Welcome to Subscription Hell, Where What You Bought Is Owned By Someone Else

Patricio wrote:
There was once a time — children, gather close around the cathode-ray tube — when you bought something, and then, brace yourselves, you owned it.

You bought a car, and the car belonged to you. You bought a stereo, and no corporation in Munich or Palo Alto reserved the right to remotely deactivate the bass because your "Premium Sonic Experience Package" had expired at midnight. You bought Microsoft Office once every six years, installed it from a shiny plastic disc, and that was the end of the relationship. No monthly tribute. No digital landlord. No software feudalism.

Now?

Now your refrigerator wants a login.

Your television demands an account.

Your printer behaves like a narcotics addict shaking in an alleyway because it cannot "verify" the cyan cartridge you bought from a non-approved vendor in Des Moines.

Even the automobile — once the roaring symbol of American independence — has become a rolling extortion racket with heated seats locked behind a subscription plan. Heated seats! The damned seats are physically already in the car. You paid for the machinery. You are merely renting permission from a server farm in Stuttgart to warm your own backside.

And this metastasizing lunacy has spread everywhere because corporations discovered the holiest phrase in modern capitalism:

"Recurring revenue."

To the executives, it sounds like angels singing. To the consumer, it sounds like a burglar setting up permanent residency in your wallet.

Streaming services. Cloud storage. Password managers. News sites. Music apps. Navigation apps. Photo editing apps. Antivirus apps. Meditation apps. Water-tracking apps. Somewhere, at this very moment, a venture capitalist is probably trying to invent Subscription Oxygen™ — "for just $14.99 a month, enjoy uninterrupted premium breathing."

And naturally, they all use the same smug language. You are no longer buying products. Oh no. You are entering an "ecosystem." You are "unlocking experiences." You are "joining a community."

Translation: they want an annuity siphoned directly from your checking account until the heat death of the universe.

The old capitalist bargain was straightforward: make a good product, sell it at a fair price, and if people liked it, they'd come back.

That required effort.

This new model requires captivity.

Because Wall Street no longer wants customers. Customers are erratic. Customers make decisions. Customers can leave. What investors want now are hostages — monthly recurring hostages shackled to auto-pay.

And thus every object in your life is slowly being converted into a toll booth.

The car companies want subscriptions.

The software companies want subscriptions.

The coffee companies want subscriptions.

At this rate, Procter & Gamble will partner with Ford so your dashboard can display:

"Your Charmin+ Platinum Ultra account has expired. Wiping functionality unavailable."

And somewhere in Silicon Valley, some morally vacant twenty-eight-year-old in a fleece vest will call this "disruption."

No. It is not disruption.

They are renting civilization back to the people who already paid for it. Methinks the public doth protest not nearly enough.

Patricio wrote:
There was once a time — children, gather close around the cathode-ray tube — when you bought something, and then, brace yourselves, you owned it.

You bought a car, and the car belonged to you. You bought a stereo, and no corporation in Munich or Palo Alto reserved the right to remotely deactivate the bass because your "Premium Sonic Experience Package" had expired at midnight. You bought Microsoft Office once every six years, installed it from a shiny plastic disc, and that was the end of the relationship. No monthly tribute. No digital landlord. No software feudalism.

Now?

Now your refrigerator wants a login.

Patricio wrote:
Your television demands an account.

Patricio wrote:
Your printer behaves like a narcotics addict shaking in an alleyway because it cannot "verify" the cyan cartridge you bought from a non-approved vendor in Des Moines.

Patricio wrote:
Even the automobile — once the roaring symbol of American independence — has become a rolling extortion racket with heated seats locked behind a subscription plan. Heated seats! The damned seats are physically already in the car. You paid for the machinery. You are merely renting permission from a server farm in Stuttgart to warm your own backside.

Patricio wrote:
And this metastasizing lunacy has spread everywhere because corporations discovered the holiest phrase in modern capitalism:

"Recurring revenue."

Patricio wrote:
To the executives, it sounds like angels singing. To the consumer, it sounds like a burglar setting up permanent residency in your wallet.

Streaming services.

Patricio wrote:
Cloud storage.

Patricio wrote:
Password managers.

Patricio wrote:
News sites.

Patricio wrote:
Music apps.

Patricio wrote:
Navigation apps.

Patricio wrote:
Photo editing apps.

Patricio wrote:
Antivirus apps.

Patricio wrote:
Meditation apps.

Patricio wrote:
Water-tracking apps.

Patricio wrote:
Somewhere, at this very moment, a venture capitalist is probably trying to invent Subscription Oxygen™ — "for just $14.99 a month, enjoy uninterrupted premium breathing."

Patricio wrote:
And naturally, they all use the same smug language. You are no longer buying products. Oh no. You are entering an "ecosystem." You are "unlocking experiences." You are "joining a community."

Patricio wrote:
Translation: they want an annuity siphoned directly from your checking account until the heat death of the universe.

Patricio wrote:
The old capitalist bargain was straightforward: make a good product, sell it at a fair price, and if people liked it, they'd come back.

Patricio wrote:
That required effort.

Patricio wrote:
This new model requires captivity.

Patricio wrote:
Because Wall Street no longer wants customers.

Patricio wrote:
Customers are erratic. Customers make decisions. Customers can leave.

Patricio wrote:
What investors want now are hostages — monthly recurring hostages shackled to auto-pay.

Patricio wrote:
And thus every object in your life is slowly being converted into a toll booth.

Patricio wrote:
The car companies want subscriptions.

Patricio wrote:
The software companies want subscriptions.

Patricio wrote:
The coffee companies want subscriptions.

Patricio wrote:
At this rate, Procter & Gamble will partner with Ford so your dashboard can display:

"Your Charmin+ Platinum Ultra account has expired. Wiping functionality unavailable."

And somewhere in Silicon Valley, some morally vacant twenty-eight-year-old in a fleece vest will call this "disruption."

No. It is not disruption.

Patricio wrote:
They are renting civilization back to the people who already paid for it. Methinks the public doth protest not nearly enough.

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:
There was once a time — children, gather close around the cathode-ray tube — when you bought something, and then, brace yourselves, you owned it.

You bought a car, and the car belonged to you. You bought a stereo, and no corporation in Munich or Palo Alto reserved the right to remotely deactivate the bass because your "Premium Sonic Experience Package" had expired at midnight. You bought Microsoft Office once every six years, installed it from a shiny plastic disc, and that was the end of the relationship. No monthly tribute. No digital landlord. No software feudalism.

Now?

Now your refrigerator wants a login.

My refrigerator has no screen, wants no login, and isn't even connected to any network.
If you want to buy a refrigerator like that, it is YOUR problem.

Patricio wrote:
Your television demands an account.

Nope. My television does not require any login either. It is connected to the internet and bluetooth.

Patricio wrote:
Your printer behaves like a narcotics addict shaking in an alleyway because it cannot "verify" the cyan cartridge you bought from a non-approved vendor in Des Moines.

Nope. My printer does not require a login. This is really a problem with Hewlett-Packard. Get a better printer.

Patricio wrote:
Even the automobile — once the roaring symbol of American independence — has become a rolling extortion racket with heated seats locked behind a subscription plan. Heated seats! The damned seats are physically already in the car. You paid for the machinery. You are merely renting permission from a server farm in Stuttgart to warm your own backside.

Nope. My seat heaters only require 12v.

Patricio wrote:
And this metastasizing lunacy has spread everywhere because corporations discovered the holiest phrase in modern capitalism:

"Recurring revenue."

Don't want it? Don't buy it! No one is forcing you into any net service.

Patricio wrote:
To the executives, it sounds like angels singing. To the consumer, it sounds like a burglar setting up permanent residency in your wallet.

Streaming services.

You bought into it, and now you are complaining? Whiner.

Patricio wrote:
Cloud storage.

You bought into it, and now you are complaining? Whiner.

Patricio wrote:
Password managers.

Don't pay for one.

Patricio wrote:
News sites.

Who needs 'em? They are just propaganda sites anyway.

Patricio wrote:
Music apps.

Nope. I can happily listen to any of my music without paying anything.

Patricio wrote:
Navigation apps.

Nope. The maps I have loaded are just fine. I don't pay for new maps unless I want them. Roads don't really change that fast.

Aviation maps I get from the US government.

Patricio wrote:
Photo editing apps.

Can't use Gimp, eh?

Patricio wrote:
Antivirus apps.

Don't need them.

Patricio wrote:
Meditation apps.

Don't need them. If you want to meditate, you don't need an app for that!

Patricio wrote:
Water-tracking apps.

WTF? If I have a leak, I fix it.

Patricio wrote:
Somewhere, at this very moment, a venture capitalist is probably trying to invent Subscription Oxygen™ — "for just $14.99 a month, enjoy uninterrupted premium breathing."

Sounds like you are paranoid.

Patricio wrote:
And naturally, they all use the same smug language. You are no longer buying products. Oh no. You are entering an "ecosystem." You are "unlocking experiences." You are "joining a community."

Meh. That useless buzzword again (ecosystem).

Patricio wrote:
Translation: they want an annuity siphoned directly from your checking account until the heat death of the universe.

Don't want it? Don't buy into it! It really is pretty simple.

Patricio wrote:
The old capitalist bargain was straightforward: make a good product, sell it at a fair price, and if people liked it, they'd come back.

It is still just that way.

Patricio wrote:
That required effort.

Yes it does. Even providing all those cloud services you hate requires effort.

Patricio wrote:
This new model requires captivity.

You are in a prison of your own making. No one forced you there.

Patricio wrote:
Because Wall Street no longer wants customers.

Wall Street is a road. Capitalism is not a road.

Patricio wrote:
Customers are erratic. Customers make decisions. Customers can leave.

They certainly can. You can leave the cloud too, if you want to.

Patricio wrote:
What investors want now are hostages — monthly recurring hostages shackled to auto-pay.

Like I said...you are in a prison of your own making. No one is requiring you to sign up for auto-pay.

Patricio wrote:
And thus every object in your life is slowly being converted into a toll booth.

You truly are paranoid and whiner.

Patricio wrote:
The car companies want subscriptions.

I don't know any car company that requires a subscription.

Patricio wrote:
The software companies want subscriptions.

Stop buying Microsoft shit.

Patricio wrote:
The coffee companies want subscriptions.

Nope. All they need is 110vac.

Patricio wrote:
At this rate, Procter & Gamble will partner with Ford so your dashboard can display:

"Your Charmin+ Platinum Ultra account has expired. Wiping functionality unavailable."

And somewhere in Silicon Valley, some morally vacant twenty-eight-year-old in a fleece vest will call this "disruption."

No. It is not disruption.

Correct. It is just your paranoia and whining.

Patricio wrote:
They are renting civilization back to the people who already paid for it. Methinks the public doth protest not nearly enough.

Who is 'they'?
You are not required to rent anything.

Patricio wrote:
No, but your anecdotal story is irrelevant.

Patricio wrote:
This is a phenomenon that is real, and people are experiencing it.

Patricio wrote:
The piece wasn't intended for you, personally, nor was it a 'debate' subject.

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:
No, but your anecdotal story is irrelevant.

Fallacy fallacy. Argument of the Stone fallacy. It is quite relevant. You do not have to buy anything requiring the cloud.

Patricio wrote:
This is a phenomenon that is real, and people are experiencing it.

Not a 'phenomenon'. Go learn w
\hat that word means.
It is your choice, and you are whining about it. Lame.

Patricio wrote:
The piece wasn't intended for you, personally, nor was it a 'debate' subject.

You posted in a public forum. You have only yourself to blame if someone responds to it.

I can see you're a whiner. I can see you're paranoid. No one can help you. You have to dig yourself out these problems yourself.

Patricio wrote:
There was once a time — children, gather close around the cathode-ray tube — when you bought something, and then, brace yourselves, you owned it.

You bought a car, and the car belonged to you. You bought a stereo, and no corporation in Munich or Palo Alto reserved the right to remotely deactivate the bass because your "Premium Sonic Experience Package" had expired at midnight. You bought Microsoft Office once every six years, installed it from a shiny plastic disc, and that was the end of the relationship. No monthly tribute. No digital landlord. No software feudalism.

Now?

Now your refrigerator wants a login.

Your television demands an account.

Your printer behaves like a narcotics addict shaking in an alleyway because it cannot "verify" the cyan cartridge you bought from a non-approved vendor in Des Moines.

Even the automobile — once the roaring symbol of American independence — has become a rolling extortion racket with heated seats locked behind a subscription plan. Heated seats! The damned seats are physically already in the car. You paid for the machinery. You are merely renting permission from a server farm in Stuttgart to warm your own backside.

And this metastasizing lunacy has spread everywhere because corporations discovered the holiest phrase in modern capitalism:

"Recurring revenue."

To the executives, it sounds like angels singing. To the consumer, it sounds like a burglar setting up permanent residency in your wallet.

Streaming services. Cloud storage. Password managers. News sites. Music apps. Navigation apps. Photo editing apps. Antivirus apps. Meditation apps. Water-tracking apps. Somewhere, at this very moment, a venture capitalist is probably trying to invent Subscription Oxygen™ — "for just $14.99 a month, enjoy uninterrupted premium breathing."

And naturally, they all use the same smug language. You are no longer buying products. Oh no. You are entering an "ecosystem." You are "unlocking experiences." You are "joining a community."

Translation: they want an annuity siphoned directly from your checking account until the heat death of the universe.

The old capitalist bargain was straightforward: make a good product, sell it at a fair price, and if people liked it, they'd come back.

That required effort.

This new model requires captivity.

Because Wall Street no longer wants customers. Customers are erratic. Customers make decisions. Customers can leave. What investors want now are hostages — monthly recurring hostages shackled to auto-pay.

And thus every object in your life is slowly being converted into a toll booth.

The car companies want subscriptions.

The software companies want subscriptions.

The coffee companies want subscriptions.

At this rate, Procter & Gamble will partner with Ford so your dashboard can display:

"Your Charmin+ Platinum Ultra account has expired. Wiping functionality unavailable."

And somewhere in Silicon Valley, some morally vacant twenty-eight-year-old in a fleece vest will call this "disruption."

No. It is not disruption.

They are renting civilization back to the people who already paid for it. Methinks the public doth protest not nearly enough.

Patricio wrote:
There was once a time — children, gather close around the cathode-ray tube — when you bought something, and then, brace yourselves, you owned it.

You bought a car, and the car belonged to you. You bought a stereo, and no corporation in Munich or Palo Alto reserved the right to remotely deactivate the bass because your "Premium Sonic Experience Package" had expired at midnight. You bought Microsoft Office once every six years, installed it from a shiny plastic disc, and that was the end of the relationship. No monthly tribute. No digital landlord. No software feudalism.

Now?

Now your refrigerator wants a login.

Your television demands an account.

Your printer behaves like a narcotics addict shaking in an alleyway because it cannot "verify" the cyan cartridge you bought from a non-approved vendor in Des Moines.

Even the automobile — once the roaring symbol of American independence — has become a rolling extortion racket with heated seats locked behind a subscription plan. Heated seats! The damned seats are physically already in the car. You paid for the machinery. You are merely renting permission from a server farm in Stuttgart to warm your own backside.

And this metastasizing lunacy has spread everywhere because corporations discovered the holiest phrase in modern capitalism:

"Recurring revenue."

To the executives, it sounds like angels singing. To the consumer, it sounds like a burglar setting up permanent residency in your wallet.

Streaming services. Cloud storage. Password managers. News sites. Music apps. Navigation apps. Photo editing apps. Antivirus apps. Meditation apps. Water-tracking apps. Somewhere, at this very moment, a venture capitalist is probably trying to invent Subscription Oxygen™ — "for just $14.99 a month, enjoy uninterrupted premium breathing."

And naturally, they all use the same smug language. You are no longer buying products. Oh no. You are entering an "ecosystem." You are "unlocking experiences." You are "joining a community."

Translation: they want an annuity siphoned directly from your checking account until the heat death of the universe.

The old capitalist bargain was straightforward: make a good product, sell it at a fair price, and if people liked it, they'd come back.

That required effort.

This new model requires captivity.

Because Wall Street no longer wants customers. Customers are erratic. Customers make decisions. Customers can leave. What investors want now are hostages — monthly recurring hostages shackled to auto-pay.

And thus every object in your life is slowly being converted into a toll booth.

The car companies want subscriptions.

The software companies want subscriptions.

The coffee companies want subscriptions.

At this rate, Procter & Gamble will partner with Ford so your dashboard can display:

"Your Charmin+ Platinum Ultra account has expired. Wiping functionality unavailable."

And somewhere in Silicon Valley, some morally vacant twenty-eight-year-old in a fleece vest will call this "disruption."

No. It is not disruption.

They are renting civilization back to the people who already paid for it. Methinks the public doth protest not nearly enough.

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote:
There was once a time — children, gather close around the cathode-ray tube — when you bought something, and then, brace yourselves, you owned it.

You bought a car, and the car belonged to you. You bought a stereo, and no corporation in Munich or Palo Alto reserved the right to remotely deactivate the bass because your "Premium Sonic Experience Package" had expired at midnight. You bought Microsoft Office once every six years, installed it from a shiny plastic disc, and that was the end of the relationship. No monthly tribute. No digital landlord. No software feudalism.

Now?

Now your refrigerator wants a login.

Your television demands an account.

Your printer behaves like a narcotics addict shaking in an alleyway because it cannot "verify" the cyan cartridge you bought from a non-approved vendor in Des Moines.

Even the automobile — once the roaring symbol of American independence — has become a rolling extortion racket with heated seats locked behind a subscription plan. Heated seats! The damned seats are physically already in the car. You paid for the machinery. You are merely renting permission from a server farm in Stuttgart to warm your own backside.

And this metastasizing lunacy has spread everywhere because corporations discovered the holiest phrase in modern capitalism:

"Recurring revenue."

To the executives, it sounds like angels singing. To the consumer, it sounds like a burglar setting up permanent residency in your wallet.

Streaming services. Cloud storage. Password managers. News sites. Music apps. Navigation apps. Photo editing apps. Antivirus apps. Meditation apps. Water-tracking apps. Somewhere, at this very moment, a venture capitalist is probably trying to invent Subscription Oxygen™ — "for just $14.99 a month, enjoy uninterrupted premium breathing."

And naturally, they all use the same smug language. You are no longer buying products. Oh no. You are entering an "ecosystem." You are "unlocking experiences." You are "joining a community."

Translation: they want an annuity siphoned directly from your checking account until the heat death of the universe.

The old capitalist bargain was straightforward: make a good product, sell it at a fair price, and if people liked it, they'd come back.

That required effort.

This new model requires captivity.

Because Wall Street no longer wants customers. Customers are erratic. Customers make decisions. Customers can leave. What investors want now are hostages — monthly recurring hostages shackled to auto-pay.

And thus every object in your life is slowly being converted into a toll booth.

The car companies want subscriptions.

The software companies want subscriptions.

The coffee companies want subscriptions.

At this rate, Procter & Gamble will partner with Ford so your dashboard can display:

"Your Charmin+ Platinum Ultra account has expired. Wiping functionality unavailable."

And somewhere in Silicon Valley, some morally vacant twenty-eight-year-old in a fleece vest will call this "disruption."

No. It is not disruption.

They are renting civilization back to the people who already paid for it. Methinks the public doth protest not nearly enough.

Capitalism is pretty bad, right?

sealover wrote:
I finally noticed this thread by Patricio!

Now that the newest New Messiah has flooded the zone on the home page, it becomes more noticeable that there are forums below the top 15 most recently active threads. When nearly every "last post" is by "WorldSaviorJoy", it becomes more noticeable that there are forums lower on the home page with a different name than "WorldSaviorJoy"

It used to be a regular daily thing that at any given time, Into the Night would be the "last post" in at least 12 of the 15 most recently active threads

Patricio wrote:

sealover wrote:
I finally noticed this thread by Patricio!

Now that the newest New Messiah has flooded the zone on the home page, it becomes more noticeable that there are forums below the top 15 most recently active threads. When nearly every "last post" is by "WorldSaviorJoy", it becomes more noticeable that there are forums lower on the home page with a different name than "WorldSaviorJoy"

It used to be a regular daily thing that at any given time, Into the Night would be the "last post" in at least 12 of the 15 most recently active threads

Patricio wrote:

Too bad this website does not have a moderator. But thanks for the heads up, I'll ignore him. It would be nice if the site had a 'like' button, that way you can know if folks are noticing your comments even when they don't feel like responding. Most other sites have it.

Patricio wrote: Too bad this website does not have a moderator.

Patricio wrote: But thanks for the orders, I'll OBEY your commands and ignore him.

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote: Too bad this website does not have a moderator.

This site has a moderator. This site does not have a censor.

Patricio wrote: But thanks for the orders, I'll OBEY your commands and ignore him.

Was there ever any doubt?

Patricio wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote: Too bad this website does not have a moderator.

This site has a moderator. This site does not have a censor.

Who fails to moderate

Patricio wrote: But thanks for the orders, I'll OBEY your commands and ignore him.

Was there ever any doubt?

There is no doubt that you altered my comment, which is against the rules on just about every forum.

I'm okay with truncation as long as what remains doesn't change the context of what is being responded to, but altering another words is what trolls do.

But, I've already proven you are troll.

Patricio wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote: Too bad this website does not have a moderator.

This site has a moderator. This site does not have a censor.

Who fails to moderate

Patricio wrote: But thanks for the orders, I'll OBEY your commands and ignore him.

Was there ever any doubt?

There is no doubt that you altered my comment, which is against the rules on just about every forum.

I'm okay with truncation as long as what remains doesn't change the context of what is being responded to, but altering another words is what trolls do.

But, I've already proven you are troll.

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote: Too bad this website does not have a moderator.

This site has a moderator. This site does not have a censor.

Who fails to moderate

Patricio wrote: But thanks for the orders, I'll OBEY your commands and ignore him.

Was there ever any doubt?

There is no doubt that you altered my comment, which is against the rules on just about every forum.

I'm okay with truncation as long as what remains doesn't change the context of what is being responded to, but altering another words is what trolls do.

But, I've already proven you are troll.

No such rule.
He cannot alter your post.
He can alter a quote, and usually does so to avoid your excess baggage.
Mantra 1a. Lame.
Your whining accomplishes nothing.

Patricio wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote: Too bad this website does not have a moderator.

This site has a moderator. This site does not have a censor.

Who fails to moderate

Patricio wrote: But thanks for the orders, I'll OBEY your commands and ignore him.

Was there ever any doubt?

There is no doubt that you altered my comment, which is against the rules on just about every forum.

I'm okay with truncation as long as what remains doesn't change the context of what is being responded to, but altering another words is what trolls do.

But, I've already proven you are troll.

No such rule.
He cannot alter your post.
He can alter a quote, and usually does so to avoid your excess baggage.
Mantra 1a. Lame.
Your whining accomplishes nothing.

Whatever

Into the Night wrote:
So you just want to whine. I've already told you that whining accomplishes nothing.

Patricio wrote:Whatever keeps your intellectual garbáge afloat.

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote:Whatever keeps your intellectual garbáge afloat.

Have you ever contributed to a forum in a value-added way?

Patricio wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote:Whatever keeps your intellectual garbáge afloat.

Have you ever contributed to a forum in a value-added way?

Have you ever asked someone a loaded question and were dumbfounded when the person you asked exposed you for who you really are, a disingenuous ignoramus?

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote:Whatever keeps your intellectual garbáge afloat.

Have you ever contributed to a forum in a value-added way?

Have you ever asked someone a loaded question and were dumbfounded when the person you asked exposed you for who you really are, a disingenuous ignoramus?

So I take that as a 'no'.

Patricio wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote:Whatever keeps your intellectual garbáge afloat.

Have you ever contributed to a forum in a value-added way?

Have you ever asked someone a loaded question and were dumbfounded when the person you asked exposed you for who you really are, a disingenuous ignoramus?

So I take that as a 'no'.

That would be the disingenuously ignorant interpretation, as buffoonish as it is, noting that said buffoonery is utterly incapable of making an accurate determination of the meaning of 'value-added'.

Patricio wrote:
Would you care to continue twisting my words? You do realize you are fooling no one, right? But, give me your best shot.

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:

Patricio wrote:Whatever keeps your intellectual garbáge afloat.

Have you ever contributed to a forum in a value-added way?

Have you ever asked someone a loaded question and were dumbfounded when the person you asked exposed you for who you really are, a disingenuous ignoramus?

So I take that as a 'no'.

That would be the disingenuously ignorant interpretation, as buffoonish as it is, noting that said buffoonery is utterly incapable of making an accurate determination of the meaning of 'value-added'.

So I take that as a 'no'. You don't have to keep re-iterating yourself. Once is enough.

Patricio wrote:
Would you care to continue twisting my words? You do realize you are fooling no one, right? But, give me your best shot.

Inversion fallacy. You cannot blame your word games on anyone else. Omniscience fallacy. You don't get to speak for everyone else. You only get to speak for you.

Patricio wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:
[quote]Patricio wrote:Whatever keeps your intellectual garbáge afloat.

Have you ever contributed to a forum in a value-added way?

Have you ever asked someone a loaded question and were dumbfounded when the person you asked exposed you for who you really are, a disingenuous ignoramus?

So I take that as a 'no'.

That would be the disingenuously ignorant interpretation, as buffoonish as it is, noting that said buffoonery is utterly incapable of making an accurate determination of the meaning of 'value-added'.

So I take that as a 'no'. You don't have to keep re-iterating yourself. Once is enough.

Patricio wrote:
Would you care to continue twisting my words? You do realize you are fooling no one, right? But, give me your best shot.

Inversion fallacy. You cannot blame your word games on anyone else. Omniscience fallacy. You don't get to speak for everyone else. You only get to speak for you.

Patricio wrote:

Keystone Cop fallacy.

Patricio wrote:
Though you're not a member of the KC, but as a bona fide member of the gang who can't shoot straight, consider joining.

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Patricio wrote:

IBdaMann wrote:
[quote]Patricio wrote:Whatever keeps your intellectual garbáge afloat.

Have you ever contributed to a forum in a value-added way?

Have you ever asked someone a loaded question and were dumbfounded when the person you asked exposed you for who you really are, a disingenuous ignoramus?

So I take that as a 'no'.

That would be the disingenuously ignorant interpretation, as buffoonish as it is, noting that said buffoonery is utterly incapable of making an accurate determination of the meaning of 'value-added'.

So I take that as a 'no'. You don't have to keep re-iterating yourself. Once is enough.

Patricio wrote:
Would you care to continue twisting my words? You do realize you are fooling no one, right? But, give me your best shot.

Inversion fallacy. You cannot blame your word games on anyone else. Omniscience fallacy. You don't get to speak for everyone else. You only get to speak for you.

Patricio wrote:

Keystone Cop fallacy.

YARP. No such fallacy.

Patricio wrote:
Though you're not a member of the KC, but as a bona fide member of the gang who can't shoot straight, consider joining.

Unlike you, I am not afraid of guns, and I am pretty good at it.

Im a BM wrote:
There is no such thing as "YARP".

Im a BM wrote:
Unless it stands for YELLOW AND RED PARROT.

Im a BM wrote:
Because I personally control what ANY term can mean to anyone.

Im a BM wrote:
On the authority of my self evidence omniscience as the King of Science I declare that you shall have no other YARPs before me.

Im a BM wrote:
Unless you are using it as a meaningless buzzword for non science gibber babble, the term YARP has ONE unambiguous definition that does not violate any of the Laws of Thermodenial.

Im a BM wrote:
YARP = Yellow And Red Parrot

Patricio wrote:
There was once a time — children, gather close around the cathode-ray tube — when you bought something, and then, brace yourselves, you owned it.

You bought a car, and the car belonged to you. You bought a stereo, and no corporation in Munich or Palo Alto reserved the right to remotely deactivate the bass because your "Premium Sonic Experience Package" had expired at midnight. You bought Microsoft Office once every six years, installed it from a shiny plastic disc, and that was the end of the relationship. No monthly tribute. No digital landlord. No software feudalism.

Now?

Now your refrigerator wants a login.

Your television demands an account.

Your printer behaves like a narcotics addict shaking in an alleyway because it cannot "verify" the cyan cartridge you bought from a non-approved vendor in Des Moines.

Even the automobile — once the roaring symbol of American independence — has become a rolling extortion racket with heated seats locked behind a subscription plan. Heated seats! The damned seats are physically already in the car. You paid for the machinery. You are merely renting permission from a server farm in Stuttgart to warm your own backside.

And this metastasizing lunacy has spread everywhere because corporations discovered the holiest phrase in modern capitalism:

"Recurring revenue."

To the executives, it sounds like angels singing. To the consumer, it sounds like a burglar setting up permanent residency in your wallet.

Streaming services. Cloud storage. Password managers. News sites. Music apps. Navigation apps. Photo editing apps. Antivirus apps. Meditation apps. Water-tracking apps. Somewhere, at this very moment, a venture capitalist is probably trying to invent Subscription Oxygen™ — "for just $14.99 a month, enjoy uninterrupted premium breathing."

And naturally, they all use the same smug language. You are no longer buying products. Oh no. You are entering an "ecosystem." You are "unlocking experiences." You are "joining a community."

Translation: they want an annuity siphoned directly from your checking account until the heat death of the universe.

The old capitalist bargain was straightforward: make a good product, sell it at a fair price, and if people liked it, they'd come back.

That required effort.

This new model requires captivity.

Because Wall Street no longer wants customers. Customers are erratic. Customers make decisions. Customers can leave. What investors want now are hostages — monthly recurring hostages shackled to auto-pay.

And thus every object in your life is slowly being converted into a toll booth.

The car companies want subscriptions.

The software companies want subscriptions.

The coffee companies want subscriptions.

At this rate, Procter & Gamble will partner with Ford so your dashboard can display:

"Your Charmin+ Platinum Ultra account has expired. Wiping functionality unavailable."

And somewhere in Silicon Valley, some morally vacant twenty-eight-year-old in a fleece vest will call this "disruption."

No. It is not disruption.

They are renting civilization back to the people who already paid for it. Methinks the public doth protest not nearly enough.

Im a BM wrote:
I remember when the whole family was gathered to watch black and white TV.

There were only THREE major networks.

And ALL THREE of them agreed on the basic facts of news events.

News media was not partisan. Everyone had a common set of facts to use.

So, Patricio, I get the impression that you are accustomed scientifically illiterate trolls.

But have you ever seen trolls like THESE ones before?

The trolls I saw at other websites had a much more sophisticated approach.

They even had "papers" to cite to support their distortions.

The trolls here expect you to respect their self evident omniscience as the only citable source of information.

You never answered one of my very first questions.

HOW did you find this website?

I thought that Google searches stopped displaying this website more than two years ago.

Other than all the new versions of the New Messiah, you are the ONLY new member to post more than once in more than two years.

And I suspect you already decided that it is a waste of time to continue.

But if you only post one more time to say one more thing...

HOW did you discover the existence of climate-debate.com?

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
I remember when the whole family was gathered to watch black and white TV.

There were only THREE major networks.

And ALL THREE of them agreed on the basic facts of news events.

News media was not partisan. Everyone had a common set of facts to use.

So, Patricio, I get the impression that you are accustomed scientifically illiterate trolls.

But have you ever seen trolls like THESE ones before?

The trolls I saw at other websites had a much more sophisticated approach.

They even had "papers" to cite to support their distortions.

The trolls here expect you to respect their self evident omniscience as the only citable source of information.

You never answered one of my very first questions.

HOW did you find this website?

I thought that Google searches stopped displaying this website more than two years ago.

Other than all the new versions of the New Messiah, you are the ONLY new member to post more than once in more than two years.

And I suspect you already decided that it is a waste of time to continue.

But if you only post one more time to say one more thing...

HOW did you discover the existence of climate-debate.com?

How DID you discover it, Robert?

You are describing yourself again.

Im a BM wrote:

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
I remember when the whole family was gathered to watch black and white TV.

There were only THREE major networks.

And ALL THREE of them agreed on the basic facts of news events.

News media was not partisan. Everyone had a common set of facts to use.

So, Patricio, I get the impression that you are accustomed scientifically illiterate trolls.

But have you ever seen trolls like THESE ones before?

The trolls I saw at other websites had a much more sophisticated approach.

They even had "papers" to cite to support their distortions.

The trolls here expect you to respect their self evident omniscience as the only citable source of information.

You never answered one of my very first questions.

HOW did you find this website?

I thought that Google searches stopped displaying this website more than two years ago.

Other than all the new versions of the New Messiah, you are the ONLY new member to post more than once in more than two years.

And I suspect you already decided that it is a waste of time to continue.

But if you only post one more time to say one more thing...

HOW did you discover the existence of climate-debate.com?

How DID you discover it, Robert?

You are describing yourself again.

RQAA. BS. FU. Phallus fallacy, you tiny, limp, troll prick.

Im a BM wrote:

Patricio wrote:
There was once a time — children, gather close around the cathode-ray tube — when you bought something, and then, brace yourselves, you owned it.

You bought a car, and the car belonged to you. You bought a stereo, and no corporation in Munich or Palo Alto reserved the right to remotely deactivate the bass because your "Premium Sonic Experience Package" had expired at midnight. You bought Microsoft Office once every six years, installed it from a shiny plastic disc, and that was the end of the relationship. No monthly tribute. No digital landlord. No software feudalism.

Now?

Now your refrigerator wants a login.

Your television demands an account.

Your printer behaves like a narcotics addict shaking in an alleyway because it cannot "verify" the cyan cartridge you bought from a non-approved vendor in Des Moines.

Even the automobile — once the roaring symbol of American independence — has become a rolling extortion racket with heated seats locked behind a subscription plan. Heated seats! The damned seats are physically already in the car. You paid for the machinery. You are merely renting permission from a server farm in Stuttgart to warm your own backside.

And this metastasizing lunacy has spread everywhere because corporations discovered the holiest phrase in modern capitalism:

"Recurring revenue."

To the executives, it sounds like angels singing. To the consumer, it sounds like a burglar setting up permanent residency in your wallet.

Streaming services. Cloud storage. Password managers. News sites. Music apps. Navigation apps. Photo editing apps. Antivirus apps. Meditation apps. Water-tracking apps. Somewhere, at this very moment, a venture capitalist is probably trying to invent Subscription Oxygen™ — "for just $14.99 a month, enjoy uninterrupted premium breathing."

And naturally, they all use the same smug language. You are no longer buying products. Oh no. You are entering an "ecosystem." You are "unlocking experiences." You are "joining a community."

Translation: they want an annuity siphoned directly from your checking account until the heat death of the universe.

The old capitalist bargain was straightforward: make a good product, sell it at a fair price, and if people liked it, they'd come back.

That required effort.

This new model requires captivity.

Because Wall Street no longer wants customers. Customers are erratic. Customers make decisions. Customers can leave. What investors want now are hostages — monthly recurring hostages shackled to auto-pay.

And thus every object in your life is slowly being converted into a toll booth.

The car companies want subscriptions.

The software companies want subscriptions.

The coffee companies want subscriptions.

At this rate, Procter & Gamble will partner with Ford so your dashboard can display:

"Your Charmin+ Platinum Ultra account has expired. Wiping functionality unavailable."

And somewhere in Silicon Valley, some morally vacant twenty-eight-year-old in a fleece vest will call this "disruption."

No. It is not disruption.

They are renting civilization back to the people who already paid for it. Methinks the public doth protest not nearly enough.

I remember when the whole family was gathered to watch black and white TV.

There were only THREE major networks.

And ALL THREE of them agreed on the basic facts of news events.

News media was not partisan. Everyone had a common set of facts to use.

So, Patricio, I get the impression that you are accustomed scientifically illiterate trolls.

But have you ever seen trolls like THESE ones before?

The trolls I saw at other websites had a much more sophisticated approach.

They even had "papers" to cite to support their distortions.

The trolls here expect you to respect their self evident omniscience as the only citable source of information.

You never answered one of my very first questions.

HOW did you find this website?

I thought that Google searches stopped displaying this website more than two years ago.

Other than all the new versions of the New Messiah, you are the ONLY new member to post more than once in more than two years.

And I suspect you already decided that it is a waste of time to continue.

But if you only post one more time to say one more thing...

HOW did you discover the existence of climate-debate.com?

Patricio wrote:

Im a BM wrote:

Patricio wrote:
There was once a time — children, gather close around the cathode-ray tube — when you bought something, and then, brace yourselves, you owned it.

You bought a car, and the car belonged to you. You bought a stereo, and no corporation in Munich or Palo Alto reserved the right to remotely deactivate the bass because your "Premium Sonic Experience Package" had expired at midnight. You bought Microsoft Office once every six years, installed it from a shiny plastic disc, and that was the end of the relationship. No monthly tribute. No digital landlord. No software feudalism.

Now?

Now your refrigerator wants a login.

Your television demands an account.

Your printer behaves like a narcotics addict shaking in an alleyway because it cannot "verify" the cyan cartridge you bought from a non-approved vendor in Des Moines.

Even the automobile — once the roaring symbol of American independence — has become a rolling extortion racket with heated seats locked behind a subscription plan. Heated seats! The damned seats are physically already in the car. You paid for the machinery. You are merely renting permission from a server farm in Stuttgart to warm your own backside.

And this metastasizing lunacy has spread everywhere because corporations discovered the holiest phrase in modern capitalism:

"Recurring revenue."

To the executives, it sounds like angels singing. To the consumer, it sounds like a burglar setting up permanent residency in your wallet.

Streaming services. Cloud storage. Password managers. News sites. Music apps. Navigation apps. Photo editing apps. Antivirus apps. Meditation apps. Water-tracking apps. Somewhere, at this very moment, a venture capitalist is probably trying to invent Subscription Oxygen™ — "for just $14.99 a month, enjoy uninterrupted premium breathing."

And naturally, they all use the same smug language. You are no longer buying products. Oh no. You are entering an "ecosystem." You are "unlocking experiences." You are "joining a community."

Translation: they want an annuity siphoned directly from your checking account until the heat death of the universe.

The old capitalist bargain was straightforward: make a good product, sell it at a fair price, and if people liked it, they'd come back.

That required effort.

This new model requires captivity.

Because Wall Street no longer wants customers. Customers are erratic. Customers make decisions. Customers can leave. What investors want now are hostages — monthly recurring hostages shackled to auto-pay.

And thus every object in your life is slowly being converted into a toll booth.

The car companies want subscriptions.

The software companies want subscriptions.

The coffee companies want subscriptions.

At this rate, Procter & Gamble will partner with Ford so your dashboard can display:

"Your Charmin+ Platinum Ultra account has expired. Wiping functionality unavailable."

And somewhere in Silicon Valley, some morally vacant twenty-eight-year-old in a fleece vest will call this "disruption."

No. It is not disruption.

They are renting civilization back to the people who already paid for it. Methinks the public doth protest not nearly enough.

I remember when the whole family was gathered to watch black and white TV.

There were only THREE major networks.

And ALL THREE of them agreed on the basic facts of news events.

News media was not partisan. Everyone had a common set of facts to use.

So, Patricio, I get the impression that you are accustomed scientifically illiterate trolls.

But have you ever seen trolls like THESE ones before?

The trolls I saw at other websites had a much more sophisticated approach.

They even had "papers" to cite to support their distortions.

The trolls here expect you to respect their self evident omniscience as the only citable source of information.

You never answered one of my very first questions.

HOW did you find this website?

I thought that Google searches stopped displaying this website more than two years ago.

Other than all the new versions of the New Messiah, you are the ONLY new member to post more than once in more than two years.

And I suspect you already decided that it is a waste of time to continue.

But if you only post one more time to say one more thing...

HOW did you discover the existence of climate-debate.com?

Patricio wrote:

How did I find this place? I'd grown frustrated with the Science board over at politicalforum.com and went looking for something more focused — searched Google for something like "climate science forum" and started scrolling. Most of the results were formal structured debate setups, which didn't appeal to me. Climate-debate.com was further down the list, and it looked more like what I wanted.

What I've since gathered, though, is that this place is essentially a ghost town. Two decent members as far as I can tell — you and Sealover. That's a thin board. You can read a forum's pulse just by looking at OP dates on the thread list, and here they're old — which says everything about the activity level. It's sad, really, given the subject matter actually warrants serious discussion.

I'll keep lurking. I'll post when something compels me — either a thread worth responding to or a topic I want to open myself. But with only two people worth engaging, the incentive is limited.

Im a BM wrote:
I am delighted that you are still here!

Im a BM wrote:
I must confess to a major troll move of my own.

I joined as "sealover" more than a year before I posted anything.

You could say I was a "lurker" in those days.

I had already seen this website more than once in the years before that.

But the day I joined, I looked through the lists of threads, hoping to find the best forum to discuss applied biogeochemistry. I found very few threads that were even related to climate. I noticed the same two names showing up everywhere, suggesting a very small active membership. The quality of their posts convinced me not to follow through with my membership to post. At that point, I was like more than half the 1746 members of this website who have ZERO posts to their name.

A year later, after seeing once again how prominently Google displayed this website as a place where people might seek to read some kind of rational discussion about climate, I decided to go ahead and post.

"sealover" just wanted to share short science essays and answer questions related to my specialty as a biogeochemist.

Im a BM wrote:
"sealover" was being baited to rage by relentless troll heckling, and was embarrassing himself by responding in kind.

"Im a BM" was created to interact directly with the trolls, and make it possible for someone looking up "sealover" posts to avoid any involving trolls instead of science. "Im a BM" was Mr. Hyde for the good Dr. Jeckyl "sealover" PhD.

The trolls are quite correct that sealover has a "sock". But they have accused several new members, including yourself, of being my "sock". ITN seems to stick to his guns on any assertion he makes, no matter how outrageous, and continues to insist that you are all my "socks".

Im a BM wrote:
Starting about a year ago, actual viewership at this website increased by roughly an order of magnitude, and reached a frenzy around the 4th of July. My biogeochemistry threads were all getting hundreds of "views" a day.

Im a BM wrote:
So, the fact that Google showed you this website at all, even if far down the list, is impressive. It had gotten to the point that only the most limited keyword combinations, including "climate-debate" could get Google to display this website anywhere in the first few pages of results.

If that means that more will join as you have, Patricio, I have a word of caution for them. Look but don't touch.

I was going to invite other scientists to join the discussion here after I had set up enough essays as topics to view. I had a few friends and colleagues take a peek before I was going to try to encourage biogeochemistry professors to tell their students to join climate-debate.com The revulsion was universal. By the time IBdaMann had posted the names of my family members, the address of our apartment, phone number, maps and photos of where we lived... There was NO WAY I was going to encourage anyone else to join this website.

Im a BM wrote:
I thought that perhaps "doxing" was a genuine red line for Branner, the website administrator. Even Elon Musk draws the line at "doxing" as a limit to free speech absolutism. Not Branner. He took down the particularly bad doxing posts by IBdaMann, but did not ban his disgusting troll ass from the website.

Into the Night wrote:

Im a BM wrote:
I am delighted that you are still here!

Of course you're still here.

Im a BM wrote:
I must confess to a major troll move of my own.

I joined as "sealover" more than a year before I posted anything.

You could say I was a "lurker" in those days.

I had already seen this website more than once in the years before that.

But the day I joined, I looked through the lists of threads, hoping to find the best forum to discuss applied biogeochemistry. I found very few threads that were even related to climate. I noticed the same two names showing up everywhere, suggesting a very small active membership. The quality of their posts convinced me not to follow through with my membership to post. At that point, I was like more than half the 1746 members of this website who have ZERO posts to their name.

A year later, after seeing once again how prominently Google displayed this website as a place where people might seek to read some kind of rational discussion about climate, I decided to go ahead and post.

"sealover" just wanted to share short science essays and answer questions related to my specialty as a biogeochemist.

You deny science.
Science isn't an essay.
There is no such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.

Im a BM wrote:
"sealover" was being baited to rage by relentless troll heckling, and was embarrassing himself by responding in kind.

"Im a BM" was created to interact directly with the trolls, and make it possible for someone looking up "sealover" posts to avoid any involving trolls instead of science. "Im a BM" was Mr. Hyde for the good Dr. Jeckyl "sealover" PhD.

The trolls are quite correct that sealover has a "sock". But they have accused several new members, including yourself, of being my "sock". ITN seems to stick to his guns on any assertion he makes, no matter how outrageous, and continues to insist that you are all my "socks".

Seems you like socks. Your own vanity compels you to create them.

Im a BM wrote:
Starting about a year ago, actual viewership at this website increased by roughly an order of magnitude, and reached a frenzy around the 4th of July. My biogeochemistry threads were all getting hundreds of "views" a day.

Viewing your own threads is meaningless. Again, your own vanity.

Im a BM wrote:
So, the fact that Google showed you this website at all, even if far down the list, is impressive. It had gotten to the point that only the most limited keyword combinations, including "climate-debate" could get Google to display this website anywhere in the first few pages of results.

If that means that more will join as you have, Patricio, I have a word of caution for them. Look but don't touch.

I was going to invite other scientists to join the discussion here after I had set up enough essays as topics to view. I had a few friends and colleagues take a peek before I was going to try to encourage biogeochemistry professors to tell their students to join climate-debate.com The revulsion was universal. By the time IBdaMann had posted the names of my family members, the address of our apartment, phone number, maps and photos of where we lived... There was NO WAY I was going to encourage anyone else to join this website.

Going to create more socks, then?
There is no such thing as 'biogeochemistry'.

Im a BM wrote:
I thought that perhaps "doxing" was a genuine red line for Branner, the website administrator. Even Elon Musk draws the line at "doxing" as a limit to free speech absolutism. Not Branner. He took down the particularly bad doxing posts by IBdaMann, but did not ban his disgusting troll ass from the website.

You doxed yourself, Robert.