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What do you do when you can't engage people to discuss climate change?



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What do you do when you can't engage people to discuss climate change?21-06-2019 01:40
bootesvoid
☆☆☆☆☆
(2)
Whenever I bring up the subject I just get blank stares, slight scowls and people just refusing to discuss the issue of climate change.

What does it take to finally convince them climate change isn't a hoax?


I am amazed at the wide spread indifference!

[branner: two duplicate threads merged]
Edited by branner on 21-06-2019 23:54
RE: .21-06-2019 02:17
L8112
★☆☆☆☆
(106)
my advice would be to bolt from this forum as there are a group of devoted climate change deniers who will lay to waste any conversations on the topic, and will dismiss any sort of evidence from credible institutions such as NASA, not with counter facts but with non sequitur statements or hand waving. They learned this tactic from their father Blanald Flump- deception, constantly speaking falsehoods, and then lying ad infinitum is how the script goes. Currently Flump and his cronies are in the process of staging yet another false flag attack to kick start a war with Iran, because they have oil, and also the US needs to sell more bombs and guns-war as a form of commerce. Iran is the last ripe fruit to be picked off, a war with China might be enticing if they didnt also have nukes, so the decision has been made: Iran. This is what the US has been doing for decades.. But thats another topic.
Edited on 21-06-2019 02:19
21-06-2019 02:19
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1173)
bootesvoid wrote:
Whenever I bring up the subject I just get blank stares, slight scowls and people just refusing to discuss the issue of climate change.

What does it take to finally convince them climate change isn't a hoax?


I am amazed at the wide spread indifference!


A lot of people watch the Al Gore award winning movie, got excited for a while. Pretty much everyone of his predictions, projections, and prophesies turned out false. Mostly, we see only normal weather events, that have been going on since the beginning of written history. Maybe most people don't really get into all the many intricate details, but the have an intuitive feeling, that something isn't quite right. Mostly, it's presented as many scams, you are asked for money, and you have to do it, right now, or you are going to miss out on a great deal. It's a gamble, and the payoff doesn't really make it worth the risk, or the cost to get in on it.

For me, the concentration of CO2, 0.04%, of the 260 billion cubic miles of atmosphere, is an extremely tiny number. One degree celsius temperature increase, spread out over more than a hundred years, is tiny. The relationship and correlation between the two, is extremely complex. Makes no sense to me, how anyone would have noticed, or put it together. Both the CO2 content and temperature, can't be measured on a global scale, the approximation would have a margin of error, that greatly exceeds the numbers being discussed. They are talking about very small numbers, but need highly precise measurements, many of which weren't possible 50 years ago.

CO2 is an essential gas, critical to life on this planet. All life on earth, is centered around carbon. We get the carbon from the foods we consume. The only thing pulling carbon out of the environment, are plants, which get the carbon from CO2. Everything else eats plants, or something that eat plants. Plants do well in a warmer climate, and much higher levels of CO2. Climate Change wish to reduce and limit atmospheric CO2, which is bad for plants, reduces available food. I don't buy that 0.04% is a crisis, when plants do incredibly well in greenhouses augment with 1-3% CO2. The a huge shift in decimal places. Easy enough to verify online, or locally, if you have commercial greenhouses, since that extra CO2 is cheap, but the results are amazing. Plants grow fast, strong, healthier, all things great to boost profits.

Sometimes, science guys get it wrong. Might look interesting and exciting on a computer screen, but just doesn't pan out in reality. Climate Change is one of those things.
21-06-2019 02:25
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1173)
L8112 wrote:
my advice would be to bolt from this forum as there are a group of devoted climate change deniers who will lay to waste any conversations on the topic, and will dismiss any sort of evidence from credible institutions such as NASA, not with counter facts but with non sequitur statements or hand waving. They learned this tactic from their father Blanald Flump- deception, constantly speaking falsehoods, and then lying ad infinitum is how the script goes. Currently Flump and his cronies are in the process of staging yet another false flag attack to kick start a war with Iran, because they have oil, and also the US needs to sell more bombs and guns-war as a form of commerce. Iran is the last ripe fruit to be picked off, a war with China might be enticing if they didnt also have nukes, so the decision has been made: Iran. This is what the US has been doing for decades.. But thats another topic.


You do realize, that you just used the same tactics, you just described? Name calling is juvenile, usually resorted to, when you have nothing compelling or factual to offer. You appeal to popularity, over valid arguments, not very convincing...
RE: .21-06-2019 02:31
L8112
★☆☆☆☆
(106)
Mostly, we see on a while. Most people watch events, and the been his presents, and you are got excited out the Al Gore and you are an in only much the risk, or you have award winning of written got of written history. Most people doesn't quitive feeling isn't quitive feeling on a gamble, going to ally get in on since the payoff do it worth the been his presents, you are going only many into get in only now, or the have the costly, weat have to get in on since the payoff doesn't really normal weather

CO2, 0.04%, of CO2 complex. Makes of the numbers, but overy small numbers between the approximation of CO2, 0.04%, or more together. Both the concents, many numbers ago. For put need out over me, how an a manyone degreatly tiny. They are increatly preasuremely exceeds that gree contentration would highly pread on would have a hundred have number. One would have a global scale, theren't being about it to me, the no sense the numbers any number. One would highly correlation between the number.

O2. CO2. Everything pulling the reduces. CO2. The carbon out of things grow fast, sincredibly well ince amazing. Plants, when plants, crisis, stronment, since that the for something else enough to life on from thing carbon. We get thing that extra CO2, which get thing carbon out of that earth, is augmential greenhouses a huge wish to verything. Plants, or plants, redibly well life onlings grow fast, sincredibly thier, and much get the on essenteredibly well limal plants, which higher levelse eat
21-06-2019 02:53
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1173)
L8112 wrote:
Mostly, we see on a while. Most people watch events, and the been his presents, and you are got excited out the Al Gore and you are an in only much the risk, or you have award winning of written got of written history. Most people doesn't quitive feeling isn't quitive feeling on a gamble, going to ally get in on since the payoff do it worth the been his presents, you are going only many into get in only now, or the have the costly, weat have to get in on since the payoff doesn't really normal weather

CO2, 0.04%, of CO2 complex. Makes of the numbers, but overy small numbers between the approximation of CO2, 0.04%, or more together. Both the concents, many numbers ago. For put need out over me, how an a manyone degreatly tiny. They are increatly preasuremely exceeds that gree contentration would highly pread on would have a hundred have number. One would have a global scale, theren't being about it to me, the no sense the numbers any number. One would highly correlation between the number.

O2. CO2. Everything pulling the reduces. CO2. The carbon out of things grow fast, sincredibly well ince amazing. Plants, when plants, crisis, stronment, since that the for something else enough to life on from thing carbon. We get thing that extra CO2, which get thing carbon out of that earth, is augmential greenhouses a huge wish to verything. Plants, or plants, redibly well life onlings grow fast, sincredibly thier, and much get the on essenteredibly well limal plants, which higher levelse eat


This has got to be the work of some sort of computer program, gone wrong. This is the second incoherent post, of similar construction. The errors aren't consistent with impairment. Doubtful it's done intentionally, but then again, I don't understand Global Warming either...
21-06-2019 05:11
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4611)
bootesvoid wrote:Whenever I bring up the subject I just get blank stares, slight scowls and people just refusing to discuss the issue of climate change.

All missionaries of different religions encounter that. You'll find that most people don't want to discuss your religion. They just aren't into it like you are.

bootesvoid wrote: What does it take to finally convince them climate change isn't a hoax?

Post your science.

What? You don't have any? Of course you don't. Global Warming is a religion. There is no science supporting any religion.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
21-06-2019 06:09
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1392)
L8112 wrote:
Mostly, we see on a while. Most people watch events, and the been his presents, and you are got excited out the Al Gore and you are an in only much the risk, or you have award winning of written got of written history. Most people doesn't quitive feeling isn't quitive feeling on a gamble, going to ally get in on since the payoff do it worth the been his presents, you are going only many into get in only now, or the have the costly, weat have to get in on since the payoff doesn't really normal weather

CO2, 0.04%, of CO2 complex. Makes of the numbers, but overy small numbers between the approximation of CO2, 0.04%, or more together. Both the concents, many numbers ago. For put need out over me, how an a manyone degreatly tiny. They are increatly preasuremely exceeds that gree contentration would highly pread on would have a hundred have number. One would have a global scale, theren't being about it to me, the no sense the numbers any number. One would highly correlation between the number.

O2. CO2. Everything pulling the reduces. CO2. The carbon out of things grow fast, sincredibly well ince amazing. Plants, when plants, crisis, stronment, since that the for something else enough to life on from thing carbon. We get thing that extra CO2, which get thing carbon out of that earth, is augmential greenhouses a huge wish to verything. Plants, or plants, redibly well life onlings grow fast, sincredibly thier, and much get the on essenteredibly well limal plants, which higher levelse eat


I'd actually like to see what you have to say.. Try prof reading. You can always edit. At the moment it make about as much sense as CO2 causing the planet to warm up.


I think people screw me over because they don't want to see someone willing to put out the effort that they won't.~James~
RE: .21-06-2019 07:18
L8112
★☆☆☆☆
(106)
HarveyH55 wrote:
You do realize, that you just used the same tactics, you just described? Name calling is juvenile, usually resorted to, when you have nothing compelling or factual to offer. You appeal to popularity, over valid arguments, not very convincing...

unlike you im not trying to convince you of anything, just solidify your h8tred
Edited by branner on 21-06-2019 23:49
21-06-2019 19:57
GasGuzzler
★★★★☆
(1392)
L8112 wrote:
unlike you im not trying to convince you of anything, just solidify your h8tred


You are asking me to pay for what you believe in. If you are going to support the theft of money from people that earned it to pay for aqny "fix", then I would hope you could convince me of A) what is happening, and B, why it is happenning and C) what the fix is and why I should pay for it


I think people screw me over because they don't want to see someone willing to put out the effort that they won't.~James~
Edited on 21-06-2019 19:57
21-06-2019 21:34
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
bootesvoid wrote:
Whenever I bring up the subject I just get blank stares, slight scowls and people just refusing to discuss the issue of climate change.

What does it take to finally convince them climate change isn't a hoax?


I am amazed at the wide spread indifference!


Several things must happen:

* Define 'climate change'. This is so far a meaningless buzzword.
* Define 'global warming'. This is so far a meaningless buzzword.
* Falsify the 1st law of thermodynamics. This will require showing that it is possible to utterly destroy energy or that you can create energy out of nothing.
* Falsify the 2nd law of thermodynamics. This will require showing that entropy does in fact decrease in a closed system. One way to do this is to show that you can heat a warmer object with a colder one.
* Falsify the Stefan-Boltzmann law. This will require showing that you can decrease light emitted from the same or increasing thermal energy (so-called blackbody radiance) from the same surface.

Only by accomplishing ALL of these requirements will it be possible to construct a theory concerning 'climate change' or 'global warming' that may be a theory of science.

Until you do so, 'climate change' is a hoax.


The Parrot Killer
21-06-2019 21:38
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
HarveyH55 wrote:
L8112 wrote:
Mostly, we see on a while. Most people watch events, and the been his presents, and you are got excited out the Al Gore and you are an in only much the risk, or you have award winning of written got of written history. Most people doesn't quitive feeling isn't quitive feeling on a gamble, going to ally get in on since the payoff do it worth the been his presents, you are going only many into get in only now, or the have the costly, weat have to get in on since the payoff doesn't really normal weather

CO2, 0.04%, of CO2 complex. Makes of the numbers, but overy small numbers between the approximation of CO2, 0.04%, or more together. Both the concents, many numbers ago. For put need out over me, how an a manyone degreatly tiny. They are increatly preasuremely exceeds that gree contentration would highly pread on would have a hundred have number. One would have a global scale, theren't being about it to me, the no sense the numbers any number. One would highly correlation between the number.

O2. CO2. Everything pulling the reduces. CO2. The carbon out of things grow fast, sincredibly well ince amazing. Plants, when plants, crisis, stronment, since that the for something else enough to life on from thing carbon. We get thing that extra CO2, which get thing carbon out of that earth, is augmential greenhouses a huge wish to verything. Plants, or plants, redibly well life onlings grow fast, sincredibly thier, and much get the on essenteredibly well limal plants, which higher levelse eat


This has got to be the work of some sort of computer program, gone wrong. This is the second incoherent post, of similar construction. The errors aren't consistent with impairment. Doubtful it's done intentionally, but then again, I don't understand Global Warming either...


At the least, I suspect that English is not his native language. There do seem to be some Asiatic constructs in his sentences, similar to the Chinese languages.


The Parrot Killer
21-06-2019 22:00
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
L8112 wrote:
my advice would be to bolt from this forum

Running away doesn't make the argument go away.
L8112 wrote:
as there are a group of devoted climate change deniers

Define 'climate change'. What do you think I'm denying?
L8112 wrote:
who will lay to waste any conversations on the topic,

You aren't having any.
L8112 wrote:
and will dismiss any sort of evidence from credible institutions such as NASA,

Void argument fallacy. Compositional error fallacy involving people as the class: bigotry. NASA has some credible data and some that is not credible.
L8112 wrote:
not with counter facts

There is no such thing as a 'counter fact'. I believe you mean a counter argument.
L8112 wrote:
but with non sequitur statements or hand waving.

Shifting the burden of proof fallacy, coupled with a void argument fallacy. What do you believe is being discarded?
L8112 wrote:
They learned this tactic from their father Blanald Flump-

Who's that? My sir name is not Flump and my father's name is not Blanald.
L8112 wrote:
deception,

Void argument fallacy. What deception is being conducted, and over what argument? What false predicate is being used?
L8112 wrote:
constantly speaking falsehoods,

This is just the same as calling someone a liar. Argument of the Stone fallacy.
L8112 wrote:
and then lying ad infinitum is how the script goes.

Argument of the Stone fallacy. Fallacy fallacy. False authority fallacy. What script?
L8112 wrote:
Currently Flump and his cronies are in the process of staging yet another false flag attack to kick start a war with Iran,

Redirection fallacy. This is a forum concerning climate debate, not a war with Iran or with anybody else.
L8112 wrote:
because they have oil,

So do we. Indeed, we have more oil then they do.
L8112 wrote:
and also the US needs to sell more bombs and guns

Nah. We make our own. Better quality.
L8112 wrote:
-war as a form of commerce.

Not a good one. People would rather buy productive things like computers, wheat, plastics, oil, etc., rather than buy unproductive things like warfare. Both guns and bombs have unproductive and well as productive uses.
L8112 wrote:
Iran is the last ripe fruit to be picked off,

Nah. Iran is conducting piracy at sea, and has already declared war with the United States.
L8112 wrote:
a war with China might be enticing if they didnt also have nukes,

No war is enticing.
L8112 wrote:
so the decision has been made: Iran. This is what the US has been doing for decades.. But thats another topic.

But you brought it up, even though this is a forum about climate. I suggest that you have a lot of trouble staying on topic.


The Parrot Killer
21-06-2019 22:01
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
L8112 wrote:
unlike you im not trying to convince you of anything, just solidify your h8tred


Fallacy fallacy. Void argument fallacy. What hatred?


The Parrot Killer
22-06-2019 03:21
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1173)
L8112 wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
You do realize, that you just used the same tactics, you just described? Name calling is juvenile, usually resorted to, when you have nothing compelling or factual to offer. You appeal to popularity, over valid arguments, not very convincing...

unlike you im not trying to convince you of anything, just solidify your h8tred


Hatred of what? I'd hate Climatologist, they can believe anyway they choose, I respect that right. I don't like being forced to get involved in their belief system, or paying for their paranoid projects. I have a different belief, but not seeing my rights being respected in that regard. I don't believe there is a crisis, least where the environment is concerned, I do believe there will be some serious financial and economic impact, if the call for more reckless spending is left unchallenged.
22-06-2019 21:05
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
HarveyH55 wrote:
L8112 wrote:
HarveyH55 wrote:
You do realize, that you just used the same tactics, you just described? Name calling is juvenile, usually resorted to, when you have nothing compelling or factual to offer. You appeal to popularity, over valid arguments, not very convincing...

unlike you im not trying to convince you of anything, just solidify your h8tred


Hatred of what? I'd hate Climatologist, they can believe anyway they choose, I respect that right. I don't like being forced to get involved in their belief system, or paying for their paranoid projects. I have a different belief, but not seeing my rights being respected in that regard. I don't believe there is a crisis, least where the environment is concerned, I do believe there will be some serious financial and economic impact, if the call for more reckless spending is left unchallenged.


It's one thing to have freedom of belief as a right.

It's quite another when one tries to force their belief upon other by force of law or even by Argument of the Stick fallacies.

This fallacy occurs when one tries to convince others of their argument by the use of threats or intimidation.

Increasing your taxes to be spent upon another's religion IS an argument of the stick fallacy imposed by government (by a law).

Fortunately, Trump is removing some of the decades of crap the Democrats have been piling on this way.


The Parrot Killer
22-06-2019 22:36
James___
★★★★☆
(1468)
bootesvoid wrote:
Whenever I bring up the subject I just get blank stares, slight scowls and people just refusing to discuss the issue of climate change.

What does it take to finally convince them climate change isn't a hoax?


I am amazed at the wide spread indifference!

[branner: two duplicate threads merged]



People do not have sufficient intellectual capacity to consider what history has shown us and what raw data suggests. Most people also do not understand the history of which some scientists have argued for CO2 based climate change.
People rely on emotions when responding to stimuli. Into the Night, Harvey55 and most people are prime examples of this phenomena. If you as ITN, he is a philosopher which in simple terms is a bullsh1tter. His logic is infallible. It is not possible for him to be wrong because his philosophy is based on logic.
A simple logic my brothers taught me. If Into the Night believes that 2 + 2 = 5. He is right. It would be what he believes. And logic is based on what an individual believes to be true.
23-06-2019 01:03
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1173)
James___ wrote:
bootesvoid wrote:
Whenever I bring up the subject I just get blank stares, slight scowls and people just refusing to discuss the issue of climate change.

What does it take to finally convince them climate change isn't a hoax?


I am amazed at the wide spread indifference!

[branner: two duplicate threads merged]



People do not have sufficient intellectual capacity to consider what history has shown us and what raw data suggests. Most people also do not understand the history of which some scientists have argued for CO2 based climate change.
People rely on emotions when responding to stimuli. Into the Night, Harvey55 and most people are prime examples of this phenomena. If you as ITN, he is a philosopher which in simple terms is a bullsh1tter. His logic is infallible. It is not possible for him to be wrong because his philosophy is based on logic.
A simple logic my brothers taught me. If Into the Night believes that 2 + 2 = 5. He is right. It would be what he believes. And logic is based on what an individual believes to be true.


What does the raw data actually show us? How was it collected during the period being observed? The margin of error is very large, and the amount of change very small, which makes it an entirely subjective interpretation. I just tend to interpret it differently.

I think it would be a much bigger man-made crisis, by following all the proposed changes, the climatologist believe will save the planet, in a few hundred years, if they are correct, in both the cause, and the cure. The problem remains a subjective interpretation, of a data set, that could be looked at in other ways. I just don't have any confidence in any of it, just guess. My guess, it's BS.

From history, I gather that large reptiles inhabited much of the planet. Reptiles we find today, are larger in the warmer climates, smaller in cooler climates, non-existent in the cold climates. I interpret this to mean that the whole planet was warmer, before the ice age, that killed most of the giants. Seems reasonable to me, and nobody was burning fossil fuels, yet. Large animals, have large appetites. I believe plants to be the most basic food source. Carnivores eat herbivores, which eat plants... Plants also like a warm climate, and higher levels of CO2, much higher than the IPCC predicts in a hundred years or so, if we don't change our sinful ways, right now. Warmer climate, more CO2, means more food, something the world can certainly use today. The 'plan' is to reduce CO2, by reducing energy use, which is going to have an impact on food production, and transportation to those who need it most. Less CO2, will also put us back to weaker crop yields. CO2 augmentation is well documented, and a common practice in greenhouses. It's even quite popular for the pot growers, since it speeds up production considerably, higher potency, larger yields, for the space they have to grow.

But mostly, a few hundred years, on a maybe, is ridiculous. Nobody lives that long, and nobody is going to remember us that long off anyway. Whole lot of other catastrophes can plague this planet, in that time span as well. We still play with nuclear weapons, biological weapons, fool around with DNA. There are plans for messing around with asteroids, move them around, do a little mining. What happens to earth, if huge piece of one of those rocks, impacts with planet Earth? Some fairly large meteors have done some decent damage over the years, and tiny compared to an asteroid. There are volcanoes all over the planet, some are considered active, even though they haven't erupted in a very long time, like Mt St. Helens in 1980. The snow-cap mountain I grew up on was consider active, rumbled occasionally, few places vent gas, hot springs up there a ways. Wouldn't be a shame to make all those changes, reduce all that CO2, and suffer a huge setback, because those volcanoes got real angry?

I don't think the threat of a slightly warmer climate in the next few hundred years, is anything to get excited about. Why worry about something, that may never happen, or something worse comes before? It's just not the sort of thing, that people need to be made to suffer, change radically the way they live their lives.

Suppose you found a surgeon, who agreed to remove your colon, as you want. But after the surgery, and you heal up, you find out it didn't work out as well as you hoped. You still have the same problems as before, plus you gave yourself a new one. You can't replace the colon, you are stuck with the bag for life, so what next, more surgery?
23-06-2019 08:11
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
James___ wrote:
bootesvoid wrote:
Whenever I bring up the subject I just get blank stares, slight scowls and people just refusing to discuss the issue of climate change.

What does it take to finally convince them climate change isn't a hoax?


I am amazed at the wide spread indifference!

[branner: two duplicate threads merged]



People do not have sufficient intellectual capacity to consider what history has shown us and what raw data suggests.
Void argument fallacy. What history? What data?
James___ wrote:
Most people also do not understand the history of which some scientists have argued for CO2 based climate change.
What scientists? Define 'climate change'.
James___ wrote:
People rely on emotions when responding to stimuli. Into the Night, Harvey55 and most people are prime examples of this phenomena.

Science isn't emotions, James.
James___ wrote:
If you as ITN, he is a philosopher which in simple terms is a bullsh1tter.
Philosophy is not bullshit, James.
James___ wrote:
His logic is infallible.
Not my logic. Logic is a closed system just like mathematics. I didn't invent it.
James___ wrote:
It is not possible for him to be wrong because his philosophy is based on logic.
WRONG. Philosophy is based on philosophy. It its own branch of knowledge. It is simply a few simple rules for presenting arguments.
James___ wrote:
A simple logic my brothers taught me. If Into the Night believes that 2 + 2 = 5. He is right. It would be what he believes. And logic is based on what an individual believes to be true.

Making shit up again? I don't claim 2+2=5 and never did.


The Parrot Killer
23-06-2019 08:57
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4611)
Into the Night wrote:Making shit up again? I don't claim 2+2=5 and never did.

It's actually one of several of IBDaMann's theorems of great fame.

2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

Another is:

The limit of a Physics student as GPA -> 0 is a degree in liberal arts.

I put a lot of work into them.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
23-06-2019 18:34
L8112
★☆☆☆☆
(106)
Its funny that you troll buddies claim to have no agenda-just 'facts', yet also discard any 'facts' that conflict with your beliefs. Data is no longer a required thing in scientific exploration, apparently, as it is readily discarded if it conflicts with your views. The reason for doing this is because it suits you, and you have nothing to counter it, so you say any data that doesn't support your worldview is a conspiracy. The dictionary definition of cognitive dissonance.

If data collected from any institution or government agency is immediately discarded as part of a global conspiracy, then what is the measure by which you study anything? If the criteria is 'it has to suite my belief, otherwise, **** you', then you have revealed your true intent and motives. There is a reason that there is no data coming out of any universities that is compelling towards the idea that climate change is a hoax, and this is all natural. The reason is because it doesn't exist beyond the confines of opinionated news outlets, online forums, or obscure webpages.
Cherry picking the 1/100 studies that conclude 'it could be natural variance' is being dishonest and deceptive, while ignoring the other 99 that say we are experiencing abrupt changes to the planets climate, and a stable climate is the only thing keeping this whole show going.

Capitalism and humans have removed themselves from nature, and created a thing that is no longer a part of nature, which in fact consumes and uses anything and everything for the purpose of monetary profit and human greed and self seeking. Since you hate those goddamned glaciers , and your brain immediately refuses any information saying unprecedented ice melt is occurring, why not look at another nature system in a state of collapse-the amazon. When 12% of atmospheric oxygen is produced by rainforests, and the amazon produces a large chunk of that, and has lost 800,000 square kilometers since 1970-over 20%, you dismiss this as non-important. Or 60% decline in certain insect populations-not important, fake news (as such 'news' was collected via scientists actually out in the field studying these systems data, this gives you the queue to not 'believe' it). You then ask for 'studies' or articles to back up these claims, when such articles or studies are produced in abundance you say "typical appeal to authority, more fake news". Like a fractal of uncertainty : data---->fake news, yet says with no 'evidence' or data, is also fake news. Because you are part of the chaotic system undergoing collapse, then it comes as no surprise that this applies to your mental state and beliefs as well, which is also undergoing chaotic collapse into complete randomness.

The accumulation of illusory wealth is more important than actual wealth, which is a healthy ecosystem and people who are not always at each other's throats trying to kill each other. Wealth to you is an ego trip wherin you hope to be perceived by others in a certain way, 'look at me', selfless service is unfathomable to you, because you are filled with hatred and anger. My anger is justified, yours is not. Just look at the leader of commerce-the president of the US-as the perfect example of its fruits. Someone incapable of anything other than his own self interests-deceptive, cruel, stupid, obstinate, lies incessantly. Yet when 22 women accuse him of rape or sexual assault, they are all the liars, not the man who lies so much he doesn't even realize he is doing it, not the man who said on tape how he just 'grabs women by the pussy'. The point here is, you idolize this man because he resonates with you, you are that- disharmonic degenerates who are no longer part of nature. As such the chaotic variable is being eliminated in a de-evolution event known as the holocene extinction.

For example, 'into the night' will jump in with his usual long winded rants where he tap dances like a monkey, and claims to be unbiased, yet has 'parrot killer' as his mantra -a badge of honor, because he is as I said a pile of genetic trash. Similarly, trump and the oil corporations see these numbers, know it is happening, yet instead of doing anything, they try their utmost to spread disinformation and denial because to do anything would mean losing money, and the goal of commerce is to accumulate as much for your self as possible, to seek self gratification and aggrandizement at the expense of everything and anything-including the planet which has nursed you from monkey prototypes to so called 'wise apes'. If the definition for wise is the stupidity to kill the planet which gives you life and enforce its destruction with hatred, cruelty, brutality , then the title is fitting.
Edited on 23-06-2019 18:50
23-06-2019 22:06
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
L8112 wrote:
Its funny that you troll buddies claim to have no agenda-just 'facts', yet also discard any 'facts' that conflict with your beliefs.

You have just demonstrated that you don't know what the word 'fact' means. A 'fact' is not a Universal Truth.

Theories of science are facts of science. You can't just discard them.
L8112 wrote:
Data is no longer a required thing in scientific exploration,

It never was. Science isn't exploration. Science isn't data. Science is a set of falsifiable theories.
L8112 wrote:
apparently, as it is readily discarded if it conflicts with your views.

I discard any data that doesn't meet my standards. For a detailed look at what those standards are see the Data Mine thread in this forum, especially the first two posts of that thread. You can also view it here.
L8112 wrote:
The reason for doing this is because it suits you, and you have nothing to counter it, so you say any data that doesn't support your worldview is a conspiracy. The dictionary definition of cognitive dissonance.

Dictionaries don't define words. No dictionary owns any word. False authority fallacy. I simply don't accept any old pile of numbers as valid data. My standards for accepting data as valid is simply higher than yours.
L8112 wrote:
If data collected from any institution or government agency is immediately discarded as part of a global conspiracy, then what is the measure by which you study anything?
If the criteria is 'it has to suite my belief, otherwise, **** you', then you have revealed your true intent and motives.

Data isn't a study. A study isn't data. Data is the result of an observation. All observations are subject to the problems of phenomenology. Then there also the folks that just make up random numbers and call it 'data'.
L8112 wrote:
There is a reason that there is no data coming out of any universities that is compelling towards the idea that climate change is a hoax, and this is all natural.

Certainly there is a reason. There is no data.
L8112 wrote:
The reason is because it doesn't exist beyond the confines of opinionated news outlets, online forums, or obscure webpages.

No, it doesn't exist.

* It is not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth.
* It is not possible to measure the total snow and ice content on Earth.
* It is not possible to measure a global sea level.
* It is not possible to measure a global atmospheric CO2 content.
* It is not possible to measure the number of insects on Earth.
* It is not possible to measure the amount of animal life on Earth.
* It is not possible to measure the amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by plant activity, or the amount of oxygen released by this process, or the amount of carbohydrates on Earth.
* It is not possible to measure how much CO2 is naturally occurring vs how much is produced by man's activities.

We don't have sufficient instrumentation for any of these values.

L8112 wrote:
Cherry picking the 1/100 studies that conclude 'it could be natural variance' is being dishonest and deceptive, while ignoring the other 99 that say we are experiencing abrupt changes to the planets climate, and a stable climate is the only thing keeping this whole show going.

Studies aren't data. Data isn't studies. Science is neither studies nor data. Science is a set of falsifiable theories. You are attempting to claim some magickal 'data' that falsifies the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law. You are STILL trying to deny these theories of science.
L8112 wrote:
Capitalism and humans have removed themselves from nature, and created a thing that is no longer a part of nature,

No. We are part of nature.
L8112 wrote:
which in fact consumes and uses anything and everything for the purpose of monetary profit and human greed and self seeking.

Then you don't understand capitalism at all. You've been believing the Marxist crap.
L8112 wrote:
Since you hate those goddamned glaciers , and your brain immediately refuses any information saying unprecedented ice melt is occurring,

I like glaciers. That's why I visit Glacier Natl park, not too far a drive for me. I also enjoy the glaciers on the mountains around Seattle. Some are receding, some are growing. That's what glaciers do.

Ice melts every summer. It returns every winter. Nothing unprecedented about that!
L8112 wrote:
why not look at another nature system in a state of collapse-the amazon.

The word 'Amazon' is a proper noun. It is capitalized.
L8112 wrote:
When 12% of atmospheric oxygen is produced by rainforests, and the amazon produces a large chunk of that, and has lost 800,000 square kilometers since 1970-over 20%, you dismiss this as non-important.

Argument from randU falllacies. The Amazon river system is the same size it was before. I dismiss your random numbers.
L8112 wrote:
Or 60% decline in certain insect populations-not important, fake news (as such 'news' was collected via scientists actually out in the field studying these systems data, this gives you the queue to not 'believe' it).

Argument from randU fallacy. It is not possible to measure the insect population of Earth.
L8112 wrote:
You then ask for 'studies' or articles to back up these claims, when such articles or studies are produced in abundance you say "typical appeal to authority, more fake news". Like a fractal of uncertainty : data---->fake news, yet says with no 'evidence' or data, is also fake news. Because you are part of the chaotic system undergoing collapse, then it comes as no surprise that this applies to your mental state and beliefs as well, which is also undergoing chaotic collapse into complete randomness.

Word salad. Try English. It works better. Buzzword fallacy.
L8112 wrote:
The accumulation of illusory wealth is more important than actual wealth,

There is no such thing as 'illusory' wealth. There is simply wealth. Money is not wealth. It is only a transaction medium.
L8112 wrote:
which is a healthy ecosystem

Buzzword fallacy. Define 'healthy ecosystem'.
L8112 wrote:
and people who are not always at each other's throats trying to kill each other.

But plants and animals that are trying to kill each other is okay, yes?
L8112 wrote:
Wealth to you is an ego trip wherin you hope to be perceived by others in a certain way, 'look at me', selfless service is unfathomable to you,

Commerce doesn't occur without selfless service. Neither does capitalism. This is perhaps why you are not wealthy. You are not selfless.
L8112 wrote:
because you are filled with hatred and anger.

Nah. This is YOU.
L8112 wrote:
My anger is justified,

No, it isn't.
L8112 wrote:
yours is not.

I am not angry.
L8112 wrote:
Just look at the leader of commerce-the president of the US-as the perfect example of its fruits.

No, commerce is the leader of commerce. It requires no government official. Commerce leads itself.
L8112 wrote:
Someone incapable of anything other than his own self interests-deceptive, cruel, stupid, obstinate, lies incessantly. Yet when 22 women accuse him of rape or sexual assault, they are all the liars,

They are liars. The courts dismissed their cases with prejudice. In some cases, some of those women are in jail now for committing perjury in open court.
L8112 wrote:
not the man who lies so much he doesn't even realize he is doing it, not the man who said on tape how he just 'grabs women by the pussy'.

Obviously you have never grabbed a women by the pussy. You don't get any sex. You must feel very lonely. Maybe its your anger and hate.
L8112 wrote:
The point here is, you idolize this man because he resonates with you,

Trump is not a god. He is the President of the United States. He is doing a good job. I will vote for him again in 2020.
L8112 wrote:
you are that- disharmonic degenerates who are no longer part of nature. As such the chaotic variable is being eliminated in a de-evolution event known as the holocene extinction.

Word salad. Buzzword fallacy. Try English. It works better.
L8112 wrote:
For example, 'into the night' will jump in with his usual long winded rants where he tap dances like a monkey,

Monkeys don't tap dance. They don't like wearing shoes.
L8112 wrote:
and claims to be unbiased,

I am biased. So are you. I am biased against people that quote random numbers and try to call it 'data'. I am biased against people that deny theories of science.
L8112 wrote:
yet has 'parrot killer' as his mantra -a badge of honor,

And well earned. I kill parrots for entertainment purposes.
L8112 wrote:
because he is as I said a pile of genetic trash.

You don't even know my genetics. Did you know there is no trash pickup for genetics?
L8112 wrote:
Similarly, trump

'Trump' is a proper noun. It is capitalized.
L8112 wrote:
and the oil corporations see these numbers,

What numbers? Void argument fallacy.
L8112 wrote:
know it is happening,

Like what? Void argument fallacy.
L8112 wrote:
yet instead of doing anything,

About what? Void argument fallacy.
L8112 wrote:
they try their utmost to spread disinformation and denial because to do anything would mean losing money,

Denial of what? Disinformation about what? Void argument fallacies.

Did you know that any corporation is REQUIRED to try to make a profit by law?
L8112 wrote:
and the goal of commerce is to accumulate as much for your self as possible, to seek self gratification and aggrandizement at the expense of everything and anything

Commerce has no goal. It simply exists.
L8112 wrote:
including the planet which has nursed you from monkey prototypes to so called 'wise apes'. If the definition for wise is the stupidity to kill the planet which gives you life and enforce its destruction with hatred, cruelty, brutality , then the title is fitting.

You must be very depressed and angry. The planet is still here. It's not dying.


The Parrot Killer
24-06-2019 05:06
HarveyH55
★★★★☆
(1173)
What's with all the anger? If he doesn't like it here, has nothing to offer, beside anger and frustration, why continue? Ranting like a lunatic isn't going convince anybody to change their views, more the opposite. Is this what joining the flock does to people?

Actually, I tend to believe that he's angry, more at himself. He see's the more tangible truth here, it's not about taking a lot on faith, that climatologist know what they are selling. Everything he reads here, makes good logical sense, and he can actually look it all up himself. Climatology, you only have what the experts feed you, and you just have to close your mind, and believe. The truth can be overwhelming at first, frustrating. Hard to admit you were mislead. Cults can be very powerful, some never recover.
24-06-2019 06:03
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4611)
L8112 wrote: Its funny that you troll buddies claim to have no agenda-just 'facts',

I was very clear. I go exclusively with science.

You have been very clear. You avoid science at all costs.

L8112 wrote: Cherry picking the 1/100 studies that conclude 'it could be natural variance' is being dishonest and deceptive,

Correct. No one should be referencing "studies" in the first place. "Studies" aren't science; they are someone's documented opinion. Who cares about the opinion of a scientifically illiterate moron?

I go exclusively with science. You avoid science and waste your time with "studies."

L8112 wrote: Because you are part of the chaotic system undergoing collapse, then it comes as no surprise that this applies to your mental state and beliefs as well, which is also undergoing chaotic collapse into complete randomness.

Historic low unemployment. Recent tax reform. Many new Peruvian restaurants opening up. If this is "collapse" then please give me more of it.

L8112 wrote: My anger is justified, yours is not.

That's a fact, right? Clearly it's not just your opinion, right?

L8112 wrote: Someone incapable of anything other than his own self interests-deceptive, cruel, stupid, obstinate, lies incessantly.

You're projecting again.

L8112 wrote: Yet when 22 women accuse him of rape or sexual assault, they are all the liars,

Yes, false accusations earn the label of "liar," regardless of the number of people who manufacture the false accusations.

L8112 wrote:The point here is, you idolize this man because he resonates with you,

Historic low unemployment. Recent tax reform. Many new Peruvian restaurants opening up. Yes, I idolize this guy.

L8112 wrote: For example, 'into the night' will jump in with his usual long winded rants where he tap dances like a monkey,

You are projecting again. His responses are typically one-liners. You're the one who rants and raves for paragraphs at a time.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
24-06-2019 12:35
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
HarveyH55 wrote:
What's with all the anger? If he doesn't like it here, has nothing to offer, beside anger and frustration, why continue? Ranting like a lunatic isn't going convince anybody to change their views, more the opposite. Is this what joining the flock does to people?

Unfortunately, yes.
HarveyH55 wrote:
Actually, I tend to believe that he's angry, more at himself.

No, he's angry that not everyone here will join him in his Holy Cause.
HarveyH55 wrote:
He see's the more tangible truth here, it's not about taking a lot on faith, that climatologist know what they are selling. Everything he reads here, makes good logical sense, and he can actually look it all up himself. Climatology, you only have what the experts feed you, and you just have to close your mind, and believe. The truth can be overwhelming at first, frustrating. Hard to admit you were mislead. Cults can be very powerful, some never recover.

Fundamentalism doesn't care about any arguments except their own. It becomes their entire life. It consumes them. To leave it would be to create a tremendous void in their life.

It can be argued that they already have such a void and that such a fundamentalist belief is only a weak attempt to fill it.


The Parrot Killer
Edited on 24-06-2019 12:38
18-07-2019 10:21
tmiddles
★★★★☆
(1103)
L8112 wrote:
my advice would be to bolt from this forum as there are a group of devoted climate change deniers who will lay to waste any conversations on the topic, and will dismiss any sort of evidence from credible institutions such as NASA, .


Well said!
18-07-2019 17:07
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4611)
tmiddles wrote:
L8112 wrote:
my advice would be to bolt from this forum as there are a group of devoted climate change deniers who will lay to waste any conversations on the topic, and will dismiss any sort of evidence from credible institutions such as NASA, .


Well said!


So, tmiddles, which is it. Should you be bolting from this forum or should you be getting it going again?

Were you under the impression that science was prohibited on this forum? Were you expecting hatred for science to be coddled?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-07-2019 03:25
tmiddles
★★★★☆
(1103)
IBdaMann wrote:


I'm not interested in talking to you. Leave me alone please. This is just harassment
19-07-2019 03:49
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4611)
tmiddles wrote:I'm not interested in talking to you. Leave me alone please. This is just harassment

I realized that you were not interested in talking to me by about your third post. I believe I pegged you for a preacher soon after your arrival.

Tell me something I don't know ... that is actually correct, that is.

Show THIS LINK to your parents the next time you emerge from the basement.

https://shameproofparenting.com/make-it-safe-5-ways-to-create-a-safe-space-in-your-home/


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
19-07-2019 04:52
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
tmiddles wrote:
IBdaMann wrote:


I'm not interested in talking to you. Leave me alone please. This is just harassment


Look, snowflake. You don't get to dictate who will respond your posts. You are not special. Your desire for a safe space is not going to be found anywhere. Sooner or later, you WILL have to face your life and your religion.


The Parrot Killer
19-07-2019 05:45
tmiddles
★★★★☆
(1103)
Into the Night wrote:You don't get to dictate who will respond your posts.


& IBdaMann

Just don't talk to ME, address someone else. I have no interest in what either of you have to say.

Also know that I'm never talking to you about the topics here related to CLIMATE DEBATE.

I do hope you'll be decent and stop engaging in the harassment you're so known for.

You two killed this board.
19-07-2019 05:48
tmiddles
★★★★☆
(1103)
Is seems this thread is the only one currently relevant to the board. How sad.
19-07-2019 07:07
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
tmiddles wrote:
Into the Night wrote:You don't get to dictate who will respond your posts.


& IBdaMann

Just don't talk to ME, address someone else. I have no interest in what either of you have to say.

I'll respond who I want to, snowflake.
tmiddles wrote:
Also know that I'm never talking to you about the topics here related to CLIMATE DEBATE.

You'd rather just whine and say you're something special, eh?
tmiddles wrote:
I do hope you'll be decent and stop engaging in the harassment you're so known for.

Inversion fallacy. It is YOU that is just whining and throwing insults around.
tmiddles wrote:
You two killed this board.

Far from it.


The Parrot Killer
19-07-2019 07:07
Into the Night
★★★★★
(9226)
tmiddles wrote:
Is seems this thread is the only one currently relevant to the board. How sad.


Far from it.


The Parrot Killer
19-07-2019 18:38
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4611)
tmiddles wrote: Is seems this thread is the only one currently relevant to the board. How sad.

I'm glad Branner hired you to determine what was "relevant" on this board. Remind me to compliment him on his choice of consultants.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-07-2019 06:02
tmiddles
★★★★☆
(1103)
L8112 wrote:
If data collected from any institution or government agency is immediately discarded as part of a global conspiracy,


Hope you come back L8112

If global warming was occurring in the Matrix Neo could still talk about it, how the theories did or didn't add up. Ultimately honestly perusing any truth can be very fruitful.
22-07-2019 06:37
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4611)
tmiddles wrote:If global warming was occurring in the Matrix Neo could still talk about it, how the theories did or didn't add up.

If global warming were occurring in the Matrix Neo could still unambiguously define all his terms so his theories could add up.


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
22-07-2019 06:44
tmiddles
★★★★☆
(1103)
tmiddles wrote:
L8112 wrote:
If data collected from any institution or government agency is immediately discarded as part of a global conspiracy,


Hope you come back L8112

If global warming was occurring in the Matrix Neo could still talk about it, how the theories did or didn't add up. Ultimately honestly perusing any truth can be very fruitful.


Fingers crossed you return.
22-07-2019 07:00
IBdaMann
★★★★★
(4611)
tmiddles wrote:
tmiddles wrote:
L8112 wrote:
If data collected from any institution or government agency is immediately discarded as part of a global conspiracy,


Hope you come back L8112

If global warming was occurring in the Matrix Neo could still talk about it, how the theories did or didn't add up. Ultimately honestly perusing any truth can be very fruitful.


Fingers crossed you return.

You are responding to your own post. Are you hoping you come back?


Global Warming: The preferred religion of the scientifically illiterate.

Ceist - I couldn't agree with you more. But when money and religion are involved, and there are people who value them above all else, then the lies begin. - trafn

You are completely misunderstanding their use of the word "accumulation"! - Climate Scientist.

The Stefan-Boltzman equation doesn't come up with the correct temperature if greenhouse gases are not considered - Hank

:*sigh* Not the "raw data" crap. - Leafsdude

IB STILL hasn't explained what Planck's Law means. Just more hand waving that it applies to everything and more asserting that the greenhouse effect 'violates' it.- Ceist
27-07-2019 10:51
Mrs Wiggles
☆☆☆☆☆
(9)
bootesvoid wrote:
Whenever I bring up the subject I just get blank stares, slight scowls and people just refusing to discuss the issue of climate change.

What does it take to finally convince them climate change isn't a hoax?


I am amazed at the wide spread indifference!

[branner: two duplicate threads merged]


Simple, don't worry about it. Changing opinions on anything takes a while. Whilst I am concerned, most people of my age know they will be dead before the impact really bothers us. Human beings by nature are pretty selfish, so they won't really care about the generations that follow. Opinions and concerns are changing quickly, so don't worry yourself about those who don't care.
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