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What is Biogeochemistry?



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13-04-2022 18:36
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21955)
HarveyH55 wrote:
sealover wrote:
AND I forgot phytic acid.

Yes, you can purchase commercial fertilizer with phytic acid as the primary or sole source of phosphorus.

Each molecule of phytic acid contains SIX phosphorus atoms.

This is NOT phosphate phosphorus.

But they are required by law to report it as "% as phosphate".

Don't believe me? Google "phytic acid as fertilizer" or something.

Or take the word of a reflexive naysayer who offers only unsupported contrarian assertions. TO EVERYTHING!

No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

No, it's not.

Yes it is.


BEST DEBATE EVER!

-------------------------------------------------------------------

sealover wrote:
And I forgot UREA.

Another major form of applied nitrogen is UREA.

Urea, O=C=(NH2)2 Two amino groups single bonded to a carbonyl carbon.

Pure urea contains a lot more than just nitrogen. Urea is 46% nitrogen.

Pure urea NPK = 46-0-0 N = 46% as nitrogen.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm just not getting the connection between manure piles, and climate change. Is it the methane or CO2 released, that is destroying the planet, at an alarming rate?

Is it just farm animals that need to be destroyed, to save the planet. Or is it all mammals in general? Or could farmers just stop piling manure for compost?

Any way you look at it, the topic is full of shit.



The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
13-04-2022 19:31
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(5197)
Into the Night wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
sealover wrote:
AND I forgot phytic acid.

Yes, you can purchase commercial fertilizer with phytic acid as the primary or sole source of phosphorus.

Each molecule of phytic acid contains SIX phosphorus atoms.

This is NOT phosphate phosphorus.

But they are required by law to report it as "% as phosphate".

Don't believe me? Google "phytic acid as fertilizer" or something.

Or take the word of a reflexive naysayer who offers only unsupported contrarian assertions. TO EVERYTHING!

No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

No, it's not.

Yes it is.


BEST DEBATE EVER!

-------------------------------------------------------------------

sealover wrote:
And I forgot UREA.

Another major form of applied nitrogen is UREA.

Urea, O=C=(NH2)2 Two amino groups single bonded to a carbonyl carbon.

Pure urea contains a lot more than just nitrogen. Urea is 46% nitrogen.

Pure urea NPK = 46-0-0 N = 46% as nitrogen.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm just not getting the connection between manure piles, and climate change. Is it the methane or CO2 released, that is destroying the planet, at an alarming rate?

Is it just farm animals that need to be destroyed, to save the planet. Or is it all mammals in general? Or could farmers just stop piling manure for compost?

Any way you look at it, the topic is full of shit.


Biogeocoprologist...
14-04-2022 17:09
GretaGroupieProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(350)
IBdaMann wrote:

You sure do know how to match the mood to the face.

And you even transed her (she got as little thingy down there now)!
RE: Hope to encourage FUTURE biogeochemists.27-04-2022 03:03
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
Hope to encourage FUTURE biogeochemists.

Only the tiniest minority of scientists are biogeochemists.

Most people haven't even HEARD of us.

Who IS the world's most famous biogeochemist? (crickets)

On one hand, I am here to offer information as a biogeochemist.

On the other hand, I hope to encourage students to want to learn about it.

It takes twice as long to get the training.

It pays poorly, if you can even find a job.

It is WORTH it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
duncan61 wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment. In particular, biogeochemistry studies the cycles of crucial elements, such as carbon and nitrogen, and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock). The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth, and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle. Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow. Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.

Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments. Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons, where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years. Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas, where its heat-trapping properties affect Earth's climate, or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.

Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency, and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth. Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed, has evolved, is sustained, and is threatened on our planet, and how the various chemical cycles govern and regulate Earth's climate and environment.

Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change and its impacts, enhance agriculture and food production, manage fisheries, mitigate pollution, develop alternative and renewable energy, prevent diseases and create new drugs, and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.

Straight copy and paste.Have at it
27-04-2022 03:15
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14537)
So squeal over is another Pete Rogers ... a preacher who is trying to establish his own church with his own congregation. He is competing for followers.

Pete Rogers came here to establish the Church of Atmospheric Thermal Enhancement while squeal over is trying to poach followers and to build his Church of Biogeochemistry.

As we all know, duncan loves these kinds of religions and currently squeal over is making a play to convert duncan from ATE (should we call that ATEISM?). Maybe we should start a pool?

Unfortunately, such preachers are never smart, and they come to this site as an exercise in futility.

Oh well.

@squeal over, I'm pulling for you with duncan. I've got a heavy wager that you fully convert him because Pete Rogers isn't buzzing around to intimidate.
Attached image:


Edited on 27-04-2022 03:26
27-04-2022 17:27
GretaGroupieProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(350)
sealover wrote:
It pays poorly, if you can even find a job.

You can always work at a diner like me and the tips are good and they are better if you dress as a girl so if you want to work in a diner I recommend you go tranny to make better tips and I can help you with your makup.




27-04-2022 17:34
GretaGroupieProfile picture★★☆☆☆
(350)
IBdaMann wrote:
So squeal over is another Pete Rogers ...

I do not know Peter Rogers but I know Peter Rabbit...



and Roger Rabbit...



and Mr Rogers...


i think they are holding hands and boyfrieds
what a nice inner rashal couple



RE: For an accurate description of biogeochemisty.10-05-2022 23:32
Im a BM
★★★☆☆
(791)
duncan61 wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment. In particular, biogeochemistry studies the cycles of crucial elements, such as carbon and nitrogen, and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock). The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth, and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle. Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow. Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.

Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments. Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons, where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years. Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas, where its heat-trapping properties affect Earth's climate, or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.

Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency, and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth. Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed, has evolved, is sustained, and is threatened on our planet, and how the various chemical cycles govern and regulate Earth's climate and environment.

Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change and its impacts, enhance agriculture and food production, manage fisheries, mitigate pollution, develop alternative and renewable energy, prevent diseases and create new drugs, and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.

Straight copy and paste.Have at it



For an accurate description of biogeochemistry, Duncan61 provided this excellent summary.

"Straight copy and paste." From a credible source.

For those that prefer an incredible source, as in a not credible source, there is nothing incredible about the idiot who posted this one...

Check out the thread: "Biogeochemistry debunked"

This incredible but by no means credible source exposed the whole conspiracy.

Biogeochemistry isn't real.

Birds aren't real.

Don't look up.

And appreciate that Duncan61 offered an excellent and reality-based rebuttal.
11-05-2022 06:30
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21955)
Im a BM wrote:
duncan61 wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment. In particular, biogeochemistry studies the cycles of crucial elements, such as carbon and nitrogen, and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock). The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth, and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle. Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow. Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.

Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments. Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons, where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years. Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas, where its heat-trapping properties affect Earth's climate, or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.

Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency, and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth. Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed, has evolved, is sustained, and is threatened on our planet, and how the various chemical cycles govern and regulate Earth's climate and environment.

Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change and its impacts, enhance agriculture and food production, manage fisheries, mitigate pollution, develop alternative and renewable energy, prevent diseases and create new drugs, and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.

Straight copy and paste.Have at it



For an accurate description of biogeochemistry, Duncan61 provided this excellent summary.

"Straight copy and paste." From a credible source.

For those that prefer an incredible source, as in a not credible source, there is nothing incredible about the idiot who posted this one...

Check out the thread: "Biogeochemistry debunked"

This incredible but by no means credible source exposed the whole conspiracy.

Biogeochemistry isn't real.

Birds aren't real.

Don't look up.

And appreciate that Duncan61 offered an excellent and reality-based rebuttal.

Buzzword fallacies.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
RE: GretaGroupie has been missing for two weeks13-05-2022 20:25
Im a BM
★★★☆☆
(791)
GretaGroupie wrote:
sealover wrote:
It pays poorly, if you can even find a job.

You can always work at a diner like me and the tips are good and they are better if you dress as a girl so if you want to work in a diner I recommend you go tranny to make better tips and I can help you with your makup.



Sweet little GretaGroupie was fun to play word games with.

For a more than a month, she played with us all the time.

She even joined in the tag team poetry sessions, and posted cute pictures to depict the designated scapegoat.

Scapegoat? You know, the one who blames everyone else for his problems.

But GretaGroupie chooses a very dangerous lifestyle.

Going far from home to have sex with strangers carries a lot more risk than just than just getting STDs.

There are some sadistic crazies out there who would just love to find another willing victim.

I genuinely worry about her safety.

Or maybe she found out that she wasn't the only bully here who just wanted to hurt somebody.

Maybe her widdo feewings got vewy huut.
RE: Still happy to answer questions or share your information/comments about BIOGEOCHEMISTRY16-05-2022 02:29
Im a BM
★★★☆☆
(791)
The post below is an excellent summary of biogeochemistry.

I am still happy to answer questions or share your information/comments about BIOGEOCHEMISTRY.

Meanwhile, I'll contribute my limited knowledge of physics to try to shed some light on global warming.

Thermodynamics and that sort of thing.

Not my specialization, but there is a lot of absurd disinformation to debunk on this website.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

duncan61 wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment. In particular, biogeochemistry studies the cycles of crucial elements, such as carbon and nitrogen, and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock). The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth, and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle. Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow. Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.

Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments. Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons, where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years. Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas, where its heat-trapping properties affect Earth's climate, or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.

Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency, and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth. Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed, has evolved, is sustained, and is threatened on our planet, and how the various chemical cycles govern and regulate Earth's climate and environment.

Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change and its impacts, enhance agriculture and food production, manage fisheries, mitigate pollution, develop alternative and renewable energy, prevent diseases and create new drugs, and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.

Straight copy and paste.Have at it
RE: Blood Moon in half an hour - DON'T MISS IT!16-05-2022 05:53
Im a BM
★★★☆☆
(791)
Blood Moon in half an hour - DON'T MISS IT!

I regret that I didn't post this hours sooner.

If you're on the West Coast, you didn't miss it yet.

I should have thought of this sooner.

It would have been a healthy suggestion to encourage East Coast folks to go up out of their Mama's basement to take a peek at the real world tonight.

This only happens once in a blue moon.

Nature is AMAZING!
16-05-2022 07:59
HarveyH55Profile picture★★★★★
(5197)
Im a BM wrote:
Blood Moon in half an hour - DON'T MISS IT!

I regret that I didn't post this hours sooner.

If you're on the West Coast, you didn't miss it yet.

I should have thought of this sooner.

It would have been a healthy suggestion to encourage East Coast folks to go up out of their Mama's basement to take a peek at the real world tonight.

This only happens once in a blue moon.

Nature is AMAZING!


Every full moon has a name like that. About as rare as meteor showers
16-05-2022 12:11
duncan61
★★★★★
(2021)
Meanwhile, I'll contribute my limited knowledge of physics to try to shed some light on global warming.

It was 9 degrees C. This morning.What happens now?Tomorrow we are due a cold front and big storm from the South.Is that humans fault? if so how so.When it plus 40.C here it is usually calm and sunny
16-05-2022 18:18
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21955)
Im a BM wrote:
Sweet little GretaGroupie was fun to play word games with.


So you are here to play word games. You admitted it yourself.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
16-05-2022 18:20
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21955)
Im a BM wrote:
Blood Moon in half an hour - DON'T MISS IT!

I regret that I didn't post this hours sooner.

If you're on the West Coast, you didn't miss it yet.

I should have thought of this sooner.

It would have been a healthy suggestion to encourage East Coast folks to go up out of their Mama's basement to take a peek at the real world tonight.

This only happens once in a blue moon.

Nature is AMAZING!

Not a blue moon this month.

Couldn't see it. Overcast here as always.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
16-05-2022 18:31
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21955)
HarveyH55 wrote:
Im a BM wrote:
Blood Moon in half an hour - DON'T MISS IT!

I regret that I didn't post this hours sooner.

If you're on the West Coast, you didn't miss it yet.

I should have thought of this sooner.

It would have been a healthy suggestion to encourage East Coast folks to go up out of their Mama's basement to take a peek at the real world tonight.

This only happens once in a blue moon.

Nature is AMAZING!


Every full moon has a name like that. About as rare as meteor showers


A Blood Moon is a moon undergoing a lunar eclipse. The Moon is eclipsed by the Sun, leaving it darker and 'blood' colored.

A Blue Moon is the 2nd moon in the same month.

Moons are also named by the month. This moon is also called the Flower Moon, the Planting Moon, or the Milk Moon, depending on your surrounding culture.

Meteor showers are almost continuous. Most are the size of a grain of sand or so. You can actually bound a radio signal off the very brief ionized trail they leave behind when they burn up in Earth's atmosphere.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
16-05-2022 18:32
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21955)
duncan61 wrote:
Meanwhile, I'll contribute my limited knowledge of physics to try to shed some light on global warming.

It was 9 degrees C. This morning.What happens now?Tomorrow we are due a cold front and big storm from the South.Is that humans fault? if so how so.When it plus 40.C here it is usually calm and sunny


What global warming?


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
07-06-2023 02:02
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]duncan61 wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment. In particular, biogeochemistry studies the cycles of crucial elements, such as carbon and nitrogen, and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock). The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth, and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle. Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow. Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.

Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments. Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons, where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years. Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas, where its heat-trapping properties affect Earth's climate, or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.

Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency, and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth. Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed, has evolved, is sustained, and is threatened on our planet, and how the various chemical cycles govern and regulate Earth's climate and environment.

Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change and its impacts, enhance agriculture and food production, manage fisheries, mitigate pollution, develop alternative and renewable energy, prevent diseases and create new drugs, and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.

Straight copy and paste.Have at it
07-06-2023 02:03
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
The biogeochemistry of PHOSPHORUS!

True, most of the emphasis in biogeochemistry has been on the cycling of carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

Phosphorus hasn't gotten the attention it deserves.

Nothing can live without it.

"Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink" from the Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner

Phosphorus is kind of like that.

There is a LOT of phosphorus in soil. Only the TINIEST fraction of it is in bioavailable form that organisms can acquire and use.

Most phosphorus is bound up in rock minerals.

It can be slowly dissolved, especially when organisms put out siderophores or other chelating agents like citric acid to dissolve it.

What happens to the phosphorus that farmers apply?

Most of it gets bound up into forms that are NOT bioavailable.

Phosphorus "fixation" occurs at higher pH when phosphate precipitates out of solution as complexes of calcium or magnesium.

Phosphorus "fixation" occurs at lower pH when phosphate precipitates out of solution with ions of aluminum, iron, or manganese.

And phosphorus "fixation" occurs at lower pH when phosphate is specifically adsorbed to anion exchange sites on the surfaces of solid phase aluminum, iron, or manganese (oxy)hydroxides.

Plants and their associated symbiotic microorganisms fight hard to get the phosphorus while it is bioavailable.

Then they fight to release some of that "fixed" phosphorus by putting out metal complexing organic anions.

The symbiotic partnership between plants and mycorrhizal fungi associated with their roots is one reason plants don't die of thirst because there is

"water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink"

The biogeochemistry of PHOSPHORUS! One of our heroes!
07-06-2023 02:04
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
A magic moment: January 20, 1988

Biogeochemistry is awesomely COOL!

Take one magic moment, for example.

In January, 1988, I was helping write the new grant proposal.

We wanted to justify to the National Science Foundation why they should provide additional funding for the NSF-funded project in progress.

We had been examining the role of organic anions, particularly those of phenol carboxylic acids such as tannins, in forest soil biogeochemistry.

I was compiling a simple list.

They provide cation exchange capacity (CEC).

They ameliorate aluminum toxicity.

They facilitate retention of nutrient cations such as calcium and magnesium.

They maintain nitrogen in a form that cannot be lost from the ecosystem.

They prevent phosphorus fixation and release "fixed" phosphorus in soil.

Then it hit me.

LIKE A BOLT OF LIGHTENING!

All of these were feedbacks that benefitted the plants that produced them.

HOLY COW!

BIOGEOCHEMISTRY IS EFFING AWESOME!!!
07-06-2023 02:05
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
more fun facts about PHOSPHORUS.

The most familiar form of phosphorus is phosphate, a trivalent oxyanion.

Like many other elements, phosphorus has multiple oxidation states.

Phosphate is the most oxidized natural form of phosphorus.

What about those "fire breathing dragons"?

Maybe it was a COW burping up some reduced phosphorus gas, which ignited upon contact with atmospheric oxygen.

The trivalent oxyanion, phosphate, can be used as oxidant by microorganisms under low oxygen conditions.

In a cow's gut, there is plenty of labile organic carbon, just not much oxygen.

With phosphate around, the right bug could make a cow burp something explosive.

Phosphorus is a limiting nutrient in terrestrial ecosystems.

Plants and microorganisms have evolved many tricks to get enough of it.

In SEA WATER, on the other hand, phosphorus is NOT a limiting nutrient.

Iron fertilization might get some response in the sea, but not phosphorus.

In FRESH WATER aquatic ecosystems, phosphorus IS a limiting nutrient.

Part of what inspired the environmental movement in the late 1960s was the impact of phosphates in detergents causing eutrophication, hypoxia, and fish kills in aquatic ecosystems.

The "dead zones" in the ocean are from agricultural NITROGEN, not phosphorus.
07-06-2023 02:06
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
Arsenic, methyl mercury, hexavalent chromium, and lead.

Yes, biogeochemists have focused primarily on the cycling of carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

But other element cycles are important too.

Over a long career, this particular biogeochemist got to research groundwater arsenic by reductive dissolution, generation of methyl by iron reducing bacteria, and generation of hexavalent chromium through abiotic oxidation of chromium(III) by manganese(VII). Was close to lead research, but not a direct participant. Did plenty of sulfate reduction research in groundwater of coastal wetland. But the work that got the most attention was nitrogen and carbon.

For those who never met a biogeochemist of any kind, you can ask questions of a kind of jack-of-all-trades in biogeochemistry.

College rejects, drop outs, and flunk outs can make all the jokes they want about the fake gibber babble buzzwords that obviously don't mean anything.
07-06-2023 02:07
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
"Phosphorus is not a nutrient. It is poisonous to plants."

So, with the NPK fertilizer, the N is nitrogen, the P is poo, and the K potassium.

I had a brief gig as a consultant to a multimillion dollar growing operation.

The guy had one whole greenhouse full of sickly plants.

They had all the symptoms of too little nitrogen and too much phosphorus.

The guy had been fertilizing with the "bloom" formula, heavy on phosphorus but no nitrogen. Not something you use until they are nearly full grown.

It was a very quick job. Just give them some nitrogen.

I'm sure that there is no risk anyone will see the stupid parrot picture and read the stupid words and believe that phosphorus poisons plants.

So what does the "P" stand for on the fertilizer label?

Apparently there are only two kind of phosphorus, red and white. WTF??

Which color phosphorus do they use to make plant food?

Why does white phosphorus burn if it is not reduced and cannot be oxidized?

Anyway, ORTHO PHOSPHATE is the form given to plants.

Organo phosphates are a class of pesticides.

Phytic acid is an ORGANIC phosphorus compound common in soil.

Well, at least the part about cows not being reptiles is correct.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


[quote]Into the Night wrote:


Phosphorous is not phosphate. Phosphate is not a chemical. Phosphorus is.

Phosphate is not a chemical.

A cow is not a reptile.

Phosphate is not a chemical.

Carbon is not organic.

No salt made up of a phosphate is explosive.

Phosphorus is not a nutrient. It is poisonous to plants.

Phosphorus is poisonous to plants.

It is not a nutrient at all.

Iron is not a fertilizer. It is also poisonous to plants.

Phosphorus is not a nutrient.

Phosphate is not a chemical.

Nitrogen is not a phosphate. Neither is phosphorus.
07-06-2023 02:08
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
"Iron is not fertilizer. It is also poisonous to plants."

There are many things that iron is NOT.

Iron is not science. Iron is not God. Iron is not the king.

Iron IS an essential nutrient for plants.

Plants adapted to more acidic soils, such as citrus, have difficulty getting enough iron when planted in near neutral pH soil.

People sometimes apply elemental sulfur to help the citrus get enough iron.

When microorganisms use oxygen to oxidize the elemental sulfur added to the soil, they produce sulfuric acid. With the low pH created by sulfuric acid, the solubility of bioavailable iron increases exponentially.

Another approach is to add aluminum sulfate. Sulfate forms complex ions with iron, dramatically increasing iron bioavailability.

Or you can buy chelated iron. Chelating agents such as EDTA form strong complexes with iron that are soluble and stable and bioavailable.

At high enough concentration, iron CAN be toxic to plants. RARELY HAPPENS.

Iron is a limiting nutrient in many marine ecosystems.

Significant increases in plankton productivity can be accomplished in many parts of the ocean by adding iron fertilizer.

I'm trusting that nobody is dumb enough to take their fertilizer advice from someone who thinks that phosphorus and iron are NOT nutrients, but rather are POISONOUS to plants.

"Iron is not a fertilizer. It is also poisonous to plants." NOT ACCURATE.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[quote]Into the Night wrote:
A cow is not a reptile.

Iron is not a fertilizer. It is also poisonous to plants.

Phosphate is not a chemical.
07-06-2023 02:09
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
Biogeochemistry of Iron - some key points.

With regard to both climate change and ocean "acidification", the biogeochemistry of iron is an important piece of the puzzle.

Large scale geoengineering schemes to fertilize large areas of the ocean with iron are being given serious consideration.

Smaller scale geoengineering schemes to fertilize smaller areas of the ocean with iron have already been implemented and monitored.

These plans generally employ zero valent iron in the smallest particle size possible.

Zero valent iron is what we build railroad tracks with. It is iron that has been chemically reduced from its oxidized ore form. Organic carbon is used as reductant to forge zero valent iron from trivalent ferric iron(III) iron ore.

Finely ground zero valent iron nano particles can be suspended in sea water long enough to fertilize plankton. It works. You can get plankton response.

Zero valent iron is NOT how Mother Nature supplies marine ecosystems with this essential nutrient element.

How does naturally occurring iron in sea water supply marine ecosystems if it is not zero valent iron powder applied by humans?

Besides zero valent steel, iron can be divalent ferrous iron(II) or trivalent ferric iron(III).

With pH just above 8, sea water is not a good solvent for ferric iron. Not at all.

If sea life depended on labile, ferric iron(III) to be soluble as ferric chloride, there would be no sea life.

On the other hand, ferric iron can be complexed by organic anions in solution.

Organically-complexed ferric iron IS soluble at sea water pH.

Ferrous iron(II) is plenty soluble at sea water pH as ferrous chloride.

However, ferrous iron(II) can be readily oxidized by iron oxidizing bacteria in the presence of oxygen. Upon oxidation to ferric iron(III) chloride, the iron precipitates out at sea water pH.

Ferrous iron(II) can be complexed by organic anions in solution.

With its reactive sites occluded through binding to organic ligands, organically complexed ferrous iron(II) cannot be oxidized to ferric iron(III).

In sea water, more than 99% of the iron is organically complexed ferric iron(III) or organically complexed ferrous iron(II).

Final fun fact.

Submarine groundwater discharge from coastal wetlands supplies much of the bioavailable iron to marine ecosystems.

About three fourths of the alkalinity in this submarine groundwater discharge is from bicarbonate ions or, to a much lesser extent, carbonate ions.

About one fourth of the alkalinity in the submarine groundwater discharge from coastal wetlands is comprised of ORGANIC alkalinity.

Organic alkalinity is the acid neutralizing capacity supplied by organic anions.

The same organic anions that complex iron to keep it bioavailable.

And the same low oxygen biogeochemistry that generates bicarbonate and carbonate alkalinity via sulfate reduction also generates dissolved iron via iron reduction.

So the submarine groundwater discharge from the coastal wetlands is a complete treatment supplying alkalinity and bioavailable iron to the sea.

Now, what happens when human activity effs up the hydrology of the coastal wetlands in a way that reduces their output of alkalinity and iron, causing them to instead export ACIDITY to the sea as pyrite oxidation generates sulfuric acid as per formation of acid sulfate soils?

Because that is what is happening. And it is EASY to FIX. VERY INEXPENSIVE.
07-06-2023 02:12
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
Iron Fertilization of the Sea - The Carbon Connection.

So, why fertilize the sea?

The idea is that marine photosynthesis removes carbon dioxide from sea water.

This effectively removes some of the carbonic acid from sea water and shifts the balance to allow higher concentrations of carbonate ion.

Of course, the marine plants die eventually and their organic carbon goes somewhere.

If there is oxygen available, the organic carbon in the dead plants will be oxidized into carbon dioxide. Back to square one.

On the other hand, if there is NO oxygen available, that organic carbon can still be oxidized by bacteria using sulfate or nitrate as oxidants.

This does NOT generate carbon dioxide.

Quite the contrary, sulfate reduction and nitrate reduction transform the organic carbon into inorganic carbon ALKALINITY - bicarbonate and carbonate ions.

This isn't back to square one. This is second win for neutralizing ocean "acidification".

Final thought: Even if we really DO fertilize the sea to remove a whole lot of carbon dioxide from the sea water, it will make very little difference to concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

It WILL help with ocean acidification.

But there is fifty times as much carbon dioxide dissolved in sea water as there is floating as gas in the atmosphere.

We can't possibly fertilize enough plankton to remove enough CO2 from sea water to see atmospheric CO2 concentrations decline in the short run.
07-06-2023 02:14
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
Is the element phosphorus red or white?

Some of our remedial students are having difficulty with the definition of common terms such as "element" and "chemical".

Some of them are off their meds as well.

The word "Phosphorus" appears right on the fertilizer label!

"Labels are not science!"

P is the atomic symbol for phosphorus, but the word phosphorus is not limited to description of elemental phosphorus.

Elemental phosphorus does not exist in free form on earth, red OR white.

Ortho phosphate is the most highly oxidized form of phosphorus in nature.

Someday I might learn the chemistry of fire and oxidation.

Speaking of oxidation, do you even know what a "valence electron" IS?

Somehow, zero valent iron can be countered with some retarded thing about iron having eight valence electrons.

TRIvalent iron = ferric iron = iron(III) = fully oxidized iron.

DIvalent iron = ferrous iron = iron(II) = partially oxidized iron.

ZERO valent iron = Fe(zero) = fully REDUCED iron. Not oxidized at all.

And having "eight valence electrons" is kind of a... Meh.


So, the person who wrote the word "phosphorus" on the fertilizer label as an explanation for the 15% "P" content was SUPPOSED to write "a compound (salt) containing phosphorus"

Gotit!

When will all those idiots learn to start using the right words?

Science is not words.
07-06-2023 02:16
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
NPK Fertilizer Fun Facts.

Let's say the label says NPK 15-15-15.

What does that mean? What are the UNITS?

Supposedly the units are PERCENTAGE, but there is a catch.

Per cent based on WHAT UNITS?

Our local genius has already explained the units for phosphorus.

It is "a compound (salt) containing phosphorus" and supposedly they tell us WHICH SALT on the label.

WRONG!

In the case of phosphorus, the units are percent as PHOSPHATE. PO4.

That may be a specific name for an ion in a salt (phosphate), but the same units would be used if the fertilizer were pure organic compost with 100% of the phosphorus contained as REDUCED phosphorus in ORGANIC compounds (phospho lipids, etc.). They still have to report the units as "% as phosphate".

Let's try nitrogen and potassium, then get back to phosphorus. At least the units for nitrogen in fertilizer are "% as nitrogen". That doesn't mean that fertilizer contains nitrogen gas. The nitrogen is either nitrate, ammonium, or organic nitrogen (amino acids, etc.).

Lets say that we use PURE ammonium nitrate fertilizer.

Would the label say NPK 100-0-0 Nitrogen = "100% as N"?

Actually, the label would say NPK 36-0-0 Nitrogen = "36% as N"

Because the formula for ammonium nitrate is NH4NO3. Nitrogen is only 36% of the mass of each molecule. The rest is oxygen and hydrogen.

Okay, what about POTASSIUM? the label says K = "(X)% as potash".

What the heck is POTASH? I thought I was buying potassium nitrate.

You DID buy potassium nitrate, but they report the potassium content as if you bought potash, K2O. Multiply % as potash by 0.83 to get % as potassium.

Or multiply your known % as potassium (since you have pure potassium nitrate) by 1.2 so you can put the proper label on the fertilizer K as "% as potash".

What if you buy one of those ridiculous ORGANIC fertilizers where nobody added any PHOSPHATE to it?

They are required by law to tell you the phosphorus content "% as phosphate".

But there is ZERO phosphate in the pure organic NPK 6-2-2 formula.

They measure the TOTAL phosphorus in the fertilizer. Then they convert to "% as phosphate" based on dividing the weight of PO4 by the weight of P.

So, NO they do NOT TELL YOU WHAT KIND OF PHOSPHORUS COMPOUND IT IS.

The formula tells you nitrogen "% as N", even though NOBODY applies pure nitrogen.

The formula tells you potassium "% as potash", even though potash, K2O, is rarely an ingredient in commercial fertilizer.

And the formula tells you NOTHING about the "compound (salt) of phosphorus" in the fertilizer, as it may not even have any. The label tells you the EQUIVALENT phosphorus content, "% as phosphate". No phosphate required.

It was a teachable moment for those who eventually read the thread with some interest in the theme of the thread... Some interest beyond a desire to heckle.
07-06-2023 02:16
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
[quote]sealover wrote:
And I forgot UREA.

Another major form of applied nitrogen is UREA.

Urea, O=C=(NH2)2 Two amino groups single bonded to a carbonyl carbon.

Pure urea contains a lot more than just nitrogen. Urea is 46% nitrogen.

Pure urea NPK = 46-0-0 N = 46% as nitrogen.
07-06-2023 02:17
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
sealover wrote:
AND I forgot phytic acid.

Yes, you can purchase commercial fertilizer with phytic acid as the primary or sole source of phosphorus.

Each molecule of phytic acid contains SIX phosphorus atoms.

This is NOT phosphate phosphorus.

But they are required by law to report it as "% as phosphate".

Don't believe me? Google "phytic acid as fertilizer" or something.

Or take the word of a reflexive naysayer who offers only unsupported contrarian assertions. TO EVERYTHING!

No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

No, it's not.

Yes, it is.

No, it's not.

Yes it is.


BEST DEBATE EVER!

-------------------------------------------------------------------

sealover wrote:
And I forgot UREA.

Another major form of applied nitrogen is UREA.

Urea, O=C=(NH2)2 Two amino groups single bonded to a carbonyl carbon.

Pure urea contains a lot more than just nitrogen. Urea is 46% nitrogen.

Pure urea NPK = 46-0-0 N = 46% as nitrogen.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
07-06-2023 02:18
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
Im a BM wrote:
[quote]duncan61 wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment. In particular, biogeochemistry studies the cycles of crucial elements, such as carbon and nitrogen, and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock). The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth, and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle. Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow. Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.

Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments. Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons, where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years. Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas, where its heat-trapping properties affect Earth's climate, or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.

Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency, and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth. Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed, has evolved, is sustained, and is threatened on our planet, and how the various chemical cycles govern and regulate Earth's climate and environment.

Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change and its impacts, enhance agriculture and food production, manage fisheries, mitigate pollution, develop alternative and renewable energy, prevent diseases and create new drugs, and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.

Straight copy and paste.Have at it



For an accurate description of biogeochemistry, Duncan61 provided this excellent summary.

"Straight copy and paste." From a credible source.

For those that prefer an incredible source, as in a not credible source, there is nothing incredible about the idiot who posted this one...

Check out the thread: "Biogeochemistry debunked"

This incredible but by no means credible source exposed the whole conspiracy.

Biogeochemistry isn't real.

Birds aren't real.

Don't look up.

And appreciate that Duncan61 offered an excellent and reality-based rebuttal.
07-06-2023 02:20
James_
★★★★★
(2251)
sealover wrote:
[quote]sealover wrote:
"Iron is not fertilizer. It is also poisonous to plants."

There are many things that iron is NOT.

Iron is not science. Iron is not God. Iron is not the king.

Iron IS an essential nutrient for plants.

Plants adapted to more acidic soils, such as citrus, have difficulty getting enough iron when planted in near neutral pH soil.

People sometimes apply elemental sulfur to help the citrus get enough iron.

When microorganisms use oxygen to oxidize the elemental sulfur added to the soil, they produce sulfuric acid. With the low pH created by sulfuric acid, the solubility of bioavailable iron increases exponentially.

Another approach is to add aluminum sulfate. Sulfate forms complex ions with iron, dramatically increasing iron bioavailability.

Or you can buy chelated iron. Chelating agents such as EDTA form strong complexes with iron that are soluble and stable and bioavailable.

At high enough concentration, iron CAN be toxic to plants. RARELY HAPPENS.

Iron is a limiting nutrient in many marine ecosystems.

Significant increases in plankton productivity can be accomplished in many parts of the ocean by adding iron fertilizer.

I'm trusting that nobody is dumb enough to take their fertilizer advice from someone who thinks that phosphorus and iron are NOT nutrients, but rather are POISONOUS to plants.

"Iron is not a fertilizer. It is also poisonous to plants." NOT ACCURATE.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[quote]Into the Night wrote:
A cow is not a reptile.

Iron is not a fertilizer. It is also poisonous to plants.

Phosphate is not a chemical.



I have a question about sulfur, since it helps plants, do you think plants could
separate sulfur from SOx (sulfur dioxide)? With me, in the stratosphere SOx along
with NOx creates polar stratospheric clouds which decrease ozone enough above Antarctica or the Arctic for it to be considered a hole.
Everyone knows I disagree with the people in here about CO2 and believe that SOx and NOx are the real threats to the environment besides the war in Ukraine and before that Afghanistan and Iraq.
To get back on topic, since plants like sulfur because then iron becomes involved,
is there a chemical process that allows for that? This might be one of those who would've thought moments where SOx might help to fertilize a field which would be good for farmers. That would help to support sustainable farming while creating a "sink" for pollution (sulfur separated from oxygen becomes O2 air).
And if this is possible then it would help to protect the ozone layer. And then we could consider safely lowering CO2 emissions. Wouldn't it be something if farming helped to promote a healthy environment?
Edited on 07-06-2023 02:28
RE: Thank you, Duncan61, for this thread28-04-2024 18:49
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
duncan61 wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment. In particular, biogeochemistry studies the cycles of crucial elements, such as carbon and nitrogen, and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock). The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth, and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle. Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow. Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.

Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments. Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons, where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years. Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas, where its heat-trapping properties affect Earth's climate, or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.

Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency, and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth. Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed, has evolved, is sustained, and is threatened on our planet, and how the various chemical cycles govern and regulate Earth's climate and environment.

Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change and its impacts, enhance agriculture and food production, manage fisheries, mitigate pollution, develop alternative and renewable energy, prevent diseases and create new drugs, and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.

Straight copy and paste.Have at it


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Duncan61 started this thread in response to an absurdly stupid thread that claimed biogeochemistry was some kind of conspiracy started by a Russian guy in the 1930s.

This thread provides accurate information about what biogeochemistry really is.
RE: yes, they benefit the plants that produce them28-04-2024 18:55
sealover
★★★★☆
(1601)
Some examples of how tannins, also known as polyphenols, benefit the plants that produce them through their impact on soil processes.

In the context of evolutionary biology, the fitness benefit or adaptive value is through the "extended phenotype" of the plant. The tannins are no longer attached to the plant when they get into the soil, but they act as part of the plant's phenotype interacting with the environment and other organisms.


sealover wrote:
A magic moment: January 20, 1988

Biogeochemistry is awesomely COOL!

Take one magic moment, for example.

In January, 1988, I was helping write the new grant proposal.

We wanted to justify to the National Science Foundation why they should provide additional funding for the NSF-funded project in progress.

We had been examining the role of organic anions, particularly those of phenol carboxylic acids such as tannins, in forest soil biogeochemistry.

I was compiling a simple list.

They provide cation exchange capacity (CEC).

They ameliorate aluminum toxicity.

They facilitate retention of nutrient cations such as calcium and magnesium.

They maintain nitrogen in a form that cannot be lost from the ecosystem.

They prevent phosphorus fixation and release "fixed" phosphorus in soil.

Then it hit me.

LIKE A BOLT OF LIGHTENING!

All of these were feedbacks that benefitted the plants that produced them.

HOLY COW!

BIOGEOCHEMISTRY IS EFFING AWESOME!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------

duncan61 wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment. In particular, biogeochemistry studies the cycles of crucial elements, such as carbon and nitrogen, and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock). The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth, and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle. Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow. Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.

Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments. Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons, where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years. Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas, where its heat-trapping properties affect Earth's climate, or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.

Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency, and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth. Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed, has evolved, is sustained, and is threatened on our planet, and how the various chemical cycles govern and regulate Earth's climate and environment.

Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change and its impacts, enhance agriculture and food production, manage fisheries, mitigate pollution, develop alternative and renewable energy, prevent diseases and create new drugs, and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.

Straight copy and paste.Have at it
29-04-2024 00:58
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21955)
...repairing quoting problems again...
sealover wrote:
Some examples of how tannins, also known as polyphenols, benefit the plants that produce them through their impact on soil processes.

In the context of evolutionary biology, the fitness benefit or adaptive value is through the "extended phenotype" of the plant. The tannins are no longer attached to the plant when they get into the soil, but they act as part of the plant's phenotype interacting with the environment and other organisms.
What 'impact'???
sealover wrote:
A magic moment: January 20, 1988
The day you first start publishing your shit?
sealover wrote:
Biogeochemistry is awesomely COOL!
No such thing.
sealover wrote:
Take one magic moment, for example.
You already mentioned your magick.
sealover wrote:
In January, 1988, I was helping write the new grant proposal.

We wanted to justify to the National Science Foundation why they should provide additional funding for the NSF-funded project in progress.
Ah. So it was the day you started scamming the government.
sealover wrote:
We had been examining the role of organic anions, particularly those of phenol carboxylic acids such as tannins, in forest soil biogeochemistry.
No such thing as 'biogeochemistry'. An anion is not organic.
sealover wrote:
I was compiling a simple list.

They provide cation exchange capacity (CEC).
No such thing.
sealover wrote:
They ameliorate aluminum toxicity.
Don't eat aluminum. Otherwise, it's not toxic.
sealover wrote:
They facilitate retention of nutrient cations such as calcium and magnesium.
Calcium and magnesium are elements, not cations.
sealover wrote:
They maintain nitrogen in a form that cannot be lost from the ecosystem.
Nitrogen is not lost. There's this thing called 'gravity'.
sealover wrote:
They prevent phosphorus fixation and release "fixed" phosphorus in soil.
Phosphorous is an element.
sealover wrote:
Then it hit me.

LIKE A BOLT OF LIGHTENING!
You should go indoors when a lightning storm is present.
sealover wrote:
All of these were feedbacks that benefitted the plants that produced them.
What 'feedbacks'??? A chemical element is not a 'feedback'.
sealover wrote:
HOLY COW!
I see you worship cows. To me, they are merely a source of food.
sealover wrote:
BIOGEOCHEMISTRY IS EFFING AWESOME!!!
No such thing.
sealover wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline
Not science. Science isn't meaningless buzzwords.
sealover wrote:
that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment.
What about changes to the unnatural environment?
sealover wrote:
In particular, biogeochemistry
No such thing.
sealover wrote:
studies the cycles of crucial elements,
An element is not a cycle.
sealover wrote:
such as carbon and nitrogen,
An element is not a cycle.
sealover wrote:
and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock).
So you believe the elements are Earth, Fire, Air, and Water. You forgot one: Spirit.
sealover wrote:
The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.
An element is not a cycle.
sealover wrote:
A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth,
An element is not a block.
sealover wrote:
and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle.
An element is not a cycle.
sealover wrote:
Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow.
Carbon isn't organic.
sealover wrote:
Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.
Carbon isn't organic.
sealover wrote:
Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments.
Carbon doesn't sink.
sealover wrote:
Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons,
A hydrocarbon is not a rock. You are ignoring the Fischer-Tropsche process again.
sealover wrote:
where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years.
The age of the Earth is unknown. Hydrocarbons can form within minutes.
sealover wrote:
Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas,
Carbon is not a gas.
sealover wrote:
where its heat-trapping properties
It is not possible to trap heat. You are ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics again.
sealover wrote:
affect Earth's climate,
There is no such thing as a global climate. Earth has many climate. Climate cannot change.
sealover wrote:
or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.
Rocks are not carbon.
sealover wrote:
Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency,
The only elements used traditionally as currency is gold and silver. Paper, a carbohydrate, also has been used as currency.
sealover wrote:
and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth.
Chemistry does not cause planets to orbit the Sun.
sealover wrote:
Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed,
The Theory of Abiogenesis is a fundamentalist style religion, that unfortunately carries a serious paradox.
sealover wrote:
has evolved,
The Theory of Evolution is another fundamentalist style religion.
sealover wrote:
is sustained,
Life exists on Earth. It isn't going anywhere.
sealover wrote:
and is threatened on our planet,
It isn't.
sealover wrote:
and how the various chemical cycles govern
Your 'chemistry' is some kind of seriously ****ed up religion filled with meaningless buzzwords and ignores basic principles in chemistry.
sealover wrote:
and regulate Earth's climate
Earth has no global climate. Climates can't be 'regulated'.
sealover wrote:
and environment.
There is no global environment. Environment can't be 'regulated'.
sealover wrote:
Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change
Climate cannot change.
sealover wrote:
and its impacts,
No impacts. Climate cannot change.
sealover wrote:
enhance agriculture and food production,
Combine harvester.
sealover wrote:
manage fisheries,[quote]sealover wrote:
mitigate pollution,
What is this 'pollution'? What is it 'polluting'? Buzzword fallacy and chanting from the Church of Green scripture.
sealover wrote:
develop alternative and renewable energy,
Already developed. Both oil and natural gas are renewable energy, for example. Define 'alternative energy'.
sealover wrote:
prevent diseases
Sanitation.
sealover wrote:
and create new drugs,
Elements do not create drugs.
sealover wrote:
and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.
Elements are not capitalism.


Climate cannot change.
Climate cannot change.
Climate cannot change.
Climate cannot change.
Climate cannot change.
Climate cannot change.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
RE: a definition that makes sense01-05-2024 22:24
Im a BM
★★★☆☆
(791)
This is a nice summary of what biogeochemistry means to actual scientists operating in the real world.

Thank you Duncan,

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


duncan61 wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment. In particular, biogeochemistry studies the cycles of crucial elements, such as carbon and nitrogen, and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock). The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth, and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle. Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow. Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.

Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments. Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons, where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years. Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas, where its heat-trapping properties affect Earth's climate, or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.

Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency, and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth. Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed, has evolved, is sustained, and is threatened on our planet, and how the various chemical cycles govern and regulate Earth's climate and environment.

Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change and its impacts, enhance agriculture and food production, manage fisheries, mitigate pollution, develop alternative and renewable energy, prevent diseases and create new drugs, and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.

Straight copy and paste.Have at it
01-05-2024 23:23
IBdaMannProfile picture★★★★★
(14537)
Im a BM wrote: This is a nice summary of what biogeochemistry means to "actual scientists" operating in the real world.

Too funny. When you write "actual scientists" you are referring to your religious clergy.

You don't even know the difference between science and religion because you don't even know what science is.
RE: NPK ain't shit without the P02-05-2024 08:12
Im a BM
★★★☆☆
(791)
The biogeochemistry of PHOSPHORUS!

True, most of the emphasis in biogeochemistry has been on the cycling of carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

Phosphorus hasn't gotten the attention it deserves.

Nothing can live without it.

"Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink" from the Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner

Phosphorus is kind of like that.

There is a LOT of phosphorus in soil. Only the TINIEST fraction of it is in bioavailable form that organisms can acquire and use.

Most phosphorus is bound up in rock minerals.

It can be slowly dissolved, especially when organisms put out siderophores or other chelating agents like citric acid to dissolve it.

What happens to the phosphorus that farmers apply?

Most of it gets bound up into forms that are NOT bioavailable.

Phosphorus "fixation" occurs at higher pH when phosphate precipitates out of solution as complexes of calcium or magnesium.

Phosphorus "fixation" occurs at lower pH when phosphate precipitates out of solution with ions of aluminum, iron, or manganese.

And phosphorus "fixation" occurs at lower pH when phosphate is specifically adsorbed to anion exchange sites on the surfaces of solid phase aluminum, iron, or manganese (oxy)hydroxides.

Plants and their associated symbiotic microorganisms fight hard to get the phosphorus while it is bioavailable.

Then they fight to release some of that "fixed" phosphorus by putting out metal complexing organic anions.

The symbiotic partnership between plants and mycorrhizal fungi associated with their roots is one reason plants don't die of thirst because there is

"water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink"

The biogeochemistry of PHOSPHORUS! One of our heroes!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[quote]duncan61 wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment. In particular, biogeochemistry studies the cycles of crucial elements, such as carbon and nitrogen, and their interactions with other substances and organisms as they move through Earth's atmosphere, hydrosphere (water and ice), biosphere (life), and lithosphere (rock). The field focuses especially on the diverse and interlinked chemical cycles that are either driven by or have an impact on biological activity, in particular carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

A prime example is carbon, the building block of life on Earth, and the planet-encompassing carbon cycle. Photosynthetic plants on land and sea take carbon dioxide (a form of inorganic carbon) from the atmosphere and convert it into the organic forms of carbon they need to live and grow. Animals that consume the plants incorporate the organic carbon into their own bodies.

Microbes eventually decompose dead plants and animals, and their carbon is recycled into soils and groundwater or swept into the oceans, where it becomes available to microbes and phytoplankton at the base of the marine food chain or it sinks and is buried in seafloor sediments. Over millions of years, carbon that is buried on land or at the bottom of the ocean becomes incorporated into rocks or hydrocarbons, where it might remain for tens to hundreds of millions of years. Ultimately, volcanoes return some of this carbon to the air as gas, where its heat-trapping properties affect Earth's climate, or else the rocks containing carbon are uplifted onto continents and gradually weathered, releasing their carbon back to the environment and making it available to organisms once again.

Why is it Important?
In a sense, chemicals are like currency, and biogeochemistry is the study of the nearly limitless "transactions" that drive the entire planetary system, including life on Earth. Understanding these fundamental processes provides crucial insights into how life formed, has evolved, is sustained, and is threatened on our planet, and how the various chemical cycles govern and regulate Earth's climate and environment.

Such knowledge enhances our ability to find ways to adapt to climate change and its impacts, enhance agriculture and food production, manage fisheries, mitigate pollution, develop alternative and renewable energy, prevent diseases and create new drugs, and spur innovations that can drive economic prosperity and improve our quality of life.

Straight copy and paste.Have at it
02-05-2024 10:07
Into the NightProfile picture★★★★★
(21955)
Im a BM wrote:
The biogeochemistry of PHOSPHORUS!

No such word.
Im a BM wrote:
True, most of the emphasis in biogeochemistry has been on the cycling of carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and phosphorus.

No such word.
Im a BM wrote:
Phosphorus hasn't gotten the attention it deserves.

Phosphorus doesn't need attention. YOU do.
Im a BM wrote:
Nothing can live without it.

Phosphorus is toxic.
Im a BM wrote:
"Water water everywhere and not a drop to drink" from the Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner

Phosphorus is kind of like that.

Phosphorus is toxic.
Im a BM wrote:
There is a LOT of phosphorus in soil. Only the TINIEST fraction of it is in bioavailable form that organisms can acquire and use.

Phosphorus does not occur naturally.
Im a BM wrote:
Most phosphorus is bound up in rock minerals.

Phosphorus is not phosphate.
Im a BM wrote:
It can be slowly dissolved, especially when organisms put out siderophores or other chelating agents like citric acid to dissolve it.

Phosphorus does not dissolve in citric acid.
Im a BM wrote:
What happens to the phosphorus that farmers apply?

Farmers don't use phosphorus. It destroys crops.
Im a BM wrote:
Most of it gets bound up into forms that are NOT bioavailable.

Phosphorus is toxic.
Im a BM wrote:
Phosphorus "fixation" occurs at higher pH when phosphate precipitates out of solution as complexes of calcium or magnesium.

Phosphate is not phosphorus.
Im a BM wrote:
Phosphorus "fixation" occurs at lower pH when phosphate precipitates out of solution with ions of aluminum, iron, or manganese.

Phosphate is not phosphorus.
Im a BM wrote:
And phosphorus "fixation" occurs at lower pH when phosphate is specifically adsorbed to anion exchange sites on the surfaces of solid phase aluminum, iron, or manganese (oxy)hydroxides.

Phosphate is not phosphorus.
Im a BM wrote:
Plants and their associated symbiotic microorganisms fight hard to get the phosphorus while it is bioavailable.

Phosphorus is toxic.
Im a BM wrote:
Then they fight to release some of that "fixed" phosphorus by putting out metal complexing organic anions.

Phosphorus is not a metal.
Im a BM wrote:
The symbiotic partnership between plants and mycorrhizal fungi associated with their roots is one reason plants don't die of thirst because there is

"water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink"

The biogeochemistry of PHOSPHORUS! One of our heroes!

Phosphorus is toxic. It kills plants.
Im a BM wrote:
Biogeochemistry is a relatively new scientific discipline that explores the physical, chemical, biological, and geological processes and reactions that govern the composition of and changes to the natural environment.

No such word.


The Parrot Killer

Debunked in my sig. - tmiddles

Google keeps track of paranoid talk and i'm not on their list. I've been evaluated and certified. - keepit

nuclear powered ships do not require nuclear fuel. - Swan

While it is true that fossils do not burn it is also true that fossil fuels burn very well - Swan
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