name it. This state is teaming with wildlife. When I was a kid, it was really something special to see a deer in an open field grazing in the evening. Now, I worry something is wrong if I don't see a couple dozen, just on the last mile home. Between me and my son, we can legally take somewhere around 12 deer if we maximized tags, and these critters still keep reproducing. They have even now introduced a pistol season in my state to try an attract a new demographic to help critter control. (bad idea)
I guess my point is simple. Next time some Greenman or the like tries to tell you all the animals will die from a 1-2 degree rise in temp, let him know he's a moron.


I too have been seeing an increase in wildlife around here, particularly black bear, cottontail rabbits, and deer. The deer have become a problem. The animal control people now have to come out and reduce the herd from time to time using airguns to reduce the traffic hazard here.

We are not in the country. It is suburbia here. Out in the country, the wildlife is really increasing. More black bear, deer, rabbits, skunks, spotted owls, eagles, etc. than ever before.

Our temperature spread is nowhere near as great as yours!
We only see about 10 deg F to 90 deg F during our seasonal changes.


Yeah, the cities have a real problem here too. Over in Cedar Rapids they've got a city archery season on whitetail deer. They've been doing that for 10+ years and it's been helping a lot. When they first opened it, the DNR was actually handing out tags in city park areas. You had plug a doe first and then they'd issue you a buck tag if ya wanted. Buddy of mine hunted right on the city golf course in the timber just off the 10th green. I'd like to see the local gov do that in Seattle.

Now the geese are a problem too...crapping all over everything. I think they were going to bring in sharp shooters and fill some food banks with those.

This CO2 is becoming a real problem for the wildlife...they are thriving.


Gasguzzler,
Wildlife might be thriving because of the lack of predators. What ITN described is urban sprawl. Loss of natural habitat causes wildlife to be found in urban areas more often.
Yellowstone National Park re-introduced wolves to restore balance.
Washington State encourages the hunting of big horn sheep so they don't damage the ecosystem by eating all the ground level vegetation that small animals need for food or for shelter (hide) from carnivorous animals.


Lack of predators? We have coyotes, wolves, mountain lions and even black bear inside of the city limits where they have been driven by competition for hunting grounds. Just in the last month we've had pictures on the news of mountain lions in the trees in backyards. Animal Control is not supposed to harm these animals even though they present a clear and present danger to children.
18-08-2017 19:33
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1526)
Yep total BS. I can't tell you how many tax dollars were spent, and lives risked, when they sent the fire dept out to save a deer that fell through a hole in the ice. Shoot it a feed somebody. No no, they did the harness and the whole works. I suppose it was a good training session if nothing else. Just a bit ridiculous. Had a deer get inside a coffee shop a while back. That was an entertaining video. They offered him a cappuccino but he wasn't interested


What I find amusing is that you must buy your deer tags and hunting licenses...1000 dollar fine if you don't. Those deer are state property. As soon as that deer is over your hood and through your windshield they don't seem to claim much liability.
18-08-2017 20:07
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
"old sick silly sleepy sleezy slimy steenkin' filthy vile reprobate rooting (& rotting) racist pukey proud pig AGW denier liar whiner gazzed & guzzling" gushed: As soon as that deer is over your hood and through your windshield.....

Two-thirds(more?) of a century ago, my Grandparents were driving next to a field of horses. One of the horses started running parallel to their car. Suddenly, the horse turned toward them. The car bumper caught the horse, & flipped it over their car. The horse landed on the other side of their car & died. My Grandparents could have died if the horse had piled on top of the car.
18-08-2017 21:15
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
James_ wrote:
Wake wrote:
James_ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
What are you saying James? That the CO2 was just a theory that snowballed out of control until it was too late to reel it back in after all the hype? That the media loves doom and gloom and anything for more CNN viewers? And now that the solid evidence as not materialized as predicted there's nothing to do but run even harder with it to save face? I could buy that. Very plausible. No one enjoys being wrong....Although 18 years of marriage and I'm getting better at being wrong gracefully.


Gasguzzler,
Something like that. In the 1960`s they believed that the last ice age ended because CO2 levels rose.
Now with more research they are saying the rise in CO2 levels followed that warming by about 800 years.
This suggests that the oceans warmed before releasing the CO2 they absorbed when the oceans were cooling.
This is where I think research should be done to show how much solar radiation atmospheric gases actually absorb. That's something that hasn't been done. If so then the climate models would be more accurate.
Where I upset some people in here is that I think that waste heat might be the actual threat while CO2 is primarily an indicator. One way to consider this is the number of days a year the glaciers on Greenland are melting. I think that helps to regulate the opening between 2 tectonic plates.
Difficult to say what kind of threat that is.


I think that you got everything right down to where why people are getting upset with you.

We are in the latest of at least three earlier warm periods that occurred on approximately a 1000 year cycle. What's more, the one we're presently in is significantly cooler than the earlier one's if historical and geological evidence is to be believed.

This warm period started in 1886. How do you suppose that man could have in any manner effected the climate when his population was 1/6th of what it presently is?

We aren't getting pissed at you for talking about "waste heat" but because you think that warming is caused by such.


I think this is because you do not understand. As you said, the world`s population has significantly increased. Since energy can not be destroyed every KwH of energy spent on work is heat.

Energy can't be created either. Ever think of that?
James_ wrote:
And with you Wake you say that ice core research is iffy

Ice cores do not reveal the temperature of the Earth. The best they can do is reveal by proxy the temperature at the ice core.

At the least you are actually saying that a single thermometer in Antarctica can describe the temperature of the entire Earth.
James_ wrote:
and that no climate change is happening.

There is no 'global' climate. There is no 'global' weather.

To describe a change, you must have two points of measurement. You haven't specified any. Should you do so, why are these two points significant? Why are any other points NOT significant?

You have not defined 'climate change'.

James_ wrote:
If you considered it a bit more you`d realize that more warming would be within the limits of previous warm periods after an ice age.

You don't know what the temperature of Earth is now or what it was then.
James_ wrote:
And since you are a climate scientist I wonder why you're not aware of that.

?? I have never heard Wake claim he's a climate scientist.

Climate 'scientists' do not use or create science. These guys are nothing more than high priests of the Church of Global Warming.

James_ wrote:
My concern is can we cause our planet to warm more than it has in the past.

No. We do not have that power. We cannot control the Sun or Earth's orbit.
James_ wrote:
Still much we don't know which is why climate change is debated as much as it is.

It is debated because the Church of Global Warming has become a state religion.

State religions are unconstitutional in the United States. There is a reason for that.

This particular religion also stems from the Church of Karl Marx. That debate is as old as his screwy ideas. His description of how to achieve Utopia doesn't work. All it does is achieve hell on Earth, in the form of dictatorships, oligarchies, misery, and death for dissidents.


The Parrot Killer
18-08-2017 21:28
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
ITN wrote;
Ooh yeah. That's when you get the real test of living in the upper midwest!

We may have long gray winters, but we don't get that kind of cold here...ever.

I was thinking about this conversation yesterday....
At my house, I have seen 110 F
I have seen 105 with a dew point of 81. (135ish heat index)
I have also seen -42F. Me and the kids had fun throwing pans of hot water up and watching it freeze in the air.
That is a temp spread of 152F!

I am an avid outdoors man. I live in the timber (yes, in a house) and have 100+acres to hunt and fish. Every year I see more deer, more wild turkey, quail, squirrels, rabbits...you name it. This state is teaming with wildlife. When I was a kid, it was really something special to see a deer in an open field grazing in the evening. Now, I worry something is wrong if I don't see a couple dozen, just on the last mile home. Between me and my son, we can legally take somewhere around 12 deer if we maximized tags, and these critters still keep reproducing. They have even now introduced a pistol season in my state to try an attract a new demographic to help critter control. (bad idea)
I guess my point is simple. Next time some Greenman or the like tries to tell you all the animals will die from a 1-2 degree rise in temp, let him know he's a moron.


I too have been seeing an increase in wildlife around here, particularly black bear, cottontail rabbits, and deer. The deer have become a problem. The animal control people now have to come out and reduce the herd from time to time using airguns to reduce the traffic hazard here.

We are not in the country. It is suburbia here. Out in the country, the wildlife is really increasing. More black bear, deer, rabbits, skunks, spotted owls, eagles, etc. than ever before.

Our temperature spread is nowhere near as great as yours!
We only see about 10 deg F to 90 deg F during our seasonal changes.


Yeah, the cities have a real problem here too. Over in Cedar Rapids they've got a city archery season on whitetail deer. They've been doing that for 10+ years and it's been helping a lot. When they first opened it, the DNR was actually handing out tags in city park areas. You had plug a doe first and then they'd issue you a buck tag if ya wanted. Buddy of mine hunted right on the city golf course in the timber just off the 10th green. I'd like to see the local gov do that in Seattle.

Now the geese are a problem too...crapping all over everything. I think they were going to bring in sharp shooters and fill some food banks with those.

This CO2 is becoming a real problem for the wildlife...they are thriving.


Yeah. We have a big problem with lazy geese too. People feed 'em, so they stay. They don't migrate. They crap all over everything.

When you primarily eat grass for a living, you don't much energy out of it. Flying is high energy work. Unlike a cow, a goose has to stay light enough to fly. A cow can just stand their and ruminate. It doesn't bother a cow to carry that load around awhile.

So a goose has to eat constantly, get what little energy there is, and discard the rest (crapping all the way). That way, they don't carry around that weight while they fly.

There IS one bird (in New Zealand) that also eats grass, but processes it like a cow. It even chews the cud and has four stomachs like a cow. It eats a bunch of grass, then sits up in the trees flat on it's back (in the lower tree...it can't fly much right now!) to expose it's belly to the Sun to help digestion.

When it flies, it flies like a lumbering cargo plane. It also doesn't fly far or high.

It's actually a rather pretty bird.

But you can guess what THIS bird lets go as it craps (in flight).


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 18-08-2017 21:28
18-08-2017 21:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
GreenMan wrote:
James_ wrote:
This is where I think research should be done to show how much solar radiation atmospheric gases actually absorb. That's something that hasn't been done. If so then the climate models would be more accurate.


James_, it's not "solar radiation" that atmospheric gases absorb. It is earth radiation that is absorbed. Solar radiation is short wavelength. Earth radiation is long wavelength, which is what greenhouse gases like to get warm with.

And yes, I agree that more testing would be beneficial.


Solar radiation is a wide set of wavelengths. Most surface heating is by infrared light (the bulk of the radiance from the Sun, even though the peak of radiance is visible light).

You cannot heat the surface with a colder gas (2nd law of thermodynamics). You are attempting to describe a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd order by using Magick Photons.

You cannot reduce the radiance of the Earth and use that to increase the temperature of the Earth (Stefan-Boltzmann law).

The Magick Bouncing Photon argument doesn't work.


The Parrot Killer
18-08-2017 21:40
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
James_ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
ITN wrote;
Ooh yeah. That's when you get the real test of living in the upper midwest!

We may have long gray winters, but we don't get that kind of cold here...ever.

I was thinking about this conversation yesterday....
At my house, I have seen 110 F
I have seen 105 with a dew point of 81. (135ish heat index)
I have also seen -42F. Me and the kids had fun throwing pans of hot water up and watching it freeze in the air.
That is a temp spread of 152F!

I am an avid outdoors man. I live in the timber (yes, in a house) and have 100+acres to hunt and fish. Every year I see more deer, more wild turkey, quail, squirrels, rabbits...you name it. This state is teaming with wildlife. When I was a kid, it was really something special to see a deer in an open field grazing in the evening. Now, I worry something is wrong if I don't see a couple dozen, just on the last mile home. Between me and my son, we can legally take somewhere around 12 deer if we maximized tags, and these critters still keep reproducing. They have even now introduced a pistol season in my state to try an attract a new demographic to help critter control. (bad idea)
I guess my point is simple. Next time some Greenman or the like tries to tell you all the animals will die from a 1-2 degree rise in temp, let him know he's a moron.


I too have been seeing an increase in wildlife around here, particularly black bear, cottontail rabbits, and deer. The deer have become a problem. The animal control people now have to come out and reduce the herd from time to time using airguns to reduce the traffic hazard here.

We are not in the country. It is suburbia here. Out in the country, the wildlife is really increasing. More black bear, deer, rabbits, skunks, spotted owls, eagles, etc. than ever before.

Our temperature spread is nowhere near as great as yours!
We only see about 10 deg F to 90 deg F during our seasonal changes.


Yeah, the cities have a real problem here too. Over in Cedar Rapids they've got a city archery season on whitetail deer. They've been doing that for 10+ years and it's been helping a lot. When they first opened it, the DNR was actually handing out tags in city park areas. You had plug a doe first and then they'd issue you a buck tag if ya wanted. Buddy of mine hunted right on the city golf course in the timber just off the 10th green. I'd like to see the local gov do that in Seattle.

Now the geese are a problem too...crapping all over everything. I think they were going to bring in sharp shooters and fill some food banks with those.

This CO2 is becoming a real problem for the wildlife...they are thriving.


Gasguzzler,
Wildlife might be thriving because of the lack of predators. What ITN described is urban sprawl. Loss of natural habitat causes wildlife to be found in urban areas more often.

Bears are predators. So are the wildcats we see around here. There are even more of them in the country, along with a lot of other animals. They are having no problem with CO2, either in the city (close to man) or in the country.
James_ wrote:
Yellowstone National Park re-introduced wolves to restore balance.

That's not balance.
James_ wrote:
Washington State encourages the hunting of big horn sheep so they don't damage the ecosystem by eating all the ground level vegetation that small animals need for food or for shelter (hide) from carnivorous animals.

Nope. Washington State issues big horn sheep tags so that population won't be decimated. Ground level vegetation grows around here so fast a big horn sheep would be covered by it if it stood still for too long.

Did you know there are small carnivorous animals?


The Parrot Killer
18-08-2017 21:41
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
Wake wrote:
James_ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
ITN wrote;
Ooh yeah. That's when you get the real test of living in the upper midwest!

We may have long gray winters, but we don't get that kind of cold here...ever.

I was thinking about this conversation yesterday....
At my house, I have seen 110 F
I have seen 105 with a dew point of 81. (135ish heat index)
I have also seen -42F. Me and the kids had fun throwing pans of hot water up and watching it freeze in the air.
That is a temp spread of 152F!

I am an avid outdoors man. I live in the timber (yes, in a house) and have 100+acres to hunt and fish. Every year I see more deer, more wild turkey, quail, squirrels, rabbits...you name it. This state is teaming with wildlife. When I was a kid, it was really something special to see a deer in an open field grazing in the evening. Now, I worry something is wrong if I don't see a couple dozen, just on the last mile home. Between me and my son, we can legally take somewhere around 12 deer if we maximized tags, and these critters still keep reproducing. They have even now introduced a pistol season in my state to try an attract a new demographic to help critter control. (bad idea)
I guess my point is simple. Next time some Greenman or the like tries to tell you all the animals will die from a 1-2 degree rise in temp, let him know he's a moron.


I too have been seeing an increase in wildlife around here, particularly black bear, cottontail rabbits, and deer. The deer have become a problem. The animal control people now have to come out and reduce the herd from time to time using airguns to reduce the traffic hazard here.

We are not in the country. It is suburbia here. Out in the country, the wildlife is really increasing. More black bear, deer, rabbits, skunks, spotted owls, eagles, etc. than ever before.

Our temperature spread is nowhere near as great as yours!
We only see about 10 deg F to 90 deg F during our seasonal changes.


Yeah, the cities have a real problem here too. Over in Cedar Rapids they've got a city archery season on whitetail deer. They've been doing that for 10+ years and it's been helping a lot. When they first opened it, the DNR was actually handing out tags in city park areas. You had plug a doe first and then they'd issue you a buck tag if ya wanted. Buddy of mine hunted right on the city golf course in the timber just off the 10th green. I'd like to see the local gov do that in Seattle.

Now the geese are a problem too...crapping all over everything. I think they were going to bring in sharp shooters and fill some food banks with those.

This CO2 is becoming a real problem for the wildlife...they are thriving.


Gasguzzler,
Wildlife might be thriving because of the lack of predators. What ITN described is urban sprawl. Loss of natural habitat causes wildlife to be found in urban areas more often.
Yellowstone National Park re-introduced wolves to restore balance.
Washington State encourages the hunting of big horn sheep so they don't damage the ecosystem by eating all the ground level vegetation that small animals need for food or for shelter (hide) from carnivorous animals.


Lack of predators? We have coyotes, wolves, mountain lions and even black bear inside of the city limits where they have been driven by competition for hunting grounds. Just in the last month we've had pictures on the news of mountain lions in the trees in backyards. Animal Control is not supposed to harm these animals even though they present a clear and present danger to children.

Yeah. We have 'em too. We also have hawks and eagles.


The Parrot Killer
18-08-2017 22:18
James_
★★★☆☆
(801)
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
James_ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
ITN wrote;
Ooh yeah. That's when you get the real test of living in the upper midwest!

We may have long gray winters, but we don't get that kind of cold here...ever.

I was thinking about this conversation yesterday....
At my house, I have seen 110 F
I have seen 105 with a dew point of 81. (135ish heat index)
I have also seen -42F. Me and the kids had fun throwing pans of hot water up and watching it freeze in the air.
That is a temp spread of 152F!

I am an avid outdoors man. I live in the timber (yes, in a house) and have 100+acres to hunt and fish. Every year I see more deer, more wild turkey, quail, squirrels, rabbits...you name it. This state is teaming with wildlife. When I was a kid, it was really something special to see a deer in an open field grazing in the evening. Now, I worry something is wrong if I don't see a couple dozen, just on the last mile home. Between me and my son, we can legally take somewhere around 12 deer if we maximized tags, and these critters still keep reproducing. They have even now introduced a pistol season in my state to try an attract a new demographic to help critter control. (bad idea)
I guess my point is simple. Next time some Greenman or the like tries to tell you all the animals will die from a 1-2 degree rise in temp, let him know he's a moron.


I too have been seeing an increase in wildlife around here, particularly black bear, cottontail rabbits, and deer. The deer have become a problem. The animal control people now have to come out and reduce the herd from time to time using airguns to reduce the traffic hazard here.

We are not in the country. It is suburbia here. Out in the country, the wildlife is really increasing. More black bear, deer, rabbits, skunks, spotted owls, eagles, etc. than ever before.

Our temperature spread is nowhere near as great as yours!
We only see about 10 deg F to 90 deg F during our seasonal changes.


Yeah, the cities have a real problem here too. Over in Cedar Rapids they've got a city archery season on whitetail deer. They've been doing that for 10+ years and it's been helping a lot. When they first opened it, the DNR was actually handing out tags in city park areas. You had plug a doe first and then they'd issue you a buck tag if ya wanted. Buddy of mine hunted right on the city golf course in the timber just off the 10th green. I'd like to see the local gov do that in Seattle.

Now the geese are a problem too...crapping all over everything. I think they were going to bring in sharp shooters and fill some food banks with those.

This CO2 is becoming a real problem for the wildlife...they are thriving.


Gasguzzler,
Wildlife might be thriving because of the lack of predators. What ITN described is urban sprawl. Loss of natural habitat causes wildlife to be found in urban areas more often.
Yellowstone National Park re-introduced wolves to restore balance.
Washington State encourages the hunting of big horn sheep so they don't damage the ecosystem by eating all the ground level vegetation that small animals need for food or for shelter (hide) from carnivorous animals.


Lack of predators? We have coyotes, wolves, mountain lions and even black bear inside of the city limits where they have been driven by competition for hunting grounds. Just in the last month we've had pictures on the news of mountain lions in the trees in backyards. Animal Control is not supposed to harm these animals even though they present a clear and present danger to children.

Yeah. We have 'em too. We also have hawks and eagles.


ITN,
If you live near the Puget Sound you don't have many predators. But this is the internet and you can post anything that you like. So much of what you post has nothing to do with reality.
18-08-2017 22:53
Wake
★★★★★
(4031)
Into the Night wrote:
GreenMan wrote:
James_ wrote:
This is where I think research should be done to show how much solar radiation atmospheric gases actually absorb. That's something that hasn't been done. If so then the climate models would be more accurate.


James_, it's not "solar radiation" that atmospheric gases absorb. It is earth radiation that is absorbed. Solar radiation is short wavelength. Earth radiation is long wavelength, which is what greenhouse gases like to get warm with.

And yes, I agree that more testing would be beneficial.


Solar radiation is a wide set of wavelengths. Most surface heating is by infrared light (the bulk of the radiance from the Sun, even though the peak of radiance is visible light).

You cannot heat the surface with a colder gas (2nd law of thermodynamics). You are attempting to describe a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd order by using Magick Photons.

You cannot reduce the radiance of the Earth and use that to increase the temperature of the Earth (Stefan-Boltzmann law).

The Magick Bouncing Photon argument doesn't work.


The overwhelming majority of the Sun's emissions are in the high IR (considered "light") through the visible wavelengths and above. These are what heats the Earth. The Earth emits energy in the very low IR. Since direct heating of any area is for only about 4-5 hours a day around noon (on a clear day) and the Earth is in full emission mode at night it is no surprise that this low IR cannot be detected save by the most sensitive of IR multipliers.
18-08-2017 23:40
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
James_ wrote: If you live near the Puget Sound you don't have many predators.

Near the Salish Sea (Puget Sound) my friend was on a bike, traveling on a gravel backroad. He saw some bumps on the road ahead. Pedaling a bit closer, he saw 4 cougar lying on the road. He turned around & pedaled home, knowing he was prey for the predators. Cougar are expanding in numbers(well over 1000).....bobcats, too. Seeing more weasels, mink.... lots of coyote, black bear (despite chinese poaching around the world for black bear parts).
Edited on 18-08-2017 23:46
19-08-2017 04:28
James_
★★★☆☆
(801)
Litesong,
I guess you and Into the Night have shown where Gasguzzler is right. The environment can take care of itself, no conservation necessary. And you and ITN are a couple, right?
Edited on 19-08-2017 04:52
19-08-2017 06:18
litesong
★★★★★
(2297)
James_ wrote:no conservation necessary.

All the animals mentioned (& many more) needed severe conservation measures to survive. While you're being deluded by your pretend "we need future sigh-ants", you are also deluded by your own "closed eyes" studies.
19-08-2017 07:33
GreenMan
★★★☆☆
(661)
Into the Night wrote:

You cannot heat the surface with a colder gas (2nd law of thermodynamics). You are attempting to describe a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd order by using Magick Photons.

You cannot reduce the radiance of the Earth and use that to increase the temperature of the Earth (Stefan-Boltzmann law).

The Magick Bouncing Photon argument doesn't work.


The gas [air] is warmer than the surface.
Greenhouse gases absorbing some of earth's radiance does not reduce earth's radiance. It just reduces radiance that is leaving the atmosphere and going off into space.
There is no such thing as a Magick Bouncing Photon, AGW Denier.


~*~ GreenMan ~*~

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/leftbehind/index.php
19-08-2017 10:33
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
James_ wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
Wake wrote:
James_ wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GasGuzzler wrote:
ITN wrote;
Ooh yeah. That's when you get the real test of living in the upper midwest!

We may have long gray winters, but we don't get that kind of cold here...ever.

I was thinking about this conversation yesterday....
At my house, I have seen 110 F
I have seen 105 with a dew point of 81. (135ish heat index)
I have also seen -42F. Me and the kids had fun throwing pans of hot water up and watching it freeze in the air.
That is a temp spread of 152F!

I am an avid outdoors man. I live in the timber (yes, in a house) and have 100+acres to hunt and fish. Every year I see more deer, more wild turkey, quail, squirrels, rabbits...you name it. This state is teaming with wildlife. When I was a kid, it was really something special to see a deer in an open field grazing in the evening. Now, I worry something is wrong if I don't see a couple dozen, just on the last mile home. Between me and my son, we can legally take somewhere around 12 deer if we maximized tags, and these critters still keep reproducing. They have even now introduced a pistol season in my state to try an attract a new demographic to help critter control. (bad idea)
I guess my point is simple. Next time some Greenman or the like tries to tell you all the animals will die from a 1-2 degree rise in temp, let him know he's a moron.


I too have been seeing an increase in wildlife around here, particularly black bear, cottontail rabbits, and deer. The deer have become a problem. The animal control people now have to come out and reduce the herd from time to time using airguns to reduce the traffic hazard here.

We are not in the country. It is suburbia here. Out in the country, the wildlife is really increasing. More black bear, deer, rabbits, skunks, spotted owls, eagles, etc. than ever before.

Our temperature spread is nowhere near as great as yours!
We only see about 10 deg F to 90 deg F during our seasonal changes.


Yeah, the cities have a real problem here too. Over in Cedar Rapids they've got a city archery season on whitetail deer. They've been doing that for 10+ years and it's been helping a lot. When they first opened it, the DNR was actually handing out tags in city park areas. You had plug a doe first and then they'd issue you a buck tag if ya wanted. Buddy of mine hunted right on the city golf course in the timber just off the 10th green. I'd like to see the local gov do that in Seattle.

Now the geese are a problem too...crapping all over everything. I think they were going to bring in sharp shooters and fill some food banks with those.

This CO2 is becoming a real problem for the wildlife...they are thriving.


Gasguzzler,
Wildlife might be thriving because of the lack of predators. What ITN described is urban sprawl. Loss of natural habitat causes wildlife to be found in urban areas more often.
Yellowstone National Park re-introduced wolves to restore balance.
Washington State encourages the hunting of big horn sheep so they don't damage the ecosystem by eating all the ground level vegetation that small animals need for food or for shelter (hide) from carnivorous animals.


Lack of predators? We have coyotes, wolves, mountain lions and even black bear inside of the city limits where they have been driven by competition for hunting grounds. Just in the last month we've had pictures on the news of mountain lions in the trees in backyards. Animal Control is not supposed to harm these animals even though they present a clear and present danger to children.

Yeah. We have 'em too. We also have hawks and eagles.


ITN,
If you live near the Puget Sound you don't have many predators.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You are obviously unaware of the animal life we have here!

We have bears (both black and grizzly), wolves, bobcats, mountain lions, eagles, hawks, snakes, orcas, sea lions, coyotes, badgers, ladybugs, praying mantis, owls, racoons, etc. ALL predators. Oh...and of course, man. That's just on the 'wet' side of the mountains.
James_ wrote:
But this is the internet and you can post anything that you like. So much of what you post has nothing to do with reality.


You should really at least look at the wildlife we have here before you make a dumb statement like this.

The point remains: None of them are suffering from carbon dioxide or 'global warming'. Neither are their prey.


The Parrot Killer
19-08-2017 10:38
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
Wake wrote:
Into the Night wrote:
GreenMan wrote:
James_ wrote:
This is where I think research should be done to show how much solar radiation atmospheric gases actually absorb. That's something that hasn't been done. If so then the climate models would be more accurate.


James_, it's not "solar radiation" that atmospheric gases absorb. It is earth radiation that is absorbed. Solar radiation is short wavelength. Earth radiation is long wavelength, which is what greenhouse gases like to get warm with.

And yes, I agree that more testing would be beneficial.


Solar radiation is a wide set of wavelengths. Most surface heating is by infrared light (the bulk of the radiance from the Sun, even though the peak of radiance is visible light).

You cannot heat the surface with a colder gas (2nd law of thermodynamics). You are attempting to describe a perpetual motion machine of the 2nd order by using Magick Photons.

You cannot reduce the radiance of the Earth and use that to increase the temperature of the Earth (Stefan-Boltzmann law).

The Magick Bouncing Photon argument doesn't work.


The overwhelming majority of the Sun's emissions are in the high IR (considered "light") through the visible wavelengths and above.

WRONG. The Sun emits energy all the way down into the radio bands.
Wake wrote:
These are what heats the Earth.

Infrared light is what primarily heats the Earth, true.
Wake wrote:
The Earth emits energy in the very low IR.

Also emitted by the Sun.
Wake wrote:
Since direct heating of any area is for only about 4-5 hours a day around noon (on a clear day)

WRONG. Direct heating takes place as soon as the Sun comes up, and continues through the day. Have you noticed how fast the Earth warms in the morning? Even at six or seven am?

Guess not.

Wake wrote:
and the Earth is in full emission mode at night

The Earth is in full emissions 'mode' all the time. There is no 'mode. The Earth always emits, day or night.
Wake wrote:
it is no surprise that this low IR cannot be detected save by the most sensitive of IR multipliers.

It certainly can. No multipliers needed.


The Parrot Killer
19-08-2017 10:42
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(10196)
litesong wrote:
James_ wrote:no conservation necessary.

All the animals mentioned (& many more) needed severe conservation measures to survive. While you're being deluded by your pretend "we need future sigh-ants", you are also deluded by your own "closed eyes" studies.


Heh. NONE of the animals you mentioned needed conservation efforts to survive.


The Parrot Killer
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